Please make another video talking about the state of DKs since they weren't mentioned in this video! I think a lot of other people, as well as myself, are looking for info!
@@Tea_Dawg I literally just leveled one to 70 because I've never played one before, and I was enjoying ret spec, but tried holy spec and it was the worst experience I've ever had in wow
My wife mains an enhancement shaman, absolutely loves her character and class, she never stops going on about how she wishes they could have a tank spec which draws upon earth elementals to essentially stone-form their body for defense :D I do love the idea too but she is too stubborn to just play another class that can tank :P
Uhmmm where is the mention of Resto Shaman? We got a good and not great mind you talent tree then got ignored since. Well except for damage buffs but considering healing is what every meta will form around to begin with, it's not looking good.
I like your videos but Paladins are the only reason I play wow. Since wings is everything for Paladins I just login into my Paladin hit AW and alt+f4 instantly. Free dopamine for 12 $ per month.
anyone else find it a bit weird how after the big stat squish, and level squish, we're already back up to such high numbers...? I figured surely they'd take it a bit slower but I guess not.
Absolutely this. I understand the desire to make gearing feel impactful, but taking a character from around 10k HP to around 100k HP in a single expansion is just excessive and unnecessary. Gearing felt just fine if not more rewarding in Classic where the number delta wasn't quite so dramatic.
@@zakwilson3276 But not just 100k. Some of those clips in this video had characters at 300k. 9:24 is a Shaman with 323k HP. My main in Shadowlands had 60k HP.
Meanwhile there's me whose head is still stuck in Legion numbers and underestimates just about every enemy because "huh, that's not that much health, I can easily take this" The smaller numbers are definitely more clear to play with but I'm not upset at bug numbers either tbh
I have to agree on the Balance Druid. Blizz getting rid of the forced eclipse requirement that was present in Systemlands (you HAD to alternate between eclipses) improved this class immensely. Too bad Paladins got epicly shafted this time around.
We're used to it. Has vanilla flavored vibes to it. But, we're holding our own. We just need to be a bit careful if we are out on our own with big elites...at least running prot.
I would have included MM hunters in the losers. Tuning could obviously still happen, but even with a recent buff they are looking sure to be one of if not the worst dps in the game, but I think in general their kit has real problems. It has long relied on borrowed power to prop it up (the crazy power of wild spirits was one of the only things that kept it competitive through Shadowlands), and with those systems going it really feels like something is fundamentally missing and the spec is due a rework.
yup the spec is completely dead, moving kills our damage pretty much completely, the dps outside of burst is low, absolutely 0 useful CC except an occasional frost trap and being able to feign a couple things which helps only yourself and still doesnt make our damage go above someone else that has to deal with the mechanic, squishy and camoflage has a very low stealth lvl - you're better off just using invis pots wild spirits was nice and all, but SOFO tier + lego interaction really carried the spec on its back, without either you were the worst spec in the game.. so that stayed the same lmao
Did you play MM in S3/S4? If you were playing NF MM in anything other than Season 2, u had no idea what was going on lol. My MM slapped any less than great SV/Destro/WW so im confused. (Kyrian of course)
The main thing that drove me away at the start of Legion was the gutting of the classes, it looks like, for some of them at least, they might have fixed that. Might be time to try it again... feels weird...
As someone who loved the big, overfilled spellbooks from WoD and who lost a bunch of utility spells with his main ele shaman, I agree. On the other hand together with artifacts the specs in Legion were generally the most clean they've ever been so it really highlighted the pros and cons. Definitely agree though, the new talent trees seem fun, even if a bunch of them are must pick anyway
As a Paladin Main(and mono class) since BC, seeing all those content creators trashing on how bad paladin gameplay is makes me not want to play Dragonflight. Since the class is the lens which you perceive the world from, i feel like i dont want to degrade my experience playing what looks like to be one of the major turnovers at Blizzard playing a class that will feel like i'm being left out of all the fun. I'll sit this one out till they figure out what to do with paladin(This class is the only one i care about in this game).
man, don't let some dude who makes videos for a living influence what you do! Who cares what Belular or anyone else thinks, play the game, play ret pali and have fun. If you need a raiding guild hit me up, you can bring your ret pali to my group any day.
@@davidpalmer3937 play ret pali and have fun? I mean that's literally impossible. It has been impossible for A LONGGGG time. Last time ret was fun was in WoD
@@AbraGaming if you have a tank you can keep up with the damage won't be an issue in M+. Some raid and affix mechanics are a hinderance. Ret pvp a travesty.
@@edwardhatfield5360 Its not about numbers, its about gameplay and fun. i wouldn't have played the same class for all these years if i cared about numbers. My problem is that i'm going to be hard downgraded while everything else feels like its going a good direction. i strictly remember how they said removing HoPo from AS was a means of making SotR not have 100% uptime, but prot pallies still manage to do so its just alot harder/boring for no reason.Ret talent trees are no brainer picks ST vs AoE. The Horse idea should have stayed in Diablo III or whatever it came from, Blizzard is convinced this some kind of mounted gameplay combat fantasy, but its not fun at all, and now its looking way worse from the Shadowlands counterpart. Not to mention a bunch of talents that pure math/no-brainer picks(power throughput, some say). From my Point of view, this is looking like another "But they will fix it in the next patch!" Case, and i'm not into giving them money just to cope with that myself.
I like the new talents overall. But I think they should make all your rotational and spec’s main CD’s baseline. Than have have talents either enhance, build upon or change your play style into a specific way. Which can open up even more play styles.
I know he says at the beginning that Shadow Priests have been left in the dark... I have been playing mine recently and I am enjoying it more than I ever have. Then again it might just be because I'm generally a slow paced player and just like to run around and enjoy the world the character is in.
I enjoy it atm too + it's been bouncing back and forth between A and B tier in M+ rankings so numbers can't be as bad as a lot of youtubers are making the spec out to be.
I quit playing WOW and my warlock 8 years ago, because I got tired of paying the respec cost to switch between PVP and PVE specs. I was pretty competitive in Arena at the time. I came back a few weeks and I'm leveling a new warlock just to sort of relearn the game again. It's kind of amazing actually how much of the warlock essence was retained. My muscle memory is definitely kicking in, and it's feeling great. I'm not even using Heirloom gear, but I find I can pull any size group and or any elite mob without issues. Feels powerful. I also leveled a Hunter and a Monk to about 50, but I wasn't really feeling it (granted should probably play a bit longer to get a better feel, but the more I played other classes the more I missed my lock). A lock fits my play style much better. I'm glad they are still good. Excited for the new adventure, I have so much to learn.
