Good review! Tubes are my business - my life really and I can confirm your impressions of the Sylvania 6sn7gtb's. A couple of things to add, the vintage Tungs you weren't able to find would have added a significant sonic alternative - they have great clarity and a depth of detail that just seems to go on forever. I like both the Sylvania's and Tungs equally and roll them alternately into my Universal Kit Preamp depending on what sound I'm into. For the CF stage (cathode follower / buffer) I recommend the GE 6sn7gtb, it works really well as a CF. And lastly those 3 tubes I mentioned are just some of the amazing sounding 6sn7 tubes, many more great sounding versions were made and are worth exploring/rolling .
@tubelab I have a hybrid integrated amp from Rogue, the Sphinx version 3. It has a tube preamp. I really like it but would like to try some different tubes for fun, any suggestions? The stock tubes are: 12AU7 tubes. Thanks for your help.
@@DANVIIL if your preamp section takes 12au7's then that's the tube to look for and there are a huge number to choose from, the 12au7 was one of the most commonly used tubes "back in the day". I can highly recommend the RCA "clear tops" an excellent all around tube with great clarity and an amazing treble, probably the nicest high frequency response of any tube ever made! We still have good inventory of both NOS (new old stock) and good used.
Thank you ! I added Sylvania 6sn7 tubes as you suggested on the gain side of my Freya preamp and it sounded like a new preamp. It had a much larger sound , sound stage and punch . Like a $2500 preamp . I like the sound before but I hear the huge difference . You are great ! Thank you again .
Amazing review as always! PSA: try some 1950s or 1940s RCA tubes on the Buffer Stage, these are soundstage MONSTERS, combined with Tung Sols Schiit offers on the Gain Stage. It takes what the Sylvania tubes do to a whole next level. The RCAs have a similar effect on sound as the Sylvanias, such that they smoothen out the sound, and increase sound stage, but to my ears and in my system, they just do it SO much better. You might see the "Grey Glass" going around, according my tubes guy, who lives and breathes tubes, as long as they are from the same time period, they'll perform identically. It's just that the "grey glass" is an easy way to know for sure that they are from that time period, but they are significantly more expensive. I've got the Sylvanias still, and plug them in every once in a while to see if my opinion changes, they never last more than 5 mins before I switch back to the RCAs.
Let's start with a simple question: are you really into tubes? If your answer is "no" then chances are you'll be more satisfied even with a well designed integrated amplifier. As Freya OG owner who happens to be "into tubes" I can confirm that it's impossible to find a better tube preamp (new or used) at this price point on the market right now. My experience tells me also that probably few times more expensive tube preamps will not be as good. Am I sure of it? No. Of course not! I can imagine buying a higher end pre & amp combo coming as a pair from an established company that will be way better. But for many people who will not make such an investment Freya will remain a giant killer. For me it was also a killer for any solid state preamp that I tried. Why? Because I have a strong preference for the tube sound. As simple as that. To be frank I must say that it wasn't easy love at first but it definitely paid off once I learned to understand its limitations and requirements. First of all, if you're still with me: spend some time on research. 6SN7 tubes are considered to be the most interesting tubes available. Mostly because of their diversity. Sound qualities of many of the representatives of 6SN7, Soviet 6N8S (6H8C) and Chinese CV-181 (as they are basically he same type of tube) are well documented. After in-depth comparison of dozens of tubes produced across the world in the last 80 years I can only say that it is hard to be impressed with even one type used in this review. Surprisingly I found the process of getting to this point to be not as challenging or frustrating as you may think. It was an adventure. Pure fun for me. I'm not trying to defend Freya. I'm just this kind of person who loves discoveries of this kind. And I can assure you that there is so much to be discovered. Personally I achieved the most satisfying results with WW2 era VT-231 tubes from USA (black glass Ken-Rads, grey glass RCAs) and Soviet tubes produced in the 1950s ("round holes" MELZ). They easily blow any modern tubes, even very expensive ones, out of water. At the end of a day I cannot imagine being stuck with only one sound signature in my system that I couldn't modify or improve with a simple tube rolling. Does it mean that I'm not satisfied with what I have? Just the contrary - I love to have a variety of options thanks to different tubes. I have my all-time favorites but it doesn't stop me from discovering new tubes that offer different qualities. Sometimes I only spend few hours with them, sometimes they stay longer. But thanks to that I never feel bored or restrained.
Interesting. Initially I wanted to try the Freya+ but heard this reviewers reaction and decided otherwise. But now after reading your comment and his reaction to tube rolling I am back on team Schiit. LOL. I am new to HIFI and I tire easily with things, so I can see me trying the Freya+ given I can swap this out for that, etc. I am still behind the eight ball with speakers, that may influence which new preamp/amp combo I may get. I keep flip flopping between the Klipsch Forte IV, the KLH Model 5, the Martin Logan 60 xti, and next week I am suppose to demo a pair of Canton Vento 886's for sale. To defend Klipsch, I have to say, back in the day they were all bright, but their present day Heritage Line they are actually a bit warm. I love them and my current vintage amp/preamp (Mitsubishi DAA15DC and DP10) will rock them. Their only negative is they do not image behind the speakers well at all, instead all the sound is in front of the speaker - which I like too. The KLH actually images like crazy, both behind and especially vertically and horizontally. The Martins are very neutral but have a really good tweeter to my ears. I would love to pair the Forte's with the Schiit Agir and Freya+, but I like the other speakers too. I wish I could afford them all! LOL.
I have had the Freya+ for a year now and have spent a lot of money rolling tubes. So far, I like RCA Grey Glass on the left side and GE 5692 Red Base on the right. These are not cheap, but made a huge difference in sound and what I was looking for. I like other combinations, but keep coming back to this set. Good amount of base from the Grey Glass and better Soundstage with the GE 5692 Red Base.
@@Maver1ck911 maybe I’ll do that one day. I think a lot of the sound qualities will be based on your individual system, but each tube is unique. I have a pair of Grant Fidelity 6SN7SE Globe that work awesome in the left buffer stage. Big soundstage and airy, but a little bright.
