Winchester Lever Action Development: Model 1886
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- čas přidán 14. 06. 2024
- The Model 1886 was the first Winchester repeating rifle to improve on the original toggle locking system of the 1860 Henry, and it is also the first of John Moses Browning’s lever action designs. Browning met with Winchester executives to sell them his design for the Winchester 1885 single shot rifle, and mentioned that he was also working on a lever action repeating rifle that would be much stronger than the existing Model 1876. This was very interesting to Winchester, and they agreed to buy that design as well.
The new rifle used a pair of vertically sliding blocks to lock the bolt into the receiver upon firing, and allowed the weapon to safely chamber much more powerful rounds, up to and including the .50-100 Express. This rifle superseded the Model 1876 almost overnight, as it finally allowed a single rifle to have the power of the single shot buffalo rifles and the rapid firepower of the smaller caliber Winchesters.
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"When Winchester met Browning" One of my favorites.
That's my favorite anime.
"Oh, you're working on a big bore lever action rifle? Uhm, you wouldn't possibly be interested in selling that to us, would you?"
Or, "Oh, John fucking Browning is working on Exactly what we've been working on for the past Decade!?" :0
That deluxe model has pretty much the exact combination of features I want in an 1886: semi pistol grip stock, shotgun style flat butt plate, checkered furniture, full length magazine tube. Pity you have got to pay well into five figures to get a gun like this one.
Bought a chiappa with these exact features for less than 1600
It sucks a gun thats over 100 years old is expensive..?
That Deluxe is probably the most beautiful 1800s rifle I've ever seen.
Mamiya645 Watch a few of RIA's own CZcams videos on Winchesters that are for sale at their auctions. Some of those rifles will knock your socks off.
Mamiya645 agreed, it's stunning isn't it? I'd have that just to hang on the wall and look at lol.
What a great beautiful rifle let's get married
It's painfully pretty, the woodgrain in the stock is amazing. Every detail, it's fancy but not _too_ fancy. And it's in unbelievable condition!
browning truly was an amazing engineer, that bolt design is ingenious, even todays designers could learn a thing or two
It is a mod of his version of a falling block ( that became the locking block ) and a lever operating both the falling block and a sliding bolt . Clevsr in the USA . Many European falling blocks existed . Many machine guns used the design elements of these .
Ian, if you ever get the chance. Ogden Utah has a fantastic gun museum. It's specifically dedicate to Browning and all of his designs and work. It's nestled in a train museum. But there's also a Cowboy museum and a Car Museum attached. The cars being cars that Browning's family donated.
There are guns in there that I never thought I would ever see. I am sure they would love to have you visit. They don't charge much for entry, but it' worth every penny.
My uncle has one of these, engraved with big game scenes on both sides of the receiver, hexagonal barrel and beautiful wood.
Kicks like a mule too.
The designs of Winchester buttstocks were notorious for punishing the shoulder of the shooter. Given the muzzle energies of the larger cartridges, the narrow and highly curved designs (although the wider "shotgun" styles were available) could be bruise inducing to shoot.
Ergonomics weren't so much a "thing" then. I think there was an expectation that anyone using these weapons was the "rugged outdoorsy" type who took the recoil like a man.
Absolutely, you don't expect a .45-70 to kick that hard when the rifle is so heavy. The first time I shot it I was unpleasantly surprised and I had a bit of a bruise on my shoulder because I didn't hold the rifle properly.
I held the rifle properly the first time I fired my new 5.56 AR, clutching it to my shoulder, expecting to meet a mule instead of the fawn that the rifle length gas system provided. I’m somewhat anxious to get my actual bruises going again, and somewhat not!
The .45-70 is a real business rifle. It is not for plinking or playing. It is for serious big game hunting. And for that use it is hard to beat.
Im assuming that $50,000 was in 1886 dollars. If so thats incredible. $50,000 in 1886 is $1,221,683.23 after adjusting for inflation until 2016. "Financially independent" no kidding!
Not that incredible I'd say. I don't know what kind of interest you could get back then but today you could barely live of that so you are basically spending the money. Not that 1.2m isn't a lot of money but for an important patent... it feels like not a lot to me. Nowadays you could sell such a significant patent for at least a two figure before the million.