Not surprised to see Havoc DH in the neutral pile, it has been my main since Legion and I love how it seems to just sit there smack in the middle, without any major overhauls really.
its really not in the middle by any means. Its about at the bottom of the top tier classes, and doesnt need a rework because it's kit already so strong. In PVP theyre easily one of the best classes in the game, and are not hurting at all in PVE either. I would be super content with Havoc DH if I were the least bit interested in playing one.
Yeah I was considering keeping with mine as main. Started playing it fully in shadowlands and it was real fun, especially now they keep The Hunt. Was so fun when it was one shotting in bgs. Since prepatch I actually found it doing way more damage than before but maybe that was just me? Idk was expecting it to be rated a lil higher
I dont know why micromanaging a bunch of timers has become synonymous with 'fun' in WoW. It's not fun, it's frustrating and tedious. If you want to spin plates go to clown college, some of us just want to push buttons and see neat shit happen without doing calculus in our heads or railing a line of spice for astrological future-sight.
while playing wotlk classic, i really fell in love again with my paladin, and i was really looking forward to play one on retail too, but having played ret a bit during beta and now the pre patch really threw me off. So i guess when it comes to class picking, it's back to the drawing board for me. I'm currently going back and forth between dk and warlock
Wrath was a golden age for Ret Paladins. and I will always miss it lol. That said I think the spec overall has been kinda mid since (played thru mists). Came back at the end of shadowlands and it didn't feel great until tier set bonuses. Probably will be like this until we get tuning adjustments later in the expansion or more powerful tier abilities or whatever they decide to do with dragon flight.
Cheers for this! It was a great way to quickly see the lay of the land. Though, I keep hearing people comment on warlock's update as being somewhat complicated in terms deciding if it's good? I'd love to hear something more in depth on that, especially from a class fantasy perspective because I think that's what ice felt missing from warlock for ages, playing a warlock has never felt as cool as the warlock NPCs and class areas look.
Yeah I’ll be coming back for Dragonflight but might actually roll Warlock instead of my Paladin that’s been my main since Cata. I’ll probably still level my Pally at some point but everything I’ve read and played they’re just a less enjoyable shell of what I loved about them.
On horde, I main a prot pally and on alliance, I main a guardian druid. I do resto/balance on my druid, as well, so I'm just sticking to those now. Horde's going to switch to my prot/fury warrior. I was looking forward to going back to my paladin. Now... poor girl, she sits.
i still love Paladin, but considering how OP they felt in Shadowlands with Divine Toll or Ashen Hallow, it was bad how i was able to cheese some fights.
Balance is a lose to me, stellar fire and cycle of life and death being mandatory picks, pushes the dot part of spec too hard where its hard to even do main rotation before dots drop off. I liked when balance was more like a mage, more focus on hard casts, and i love fantasy but i absolutly fail at spec cause how hard it is to play. From what i tried seems to be one of hardest specs in game, but im not much for dots anyways. I want to enjoy it but idk how.
You lost me when you graded balance druid as A rank for playstyle. They feel awfully clunky to play, especially if you use the suggested talents. Juggling three DoTs and taking Circle of Life and Death means you spend far too much time reapplying DoTs. I'm trying to build a better talent loadout without Stellar Flare and Circle of Life and Death.
Před rokem+10
I played shadowpriest in legion it was so much fun, it felt in some ways like a feral but as a caster with it's high skill sealing, every extra bit of damage felt so rewarding. Bfa and shadowlands felt disappointing from what point of view.
Shadow went from "fun minigame spec where everyone else's doing the raid, you're trying to stay as insane as possible" to "dot snooze fest" They took out so much interaction out of it in BfA smh
Unpopular opinion, but I'm actually loving playing disco bear right now on my Druid. It has ok damage output, but the survivability and self healing is just amazing
As a Ret main….yea I’ll probably move to a different main for the start of the expansion. It just doesn’t feel great to me to play. Everything Ret does or offers, another class simply does it better.
Top 10 Arms player in M+ last season POV (for what it matters): Arms got FAR more squishy, removing Ignore Pain is *and I cant stress this enough* HORRIFIC for Arms in very high M+ specifically. IP was the saving grace of the kit outside of DBS windows, as SR doesn't do anything meaningful bar a few niche encounters; it is not a true defensive CD. Impending Victory is now rightfully a must-take, but again, doesn't shore up the true issue with the survivability of the spec. However offensively it feels fine. We got hurt by the change to single-target slam procs on WW, which in turn hurts our AM value, but otherwise we are fine. I would say middle of the pack is a decent place for Arms atm. It's very fun, but the BL Cleave proc loop is rather boring and in a majority of spots feels worse than AM WW prioritisation. Also very important to note: big whirlwind is a trap talent, do not touch it if you want to squeeze the most dps you can from the spec. Excited to feel this out with full gear and final tuning adjustments in place, but for now, I would say we won't move much at all in terms of rankings amongst highest-relative keys.
Havoc and Veng DH are looking to be top melee DPS/ Tank specs this time around. Definitely S-Tier and anyone wondering whether they should be playing one, do it. Won’t regret it. WE ARE PREPARED!
@@henrikh3089 Blood DK got hit with big nerfs all around after dominating in SL for so long. I’d recommend sticking with VDH and Prot for top tier tanking.
Glad you called out Outlaw Rogue here - it is absolutely lightning speed. That's not to say that's always a plus, but it definitely feels much faster than Shadowlands.
I mean, play what you want. If you enjoy Shadow Priest, play it. It's going to do just fine. If you like Guardian Druid, play it. Don't let some nerd on the internet tell you not to play a class you enjoy simply because it's not going to be the flavour of the month at the launch of the expansion where nothing is balanced.
Maining the same character I've had since 2013/14 - Good ol Warrior. Probably sticking with Fury this time around (again). Still not convinced to learn how to tank just yet. I like dem big ol' numbers.
