Feminism, Power, And The Role Of Women In The Church (feat. Meagan Kohler)
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- čas přidán 26. 03. 2024
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Like the rest of Western society, Meagan Kohler highlights how many see the role of women in the Church through a prism of power (Critical Theory). But the numbers supporting these views may be smaller than you think.
On a recent Relief Society broadcast, Sister J. Annette Dennis stated, "The adversary wants us to focus our attention on what we haven't been given and blind us to all that we have been given." She also said, "There is no other religious organization in the world that I know of that has so boldly given power and authority to women." Needless to say, this caused quite a stir among those who, as stated above, see the Church through a prism of power and a feminist worldview.
Meagan's Article in Deseret News - www.deseret.com/opinion/2024/...
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We go to church to worship God not to raise our status in the eyes of the world and gain power.
Agreed. I recently learned that is a form of priestcraft.
Amen!
Men in the church have no power, they have responsibilities, God will hold them accountable for what they do will this responsibility.
AMEN!
I really wish more in our church understood this concept. The priesthood isn't a "powerful" thing although within it is great power. The priesthood is a requirement to be a servant. It is a responsibility.
Those responsibilities have a lot of power, and if you don't think it's used, then you haven't studied much church history. For heavens sake, the emphasis
the current Q15 makes about Seniority should concern everyone. The pecking order is very clear to newcomers, because it's about "Power". No "Servant"
would act like they do towards eachother.
"D&C 84
40 Therefore, all those who receive the priesthood, receive this oath and covenant of my Father, which he cannot break, neither can it be moved.
41 But whoso breaketh this covenant after he hath received it, and altogether turneth therefrom, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come."
@@Sirach144 Who told you that? Not true because they did not yet have knowledge of good and evil. Maybe you should stop making up your own doctrine.
I wish both women and men would look into what the priesthood really is and not as they say 'power' over people. I don't want to say too much due to sacredness of the temple, but one learns so much more after going through of what the priesthood represents to both women and men, and I think it's a beautiful thing. I know for me, I've never once thought 'I should have the priesthood'. And after I've learned so much more through scripture study, prayer and temple worship....is that us women are pretty blessed when it comes to the holy priesthood power. Not power as one would think (someone having authority over others or a power coming from them) BUT the power of the holy priesthood itself. Thank you for the discussion, it was an informative episode indeed.
Nope, u need to look at or read pre1990 endowment.
We literally have the promise that one will "Rule and Reign" in the house of Israel. If this is NOT an appeal to the human inclination for power, then I'm not sure what to make of it.
Who are we ruling and reigning over? Why would that need to be the promise?
@tsmithson1 to rule and rain as Christ. You know, the one who condescended below all. It is the opposite of a temporal power play.
@@tsmithson1 I look at it as the family. How does one already rule & reign over their family? Are you an abusive parent? Neglectful? Overbearing? Or are you just? Merciful? Loving? Lead & Show by example?
Christ rules & reigns accordingly without the ‘power hungry & dictatorship’ ideology. At least in my opinion anyway.
@@sbm3134 Yeah, I agree with that. I just agree that that is how our LDS church is set up.
As a Temple Ordinance Worker I function as a woman using Priesthood Power every day. I agree: The Temple teaches the meaning and use . as well as abuse, of power and control. Power is found in true humility. Control is in self-
control, learning to properly use AGENCY is the lesson here.
Sure, I agree, but can you as a woman make any final and binding decisions in this church without the approval of a Man?
@@tsmithson1 No, because the final & binding decision is, and should Always be, the Lord’s, and He is a male.
@@tsmithson1having been the a president of all female organizations in the church, when I come to the table if I make sure I’m informed and smart, without making compromised comments based on irrational emotions, WITHOUT losing my femininity, my input has been well received. Men work well as a team. They don’t care who the input comes from as long as you are a team player with something valuable to offer. I’m EMBARRASSED by these women who whine about men. It just shows that they have nothing of value to offer to be listened to. I don’t have a NEED to have all my requests approved. These women will NEVER sit on the board of a major company because they are whiners and not worthy contributors.
@@csc7211 NO, because God didn't have all these children by himself and therefore is in a partnership, where his wife (Heavenly Mother) shares in the decisions.
We just haven't had the courage to engage with the Femine divine.
@@lipstillmond More of these women do sit on boards of major companies.
Do you really think history has been kind to women? I don't know how you can argue with the historical facts.
Meagan Kohler is a stunningly beautiful woman. I’m a 70+ divorced mother and grandma and put aside years ago worries about equality and the priesthood which, over the last 5 decades, I have learned seems to be much ado about nothing and another distraction of the adversary when you really know who you are. So as much as it’s interesting I’m more captivated by Meagan’s beauty. She looks like someone straight out of a Renaissance painting, and could be an artist’s model for Mary, the mother of Jesus.
Oh my goodness. What she said about not wanting those kinds of women, seeking Power in a worldly way, in those ordained positions was priceless. Amen to that!