Nathan Stratton and yet based on the success of both Browning and his 1886 design I bet all of Winchester's competitors would have paid more. And not just in hindsight, a big bore .45-70 was what all of the gun companies were aiming for.
he got twenty thousand for designing the 1892 which is simply a scaled down 86 he produced a working prototype in only two weeks the rifle sold over a million
Yep
No, 50k in today’s money or the of over 1million dollars. Browning use to say it was more money than all of Ogden.
Wow, 1886 was a tough year to be a Repeating Rifle Collector. Imagine if you were down on your luck, could only acquire one rifle, and someone told you that the Lebel 86, the Mannlicher 86, and the Winchester 86 were all coming to market over the next few months.
For real lol
Kinda like when H&K released the civilian MP5 and everyone went "guess I'm going broke now"
I seen this before but it’s nice to watch again because that is my favorite lever action, especially in 50-110
I'm looking for such a gun, but they are really rare here in Germany.😅
L-G 50! Great Channel Mate!! 👍😁
@@iceman7322 Uberti makes replica, only in 45-70, about 2250-2500 USD.
The knurling/chequering on the sporting model looks amazing, and that wood finish too.
It's remarkable how you can see how the design of pump action shotguns emerged directly from the lever action guns.
Funny thing is Lever actions are more efficient for the action, the pump was only invented because the lever already had a patent. And was only continued because many people though (And are kinda right) it was more convenient to move the action with your off hand.
Correct ,and lots of other types of firearms
Winchester still makes 1886s, they're made in Miroku Japan and they're very well made guns that can handle much hotter loads than the original
Ray Vytis that’s true and I’m glad they do
@@Leverguns50 is that how you got your 50-110?
@@gunslingerfromwish4656 well I bought a new Winchester and then I had it re-barreled by Montana rifleman , and then I had an awesome lever action in 50-110 WCF
Loving this series on the Winchester Lever Action Rifles. Thanks putting these videos out.
I really enjoyed watching the history on the 1886 as it’s one of my favorite rifles
I'm going to be late for work, but this series is completely worth it.
Don't lose your job over it! Without a job, how are you going to get money to pay for internet to watch these videos and Gun Jesus's Patreon?
my dad has one of these in 45/70. a few years ago he thought it was a good idea to "restore" it with a wire wheel. and someone still offered to pay 2500 for it
The horror!
Oof
I can't wait for the 1895 episode, it's my personal favorite!
bruh he got like 3 videos on the 1895 already. you really need another? lol
NEED? it's my RIGHT to have another video on the 1895.
He only has 2 mah dude, but it's not like a 3rd or 4th would be a bad thing, would it?
there is a 1911 vintage, 30-06 chambered 1895 takedown at my local gunshop i have been lusting after. beautiful rifle, wish i could spare the scratch.
look at this beauty:
www.grechoutdoors.com/catalog_viewer.aspx?id=336
James M you are right I would give a kidney for it
I gotta say, I'm loving this series. I've always had a soft spot in my heart for lever actions.
Good God, that Deluxe is a beautiful sight to behold.
Just dropping in to say I really appreciate this channel and have a lot of respect for Ian and what this channel does keep it up !
Finally the 1886, been eagerly anticipating this :) Time to Patreon!
Man, I learn so much from your series. Thank you.
Although I've watched all of the videos in this series, I chose this one to comment on as the 1886 is my favorite of all of the Winchester lever rifles. Just wanted to say how much I enjoyed this series. I've recently developed a ravenous appetite to learn more about the lineage of this iconic American rifle maker and this series delivers in spades. The close up footage, historical context, explanation of technical advancement, all of the background information and even showing the internal workings are masterfully done Sir! I really appreciate the time you put into to this well executed series. Thank you so very much!
Really enjoying this series! I've always loved the Winchesters and am familiar with most of the models discussed so far, but am still learning a lot about the design progression and development! Truly a great series of rifles that were definitive in American history and a key part of the career of the great John Browning! Please keep them coming, these are very enjoyable!
1886s has been a favourite for Alaska pro hunters and guides for decades. hardloaded .45s do the trick . Roosevelts 1881 was .45-75 ,his rifle was factory refurbished 5 times at the factory due to lots of wear and weather .
Wow, I am in love with everything about this rifle
I think that buy all of John Browning's patents is the most sound business strategy I have ever heard.
That split bolt face is pure genius. Really interesting variation on a disconnector. Was that a new concept in 1886?