@@a3marketing991 those Kenrads are wild. The black diamonds and black glass are both 400 a matched pair! US Navy NOS. I should check the supply system 🤣
To me this supports my view that that if you need an affordable balanced preamp, the Freya S is probably the better deal. At $599 it's more of a giant killer than the Freya S. I used to have the Saga+ and found that even with a highly regarded NOS RCA tube, the tube buffer did not make a very noticeable change in the sound. It made everything slightly punchier, a bit fuller but also a little more aggressive. If I was looking for a simple SE pre to change inputs and remote control volume I would go for the Saga S over the Saga +
Great review. Your opinions of Freya + now match mine. It has a smooth sound with the right tubes. I actually prefer the solid state version (Freya S) which has more high and low extension and better dynamics in my opinion. I would be interested in your review of Freya S but realize that may be difficult in your location. I also fine Vidar very clear and dynamic. My two cents.
Hey, I also used Sylvania in the gain stage, and the JJs in the buffer! In my case, the Sylvanias I used were VT-231. I used that combo for over a year, and eventually changed out the JJs with a pair of new production Tung-sol tubes, which I found similar to the JJs in attack and clarity, but just less harsh and grainy.
As tube roller I can confirm your impression about JJ tubes, not my cup of the. Miss especially are weak, empty. But they are very stable and can be a good partner for good gain tubes. On Freya you can give a try to both Tungsol and Electroarmonix 6SN7. I use them as input tubes on my Ampsandsound Mogwai headlamp and I deeply love them. Great video, thank you for sharing
Thanks for this interesting review. I was first turned onto non vintage tubes through a friends Prima Luna preamp & amp combo and with some large Magnepans. The experience made a significant impression and I loved the subtle shimmer and airy sound; even though it all felt a bit underpowered or lacking some muscle at times. I considered the plus but went with the Freya S. Paired with an R2R, a solid power-amp and speakers that run warm, I found it to be a wonderful combination.
at last! a youtube reviewer that walks the extra mile and tube roll. this is valuable information that can save people a lot of money and effort. in the tube world everubody knows that jj's are crap any nos beats them.
I went ahead and purchased the Freya N which is the nine pin noval version on closeout at Schiit. There are actually way more tubes available in the noval version. I ended up using Philips Holland 6dj8 in the buffer stage and US 6cg7 tubes in the gain stage. All tubes are NOS. The 6cg7 are electrically equivalent to the Freya Plus 6sn7. I took a chance and purchased single NOS 6cg7 tubes and although not perfectly matched found them close enough. My favorites are Zenith/Sylvania and Tung Sol with GE and RCA clear tops as runner ups. The sonics of the Freya N are complementary with my system and your thoughts on Freya align with mine. Thanks for the review.
Very interesting review. I have some nos tubes, valves. I use with my xduo headphone amp dac, and I can definitely hear a difference between different brands, old nos and new tubes, a good way to tune the sound to your preferred taste and not to expensive either.
I have owned the Freya+ for a few months now and I love it! I was using the stock JJs and was actually happy with that sound. I took your advice and ordered a pair of Sylvania 6SN7GTB tubes and put those in the gain stage and I am loving what they do. I think I will stay with this combo. My power amp of choice is the Jeff Rowland 125. Pairs very nicely with the Freya+.
It all comes down to personal choice. I used NOS Sylvanias along with Russian Electro Harmonix tubes for quite a while. Last time I looked, Schiit was using Electro Harmonix instead of JJ in their new units. They have trouble obtaining enough tubes for their production volume and maintaining their cost margins as a result of our support for the Ukraine. They have consequently made some solid state devices LISS Solid Stare Tubes to replace the tubes that just plug into the tube sockets. Customers who have tube access issues can substitute these LISS devices. I have moved on to a Rogue RP1 hybrid tube preamp with two 12AU& tubes. It seems that I've evolved into a tube front end with a solid state amplifier as a good listenable combination. The choices are infinite. Something new at Schiit, they now price the preamp at $850 but depending on one of several tube choices, the price will go up depending on tube quality.
@@yaniv-nos-tubes Hard to go wrong with Vintage Mullards. I now have a RP5 with two vintage RCA and two vintage Mullards. I cryo treated all my tubes as I think it helps. Cheap to do and it adds some smoothness and detail. Actually cryo treated JJ tubes are quite nice and I a normally not a big fan of JJ tubes.
I bought the Freya N during the sale and had the same opinions about it being this and that. Picked up a Burson composer and after playing with the settings on the dac and turning the tubes off on the first setting I'm getting a large deep sound stage thats smooth and detailed. One thing that has really helped is I use a Burson AB160 rca buffer that matches the impedance between dac and Freya. Without it bass was lacking and nothing sounded very good.
I've tube rolled the Freya+. Stock tubes are useless, they are kinda hard sounding. I used Sylvania 6SN7 GTA, RCA Red Base 5692 and Pope 6SN7 GT (these are the Holy Grail ). The Freya+ cannot give you the full tube sound. Tube rolling makes it better but its not a day and night difference that you might get with more expensive tube preamps. It will not get very holographicand, it will not give you that much air. I got rid of the Freya+ in less than 4 weeks. 😂 BUT to be fair, you can't expect that much for the price. Best tube I would recommend willbe the Sylvania 6SN7 GTA. Its not overpriced yet. Just need 1 pair on the gain stage.
They make a big difference. The old stock JJ tesla were very cool and bright. Almost solid state. The current tung sol 6sn7gtb are a better, but still not quite tubey enough. Sylvania, GE Eh gold pins and others will shape the sound away from sounding solid state. I chose "no tubes" with the freya+ and got my own matched quad. Came out to just a little more than it would have cost for the tung sol.
Thank you. Definitely a worthy update to the review that also proves that you listen to your audience. May I ask what is your stereo setup? I'm especially interested what preamp you have there.
I am using a preamp and amp of a small local manufacturer called Acoustic Invader (there is a video about these here on the channel). My DAC is currently Ladder Schumann (review coming soon) backed with Pi2AES streamer... And freshly made speakers called Spirit Wind (designed by Jeff Bagby made in a DIY manner).
Great, I'm glad someone else likes JJ in the buffer stage. I feel they get mostly negative rep when browsing the web but I think they're great in that place.