As a long-time lover of Holy Paladin, and someone maining it this time, I was delighted they kept in Blessing of the Seasons. I was disappointed they didn't bring back ranged exorcism nukes and allow us to be a ranged plate caster again. I was extremely disappointed we didn't get a DPS holy power spender or an alternative to crusader strike. The 'melee healer' fantasy should be an optional approach and the mastery stat should be completely reconsidered and the mana issues have to be addressed. ALL THAT SAID with a Light of Dawn/Light of the Martyr build in dungeons, my throughput healing is BONKERS, my team gets away with the most idiotic stuff because of just how much fast burst healing I can throw out. So I'm overall happy but I just am jealous of a lot of other classes and specs getting really game-changing, fun new toys and old utilities brought back. BRING BACK RANGED EXORCISM NUKES
Oh man, as an Elemental shaman main i don't know how to feel about the scores. If no changes come to lava burst that's half the spec dead and the only option left is icefury and that's a controversial talent to say the least. If no change comes I'd put it at a B- in gameplay ( and what i've heard about balancing it may be a C tier spec in strength)
There's nothing wrong with elemental just not a ton that's new. Their damaged in M+ is fantastic. Not the highest that's available maybe but totally capable.
I had a Feral main from BC (I started playing about a year after it launched) through WoD. I loved dotting and kiting and watching multiple mobs bleed to death while I bounced around like Tigger. In Legion, it suddenly felt awful. AOE damage sucked and I would barely stay alive if I had more than two mobs. I switched to Paladin and have been Ret/Prot since. I tried it again in BFA and Shadowlands but it still felt bad. Now it seems I can finally go Feral again.
Feral since vanilla, and overall the same vibe. Legion made me quit WoW completely. I came back in BFA and, like you say, multiple mobs meant I was in trouble. That was new, and not a good feeling. My guildies suggested Balance and it was amazing. I could take on many mobs or a mini-boss, it was ranged, and it was fun. Then Blizzard weakened a lot of that fun in Shadowlands, and though I was enjoying my BM Hunter and Ret Pally, I ultimately quit again. Seeing A's across the board for Feral is definitely interesting.
From what I can see, the big problem with Paladin is the devs want to push this new class fantasy, and believe that Ret players enjoy consecration, I just can't understand how they got where they are now. I can't play retail because my main just feels gutted compared to WoD Ret Paladin, especially now with Paladins being a lot more fun in Wrath Classic to me personally.
As a lover of tanking and a wrath classic raid main tank, Im really not enjoying the modern tanking specs for warriors, paladins, and demon hunters. It seems like all the big damage dealing spenders of each spec are AOE, so it always feels weak and underpowered against single targets.
My main has been a mage since Cata. Usually either Frost or Arcane. I personally love Arcane, but it's tuning has, historically, been all over the map. Frost is dull, but reliable, and very good for levelling due to it's built in slows. Tho Arcane in my personal testing is coming out with stronger burst damage, Frost is still dealing more reliable damage. So for fun, I'm playing Arcane right now, but when actual Progression and levelling hits, I'll swap back to Frost. Also, alts. I KNOW I'mma play an Evoker, if only to try it. My warrior always gets levelled, if only so I can make sure to unlock all the cool weapon transmogs.
My main is likely going to remain my DK, however, I will be playing an enhancement shaman as an alt, which I might convert to my main depending on how it goes.
You could check out Ellesmere gaming, he is a top holy paladin player and says it’s looking good and to not believe the doomers lol there’s still hope for us holy pally mains!
@@jackiemay8840 thanks for the recommendation, I’ll definitely check it out! I honestly believe that we won’t be locked out of anything only because of our spec. I’ve never been a pro player, but I always managed if I really wanted to.
aff has great aoe, between aoe darkglare, seed of corruption, and vile taint your base loop is literally cast seed, taint to pop the and do massive damage (you would have sow the seeds) and then start spamming rapture with 8+ agonys out and lots of haste you should more than have enough to just keep casting raptures. when dots get low cast darkglare for the 8 second extension.
I hope my DH doesnt get destroyed, they are very fun to play. I have a druid that used to be my main, maybe I end up going back to maining my Druid. Only time will tell!
@@ZivineYT Havoc isn't busted at all. It's on the lower half of the DPS meters and the spec has a lot of downtime without the eye beam refresh procs. You start your rotation amazing and 20 seconds later your DPS drops down 70%
The BIG problem with Arms in DF is that one again Blizz have decided to try and force us to use the levelling talent Rend, we thought they had learnt their lesson after their attempt in WotLK (as they fixed it to auto refresh in Cata and later made it non mandatory) /sigh. You have to go out of your way to avoid picking it up and if you do it gimps your DPS. Of all the warrior abilities of the past to force on Arms warriors in DF the historically least popular and most boring/annoying one was a very bad choice :(
Totally agree with the overall idea of what you're saying, but it is possible to play without it and not gimp yourself too hard. The build is extremely specific however, and maybe feels even worse than pressing that horrid button anyway LOL. Lose/Lose
Michael, I will definitely be playing all my 20+ alts . I do agree with guardian druid to a point they definitely need more love but the survival ability is definitely better than it has been for the last few expansions
As much as they shit on the ret pally, I always seem to out DPS my guild mates playing the meta spec, even in lower quality gear. Gotta remember that the player, not the simulator, is playing the game. Also, if the boss dies I couldn’t care less where I sat in the rankings. I feel like that reigns true for most players.
Enhancement Shaman here. I enjoyed messing around with the spec in Legion, but after that I kind of left it behind and focused on my paladin. It might not be the best in terms of damage, but I’m a sucker for glowing buttons 😂😂😂
Prolly not a good idea, the problem with Melee in wow has never been the DPS, but the utility. Why bring any melee class other than Rogue, ww havoc or surv? All sham brings is lust which you can easily get on another more desired class.
15,000 hours /played on shadow and its the funnest its ever been. Good video but take it with a grain of salt as most of these guys havent mained shadow outside of legion when it was "meta" most videos on youtube are from meta slaves. Ill get AOTC and KSM with shadow like I have every expac.
Shadowpriest re-cap screams on not knowing what the hell they're on about. The rest is pretty spot on, but shadowpriest can be very clearly built and enjoyed if you know what to do with it, for example ignoring that mind spike is there. And I enjoy the passive capstones, they sort themselves out. Shadowcrash into mind sear is excellent aoe dmg and overall, I'm having more fun with the spec than I've had since WoD. No I did not enjoy legion at all, WoD was the high point of Shadowpriest for me.