I love all the old lever guns because I really like lever guns as I own an 1895 CB45-70. It is a Marlin manufactured by Remington in 2017. It is one of the best made lever guns with the Marlin name!! Everything functions so smoothly!! The wood to metal fitting is excellent!! Also the dark walnut forearm and buttstock are beautiful wood. Such a nice clean look!! The iron sights are all you ever need. Good out to 300 yards. I know today they are tacticalizing lever guns but in my book there is no need for such things!! I would like to buy one of the Winchester 30-30’s made in Miruko Japan. Sorry I misspelled it but that is a nice 30-30 lever gun. Very well made!! I like the curvature of the butt stock also.
Finally got my hands on one of these and love it :)
Gorgeous looking rifle!
I found one in .33 wcf(45-70 necked down to .338) in my father's attic along with 2 wwii p38s and an 1890 in 22lr
Now that's cool.
Great video!!
really enjoyed this!
Among all of the various cartridges you listed, I believe you missed one that was a late arrival and not based on the 45-70 case. It was the 33 WCF, introduced in 1902 and was for smokeless powder. It was later modified to the 35 WCF for the Model 71.
A small correction is in order: The 33 WCF was modified to become the .348 Winchester. (The model 71 was the only rifle to use this round.) The .35 Winchester was introduced for the Model 95 and there never was a 35 WCF. That is what happens when you rely on memory instead of checking your reference books. Oops.
@@machintelligence That's interesting. I was just gifted my late grandfather's 86 in 33wcf, which like you I was a bit confused. I have some ammo that was given with the gun: reloaded 33wcf cartridges and reloaded 45-70 cases necked down for the 33 caliber bullets. The 45-70 cases even have the "45-70" stampings on them, and when held up to a genuine 45-70 you can clearly see that they are the same case, but one is necked down. I only just got into reloading, for 44mag, but I'm impressed that they necked that case down from 0.45~ down to 0.33~. That's a lot of material displacement imo lol. Going back to what you said about it not being from a 45-70 case; that may be true, I don't know, but you could certainly reload it as such. Thank you for the info.
Wonderful video
That take down model looks just like the one my grandfather had back in the sixties! Right down to the sight. Man was he ever proud of that weapon. I can only remember him shooting it once when I was about eight or nine years old and my ears still ring!!
Thanks for the vid sir.
You still don't know the whole history of the Winchester 1886. The 1886 was designed and patented by both John M. Browning and his brother, Matthew S. Browning. Matthew was also co-patenter of the 1887 (shotgun), 1892 (lever action rifle), 1893, and 1897 (pump action shotguns). Of John's 128 patents, Matthew was co-patenter of 35. He was also the "brother" and co-owner of "Browning Brothers" arms companies. I don't understand why very few people give Matthew credit for his involvement.
Because yes he may have been involved he was no where near as skilled as his brother, there are very few elements of his work in most the guns he co-designed and most of witch are miniscule in the design, they are mostly quality of life, that's why Kiddo.
@@mrfixit3666 How do you know what Matthew contributed to the designs he co-patented? And what exactly do you mean by “quality of life” referring to a patent, Buster?
I'm not a real big gun nut but I do find you a channel really fascinating to watch
Really liking this series.
The Deluxe 45 - 90 is absolutely beautiful.
Awesome series on the "Old West Assault Rifle"!
Oh my that rifle is beautiful.
Nice. Never heard the whole history. Did not know about the safety/disconnector device on the bolt face. That is pretty ingenious. There were a few more chamberings than i expected also. I also didn't realize that the 71in 348 Win was the same gun. For some strange reason i've always wanted one, going back a number of years. Not sure why, other than it's a fairly powerful, well designed cartridge in a strong traditional lever action, modernized somewhat. Great video as always. Thank you
My Winchester 1886 is a Miroku 45-70 made in 1998....It has an Octagon barrel, rocky Mountain front sight, full length magazine, pistol grip, crescent buttplate,tang sight, sling ring and at 80 years old it has a sidemount scope with a 3A mount which is easily removable with two screws....I like it....
That wood is amazing.
Seems like the perfect lever rifle to me which makes me wondering how they improved on perfection with the next model!
Love the lever-gun series.
Remind me: Has he done one like this on the development of early revolvers?
ooh Ian, I hope you go all the way up through the modern Winchester lever guns, especially the Model 71 and Model 88!
I have one in 40-82 and it has the exact same rear sight except it dosent cover the markings, and its marked 1876 on the sight.
That is a gorgeous Rifle.