I let them run for about 250h non stop before even listening. Aimed at 300 but was impatient. 😊 Didn't notice any changes during few days of listening after that initial period.
You are correct about all the things you said about the Freya+. I am in the US I am very interested in the Acoustic Invader Jfet balanced Preamplifier. I have tried many tubes in the Freya all with about the same results. Missing mid base, harsh fatiguing treble, hollow faded sound lacking the detailed base. I don't want to spend more on tubes trying to find what you described in the Acoustic Invader preamp. However because I live in the US I don't seem to be able to contact them. Or if they even ship to the US. I am hoping you can send me in the right direction to contact them or if they will ship to the US. Thanks man! Keep up the good work. Hope all is well in your country.
I added a Burson AB160 rca buffer that matches the impedance of your source to the Freya and now have a very smooth and detailed sound with killer low end. I also don't use the tubes. I have it on the first setting.
Freya+ lacks some speed and precision that solid state will give you, even in its jfet mode the Freya S surpasses it in that regard. I found Freya S to have a bit of glare in my system though, so both have their benefits and drawbacks.
I have a hybrid integrated amp from Rogue, the Sphinx version 3. It has a tube preamp. I really like it but would like to try some different tubes for fun, any suggestions? The stock tubes are: 12AU7 tubes. Thanks for your help.
🤗👋 GREETINGS SRBOLJUB We hope you are doing well in SERBIA 🤗 As for tube rolling …I never have had anything with tubes …but thanks to UTUBE and you and others I have been able to hear 👂 a difference in the different tubes …and as you and others have shown 🧐…tube rolling can be fun and functional…for those who have the budget and or the need…so through reviews like yours can be very useful 🤗…personally I don’t have the budget to try it 🤷♂️ …BUT THAT’S NAP….I can enjoy this with you and others sharing your experience and IMHHO…it’s like food 🥘🍲🍜🍱there’s so many choices and personal tastes…not good or bad…but just our personal preferences to choose from and we appreciate all these choices and look 👀 forward to your future Videos and thanks for the music 🎶 suggestions as well 🤗😍😍😍
Everyone is talking about various tubes has anyone tried changing the fuse? Very highly recommended! Just like tubes you could go expensive or cheaper either way I heard more improvements changing fuse than any tube I put in. This is my experience.
I have had a Freya+ for a few yrs now...have tried a variety of tubes...after all is said and done I found NOS tubes not worth it...too much "white noise" in the background generally...best was new tubes....for me it was Electro Harmonix gold EH tubes...quad matched
My guess is that a) the working zone is not linear but rather curved and b) electrons are shot in discrete bursts that maintain the theoretical current as an average but these bursts still create an audible effect.
Thank you Srboljub for doing this tube rolling. I was seriously considering the Schiit Freya+ as a replacement for my Audible Illusions Modulus 2C (which I was able to repair/recap). But I found a Modulus 3A and while it sounds even a bit better than the M2C - it is now making very occasional *nasty* crackling and distorted noise in the left channel. I changed tubes, but it still happens. So, I am looking for a solid state preamp of excellent quality to go with my new favorite amp - the AkitikA GT-102 Z4. I am on the waiting list for the AkitikA PR-102 preamp, and I am also interested in your reference preamp. Do they ship to the US? I have recently found that having a remote is not just a convenience; but really is required for listening to streamed music - because of the varied volume track to track.
Yeah, I fully agree about a remote. I personally wouldn't consider any preamp without it. Regarding the Acoustic Invader preamp - yes he ships it worldwide but I am not familiar with costs, best to contact the designer at acousticinvader@gmail.com directly and he should be able to provide more info.
@@iiWiReviews Thanks - I have just emailed them, and I will post on that review video any information I get. The new DAC you mentioned that you are reviewing - the Ladder Schumann - is confusingly named. It is an FPGA DAC (like Chord?) but it is a brand called Ladder?
I believe it's a ladder DAC based on precise resistors with FPGA signal processing (basically all so called FPGA DACs use it for signal processing and some other technology is doing actual D/A conversion). That said, Ladder in this case seems to be a brand's name too. 😊
@@iiWiReviews Okay good to know. I am looking forward to your review/comparisons. If it is an actual ladder DAC then that bodes well to its sound - and it would make sense for it to be the "Ladder" brand. By the way, Goran at Acoustic Invader replied promptly, and sent me a price list, and says that shipping to the USA would cost between about 260 euros and 350 euros.
Hi Niel. I have abandon any thought of a preamp without a remote for the same reasons. I would like to have a shot at a Croft integrated amp but no remote so that won't be happening. I understand Croft is kind of a quirky company she may never do it. Years ago I almost got a Musical Reference preamp but again, now it's a vintage piece with no remote. It' amazing how much I have to adjust volume while streaming.
Sooooo happy that you did this!!! EXCELLENT…Did I miss which model of Sylvania Tubes that you used? Did not see in more info, and I rewatched. Model numbers and place to find them would be very helpful as they sound VERY reasonably priced for tubes these days. The prices are insane, because of a perfect storm of horrors affecting the tube market. Help would be very appreciated. THANKS!
It made the soundstage more 3D for sure but that other preamp's soundstage is still wider and bigger. It is not a problem with Freya really, it is just a very strong trait of the Acoustic Invader preamp.
You likely don't even what all tubes the same, because like transistors each type does better in certain stages. One of the reasons why high end amps sound better is because the matched pairs are hand picked and beta matched (same gain for each).
Interesting review, thanks! I recently decided to order the MUSICAL PARADISE MP 701 Mk2 preamp instead of Freya+ . Canadian design, made in China. (Garry the designer is in Alberta & replies promptly to any questions).$720 ! It allows capacitor and tube rolling including 6sn7/12sn7(with adapters) 6922/ 12ax7 and many others. It is tube rectified, so more rolling options. Not a balanced design, but has xlr connections. Mine arrives next week. That's when the adventure begins! Maybe iiwi will review it, now that you've got your tube rolling feet wet? Is it worth it?? 🎵🎶🤫🎶🎵
I have the MKll and Freya+…The MKll puts you in the venue with massive soundstaging, deep into the mix with palpable imaging…Still love the Freya, but the difference is mind blowing.
