Is the disagreement over the EU-Mercosur deal playing into China's hands? | DW News
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- čas přidán 5. 12. 2023
- The European Union and South America's Mercosur states have spent more than two decades negotiating what could have been the world's largest free trade agreement. But as the EU-Mercosur summit in Rio de Janeiro approaches, the deal seems dead in the water. We're talking to economists Bruno Binetti and Simon Gerards Iglesias about criticism of the trade agreement on both sides of the Atlantic. And we ask if disagreement over the EU-Mercosur deal will play into China's hands. The world's second-largest economy has long built up its stake in South America and now hopes to see less trade competition from Europe.
#mercosur #eu #china
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*Negotiating for 25 years*
*No deal*
EU: Is it us? No, it must be China!
France needs to accept that it cannot base EU policy around just it’s farmers.
Why?
because the idea of putting the whole group first is kinda the spirit of the block@@Memovox
@@JuanLopez-vu7oo Wrong, the supranational, authoritarian EU "spirit" you refer to is not in the best interest to everyone. It is in the spirit of the few.
yeah sure ;) Countries too then? just dissolve it then and stop wasting everyones time :P@@Memovox
@@JuanLopez-vu7oo Countries too, yes. Expect more resentment towards Brussels.
Meanwhile business betweeen Russia, China and the Mercosul are improving every year, and that's geopolitics
At best between China and Mercosur.
Russia we add only if someone toss a ruble our way
Correct. We feel much closer to China than Europe now. On every level except culturally.
@larissamello374 700+ billion USD trade between MERCOSUR and EU and the desire to sign such a deal is telling another story though
@@global.citizens our first commercial partner is China, second US, third Europe, but Europe is loosing importance to India, the Middle East and Eastern Asia unfortunately. We would rather be close to Europe. The white ones are in general third generation europeans.
@@larissamello374Even politically, authoritarianism is on the rise in Latam.
Meanwhile the Chinese car manufacturers are taking over the traditional European ones.
The Marcus and China economy are complementary. China buys raw materials and the former buys industrial finished goods.
Whereas the EU has many conflicts of interests as both bloc are selling the same raw materials like farm and dairy products.
Get your facts right!!!
@@TheKkpop1 pretty sure as an European you would rather incentivize your manufacturing complex rather than protecting your inefficient food system. In the end is VW, Peugeot and Fiat that are losing market share, dividends and ultimately taxes and income to their European employees.
@@RCTBR33
Correct...
Wonder if Mercusor will just sign a Free trade agreement with China instead which will leave Europe as usual pointing fingers, critisizing the deal and lecturing both sides about the importance of human rights 😄
Uruguay has been pursuing a free trade agreement with China on its own since recent years, so yeah
As a European, I would love it if all of Latin America went on to sign free trade agreements with China and even US just to stick it to the clowns that run European countries.
Macron once again unable to overcome his napoleon syndrome..
If such expansive trade agreements-which would likely benefit a majority share of the EU economy-can be vetoed against by *_ONE_* single country because of its economic size and purely *_self-serving_* intentions-then the EU has dark long-term prospects. Moreover, this trade agreement wouldn't only offer economic opportunities, but would naturally also *strengthen political ties - which is vital in times of radically changing and increasingly polarized geopolitical landscape.*
The requirement for unanimity was a big problem in the early U.S. as well. Look up the Articles of Confederation. There’s a reason we rewrote the constitution ten years later; unanimity made the federal government unworkable.
Time to dust off that qualified majority voting proposal on your side of the Atlantic.
please share your predictions
are all EU members equal ?? he he
@@davidblair9877
*Great remark.* First I also assumed and got amazed how the people-who apparently were on a bender-managed to scribble down such obviously fallible nonsensical treaty in actually readable, coherent sentences. But, nevertheless it turns out they *_did_* change it in 2007 to QMV, as you were suggesting. However, *_now_* I want to know who the other, conspiring crooks are. I'll tell you, the EU has severe flaws in its current form. (It's not sustainable over time, if you ask me.)
My personal assessment is that a different EU, where Northern and Central European countries + Poland, Czechia, Baltics and Ukraine are included, would be a much better fit for achieving an *_actually_* cohesive, streamlined, competitive and promising European powerhouse. But this is just my opinion and will probably never happen...
Huh?? Why should France sacrifice its interest for the benefit of Belgium, Germany, and Spain?
EU should be all about free trade zone *WITHIN* Europe.
As a Brazilian I'm happy and sad that this deal won't work. Happy because we'll keep enjoying dirt cheap food and meat, but sad because that sweet bmw won't be in my garage any time soon...