John Moses Browning was a design genius bar none. Just purchased one in 38-56.
I'm hoping I'll have the money down the line for a repro of one of those bad boys in 50-110.
I wish I could get that sporting model. It looks so nice.
Another great series by Ian McCollum!
Great series, Ian! Thanks! Isn't Browning's 1886 design also the point at which the lever-action rifle got the magazine stop, the tab which extended to block the next round at the case head, which then made strict adherence to cartridge OAL of less importance? I think I see it at ~11:20 extending into the tube magazine passageway, then fully retracted when the action is fully in battery at ~11:40.
I always though of Browning as an upper middle class folk, only now I realize he was top 1% lol
well he stuck with his roots and kept of the hands on designing, rather then just sitting back and getting fat off the first few guns' money. and so we are still using all sorts of his guns and designs to this day in pretty much all types of small arms. he also pretty much gave away the BAR, because the US needed it bad (including JMB's son over in France).
Great things come from humble beginnings.
good stuff
Ian, if you ever get the opportunity to visit the infamous H&K grey room, it would be amazing if you could get your hands on a G11K2 and show disassembly and reassembly. Hell, if you could scan an original user manual and upload it to your site in PDF format, it would incredible.
That is a slick rifle.
Love this particular series, didn't know anything about Winchesters, but have always loved the design. (must be all those movies and TV I watched as a kid) One silly question, 'The Rifleman's' Winchester with that large lever, what was that, only hollywood? Thanks for your channel Ian, been watching for a few years and I love it!!
John Moses Browning was such a genius that it makes you wonder if he was from the future or..........? 😊
Amazing what that man could do ! 👍
Masterpiece must have
First long gun I ever bought was one of these honeys. Glad I did.
The 2 locking lugs are like 2 falling blocks. Pretty NATO.
Wasn't aware of the connection between this and the 1885. The 1885 is my favorite rifle. I have a small collection of the Browning reproductions.
I am enjoying this series! Nice to see them as they all progress and ge some of the background on each. still a shame that the US Army didn't get themselves a Winchester.
The take down is very similar to my 1897 12 gauge that is also a Browning design.
You can buy a brand new 1886 Winchester today. They are one of the most beautiful weapons you can purchase at any price and Cabela's sells them for less that $1800.00. Case colored receiver, octagonal barrel, and grade IV/V walnut stock. Just gorgeous.
I inherited a model 1886. would love to get it appraised someday
That takedown system is very familiar since my Winchester Model 12 shotgun worked exactly the same way.
I have a number old old lever action rounds ranging from the .44 rim fire ( I assume it is a Henry round since it has an H stamped in it), to the .45-75. I noticed you mentioned a 38-56. I have a round marked .38-55 W.R.A. Co. Were there both 38-55 and 38-56 Winchester rounds? I also have some .30 U.S.G. W.R.A. Co., though it is not a lever gun round I believe it was the first smokeless powder round ever use by the US government and was used in the short lived Krag rifles.
Can't believe you didn't explain that weird peep-sight on the rifle. Anyway, great Video.
My model 1886 was made in Japan a few years ago.
So, was it possible to use a 45-70 round in a 45-90 gun much like .38 special/.357 mag?
_Maybe_ if you single loaded, but a shorter 45-70 in a 45-90 magazine tube would probably jam up the elevator.
SBwingman good to know, I thought it was just the powder loading that was different.
SBwingman
Correct!!
I have a 94 Alaskan takedown in 357 mag.
The way the cartridge stop is just an ear on the back of the elevator it's dependent on over all length.
No 38 special for my 357 mag unless I drop them in the top one at a time.
Cool though, keeps things simple for reloading. So much wasted space in the 357 mag cartridge unless you are using black or a bulky powder.
5 gr of AA9 might fill 1/4" or less of the case, topped with a 124gr bullet and it's like shooting a 22.
morris4069 Good idea. I like light a loading for killing soda cans.
Yes you can load 45-70 in a 45-90 tubular magazine they will feed just fine and shoot reasonably well
Chaippa is making an excellent reproduction of the 1886. I have one in the traditional straight stock model in 45-70 with the takedown feature. It has beautiful wood and checkering on the grip and forearm. I purchased it through Taylor firearms, which also has the sporter model made by Pedersoli. These modern guns, which can take the full power of the latest cartridges, are significantly less expensive than the originals, which may be limited in which cartridges can be safely fired in them.
