Vercel Gave Up On Edge
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- čas přidán 19. 04. 2024
- Vercel is no longer recommending shipping your Next apps to edge, and they are no longer doing it themselves.
Fascinating.
Y'all are gonna LOVE this one 🙃
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S/O Ph4se0n3 for the awesome edit 🙏 - Věda a technologie
Theo pushed for edge so hard. Remember this kids
*shilled for
grain of salt
He also hopped off it and said so in this video. What's your point? How many people who watch Theo even are going to adopt into Edge anyways? It's okay to try things out.
@@LeonBlade Try things out is this: "Let me try this, then I'll come back to you with some results, but be aware, this is just a try/error thing. Don't do it at home.". Another thing is being paid/sponsored to advocate, to stand up for something and then, later, come back here and say "Oh, I know why it doesn't work. Of course, here is the reason on this video". There's no problem in being wrong. First words of his video should be: "I was wrong. I am sorry. Now I will tell you why I was wrong and now I'm going to try to give you some advice and, hopefully, it can help you out". And that is not a subtle thing..
The edging stream where Theo took a break to blow.
my main goal is to explode
i edged to this video
what is the edge
You heard it here first, vercel is now in it's goon phase.
lmfaoooooooooooooooo
real
😂😂
That's VC funding for ya
All this time and effort reinventing client-server, ajax, and cdns. This is a 25 year old workflow.
Old is the new new. 🤣😂🤣😂
My thoughts exactly. I haven't changed much about what i've been doing for the last two decades and I've been fine.
Agreed, I'm sitting here and scratching my head thinking "is HTML streaming something special or is just ajax?" 😂
i couldn't stop thinking about framesets with the PPR-Thing and how the world looked like if we just made them better and useable.
still waiting for when we stop using js on the server... 5-10 more years?
Never stop edging
My man out here rocking that 80's CIA agent undercover as a cocaine runner for the Colombians look, and pulling it the fuck off.
Prequel movie to Monk featuring a young Stottlemeyer
Too prim for that. More Studio 56 if you ask me
Bro,its Colombians, from Colombia, not like the film studio. 😁
@@SlavojZizekEspanol-libros FIXED AND PUSHED TO MAIN.
I love how Vercel always walk back whatever paradigm they pushed a year ago, just before announcing a brand new rendering paradigm that's definitely manna from heaven, this time!
Yeah, it's great that they try out new things, but really if you are building something on a larger scale you better not use something that didn't have the test of time yet. Being an early adopter can give a good feeling, but in this industry many times you might end up with your tail between your legs. Let others find out the blockers for a brand new framework/package/service, and if the hype still doesn't die down after 3 or 4 years you can pretty safely pick it up. Also there's this bias about new technologies - for one technology that stood the test of time ten has been buried in the graveyard. We might not hear about these technologies, only about the success of the single one and assume that everything that is hyped will be a massive success and is ready to be used.
@@ParaNormanable There's exactly 0 wrong with edge. There's a lot wrong with 'trivial edge without data replication'. Yes, it is unsuitable for cluetards or people trying to do trivial things simply. Yes, you're going to have to write your own code as opposed to glorified declarative specification of pre-defined behaviours provided by some behemoth framework, and you're going to need clue. The big problem realistically is that it is largely JS-centric.
Welcome to VC funding
I’m gonna wait another five years and then see again if frontend has agreed with each other
At that point they'll have found another thing to disagree on, so you'll be waiting forever 😅.
in my 10 yrs of experience, Frontend never agrees on anything
We are currently working on containerized micro frontends, where your site will be split up into different browser sections and each new section is a randomly generated javascript framework written by AI. On each request you will have a new JS framework running your things. We think it's the most JS-like thing ever and we think it will take over the web!
Love the content but seeing your face making some weird expression on the cover of every single video just makes it so hard to want to click on it.
you should blame the viewers instead for not clicking on vids without silly thumbnails and making this a necessity
Unfortunately, if creators don't use thumbnails like this, they don't get the same reach. It's stupid (imo) but necessary.
Yeah we just need the face not the bad expressions 😂
seeing such crybabies in comment section of every single video just makes me 🤢
I just came here to say that but damn man you took word out my mouth
Edge is not in thousands of locations. The largest edge network is cloudflare which is in around 300+ locations
Cloudflare is the master of edging
@@DylanJava your mom taught you well, bravo
Edge is literally in the thousands of locations when you're talking about IoT.
@@marcuss.abildskov7175 but we are not talking about IoT. We are talking about vercel
I thought this was about Edge, the browser.
if only
So did I
??? You mean chrome?
