Here's why the Ferrari Dino GT4 is Important
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- čas přidán 12. 11. 2019
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Today, almost every supercar is built on a mid-engine platform, and they have cars like this one to thank: the 1976 Ferrari 308 GT4. A mid-engine sports car with a 3.0L 90 degree V8, 5 speed transmission, and 4 seats. How many mid-engine cars can you name that have 4 seats?
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Thanks for the shout-out, Zack. And now you know why I went from “that’s a strange-looking thing” to “I’ll take it” in 1.3 miles.
JasonCammisa Avorio friend, great to share the goodness..
I do. At first The looks really really grew on me. I love the proportions. And mid-engine 4 seater!
Owned one of these (1975 model) for over 20 years. More less a daily driver in the summer most of the time. A great, reliable car that an enthusiast with average mechanical skills could maintain.
and it didn't require any more attention, or cost more to maintain than any other regularly driven car of similar vintage. I'm 6'3" with a 36" inseam and it was comfortable for me on long distance trips. Loved the car. I sold it because I could no longer get in & out of it and not look like I was too old- sometimes I sounded like a bowl of rice crispies getting in.
Great that you lasted so long. Good on you.
I loved the GT4 since Top Gear did their budget supercar challenge. Same with the Merak and Urraco. They seriously chose 3 of the most beautiful cars ever made. I never got people who don't like how the GT4 looks. But then, I also quite like the Mondial-t as well.
One of the most fun Ferrari owners I've ever seen. Hats off to you Kasper.
These were so cheap 10 years ago in italy, to the point that it was not convenient to restore one. 15k was a good price for a decent example and now we all regret not thinking about buying one
A good condition one gets approving looks and "looks" like it shld be worth about 70k GBP (c.100k USD). you can still pick them up for two thirds of that.
My dad has been a member of the Australian Ferrari register since 1970. I have been going to Ferrari meets in Victoria since 1980? Dad was fortunate to purchase a 250 GTE restored the body and interior but sold it . With some of the money he got a 1974 GT4 Dino (reportedly owned bye ACDC drummer Phil Rudd). He has owned it for a number of years now and I have been fortunate to drive it a few times. It has often been considered a lesser Ferrari but I love its unusal Bertone looks and its lovely note. I wish I had of had 45K to buy one 20 years ago.
My uncle had one of these in the late 70s when I was 9 or 10.
You could hear it coming from the other side of the universe. Perfect sound.
He took me to school in one day and I was king of the school for the next 7 years.
If i see one of these these IRL it give me a huge rush of nostalgia and adrenaline.
They talk about Ferraris being the most emotive cars.
For me it’s starts with the DINO 308GT4.
It’s just makes my whole system light up
Killing these one takes, Zack. Fantastic car with a really cool owner.
II had one of these for 12 years and 50,000 miles, and loved it, especially on circuit. It does have inlet manifolds; they're just quite short. On power, the Euro cars were quoted at 255PS, but likely really made about 230. Federalised gt4s also had lots of emissions gear and an extra 40lb of bumpers which also doesn't help the performance. This engine didn't make a genuine 240 until the QV GTB/GTS. The gt4 certainly has servo-assisted brakes; they are not unassisted but OEM pads are a bit rubbish. The factory suspension settings were all negative camber: -1.2 to -1.4 degrees front and back. To do otherwise would ruin cornering grip. Although they had halogen bulbs the headlights were also a bit rubbish and it didn't help that if you were on main beam and flicked the stalk for dip it would overshoot and go to sides, plunging you into darkness! It's true the looks were 'challenging' after the 246 Dino but the main reason for poor initial sales was that it was launched into the heart of the '70s fuel crisis. I agree that in every aspect except build quality it was superior to contemporary 911s.
Love the Dino. But as the proud owner of a Mondial QV coupe, I have to file a formal protest! It's kind of funny, actually, because until just a few years ago, people trashed the Dino 308 GT/4 for it's looks right along with the Mondial. Now it's cool to like the Dino, so suddenly people think they're great. lol.
But I agree on the Dino. they are great.
This LOOKS like Zacks on a father son trip with his little brother
you funny.. I'm not that old darn-it
HAHAHAHA
@@maldakeils LOL!
Evora is the other model with that configuration.
Uraco as well was MR 2+2
Yup, and that new McLaren.
Julian Evans Which one? McLaren doesn’t make a 2+2 to the best of my knowledge
@@rohaniyer7589 The new GT.
@@rohaniyer7589 Oops, not a 2+2, of course, just a wee bit bigger.
Love the review. Initially they even took off the Dino badge and put on Ferrari badge to try to sell the cars because no one wanted them. Now many people are putting back the Dino badge.