The Calling of the Priesthood is about Service. Look at every single level that Prepares them for serving others in a Worthy and Righteous way. Nothing about it is about Control. With Unrighteous Dominion comes Amen to the Priesthood. Women tend to naturally have so many avenues for service and have a nurturing instinct to care for the children sent through them, as well as those around them. That nurturing ability is deeply facilitated by the other tasks being tended to which women do not also need to tend to. It becomes exhausting to them.
Women in the church do have many positions to share their insights, prayers, and leadership abilities. President Nelson reveres women adamantly, cherishing their gifts!
Lastly, no man alone can be exalted to the Highest Degree without a woman By His Side. It is a joint effort. A world without men and women choosing to bear and raise the children that they created would go extinct.
God is good. He knows what He is doing. That is probably the question that needs to be addressed here. Do we Trust Him?
As a woman, mother, wife, daughter, sister, aunt, grandmother etc… I am so thankful for the priesthood of my husband, and my sons, who “hold” it dear to their hearts, and use it as a service to others. To me “priesthood “
means service. A priesthood holder cannot even bless himself. He must ask for a blessing, for himself, by another(s) priesthood holder(s). In that way, men are just like women, they must rely on another for a blessing. When I think of the priesthood in this way, I’m even more grateful for the blessings I receive from the priesthood power, that I’m so privileged to have access to.
I wish you were in our ward!! Move to NV!!
Watching the different reactions by members to the recent women/priesthood issue was like seeing the parable of the ten virgins playing out in real time.
The answers regarding the priesthood, and how it applies to men and women, are there in the scriptures and in the temple if one has the patience and humility. Those who see it through the eyes of the world, and have adopted its definition of equality and power, will never understand.
The problem Jared is that in the early Church, women could do all the things a male could do with regards to the Priesthood, and then it took a radical turn which has relegated women to being second hand citizens. Why the change?
@@tsmithson1 That's simply not true. Women were never ordained to priesthood office. For a time, they were allowed to give blessings of healing. That's it. If you're going to comment, at least have a base level knowledge of the matter or don't comment at all. I won't even attempt to get into the deeper particulars regarding the priesthood that are found in the scriptures (specifically the Eden account) and the temple. But, as I said, the answers are there.
@@tsmithson1 Women never did all the things men did in regards to the Holy Priesthood and never will. Women need to better understand the doctrine of the Holy Priesthood. We have equal but different power.
@@tsmithson1You’ve been listening to too many influencers. Time to quit the addiction. Michelle Stone was not called to preach doctrine and bring people unto herself neither has anyone ever outside of inspired callings.
I recommend listening to Elder Packer’s April 1985 talk “From Such Turn Away”. He repeats those before him and he’s quoted often by many today to turn away from those who aren’t called.
I really loved what Meagan said about looking at the organization of the church thru the proper lense. That of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If you are looking at the church, the Priesthood, etc., through any other lense, it is "disqualifying" as she said. I really appreciated that. Thanks for having this interview, Greg.
Power comes from personal righteousness.
Ok, so power has NOTHING to do with Priesthood then?
I actually agree with you.
Power comes from God to be used responsibly! We have no power but from the Priesthood! In other words we are under the umbrella of the Priesthood, Jesus Christ s is our High Priest!
Priesthood is the power to act in God's name. It's God's power.
Wait a minute... doesn't it come from Jesus Christ ?
@@FromtheFoyer Power comes from Jesus Christ! We are nothing without him but everything to him!
I'm a woman, extremely passionate about the Gospel, and consider myself quite conservative. I've reached a point where women speaking (talks, podcasts, interviews) is repellent and I will very often avoid them. Yes, I've thrown the baby out with the bathwater because I know there are exceptions, but the toxic feminism that is eating away at the foundations of the Gospel just pisses me off. Frankly I can't figure out what's worse -- the beta males who allowed it all to happen or the stunning and brave women who've ushered in the be-nicer culture.
AMEN!
Meagan, thank you for picking up the gauntlet and verbalizing all the different angles to what could be a very dividing and pernicious issue. In my 74 years, I have never once aspired to be ordained or to have the priesthood. I see this as just another way to sow disharmony in our hearts, and in the church.
When I was involved in politics, our chairperson (Evangelical) would not allow women to pray or open any meeting or event. I was so taken back because I'd never felt that type of suppression in the church.
Great and timely topic and discussion. I feel it is a privilege to serve God as a woman. One of my favorite scriptures is from Mary. "Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word"...
Thanks again!
"They're not listening"... That explains so much with so many people I know who've walked away from the Church for the flimsiest of reasons.
Thank you! It is so reassuring to know that there are people out there who see that there is wisdom and goodness in God's plan and his balance of responsibility between men and women. The Dell tackett series really helped me realize that God's order has so much wisdom in it. Also that the antidote to women's suffering is More righteous men not less. If we take everything from men and drive them out of the church which is the best place for them to rise to their potential, women and children will suffer more not less. Societies without nobles males increase suffering for the vulnerable first.
