Tuning Empi 34 ICT / EPC Carbs for your Volkswagen - Lean Best Idle
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- čas přidán 18. 08. 2020
- Today we're firing up Aaron's engine again after the cam break in process the other day. We will be adjusting the carbs, syncing them and tuning the idle via lean best idle process.
Thank you for watching.
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I know this is a few years old, but I'd like to offer some advice from my many years of VW and Porsche, as well as motorcycle experience. First, before anything else you've got to get the idle mixture right, and before you can get idle adjusted you need to make sure the floats are set properly, that the float needles seat and function correctly, and that the fuel pressure is correct from the pump.
I've seen these Chinese knockoffs come new from the factory with floats that were set way out of spec or with float needles that didn't seat correctly.
If your fuel pressure is too high or low you'll never be able to get the carbs running right no matter what the jetting. The mechanical vw type 1 and old type 2 fuel pumps, especially aftermarket, are notorious for putting out too much fuel pressure for dual carb setups. As mentioned in another post ideal for dual Weber, Dellorto, Kadron (Solex), and their Chinese clones is 3.3 - 3.5 PSI. If much higher you can install a regulator or if it's only high by just little use shims on the pump block to raise it up (reducing pressure). If low by a little you can try shaving the mounting block or if way low, replacing the pump.
Only begin experimenting with jetting after getting the idle correct and the carbs synced at idle. The main jet circuit shouldn't even come into play until the throttle is at least 1/4-1/3 open (approx 2500 RPMs on a VW or Porsche 356). When dialing in your jetting change only one thing at a time. The easiest way to get things hopelessly out of wack is to change multiple things at one time, i.e., main jets and emulsion tubes.
Keep in mind that the better retailers will sell you cabs with correct jets installed or at least pretty close, because they'll ask you for the specs of your engine, including, bore and stroke, camshaft grind, rocker lift ratio, compression ratio, and valve size, as well as where it will be driven primarily. Example, if driven primarily in the South at sea-level you'll probably want to jet slightly rich so it will run cooler than if running at altitude in the Mountain West where you'll want it jetted leaner. However, keep in mind that a vehicle jetted for altitude will run hot at sea-level, and conversely one that's jetted for hot climates at sea-level may run way too rich and out of breath at altitude.
All great points that I’ve covered on other videos.
I appreciate you taking the time to write all of this for others to read.
I still need to make my test stand!!
Great work on the carbs!!
I'm ready to see it home and go for test drive!!
Keep up the great work brother!!
Well, the engine is done but he’s no where near finishing the car.... he’s got a ways to go.
Once the car is done I’ll take ya along to see it and a test drive.
Hope you’re having a good week brother.
Sounding sweet !! I started to have flashbacks when the carb wasn't responding lol. Glad you got it running nice
Thanks man, they all take a bit of work to get right.... none are perfect out of the box.
Thanks for the video Gary... heck yeah let's see that 60 in the garage!
Thanks Lee! Next week we start on the 60!
Wow so much details .
You rock thanks for sharing your knowledge ✌️ Blessings and more blessings to you and your family
Thank you for the kind words.
Hope you have a great day, stay safe and healthy!
Great job Gary! Sounds great and will get better with break in milage. Can't wait for the 60 monster bug. Lol Stay cool! Jim
Thanks Jim! This will make him a nice combo without going crazy.
Next week we start on the 60! I already have a few videos done and hope to keep up the momentum! Stay well buddy!
I really like that engine start set up, very nicely done! I’ve seen you use it before of course. But I had to say it again lol
Those empis seem pretty decent. Knowing your personality I could tell you weren’t completely thrilled by your expression. You did a great job as always brother!! 🍺🍺
Haha, you’re reading my facial expressions now also 😂
I wasn’t impressed at first but I got her mostly dialed in. She’ll run better once some miles on it. The start box could be simplified but I like lights and switches 🤷♂️😂
VWJAWBREAKER After some break in time, it does help! You did a great job as usual. With the switches and Tach that’s just a really great set up!
Just a little food for thought most weber/weber clone carbs don't like more than 3-3.5 PSI of fuel pressure. Adding a fuel pressure regulator will help with tuning and the day to day operation. I know it's a factory piston driven fuel pump, just keep in mind the factory fuel pump has been know to put out up to 9 psi but normally runs at about 6 psi. Keep the great videos coming!
