Failing Harley Parts That Can Be Catastrophic Failure
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- čas přidán 17. 08. 2023
- Failing Harley parts to can lead to catastrophic engine failure when you try and save a few dollars on engine upgrades. Swapping cams is always a great way to add power but it's not cheap especially if you go all out. Lifters are always a big question with any cam swap, but do you need to change lifters with a new cam? It's never a bad idea to swap for a fresh set of lifters with a new cam swap, especially if you have some miles on your current lifters. Lifters are pretty inexpensive when you take into account the cost of a performance cam, oil, gaskets and the labor associated with installation. Now consider a lifter failure and rebuying a new performance cam, new lifters, oil pump, bearings and anything else a lifter failure might take out.
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Do you like to reuse lifters with a brand new cam or swap out for a fresh set with that new cam?
Hell NO, not in an EVO or Twin Cam. Cam Bearings and lifters as all my cams are about a 585 lift. Change them every 25-30k miles, the lifters are a ware item.
New lifter's with new cam
Replace Lifters and Pushrods if your changing the Cam(s) I would go a step further and replace the valve springs and rocker arms as well. (Harley ones are not good for aftermarket upgrades)
Stock lifters but only because of cost. I'd love to get a crate motor or build one up and upgrade everything down to the bolts.
Ran my Jim’s super power glide lifter kit in my shovelhead with a Andrews B , v-thunder 4050 and raced it with a Andrews m grind , with roller rockers & .617 lift. 7000 rpm No problems or failures.
I recently switched to S&S conversion lifters for the reason of trying a cam with more duration for drags. The lifters & lifter bore were inspected every 5000 -10,000 miles. No reason to switch them if they aren’t broke.
Over the years, the most often overlooked part I've seen fail the most, and most catastrophically is the rider.
Good video.👍
On the flip side, I guess there's always the small chance you could replace perfectly working stock lifters with a new set of stronger lifters, only to later find out that one has a manufacturing defect, resulting in noise or failure. At least you know the stock ones were good.
BIG G'day GixxerFoo from Down Under 🇦🇺
Thanks so much for your advise, yes I'm swapping out everything old for new..... Regardless being in Australia & costing great now..... Is better than catastrophic failure & leaving me in tears😭😭😭 & no one to blame but myself.... Thankyou for all your doing on & off screen, I truly appreciate it all♥️♥️♥️💪💪💪
Remember rule #1
Safe travels 🙏♥️🐾🐾🇦🇺
I replaced the entire cam chest when I installed the Woods 222 in my 103. Went with all S&S. I really like your content. Regularly go back to view older videos.
Oh snap.. you went with the EXACT parts I’m leaning toward for my 103”.. ???s incoming.. did you have it tuned? Don’t care about #s, but curious if the power band is similar to what gixxerfoo showed, for the 222, on his cam vid.. does it run cooler with the good pump? I’m in TX and mine runs hot.. last, how long have you had it done? If the “honeymoon” phase has worn off, would you do it all again?
@@bullast2046 The power band is pretty much exactly what he talked about. Power comes on around 2,600 RPM and keeps on pulling. Personally, I don't get up much beyond 4,800 RPM so I don't know how far it will pull. I did have it tuned on a dyno with Powervision directly into the system. No external tuner needed. Now has 94hp with 113 pounds of torque. The S&S pump definitely helps with moving oil at idle so it helps with cooling, but I think adding an UltraCool fan assisted oil cooler and the FLO billet oil filter this spring is what keeps my 103 cool. I did the cam and chest last year. YES, I would definitley do this again.
@@michaelbucci9196 I appreciate the feedback from an actual user.. nothing against gixxer (I like him) but a creator can say whatever.. I run a PowerVision with Target Tune.. it runs 18mm wide band O2 sensors that I think will prohibit me from adding an [oil cooler] adaptor.. not sure.. anyway, thanks again.. be safe
Replace it all while ur in the engine! Can definitely save u some headaches down the road! Literally. 😂
I couldn't agree more! I did that on my 2005 Harley Fatboy Stage II upgrade - for peace-of-mind while on the road and because labor is expensive enough that putting in more parts during the upgrade seems to be cheaper than having mechanics do things twice. Did a 11,000-mile ride around North America last summer, with no mechanical issues (but several other electrical issues).
That's the only answer👍🇺🇲
He always makes a lot of sense. This is a great channel!
New cam and lifters always. Also big believer in changing out things that are accessible while the bike is apart.
Replaced everything in my cam case on my 88” when I went in there for tensioners. Updated to hydraulic tensioners with an S&S .510 cam kit w/oil pump assembly.