I'm not even sure that this comment is very relevant to this topic. I haven't been able to listen to all of the video yet but I will later on this evening. I am posting this comment because I'm trying to understand. As a lifelong male in the church I try to understand the way that the husband and wife in the family interact to make decisions. I also try to understand how the husband and wife interact to get things done and how the husband and wife interact to determine what is important.
Perhaps my comment will sound ignorant. Perhaps it will sound biased or sexist. Forgive me if it does. I'm not trying to create contention.
My experience as a male in his mid-50s, who has been married in the covenant for over two decades, is that women typically feel that they are in charge of the household, typically feel that what is important to them should be the priority in a household, and at times at least do not consider the burden that their husband is carrying. Observing my father as an adolescent, he and my mother are married in the temple and have been married in the temple for over 55 years, I know that as an adolescent I could see that my father felt oppressed in his marriage relationship. He would frequently say ask your mother I have no say in the matter. When people say that the church is patriarchal or misogynistic I think that is very mistaken. At least in my experience. In my family what I can see is men that do all they can to accommodate their wives and in my judgement the wives take advantage of that in a way that is very inequitable.The men do this because they want peace in the family.
My opinion is that in my family if the husband was to behave towards his wife the way that his wife behaves towards him there would be a tremendous lack of peace in the family and perhaps even dissolution through divorce.
If my comment is not pertinent to the show don't worry about commenting. And once again I asked for forgiveness if what I'm asking sounds contentious. I do not want to create contention. I'm just trying to understand the priesthood, my role as a husband, and how the marriage relationship should work. Thank you. I really appreciate the CWIC show.
The Church culture has been under the sway of the Women Are Wonderful effect for a long time, which feminists calculate to leverage through emotional terrorism - which is a distinctly female vice.
I feel sorry for the husband in this case. The wife should repent. What a disaster. She may act that way, because in the church women are taught the Princess syndrome. Which, of course increases entitlement, selfishness, boredom, and divorce.
When Uchtdorf wrote that book about women being princesses Visa be the princess syndrome, he was teaching false doctrine that is just was making things worse.
Teaching the princess syndrome in the church plating women and trying to make them feel good by patting them on their little heads . The way to bring value to men women is the doctrine of God and Christ repenting, and be as a little child and living a clean life, and realizing as a child of God, you have godhood in you, and can overcome what might be impossible things. And so on. Which is opposite the princess syndrome, and which is opposite the agenda of LGTBQ.
I was thinking of your reply above re Elder Uchtdorf. Unfortunates in this world many women feel oppressed, bullied and controled by their husbands. It is understandable why he would want to consol these women to raise them up, give them strength, having more confidence by holding their heads up high to deal with the on-slaughter they receive. Unfortunately I haven't read his book but it was just a thought that entered my head. @@truthseeker4286
I saw the exact same thing with my parents. I'm sure there are domineering men, but when I was growing up, my Mom was the tyrant. In noticing other relationships, it seems pretty common. I think truthseeker4286's comment about Princess syndrome is very apt and discouraging.
It's also called the "Women Are Wonderful" Effect. And yes, it's strongly-rooted in this supposedly "patriarchal" culture. Sometimes feminists in the Church will say they don't want to be "put on a pedestal" and I might believe them, if they were the first to talk about innate sex differences and the first to admit the vices typical of female nature. The vices typical of male nature - violence and sexual intrusion - are consistently and systematically warned against and checked. It would be useful to have such consistent and systematic checking of dodging accountability and emotional manipulation.
Women will be ordained the moment men are given the power to give life.
There is some truth to this. "Priesthood" has everything to do with family.
I’m confused what do you mean? I thought men have the power to give life.
@@erikcarpenter7860bingo!
@@erikcarpenter7860 Can you have a baby?
"There is no good and evil, there is only power and those too weak to seek it."
-Voldemort
Thank you for this episode. I love listening to such an articulate woman express my deeply felt beliefs. It’s a voice that needs to be heard loud and clear.
We all have the same amount of "power" in this church. It's called agency. You choose whether or not you will follow the prophet and follow Christ or follow some other philosophy of man, mingled with scripture.
And thankfully, we don't control the eternal consequences of the use of our agency.
Thank you for this posting - it was most informative!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Our scriptures on unrighteous dominion are so great! I'm glad missionaries and now youth have an org structure where they get to practice leading with love or leading with coercion and then floundering without the Holy Spirit. Good lessons to learn young.
Meagan! You express and explain things so well!
Men need women to expect of them to step up and be a good office holder. While women could certainly be capable of that, the minute the job is shared, the men will take the easy road, and then slide right out of working on sanctification. Then the church would be all women with few men attending.
I agree totally! So we'll put.
A drifting away of eternal family doctrine, or sealing being changed away from men/women, and ordaining women will lead to my exit. God’s not happy with us right now.
My wife is in the stake relief society presidency. I teach 7 year olds in primary. She has far more say than I do at the moment. No skin off my back. More power to her.
Then again teaching 7 year olds in their formative years is a greater responsibility in my book.