@@williammilligan1451 Thanks for the brief comparison. 'Nuffsaid;-) Sounds like I made the right choice for my tastes. I've been waiting for Thomas to finish his review.....Mr Vintage has it currently. The Musical Paradise MP 701mkii is a gem. I have both Mundorf SGO EVO supremes and V-Caps to roll now. Tube rolling monthly just for variety. The tonally satisfying holographic presentation works so well with the Bryston B3sst amp and LRS / RELs. I just love this setup! No sch**t 🎵🎶😊🎶🎵
As someone relatively new to using tubes in "higher end" audio (I grew up in the 1960s and our TVs had tubes, and even a few older radios, before transistors took over), I often wondered why an old (unused) Soviet or Sylvania or any other manufacturer's tube and a new one by JJ Electronics or once again, any other manufacturer, made to the *same exact electrical specifications* (indeed called the exact same model, say 6922 for example) would not sound the same? I mean, if I'm replacing solid state diodes in a circuit and I replace them with ones of the same specifications, the outcome should be identical, so why not for tubes? Are people just crazy or do they really hear a sonic difference? And if so, why? I'm a mechanical engineer (not electrical) so I am curious and would like to see some measurements to show the reality. Thanks.
@@steven2809 perhaps so, but specs are specs after all. A tube that meets enough of those to be called a particular model like 6922 ought to be extremely similar. How would an old vintage Sylvania 6922 be different from a JJ 6922 to cause a difference in perceived sound quality? I know you say "different levels of competence" but making tubes isn't "magic" it is engineering and applied science that has been around for over 100 years now. I take your point, but I'd like to see someone with the engineering knowledge do a comparison and show why one is better over another. It would be informative to know, and be a guide to modern manufacturers as to what they ought to be shooting for in performance. Thanks.
@@rosswarren436 I know where you are coming from as an engineer... but truth be told many skills are now lost. Just making the getter on a valve is a work of art....and you have to ask why so many audio enthusiasts prefer valves made 60 or 70 years ago! You could argue that sculpture is just 'engineering' and applied science...but it isn't. 🙂
@@steven2809 maybe, but those skills should have never been "lost" or they ought to be able to be recreated along the way, at reasonable prices. We can hope. An industry such as audio equipment can't rely on a vanishing supply of old vintage tubes. Either new ones will be created that are as good (for a good price) or the industry will eventually die. Tubes have a service life as well, maybe 1000 to 3000 hours. They age as they are used. They won't last forever.
Sound differences of tubes mainly come from the differences in metallurgical make up of the parts inside the tubes. If all manufacturers of tubes had only one source of metallic components, it is very likely that all tubes of the same class would sound the same.
i just want this to work with headphones but it just doesnt and it makes me so sad. Everything that works is either ugli and cheap or pretty but expensive. i would die for something from schiit thats just a hybrid amp sized freya thats not the lyr
Reluctantly I bought one, sandwiched between my Schiit Freya + and Denafrips Thallo, to help with crappy mixing and miking…Had no idea what a massive improvement I was in store for. Would recommend a listen, around $290 US. Thanks for this video, just what I needed, and accurate.
I notice a big difference. NOS Sylvanias sound the best to me...followed by NOS RCA. In all fairness I would never have known that unless I lived with the Sylvanias for awhile and then for the heck of it...put in what Schiit ships with the F+. The ones that Schiit ships with the F+ sounds glassy and fake. NOS GE tubes sounds bad to me as well. Not the same bad...a different kind of bad. Sounds dull and lifeless. I'd suggest to anyone try NOS Sylvanias. If one can't afford a matched quad just get a pair for the gain stage. Will have to try.the JJS in the buffer though. I wanted a affordable way to play with tubes and the F+ fit the bill. I dont know how much of a mark up there is on Schiit products outside the US... but F+ may not be worth the hassle for many(just being honest :)). Would also highly suggest good quality tube risers. :)
Why do you listen to such crap and pretend it is audiophile equipment. This is strictly budget consumer electronics bullshit mass market appeal. That you are describing your fatigue with any equipment automatically disqualifies it as audiophile equipment.
Good review! Tubes are my business - my life really and I can confirm your impressions of the Sylvania 6sn7gtb's. A couple of things to add, the vintage Tungs you weren't able to find would have added a significant sonic alternative - they have great clarity and a depth of detail that just seems to go on forever. I like both the Sylvania's and Tungs equally and roll them alternately into my Universal Kit Preamp depending on what sound I'm into. For the CF stage (cathode follower / buffer) I recommend the GE 6sn7gtb, it works really well as a CF. And lastly those 3 tubes I mentioned are just some of the amazing sounding 6sn7 tubes, many more great sounding versions were made and are worth exploring/rolling .
@tubelab I have a hybrid integrated amp from Rogue, the Sphinx version 3. It has a tube preamp. I really like it but would like to try some different tubes for fun, any suggestions? The stock tubes are: 12AU7 tubes. Thanks for your help.
@@DANVIIL if your preamp section takes 12au7's then that's the tube to look for and there are a huge number to choose from, the 12au7 was one of the most commonly used tubes "back in the day". I can highly recommend the RCA "clear tops" an excellent all around tube with great clarity and an amazing treble, probably the nicest high frequency response of any tube ever made! We still have good inventory of both NOS (new old stock) and good used.
@@tubelab194 Thanks for your reply. Do I need 4 of the RCA :Clear Tops" for my Rogue Sphinx v3?
@@DANVIIL well that's easy to determine, just grab your manual and see how many tubes of each type are required.
Thank you ! I added Sylvania 6sn7 tubes as you suggested on the gain side of my Freya preamp and it sounded like a new preamp. It had a much larger sound , sound stage and punch . Like a $2500 preamp . I like the sound before but I hear the huge difference . You are great ! Thank you again .
Feel free to do more videos like this, don't put it away. Enjoy your channel, thanks.
Amazing review as always! PSA: try some 1950s or 1940s RCA tubes on the Buffer Stage, these are soundstage MONSTERS, combined with Tung Sols Schiit offers on the Gain Stage. It takes what the Sylvania tubes do to a whole next level.