Huge difference in the 88”
I reused my stock lifters in my M8 but it only had 13k miles when we put in a Zippers cam in my 107”. Runs great with 33K on it now. I probably was a lucky one. Really enjoy your content and this was very good. Thanks much.
Fueling made it too easy with a full cam plate and cam kit to not just go that route.
Admittedly when I swapped cams last year after having to replace the stock tensioners. I reused my lifters, but they were also in good condition.
That being said the engine is getting a full teardown this winter and will get the Hammer Performance Treatment. I'm replacing the bottom end with Feuling's Camchest Kit.
So, it's not going to be that way for long. Would've addressed it before. But that's where I needed this video a year ago. lol Thanks for the info Gixx!
If someone does not want to replace any metal part that has the level of impact with another metal part, such as the cam/lifter impact action, that person is foolish and will only find themselves returning to whoever did the work to now do it again, but correctly!
my opinion has been and still is " If it ain't broke don't fix it. Ive got an almost stock 103ho that will burry the speedo . most people wont want to go faster than that and when i do have to rebuild,and its comming up ( almost 100k now) ill build back to specs and get another 80k. of course my bike is my only vehicle and so i take pretty good care of it.
I have been going through your channel's content for several months, and I just wanted to complement you on your short, informative format and great use of visual aids. Do you research the photos online, are they yours, or do they come from personal, industry contacts?
Also, the first video of yours of that I watched talked about the success of the Evo engine and its value today. I sold a 2018 Street Bob last year, a huge sacrifice in a moment of crisis, and am now looking at '96-'98 Electra Glides (a lot of resources were put into the Street Bob to make it a more passenger friendly touring bike) as a way to avoid a monthly payment and still get a reliable bike. I'd love to see more Evo content.
New cam, new lifters, new pushrods, new oil pump, new chain. Its all apart, I'm not risking anything with an old part that I didn't replace. I've done a couple LS motors and if I'm touching a part and removing it, a new one is going in.
I've always changed the lifters when I do the cam.
Rollers lifters are usually pretty bullet proof, however, I elected to change them out with some CompCam versions. It's really not that much more cash. If I'm changing stuff, I like to replace the supporting parts as well. Having it all new, you can't go wrong.
Yes definitely change out the lifters if you are going to do any up grading on the cams !!!!!! That’s a no brained for me …
As a mechanic for the last 45 years, I would never replace a cam and reuse lifters, always go with new ones, it's good insurance, used lifters will eventually cause issues.
A lot of builders prefer the oem Johnson B lifters because they are quiet and dependable, plus most come from the same manufacturer anyway and slap a different name on them. If they look worn, replace them, if not, run them, pending lowish mileage of course. If I put a Johnson B and Fueling lifter on the table, you'd have no idea which one was which. I've run Fueling and S&S, both have served me well.
You're already digging around in there, so you might as well do the lifters. I went a little further and installed new push rods and valve springs also.
I changed cams , lifters and push rods in my twin cam 103 2012 wide glide.
NO question... I put a 525 fueling cams in mind do it all oil pump, lifters, cam plate, adjustable pushrods only make sense. I say it's money well spent...
Some of the best information as usual! Let’s see a video adjusting the pushrods.
Parts wear together so I definitely would be changing out all associated parts with new.
I put 255 cams, upgraded bearings, FP3 tuner at 30K, now have 80K and no issues!
Close inspection is the key!
Don't be cheap. You're in there anyway so upgrade anything that could possibly fail. Well, as much as you can afford anyway. Like Gixx says it's cheap insurance. S&S for me.
In my 2020 114, the stock lifters went bad and ate my cam at 8000 miles... most builders consider the HD lifters to be garbage. After I had S&S lifters installed with a new stock cam, my bike ran much better. It revved higher and ran much smoother. If I had to open up my cam chest for any reason, I would change them out. Good insurance :-)
Good video as usual.
In for a dime...in for a dollar, I always say. I had a new motor done months back. Sat with the service writer. Had a conversation that if your in there do the belt, all motor bushings, alternator. Any thing that could screw up. Replace it now.
After all 85 k on a drive belt and your doing bushings. No brainer. Rides and handles like new. Besides where you gonna get a new flh for 8 grand!
My bikes are both stock (Evo 72 and 103 Fatboy), but if I were to upgrade cams, I would replace the lifters after hearing your thoughts.
Evo 72?
@@karlc8808 Evo motor, Model 72 Sportster
I had a s&s 475 cam installed and replaced lifters and lifter cuffs , etc
No! I would never dream of adding new cam/cams without installing new lifters.
I have always been told you should replace all stuff if your putting cam it will cheaper to do that like you said
I did the “leave it” technique. Didn’t pan out for me. Reaper cam beat the old lifter down in about a month. Wish I would done it then.