Mais pra frente eles voltam pedindo pra fechar acordo. A BMW vem um dia, so ter paciencia.🤣
Happy people can keep a job in the industry, sad that the Europeans won't take all our jobs
Go by an eletric BYD. Hahaahah
Never underestimate the agricultural lobby for its power and extortion.
Latin America and Europe had trade ties for centuries and culturally more closer than any other region. France should understand they aren't as relevant as they think they are within the EU and globally. The rest of the EU ( Germany, Spain, Belgium and Italy ) should put pressure on France
It's pointless. They will just talk about "anti-french speach" if we do such things.
Just let France isolate itself and fall apart. We Italians will definitely benefit from lack of competition from France.
Because we're not going to cut trade with South America.
Latin America and Europe should continue to move further apart. Europe wants to have a one-sided relationship with Latin America and we aren't colonies anymore
@@FOLIPEAnti-western pro authoritarian talking point there.
Europe and Latam are cultural and civilizatinal kindred.
Moving further away from Europe while embracing dictatorships like China and Russia? No thanks, we rather build closer to ties to Europe.
Not surprised.. it is always the capricious french interests.
At a minimum, Brazil chooses BRICS and several other countries. The growth potential is much greater than the EU, which is increasingly falling into a financial and political crisis
Political crisis... financial crisis... let me know which country is imune to them. Brazil is not exception, neither China or Rússia or USA...
Europe found itself in the status of "looking for a friend". Only Mr. Zelensky can respond. The scammer of their tinder. lol@@rasputindasilva858
BRICS Is overrated.
Basically the france is killing the deal.
Isn't Javier Milei from Argentina? Strange...
@@chrisrobert5252 he is in favour. He is a liberal economist.
@@chrisrobert5252he's in favour, he's not the president yet
So much for Macron's "strategic autonomy"
EU food domestic production needs to be protected, i don't want to rely on Mercosur for that
I see the French are as confused as ever.
The EU consists of small countries and countries who havent understood that they are small countries yet.
Já passou da hora de esse acordo ser esquecido. Se nenhum dos dois lados quer desistir do protecionismo (especialmente a França nesse caso, convenhamos), pra quê insistir?
É vergonhoso para a europa estar a mercê do lobby de fazendeiros franceses,.Eles parecem estar em crise, sem contar o estado atual com conflitos e "invasão" de povos culturalmente opostos.
Eu não vejo onde um lado sai desfavorecido nesse acordo.
Concordo, que se continue a comprar e a vender como se tem feito há séculos. Afinal o acordo é necessário para quê ? A europa precisa de produtos da America do Sul ? Pois compra-os. São produtos que não produz ? Reduz a taxa, são produtos concorrentes ? eleva a taxa... A América do Sul faz o mesmo e sigamos em frente.
Well, they're French... If they don't bury us all in a damn mountain of troubles, they're not themselves. 😑
In a way it’s surprising France ever ceded enough sovereignty to enable the current level of centralized EU control.
EU is a loose trade bloc with mamy self inflicting interests.
Importing beef from the other side of the Atlantic is not consistent with diminishing our CO2 emissions.
It is. Mercosur carbon footprint is lower because of the amount of forests they have. In Europe cattle is mostly confined during cold months so emissions are much higher
Who cares? CO2 is plant food.
@@larissamello374 interesting I did not know that could you mention a source for the carbon footprint being lower I could not find anything through naive googling ?(default position is still to believe you, your point sounds plausible)
But the main point is not to say we should buy cattle in Europe instead, just that importing a CO2 intense food from afar is not something we should encourage economically (the fact that there also exist some even worse alternative locally is not an argument, except for maybe cutting subventions to cattle in Europe too).
When EU wants to derisking, it needs at least one substitute or better a few more. What about meet each other halfway, for certain categories, reduce Tariffs and not eliminate, as an incentive to improve the eco impact and meanwhile level up the cost gap too. For French farms they also need to increase their productivity to engage the competition, which eventually benefits the consumers.
Hi Rob! I didn't know you worked here. Glad to see you!
Does the reporter have a CZcams channel??
I think I watched one of his videos once.
He does
Shout out to the presenter Rob Watts whose personal channel RobWords is highly educational and entertaining.
Such an important issue. I do not dispute the expertise of Mr. Iglesias. But couldn't DW have found someone with good English fluency? As a Brazilian, I resent that such and important stage as DW was "lost" to support the Mercosul (Mercosur) arguments. This kind of poor portraying is one of the many reasons why, after 23 years, the trade agreement is still on hold.
For the true perspective on this sort of trade deal just ask any middle-class factory worker in The U.S. Oh wait, there aren't any middle-class factory workers in The U.S. any more.