Greg this is a great topic to discuss and Meagan was amazing and so articulate with her discussion. Power is a fine line. If you don’t understand that true power is the ability to serve and be a servant rather then the ability to have control over other people’s agency, then you are missing the mark. Thank you Greg and Meagan it was a great discussion and I look forward to the next one.
Wow...this was a brilliant quote:
The classical view of rights - being bound up to attain virtue and association with duty.
The modern view of rights - radical autonomy.
Thank you for sharing the Institute Virtual Conference information! I also appreciate a video on this topic, since I have seen articles with the opposite perspective. I was surprised to see so much negativity in response to the Relief Society conference. Many referred to the quote about women's power in the church as gaslighting.
(Can you do a video about the Hildebrandt case reflecting on the church?)
If women want to obtain an office in the Priesthood, then they must also adhere to the requirements. For instance, a male must prove his worthiness to be ordained to each office. If he does not meet this and other requirements, then he can't be ordained to any other office. This has a great impact when it comes to the Temple. Only righteous men can receive a temple recommend when he's ordained to the office of Elder. Righteous women don't have this requirement.
If women are ever ordained to the priesthood I'm out!! I love that my boys have that calling and are worthy of it and I fully support them. This feminist movement is so toxic.
I hope the Michelle Stones of the church are taking heed.
Wow I feel Meagan brought up some very good points. I feel as members should feel so fortunate that we have the gospel instead of what we feel we are missing. We have everything we need to return to our Father in Heaven, both men and women.
"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Martin Luther King Jr.
I grew up with the notion that the Church was full of deadbeat dads who didnt spiritually pull their weight, and that there were legions of stalwart women who got the kids to church and functioned as both parents spiritually. While this us certainly the case for many, now it seems that the opposite is becoming true. So many moms in my ward dropping out with thr dads hanging on.
That's sad. Could I ask what state you live in? Hard to imagine women leaving their family responsibilities.
Kudos for taking up an issue others are ignoring but as nice as Meagan is, she has a conflict of interest as a paid employee of The Church. The discussion imo shows a misunderstanding of what's at the heart of the issues. Btw these surveys tell very little about the problems as they suffer from selection bias.
Hello Greg, any chance you could share the link to Meagan Kohler's article on Deseret News? Thank you kindly.
How did I miss that? It's in the description box now. Here it is- www.deseret.com/opinion/2024/03/24/latter-day-saint-women-happiness/
@@CwicShow Great! Thank you so much
Thank you for doing this interview. I think it brings to light better both sides of this issue. Hopefully we can get more voices in on this issue instead of only hearing the loud one sided views
You're welcome.
There is one thing that would be very problematic in the church if women were given the priesthood that no one is considering. Women with the priesthood would create mixed presidency’s. From Bishoprics to Sunday School Presidents, women would be called as counselors where inappropriate behavior could easily be abused. I can foresee marriages being destroyed and Wards collapsing even over the smallest circumstances of jealousy or envy.
That actually is a very good point, never thought of it that way
I have been saying this for years.
Welcome to the real world that we all live in. Are all coworkers the same gender? In boardrooms and offices all around the earth there is not some edict that keeps the sexes apart. We all have to work together responsibly. It’s just the reality of life. Even beyond that, there has been plenty of same-gender abuse in the LDS church so the point is moot any way. The world is not an infantilised, gender segregated dormitory at a conservative university.
It would be worse.
That is very different. Board rooms focus on unemotional practice to be profitable. Gospel service hones emotional connection while seeking the spirit to make decisions. Natural attraction between the sexes would be an impediment to this. The church structure Jesus instituted is the right way.
how many men get to be bishops
much less apostles? NONE of
the "positions of power" in
the church are as meaningful
as EVERY woman whos a mother
since they are next to Christ alone
in meaningfully advancing other
spirits along the path of God's plan
... its a shame the trend is AWAY
from honoring the way we all
got here -- almost like theres
an enemy of our happiness
directing current supremacy
victimhood narratives
I think the basis of this issue is really righteousness rather than gender power. If each of us acted with more love, care and support for the opposite gender, the issues would be fewer
But, the question is, Why can't women sit on the stand in Sacrament meeting? Why were they summarily kicked off earlier this year in the Bay area?
If it's not about power, then why does it matter? Why do we hear from 2-4 women in General conference? Why do we see pictures of Apostles by themselves?
I have had callings where I sat on the stand and others where I sat in the congregation. I've never thought, "Hey, look at me sitting here on the stand!" Or "Hey, look at that guy on the stand. I wish that was me!" I'd rather sit with my family in the congregation. Those who crave "the stand" might check their motives. In my experience, those on the stand are most concerned about whether they are sufficiently shouldering their considerable burdens and not at all about where they are sitting. Undoubtedly, some do love the limelight, but that's kind of shallow, isn't it?
My experience has been many YW groups are not teaching the basic doctrines on family, motherhood and marriage because they are afraid of offending the girls. Those not being taught the basics at home are going to fall for what is being taught in the culture.
That's accurate in our area. Less because of offending the girls- often because they agree with the culture.