The RCAs have a similar effect on sound as the Sylvanias, such that they smoothen out the sound, and increase sound stage, but to my ears and in my system, they just do it SO much better. You might see the "Grey Glass" going around, according my tubes guy, who lives and breathes tubes, as long as they are from the same time period, they'll perform identically. It's just that the "grey glass" is an easy way to know for sure that they are from that time period, but they are significantly more expensive.
I've got the Sylvanias still, and plug them in every once in a while to see if my opinion changes, they never last more than 5 mins before I switch back to the RCAs.
Let's start with a simple question: are you really into tubes? If your answer is "no" then chances are you'll be more satisfied even with a well designed integrated amplifier. As Freya OG owner who happens to be "into tubes" I can confirm that it's impossible to find a better tube preamp (new or used) at this price point on the market right now. My experience tells me also that probably few times more expensive tube preamps will not be as good. Am I sure of it? No. Of course not! I can imagine buying a higher end pre & amp combo coming as a pair from an established company that will be way better. But for many people who will not make such an investment Freya will remain a giant killer. For me it was also a killer for any solid state preamp that I tried. Why? Because I have a strong preference for the tube sound. As simple as that. To be frank I must say that it wasn't easy love at first but it definitely paid off once I learned to understand its limitations and requirements. First of all, if you're still with me: spend some time on research. 6SN7 tubes are considered to be the most interesting tubes available. Mostly because of their diversity. Sound qualities of many of the representatives of 6SN7, Soviet 6N8S (6H8C) and Chinese CV-181 (as they are basically he same type of tube) are well documented. After in-depth comparison of dozens of tubes produced across the world in the last 80 years I can only say that it is hard to be impressed with even one type used in this review. Surprisingly I found the process of getting to this point to be not as challenging or frustrating as you may think. It was an adventure. Pure fun for me. I'm not trying to defend Freya. I'm just this kind of person who loves discoveries of this kind. And I can assure you that there is so much to be discovered. Personally I achieved the most satisfying results with WW2 era VT-231 tubes from USA (black glass Ken-Rads, grey glass RCAs) and Soviet tubes produced in the 1950s ("round holes" MELZ). They easily blow any modern tubes, even very expensive ones, out of water. At the end of a day I cannot imagine being stuck with only one sound signature in my system that I couldn't modify or improve with a simple tube rolling. Does it mean that I'm not satisfied with what I have? Just the contrary - I love to have a variety of options thanks to different tubes. I have my all-time favorites but it doesn't stop me from discovering new tubes that offer different qualities. Sometimes I only spend few hours with them, sometimes they stay longer. But thanks to that I never feel bored or restrained.
Interesting. Initially I wanted to try the Freya+ but heard this reviewers reaction and decided otherwise. But now after reading your comment and his reaction to tube rolling I am back on team Schiit. LOL. I am new to HIFI and I tire easily with things, so I can see me trying the Freya+ given I can swap this out for that, etc.
I am still behind the eight ball with speakers, that may influence which new preamp/amp combo I may get. I keep flip flopping between the Klipsch Forte IV, the KLH Model 5, the Martin Logan 60 xti, and next week I am suppose to demo a pair of Canton Vento 886's for sale. To defend Klipsch, I have to say, back in the day they were all bright, but their present day Heritage Line they are actually a bit warm. I love them and my current vintage amp/preamp (Mitsubishi DAA15DC and DP10) will rock them. Their only negative is they do not image behind the speakers well at all, instead all the sound is in front of the speaker - which I like too. The KLH actually images like crazy, both behind and especially vertically and horizontally. The Martins are very neutral but have a really good tweeter to my ears. I would love to pair the Forte's with the Schiit Agir and Freya+, but I like the other speakers too. I wish I could afford them all! LOL.
I have had the Freya+ for a year now and have spent a lot of money rolling tubes. So far, I like RCA Grey Glass on the left side and GE 5692 Red Base on the right. These are not cheap, but made a huge difference in sound and what I was looking for. I like other combinations, but keep coming back to this set. Good amount of base from the Grey Glass and better Soundstage with the GE 5692 Red Base.
Would you be interested in creating a Google doc with your favorites?
@@Maver1ck911 maybe I’ll do that one day. I think a lot of the sound qualities will be based on your individual system, but each tube is unique. I have a pair of Grant Fidelity 6SN7SE Globe that work awesome in the left buffer stage. Big soundstage and airy, but a little bright.
@@a3marketing991 those Kenrads are wild. The black diamonds and black glass are both 400 a matched pair! US Navy NOS. I should check the supply system 🤣
To me this supports my view that that if you need an affordable balanced preamp, the Freya S is probably the better deal. At $599 it's more of a giant killer than the Freya S.
I used to have the Saga+ and found that even with a highly regarded NOS RCA tube, the tube buffer did not make a very noticeable change in the sound. It made everything slightly punchier, a bit fuller but also a little more aggressive. If I was looking for a simple SE pre to change inputs and remote control volume I would go for the Saga S over the Saga +
not gonna lie, I have tube rolled with Slyvania, and this review is dead on...
Great review. Your opinions of Freya + now match mine. It has a smooth sound with the right tubes. I actually prefer the solid state version (Freya S) which has more high and low extension and better dynamics in my opinion. I would be interested in your review of Freya S but realize that may be difficult in your location. I also fine Vidar very clear and dynamic. My two cents.
Hey, I also used Sylvania in the gain stage, and the JJs in the buffer! In my case, the Sylvanias I used were VT-231. I used that combo for over a year, and eventually changed out the JJs with a pair of new production Tung-sol tubes, which I found similar to the JJs in attack and clarity, but just less harsh and grainy.
Thanks for the info! Just ordered the vintage tubes today! Thanks again!
Great video. It just proves there is no answer to the question, "What is the best?" The best is up to your taste.
As tube roller I can confirm your impression about JJ tubes, not my cup of the. Miss especially are weak, empty. But they are very stable and can be a good partner for good gain tubes. On Freya you can give a try to both Tungsol and Electroarmonix 6SN7. I use them as input tubes on my Ampsandsound Mogwai headlamp and I deeply love them. Great video, thank you for sharing
Thanks for this interesting review. I was first turned onto non vintage tubes through a friends
Prima Luna preamp & amp combo and with some large Magnepans. The experience made a significant impression and I loved the subtle shimmer and airy sound; even though it all felt a bit underpowered or lacking some muscle at times. I considered the plus but went with the Freya S. Paired with an R2R, a solid power-amp and speakers that run warm, I found it to be a wonderful combination.
at last! a youtube reviewer that walks the extra mile and tube roll. this is valuable information that can save people a lot of money and effort. in the tube world everubody knows that jj's are crap any nos beats them.