My Prot Pally does hold it's own pretty well. I do keep aggro decently. I can heal up most things well. If I have too many 700+ K elites pulled, I do get overwhelmed by myself. It isn't a dps oriented spec, of course, so it does take some time to burn down mobs. The talent tree does help with my ability to heal myself and deal effective damage. Could use a little buff, but so far, I am enjoying my gameplay. I was doing a blue elite rep grind with a rogue and a demon hunter today in Azure Span, and we just burned through them, including the big 2333K elite boss mob.
The nuanced difference between Tettles explaining the state of the class and B is monumental. Tettles: it’s got a lot of dead talents, all of its cap stones are awful, tier is good, they just nerfed large scale aoe and there’s no real choice in talents. B: boomkin looks good, not the best but good.
The annoying part is how much entire classes have won or lost. rogues and warriors have been massively improved in all specs and at the same time hunters or priests have been downgraded across the board. They could keep it a bit more balanced
As someone who mained druid in SL, Balance feels like one of the big losers. The combination of the AP cost increase for Starsurge, and Arcanic Pulsar, just hurts so much. The low quality of the class tree, combined with bear being horrible, made me drop it for the new expansion.
Really surprised to not see anything about Frost DK in here - The big change of separating Icecap from the Obliteration choice-node really yields to several non-breath of syndragosa builds; giving the spec a boon for players that it hasn't seen in a while.
Been playing Classic since WotLK was released and fell back in love with Death Knight....rolled back to Classic...and it's a bastard stepchild of what it once was
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What about BM Hunters or Hunters in general?
Where are the Dks ?
@@ashkan4830 exactly
Please make another video talking about the state of DKs since they weren't mentioned in this video! I think a lot of other people, as well as myself, are looking for info!
this link makes you pay more than actual price is thank you...
The Specs and their timestamps:
3:10 - Protection Warrior
3:46 - Arms Warrior
4:30 - Fury Warrior
5:10 - Brewmaster Monk
5:39 - Windwalker Monk
6:34 - Restoration Druid
7:17 - Balance Druid
8:00 - Feral Druid
8:47 - Enhancement Shaman
9:42 - Elemental Shaman
10:34 - Affliction Warlock
11:27 - Outlaw Rogue
12:37 - Guardian Druid
12:52 - Protection Paladin
13:37 - Retribution Paladin
14:08 - Holy Paladin
14:59 - Shadow Priest
16:00 - Frost Mage
Not all the specs are covered, just the "winners and losers".
Sad Mistweaver noises.
Still missing a Resto Shaman researcher?
No hunter specs? Heh, I don't blame ya. Not exactly winners however :C
@@hitechfreakz whats their to learn just put points into aim shot and take what u want after
@@hitechfreakz They will buff the hell out of hunter spec during expansion anyway
time stamps
Add ends at 1:42
Winners(said the video)
3:11 prot war
3:47 arms war
4:31 fury war
5:10 brew monk
5:40 ww monk
6:34 resto druid
7:18 balance druid
8:00 feral druid
8:49 ench shaman
9:43 elem shaman
10:34 aff lock
11:27 outlaw rogue
Losers(said the video)
12:28 guardian druid
12:53 prot paladin
13:37 ret paladin
14:08 holy paladin
15:00 shadow priest
16:01 frost mage
Everything else is neutral apparently. GG
Rest in peace paladin mains
hunter neutral lol
@@Tea_Dawg *Sigh*
holy f thanks
@@Tea_Dawg I literally just leveled one to 70 because I've never played one before, and I was enjoying ret spec, but tried holy spec and it was the worst experience I've ever had in wow
No matter what i wont change my main at all cost
Same.
Shadow for life
At the end of the day as long as you have fun or like it, that’s what really matters
You know I always say I want to change, but don’t. I don’t want to go through everything again for one classz
Ret pally for life. I get it lol.
"Core balance druid issues are fixed" Still stuck looking at a fat chicken model from vanilla
My wife mains an enhancement shaman, absolutely loves her character and class, she never stops going on about how she wishes they could have a tank spec which draws upon earth elementals to essentially stone-form their body for defense :D I do love the idea too but she is too stubborn to just play another class that can tank :P
This reminded me of the "tank spec" in WoW Vanilla!
Uhmmm where is the mention of Resto Shaman? We got a good and not great mind you talent tree then got ignored since. Well except for damage buffs but considering healing is what every meta will form around to begin with, it's not looking good.
"Ret paladins not getting justice, Shadow Priests being left in the dark..."
That better have been on purpose lol
Ofc they were, he reads from the script he prepares
I like your videos but Paladins are the only reason I play wow. Since wings is everything for Paladins I just login into my Paladin hit AW and alt+f4 instantly. Free dopamine for 12 $ per month.
As a long time pally on the fence about returning, this at least made me laugh
I think $12 a month isn't free
Your my least favorite kind of people
Should have covered all specs. I'd like your opinions on them.
Yea, sad that some are completly missing.
bc the other specs are right in the middle...
I was born an Arms Warrior, I will die an Arms Warrior
anyone else find it a bit weird how after the big stat squish, and level squish, we're already back up to such high numbers...? I figured surely they'd take it a bit slower but I guess not.
Absolutely this. I understand the desire to make gearing feel impactful, but taking a character from around 10k HP to around 100k HP in a single expansion is just excessive and unnecessary. Gearing felt just fine if not more rewarding in Classic where the number delta wasn't quite so dramatic.
@@zakwilson3276 But not just 100k. Some of those clips in this video had characters at 300k. 9:24 is a Shaman with 323k HP. My main in Shadowlands had 60k HP.
Meanwhile there's me whose head is still stuck in Legion numbers and underestimates just about every enemy because "huh, that's not that much health, I can easily take this"
The smaller numbers are definitely more clear to play with but I'm not upset at bug numbers either tbh
New old standard for automation. Purposes for next exp, works done
bruh I was wandering wtf are those numbers on the screen, both for criticals and for HP, am I not getting something? Thank you for clearing this up
You SHOULD play whatever class you enjoy.
I have to agree on the Balance Druid. Blizz getting rid of the forced eclipse requirement that was present in Systemlands (you HAD to alternate between eclipses) improved this class immensely. Too bad Paladins got epicly shafted this time around.
Idk the increased SS cost makes it feel so clunky. I think balance is less fun to play now
We're used to it. Has vanilla flavored vibes to it. But, we're holding our own. We just need to be a bit careful if we are out on our own with big elites...at least running prot.