Yep, just got released from YM because I didn’t agree with the other leaders on affirming girls who think they are a boy. The other leaders said that she needs to be her true self. They ganged up and got me released.
Great interview ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Question Greg , what’s the difference between religious power versus gospel power ?
This is the Church of Jesus Christ. How about we go to Him and ask how He wants to organize His church?
We did, where have you been.
Beware of pride talk needs to be reread at conference.... however I'm not the one that can make that call...and I'm grateful
Thanks!
Thank You! Greg for all your efforts to bring this awesome content.
You’re welcome. And thank you!
I trust Jesus Christ that he gave woman a specific role different from men. It is explained in the sealing ordinance in the temple. We can see it clearly when we separate ourselves from the world. The gospel is the gospel of freedom. Faith is needed differently from men and women. Feminism is a worldly view coming from Satan.
Woman can claim the power of the Priesthood… we stand under that power. Jesus Christ is my High Priest!
I would think that women being Washed and annointed in the temple get a much better deal from the Lord then we as men do.
I was hoping you would do a video on this. Reading the comments on Instagram about Sister Dennis' statement made me think of the Parable of the 10 Virgins. The door is closing and we will not be prepared to go in with the bridegroom if we are focusing on the wrong things. And her statement is true- no other organization in the world gives women actual priesthood authority in callings, in the temple, etc. We have the restored Gospel and the keys, and our women participate in that power! Where else does that happen? Also, I am grateful the Lord has organized his church in a way to train his sons to lead and serve. I love it!
If you want to know which gender is actually seen as inferior in the church, count the number of talks directed at women that chastise them. Then count the number of talks directed at men that talk about a job well done. I think in both cases you will be able to do it in one hand.
That has annoyed me the most, but it doesn’t change how I feel about the church.
@@naofumi5616 absolutely not. The church is still true and I do think there are opportunities to improve. There are a lot of crappy men including myself at times. I just bugs me when all these women murmur about wo is me essentially putting the entire blame on men. But I need to be patient with them just like with myself. So I do need to improve.
I feel like Greg was very well prepared for this interview and she acted like she hadn’t even read the article that she authored. Weird.
I can only imagine if women had priesthood roles... A woman as a bishop, It would relieve so much pressure from the guys 😂🫣
In the Old Testament, the Lord gave the Aaronic priesthood only to men. The prophets and apostles were men. Paul said the Bishop is to be the husband of one wife.
The Church continues this reality. And it will never change.
I’ll fix your quote:
The church continues this reality, but will *likely* change.
Even God bows to wokeness apparently.
I suggest my short and free essay on Deborah. Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. She was a pastor, according to the scriptures. This is how the Judges are described in Chronicles, by God.
A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin. A Judge's verdict could not be altered.
A Judge was cleared to teach from scripture as he/she gave a verdict, according to Deuteronomy. Since in Judges 4, men went to Deborah to be judged, a woman could teach men, even in the Old Covenant in a public setting.
In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
One has to explain Deborah. If your beliefs can't,
then your beliefs are false.
I’ve not met anyone yet who thinks women should hold the priesthood but if I had I’d simple ask “Why do you feel like you need to hold the keys?”
Which is an honest question for me. Why do these women feel like they need them? What is going on in their personal life that they feel like they can’t handle as they are?
Because at the end of the day, I’d bet most women will say a variation of ‘gender equality’ which is just them falling for the carefully laid lie of the adversary.
I have called upon the Lord in prayer, in the authority that HE Himself gave me and God has answered time and time again.
No Greg, even you are buying into a form of feminism lite. Fatherhood is just as divinely appointed as motherhood. Women aren't more inherently spiritual or virtuous than men. They are just spiritual and and virtuous in different ways. How can we expect to be "partners" if we're elevating one sex above the other.
I never said or implied that fatherhood was less divinely appointed than motherhood. Nor did I say or agree that women are more virtuous than men. Maybe I could have pushed back more, but I did not say that.
@@CwicShow you said that you considered motherhood to be the most important role. I disagree with that. I don't think it's less or more important than fatherhood.
@@geography_guy335 The most important role for a woman.
@@CwicShowyou didn’t make that distinction in the discussion and I though you were saying women were more virtuous as well. Glad to have found clarity here but I don’t think many will see this comment. Unfortunately I’ve grown up hearing and continue to see it taught that women are more inherently good and spiritual than men, even at high levels in the church. It’s a pervasive falsehood that many fall for.
Thank you for your videos Greg!
As an active woman in this church, I don’t want the offices of the priesthood. I’m glad the men in my life have these responsibilities that enable them to serve and grow.
At the same time there are certain things I don’t understand. Like why don’t women give blessings of healings and comfort? Joseph Smith said in a Relief Society meeting that it is good for women to give blessings. I understand in the 1920s President Grant encouraged members to call the brothers and not sisters to give blessings. I agree that if we encourage women to give blessings, men will sit back and women will do all the work. I don’t think that’s good. But why can’t women give blessings AT ALL? My husband has a job as a pilot and is gone several nights each week. Since I have priesthood power from my endowments, and my children are under my stewardship, why would it be wrong for me to bless my kids? I don’t feel comfortable calling men to my house in the middle of the night to bless my children. I love what women did back in the 1800s. They anointed and blessed women about to give birth. There is something really intimate and special about that. I would love for this to be brought back.