I reused my stock liters when I changed my stock cam to a Screaming Eagle 255, I feel that they were compatible as the 255 cam is not a radicle cam. The 103 runs as smooth as silk with good acceleration
$350.00 for a set of knight prowler tappets is peace of mind when the tach is pushing through 4500 rpms
Do it all at once to avoid the headache later on.
I get all that harley stuff out of the motor. Cams, lifters, cam plate and tensioners, oil pump, push rods. Start fresh
I am a believer that new cam means new lifters. I see reuse of the lifters if its a very low mileage engine. But I will still get new ones.
Which lifters do you like for Evo.. Andrews 23 cam, mild upgrades??
As always great video Mr foo
Great channel. Been watching for a long time. Question. 2014 heritage with close to 30,000. Bike runs flawlessly, but Recently notice a small leak at the rear of the rocker box. I'm thinking of going stage 2 with woods tw-222, (lifters and bearings also of course). Would you use the same push rods while I have it opened and use the savings of adjustable rods and use that cash toward cam plate. Any suggesting is greatly appreciated. Keep up the great work. Best
Do it right the first time: buy once, cry once!
While you are in there when in doubt change it out.
Stage 2: always PRs, lifters & injectors 2:1….unless maybe you’re doing slip on stage 2 with a brand new bike but you’re in there & you gotta do the PRs and…..
Well GixxerFoo an others. My current twin cam has 30,000mls on it an when I just did my cam swap to the woods 222 I replaced very single thing in the cam chest. Chains,sprockets,tensioners,barrings, o rings,oil pump, cam plate, cams, lifters an rods. I ride my bikes long distance an don’t want any failure. After all the up grades together Iv done it runs an sounds marvelous an pulls like a beast.
Change cam and lifters. It started in the car days too. And new bearings. My 99. I did it all at 40,000km
New lifters every time gets my vote!
Great info.
Camshafts and lifters go hand in hand. If your spending time and money to cam swap your bike, spend the extra money and get them both. Even if they've been replaced you should replace them again. This isn't a small block V8 you only have two cylinders don't cut any corners when it comes to internal parts.
Go for a complete kit. When it's all complete, your wife will never know where the money went :)
I suggest pinning an inner cam bearing warning since many noobs don't know HD fucked that up TWICE, the first time on Evos and the second using INA bearings on Twinkies. If you can hear new noise from a timing chest, stop and find the cause.
Don't forget to replace the crankcase oil screen either. Once they're clogged, the oil flow goes to crap...and they're cheap to buy.
do it right, cams, lifters, valve springs, push rods, throttle body, oil pump, port and polished heads, bearings, balanced S&S crank. 😊
A few months ago I asked you what cams would be good torque cam all the way through on my 2016 fxdls with a 110. You gave me 2 woods cam. Can you tell what cams would be good from s+s or andrews etc. that pulls all the way through. Thanks
I installed the rocker lockers in my 04 road king about 2 years ago, was that a mistake?
I like Jim’s cams
New lifters for sure! Don't be cheap, or pay the price down the road...
Seems like there's never time and money to do it right, but there's always time and money to do it again.
Evolution forever!!!!
I have changed cams on my shovelhead , evo , and twin cam and have always changed lifters and inner cam bearings . I think this is cheap insurance .
10:46
If the lifter scores the lifter block shouldn't you hone it out before putting in new lifters?
have you seen a plastic cuff fail? My tuner who builds HD engines all day hasn't. He has had plenty of people bring their engines in with snapped off cuff bolts.
This is what I'm hearing too, no real history of failure. They may only be a problem with a crazy high lift cam but otherwise a non issue.
If you wanna be cheap when hot roddin your bike , then leave it stock, until few hundred bucks more is doable,
Always upgrade every part, that’s being upgraded.
I just bought a 2002 Road King twin cam 88. For future resale value, do you think I should build it up to a 98 or leave it stock? Let me know what you think.
Thanks, Mike.
Great show replace your lifters do right DARK HORSE CRANK WORKS will do your cases on your Twin Cam and M 8 😊
I did change my lifters on my twin cam 103 HO with Andrews 57 h cams. Problem with twin cams is not the lifters, it’s Harley assanign design that has lifter bore in the case that can’t be replaced like a shovel or evo 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
I replaced cam, cam bearing, lifters, pushrods and updated oil pump. Then one of the replacement lifters failed. Shit happens!
Always over replace, parts when upgrading!! Always!!
Eh, low miles on roller lifters, should be fine. Twin cams actually use GM 5.7 vortec lifters, so they’re pretty cheap to change out
😎👍
Big thumbs up for the channel...