Yeah, when they took out Long Arm of the Law for Ret I lost most of my hopes for whoever was working on the pally trees
I can never hear a Raycon promo again without hearing Internet Historian saying "Raycon Gooooood, Wires Baaaaad!"
I would have included MM hunters in the losers. Tuning could obviously still happen, but even with a recent buff they are looking sure to be one of if not the worst dps in the game, but I think in general their kit has real problems. It has long relied on borrowed power to prop it up (the crazy power of wild spirits was one of the only things that kept it competitive through Shadowlands), and with those systems going it really feels like something is fundamentally missing and the spec is due a rework.
Borrowed power plus putting so much power into aim shot has lead to a very rough state for mm for sure
yup the spec is completely dead, moving kills our damage pretty much completely, the dps outside of burst is low, absolutely 0 useful CC except an occasional frost trap and being able to feign a couple things which helps only yourself and still doesnt make our damage go above someone else that has to deal with the mechanic, squishy and camoflage has a very low stealth lvl - you're better off just using invis pots
wild spirits was nice and all, but SOFO tier + lego interaction really carried the spec on its back, without either you were the worst spec in the game.. so that stayed the same lmao
Did you play MM in S3/S4? If you were playing NF MM in anything other than Season 2, u had no idea what was going on lol.
My MM slapped any less than great SV/Destro/WW so im confused. (Kyrian of course)
The main thing that drove me away at the start of Legion was the gutting of the classes, it looks like, for some of them at least, they might have fixed that. Might be time to try it again... feels weird...
As someone who loved the big, overfilled spellbooks from WoD and who lost a bunch of utility spells with his main ele shaman, I agree. On the other hand together with artifacts the specs in Legion were generally the most clean they've ever been so it really highlighted the pros and cons. Definitely agree though, the new talent trees seem fun, even if a bunch of them are must pick anyway
As a Paladin Main(and mono class) since BC, seeing all those content creators trashing on how bad paladin gameplay is makes me not want to play Dragonflight. Since the class is the lens which you perceive the world from, i feel like i dont want to degrade my experience playing what looks like to be one of the major turnovers at Blizzard playing a class that will feel like i'm being left out of all the fun. I'll sit this one out till they figure out what to do with paladin(This class is the only one i care about in this game).
man, don't let some dude who makes videos for a living influence what you do! Who cares what Belular or anyone else thinks, play the game, play ret pali and have fun. If you need a raiding guild hit me up, you can bring your ret pali to my group any day.
@@davidpalmer3937 play ret pali and have fun? I mean that's literally impossible. It has been impossible for A LONGGGG time. Last time ret was fun was in WoD
Yeah if u are a ret main i would skip Dragonflight lol
@@AbraGaming if you have a tank you can keep up with the damage won't be an issue in M+. Some raid and affix mechanics are a hinderance. Ret pvp a travesty.
@@edwardhatfield5360 Its not about numbers, its about gameplay and fun. i wouldn't have played the same class for all these years if i cared about numbers. My problem is that i'm going to be hard downgraded while everything else feels like its going a good direction. i strictly remember how they said removing HoPo from AS was a means of making SotR not have 100% uptime, but prot pallies still manage to do so its just alot harder/boring for no reason.Ret talent trees are no brainer picks ST vs AoE. The Horse idea should have stayed in Diablo III or whatever it came from, Blizzard is convinced this some kind of mounted gameplay combat fantasy, but its not fun at all, and now its looking way worse from the Shadowlands counterpart. Not to mention a bunch of talents that pure math/no-brainer picks(power throughput, some say). From my Point of view, this is looking like another "But they will fix it in the next patch!" Case, and i'm not into giving them money just to cope with that myself.
"...ret paladins getting justice and shadowpriests left in the dark"
I see what you did there.
Im a Frost Mage. It's what I do. Debuffs and nerfs? Bring em on, I'll make it work.
I like the new talents overall. But I think they should make all your rotational and spec’s main CD’s baseline. Than have have talents either enhance, build upon or change your play style into a specific way. Which can open up even more play styles.
Calm down guy, Blizzard is still learning how to walk after like 15 years or so, keep the running for never, lol.
Yes please, needing to spend points to get the most basic stun, kick, and blessing of freedom so I can occasionally walk at normal speed, feels weird.
Literally. There are also just generally way too many active abilities
I know he says at the beginning that Shadow Priests have been left in the dark... I have been playing mine recently and I am enjoying it more than I ever have. Then again it might just be because I'm generally a slow paced player and just like to run around and enjoy the world the character is in.
I enjoy it atm too + it's been bouncing back and forth between A and B tier in M+ rankings so numbers can't be as bad as a lot of youtubers are making the spec out to be.
@@dinooats9876 I don’t think youtubers are talking about damage
Leveling as a shadow priest hasn't been great. The lack of on demand AoE can be frustrating at times.
I've also been loving my shadow priest. I think it is so much fun to play and my dps is fine. I love shadow priest right now.
Cries in Ret Paly (4th expansion in a row)
I quit playing WOW and my warlock 8 years ago, because I got tired of paying the respec cost to switch between PVP and PVE specs. I was pretty competitive in Arena at the time. I came back a few weeks and I'm leveling a new warlock just to sort of relearn the game again. It's kind of amazing actually how much of the warlock essence was retained. My muscle memory is definitely kicking in, and it's feeling great. I'm not even using Heirloom gear, but I find I can pull any size group and or any elite mob without issues. Feels powerful. I also leveled a Hunter and a Monk to about 50, but I wasn't really feeling it (granted should probably play a bit longer to get a better feel, but the more I played other classes the more I missed my lock). A lock fits my play style much better. I'm glad they are still good. Excited for the new adventure, I have so much to learn.
Shaman baby! Both Enhance and Elemental are my favourite Melee/Range specs in the game. Maybe i'll get into healing at some point haha
Not surprised to see Havoc DH in the neutral pile, it has been my main since Legion and I love how it seems to just sit there smack in the middle, without any major overhauls really.
its really not in the middle by any means. Its about at the bottom of the top tier classes, and doesnt need a rework because it's kit already so strong. In PVP theyre easily one of the best classes in the game, and are not hurting at all in PVE either. I would be super content with Havoc DH if I were the least bit interested in playing one.