24 years of imitating work. 0 result. I enjoy paying taxes for lavish lifestyles of politicians involved
Such deals take a lot of time, it can't be done in 2 years
Correct. So many executive airplane tickets and five star hotels. European diplomats right now are at a meeting in Rio.
@@larissamello374 The way I see it, it is good they are and it would be even better if there would be such deals all over the world
More cooperation on human rights, commerce, education, health, environment, industry, research etc are badly needed
@@global.citizensbut we need deals, not endless empty meetings...
The deal was mostly done decades ago, it's just France cucking it for the last 20 years
Big picture wise, establishing ties to South Americas and helping develop it to eventually become major advanced Allies like with the EU and US instead of just neutral trade partners is critical in the case China manages to resolve their internal problems and develops to the level of even just Hungary.
That was an all times goal for us Italians for multiple reasons.
Many South American countries have deep ties with Italy. We have lots of citizens that are also citizens of Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Bolivia, Venezuela etc.
We export and import tons of stuff from and to South America.
For us Italians, in short, it's a vital market.
If the French wants to cut that market, that can be a huge market, it's just their own decision.
We Italians, and many of other Europeans will continue to trade with South America.
It will just strenght our both economies and makes us stronger while France will have to struggle in an international market that is everyday more limited. Definitely not a good news for the French.
China is far more developed than Hungary. China has a gdp comparable to whole of the EU and it'll only get larger.
@@bloodfiredrake7259 no. It can't. Moreover China is facing two crisis at the time: population is shrinking and the State have huge debts.
Exactly like EU, but EU is way more stable than China.
@@danielefabbro822Not true at all! China has a population of 1.4 billion people, maybe in two hundred years from now they will shrink to 850 million people! (Or do you think that China will shrink to 800 million people in 2 decades from now!?😂😂) Europe is also facing population issue they are aging and not having enough newborns! China is way more stable since they are just a single country single state!! Europe is struggling to get along well among them since EU is NOT a single country or state it is the combination of 27 different countries with different interests! Just look at France avoiding an EU trade to be done with MercoSur! That’s not something that happens in China!!🇨🇳
@@danielefabbro822 around 23% of the mercosur populations are Italian descendants - second third generations. They arrived between 1900 - 1914. About 57 million people.
Yes, yes it has
The EU-Mercosur deal needs to ensure strong environmental protections. It need the support of environmentalists, and then Macron and the French-protectionists will have no allies left.
Yes. Yet China will remain the world's largest polluter. The CCP never adheres to international regulations or agreements.
the industrialized countries are mad about some cows eh?
They will just find another reason....
there is a side letter that does precisely that. And even sanctions mercosur if the fail to meet the Paris agreement goals. It was France who wrote it in the hopes they would give up but they made a fair counterproposal and France finally had to admit they won’t close the deal.
@@JuanLopez-vu7oo dont pretend like brazilians want their rain forests cut down for european corporations, is someone paying you or are you just ignorant?
25 years negotiation??? EU very efficient 😂😅
Danmm a quarter of a century has passed and this deal is still stuck lmao. maybe half a century later.
Looking at it from all sides, this would be a good agreement for both. A large and demanding open market for European products and a reduction in the European monopolies that control growth and quality of life in the member countries. Portugal's leadership, for all its history and communion with Brazil, should take on a more active intermediary role in the negotiations of the agreement, also placing itself as a distribution channel for other countries through its ports.
From Far East pov the situation in which Mercosur countries are choosing EU or China and their allies to sell their products is something of a horror
There's no choice, there's no way Mercosur wouldn't trade with China
Thank God at least France has common sense!
If you think France are bad when it comes to their agri-protectionist policies, you have not seen Irish politics. If France suddenly changed their stance overnight, this deal will still never gain Ireland's approval as it currently is, even with pharmaceutical products being the largest export of the Irish economy. MERCOSUR trade deal is dead in it's current form.
Say what you will about the French, and there are many valid criticisms, the politicians are actually frightened of their citizens. No one can raise a stink, or interrupt business as usual, than a group of scorned Frenchmen lol. The British Gov't, however, and to some extent their citizens, are the complete opposite. Under Johnson, and later Sunak, they threw their entire agriculture industry under the bus with their Australian and Indian trade deals. Here's the tragedy of it all, the Brits got absolutely nothing in return; the Gov't gave everything away to get a couple headlines in British papers-as if to say, look we did something after Brexit.
The Brits were entirely shortsighted on this one. There is a looming food and water crisis that will cause global suffering; many agricultural economies will be devastated. The major powers, China and America have put their defense institutions into overdrive to develop a global strategy to ease the crisis, that's why Ukraine is so important. America knows how much grain Ukraine produces. Sorry for the long winded comment lol. Long story short, protecting food supplies will be vital within the next 15 years.