Nice
Ian: Where were you able to find documentation on the amount Winchester paid JMB for the 1886 patent? That’s something left out of his biography by John Browning and Curt Gentry. It only says that he was paid “more money than was in Ogden.” Love your work, keep it up!
I would have loved to see the action in more detail (like we saw the Henry action). Otherwise great video as always.
It really really works
Am curious, do you have notes as a reference when doing these or do you just rattle it off the top of your head?
Gun Jesus is all wise, all knowing...
SuicideNeil burn the heretic!
I got a old 1976 Marlin 30-30 and I think it works the same way
All hail Mr. John Browning!
you should take out one of the musket length lever action and do some line infantry test, in a alternative history fashion
Ian, I'm not too clear on how the different calibers fit. Do the barrels need to be changed for each type of bullet?
Browning incorporates brilliant, completely unobtrusive safety features into Winchester lever guns... A century later, goddamned lawyers convince the company to add ugly and utterly pointless Big Red Button safeties... A decade or so later, the mighty Winchester goes belly-up.
The extra safety didn't help but Winchester was a dying concern ever since they "redesigned" the gun line in 1964. I've actually had the chance to compare pre 64 rifles to "identical" newer ones and it's really kinda sad what they did to the line. They were still functional but especially the 94 lost all the smoothness of the action. My pride and joy is a @1936 Model 12 that I inherited and it still feels better than any brand new pump I'm familiar with though I did end up getting a Browning BPS, a very fine shotgun but not the same as the old Winchester, so I could use 3" shells for geese.
@@petesampson4273 I love my 1940 Winchester Model 12.
Somewhat more "forgotten" contemporaries would be the "Ballard" and "Bullard" arms or the 1850's .50 RF Smith and Wesson lever-action that looks suspiciously like a Henry.
Or then. there's the Hugo Borchardt- designed Winchester .44WCF revolver, circa 1876-ish.
Love this series and I don't even own a Winchester rifle.
Is there one where you can unscrew and take apart the receiver so we can see better how the lever interacts with the slide/bolt?
My Father had one in 38-40 with a otagon barllel
Olá,acompanho seu canal e gostaria de deixar uma sugestão, se pudesse mostrar os cartuchos que evoluiram com essas armas seria interessante para conhecermos também..
Is 71 actually a random number for the model 71? Winchester lever action rifles had been in production for about 70 years when the model 71 was brought to the market and that might be why the number was chosen.
That take-down rifle is stunning. I'm shocked and surprised that the estimated auction value is only $3k to $4.5k for it.
They made so many of them and that keeps the price down some
How close to the original JMB design are current production Miroku/ Winchester 1886 rifles? Can you produce a follow-up video on their quality?
I love how looking at rifles through the ages, while the technology changes, the concepts largely stay the same. You guys already did a couple videos about how the Winchester 1866 was essentially a lever action SMG and the '76 was closer to a lever-action assault rifle. The 1886 seems to be very reminiscent of the scout rifle concept of Jeff Cooper. 45-70 was the 7.62 of its day, a full power rifle cartridge used by the military capable of taking down anything walking on the face of this planet from a long range, including elephants in Africa. But this also had a capacity of 8+1, with the ability for rapid follow up shots. The assault rifle, with higher capacity and lower power is more geared specifically towards combat, whereas something like the 1886, or the modern M1A or Ruger scout rifles are more of a jack-of-all, master-of-none type of rifle that is good enough in everything. A Sharps will beat an '86 for accuracy and a '76 will beat it in volume of fire, but if I could only have one rifle, I love my M1A Scout better than anything else and if I couldn't have a semi-auto then I would probably want something like this, with plenty of power behind the bullet and the ability for rapid follow up shots.
Was winchester able to fix the problem with different lenght bullets on the 45-70 jamming up the elevator like you mentioned in the 1876 video?
A genius with a sixth grade education 🧐
Mr Browning has sculpted firearms as we know them. Let's take our hats off and have a moment of silence. God bless John Moses Browning!
How on earth did this great design not draw attention by the military of the time? This gun look so much more effective in a battle scenario than a bolt action gun
I could image several reasons:
A. The ammo caused concerns
B. The bolt action was considered superiour while shooting prone
C. The Winchester was too expensive as a military standard rifle.
12:43 So that's why the hunt: showdown devs renamed the winchester model 1886 ingame to the "winfield m1871".