Trying to Make Sense of Doom 2's Maps - An Interpretation
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- čas přidán 26. 06. 2024
- Doom 2's maps may appear nonsensical, detached and overall just strange. But what if they had an actual story to tell?
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• Recreating DOOM Levels...
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Thanks for goin' through hell.
0:00 Intro
1:45 Entryway
2:52 Underhalls
4:56 The Gantlet
5:49 The Focus
6:22 The Waste Tunnels
8:30 The Crusher
10:46 Dead Simple
11:11 Tricks and Traps
13:18 The Pit
14:57 Refueling Base
16:25 Circle of Death
18:08 The Factory
20:08 Downtown
22:27 The Inmost Dens
23:08 Industrial Zone
24:21 Wolfenstein
25:01 Grosse
26:07 Suburbs
27:52 Tenements
29:43 The Courtyard
30:29 The Citadel
31:47 Gotcha!
33:09 Nirvana
34:17 The Catacombs
34:45 Barrels of Fun
35:31 The Chasm
37:08 Bloodfalls
39:12 Monster Condo
41:14 The Spirit World
42:30 The Living End
44:37 Icon of Sin
47:11 Epilogue - Hry
Here's some notes on the maps that didn't make it into the video, for one reason or another.
In general: zombies and even Revenants are almost always stand-ins for any and all mutated/ zombified humans, either soldiers or civilians. I feel like Imps are also meant to be humans in certain maps, like in Suburbs, due to the similar size and structure. Maybe the Imps in the Crusher are former inmates.
Someone also pointed out that the first 11 maps likely ALL take place in the starport, so I guess there are a couple fewer city levels in the game after all. I don't think it changes the fact that Entryway is an airport/ train station, Underhalls is a subway system and so on. Only the Waste Tunnels aren't regular apartment buildings, I suppose. Though, maybe that's where the personnel lives, similar to the shacks at the beginning of Half-Life: Blue Shift. Would also mean that the Crusher isn't a prison after all, but a waste treatment facility of the starport or something.
Refueling Base: the hole in the ceiling might have not been there originally. The floor is filled with ash, indicating something went wrong there, and the walls and the rim of the holes are also using the pebbles textures, implying it's broken. I still think the original intention for the map before it was cut from Doom 1 was how I described it in the video however.
The Factory: the map is filled with Arachnotrons and Mancubi, which could imply this is where they're made, as they're a blend of organic material and machines. Doomguy probably went there to halt their production. This also makes the place more horrifying, as it means that humans were already willingly creating demon-machine-hybrids on EARTH, long before Doom 2 even took place.
This could also mean that the "vehicles" getting refueled in the Refueling Base are the Arachnotrons.
Suburbs: the entrails in the red brick house might not be human ones, but again insinuate that the building is now alive and you're walking inside of it. So the humans weren't just stuffed inside of it, but were EATEN by the house.
The Citadel: the small shack you spawn in front of is likely connected to the sewers, as that's how you exited the Courtyard. Nice bit of consistency there.
The Spirit World: the final climb shows the mountain is made up of different materials. There's dirt, ash, rocks, pebbles, etc. This could be another hint towards how old this part is, that you're walking on different layers of sediment and rock.
Icon of Sin: it was always strange to me that the walls are not blood, but acid, especially since the other textures are smeared with blood. However, it's possible that it's meant to be stomach acid, almost as if you're literally walking through someone's decaying body, perhaps the Icon of Sin's original one. Or considering that the floor is covered in brown liquid, maybe it's... something else. Literally the most vile place on earth, in that sense.
Check out "hell on earth starter pack" some of the theories and idea you present on the video are shown in some of the maps.
If Entryway is a station... doesn't it make sense it's for the passenger starships? You mentioned it being similar to train stations or airports - why would starship travel look much differently? There's entrance, baggage claim, and waiting area. The exit could be some kind of internal tram system used by the employees for moving around the starport area (I mean, it's to the side in a small door - it makes sense it's probably not the main way to leave for the passengers.)
Also if the Crusher isn't a regular prison, it could be holding cells for prisoners being transported off-world.
We know some criminals serve their sentence in space - for example that's exactly what happened to Doomguy at beginning of Doom 1, you were sent to Mars as punishment for assaulting a superior officer.
There could still be the concept of it being waste disposal - perhaps the prisoners are just forced labor. I mean, I think saying that the crusher isn't really a crusher, when the level is explicitly titled "Crusher" is reaching a bit.
Even if the first 11 levels are all "Starport" themed, I like the idea of some of the levels occasionally having nearby neighborhoods or houses leaking through as it helps give the game more civilian areas than there actually are. You could nitpick about why UAC facilities reside near the suburbs but then I would ask what makes you think they wouldn't do that.
i like to think some green liquids in doom games are baron blood
Doom 2: Keeping Atari's "Please just imagine the game makes sense" dream alive.
More like "Our engine can't handle that shit"
@@KudoRedfox Our engine couldn't handle it, we didn't know how to implement it, and we had no time to sit and brainstorm any alternatives.
After all, there's some _brilliant_ megawads that work entirely under vanilla constraints.
@@DinnerForkTongueThe wad creators of today also don't have to make sure their maps can run on a 386 with 4MB of RAM.