Now I get a little crazy…
I believe there are complementary opposites in every principle in the gospel. Justice and mercy, lion and the lamb, tree of life and knowledge, male and female, head and heart. Now if the complementary opposite of motherhood is fatherhood, what is the complementary opposite of priesthood? it’s not motherhood. I think there is priestesshood that we have yet to learn about (call me crazy). It is not the same as male priesthood offices. It is not baptizing and blessing the sacrament, but I don’t know what it is. I think we catch glimpses of it in scripture with Miriam leading the women in singing and dancing, Emma collecting hymns, Mary anointing Jesus, Mary being a witness of the resurrection, Eve and wisdom. Just thoughts running around my brain!
Responsibly not power is exactly how I view the priesthood
Be sure to register for the Isaiah Institute's virtual conference, "Day of Reckoning," here- www.bookofmormonisaiah.com/conference to learn more about the Book of Isaiah!
Isaiah tells us that in the latter days the daughters of Zion will be too preoccupied in vanity. The Lord will not be pleased with it, but He, of course, will have mercy on them. The verses after that say that the women will again become subject to a man to "take away their reproach".
Here are just a few verses. I'd recommend reading for yourself!
2 Nephi 13
12 And my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they who lead thee cause thee to err and destroy the way of thy paths.
16 Moreover, the Lord saith: Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched-forth necks and wanton eyes,...
17 Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will discover their secret parts.
24 And it shall come to pass, instead of sweet smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle, a rent; and instead of well set hair, baldness; and instead of a stomacher, a girding of sackcloth; burning instead of beauty.
26 And her gates shall lament and mourn; and she shall be desolate, and shall sit upon the ground.
2 Nephi 14
1 And in that day, seven women shall take hold of one man, saying: We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel; only let us be called by thy name to take away our reproach.
2 In that day shall the branch of the Lord be beautiful and glorious; the fruit of the earth excellent and comely to them that are escaped of Israel.
What does verse 24 mean
@@erikcarpenter7860 those verses are likely allegorical. Using imagery to teach a principle. It sounds like these women won’t be considered worthy or desirable- to be avoided similar to people with other diseases would have been undesirable back then. Since it seems to be tied with marriage later on it could possibly be related to the desire good men would have in marrying them. But I’d be interested in a scholars opinion.
I think that it’s important to point out the distinction between a worldly view/definition of power and a heavenly view power. We speak of the power of God and we ask him to manifest that power in our lives. But, does God have power merely because he holds an executive position in some institution? Surely not. The world sees power as a function of institutions that can exercise some element of compulsion or control. People are said to have power if they can move an institution this way or that. The scriptures teach of a very different kind of power; a power that is a product of righteousness and that can change power and/or the world through influence, persuasion, love unfeigned, etc.; in other words, by convincing people to use their agency to do things that move them toward the same righteousness that gives God power.
In D&C 29:36 God tells us that his power comes from his honor. Real honor only comes from righteousness. If you think of people that elicit real honor from you, they will inevitably be people who exemplify what you believe to be righteousness. So, in Heaven, no institutional positioning will ever give you power.
We joke in our house that Heavenly Father protects us from Heavenly Mother. Feminists' worst nightmare is for her to start answering their prayers.
Bahaha! That is hilarious! I love it!
Which heavenly mother?
There are many, of this I am sure. @@harambeboy
@@harambeboy The one that these purple-haired sisters belong to.
The gospel doesn't invert the power dynamic. Jesus is still the powerful leader, but willing to see things on our level and work with us. He doesn't give up his power and give it to us. Godly women want men who follow Jesus to have power in holy leadership, to use it to for good and not lord it over us, but treat us as equals and with love and appreciation. That's what great priesthood holders do, in my experience.
If you think of the sealing power you can understand the difference between man and woman roles! Those who question their womanhood and the Priesthood mustn’t forget the symbol of those pants their wearing under their skirts!
I GOT TICKETS! THANKS GREG!
If a biological male identifies as a woman or a transgender changes from male to female. Should there be a discussion on who should hold the priesthood?
No. Gender is not an election and existed before one is born into mortality and will remain unchanged in the next life.
Read the family proclamation.
@@knelson3326 You mean the proclamation written by a Law firm the church employed, and consulted ZERO woman on when it was drafted.
That episode caused quite the stir with the General relief society presidency, when the document was released by President Hinkley and not a single
one of the RS Presidency knew anything about it. How can you convince me that we take women's voices seriously when they are excluded on
matters that effect them as well?
I am equally perturbed that the women of Israel didn’t have any say in the parting of the Red Sea. How dare Moses not consult with the right people.
Polls can be subjective on the circumstance of the poll taker such as married, single in all its forms. Women are tired of being marginalized because their women.
My experience has been that women marginalized women more than men do.