Edge is not the browser???
I thought this was about Edge, the wrestler
Australia mentioned let’s go
This field is humbling. Every now and then we have to appreciate the fact that we didn't know and accept reality.
not really, only idiots fell for edge shilling
Vercel made money and returned to node 😂😂
@@developer217 even if that is true, vercel was also responsible for testing that technology and others in huge production environments, and thanks to it we now have an actual valid and tested conclusion of what is better, therefore we had progress (thanks to vercel)
@@upsxace You're right
Na, old folk who know how things work knew it was just fad hype like most of the web technologies turn out to be.
The old 'let's do this differently because it's cool' usually turns out to just be a VC cash grab. Don't fall for it again.
The edge thing will only work for companies like Cloudflare and Fastly that owns their own infrastructure and can offer a much cheaper pricing by compacting the edge v8 runtimes and get CPU-time pricing instead of runtime pricing. It won't scale for Vercel which is just running AWS Lambda and have the same cost model as original nodejs based runtime.
Vercel isn't just running AWS Lambda. They only do that for their Serverless offering. For the Edge offering they have their own Edge Runtime which is a set of APIs that interface with V8 isolates (likely run on Cloudflare Workers).
It amazes to me that we are adding this amount of complexity to save 200-300ms, many of these ideas are the opposite of good engineering.
I totally agree.
Over-engineering to save like 200ms or 20kb.
This is on each request, when hitting the like btn and what not. For most apps absolutely unnecessary.
Indeed, web technology has never been easier, and it's intrinsically Client/Server based, meaning it works on the edge by default. Theo seems to constantly bash client rendering as if it's a bad thing. Speed is not a good reason for SSR, the only thing I would say it potentially gains is SEO. But saying that any sites I've done client side SPA seem to index fine on all major search engines, so not even sure SEO is a good reason. ps. Also even that 200-300ms delay can be reduced if it's just for First Contentful Paint (FCP) reasons, just bootstrap the HTML with some inline styled content, very similar to how mobile apps have a splash screen.
If you're trying to hit SLAs then 200ms is a godsend
@@dinoabdurahmanovic 200ms is huge. If you've never worked on a large consumer-facing site you won't know this, but adding 200ms to a page load is going to lose you a massive amount of traffic, whether it's from SERPs or PPC. In the PPC case, this can cost you on the order of thousands of dollars every hour (obviously scales with PPC budget).
I'm glad I didn't jump on this "edge" or even "serverless" nonsense because of hype. I mean I also didn't need it on apps that I've worked on.
I invested my time getting to know Linux more and understanding how to deploy things on a VPS/VM on my own without these managed services and I can say that I learned a ton. Yeah it's great to know these managed services, but I think knowing the barebones is a more valuable skill long term.
I REALLY WANTED TO EDGE WITH THIS ONE😥😥😥🔥🔥🔥🗣🗣🗣
edging to this rn
Not me rewriting my NextAuth jwt code because I am forced by the library to make it compatible with Edge(even though i don't use it), just so Vercel gives up on Edge today 😂
Unlucky timing, but at least I learned something new i guess
Theres potential for a meme here, with the thumbnail faces and edging and all that
Just want to say I had a wrong idea about the quality of your content for some reason. I’m glad to be wrong. Thanks for sharing this, it was very informative
As someone who really leveled up during this whole edge craze its been an absolute blast nerding out on the edge runtimes, how theyre built, performance, quirks and drawbacks and building around them. Its nice to see we arent just doing things to do them on edge anymore and are taking a measured approach to building with them and finding good improvements.
What edge runtimes? The only one that's worth looking into is the one Cloudflare Workers is using.
@@marcuss.abildskov7175 Sure for production stuff workers are awesome, I am still allowed to love the rust forks of it and other specialty stuff for AWS etc.
i dont care how vercel feels, im going to keep on edging
Good on Vercel for admitting something didn't work out and pivoting.
More like investors are knocking, Vercel is trying to reduce their server expenditure. Shutting down the least used, and a lot expensive product to begin with.
next month "NEXTJS gave up on server components". the javascript ecosystem is a joke
Nahh, that won't happen because they need to sell us the server side rendering face-green-smiling
server rendering is amazing, chill with the nonsense hate
How is edge thing JS ecosystem?