@@jayklink851 I was talking about Ireland, not Britain.
@@jayklink851clearly French politicians arent scared of the French population given that they have filled France to the brim with Africans, contrary to the wishes of the population
@@Kfend19 Yeah, I know. I just wanted to point out how the current British gov't did the complete opposite of France and Ireland. British farmers, who still have to follow EU safety standards, will be utterly devastated by the cheap Australian beef; which is has much lower standards (similar to America).
is it just me or does the anchor have a huge crush on bruno?
Yeah, chemistry between the two is cooking
This trade deal is never going to happen. France will permanently move the goalposts to protect its own agricultural industry. Germany will not push up the issue because it would mean alienating one of their main allies when Russia is fighting a war very close to home.
Deals of this kind don't make any sense today. Calm down the global trade, try to be local, and sober for gods sake
Yes trade locally. Go ahead and allow all other world regions to ahead and sign their own trade deals and shut you and your companies out of their markets.
It makes total sense since such deals will stimulate growth at a much larger scale the local trade in regions such as South America
meat is super expensive in Europe, what are the Frenchies thinking about?
The EU should sign free trade agreements with all democratic countries, whether it be the US or Uruguay
And also free moment of people just like within EU !
CETA has been a huge hit…oh wait.
China's hands ??
Quota Tariffs are Better for Free Trade between The European Union and Mercosur.
It more like a trade between colony and colonizer. Import raw material, export finished goods.
Not like China, right?? Are the Chinese not buying raw material and exporting manufacturing goods?
OMG. The sweet deal were the people who spent 20 years negotiating this agreement, which is still not ratified. I am sure that they pledged to save money by teleconferencing and if not, flying coach and eating only at climate reducing fast food restaurants.
This free trade agreement virtually had nil Chinese involvement, yet the title still managed to mention China in a negative light. I'm seeing DW with sinophobia here.
China pressured mercosur a lot to not close the deal but it was France who ultimately helped them! They are among the largest buyers of industrialized products!
Monroe Doctrine
"Why tv always talking ridicilious things "Squidward said
Damn looking at that diagram it's still very old school colonial huh. Raw materials to Europe, finished goods to the Colonies.
Ironically, I think some of the tariffs to be lifted would be the kind of capital goods that could help Mercosur states develop domestic industries.
Half of mercosur exports to Europe are industrialized products so. Europe is a very good market for middle tech products as they are more focused on high tech.
Does the EU need this deal?
If it didn't need it, it wouldn't be negotiating it.
The EU gets expanded access to low cost food and raw materials
@@no_more_spamplease5121 nice way to make it more expensive in the future.
You display a critical thinking flaw because what one does does not equate in what one needs. And this also applies to your own life.
I pray France 🇫🇷 continues to work with EU to bring more to our futures together as a team
🤡🙄
A little bit about progressive Europe.
My friend in Russia develops software for banks, the tax service and other organizations. Orders are periodically received from the European Union, despite the sanctions. And then the Europeans got to one of the working discussions of our domestic tax and banking products for individuals. The full Democratic delegation is in deep shock. It turns out that in Russia, where, as the Western media writes, pigeons are caught, hedgehogs are hunted, a citizen can click on a key once a year, pay all taxes and forget about them until next year. it takes up to 5 minutes. For Europe, this is not just unattainable - they simply do not believe in such things. It's as if a man from a deaf African tribe saw a jet plane.
The most amazing thing is that in Russia there are many things that seem unattainable to a European...
hey what the heck... you do videos on language and words!!! what're you doing on german news!
Let German just pursue its own path inspite of France
Germany is an occupied country and will continue to take orders from Washington.
25years! The EU is so efficient😂
France is being so petty while the world is trying to get things done in a terrible global situation. Ukraine would have more artillery if it work for Macrons manipulations
Forget about the EU Monkey-On-Your-Back. European countries had more independence under the EEC than being corralled by a common currency and made unthinking animals for the US abattoir.
At same time companies are abonding germany😂😂😂.
Don't play China card in all your failure... Trade is simple, it is a win-win thing. The more politico you add, the harder to arrive a win-win deal.
😂😂😂
This agreement is not good fot Mercosul counties. It is the opinions of brasiliens left wing economists. It is my oppinion also ( i lived in Brasil many many years and I knew the political and the economic enviroment.
So EU was depending on russian gas. We know where it lead today. And the EU want to repeat this with food dependance from the south america, killing the european local production in the process ? It’s madness.