Lotus Evora is another mid-engine 2+2
Open gate manual in a Ferrari is just heaven
The Lamborghini Urraco (72-79) was also a mid-engine 2+2
...and this design was rejected by Lambo for the Urraco.
Lotus Evora as well.
I always thought this is was a cool looking Ferrari.
Cool car, sounds like a 4 cylinder race car at high revs. Flat plane V8's sound so cool.
240 hp (US version) out of a 3 liter ain't bad. What Zack meant to say about the 4 twin Webbers is that it's like port EFI with ITB which is what I'd do to the engine. Also the tire spec 205/70R14, Holy high sidewalls Batman!
And they ride so well because of it!
Great Video Zack.. what a great throwback to what Ferrari was in the late 70's, I've always like these cars even though they had a bad rep for a while, still a great car if taken care of!
Coolest dad ever, wow
Worked for Ferrari in the 308 period and this was, at the time, a step child but it was far better balanced than the 308. In the wet this car was far more exciting than I could tell my boss at the time - a joy to casual drift around corners. Wonderful.
Three generations united by the same smile!
Without exception when modern people drive these vintage classics, they struggle to find words that convey the experience. How do you describe in words beauty, love and many of those other human experiences? Some things are like that, indescribable. Drive one and you will understand.
Peter Nordloh this guy gets it!
Zacks one liners are like 40% of my enjoyment of these videos [on the Mondial] “it’s like two cars crashed Into each-other, and neither are happy about it”
My job is done. *Attempts to fly out of window. Falls.
Makes the right noises, the right size, and the looks. Oof. Nice driver of a car. As for modern cars with positive camber, Fiesta ST has positive camber at the rear actually.
There's also the Maserati Merak, a V6 version of the Bora, but it has a rear seat that the Bora lacks.
Kasper is cool
I really enjoyed this, thanks for making it. A real pleasure - the car, but also the enthusiasm and great info conveyed.
It was truly an honor to present on The Smoking Tire channel, these guys really kill it!
Congrats on taking that road trip from Colorado to California. I did an epic road trip from my home in Vancouver, Canada down to Monterey, California and back with my 308 GT4 (S/N: 10576) and it was the best travel experience I've had. These cars were made for this and you'll get tired way before the car will. I'd be interested in knowing the specifics of the camshafts you have in your engine (seeing as it was mentioned early on in the video). Thanks for posting this!
The camshafts are just a guess but the power comes on in a non-linear way and doesn't follow the hp curve in the manual. I need to measure the cams next time I do a valve adjustment and report back, superformance has a couple of different cam profiles. Surprisingly comfortable car to take a road trip in, however you already know that!
Such a shame this hasn’t got more views. Zack I have to say you nailed this one great review
I agree. Please share!
TheSmokingTire I already did FB & Twitter
When I had my Dino, they were quite cheap. Not anymore. I miss it a lot.
Such an astonishingly beautiful piece of automotive history and art.👌🏽😍 p.s. the owner was awesome and I think sharing what he said at the end resonates with a lot of other gear heads. Thank you The Smoking Tire👏
FYI - I've tried to answer that question too, what other 2+2 (or 4-seater) mid-engine cars exist… this is all I've ever found: Ferrari Dino 208/308 GT4, Ferrari Mondial, Lamborghini Urraco, Maserati Merak and the Lotus Evora. I have a 1975 Dino 308 GT4, best car I've ever owned.
adddd the Gemera! your IG gt4 presence is appreciated!
@@cookingwithkaspar7436 - I don't count the Gemera as it's a full-on four seater car and not a 2+2, meaning it's capable of seating four adults. Four seater and 2+2 cars are different categories. Of course, that puts the Gemera in a class all its own as I certainly don't know of any other four seater cars with a mid-engine! But I did add the Maserati Merak as I noticed I left it out of my original comment. And thanks for the compliments on the IG presence!!
@@dyerhaus Ha, learn something new everyday.. never knew 2+2 = useless back seats,, the Gemera is indeed a 4 seater rear screen and all.
I owned a 1978 Series II 308GT4 for seven years. A great and very underrated Ferrari. With it's long wheel base, it is a superb, true GT.
It carves the canyons with exhilarating grace too!
Real car atmosphere ...
sold mine great sounding cars will send pics
It's probably mention below, but the Lamborghini Urraco was also a 2+2 mid-engine sports car.
And also a direct competitor to the Dino and Maserati Merak.