I saw this with no context thinking we were talking about Microsoft Edge for like the first minute or so
First time discovering this channel and I've always liked NextJs
Man, that's why I love your videos. Yeah, you talked about news but you always have a deep understanding on the subjects and you bring us to a deep dive in it. I can't say how much I learned just watching your videos ! Amazing job, mate ;)
a perfect example of not having FOMO about new tech stuff - it will die sooner than you'll have a chance to test it out :)
The reality is that most of the apps you will work on are made With React 16-17 and Redux with (redux-saga/redux-thunks/graphql), its what its
crab is for Rust
oh, I thought it was a disease they caught
Great video. Thanks for the heads up I’m in the middle of launching an app with “edge” built in functionality may have to do some refactoring 🤔
You had me at ”This isn’t clickbait”
I had never considered building my side projects on any of these edge solutions because of the database rtt problem. Lately I've been building an app using turso as the database and it occurs to me that turso's embedded replicas perfectly solve that problem.
I knew this would happen and when I saw this title I shouted "Called it!" out loud
with partial pre rendering, can you revalidate (ISR) the data for the static parts of the page that lives on the edge?
Finally! Considering returning to next
Vercel’s done with edging?
We can still carry on edging though
what is that canvas/drawing tool?
working fine in my Microsoft edge..
I think I'm going to just stick with doing things the "old fashioned" way. Vite to build my frontend, deployed on CDN for quick loading to users browsers. Keep it a SPA, and stream in data over websockets so we get first bytes quickly, and extra data gets cached into localstorage. Can make this super snappy and also support offline usage (happens more often than people realize, spotty cell coverage, airplanes, etc). The recent allergic reaction to running JS on client computers is crazy to me. Sure, we can massively reduce the bloat (Vite with Svelte or similar can solve that largely), but just because some folks ship too much JS doesn't mean we have to go crazy and compute everything on the server-side like it's 1999 and we are still writing PHP. It seems too convenient to me that all these companies are pushing us to move compute back to servers, when that means paying them more per month! Conflict of interest. So I don't trust anything Vercel says, or any of these other companies that are doing similar (Deno Deploy, etc).
Code split + CDN, it would get super snappy app, this idea of rendering SSR looks to me like a regretion, I came from Rails and the main point for me to learn React was to reduce the computing load from the server to the client, its crazy to me to ask to go back to SSR, especially now that client devices are faster, why would anyone compute rendering stuff in the server lol, also you lose the offline support.
What's the drawing app you use?
"None of these are running node"
AWS: Hold my lambdas
EdgingTime
PERFECT Name
what does this change in practice? will we still be able to deploy to cloudflare pages? or this another way of vendor lock
I only used edge so I can deploy somewhere which is not Vercel and since I had domain already on cloudflare...
When will someone tell Theo that Remix has had the ability to do all of these things since day 1 😭😭😭😭😭
What is the diagram software being used?
"if u don't give me a better name you're stupid" -- dawg chill out lmao
Yeah, Theo's streams are toxic af
That's why people seem to like ThePrimeagen more. He sounds a lot more informative as opposed to Theo who sounds a lot more authorative. Although both of them share useful information. ThePrimeagen is obviously the better human being though.
This video really took the edge off.
thank you
Guess they have been "Edge" ing for a while. only to never see the "climax" of their work.
I didn’t quite understood, could you show us how you edge?
At this point Next js has became the religious cult that everyone hates haha
This really is the year of serverlessness
would have really appreciated a link in the description to the tweet in question
Haha classic, if you use Vercel (and therefore NextJS) for an app that needs to live for several years, if you want to maintain and keep it current, you will have to rewrite it 10x over (at least) to accommodate all their endless experiments and paradigm shifts which have no real benefit to your business and all aimed to lock you deeper into their ecosystem. All the freebies and templates and silver-platter starter projects are just bait for their crap and they can't even keep those up to date with the pace of their changes.
They're not deprecating anything?
I never understand these sorts of takes, do you think other ecosystems have kind of “stung” us into always feeling like we need the latest version of everything? It’s perfectly fine to keep using old Vercel APIs if you dont have resources to rewrite your stuff all the time.
Normally people would praise a framework that manages to simultaneously push the boundaries of performance and maintain backwards compatibility.
What is this mindless hate? This comment have nothing to do
@@Blu3yo They probably don't write any code, they just write CZcams comments
How much would it cost to run an express app on Vercel as non-edge? I looked at their plans and they cost a fortune.
why they dont use bun for their backend?
What does SF pilled mean?
How long till they update middleware’s so they can run on node runtime?
Post the link to what you're reading in the description please :/
edging is old fashion, everyone is gooning rn
Isn’t that partial pre-rendering strategy the same as Astro’s islands? Astro does not ship js to the browser by default, if one wants to add interactive, one creates “islands” of interactivity and that is the only js shipped.