@@glitchedoom On the contrary. The limitations you're mentioning are covered in the most basic complevels, and there are plenty of wads that don't extrapolate the Doom engine in any way, such as Stickney Installation and TNT Revilution.
@@glitchedoom They can also see what they're working on, while they're working on it.
New community project: Doom 2 The Way GermanPeter Did
Those edits to the map to illustrate your interpretations are really neat!
Thank you!
Count me in! I actually lately have a big trouble making maps cause i dont know what and how to build lmao, but given what i should build and with pre existing base i would def come up with some good looks for some first maps, casue i suck with bigger maps
@@aurorafox1283 If someone starts a project like that on Doomworld, I might join :D
I would like to join if that's ever a thing
Dang it, now you got the machinery in my head running. XD
Map07 is a starport for the ships you use to evacuate the surviving humans. The game says this and if you use your imagination you can think of the gore switch as a former landing station for ships and cargo.
Yeah, I can see that! And again, VERY small compared to how big it should really be :D
@GermanPeter yeah it is pretty tiny considering what it is. Maybe those walls aren't even walls, though. They could just as well be boarding made by the humans in a last-ditch effort to escape the hordes of demons. The gore switch also resembles a fountain or shrine of sorts, which does fit with hells religious themes.
This is reiterated by Doom 2's manual, which isn't exactly canon since it acts the doomguy in Doom 2 isn't the same one as Doom 1 but whatever.
DOOM 2: HELL ON EARTH
-------------------------------
THE STORY CONTINUES...DOOM II: Hell on Earth
Back at last. After days of hard fighting in space, you've
returned home on well-earned leave. You're one of Earth's
crack soldiers, hard-bitten, tough, and heavily-armed. When
the alien invasion struck Mars, you were the first on the
scene. By killing, killing, and killing, you won. You
stopped the invasion, saved Mars base, and became a war
hero. What they don't talk about so much is that you were
the only survivor.
But that's all behind you now. You've quit the
military, and are heading home. Your drop pod lands with a
crunch. You open 'er up and look out. Damn! The city ahead
is on fire. What the devil is going on? You stagger
forward, clutching at your sidearm. Packs of refugees are
fleeing the flaming metropolis. A band of them shriek in
terror. You squint. What's that? Someone is attacking the
refugees. You rush up and blast away, killing the
troublemaker. It looks like a human but something's wrong.
His mouth is filled with half-chewed flesh, and he's all
messed up, like a zombie from a bad horror movie. Hell, not
again!
You can feel it. It's all starting again, just like on
Mars. First, people are taken over, turned into cannibal
Things. Then the real horror starts, the deformed
monstrosities from Outside. But now it's on Earth!
It turns out that the invaders are all over. Monsters
range from Tokyo to Timbuktu, from Stockholm to Scranton.
Billions are dead. Some people have been transformed into
flesh-eating mutants, but a few, a very few, are still
alive and fully human. The wise men of humanity have
evolved a plan to save what's left of the human race. They
have built enormous ships to carry the remaining people
into space, safely away from the ruined world.
Unfortunately, Earth's only ground spaceport has just
been taken over by the demons. They've instituted a sort of
force field -- a flame barrier -- over the port; no ships
can land or take off. You gotta go back into action. The
pathetic remnants of Earth's soldiers are making an assault
on the invaders at the spaceport. If you win, you might be
able to turn off the barrier, so that the ships can leave,
and Homo sapiens may not go extinct just yet. If you lose,
that's it. Humanity is history.
You and your comrades make their attack. Soon, brave
men drop like flies. You lose track of your friends, though
sometimes you can hear them scream when they die, and the
sounds of combat echo from deep within the starbase.
Something hisses with rage from the steel tunnels
ahead. They know you're here. They have no pity, no mercy,
take no quarter, and crave none. They're the perfect enemy,
in a way. No one's left but you. You...and Them.
Imagination gap is a thing I kinda miss in games. Sometimes it can be horrific
Sometimes imagination is more unsettling than realistic graphics.
17:45 "House of Leaves"... "Creepy"... "My House"...
I see what you did there... :D
You can CLEARLY hear his smile when he says "My House" hahaha!
That part caught me off guard, it was like he my recited my sleeping agent code lol
@@xandergonzo4853 That mod is going to cause permanent trauma in the doom community isn't it.
@@shingshongshamalamaIt already has to me D:
That physically hurt me
21:07 My theory about the arrow is that it was indeed drawn by other people to attract other survivors before the city got overrun. Perhaps the brick house/storage used to serve as some sort of safehouse for people in the city when the invasion began.
The crusher in The Crusher could just be a garbage masher in the detention level
Edit: The flashing lights could be due to safety concerns with prisoners "accidentally" getting crushed, so they installed flashing lights to avoid responsibility, like, "hey, if you're flashing, move out of the way," or something.
Edit 2: I also think that the Courtyard is some sort of human fort that was turned into a museum that was then assimilated by Hell. With the starting room being some sort of gift shop with a bathroom in the exit and the Citadel being an extension of the fort (technically the opposite) but not being adapted for a museum. The people and security retreated to the Citadel for safety, but got overwhelmed by the demonic hordes.
The Courtyard definitely feels like something I've visited in real life once, it's so strange. I can absolutely see the museum theory, to be honest.