Waaaay back, in another century, I worked in a little foreign car shop and we had a 1979 GTB4 Dino and a couple of other Ferraris in the show room. A young couple stopped in, driving a red 4 door BMW 325 and were looking for something a little different. Of course they wandered over to the Dino and their two little boys of about 6 & 8 years old climbed in to check it out. Before the parents even had a chance to comment to each other, the younger one was sitting behind his Dad and the older brother was behind Mom. The little guy immediately popped up with, "Mom, we NEED to get this one! We fit back here great!!" Dad was quietly looking over at his wife with a big grin while she was grinning but giving that little shake of her head that the boys couldn't see... Not today Dad! They drove away in their red Bimmer
A couple of weeks later I was leaving my 240Z with the shop manager to get a quick tune-up to pass the smog check that was due. I drove the Dino to my "real job" and was out in the big field out back taking a few pictures. The boss used quite few of my photos for his advertising. A couple of my co-workers were taking a walk during their lunch break and stopped to check out the car. One turned to me and asked, "Just what do you really due with that part time job. You sure do show up with some awfully nice cars...
I turned and told them, "I had to leave my ZCar in the shop and this was all I could get for a loaner." They gave me endless crap about that for a couple of months. It was good for a laugh... and that little thing was sooo much fun to drive! 👍
Amazing and underappreciated Ferrari, I just hope they stay that way long enough for me to acquire one. Super cool owner and great job by Zach.
I agree this car is great it made ferrari what it is today and not many people even know what it is
It really is the grandfather of the very successful rear motor v8 configuration.
My Father drives me back to my Moms house from his apartment, or was it my grandparents out on Long Island??...either way, we pull up to my house and there is a strange red car in the driveway....with weird boxy tail lights and more exhaust tips than I’ve ever seen on a car before......is that a.......noooooooo😳.......it’s a, Ferrari 😯......
My Mother’s first cousin/My second cousin, was in from Queens with His son Michael AND his New,2nd Hand Dino GT4....He has owned many a car in his time....from a big block Camaro S.S....to Porsche’s, Audi’s, BMWs.....Maserati....and he did as much of his own wrenching as he could.....a primary reason for buying a older Ferrari as this was in the late 80s....He takes me and my cousin for a ride around the neighborhood in Brooklyn....I remember how hard I was smiling, and I remember the sheer awe and wonder I felt when we first pulled up to the house and I was surprised by the presence of that beautiful vehicle
Killer ride, sounds good!!
Zack, try and get hold of a Masrati Ghibli II (1992-1998) or Shamal (1991-1996) for a review. Both are Gandini revisions of the 'biturbo', but the last and best iterations. V6 and V8 twin turbos, box guards, brutish styling. Well set up they are hidden gems - neither were imported to the US.
Loved the review!
I’ve owned 3 Dino 308GT4’s and this review brings back great memories. I bought my first in 1985 as my first Ferrari, & that being an early 1973 car had problems. I switched to a 1981 version in 1986 & it was a joy. For tax reasons I had to sell in in 1990 but bought it back in 1992! These are wonderful for third gear over-takes like dancing down a line of traffic in in full control!
Third gear from 4,000 RPM on gets it done!
Love this guy.
I have one of these...they are super fun to drive handling better than a 308GTS/B
out of curiosity what year color?
Hi I put a lnk on my Ferrari Dino 308 GT4 Facebook page,
( It an Dino enthiast page not a money maker) not sure why Iv cant find my last message?
What a cool car. Cammisa isn't wrong about this one. I can see why he loves his so much. I had no idea it revved so freely!
Alex Pascutiu it revs like a v8 motorcycle!
17:00 Poor boy yawning. But soon enough he'll be a lucky boy driving it.
My 17 year old son goes to great lengths the negotiate seat time in the F car.
just cool driving with his son a vintage ferrari
Came for the car, stayed for the Father/Son story! Thumbs up.
Maserati Merak and Lamborghini Urraco were also 2+2
What a gorgeous car!
Tatra made two-row rear engined cars back in the ‘40’s.
Man, I was hoping people would just forget about these cars.... Know what I mean?
Quit ironic to think this Ferrari was suppose to be a Lamborghini, first sketch of the URRACO by BERTONE and rejected by Lamborghini but accepted by Ferrari.
It's a very unique history and the main attraction to this specific model.. To me at least you get a lot of provenance for your money! Not to mention it was set up by Niki Lauda..
Awesome car. What a nice guy too.
ShouldaWouldaCoulda. Why did I pass up a Dino when they were so inexpensive back in the late 80's/early 90's? 🤔☹️. Great vid. All the best to that guy and his son. How cool is that?!?!