Yeah, Astro's approach is really suited to the vast majority of websites out there. You can then pick making your interactivity client-rendered or SSR. Then if SSR, using a node server or edge deployment. Each is an architectural decision to be made depending on the website. Going so hard on edge was always a curious choice.
Wait... what? Seriously? I'm just learning edge. wt... dude! Okay, gonna listen to the video now....
At first I thought the Edge browser, then I thought CDN. Never heard of the Edge runtime before.
vercel should edge more
vercel pivoting to gooning
Please link to original articles and tweets in the description.
edge runtime == v8 isolate
Curious, what app or website was used to make the illustration?
Xcalidraw
Excalidraw
I think edge runtime is stupid, you should call it edging time
another day, another switch in js
Just write your own js runtime
@@HUEHUEUHEPony i am that htmx guy :)
PPR solves an already solved issue. You just need to accept that not everything needs to be put inside react. Why not serve the static part of the site directly, use react for the main content stuff and use some other thing to glue them together? Why must everything live inside the react monolith?
where is the tweet link?
does someone have a demo app for ppr?
sir theo can you make a video for honojs and elysiajs
Name for the edge runtime? - Edge Runtime
I am on the edge with Vercel.
jk, love them!
The Crab is Rust! I'm sure! It their logo :)
They abandoned their child
what if instead of using NodeJS you're just writing your website in a language that compiles it into an efficient binary that doesn't need a complex runtime?
I also wonder what cratb 🦀 could be ? 🤔
I thought this was somehow about the Microsoft Edge Browser xD
1:52 when I saw Edge with capital E in the title, I thought it was about the browser.
Isn't this just the same as astro or solid island architecture but having to tune config files to play nicely with vercel? And along the same lines. Wouldn't Qwik's resumability just be an inherently better and less copy-able "hydration" than this partial prerendering?
I wouldn't claim to be super knowledgeable on all these, so I'd like criticism/support on this topic, but it just seems to me that astro/solid is already leaps ahead of next with qwik being in another lane that has potential to be bounds ahead of all the others.
SPA + code splitting = done ... no need for complex infrastructure
When you are working a global scale that doesn't make sense anymore.
Your SPA still needs to fetch the data from a server.
Will that still SEO-friendly?
@@hamza_dev Your app in SSR also needs the client to make a request to the server far away from the client and I do hope its close to the database otherwise it will be super slow
@@masadamsahid Most apps don't need to be after you pass the login page and yes most of the crawler can handle SPA nowdays this is not a really good reason to use SSR.
Called it from the outset. All of the edge stuff is a cancerous outgrowth of the microservices hype era.
The fastest experience for users will always be a properly configured and optimized majestic monolith (or regionalized set) with all resources necessary to compute a response in one place, and a CDN to serve pre-rendered sections and their static assets.
The fact that anyone thought it was a good idea to spin up an entire virtual machine and init relevant JS libraries to serve a request (aka cold start) is beyond me.
People forget that the V8 engine powering node may start slower, but that's only because it optimizes code more (and better) which makes it more performant over time (and use less memory!) than JSC and other Edge runtimes.
I still dont understand how far people went in this trip, now they say we learn something new, well everyone who knows basic infra already knew it would not work, you don't need to spend millions into something a lot of people knew it would fail. monoliths are easier to deal with and most of the time faster and cost efficient, but some frontend-only devs want to move React to the server so they can work in backend, but while they do it, they recreate the wheel multiple times creating their own hell
Nice haircut! 👍
After so much complexity and so many bugs... No wonder why
Doesn’t the quik framework stream everything, literally.
So should we switch to chrome or Firefox 😂
so we can make nextjs middleware not-trash now, right? "sorry you cant use any part of the node library in middleware because one day you might want to host on vercel and use edge" has to be among the worst parts of next.
Also worth noting; aws is already working on solving the cold start problem with their own runtime. so that part of the problem will go away without vercel having to invest in doing it themselves.
For those in the comments: the context which allows this to exist, already existed. They just change its behavior a little bit and save quite an amount of time, 300ms is a tangible amount. Up to 50% faster responses, if what they said is true.
so nothing changes for next.js devs?
Is Vercel still pushing the jamstack architecture or have they abandoned that too?
anyone know what “SF Pilled” means?
Next "NEXTJS gave up on server components", back to render the UI at our super powerful smartphones !
Nahh, that won't happen because they need to sell us the server side rendering
100% true
crab = Rust
I might keep edging without vercel
I thought it was something related to the browser...
Oh, Sorry, I kinda thought this was about browser compatibility issues.