Meanwhile, China is buying up the world's grain after aiding and abetting Putin's unnecessary war of aggression....
Which caused a global shortage.
The EU should sever ties with authoritarian governments.
Yes, most people have now learned the advantages cheap Russian gas gave. The bill for this lesson will be very expensive in the years to come.
No German manufacturing was.
Ukraine wanted to join the EU then Russia invaded.
If Ukraine had joined the EU would be a net exporter of grains and Russia hated that idea so they decided to culturally replace/destroy Ukraine.
Exactly that's what I thought. How is this even in line with EU environmental policies? EU is a major food producer and South America should rather export their produce to the Middle East, because they have severe food shortages created by Russia
The Russians, nor the Iranians never stopped selling EU energy.
It was the EU who put sanctions on Russian and Iranian gas and oil and chose to buy more expensive energy from the US and Qatar to make the US happy.
US also blew up the Russian Nordstream pipelines and the EU covered it up and went along with what the US did.
The Western Media refused to cover the topic.
Russia never wanted to stop doing business with the EU.
The EU is the one who sought to end all businesses with Russia.
Freedom of movement for south America?
No that’s not what this is about.
Euro prefer africans them latin americans.
Idk if you know but it's already free, but how many south Americans are in Europe compared to Asia for example?
If you want additional in-depth academic information, outside of CZcams, regarding what countries like Russia and China are doing; then I highly encourage using these useful resources, which have extensive reports:
- Amnesty International
- Atlantic Council
- Australian Strategic Policy Institute
- Carnegie Endowment
- Cato Institute
- Center for New American Security
- Center for Strategic and International Studies
- Foundation for Defense of Democracy
- Helsinki Commission
- Heritage Foundation
- Hudson Institute
- Human Rights Watch
- National Endowment for Democracy
- Royal United Services Institute
- Safeguard Defenders
- Stimpson Center
- Wilson Center
This is a list of multinational think tanks and NGO's, that present their data and findings for the sake of public transparency and accountability.
Apologists for pro-Authoritarian regimes despise these organizations for exposing what their rogue governments do.
How very neocon/neolib of you.
I would go for individual names rather than institutes.
All are funded by American??
How very kind of you. Care to list who's funding these institutes？
the heritage Foundation is literally a conservative think tank, it's 100% biased lmao
EU is the part Of US, maybe provinve of US...😂😂😂😂
Don’t know why, but the face expressions of that DW spokesman makes it very punchable 😂
As a European, to which countries would we be exporting exactly ? These are are all, with all due respect, low income countries. This is an import deal, from European perspective. I can understand France.
They are middle income countries - Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay and Paraguay. They buy industrialized products from China not Europe as it is now.
You need to learn more about south america.
China is way cheaper. The USP they are selling that we are expanding a consumer base there is nonsense. I have trading companies but we are simply too expensive for South America. I would rather see a refurbished CETA or TTIP than this. @@larissamello374
Im simply coming from a business perspective exporting goods from Europe to the world. Sorry but South America was not in any way a convincing market to sell too. As I said earlier, I would rather see a refurbished trade deal with richer countries like the USA or Canada than this. @@jam6636
Oh yeah, it's like Europe is trying to make a deal with Tuvalu 🙄
Damit france you have never won a war! 😂
You have never studied history.
Objectively a good portion of the world speaks French because of how successful their military has been.
😒 China has never won a war
😂😂true
@@Tacit_Ternhmmm all of French ex colonies are still very much 3rd world and many are still being exploited by France in contrast to ex British colonies who are developed and wealthy.
this deal is perfect for germany, teh main trade from EU towards Mercosur is basically the german products (BASF, BMW, VW, ...) and the main trade from the mercosur towards is cheap crapy food which satisfies the german call for cheap food over quality. it is a disaster for most of the european countries that place higher value in food quality and whose economy is based on food production with a certain quality (Italy, france, Spain, Netherlands, Portugal).
The resistance is coming from Austria, France and Ireland mostly because Brazil classifies them as tax raven. The others seem happy about it. Netherlands and Belgium are no longer against it.
Mercosur food production is of equal to higher to higher quality in many agricultural goods. you don[t know what you ae talking about.
what is wrong with the argentine beef or malbec or dairy products ? why is it low quality or why is the European products of higher quality
Why the jab against the German palate? I'd imagine having a strong argument - German industrial interest vs. other countries not having so much to gain - should be enough. Is there someone salty about their overcooked frog's legs not being to the liking of other nationalities?
Pure nonsense. Germany has notoriously strict food regulations, so much so that particularly high quality food is even indicated as such on the packaging (DLG Medals). I have never seen anything similar in other parts of Europe.