Why There's No Turnstile Jumping in Vienna
Vložit
- čas přidán 13. 05. 2021
- A short look at Vienna's refreshingly turnstileless public transport.
This video was made possible thanks to the generous support of my Patreon members. If you wanna join them in helping to keep my channel going, or simply to get free e-mail updates for all new uploads, Patreon's the place.
/ tapakapa
You can also contribute to the channel with a simple money transfer.
No sign-in, no recurring payments.
donate.stripe.com/00gbJ13A8dw...
MERCH
teespring.com/stores/tapakapa...
SUBREDDIT
/ tapakapa
Sources and Further Reading:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_s...
www.researchgate.net/publicat...
www.researchgate.net/publicat...
www.researchgate.net/publicat...
www.ots.at/presseaussendung/O...
onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs/...
#Vienna #PublicTransport #Turnstiles #Subway #TurnstileJumping
In my city tickets are cheap and convenient while fines are high and cumbersome. That's enough for me to just get a ticket.
"convenient" is important. Where I currently life, the public transportation system is needlessly complicated with many "nice" option "for different customers" creating a situation where locals use a monthly/annual subscription and tourist... I can not explain a tourist what ticket is best for them. "Typically" for two person, it the "five person day pass ticket for the network" is the best option, but... if you do not understand why a ticket for 5 persons is the best and often cheapest option for two people, you can try to understand the point system or just use the "pay per ride system". If that is to simple, you can use "special offer tickets". Offcourse, you can also combine a "network pass" with a "pay per ride" ticket to reach your end destination, but then you might be cheaper off using the "special offer tickets for weekends" that is valid for 4 people and the bigger network. Confused? Yeah, here a discounts for students and other groups, that only apply to certain products on offer.
@@sarowie I hear that. At this time and age convenience is the selling point. If you use the public transport a lot there are quite a few choices for month/3month/yearly subscription that is paired with your credit card or dedicated ID.
If you only travel occasionally, there are wireless payment terminals at each door in a tram/bus/whatever and you just use your card or phone when entering and leaving. You are then billed at the end of the day depending on how much public transport you used, capped at like 3€ if you use it all day.
@@cubiss1273 May I ask in which city you live?
@@random8149 Sure. I live in Brno, Czechia :)
@@cubiss1273 Nice city! I heard there is a famous university there, and a weapons factory
I (coming from a no-turnstile-country) was actually quite surprised seeing them everywhere in Tokyo. If there's one country in the world with enough cultural pressure to make everyone buy tickets, it has to be Japan, right?
Tbh, the fare system in Japan is way too complex to have a turnstile less system
Their turnstiles are always open
I've lived in Japan for 4 years. It's basically the same thing with those Suica cards. Most of the time no one is checking if you scanned one. For the metro, some smaller stations don't even have staff there. It's a massive city well-connected to other prefectures so the zones are necessary. Tapping with Suica gives you a small discount and avoids buying separate tickets for transfers. They're also very understanding if you made a mistake. I once lost my very expensive bullet train ticket and managed to explain it at the gate by telling them my seat number. For reserved seats they don't check tickets, they do a headcount. Basically it's an honestly system with high compliance and the main reason for the design of ticket gates in Tokyo is for passenger convenience and handling a massive number of people. They have a museum exhibition showing that Tokyo would have queues backed up at the gate and it wouldn't cope with the capacity of the trains if they used the old 3-pronged turnstiles.
Something interesting I experienced in Seoul was that they have gates, which are usually in the open position. Usually you just scan your card (or ticket, but the cards are just so useful and cheap that why not) and walk through, no problems. However if you have the audacity to try and walk through without scanning (or just funble miss the scanner like I did...), a flap from each side roughly between knee and waist height pops out and stops you as you try to walk through, and I'd imagine that it might catch people off guard if it's their first time doing it, it certainly makes you look like a bit of a fool. It's my favorite kind of enforcement: it looks like you can cheat, but if you try, it stops you right in your tracks after you have decided to do it, and makes a little example of you for both you and yourself to be ashamed at
Oh and did I forget to mention it's almost as efficient as if there were no gates at all? It even solves ticketing between different lines / companies, by having a transfer gate between lines.
@@ninjaz5736 It's basically the same system in Tokyo (and in my experience Taipei. Hong Kong, and Singapore too). When the gates close on someone it's usually a minor inconvenience to hold up the queue but I wouldn't assume they're trying to avoid paying a fare. More often they've forgotten to top-up their card or renew a commuter pass (there's a fare adjustment machine in the gates to fix it). Occasionally in pre-covid times it was a tourist fumbling their tickets. Compliance is so high that I think staff are mainly there to give directions and monitor security issues.
I think the randomness of ticket checks also reduce the ticket evasion rate. Think about it. A machine is always in its place all the time. It's predictable, and that's why it's easy to evade. Now with random checks you don't really know when a ticket manager's going to show up. The pressure not only comes from the 'fitting in' part but also the anticipation.