The rubble would explain why the buildings are so short. There is much debris and rubble that it is covering the rest of the buldings and streets. We can only see skyscrapers popping out
Perhaps the "O of Death" is a destroyed reactor? Could explain it being a 'heart of the starbase'
The custom decors to make the point more clear are adorable and a Lot of the mind cannon is Really clever and creative, i can see a version that leans on It like extermination day or Doom 2 re-built
I'd really love a mod that just mildly modifies the original maps instead of coming up with its own designs. The "Hell on Earth starterpack" for Brutal Doom absolutely burned me. It looks fantastic, but plays terribly. Form over function in almost every way.
@@GermanPeter extermination day is basically a remake of hell on earth that looks and plays a Lot better, not recomended to play with vanilla weapons tho. I highly recomend E1 remaster and Doom 2 re-built, this mods (all tho just demos) basicaly redesign the levels to be more detailed while keeping the original flow, great for testing New gameplay mods
@@GermanPeter Maps of Chaos and also Ultimate Doom 2 are something you should play.
@@GermanPeterI'd recommend looking at "HontE Remastered", a (weirdly named) Russian mod that does a lot of what you're describing. It uses ZDoom/UDMF features to give the original geometry an environmental storytelling-rich makeover. Heck, Map33 (Betray) from the XBox Doom 3 version is even there.
@@GermanPeterYou should definitely check out "HontE Remastered", a Russian mod that gives the original geometry a complete makeover with tons of ZDoom/UDMF features and a lot of environmental storytelling. Everything still looks surreal as hell, but has a strengthened sense of "placeness", if you get what I mean.
(Also, CZcams kept removing past iterations of this comment, for some reason. Sorry if there's duplicates for whatever reason.)
Your interpretation of The Abandoned Mines is really interesting and reminds me a lot of ULTRAKILL's Prelude levels, which take place in an abandoned industrial facility implied to have been made explicitly for excavating hell and processing the dug-up raw material, but became overtaken by hellish creatures and overflown with blood and gore
Also kinda funny that you bring up the motif of hell not being able to make anything of its own but preferring to take and distort things in the human world since that's also a thing in ULTRAKILL, where you've got layers of hell full of earthly monuments and demons that are big amalgamations of stone statues of humans filled with flesh
43:54 Davroth really screwed up the place when the Maykr sealed him in Jekkad
I love videos like this that use some imagination! It's fun to theorize about what these abstract but vaguely building-shaped objects actually represent.
Considering the limitations of the tools that the team was using at the time (no texture auto align, no visual mode, having to recompile nodes every time a map was altered, etc) as well as the tight deadlines, I feel like they did a decent enough job. I've made vanilla-compatible maps that look way more like a city than anything in Doom 2 without custom art, but it took me a month in Ultimate Doom Builder, and these guys were making 32 maps using much less advanced tools in the span of just a few months.
At some point, I've considered making a realistic looking MAP09 remake with a patio in the middle called Petersen's Institute of Technology. There are some freaky-looking college campuses in the world, I've visited a couple that don't seem to follow euclidean geometry.
I once heard a take on the Wolfenstein maps that go like this: The entire castle is some sort of purgatory made for the pee babies where they get tortured not by demons but the Blazkowics family, meaning that those levels aren´t exactly on earth and they´re just an other layer on hell.
the map 15 End of Level Message (Secret Exit) mentions this:
" Congratulations, you've found the secret level! Looks like it's been built by humans, rather than demons. You wonder who the inmates of this corner of Hell will be. " turns out it's full of SS and it's a copy of Castle Wallenstein. time to solve your ancestors nightmares.
So both the demons & the pee babies are being tortured there?
It's explicit that the castle is from hell, but given how hell is coming out onto Earth it's not totally clear what dimension the player is in at the moment, although all things considered it doesn't really matter because you go back to Earth either way after leaving the castle.
Also, it's not purgatory. Purgatory is for repentant souls suffering temporary torment before going to heaven. These are nazis. They are in hell.
But I love the idea that their torment is to get fragged by Blazkowicses for all eternity xD
This is so fun. It feels like you're looking into a Tom Hall's Doom 2.
10:37 The waste treatment facility theory explains its proximity to the Waste Tunnels
That was my initial thought, too! But like the Factory, there's little waste actually being treated, except perhaps for the Revenant room and the final chamber.
9:31
The Crusher™ reminds me of one of the execution methods used in the Salem witch trials. The one I'm thinking of has you laying down with a board on you, then they add the stones to press down on you until death.
A lot of the abstraction of these locations can also come down to demonic terraformig corrupting the environment, making it less clear what these places are/were.
A lot of the hell levels in the Nu Doom games follow the same sort of rule, especially in Doom 2016.
Random thought I had: With humans going to hell and so, perhaps the old-style structures built in the relatively older parts of hell are simply from humans from an older period who were brought over, using their old architectural styles and skills in hell. In a sense, maybe hell is having a 'technological revolution' by the time DOOM takes place thanks to finally, enough people from the modern era dying to bring over their own knowledge of technology, perhaps being what created the technology for the invasion in the first place.
I like that idea. It's not exactly implausible for human-born demons to infight, break off and say "sod this, I'm doing things my way".