Very informative and well described ... makes me want to buy the Freya + to run it with these recommended tubes 🙂
I went ahead and purchased the Freya N which is the nine pin noval version on closeout at Schiit. There are actually way more tubes available in the noval version. I ended up using Philips Holland 6dj8 in the buffer stage and US 6cg7 tubes in the gain stage. All tubes are NOS. The 6cg7 are electrically equivalent to the Freya Plus 6sn7. I took a chance and purchased single NOS 6cg7 tubes and although not perfectly matched found them close enough. My favorites are Zenith/Sylvania and Tung Sol with GE and RCA clear tops as runner ups. The sonics of the Freya N are complementary with my system and your thoughts on Freya align with mine. Thanks for the review.
Very interesting review. I have some nos tubes, valves. I use with my xduo headphone amp dac, and I can definitely hear a difference between different brands, old nos and new tubes, a good way to tune the sound to your preferred taste and not to expensive either.
Fine review, very well done!
I have owned the Freya+ for a few months now and I love it! I was using the stock JJs and was actually happy with that sound. I took your advice and ordered a pair of Sylvania 6SN7GTB tubes and put those in the gain stage and I am loving what they do. I think I will stay with this combo. My power amp of choice is the Jeff Rowland 125. Pairs very nicely with the Freya+.
It all comes down to personal choice. I used NOS Sylvanias along with Russian Electro Harmonix tubes for quite a while. Last time I looked, Schiit was using Electro Harmonix instead of JJ in their new units. They have trouble obtaining enough tubes for their production volume and maintaining their cost margins as a result of our support for the Ukraine. They have consequently made some solid state devices LISS Solid Stare Tubes to replace the tubes that just plug into the tube sockets. Customers who have tube access issues can substitute these LISS devices. I have moved on to a Rogue RP1 hybrid tube preamp with two 12AU& tubes. It seems that I've evolved into a tube front end with a solid state amplifier as a good listenable combination. The choices are infinite. Something new at Schiit, they now price the preamp at $850 but depending on one of several tube choices, the price will go up depending on tube quality.
what tubes are you running on the rp 1? i have vintage mullards on it
@@yaniv-nos-tubes Hard to go wrong with Vintage Mullards. I now have a RP5 with two vintage RCA and two vintage Mullards. I cryo treated all my tubes as I think it helps. Cheap to do and it adds some smoothness and detail. Actually cryo treated JJ tubes are quite nice and I a normally not a big fan of JJ tubes.
I bought the Freya N during the sale and had the same opinions about it being this and that. Picked up a Burson composer and after playing with the settings on the dac and turning the tubes off on the first setting I'm getting a large deep sound stage thats smooth and detailed. One thing that has really helped is I use a Burson AB160 rca buffer that matches the impedance between dac and Freya. Without it bass was lacking and nothing sounded very good.
I've tube rolled the Freya+. Stock tubes are useless, they are kinda hard sounding. I used Sylvania 6SN7 GTA, RCA Red Base 5692 and Pope 6SN7 GT (these are the Holy Grail ). The Freya+ cannot give you the full tube sound. Tube rolling makes it better but its not a day and night difference that you might get with more expensive tube preamps. It will not get very holographicand, it will not give you that much air. I got rid of the Freya+ in less than 4 weeks. 😂
BUT to be fair, you can't expect that much for the price. Best tube I would recommend willbe the Sylvania 6SN7 GTA. Its not overpriced yet. Just need 1 pair on the gain stage.
This is a great review and most helpful . Thank you !
They make a big difference. The old stock JJ tesla were very cool and bright. Almost solid state. The current tung sol 6sn7gtb are a better, but still not quite tubey enough. Sylvania, GE Eh gold pins and others will shape the sound away from sounding solid state. I chose "no tubes" with the freya+ and got my own matched quad. Came out to just a little more than it would have cost for the tung sol.
Thank you. Definitely a worthy update to the review that also proves that you listen to your audience. May I ask what is your stereo setup? I'm especially interested what preamp you have there.
I am using a preamp and amp of a small local manufacturer called Acoustic Invader (there is a video about these here on the channel). My DAC is currently Ladder Schumann (review coming soon) backed with Pi2AES streamer... And freshly made speakers called Spirit Wind (designed by Jeff Bagby made in a DIY manner).
@@iiWiReviews Thanks for the answer. I need to look up on them. I'll watch your review too.
After trying Sylvania, GE, and Tung Sol NOS with new JJ, I settled on Tung Sol NOS in gain stage with JJ in the buffer stage.
Great, I'm glad someone else likes JJ in the buffer stage. I feel they get mostly negative rep when browsing the web but I think they're great in that place.
Not sure about difference in sound but from experience there's definitely a difference in reliability between NOS and the modern reissues.
Nice review, thanks! Only thing I would have liked would be information on how long you burned in each pair of tubes before evaluating them.
I let them run for about 250h non stop before even listening. Aimed at 300 but was impatient. 😊 Didn't notice any changes during few days of listening after that initial period.
You are correct about all the things you said about the Freya+. I am in the US I am very interested in the Acoustic Invader Jfet balanced Preamplifier. I have tried many tubes in the Freya all with about the same results. Missing mid base, harsh fatiguing treble, hollow faded sound lacking the detailed base. I don't want to spend more on tubes trying to find what you described in the Acoustic Invader preamp. However because I live in the US I don't seem to be able to contact them. Or if they even ship to the US. I am hoping you can send me in the right direction to contact them or if they will ship to the US. Thanks man! Keep up the good work. Hope all is well in your country.
Hi John, you can write to Acoustic Invader at acousticinvader@gmail.com. Goran is usually prompt in his responses. All the best to you too! 🍻
I added a Burson AB160 rca buffer that matches the impedance of your source to the Freya and now have a very smooth and detailed sound with killer low end. I also don't use the tubes. I have it on the first setting.