Yeah I was considering keeping with mine as main. Started playing it fully in shadowlands and it was real fun, especially now they keep The Hunt. Was so fun when it was one shotting in bgs. Since prepatch I actually found it doing way more damage than before but maybe that was just me? Idk was expecting it to be rated a lil higher
Havoc is definitely high A or low S tier
I dont know why micromanaging a bunch of timers has become synonymous with 'fun' in WoW. It's not fun, it's frustrating and tedious. If you want to spin plates go to clown college, some of us just want to push buttons and see neat shit happen without doing calculus in our heads or railing a line of spice for astrological future-sight.
Well I’m glad there’s a reason my mouse is taking this beating playing Outlaw.
while playing wotlk classic, i really fell in love again with my paladin, and i was really looking forward to play one on retail too, but having played ret a bit during beta and now the pre patch really threw me off.
So i guess when it comes to class picking, it's back to the drawing board for me.
I'm currently going back and forth between dk and warlock
Wrath was a golden age for Ret Paladins. and I will always miss it lol. That said I think the spec overall has been kinda mid since (played thru mists). Came back at the end of shadowlands and it didn't feel great until tier set bonuses. Probably will be like this until we get tuning adjustments later in the expansion or more powerful tier abilities or whatever they decide to do with dragon flight.
@@treize731 It is a shame that classic wrath has gutted ret paladins due to being on the final patch
I saw a prot pally top the DPS, healing and kiling blows on a BG the other day
They aren't as bad as you think.
Noone cares about BG
Cheers for this! It was a great way to quickly see the lay of the land. Though, I keep hearing people comment on warlock's update as being somewhat complicated in terms deciding if it's good? I'd love to hear something more in depth on that, especially from a class fantasy perspective because I think that's what ice felt missing from warlock for ages, playing a warlock has never felt as cool as the warlock NPCs and class areas look.
as a paladin main for almost 15 years dragonflight killed my love for the class.
Yeah I’ll be coming back for Dragonflight but might actually roll Warlock instead of my Paladin that’s been my main since Cata. I’ll probably still level my Pally at some point but everything I’ve read and played they’re just a less enjoyable shell of what I loved about them.
I'm playing prot pala and im loving it, port pala hasnt felt this good in 5+ years. whats wrong?
Yeah they should have buffed and changed ret for PvE, hasn't been top spec since like WoTLK wtf
On horde, I main a prot pally and on alliance, I main a guardian druid. I do resto/balance on my druid, as well, so I'm just sticking to those now. Horde's going to switch to my prot/fury warrior.
I was looking forward to going back to my paladin. Now... poor girl, she sits.
i still love Paladin, but considering how OP they felt in Shadowlands with Divine Toll or Ashen Hallow, it was bad how i was able to cheese some fights.
Balance is a lose to me, stellar fire and cycle of life and death being mandatory picks, pushes the dot part of spec too hard where its hard to even do main rotation before dots drop off. I liked when balance was more like a mage, more focus on hard casts, and i love fantasy but i absolutly fail at spec cause how hard it is to play. From what i tried seems to be one of hardest specs in game, but im not much for dots anyways. I want to enjoy it but idk how.
You lost me when you graded balance druid as A rank for playstyle. They feel awfully clunky to play, especially if you use the suggested talents. Juggling three DoTs and taking Circle of Life and Death means you spend far too much time reapplying DoTs. I'm trying to build a better talent loadout without Stellar Flare and Circle of Life and Death.
I played shadowpriest in legion it was so much fun, it felt in some ways like a feral but as a caster with it's high skill sealing, every extra bit of damage felt so rewarding.
Bfa and shadowlands felt disappointing from what point of view.
Shadow went from "fun minigame spec where everyone else's doing the raid, you're trying to stay as insane as possible" to "dot snooze fest"
They took out so much interaction out of it in BfA smh
precisely why I quit spriest
Unpopular opinion, but I'm actually loving playing disco bear right now on my Druid. It has ok damage output, but the survivability and self healing is just amazing
I’ve been having a blast playing guardian!
its def not an unpopular opinion by people that really know tank speccs. most have guardian ranked high both in power and gameplay.
As a Ret main….yea I’ll probably move to a different main for the start of the expansion. It just doesn’t feel great to me to play. Everything Ret does or offers, another class simply does it better.
Been Ele shaman for 18 years. Not changing now.
Top 10 Arms player in M+ last season POV (for what it matters): Arms got FAR more squishy, removing Ignore Pain is *and I cant stress this enough* HORRIFIC for Arms in very high M+ specifically. IP was the saving grace of the kit outside of DBS windows, as SR doesn't do anything meaningful bar a few niche encounters; it is not a true defensive CD. Impending Victory is now rightfully a must-take, but again, doesn't shore up the true issue with the survivability of the spec.
However offensively it feels fine. We got hurt by the change to single-target slam procs on WW, which in turn hurts our AM value, but otherwise we are fine. I would say middle of the pack is a decent place for Arms atm. It's very fun, but the BL Cleave proc loop is rather boring and in a majority of spots feels worse than AM WW prioritisation. Also very important to note: big whirlwind is a trap talent, do not touch it if you want to squeeze the most dps you can from the spec.
Excited to feel this out with full gear and final tuning adjustments in place, but for now, I would say we won't move much at all in terms of rankings amongst highest-relative keys.
Hopefully Dragonflight can turn things around. Some very promising things, let’s see if they land
Havoc and Veng DH are looking to be top melee DPS/ Tank specs this time around.
Definitely S-Tier and anyone wondering whether they should be playing one, do it. Won’t regret it.
WE ARE PREPARED!
Looking to get into tanking in DF, heroic raiding and m+. VDH is definitely a strong contender. Other main ones are prot warr and blood dk.
@@henrikh3089 Blood DK got hit with big nerfs all around after dominating in SL for so long. I’d recommend sticking with VDH and Prot for top tier tanking.
@@Dasstik Thanks, I'll try out both in prepatch, will be good experiencing the content from a fresh role :D
Glad you called out Outlaw Rogue here - it is absolutely lightning speed. That's not to say that's always a plus, but it definitely feels much faster than Shadowlands.
I mean, play what you want. If you enjoy Shadow Priest, play it. It's going to do just fine. If you like Guardian Druid, play it.
Don't let some nerd on the internet tell you not to play a class you enjoy simply because it's not going to be the flavour of the month at the launch of the expansion where nothing is balanced.
Sadly I fear shadow priest will end up the same way it was in shadowlands, promised to have a repass in 9.1 but that never happened. Same during BFA.