Actually, that would make total sense considering the differences in bestiary from Doom 1 to 2. In Doom 1 all of the bestiary is comprised of old soldiers from hell, see how all of them (that are not zombies) are "natural", imps, pinkies, cacodemons, lost souls, they all seem to be normal creatures, fighting with what they are born with, teeth, muscle, or powers of shooting energy from their hands or mouth, the only monsters that break this mold are the two bosses, probably because they are the first to have human technology used to enhance their powers, and is because of that they are even bosses, hell is very confident in them that they are mostly seen without much reinforcement when waiting to battle Doomguy.
But in Doom 2 we see fodder demons using human technology, probably because is the only way to make them useful in the armies of hell, mancubi without the cannons are too slow and big to do anything, revenants are too weak and disarmed, arachnos too much stationary, but because of human technology these creatures are now equal if not more powerfull to the traditional elite like Barons, Pinkies and Cacos.
And there's the Icon of Sin that is the ultimate embodiment of this philosophy of taking from the humans, a demon that has completely made his body into a wall of human technology mixed with flesh, hoping to make him more powerful, and while Romeros head is just a joke maybe it could symbolize the envy the demons have over humans, the Icon, one of the most powerful creatures of hell, trying to look and speak like a human within himself, trying to mimic the thing that demons don't have and rely solely on humans to give them, life, and all the perks that comes with it like ingenuity, determination, passion and hope.
Maybe the demons don't hate humans, but want desperately to feel what we feel, but they are never going to, so they steal what they can from us.
What if Dead Simple is actually the rooftop of Tricks and Traps? And when you exit the level the floor caves in and you fall into the next level as sugested by the hole in the ceilling. I'd argue that Tricks and Traps was an ordinary warehouse with an aircraft pad ontop of it (likely dead simple) which got corrupted by hells power.
Waste tunnels is a defunct prison, with guard towers and prison cell blocks, hence the glowing arrows in the basement area
Ohh that's also possible!
Ngl iv never thought of some of the moving platforms and doors and “elevators” as rubble breaking either under you or you tearing thru it but honestly I like that interpretation rather than just some random floor peice moving down or a random secret door it’s you breaking into places to find secreted and progressing. Idk I like that interpretation cause the idea of doom guy tearing down walls to find secret goods sounds fun
Gotcha! always gave me the feeling of jumping across the rooftops of builldings or structures. Like, the world has gradually filled with blood, and your 'last stand' on Earth is on the highest possible ground you can find.
God, that's even more horrifying than all the other buildings having been leveled. Imagine having to jump around on the rooftops of skyscrapers just to get around because the rest of the city is FILLED WITH BLOOD.
Everyone makes fun of the arrow until they realize other games like portal also does the same with arrows on walls, because playtesters didn't knew how to continue through the level.
I think the Doom 2 arrow gets clowned on because there’s no in-world explanation for it. A better example of an arrow in a Doom game is in Map 12 of Doom 64, where it seems like it’s just a rock, but on the auto map you can see that it’s actually a crude arrow pointing to a secret.
There's also the arrow made by armor shard on Doom's e1m6, that leads to a secret with an automap.
I think there's also an arrow on Slough of despair? e3m2 (but that arrow is only viewable through automap, as they used the sector as a wall, instead of being walkable)
Either way I like peter's idea of being rocks put in there by survivors.
I would had taken a more subtle approach, like a texturelump, where the arrow is drawn or grafitted on top the wall, or straight up redesign the layout, so the entrance is in front of the wall, and not on the side, but once again, they didn't had doom builder like we had to autoalign textures and trial/error things on the fly.
@@thekingslayer2178
i'm not sure what this kind of content is called. it reminds me of stuff i think about before i fall asleep. keep it up
I call it theorycrafting, even if it may be incorrect.
My ideas about downtown
I don't understand why people hate arrow so much, because arrows and map plans used in real life to show exits. That could be another sense of arrow: showing location of evacuation center, and it's not just little sign on wall so people can actually see it
Area you get "climbed" to from there could be vent system, and that building with just rocket launcher on pad and pinky trap could be meeting room, with pad being table
17:50 house of leaves ref
It would've been nice if there were fan-made map screens for chapters 1 to 4 of Doom II to go with the traditional Doom trilogy map screens. One for the Star Base, one for the Haunted Heart, one for the City and one for Hell.
There are! There's also an intermission map for Thy Flesh Consumed as well. Go look them up, they're great! Your mileage may vary on how well they fit into the art style of the original intermission maps, though.
Love putting this video on the background, especially when i’m working out, it’s great for that because of all the STRETCHING YOU DO!!!!
Grate video btw
I've interpreted the large stretches of gray bricks that surround MAP15 as barricades created by humans to protect from the invasion, but the plan failed because the demons came crashing down from the sky by using that big wooden structure, which created a rift across the barricade zone, which split the humans into two groups and made it easier to capture.
The big water area would be the water supply, using my theory.
Man, your explanations are so good! I especially like the one about Dead Simple. I always thought the walls coming down after defeating the Mancubi is just a game gimmick to reveal another challenge, but your explanation of the place crumbling because of the battle is so much better. It could also be that the Arachnotrons are reinforcements that break through the walls, but yeah, I never thought of these maps in this realist kinda way. Amazing video.
If I were to add lore about John Romero's head in the game, I would add that he was some sort of former military commander, but despite his best efforts he lost his life to the demons, and due to his intelligence, they want to use it for evil, the reason why Romero wanted to be killed, is so that not just the Doom Slayer to get him out of his misery, but to destroy the heart of all evil, and save mankind for good, which might be difficult because he's not just any marine, but rather a friend.