I did mention that to him but then it slipped my mind. Thank you for reminding me, I’ll remind him now! 👍
Nice one Gary, looks and sounds great. Also the rain there is probably a load warmer than the rain here at the minute. I can’t wait to see what you have planned for the 60 . Take care my friend
We’ve been getting hammered lately with rain, it does cool things down quite a bit. Unfortunately a EF2 tornado touched down about 10 miles away yesterday, feel bad for those folks affected.
Next weeks video starts the 60 saga.
Hope you’re having a good week man!
VWJAWBREAKER so long as you batten down pal and you all stay as safe as you can, we ditched the site due to a 50mph wind ripping through at 1 this morning, just landed back home , 841miles since the rebuild and was touching 75-80 on the motorway. I’m happy with that
Dean Robinson oh wow man, definitely safety is top priority!
Glad she’s running well since the rebuild! Enjoying seeing the camping pics.
I over jetted my carb. I thought my displacement of 1968cc demanded the larger main. But It ran horrible and I came across another video of yours talking about valve size. My valves are stock. So I changed my main down to a 135. And problem solved. I am only running a 34/3 carb. But I am saving up for a new cab set up.
Thank you for these videos. They really help someone work through a issue.
I’m glad to hear they were able to help you along!
I don’t know it all but I’ve learned a lot and experienced quite a bit.
I would love to see your box wiring. I’m not good at wiring and it would be awesome to have a box for my first startup. Sounds awesome!!!
I have several people all of a sudden asking for the wiring for the box. I’ll try to put together a video soon. Thanks for the feedback.
Nice setup :)
Hey thanks! It was cheap to make and it does the job 👍
Hey man Kevin here from Australia.
Interesting video this would be a good one to take us along on the cars first drive with this engine.
Anyhoo stay safe and stay well and dry.
✌ Peace man 🌻
Hey Kevin!
Unfortunately the car is far from complete or being on the road. He’s doing a 80’s themed full custom bug. I do plan on a ride along but it’s still a ways out.
@@VWJawbreaker sounds like an interesting build.
It definitely is. I’ll film it when he’s done so you can see it.
Nice build & set up , bring on the 60' :)
Thanks Jason. Next video we start messing with the 60. I need to get with you on parts and prices, I have someone who might be heading that way in a few months.
Very nice startup rig.....
Thanks. Think I finally need to move forward with my throttle idea lol
Sounds nice we're doing an efi turbo build 1776cc again quite busy
Wow, that’ll be a sweet build I’m sure.
I am looking forward to seeing your new project 60' beetle
Thanks Greg, we get started on next weeks video.
Gotta love carb tuning lol.
Rob Stapleton oh yeah lol
You need to check the carbs are balanced with a flow meter, thanks for posting.
Yep, that was done later.
Hi interesting video,
I have a question if one side is running lean can that make one of my exhaust hotter than the over.
Thank you.
Yes it could. Check that your idle jets are the same, that the mixture screws are turned out the same amount on both carburetors and make sure you do not have any vacuum leaks.
Thank you for the response, currently would be on stock 1600 with tri mil hot dog exhaust. A lot of stuff you read says just go with dual 40's. Do you think there would be a big performace difference with minimal things done. This is on a 73 super not that it matters.
You’ll get a little more umph with dual carbs vs a stock carb. With the dual carbs jetted properly and the exhaust, I’d say you’ll gain 5hp or so. Won’t be a huge difference but again is a gain.
Same carbs on my 1600 do and I love them but it has always run a little rich. Not sure since I have never rejetted a set of carbs which jet to change out. It runs excellent from 1500 rpms to 4000. Idle jet?
docteroperation sounds like the idle jet or the mixture adjustment.
Needing some advice. I’ve got a 1963. Exact same carb set up. Engine was rebuilt and has about 700 miles on it. It’s been sitting for 2 years. Spark plugs are blacker then black after I drive it for a bit and take a few cranks to start after it’s warm. Any ideas on what to look at first? Any advice would be awesome.
Sounds like the floats need to be checked and the carbs jetted for your engine.
Nice video man! I have a 1973 1500 cc and I like to do the same serpentine belt set up, where can I order it, thanks
MST serpentine kits are all over at any of the online or local VW stores.