Early 80s even cheaper
This presenter is really good. Love watching his reviews
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4 2barrel down draft Weber’s. Not like Direct Injection. It’s a carb version of Individual Runner throttle body injection
jepito29 affirmative
Not that it really matters in this context of simply enjoying the car - it's just technical geeking - but neither description is accurate. First of all, forget any conceptual comparisons with fuel injection. They are not valid. The challenge in this configuration is that there is no intake plenum (sort of a large, common chamber) serving to buffer small variations in pressure and fuel mixture before they reach a given cylinder. Each carburetor barrel (or throat) feeds separately and directly into an individual intake 'runner'. So, basically, each individual cylinder has its own one-barrel carb. If all eight of those are not precisely tuned and balanced with each other, the engine is unhappy. That process is one of the black arts that were part of dealing with 'exotic' cars back then.
@@michaellorenson2997 Add to that jetting, valve adjustment, and air leaks and you’ve got yourself a project!
@@maldakeils Yeah, I avoided a lot of detail because it can be a book-length kind of subject, just fully understanding this one type of intake system. But you can think of it this way: Tuning this car is literally like trying to make eight separate one-cylinder engines all work in perfect harmony, on a common crankshaft.
@michael. It’s very much like individual runner throttle body injection. Fuel metering is obviously controlled differently, but to say there is no comparison is foolish
sounds fantastic
Back when the Dino 246 came along, Ferrari was all front-engined 60 degree V-12. Alfredo ("Alfredino/Dino") Ferrari designed a V6 that he was working on when he died with muscular dystrophy in his mid-20s. Enzo named the engine "Dino" in honor of his son (though Alfredo had his hand in several engine designs in the 1950s, including a 1.5L V6). Ferrari with fewer than 12 cylinders would be called 'Dino' and sold by Ferrari dealers. Within the Company, Ferrari was a name for the V-12 cars; "real" Ferrari. This created market confusion and a bit of frustration with 'Ferrarista' because the Dino lived with the "not a REAL Ferrari" reputation, which affected its perceived value (actual value in classic Ferrari world). Even today, it struggles a bit to find its ever-shifting market. (Watch it happen to the Mondial today and in years to come. Misperceived Mondial value has cost a lot for the unknowing.)
Fiat also sold two Dino at the same time as Ferrari sold the 246 and GT4, a Bertone designed coupe and a Pininfarina designed spyder. Of course, the Bertone design of the GT4 was less popular compared to the swoopy curves of the 246 (1967-1974), a disappointing successor. Indeed, it didn't "look like a Ferrari". Many say the true successor of the 246 was the 308GTB (designed by Leonardo Fioravanti/Pininfarina). Ferrari turned down a few cars that Ferruccio Lamborghini accepted, probably out of spite for Enzo. As mentioned before, the Lamborghini Urraco, an excellent Bertone design, was refused by Enzo but embraced by Ferruccio.
The 308GT4 was sold as a Dino from 1973-1975, then as a 'real' Ferrari from 1976 to 1980 before being replaced by the lackluster Mondial 8, which started life with the dreaded 'i' engine (thankfully replaced by the QV in 1983), received with mediocre enthusiasm, and beset with weirdness. If Ferrari introduced a Dino model today with a V6 (or flat six) and four seats, priced around the 348 to 355/360 range ($108K-$140K), there'd be no end to the waiting list.
Great write up, yes important to not forget there was a time when a car companies went shopping for a coach builder!
@@maldakeils Thanks much. I appreciate it. I forgot it like most of what I write. Indeed, to be a coach builder was just as important as being an engine designer. The history of Italian coach builders is even more fascinating than any one car company.
Beautiful car
Such a lovely car.❤️
Lotus Evora Mate - 2+2 and mid engined
As soon as Zack popped that baby to life with those sunglasses and that hairdo, I immediately got vibes of Ryan Gosling in the film Drive.
And I'm sure much of the audience would approve of a silent review. Lol
@@TheSmokingTire You don’t give yourself enough credit! 1M subs..
Cool guy, cool car, cool video.
Elvis had a 308 GT4 in black too. Owned it when he died and still on display at Graceland. Nice car and appreciated much more now.
His has an interesting modification with knockoffs and Brunelli wheels.
Awesome vid
That sound though....
I am confused. Top of the wheel tilted in a bit is negative camber, right?
Theplatinumog yes tilted in which is typical of all cars today.
This is the only Ferrari I would get. And the 360.
Jay Leno's Garage, Harry's Garage, and now you guys, have completely turned me on to old cars. I've had enough with modern cars. They're like driving computers on wheels. That's so BORING.
Older cars actually let the driver, um...drive. Imagine that!