So basically a self-insert
This is a best toughs flight I ever listened. Your imagination is great, beyound the measuring, and the ending, was unspeakable. Thanks you for that video
I grew up playing Doom 2 back in 2000. It was (and still is) one of my all-time favorite games. But I was sad to see years later that the majority of the fans didn't like Doom 2's maps but preferred Doom's. That's a discussion for another day though but in recent years, I did start to see the faults in Doom 2's maps, especially the middle ones taking place in the "City".
Watching this video, it felt like an eye-opening moment because what you're saying definitely makes sense. Thanks to this video, I can give the levels are more specific description rather than saying "the map with that thing and that other thing". Also, those illustrations/interpretation still images were neat. Great video!
I really like your interpretations and wish there was some kind of fan game or Mod showcasing what these Maps are "Actually" supposed to look like. I especially liked the idea of Doom Guy using the subway to move around at first.
Likewise, I also liked your interpretation of the secret Wolfenstein levels, with the heart on a pillar replacing a table in the original symbolizing how the Nazis trapped here have given up all pretenses of morality and are now fully embracing their monstrous ideology by torturing and killing humans and demons alike for their own twisted amusement.
There's definitely potential in combining Wolf3D and Doom themes in a more "serious" way. The analysis reminds me of my Doomworld Mega Project 2018 MAP12 submission, which repurposes a lot of Doom's skull-centric props as nazi decor and features some cannibalism-adjacent themes as well.
It'd definitely be awesome if the modern Doom games brought the Pee Babies back, but as zombies. Not as actual living corpses, but as creatures that are still very much human, but have completely lost their minds. That's how I interpret them in Doom at least. They've been stuck in hell for thousands of years, it's no wonder they eventually became insane.
If you want a very interesting look into what Hell on Earth may have been like, check out Abscission. Snaxalotl played around a lot with concepts similar to those Peter mentioned.
I LOVE this concept! This is basically what I did as a kid to try and contextualize the maps and construct a large interconnected journey out of them. Great work, you’ve done what my 8 year old self could never do!
Fascinating explanation for Icon of Sin. I know the text screen after says that it's indeed an actual demon that you "pump rockets into his exposed brain," but the idea that it's a creature long dead - or being kept on some kind of hellish life support - is a super interesting way to look at it. Gives some interesting thoughts into what the demons are trying to do, and why.
Also, the blue room in The Chasm actually representing a pool? I don't think I'll ever think of that room the same way again! Love the idea that it's part of a nuclear reactor.
I never thought about romero being one of the prime evils or something but its a genius way to fit that easter egg in the lore
Finally I can understand what these maps are. Nice video.
Wow I actually REALLY like your take on these. It'd be very cool to see your interpretations telegraphed more clearly in the game, as a mod
Man, this makes me wonder what the ID software team could've done if they had modern tools and sourceports back in the 90's.
You could always ask Romero. He's busy, but very chill and approachable.
As long as you don't thank him for Doom 3. 😂
I would love to see more of this. I loved this video!
This is the best Doom II lore video I've ever seen. Sure, it's your imagination most of the time interpreting these things, but it's filled with logic and reason. Totally changes the way I look at Doom II. Very well done, man.
Oh snap, thanks BigMacDavis! Means a lot coming from you :)
I've always considered the Icon of Sin to be a steampunk, or rather more closely a Giger-esque take on Dante's Inferno with a bit of Lovecraft thrown into the mix. In Dante's Inferno, Satan is frozen in time since the beginning of the time for committing the greatest sin in form of the treachery against the God itself. You'll notice that you haven't seen any demons with mechanical attachments before the Cyberdemon's introduction in Episode 2's end. They're very well stealing the man-made advancements in technology from the lost Deimos base, and have used it to convert the once condemned arch-angel into a demon spitting machine, cutting open his forehead to forcefully make him summon the armies of hell, keeping him alive on the mechanical enhancements that they've hooked him up on. While Doom guy was in hell during Episode 3, the demons used the technology that they've enhanced the Icon of Sin paired with the teleportation tech from the Deimos base to slingshot an invasion on Earth.
Which'll make sense why's he named the "Icon of Sin". He committed treachery against God, he's the embodiment of sin itself.
I like to imagine the city levels are located in Mesquite, TX.
I love when you say "pee babies"
Thank you. If I ever make a series of Doom, I'll keep this in mind.
This video was awesome. I liked your interpretation of the levels.
17:50 - I always read that texture as some kind of stucco, but that's an interesting idea.
On The Catacombs i always thought the secret at the start was the remains of another dead marine. Maybe he got caught in some sort of spike trap, thats what i always saw the things in the ceiling as, with his armor and (soul?) being left
That's so clever! I always wondered what those rods could mean!
And the Spectre ate up his body, leaving only his armor and soul behind!
The head on a stick was originally a result of people being frustrated with Romero, which might mean something, and consider that the icon is essentially telling you to kill it
i heard the theory that'd the demons somehow make reality look so abstract-building wise, not Just in Tricks and Traps, but ALL Earth-based maps. But seems to be a rare theory, as i never heard others say it. I wonder how valid it would considered.