If you can find them, get a pair of NOS CBS 6SN7 tubes. The best 6SN7. You want the best tubes on the input.
Thanks for the great review. Could you please tell me what text is on your Linlai tubes? Is it CV181-H?
Freya+ lacks some speed and precision that solid state will give you, even in its jfet mode the Freya S surpasses it in that regard. I found Freya S to have a bit of glare in my system though, so both have their benefits and drawbacks.
Very interesting video.
Awesome review, thank you!!!
I have a hybrid integrated amp from Rogue, the Sphinx version 3. It has a tube preamp. I really like it but would like to try some different tubes for fun, any suggestions? The stock tubes are: 12AU7 tubes. Thanks for your help.
I just like the tubes it came with *shrugs*
Good...that will save you time and money! 🙂
Wonderful explanation!!
Спасибо большое за обзор!
Thanks!
Thanks for your support! 👍
Thanks ! Good info
My favorite 6SN7 is a 6F8G
I've heard Bosnian amps are good would you recommend one which model integrated really with pre-out which is better the original freya or the plus?
Freya S would be interesting next... the "Nexus" circuit.
🤗👋 GREETINGS SRBOLJUB
We hope you are doing well in SERBIA 🤗
As for tube rolling …I never have had anything with tubes …but thanks to UTUBE and you and others I have been able to hear 👂 a difference in the different tubes …and as you and others have shown 🧐…tube rolling can be fun and functional…for those who have the budget and or the need…so through reviews like yours can be very useful 🤗…personally I don’t have the budget to try it 🤷♂️ …BUT THAT’S NAP….I can enjoy this with you and others sharing your experience and IMHHO…it’s like food 🥘🍲🍜🍱there’s so many choices and personal tastes…not good or bad…but just our personal preferences to choose from and we appreciate all these choices and look 👀 forward to your future Videos and thanks for the music 🎶 suggestions as well 🤗😍😍😍
🤗THANKS SRBOLJUB …. for your suggestion on Luca I’ve been listening all morning to his music 🤗👍😎😁😍😍😍
Everyone is talking about various tubes has anyone tried changing the fuse? Very highly recommended! Just like tubes you could go expensive or cheaper either way I heard more improvements changing fuse than any tube I put in. This is my experience.
I have had a Freya+ for a few yrs now...have tried a variety of tubes...after all is said and done I found NOS tubes not worth it...too much "white noise" in the background generally...best was new tubes....for me it was Electro Harmonix gold EH tubes...quad matched
Great material. Thanks. So, now we know that different tubes do sound different. But WHY? Can anyone explain?
That's like asking why do we like some foods and not others...🙂
My guess is that a) the working zone is not linear but rather curved and b) electrons are shot in discrete bursts that maintain the theoretical current as an average but these bursts still create an audible effect.
Thank you Srboljub for doing this tube rolling. I was seriously considering the Schiit Freya+ as a replacement for my Audible Illusions Modulus 2C (which I was able to repair/recap). But I found a Modulus 3A and while it sounds even a bit better than the M2C - it is now making very occasional *nasty* crackling and distorted noise in the left channel. I changed tubes, but it still happens. So, I am looking for a solid state preamp of excellent quality to go with my new favorite amp - the AkitikA GT-102 Z4. I am on the waiting list for the AkitikA PR-102 preamp, and I am also interested in your reference preamp. Do they ship to the US?
I have recently found that having a remote is not just a convenience; but really is required for listening to streamed music - because of the varied volume track to track.
Yeah, I fully agree about a remote. I personally wouldn't consider any preamp without it. Regarding the Acoustic Invader preamp - yes he ships it worldwide but I am not familiar with costs, best to contact the designer at acousticinvader@gmail.com directly and he should be able to provide more info.
@@iiWiReviews Thanks - I have just emailed them, and I will post on that review video any information I get.
The new DAC you mentioned that you are reviewing - the Ladder Schumann - is confusingly named. It is an FPGA DAC (like Chord?) but it is a brand called Ladder?
I believe it's a ladder DAC based on precise resistors with FPGA signal processing (basically all so called FPGA DACs use it for signal processing and some other technology is doing actual D/A conversion). That said, Ladder in this case seems to be a brand's name too. 😊
@@iiWiReviews Okay good to know. I am looking forward to your review/comparisons. If it is an actual ladder DAC then that bodes well to its sound - and it would make sense for it to be the "Ladder" brand.
By the way, Goran at Acoustic Invader replied promptly, and sent me a price list, and says that shipping to the USA would cost between about 260 euros and 350 euros.
Hi Niel. I have abandon any thought of a preamp without a remote for the same reasons. I would like to have a shot at a Croft integrated amp but no remote so that won't be happening. I understand Croft is kind of a quirky company she may never do it. Years ago I almost got a Musical Reference preamp but again, now it's a vintage piece with no remote. It' amazing how much I have to adjust volume while streaming.
maybe 1st ask if the Freya+ is worth it? I sent mine back after 7 days as it had no head-room vs many other pre-amps.
Sooooo happy that you did this!!! EXCELLENT…Did I miss which model of Sylvania Tubes that you used? Did not see in more info, and I rewatched.
Model numbers and place to find them would be very helpful as they sound VERY reasonably priced for tubes these days. The prices are insane, because of a perfect storm of horrors affecting the tube market. Help would be very appreciated. THANKS!
Please take a look at the section staring from 01:00 about the tube models I've got.
@@iiWiReviews THANKS! I was listening 👂…not watching 👀! LOL!
Did tube rolling solve the issue you mentioned before that freya could not “wield sound across the sound stage” unlike your other preamp
It made the soundstage more 3D for sure but that other preamp's soundstage is still wider and bigger. It is not a problem with Freya really, it is just a very strong trait of the Acoustic Invader preamp.
Are the liss tubes enough for the buffer stage?
Ahhhh tubes. Simultaneously the best thing ever AND the biggest nightmare ever.
You likely don't even what all tubes the same, because like transistors each type does better in certain stages. One of the reasons why high end amps sound better is because the matched pairs are hand picked and beta matched (same gain for each).