Welcome to the club. As someone who has driven a Miura and an Aventador, a DB5 and a DB9, etc., you'll never regret it. Progression of time does not always equate to a better experience. In my experience, it usually equates to more regulation.
if its got climate control.. I'm out!
"How often do you have to fix things?" - "Everyday."
I call this old-car"itus". Enthusiasts know the drill. Wiring and electrical connections. Alternators, water pumps, fuel pumps. Crud in the gas tank. Oil leaks, and on and on it goes. Yet, most of it is not insurmountable. Just a matter of tinkering and persistence. Have heard the term regarding old Italian cars "taking out the pasta". That is rewiring the car. Honestly, I can see this being a good thing for all old cars what with brittle insulation and worn out & corroded connectors. It's a big job though.
Have heard, and seen at a friends shop, where these old Ferrari Dino-series V8's would fail one of it's sodium exhaust valves with the head face breaking off. Hopefully the owner will have the heads reconditioned at some point with new exhaust valves replacing the old ones. Would hate to see his car get laid up with a very expensive engine recovery/rebuild.
So true! Yes, taking out the pasta, the video doesn't mention that the day before the car had a major short and melted the shit out of the fuse block.. I was up late rewiring and fixing the short. To your point it can get a bit challenging when the garage is full of classics including a vintage Jag, early 928 and a SAAB 99 thrown in for good measure!
Ah@@maldakeils! Love it! I have an 82 Alfa GTV6. ....for 30 years now. Still love the car. And it still requires attention from time to time.
3:52 how did you forget the Lamborghini Urraco? Mid-engine 2+2!
to be sure its essentially the same car!
@@maldakeils Seriously? Please explain how it is the same car. The only thing the 308 gt4 and Urraco have in common is the fact that they were both designed at Bertone Studios. Different brands, different engines, different frames, the two are as "essentially" the same car as are a Mustang and a Camaro.
I'm only at 6:25 and already my blood is pumping. I can only imagine say, having an entire major airport runway to myself and really airing out that thing! It SOUNDS WONDERFUL. Just imagine for a minute all the expen$ive engineering that went into the creation of that beast!
Interesting notion; as I'm in luck with a runway in my neighborhood!
I would have enjoyed this video much more if Zack had driven the Dino for the entire 15 minutes in 2nd gear at peak revs
Mechanical sympathy for borrowed things. Especially expensive, hard-to-repair, old things, that say "Ferrari". But I feel you.
Very nice vid..
I nearly bought one in 2005 for $50,000 Aus
I ended up buying a 911 Turbo.Then I bought a Nissan GTR R35 and now an Aston DB9.I wish I had bought a GT4.What a great car.
Lotus Evora is another 2+2 mid engined car
Lotus Evora
Anyone else noticed from 4:00 onwards... the huge pink... drawn in the ground... why would you put your car for that 360 degrees shot? Love the car though... which I had one in my garage.
just the luck of the draw..
@3:56 A VW Beetle/Bug, a Chevy Corvair, VW KARMAN GHIA, VW Bus, VW Thing,
All rear motor.. the challenge is for mid motor!
Great car
was that a parade coming in the other direction :)
Lucky Bastard!
Lol, your guest did get introduced while sunlight blurred his face completely.
Its better for all involved.. trust me on this one!
Nice!
You are talking crap. It is all hand made including the beautiful dash . I had one from new great car on the autobahn and nordschlife. The 308 gt4 was first until the 208 in 1975 it had nothing to do with Enzo Ferrari saying that the 308 is too powerful. They introduced the 208 because of the fuel crises. In Germany it was delivered with 236 ps bhp in the uk 255ps 251 hp
The chassis set up was done by Nicki Lauder.
I found it much quicker than the 911 of the day
And it was very reliable, I sold mine with 85000 km on the clock
I always wanted one.I found a 1976 car fully restored in 2012 for $45000 Aus.I should have bought it but my kids said buy a GTR R35.My late father went to buy a Porsche 924 Carrera GT, and I suggested a 911 Turbo.He went with my recommenation.Bloody kids interfering.
Truth be known the kids were pissed that I sold our 911 to get the Ferrari..
I like Kaspar
If there’s a slow car in front of you and it says left in the passing zone, you should be legally allowed to pit maneuver them.
The video was edited..
the chevy corvair!!!!!!! 2+2 rear engine
well more than 2
word!
This one and the 348 is so neglected
Thy didn't like the 308 gt4 because it looked a lot like a 2+2 Stratos, Urraco & Jalpa. It didn't look like a Ferrari.
everyone else spotted a Ferrari
seriously...that driver at 10m-11m...staying left in a passing lane. truly lame.
Evora....
No seat belts in back .... just saying.
Max Nix he’s belted in, factory lap belts