Also, bro i fucking love your interpretation of the demons themselves. They keep their "queen bee" alive just to survive, they are so obsessed with Earth because they want their resources and "space". This is good stuff!
Around last year I attempted to remake every Doom II map until MAP10, to me MAP03 was a flooded boarding station for spaceships (I even added a crashed spacecraft and storage-moving thing in that big area with the blue card) and I always though that MAP09 was a residencial part of the UAC base that had been airstriked to oblivion
I hadn't even considered airstrikes! That makes sense, because Earth would try the most desperate of measures to get rid of the invading demons.
"MY resolution? AIRSTRIKES!"
Take away the water, and I always thought Underhalls felt like a subway system anyway. My head canon is that it's simply a flooded one.
Imagine a slightly altered set of maps that plays up the 'travelling via train' aspect 🤔
28:40 My first thought is that this is a fountain of some sort, and the soul sphere represents water visually and thematically, as maybe the only chance Doomguy has for a refreshing drink of water.
Hah! That's so cute, I love that idea.
I love this stuff! keep it up man, youre my fav
I like the idea that the Demons bring locations into hell, and that eventually older hell locations kind of converge together and decay, meaning they need to go and get more
ah, what a beautiful statement of interpreting the step on the light thing on level 1 as shortcircuiting the maintenance area with the rocket launcher. Amazing video !
Huh, I honestly assumed the Gantlet was just a failure to type Gauntlet this whole time
I'd definitely like to see a similar analysis of Doom 1 (which is my favorite in the series). But Tom Hall's Doom Bible already explains a lot of it.
Speaking of Tom Hall and the Doom Bible, it's interesting how closely Doom 3 sticks to most of its writings and Tom's vision.
Honestly if you take Romero's head seriously, I think that's supposed to be some sort of obsession the devil (or whoever icon of sin is supposed to be) has with God, wanting to be or become him however without the actual power (hence, the lack of a body)
28:55 what if he's actually using the rubble he got by digging to make a path?
You are a criminally under-subbed content creator. Amazing work, my man.
This is a very fun video, Germanic Petros.
This was an amazing point of view of the maps, it recontextualizes everything in a way I've never considered. I'll probably see and imagine things in your way the next time I play Doom 2
To be honest, with how creative and advanced Doom community mapping has gotten, it would be amazing to see a project inspired on this video!
16:00 the cyberdemon got pissed off playing call of duty and put a big hole in the drywall with his mighty fist
Amazing video!
Very cool video
Good job :)
Would love to see concept art of these interpretations
Great timing. I was just getting sucked back into my doom hyperfixation
Really digging these doom vids, Peter! Got a sub from me!
aka "trying to make sense of Sandy Peterson's antics!" lol jk he made Erebus, one of my favs... in Doom ONE. 😅
Hmmm map01 a train station? Funny enough the Doom novels reinterpreted "Gotchta" as similar, with Cybie and Spidey battling it out atop flatbed traincars.
love this video, i can see it becoming one that i come back to over and over! :)
here are a few points/questions i wish to raise in case you waste enuf time reading comments to see this:
--do you have any plans to do this for doom 1, doom 64, and/or final doom?- i forgot you said you might do doom 1 and final doom at the end of the video, whoops
-i dont think the pinkies in gantlet would be gnawing at the metal to get to you, since you can raise it again later. maybe this was just some form of trap set by the demons idk
-if map 7 is a prison, maybe the imps got imprisoned when hell initially broke loose but was still under a vague level of control. or maybe they got teleported there randomly rather than being sent deliberately by the icon of sin, similar to what leadhead suggests is happening with the xen aliens in the first half of hl1 (ik your pinned comment says the imps are former humans but i just dont see that tbh)
-considering the crusher is literally the namesake of the level, i cant imagine it being anything other than what it says on the tin. if the map is a prison, perhaps the crusher was a particularly gruesome execution method. i feel bad for whoever had to clean it for it to be in the state we see in the game (ie not littered with human remains)
-i dont think hell is actually in the depths of the earth in the doom canon, it's probably its own dimension/universe or at the very least a different planet - think about how they manage to get an entire moon to float above it. thatd be a rather tight fit for earth, and probably wipe out humanity. plus, if hell is underground then how the _hell_ is there a sky visible in so many of the maps that take place there? also the game is literally called doom ii: hell on earth. if hell was already on earth thatd be a bit redundant. unfortunately, this does render your explanation of bloodfalls completely impossible unless there was somehow already a portal to hell (or maybe this was the result of spear of destiny shenanigans, idk)
-just because the first 11 maps take place on a starport, that doesnt mean they cant also take place in a city or have plain apartment buildings. ppl could just build cities and apartment buildings like they did on earth. considering the amount of employees the uac probably needed in order to run all of their experiments, maintain their equipment, etc, i could see the starport having a community sort of like an even more morally-dubious version of a company town
-to me, dead simple looks like some kind of war memorial or smth. not quite sure why
-perhaps the reason downtown's skyscrapers look so short is actually because there is a metric fuckton of rubble essentially flooding the streets and/or demons have lopped off the higher portions of the buildings
I might do this for Doom 1, but not in the near future. This type of video takes A LOT of time and I don't have that at the moment.
Also, I do think it's possible for hell to be contained within the Earth, just as a pocket dimension. You've seen how warped everything gets when hell is near, so why wouldn't it have its own moon?