(Sorry for bad English, it isn't my first language.)
It may not be your first language, but you sure type like it is
@@eclogite awww thank you :)
Ah, but you see, if the frequency of the checks is too low respect to the cost of the fine, it may just be less expensive to just pay the random fine
@@Beregorn88 Not in viennas case. in my 12 weeks of being in vienna for a course i got controlled at least 4 times. i think its about 100 euros if they get you. So if you live in vienna it's better to just get a card if you don't get around in your car. (Which is a nightmare there, especially parking.. Park & Ride is my best friend there.)
Honestly in my city theres almost never ticket checks but everyone still buys tickets. Even though ive never seen anyone fined, they just had to walk off with the auditers and buy a ticket for the next bus/monorail
As an Austrian I was shocked to find that even all the train stations had ticket gates in the UK. The stations felt a lot less like a public place.
That's defo not the case. Within cities they'd usually have them, and the big commuter towns might, but once you get out into residential areas (or even just non-main stations in smaller cities) there's usually none in sight. However, those routes are the ones that usually get ticket checks on the train itself.
In the Tyne and Wear metro in Newcastle upon Tyne the barriers are often deactivated.
Yeah thats the case at big stations but on the smaller village county trains there are non. I never buy tickets for my 2 hour riud trip commute each way each day and never get caugh5
Completely true and tickets are rarely checked.
I'd assume it depends where you live and how much space they have for turnstiles. Here in Seattle, we have a similar set up. They randomly check everybody on the train.
Finally, he remembered his password.
Yes, he did. He finally did.
I STRONGLY DISAGREE! Being as famous as I am on CZcams, I know that it gets hard to read every comment I get. I try my best, but I am just so famous, that I can't do it much longer. Sorry, dear thekd
its been 3 weeks stfu
It's literally only been 3 weeks
@@Laittth ya and now he has his password
To me it's also the stress factor. If I know I'll hop off after one or two stations, then I might take the risk (if I'm really lazy or forget to take some money) but if I have to take a 10 minute ride or longer, then I'll gladly pay a few euros just so I don't have to be anxious the whole time.
It also depends on location. In my city, the checks are usually done on the border of the city center. The tickets are free for all registered residents of the city though, so... the only people who are in danger are tourists and transfer students
@@Yorick257 That is somewhat touchy. As a tourist, it is sometimes hard to understand the maps, zoning, ticket options and validities. Especially, when a network has decided to use a mix of "start and destination" and "zones" as in: The tickets are for zones, but the ticket dispenser is asking for "start and destination", but then again prints out "zones".
in vienna, that would make no sense since they control in stations of the subway and not in the trains. (Different for trams and busses)
But, even if you pay, you'll remain anxious through the whole trip with the fear of losing you ticket. I traveled to Vancouver, which has that system, and I hated it.
Why don't you just use cards? Paper tickets are so outdated.
honestly, I would love a random 2 hour lecture on public art.
Yeah, probably learn something, right? Is this more of that European socialism I hear about? Where you break a rule and they fix you so you enjoy life more and stop breaking rules?
@@BenjiQ575 If that's what their idea of rehabilitation is, I wouldn't mind becoming an EU citizen.
That would be better than having to pay a big fine, or even jail time for fare evasion.
Some people here in Hungary, Austria's cosiest neighbour (lol), actually argue that getting on the bus for a single stop's distance shouldn't cost exactly the same as it does for a 60min+ trip on the line going from one end of the city to the other -- and yet it does, and it keeps public transport surpisingly easy and straightforward for everyone, including those of us who really don't feel like doing math. Just buy a ticket, single price, and you go as far as you want to go. However, therein lies the catch: most of our fare evaders are exactly those who hop on for only 1 stop or 2, especially if they do so relatively irregularly. It's a fair enough assessment that the longer you stay on board the more potential you have to be caught, but if you do regularly travel, even if only such a minimal distance, you'll find it easier to simply buy a monthly or yearly pass -- for the cost of about 20 single tickets, you have truly unlimited, risk-free permission to travel whenever and wherever, however short or long.
in short, for regular commuters, fare evading is simply not worth risking it -- the math says no.
And yes, we do the turnstile-less, human-inspector style too.
In Czechia, each region has their own transport authority whom sets the rules, but all of the systems are either zone or zone-relational tariffs (zones being what most people are used to from London etc., meanwhile zone-relational calculates how many km the zones are apart and calculates a fare based on that). If you don't wanna mess with how to use a zone-relational tariff (and it's really easy, just say from where to where you're going, because 1 zone == 1 city/town), you can buy a daily/weekly/monthly pass for the entire region - this is actually really nice for going on trips and stuff, generally ends up being cheaper and has a lot less hassle than regular tickets.
The main advantage of having a regional transport authority, is that you don't have to check what operator operates which route, the ticket is valid for all forms of transport, whether it be buses, trains, or even boats.