Are you playing shadow in raid or m+? In the ladder the specc is a lot of fun for me
Maining the same character I've had since 2013/14 - Good ol Warrior. Probably sticking with Fury this time around (again). Still not convinced to learn how to tank just yet. I like dem big ol' numbers.
Huh? Guardian druid is one of the best tanks as it stands. Suggesting Brewmaster is in a better place than Guardian couldn't be more wrong.
As a long-time lover of Holy Paladin, and someone maining it this time, I was delighted they kept in Blessing of the Seasons. I was disappointed they didn't bring back ranged exorcism nukes and allow us to be a ranged plate caster again. I was extremely disappointed we didn't get a DPS holy power spender or an alternative to crusader strike. The 'melee healer' fantasy should be an optional approach and the mastery stat should be completely reconsidered and the mana issues have to be addressed. ALL THAT SAID with a Light of Dawn/Light of the Martyr build in dungeons, my throughput healing is BONKERS, my team gets away with the most idiotic stuff because of just how much fast burst healing I can throw out.
So I'm overall happy but I just am jealous of a lot of other classes and specs getting really game-changing, fun new toys and old utilities brought back. BRING BACK RANGED EXORCISM NUKES
Oh man, as an Elemental shaman main i don't know how to feel about the scores. If no changes come to lava burst that's half the spec dead and the only option left is icefury and that's a controversial talent to say the least. If no change comes I'd put it at a B- in gameplay ( and what i've heard about balancing it may be a C tier spec in strength)
They just got some good buffs tho.
There's nothing wrong with elemental just not a ton that's new. Their damaged in M+ is fantastic. Not the highest that's available maybe but totally capable.
finally having a good lightning build feels so awesome, lightning rod etc. But yes i agree fire side should be buffed to be a viable ST/cleave build.
They just got buffed. I don’t know wtf is up with this video
I had a Feral main from BC (I started playing about a year after it launched) through WoD. I loved dotting and kiting and watching multiple mobs bleed to death while I bounced around like Tigger. In Legion, it suddenly felt awful. AOE damage sucked and I would barely stay alive if I had more than two mobs. I switched to Paladin and have been Ret/Prot since. I tried it again in BFA and Shadowlands but it still felt bad. Now it seems I can finally go Feral again.
Feral since vanilla, and overall the same vibe. Legion made me quit WoW completely. I came back in BFA and, like you say, multiple mobs meant I was in trouble. That was new, and not a good feeling. My guildies suggested Balance and it was amazing. I could take on many mobs or a mini-boss, it was ranged, and it was fun. Then Blizzard weakened a lot of that fun in Shadowlands, and though I was enjoying my BM Hunter and Ret Pally, I ultimately quit again. Seeing A's across the board for Feral is definitely interesting.
Go Feral again and update us? I'll believe it when I see it.
From what I can see, the big problem with Paladin is the devs want to push this new class fantasy, and believe that Ret players enjoy consecration, I just can't understand how they got where they are now.
I can't play retail because my main just feels gutted compared to WoD Ret Paladin, especially now with Paladins being a lot more fun in Wrath Classic to me personally.
Bro, it’s 2022 and you’re reviewing 30+ specs. Where are the time stamps?
As a ret main and Shadow enjoyer I feel very optimistic /s
Still can't get over these Dracthyr. What a design blunder.
ret paladins not getting justice and shadow priests being left in the dark.
nice one.
As a lover of tanking and a wrath classic raid main tank, Im really not enjoying the modern tanking specs for warriors, paladins, and demon hunters. It seems like all the big damage dealing spenders of each spec are AOE, so it always feels weak and underpowered against single targets.
My main has been a mage since Cata. Usually either Frost or Arcane. I personally love Arcane, but it's tuning has, historically, been all over the map. Frost is dull, but reliable, and very good for levelling due to it's built in slows. Tho Arcane in my personal testing is coming out with stronger burst damage, Frost is still dealing more reliable damage. So for fun, I'm playing Arcane right now, but when actual Progression and levelling hits, I'll swap back to Frost. Also, alts. I KNOW I'mma play an Evoker, if only to try it. My warrior always gets levelled, if only so I can make sure to unlock all the cool weapon transmogs.
It's time to switch to fire my boy. Combustion has never been better
Ive always been frost & i HATE fire… i really hope they work on frost because i really dont wanna be forced to switch to fire.
@@mchaaya Well fire was nerfed considerably after I said that. Ignite got major nerfs.
I would like to see them add Thal'keil's consumption back for Demo Locks, it was a fun and unique ability
Ret Paladins have seen no change from their core structure of build/spend holy power into TV since Cata. Kind of mind blowing
Havoc demon hunters are BIG winners: their gameplay went from boring to very fun.
My main is likely going to remain my DK, however, I will be playing an enhancement shaman as an alt, which I might convert to my main depending on how it goes.
enhance is amazing
It’s really sad to see holy paladin rated low, I’ve always loved it and I want to main it for DF and push mythic+ hard. I hope it’s gonna work
You could check out Ellesmere gaming, he is a top holy paladin player and says it’s looking good and to not believe the doomers lol there’s still hope for us holy pally mains!
@@jackiemay8840 thanks for the recommendation, I’ll definitely check it out! I honestly believe that we won’t be locked out of anything only because of our spec. I’ve never been a pro player, but I always managed if I really wanted to.
I miss the mop holypala......denounce denounce and shocks
“Ret paladins not getting Justice!”
Now that’s a travesty. If any class/spec deserves justice, it’s the Ret Pally.
aff has great aoe, between aoe darkglare, seed of corruption, and vile taint your base loop is literally cast seed, taint to pop the and do massive damage (you would have sow the seeds) and then start spamming rapture with 8+ agonys out and lots of haste you should more than have enough to just keep casting raptures. when dots get low cast darkglare for the 8 second extension.
I hope my DH doesnt get destroyed, they are very fun to play. I have a druid that used to be my main, maybe I end up going back to maining my Druid. Only time will tell!
Veng DH is busted atm, so is Havoc
@@ZivineYT Havoc isn't busted at all. It's on the lower half of the DPS meters and the spec has a lot of downtime without the eye beam refresh procs. You start your rotation amazing and 20 seconds later your DPS drops down 70%
@@Jebble347 If you're looking at logs after a huge combat overhaul idk what to say to u
The issues with pally and shadow priests makes me think 11.0 = WoW: Light vs. Void
HOLY DAMN HELL. Did Bellular *really* just make a class/spec breakdown video and not mention hunters once?