Even if I don't agree with a lot of what you described (in my view Hell can and does replicate human creation as much as it warps and corrupts it, in a fashion incomprehensible to us and maybe even itself), that's some prime time lore cooking you got going, Peter.
Would you be willing to also make these analysis for TNT? Now _that_ wad has a lot of environmental storytelling that you can extrapolate upon. And on a very selfish note, I'd love to see how your vision would match, or mismatch, the unofficial sequel to TNT and imho the most interesting play-around with human and hell technologies - *TNT Revilution.*
I couldn't even bear playing TNT (or Plutonia, I forgot which one) normally, so I dunno. It's just not well designed in my opinion.
@@GermanPeter Fair enough. Different folks, different strokes. Thanks for entertaining my post regardless of our differing opinions 😄
I always thought the citadel was a representation of doomguy's home, where the demons have demolished and built their own castle into the entrance of hell over it. A last ditch effort to break doomguy's mind and make him give up since the last thing he could call his own is gone.
But if the song Shawn's got the shotgun says anything, this was the last staw they broke. The last nerve they broke in this single marine they underestimated.
Doomguy is P I S S E D.
12:59 Camera man being harassed by imps
The focus, I always thought the room thingy near spawn was like burger joint counter but reception makes more sense lol
A burger joint! That's hilarious, but I can see it :D
In fact, I always interpreted it as a bank for some reason. It doesn't even work with the rest of the level, unless you consider the storage room as the vault.
@@GermanPeter UAC base could have in house stores/services like that, could work. Could be security check point like doom 3. I should replay it with this new lenses
@@GermanPeterI felt that those rooms are where bank tellers would be. There are even security barriers that can close in the event of a threat. At that point, they're just malfunctioning.
Love the videos! Keepem coming ^^
Will there maybe be a KOTOR I & II series one day?
Oh, no, I don't really care about those games. Sorry to disappoint, but thanks for the kind words :)
feels like it's been forever since your last video lol, happy to see a new video :]
ive never rly thought abt the enviroments of doom (1 or 2) that strongly, they always felt super gamey to me so i just assumed "oh it's a place that things happen in", but only 2 levels in and im already thinking "ooh, that's cool :0" i aught to do stuff like this myself sometime lol :]
edit: got to the end of the video now, damn, ending's some good shit lol. would love to see the ideas u presented here in a mod of some kind maybe, expounded upon
u mentioned not having an idea for Dead Simple and i think ive got one, though pretty simple - what if it's some kind of... ancient building? like one of those historical sites preserving a castle or fort from centuries ago? and the demons just took up shop since it was already literally a fortress. would also explain the brittleness of the place, an ancient structure like that would fall into decay very fast without upkeep (+ the battle going on inside)
What a wonderfully creative exercise! It almost makes me wish we got a remake where this interpretation of levels was rendered using the Doom Eternal engine, seeing as that game only uses part of Doom 2's plot before mashing in a bunch of other new elements. I find it interesting that you interpret the 'demons' as perhaps a literal underground race, akin to the Locusts from Gears of Wars - I myself always saw it more as a sign that the Earth was getting consumed and assimilated from inside into the Hell dimension. I do also think that, while the demons probably plundered and stole a lot from humanity, some of the 'primitive' structures might in fact have been built by them, at least by the more intelligent/humanoid entities such as the Arch-Viles - the Barons and Hellknights also seem to imply a possible aristocratic hierarchy, where the larger and crueler are entitled to dominate and torment lower beings (as indicated by infighting.) It's cool to consider the idea that, just as much as they may embody pure evil, the demons themselves live a miserable existence.
The interpretation of The Living End as a 'trip down memory lane' can be taken more literally as a form of mental manipulation - perhaps Doomguy's memories are being turned into physical reality in an attempt to disorient and slow him. If the game were more dramatically inclined, I could see Hell even recreating traumatic memories and perhaps conjuring demons in the forms of loved ones in order to torment and demoralize him.
Lastly, you can see the Icon of Sin as perhaps the source of all the fleshy and bony growths permeating the maps - it is described in the end text as an entity spanning many miles, which makes me think its true form and scale might resemble something like the Brethren Moons. I never liked how Doom Eternal went for the most uninspired interpretation of the Icon of Sin as just a big robot humanoid with a goat head, as I consider it to be something much more eldritch and alien.
Someone did point out that the Icon of Sin's limbs might be what we see in the Spirit World, so I can totally see that!
I almost cried at the part about Romero/Icon Of Sin's backstory, and I don't know why. I love this video.
had to go to a surgery but couldnt miss this
I feel like i heard somewhere that map01-08 or 09 in its entirety IS the starport, kind of like an episode; and that the last level is simply you opening the starport up and allowing ships to leave. I could be wrong though ofc but it would be cool.
i might take these ideas and turn them into an actual set of maps, idk could be a nice thing to do when im bored
Do you have a video like this for doom 1 as well? I know those maps are easier to interpret, but i'd still like to hear your thoughts on them
41:11
Glad the hell devision of OSHA is still doing their job, would be preferable if the exit signs were in front of the door but ya' know, that is not too important…
That's right, they're EVIL about it.
When i see the "jails" in the crusher, i like to imagine it as a apartment
Would you consider doing this for any other doom games? Perhaps one or both of the final doom megawads or the ultimate doom?
wow this is actually an amazing theory!