Woods 555 on a 96 stock camchest and lifter other then fuelmmoto cam guides over 20k still pulling like a freight train
Are they expensive?
New cam; new lifters!!
As a practice, new camshafts, new lifters. Power costs money. Doesn't make sense to try and cheap out here. The OEM lifters are adequate quality. I would prefer installing new aftermarket lifters from a reputable company.
Feeling, Andrew's, S&S, Zippers.
Also, while in the catches, install new, upgraded cam bearings(Twin Cam).
I'm not a fan of the cheap, stock oil pump/plate, and will factor in a good quality, aftermarket camplate/oil pump assembly.
NO S/E parts for me. JMO.
Oh, NTM new hydraulic tensioners.
I am aware this adds substantial cost to a cam swap, but doing do, lessens catastrophic failure, due to a weak link in the chain of related parts.
Being older now, my priorities have definitely changed.
Aloha! 🤙🙂🤙
If new cam put new lifter's period. The cam that hit that lifter is used to the old ramp , put a steep ramp on there kiss it goodbye
Can I get you to work on my Bike!? I’ll bring it to you bro.
I think I'm going to sell my Streetglide & get a 1200 Sportster since I don't go on long rides or trips anymore due to a bad back & I'm gonna call it quits.
I changed my cams at 40000 mls new lifters no brainer, my question is, is it better to use solid push rods or adjustable?
Some users have broken adjustables but that's rare. I always run adjustables because they're extremely convenient for maintenance. They worked fine from 1903 until the Evo engines but non-adjustable pusrods reduce factory assembly time. HDs BTW are NOT "premium" motorcycles in any internal mechanical sense. What they are is very easy to work on thanks to maintaining the key features of their pre-WWII engine designs. HD made many cost reduction changes (including bad ones like INA cam bearings) that are of zero benefit to owners.
New cam eagles new lifters because once they are mated they are mated
Why would you not change everything in the value train? Just get a camchest kit and be done with it!
If I remember correctly, one should replace the stock EVO lifters, regardless.
The value train on a Harley is critical to performance. Just save yourself a lot of time and money and talk to the manufacturers.
A lot of Stock Harley ignition systems cut out before 6000 rpm, so a cam that makes power in the 6500 rpm range you would never see.
30 year old stock motor with a EV27 cam swap, you'd have rocks in your head to skimp on a set of lifters.
New cam gets new lifters every time! You don't put your dirty socks back on after you wash your feet, do you?
Are you sure???
Because when building a motor for an old Chevy....
You Have To, break in the cam and lifters...
2000rpm for Twenty minutes on the very first start up.....
And a few years ago, there was a dramatic decline in quality of after market lifters in the performance automotive side of things.....
Harley is on borrowed time because of stupid prices.
That's because, any HD past an EVO is junk.
I'm thinking that if you have a 07& up twin cam or a M8 not only changing lifters you should take every precaution - change oil pump & plate lifter cuffs lifters & cam just to be safe as possible just don't forget 07 & up TC & M8 you have the worst engines out there !
Replace lifters. These moving parts burnish themselves as a functioning system. Introducing one new part is very risky. Save up and get it all first.
I disagree about the plastic lifter cuffs. There has been very little documented about failures, Also the LS enines produced by Checy that make 1000 hp or ore use plastic lifter cuffs with no issue.
Seems just plain stupid not to change lifters that have worn in to a cam over years.
I thought I could run my old non-roller tappets on anything?
Haha jk. Listen Foolio’s,, change your lifters every time you change a camshaft. These are brand new parts that are coming into contact for the first time with each other. Feuling and SS sets are cheap af. It’s best management practice, and good insurance. Think about changing your camp plate and oil pump while you’re in there too. Obviously, don’t forget to change the cam bearing.. Stop trying to squeeze pennies! Don’t cheap out!
I have a 2008 king, and I was going to get a kit over single parts, or im not doing it at all. Damn Bidenomics killed my upgrade money.
Yeah, killed my upgrade money too
ALWAYS swap in new lifters with a new cam. PERIOD.
Are you fkn kidding no new lifters on a cam swap?? You might as well take a mean chorizo burrito crap and do not wipe just get up pull your pants up and go to work?? See how you feel by noon? Uh... should have done the new lifters!😮
Just like Oprah and the all u can eat buffet, they just go together.😂
Hello my name is Richard I have had problems with my compensator in my 20 16th street line Motor is completely stock what about a dark horse Compensator eliminator Or Baker compensator
Which is best Some people say the eliminator is bad news
Dark horse
Go with a DARK HORSE one and done BAKER is a lot better but they have been known to brake too Best of luck 👍
Thanks for the tip