Here’s a link to one place that sells them, they are a great store to buy from
thevdubfactory.com/collections/mst/pulley-system
I had to dredge this one up again because I need to retune my dual 34ICTs... I built a 1915 that had a case failure (sound familiar?) and of course I'll reuse the top end on a stroker but that's going to take some $aving-up time, so just to get back on the road I rebuilt my old 1600 (with the 34s) as a 1641.
Which cam did you have in your 1641? (I managed to find a W100)
Hope the video helped get them sorted out for you!
Sucks when those problems happen, really deflates our motivation.
I ran the scat c35 on my 1641, the w100 is a good cam and you should like it 👍
I have a 65 bug 1776, single 40idf carb. My mechanic thinks I should change to dual weber 34 ict. Can the dual 34ict run better than the 40idf ..
In my experience, I would say dual 40’s would do even better as you can dial in each cylinder vs the 34’s.
IDF’s weren’t designed be ran as a single carb so they don’t run the smoothest or preform the best especially for street driving.
Dual 34’s are great and can even be tuned to preform well up to 2L T4 engines.
Bought a 38 idf single carb fitted it runs like dream only issue is one of my heads has a leak somewhere. Replacing the empi heads for cb performance units
The 38 is a great carb, much better than running a single idf like some do.
What’s up with the heads?
@@VWJawbreaker not sure. Was getting oil in the cyl the rings pistons and barrels are new. Fid inspection found oil droplets sitting there. Took heads of checked. Took too a engineering shop where they did a pressure check and some etching powder shown a crack in the intake valve. Car wasnt driven hard used as a daily.
@@pierreduplessis1507 well that sucks!
What size engine is that I have a 1800 and I'm thinking about putting these carbs on what do you think about this or 40 Kadrons
Charles Martin depends on what you want out of your engine. These 34’s will perform better than a stock single carb but not as good as dual 40’s. I know a few people running these 34’s on type 4 engines with great success. It’s all about preference and what performance level you’re trying to achieve.
Hi I'm gonna be tuning and syncing my dual 40 idfs tomorrow and my left carb's Accel pump seems to squirt less than the right one. Both Accel pump rods were adjusted to 7mm threads past the locknut so I don't know why they're different. Turning in the locknut increases squirt right?
You are correct, more thread showing the more squirt. I’d start off with very little thread showing, it’s common for people to try to tune out issues caused by too much accel pump.
Also, I accidentally edited out the use of a flow meter to sync the carbs.
@@VWJawbreaker I set it to 7mm since that's what remember being the "out of the box measurement" also I did see your video on tuning dual 40s
I know this is old but what are your thoughts on the empi 34 etc's ?
I personally don’t run them but that’s due to the engines that I have.
I’ve helped many and know many who run them and love them. If I had a set, I wouldn’t hesitate to put them on.
Do you always balance tube 34 ICTs? That is the one thing I've heard so many comments on (for my own engine) there there was no clear consensus if it was necessary. Curious as to what size NPT connections you drilled and put in for it.
These intakes already had the fittings for the balance tubes.
Is your engine a single port or dual port?
@@VWJawbreaker Dual Port. The bosses on the intakes are not drilled nor tapped yet. I was going to try to get it running and dialed-in without the balance tube, as the engine is stock-ish, though I'm beginning to regret just not going stock on everything on this build. I need it running to get it into the 72 I want to sell. I added to many little variables (larger valve heads, C20 cam, 87mm pistons, not-stock exhaust) and it just is not wanting to idle at 900 or so RPMs.
You may not need to use the balance tubes on the dual port, at least not in my experience.
Gary I know this is an older video but I’m ready to purchase dual 34 carbs. What is the difference ICT vs. EPC carbs. Not much info on that. I do run a vacuum advance distributor. Thanks
From my understanding they are basically the same now days. The Empi ones do have a vacuum port, at least the few sets I installed did.
@@VWJawbreaker Thank you Gary for your time. The Empi and Weber 34 ict are about $100 different I’m leaning to the Webber ‘s.
Imo the Webers are money well spent.
Cool
Thanks. Thanks for being here, stay safe and healthy.
I have the new empi set up and the balance tube hook up is on the carbs . for a type 1 bug. do u need to hook up the balance tube because on the empi video it shows you can plug the ports on the carbs. just wondering if I should hook a balance tube?