This woman doesn't feel marginalized. Please provide some support for this overly broad sentiment that seems to imply that a lot of women feel marginalized.
In my experience, the idea that women are marginalized does not come from the Spirit. When we are working to live as God wants us to, serving & loving others, being grateful for all He has done for us, even grateful for our trials, then we can be extremely happy and content. Also in my experience, leadership positions do not make us feel powerful & special, but make us feel humble as we become even more of a servant, and help us grow. They expose our inadequacies and urge us to rely on the Lord even more. I have never felt marginalized once in my 53 years in the church. In all the ward and stake councils, where we women were few and the men outnumbered us by a lot, I have never felt marginalized, and have observed that the women’s ideas & thoughts are given the most weight, by the men. It is sad to me, to have observed over the last decade, a small number of women with loud voices, letting the world feminist view creep into their hearts. We are meant to be IN the world, but not OF the world.
@@csc7211 I agree! The Atonement of Jesus Christ empowers us and it's through Him that victimization and marginalization can be taken from us, if we feel it an issue for us. I don't feel like that, but others might.
Wait, you're trying to confuse affirmations with reality?
Incredibly reductive discussion, imo. No mention of third and fourth wave feminism, ambivalent sexism framework, or even the 4B movement occurring in South Korea.
It's very telling that the discussion begins by establishing that the issue does not appear to be an actual issue for women in the church, according to empirical evidence, and yet they continue to speak of "solutions" to the non-existent problem.
Not beating the allegations that most of the topics on the channel are imaginary fears created in one man's mind.
What are you babbling about?
@@jaredshipp9207 sir, please go back to the basement
I see her efforts as trying to suppress the vocal minority.
@@knelson3326 They should be suppressed. Or at least ignored. The Church and believing membership doesn't need advice from whiners who have no understanding of the priesthood and no real testimony. This is demonstrated by the fact they see the Church as simply another man-made institution that can be led through activist efforts (rather than divine revelation) and are more concerned with bringing the world into the Church than they are bringing the gospel into the world.
@@jaredshipp9207 sir, if revelation is powerful and true, then no amount of debate, argument, or ideology can possibly remove a person from the church than one's own self
For any who may choose to view the Priesthood in terms as the world defines "power" and not through the lens of our Father In Heaven I have one scripture...
D and C 121:34-37 Enough said!
34 Behold, there are many called, but few are chosen. And why are they not chosen? 35 Because their hearts are set so much upon the things of this world, and aspire to the honors of men, that they do not learn this one lesson- 36 That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness. 37 That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man."
Also, I couldn’t think of anything worse than being a bishop while breastfeeding or postpartum. Which had been my life the last 6 years.
These women just don’t think it thru. I don’t need to see women to feel represented.
What is it meant when she mentions that men have the priesthood for formidable reasons? I have always heard that men have the priesthood because we need it and women don’t need it because they are more righteous than men, is this true? I have never heard a prophet or an apostle say this.
The word she used was formative. It forms/shapes them.
It's just benevolent sexism. "Well men aren't as good as women, so they need to do these certain things and women can do other things" @@hawaiimetis3363
@@hawaiimetis3363 ya that is what I meant
Women are not more righteous than men.
I take this to mean that men thrive under a ridged structure with clearly laid out goals and responsibilities. Women tend to naturally be a bit more free form and thrive in adaptable environments (think the ever changing nature of pregnancy, birth and child rearing) Women don’t need the priesthood responsibilities in the same way that men thrive in them. We are different beings and God created the perfect system to cater to our strengths.
Sorry Greg... I couldn't finish this one... she wasn't the best person to interview. Maybe it was just me. But I just couldn't do it any longer.
To each their own.
It would have been better if another woman with a different perspective could have been included instead of appearing to understand and speak on behalf of someone who has had very different experiences and perceptions. Just my $0.001. I prefer more balanced interviews and want to hear from both sides.
1:30 - Survey showing most LDS women, including younger women, do not want female ordination to the priesthood
3:46 - Understanding the church through a "prism of power" will never make sense
5:09 - Jesus Christ inverted the normal power dynamic; the greatest is the servant
6:25 - Sister Dennis said no other religion has given so much authority to women as the LDS church
7:51 - Reasons why many LDS women may not want female ordination, like trusting the prophet and seeing priesthood as formative for men
10:42 - Rising generation is not revolting against the church's position on women as much as assumed
12:47 - Meaning of "liberationist"; freedom has a purpose beyond just liberation
14:52 - Traditional feminism seeks to liberate women from womanhood and feminine traits
17:20 - Reactionary feminism accepts womanhood, contrasted with seeing female traits as impediments to equity
19:23 - Sexual revolution's negative impacts on women who bear more burdens of uncommitted sex
21:03 - Ways to avoid a prism of power mindset - be aware of online echo chambers and look through a gospel lens
23:26 - Importance of emphasizing motherhood to provide women a clear purpose
26:23 - Men are in positions of responsibility, not power, over men and women, to help them develop Christlike attributes
28:36 - Potential for ordaining women someday, but those who see priesthood as power are not qualified to wield it
31:28 - Bad apples who abuse authority are a human problem, not specific to gender
32:08 - Hope that the church can transcend toxic cultural influences by heeding the vision of womanhood from female leaders
Nice, Baz
@cwicshow To put this issue into context, suppose I am a parent of two children. I assign one of the children as the “presider” over the other. I allow the presiding child to make the final decision in all deliberations, I give this child authorization to decide how the other should behave, dress etc. I even give the child a special chair at the front of the table and allow him or her to begin eating before the other child. Most importantly I tell the other child that I simply want it this way and they will never preside like the other child can. Do you really expect that this will not build any animosity between the two children? Do you really expect that the other child, the one who is now allowed to preside will not begin to view the differences between themselves and the other child as being about trust, power, and authority? Is it really unreasonable if this child who cannot preside longs for a day when they can?