The end times are upon us.
The BIG problem with Arms in DF is that one again Blizz have decided to try and force us to use the levelling talent Rend, we thought they had learnt their lesson after their attempt in WotLK (as they fixed it to auto refresh in Cata and later made it non mandatory) /sigh. You have to go out of your way to avoid picking it up and if you do it gimps your DPS. Of all the warrior abilities of the past to force on Arms warriors in DF the historically least popular and most boring/annoying one was a very bad choice :(
Totally agree with the overall idea of what you're saying, but it is possible to play without it and not gimp yourself too hard. The build is extremely specific however, and maybe feels even worse than pressing that horrid button anyway LOL. Lose/Lose
Michael, I will definitely be playing all my 20+ alts . I do agree with guardian druid to a point they definitely need more love but the survival ability is definitely better than it has been for the last few expansions
Cool, hope you enjoy playing your 20+ alts :)
They just got a buff this week. Its good now
I wish I could find love for this game to play 20 alts.
bruh i would claw my eyes out. This game is boring asf
Play what you want. Balancing shit changes all the time.
As much as they shit on the ret pally, I always seem to out DPS my guild mates playing the meta spec, even in lower quality gear. Gotta remember that the player, not the simulator, is playing the game. Also, if the boss dies I couldn’t care less where I sat in the rankings. I feel like that reigns true for most players.
how difficult can it be to put timestamps on your videos?
Enhancement Shaman here. I enjoyed messing around with the spec in Legion, but after that I kind of left it behind and focused on my paladin. It might not be the best in terms of damage, but I’m a sucker for glowing buttons 😂😂😂
Did you try Enh shaman for Sepulcher? The best it has been in year! Was sooo fun!
A boring spec can be good as long as it can perform, especially for tanks!
This is the most positivity I’ve heard him speak about WoW classes all at once in years!
To me every class feels just like it did in Shadowlegends
Planning on maining Enhancement Shaman. But Feral Druid and Monk in general have always been interesting to me. Also warlock.
Prolly not a good idea, the problem with Melee in wow has never been the DPS, but the utility. Why bring any melee class other than Rogue, ww havoc or surv? All sham brings is lust which you can easily get on another more desired class.
@@sythex92 horrible take. enhance bring more than just lust. they have great utility and survivability not to mention windfury....
15,000 hours /played on shadow and its the funnest its ever been. Good video but take it with a grain of salt as most of these guys havent mained shadow outside of legion when it was "meta" most videos on youtube are from meta slaves. Ill get AOTC and KSM with shadow like I have every expac.
I've been a shadow main since WOTLK, I wish I could say I am surprised.
Take everything this guy says with a pinch of Salt. He doesnt do any high end game content. Its more of a casual tier list
Shadowpriest re-cap screams on not knowing what the hell they're on about. The rest is pretty spot on, but shadowpriest can be very clearly built and enjoyed if you know what to do with it, for example ignoring that mind spike is there.
And I enjoy the passive capstones, they sort themselves out. Shadowcrash into mind sear is excellent aoe dmg and overall, I'm having more fun with the spec than I've had since WoD. No I did not enjoy legion at all, WoD was the high point of Shadowpriest for me.
It's funny because some people are saying holy pally is S tier while others say its garbage
... I lost it when he said "Unga Bunga Whack-a-Mole"
My Prot Pally does hold it's own pretty well. I do keep aggro decently. I can heal up most things well. If I have too many 700+ K elites pulled, I do get overwhelmed by myself. It isn't a dps oriented spec, of course, so it does take some time to burn down mobs. The talent tree does help with my ability to heal myself and deal effective damage. Could use a little buff, but so far, I am enjoying my gameplay. I was doing a blue elite rep grind with a rogue and a demon hunter today in Azure Span, and we just burned through them, including the big 2333K elite boss mob.
The nuanced difference between Tettles explaining the state of the class and B is monumental.
Tettles: it’s got a lot of dead talents, all of its cap stones are awful, tier is good, they just nerfed large scale aoe and there’s no real choice in talents.
B: boomkin looks good, not the best but good.
In Bs defence Tettles is a full time boomie.
@@robertfarrow3218 o 100% allowed. I merely found the esotericism ironic.
unironically us ret paladins demand retribution for the atrocity that is our spec!
The annoying part is how much entire classes have won or lost. rogues and warriors have been massively improved in all specs and at the same time hunters or priests have been downgraded across the board. They could keep it a bit more balanced
Biggest losers are the people following tier listst good bye.
As someone who mained druid in SL, Balance feels like one of the big losers. The combination of the AP cost increase for Starsurge, and Arcanic Pulsar, just hurts so much. The low quality of the class tree, combined with bear being horrible, made me drop it for the new expansion.
The bear has bear tank dps since they recent update..
The design is still terrible only furthered by one of the worst specs tree.
@@Lenitas I also hate the 40 cost starsurge 🤥
Really surprised to not see anything about Frost DK in here - The big change of separating Icecap from the Obliteration choice-node really yields to several non-breath of syndragosa builds; giving the spec a boon for players that it hasn't seen in a while.
I've switched to it from Ret and it feels so much better to play, love the Obliteration build
its not suprising, its a bad list tbh.
Unless Devastation Evoker turns out to be awesome, I'm not changing from Fury Warrior. Now if only Dracthyr could be Warriors...
"...and Shadow Priests being left in the dark" Isn't that exactly where they want to be? 🧐
Labeling those features as fun, off-spec, on-spec rather than gameplay, effectiveness, strength would make it more straightforward for the audience.
DiD he mention Hunter at all?
Warrior overall feels pretty nice, but why the hell is Berserker Rage a TALENT?!?!?
Sigh. Been out of the game for over two years. Reeeeeeeaally tempted to go back.
Boomkins are died in m+ now after 30% starfall nerf
I've been a bear main for a LONG time now. While I like what it is now, I do wish it had just a teensy bit more added to it.
Been playing Classic since WotLK was released and fell back in love with Death Knight....rolled back to Classic...and it's a bastard stepchild of what it once was
Give paladins the ability to 1h two-handed weapons and a shield
"Unfortunately for many, [one of prot's best abilities] appears to now be a staple again"
what?