On single port intakes you need the balance tube. Not so much on dual port intakes.
@@VWJawbreaker thanks for the info. another question. going use the stock fuel pump. do I need to put in a fuel regulator or can I run the stock pump as is thanks again
@@reeftheseaforever you’ll need to verify the fuel pressure to know if you need a regulator or not.
What is up jawbreaker!?!? I need 2 watch the assembly/install video but what are your thoughts on these Empi EPC’s vs the Weber ICT’s? I’m kind of over messing with my stock solex 32 PDSITs on my Fasty mine took 2 sets 2 make 1 that’s not letting me dial them in and while looking for vacuum leaks found 1 of my accelerator pumps is leaking! Meanwhile my oil cooler on the new engine decided 2 start puking so the fresh shiny new engine is coming back out..... oil leak kept me from a catastrophe from the fuel leak!? I kept it single port trying 2 stay stock looking, my choices on carbs are stocks, impossible 2 find good 1’s, EPCS or ICTS. I’m bummed about both aftermarket choices because I’ll lose my stock look! But man I want 2 drive my car get it dialed! ICT’s are more $$$ either option is more $ because it’s a single port type 3..... the place I’m thinking about purchasing from only deals with the ICT’s and for extra they will do an initial setup of the carbs aliased in engine/elevation before shipping them out.
Well, I know several people who run the Empi 34’s with great success. It’s all in the tuning and setup. I’d recommend them to anyone who has a little bit of patience to get them going. If I’m thinking of the same place as your talking about, they will jet them but their jetting isn’t always spot on, but it is close. Keep that in mind.
Sucks the engine has to come back out, such is VW life man. You’ll get it, I know you will. Don’t get frustrated, walk away if need be.
VWJAWBREAKER yeah I’m sure there will still be some tweaking, Aircooled.net is the 1 that offers their carb setup which would probably be the closes 2 out of the box setup...... I’m bummed I’ll lose the stock look which is what I was really striving for but I’m not finding any good sets of the 32PDSIT’s 2 start with.... I feel like I’ll end up with 10 trash pairs trying 2 get some useable 1’s.....
You’re right, no sense fighting with them to keep the car going only to keep having issues. AirCooled.net gets things really close, I’ve only seen one that we had to tweak a tad.
VWJAWBREAKER thanks for the info! Yeah I’m so itching 2 drive the car all these set backs are making me nuts! Who knows maybe I’ll figure a way 2 modify the stock air cleaner and linkage at some point 2 work the 34’s so it still has the stock look.... We’ll see I reached out 2 1 more place 2 see if they have/deal with the 32’s but I’m not having luck finding a good set
I have a question. Dual EPC carbs. The carb on the left injets a lot of fuel? Do I need to replaced a the main jet, the idle jet or the carb? Thank you?
What do you mean by it injets more fuel?
@VWJawbreaker hi and thank you. What I mean is that the amount of fuel going into the carburetor is a lot, and floods the carb
@@zervaladap.1211 could be needle and seat or jets. Hard to say with such little information.
Great vid as always man. Quick question.. I have a “friend” who put his heads back on his motor ( obviously wasn’t paying close enough attention ) and noticed afterwards one of the push rod tubes was kinked. He was thinking 🤔 straighten it out with some light prying. It’s not an expensive build, have u ever heard or seen anyone fix it this way? Again, I’m asking for a “friend”.
Ps , I might have kinked one of my pushrod tubes and found it during motor installation 😭
Veedub914 Darryl thanks man for being here as always.
As for the push rod tube, your friend is better off pulling the head and straightening the push rod tube. They are thin metal and if he pry on it it’ll get worse. He can use a deep wall socket on an extension if needed to help get the shape back. If it linked bad, he’ll need a new one.
VWJAWBREAKER on that note, do you stretch the accordions out or leave them as is? I suppose as long as they lock in place and cant be spun by hand after heads torqued n seams up , should be good to go.
Veedub914 Darryl usually I expand them just a tad, with a deep wall socket inside so I don’t accidentally bend it wrong or kink it. I’ve also left them alone and usually been just fine.
Good video! But I'm wondering how you can get them dialed in without using a flow meter? I've tried and can get close but never just right.
With dual carbs, you need a flow meter unfortunately.
@@VWJawbreaker I think I miss worded my comment. I meant that you didn't show that you used a flow meter so I was wondering how you got them synced without one.