I love your interpretations of these maps. The only one I could really disagree with is Icon of Sin since the end text mentions its thrashing limbs falling across the landscape
I mean, that doesn't disprove anything, though. The head is still obviously mounted on a wall, and the limbs could just be out of frame below or behind it.
Are you planning to do the same for doom 1 as well. This video was amazing and I would love to see your thoughts on the maps from other games.
this make's as much sense as Peter's TF2 undertale fanfic game :Trollface:
Instead of the airstrike section from HL, that bit you showed reminded me of that big outdoor section in the middle of E3M5 from the original Doom.
And just a couple of years of technological development and we no longer had to hint at what places were. Going from Doom's requirements of a 386 with 4MB of memory to a 486 with 8MB for Duke3D, and level designers could be explicit about the places they were making, rather than merely hinting what they intended, even though the Doom and BUILD engines use fairly similar technology. You could arguably say that ID kept the hinting alive when they went to full 3D with Quake, as well, as if they still thought the engine was too limited for explicit details, and would have to wait for the next one before they could make the move.
I tried to make a mod that took doom 2's levels and remade them to make them make more connected like you were talking about, my mapping skills wernt up to snuff so i quit lol. Ive made a few custom enemies so ill probabally try doing it again with my custom enemies. I even thought that entryway was a train station, what a coincidence! if i were to redesign it fully i would make the maps more colorful, i personally love the more saturated and bright look of doom 2016 and eternal and id love to see doom 2 if it was just as bright.
Then you should look up Honte, or Hell on the Earth.
It is probably the most impressive D2 remake wad.
Updating the looks of every level, making them more believable, utilise what can be done with Doom nowdays, making the Icon more fun...
Aaand all of this without altering layout or scale of the og levels, they dont even use any new textures.
It's all og textures, and yet it feels so fresh and better looking.
It also has TONS of Doom cute.
@@rukifellth2So more Going Down than Hell on Earth?
Wow, I had the same idea of a video for a future, and I appreciate that you had the same idea about toxic waste that I had -- it's a fuel for the starships. The round area in Pit where BFG is could be a nuclear power plant, working on that energy, or a pump with a filter of some sort (after all, even Doom 1 gave us ''Toxic Refinery'' as if the fuel is produced by refining the toxic waste.).
Though I have a slightly different opinion on Icon of Sin.
Notice that in Doom 1 demons basically had no goal. They just invade the bases after humans invade their home and experimented on them (Cyberdemon, Barons in chambers in E1M8, Imp Cage in E1M9, etc.). They weren't even teamed up, seeing how Cyberdemon had a completely different plans and basically took over the Deimos, considering that he has not so good relationship with barons, which are Noble Family of Hell (their faces are the only demon faces being portrait, other being their God - Icon, and a prophet - Arch-vile.) Demons have their own conflicts, but when the smartest of them, Mastermind, realizes the power of human technology (he is the only one who is smart enough to use them for his own good) and decided to use it to bring their ancient god back to the life. This is why demons are working together, they have their own goal now. They even used technology to create new demons themselves (Mancubus, Arachnotron, Revenant).
But the Icon is not technically dead. It just has no body. But it's still exist and basically is the hell itself. Notice, demons don't reproduce like we do, they all look the same, especially some that shouldn't, like Cyber and SpiderMama. Do you really think all Cyberdemons were like that before? Maybe the only Cyberdemon that was technically a Cyberdemon was the one on Deimos, that was augmented by humans. The rest of them looks like clones. If anything, other Cybers should've been normal Harbingers (yeah, I'm using the WolfRPG name, shut up, Tyrant sucks). Same with Masterminds: does they all have sleds? Something makes a new clones of them...something...Hell itself? But what is the only demon that can spa....Oohhhh...
So, yeah, Sin (let's call it's that) is an entity, without a body, that is responsible for every twisted logic of hell. It sees opportunity in new augmented Harbinger, thus cloning it it a twisted map E3M9. It is a power, that tries to go back to a physical body...an ICON of itself. His head is probably the only thing that is left of his body, but he is still able to contribute to hell. He wants his body back, so he can be free and more powerful. He even brings a probably long dead prophets in face of arch-viles as a tool to rule and a gift to demons that help him recover his body with human technology (and a toxic fuel).
It's even cooler when you take into consideration Final Doom: in TNT, after Icons destruction Hell Minions that is left decide to create a machine, that would've been able to replicate Sin's powers of creating new demons. In Plutonia, Icon returnes, now located at the gates of Hell, probably even more powerfull than before, able to create much more demons.
Soooooo, yeah. Maybe I'm gonna make a video on this theory in the future, who knows
When i replayed long ago Doom 2 for the Doomworld megawad club event, my impression for the first 6 maps are more of a giant prison structure more than a train hub station as you mentioned for the first 3 maps, keeping you with the "prison"/imprisonment feel in a more psychological way than a real One during all the game, overall feels you running out from a real prison to a more psychological one, with cages almost everywhere and founding yourself in some levels without any visible way shown where you must come out, also train wagon of sorts are possibile, just look at Spawning Vats Shawn corridors can be taken as some sort of train
I need a video like this for Doom, Doom 64, Quake 1 & Quake 2. They all have maps that often are from abstract to more coherent.