Interesting review, thanks!
I recently decided to order the MUSICAL PARADISE MP 701 Mk2 preamp instead of Freya+ .
Canadian design, made in China. (Garry the designer is in Alberta & replies promptly to any questions).$720 !
It allows capacitor and tube rolling including 6sn7/12sn7(with adapters) 6922/ 12ax7 and many others.
It is tube rectified, so more rolling options.
Not a balanced design, but has xlr connections.
Mine arrives next week. That's when the adventure begins!
Maybe iiwi will review it, now that you've got your tube rolling feet wet?
Is it worth it??
🎵🎶🤫🎶🎵
I have the MKll and Freya+…The MKll puts you in the venue with massive soundstaging, deep into the mix with palpable imaging…Still love the Freya, but the difference is mind blowing.
@@williammilligan1451
Thanks for the brief comparison.
'Nuffsaid;-)
Sounds like I made the right choice for my tastes.
I've been waiting for Thomas to finish his review.....Mr Vintage has it currently.
The Musical Paradise MP 701mkii is a gem.
I have both Mundorf SGO EVO supremes and V-Caps to roll now. Tube rolling monthly just for variety.
The tonally satisfying holographic presentation works so well with the Bryston B3sst amp and LRS / RELs.
I just love this setup!
No sch**t
🎵🎶😊🎶🎵
Excellent
Which preamp is the one you like better than freya?
As someone relatively new to using tubes in "higher end" audio (I grew up in the 1960s and our TVs had tubes, and even a few older radios, before transistors took over), I often wondered why an old (unused) Soviet or Sylvania or any other manufacturer's tube and a new one by JJ Electronics or once again, any other manufacturer, made to the *same exact electrical specifications* (indeed called the exact same model, say 6922 for example) would not sound the same? I mean, if I'm replacing solid state diodes in a circuit and I replace them with ones of the same specifications, the outcome should be identical, so why not for tubes? Are people just crazy or do they really hear a sonic difference? And if so, why? I'm a mechanical engineer (not electrical) so I am curious and would like to see some measurements to show the reality. Thanks.
Because measurements do not tell the whole story my friend....and different tube manufacturers have different levels of competence.
@@steven2809 perhaps so, but specs are specs after all. A tube that meets enough of those to be called a particular model like 6922 ought to be extremely similar. How would an old vintage Sylvania 6922 be different from a JJ 6922 to cause a difference in perceived sound quality? I know you say "different levels of competence" but making tubes isn't "magic" it is engineering and applied science that has been around for over 100 years now.
I take your point, but I'd like to see someone with the engineering knowledge do a comparison and show why one is better over another.
It would be informative to know, and be a guide to modern manufacturers as to what they ought to be shooting for in performance. Thanks.
@@rosswarren436 I know where you are coming from as an engineer... but truth be told many skills are now lost. Just making the getter on a valve is a work of art....and you have to ask why so many audio enthusiasts prefer valves made 60 or 70 years ago! You could argue that sculpture is just 'engineering' and applied science...but it isn't. 🙂
@@steven2809 maybe, but those skills should have never been "lost" or they ought to be able to be recreated along the way, at reasonable prices. We can hope. An industry such as audio equipment can't rely on a vanishing supply of old vintage tubes. Either new ones will be created that are as good (for a good price) or the industry will eventually die.
Tubes have a service life as well, maybe 1000 to 3000 hours. They age as they are used. They won't last forever.
Sound differences of tubes mainly come from the differences in metallurgical make up of the parts inside the tubes. If all manufacturers of tubes had only one source of metallic components, it is very likely that all tubes of the same class would sound the same.
i just want this to work with headphones but it just doesnt and it makes me so sad. Everything that works is either ugli and cheap or pretty but expensive.
i would die for something from schiit thats just a hybrid amp sized freya thats not the lyr
Why doesn't it work for headphones? I actually want one for headphones only (I don't have speakers at all).
3 big Tube companies closed worldwide.
Would you ever consider trying a Lukius EQ?
Reluctantly I bought one, sandwiched between my Schiit Freya + and Denafrips Thallo, to help with crappy mixing and miking…Had no idea what a massive improvement I was in store for. Would recommend a listen, around $290 US. Thanks for this video, just what I needed, and accurate.
What sites did you buy the new tubes?
I used e-bay and looked for reputable sellers with high ratings.
Schiit tube amps are not really tubey sounding in general. Some of them actually sound like solid state.
I own both Freya+ and Freya S, prefer the Freya S, more clarity way better bass.
Which power amps are you using?
@@frederf69 A pair of Schiit Vidars as monoblocks, Denafrips Hyperion and SMSL VMV A1
Give the linlai at least 100hours to open up.
I notice a big difference. NOS Sylvanias sound the best to me...followed by NOS RCA. In all fairness I would never have known that unless I lived with the Sylvanias for awhile and then for the heck of it...put in what Schiit ships with the F+. The ones that Schiit ships with the F+ sounds glassy and fake. NOS GE tubes sounds bad to me as well. Not the same bad...a different kind of bad. Sounds dull and lifeless. I'd suggest to anyone try NOS Sylvanias. If one can't afford a matched quad just get a pair for the gain stage. Will have to try.the JJS in the buffer though. I wanted a affordable way to play with tubes and the F+ fit the bill. I dont know how much of a mark up there is on Schiit products outside the US... but F+ may not be worth the hassle for many(just being honest :)).
Would also highly suggest good quality tube risers. :)
Hey man, afaik buffer stage tubes don't need to be matched.
Serbia? I thought you were French all this time. 😀
Whaaaaaat? 🤣
tubes are distortions and coloured, they have to sound different.
Yes...just like REAL musical instruments....🙂
Why do you listen to such crap and pretend it is audiophile equipment. This is strictly budget consumer electronics bullshit mass market appeal. That you are describing your fatigue with any equipment automatically disqualifies it as audiophile equipment.
Interesting, please continue. 📖🖋️
Moral of the story - stay away from Schiit, if you don't want to spend the rest of your life rolling tubes.
I disagree. He found a good pair to go with rather easily. I did the same and did so with out much knowledge at all regarding tubes.
Thanks!
Thanks for your support Chad! 👍