Adam's buggies and bugs ah, I gotcha. I must have edited that part out. Having the jets so far off it threw me for a loop.
@@VWJawbreaker I totally understand I just built a 1915 and it took me forever to get it dialed in with the little solex carb. Now I'm gonna try some dual singles on it to try and get a little more out of it!
Adam's buggies and bugs depending on your engine combo, dual duals would be better vs dual singles.
👍
WHERE IN FLORIDA DO YOU LIVE ? I JUST BOUGHT A 1962 VW DUNE BUGGY , IT'S HAS SOME POPPING ON ONE SIDE THROUGH THE EXHAUST , I HAD TO FLUSH OUT THE GAS TANK FUEL LINES AND CLEAN THE CARBS ( RUST , IT WAS SITTING FOR YEARS ! IT NEEDS SOME WORK , BUT THAT WILL HAPPEN OVER TIME !
I’m in central Florida but I know people pretty much all over that I could recommend you taking your buggy to if needed.
@@VWJawbreaker I live in Palm Coast east coast
@@AlanDavid1955 I know there’s a place in Jacksonville, don’t recall the name right now.
U started at 2 turns out on air mix screw...is that both barrels or u just do the front??
If it was 2 barrels
@@vdub6873 for dual barrel carbs, 1 1/2 - 2 turns on each to start. If dual barrel dual carbs, you want all 4 barrels to be the same.
Ok thanks yes they r dual barrel dual carbs 40 idfs I believe
@@vdub6873 same process, just 4 mixture screws instead of 2.
What did u do when u couldn't get motor to react much to mixture screws?
Stock fuel pump?
Yep.
Hopefully get my 2019 build reassembled and my EMPI 34s running. I had a nightmare time getting it to idle below 1200 or so. Was driving me crazy. I did recently rejet them to something I came across on an a blog but I haven't got them running yet.
LOL! Of course, as I'm deeper into the vid you yourself mention jetting issues!
Lol, yeah I had the same issue. Make sure you rejet them and also pinch off the balance tube when adjusting them.
i could never get my balance tube to work. you pinched that balance tube (twice) and i didn't hear the idle change. so maybe it's not just my setup.
It does change, just not very noticeable on camera. They seem to make the biggest difference on single ports, not so much on dual ports from what I’ve experienced.
@@VWJawbreaker what's the idle speed?
Scotty C idle speed when I was done was around 850-900
Yes, the 60 is next.
Darn right it is! Can’t wait to see people’s reaction.
@@VWJawbreaker i have 2 guesses but ill keep it to myself and see if im right.
Regardless, it’ll be a fun build. When things cool off and calm down a bit, let me know if you want to swing by.
@@VWJawbreaker i will take ya up on that. Get my transmission done and ill need a road trip.
Vintage Speed VW the way things have been going this year, we all need a road trip!
Definitely wouldn't be running empi 4 pot exhaust they are very restrictive and they run very hot I'm having a 1776 built but with vintage speed exhaust .
Vintage speed does have some nice product but not everyone wants to spend that kind of money.
This exhaust on this engine he put on temporary until he gets a custom header system built.
get rid of that horrid EMPI backbox - they cause no end or problems and rot in weeks!
It’s on the shirt list of things for him to replace. All I did was a refresh on the engine and install the carbs.
Time wasted man, you will having issues every 200 mile with these shit carbs. Just buy a new set of weber 40s idf and you will be cheaper. Im talking out from experience.
I completely understand where you’re coming from but I also know tons of people that run these carbs without any issue at all.
I appreciate the feedback.
Hi, I have a sandrail I bought a few months ago with a 1600cc and dual Weber 34 ICTs and it's been giving me hell for a bit, I need to get the throttle body in adjustment because I screwed with it a bit too much and got it out of whack. I was wondering how much work it would be to switch over to a single carb on that engine? After I get that throttle bar adjusted I'm going to try a bit more to get those carbs dialed in again. Thanks for all your help!
Wouldn’t be difficult to swap to a single carb setup at all. Just need the end castings, center section and a carb. Simplicity wise, a single carb is easier to deal with.
@@VWJawbreaker 👍🏻 Thanks for getting back to me I'm going to do some looking around online and see what I can find. I'm going to see what I can accomplish with that dual setup this weekend