@nickstainback5552 you actually think that it’s men who are in charge. It’s god who is in charge. Men who use this position of responsibility unjustly will be under condemnation!
@@danieljcapel It's unjust by its implicit structure, not just by how its utilized. Like Nick said above, how can you expect for one relegated to never preside not to interpret the structure as being about trust, power and authority? And, that decision is not based on competence, or merit, it's based on an immutable fact that they have no control over, they were born a Female.
You don't understand what preside means.
@@jaredshipp9207 enlighten me.
@@jaredshipp9207 apparently, neither do you.
In October 2023 women were excluded from sitting in the seats in the front of the chapel. (In the bay area by the Area President) How does that policy fit into the framework of women existing in a non-power status in the Church (as you have so convincingly described) ...I'm trying to understand, not to get lured into the power politics of this issue.
A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin. A Judge's verdict could not be altered.
This was all settled at about 1100 B.C.
I just utterly disagree with the view you share on this, and really much of what you preach TBH. But I do recognize that you both are speaking from inside the bubble much like I had for so long. I realize you just don’t know what you don’t know! If you ever step outside that bubble (or of it ever bursts on you) you will see it for what it really is. You will see truths you wouldn’t have allowed in that bubble before but are nonetheless true. You will look back on these one sided arguments you’ve made (that we have all made when in the bubble) and just be amazed at what you just didn’t know. But maybe you won’t. Maybe you’ll be in the bubble for the rest of mortality. 🤷🏽♀️
Thanks
At the end of the discussion Meaghan makes the point that if women view gaining the priesthood as a matter of obtaining power or status this should disqualify them. Has she considered that this is a one-sided standard? Currently, men are ordained to the priesthood by default, regardless of whether they personally view it in terms of power and status-which surely some men somewhere do. So the question becomes why should women be disqualified on that basis but men should not?
It's not a one-sided standard. Read D&C 121.
Because men and women are different neurologically and psychologically, and men need the formative experience of discipline into offices in ways that women do not.
The strongest case that could draw my sympathy towards ordaining women to priesthood offices (beyond setting apart for callings) would be that it could more rigorously teach them virtue. But that won't happen if it's conceded in response to activism motivated by Critical Theory.
@@TrebizondMusic-cm6fp “men need the formative experience of discipline into offices in ways that women do not.” Why?
@@TRM520 Until we see real life instances of 1) men being asked their views on priesthood and evaluated on whether they view it as primarily about authority and power BEFORE ordination and 2) those men who fail the evaluation are denied priesthood ordination as the guest suggested, it will continue to be a one-sided standard.
@@nickstainback5552 Because of our (evolutionarily-shaped, if you will) biological differences, which extend not only to body shape but to the workings of our endocrine systems and our brains. Because "gender" - that is: sex, and I would add virtue of behavior that follows logically from the facts of sex - is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.
😢 I think the worst influences are current or former lds members. The worst people of the book of mormon were or are members. Look to the book of mormon very dark things....
Agreed. Members who were seeking after the praise of the world ended up being the most toxic people in the Book of Mormon.
Another man commenting on the role of women in the church. How about we ask the women of the church what they feel their role should be? Perhaps people might learn something. The women of the church do a lot really within the church why should they do more?
Half of the people in this video is a woman talking about a woman's role in the Church. As a female member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who has accepted the law of consecration, I don't see it as my job to determine what my 'role should be.' I serve where I am called and volunteer in other places, using the unique gifts the Lord has blessed me with. Also, it is destructive to human relationships and society to assert that only certain classes of people should be allowed to discuss certain topics.
I did. She is the guest and wrote an article on the subject. Of course, with your logic, you can't comment on men either. And therefore, no one can comment on gender/sex dynamics.
@@gemelindacjp7976 A robot goes where it is sent to go without a thought. The lack of critical thinking in the church is shocking.
@@CwicShow Clearly Critical thinking is not high within the church.
Greg just used his (rather large) platform to spotlight the opinions of a woman in the church. And I’m grateful he did, I wouldn’t have been introduced to Meagan otherwise.
The women already do much of the heavy lifting and dirty work in the church. Stop with all the excuses about admin time….. Have you met a relief Society present recently?