We have also recently gotten OneTicket, which is a national ticket system spanning across regions and operators. The issue with it is that it's only meant for rail and usually ends up being ever-so-slightly more expensive on routes where you don't switch operators, but it adds a layer of simplicity to rail transit, which is a thing that we've needed for a while now.
365 Euros for a season ticket is basically free, that's amazing
Being an anxious driver, and with increasing gas prices. My dream is to live in a place like this.
@@co2_os that's why walkable cities and good public transport are important
Tomorrow Austria will also start something called "climate ticket", where you pay around 1000€ a year and then you can use about every public transport in Austria, including the transport systems in cities.
365 € is what gets you around 2 months worth of public transport in major German cities
Prague's season ticket is 144€, and the quality of the system is very much comparable with Vienna (though it is smaller)
nyc is infamous for its turnstiles. because I use a wheelchair and it’s so hard to get a pass that lets you through the gate that means I’m basically locked out of every station, even the very few ones without stairs :(
):
Isn't it mandatory by law (in US it's ADA) to mount lifts there?
@@MsZiomalloNot when the station was built pre-ADA. They do have to add them at major renovation time. About 25% have them.
The stations without stairs should have wheelchair accessible entry: I can see there's not a lot of point installing wheelchair accessible entry that only leads to stairs, but when that not the issue then surely ADA applies?
Damn, in Buenos Aires we have turnstiles in almost every station and fare evasion reaches 30% on average and 70% in some railway lines. We definetely need to learn much about Europe
Not all of Europe unfortunately - this is more of a German thing
not really, the people in Buenos Aires just need to pay the damn fare.
@@Septimus_ii German? pfff
@@BOMBI77766 why pay for fares when the government constantly fucks you over, is corrupt, and the transportation sucks anyways? They can suck a fat one if they think I’m giving them another cent
@@metaplays9817 get over it
It's the same in Porto, Portugal. You have to validate the electronic ticket but there aren't any physical barriers, only people that randomly check for tickets and fine you
He did mention Porto in the video, but that is neat!
Same in Germany. It's just more efficient
Yes! I knew there would be someone else that knows about Porto!
Lisbon just does high things 🤷♂️
Same in Ireland, most of the time no one checks your ticket unless your taking a really busy route
Instead of permanent steel turnstiles, we sometimes have human turnstiles in specific stations, which you cannot hop. I mean, you can, but since they're real people, you're usually disinclined.
Haha, that was a weird experience indeed :D
I went to Wien on a trip before with friends, we bought tickets and then we were like, "where do we check them? There are no turnstiles"
That also lets to funny experiences in Germany, where certain tickets (but not all) need to be "entwertet" (literally invalided, but meaning "validated" as in "time stamped to become valid") before starting your journey.
@@sarowie the worst is Berlin, where you get a ticket, hop on the train and then realize there is nowhere to stamp your ticket. Apparently you have to do it before getting on. And they don't put the stamping machine next to the ticket machine. No, they hide it at the other end of the bloody platform. I swear, Berlin's system is designed to make tourists pay 60€ on top of the ticket price.
As someone living in Vienna, for me it was the total opposite when I went to Rome! I was like: wot ze fack is zis bullshit. Please just let me enter the train lmao.
Also, public transport in Rome sucks, it's disgusting and dirty, would not recommend. Love my viennese public transport though. 💗
I mean to be honest with yall we do have a ticket stamping machine at the entrance of the stations where you validate your ticket so technically there is something Inbetween but you can just pass through there is no kind of blockage whatsoever
tbh, I've never seen any check-barriers in Germany, even outside the big cities. I actually live in a village and the system is exactly the same.
Now that I think about it, neither have I.
but I'm pretty sure that the fare evasion rate is higher than in Vienna
@@gotofalograce9926 which might be due to the fact that the Deutsche Bahn is simply a piece of crap. Maybe this is only true for my city and its vicinitiy, but over here you consider yourself lucky if the train is less than 10 minutes late. I avoid it wherever I can, but when I have to use it, I’m basically preparing myself for waiting a good 20 minutes more than what the schedule says.
@@luchusemann2839 The ÖBB also got it's problems but is usually a reliable form of transport. And the inefficency of the DB is known beyond german borders.
@@luchusemann2839 That's what you get when you try to optimize away wasteful redundancies to save money. Apparently, the redundancy is a necessity to have some reserve in unforeseen cases. McKinsey's consultants seem to believe that you can have a system that runs at nearly 100% efficiency and still has reserves, and they don't see the contradiction.
This is similar to the Light rails in New Jersey. The tickets are literally $2.25 and the checks are random. The ticket for not having a ticket is ~$70 the last time I heard and failure to pay the fine can straight up result in a warrant being issued for your arrest. It's truly worth it to just pay the $2.25.
....is that Jersey law? I live in Pittsburgh and damn I just want to be careful lol. We have a lovely tram system
@@3bydacreekside less a state law and more a function of how the fare collection system works. Light rails in particular generally don't have the infrastructure to physically force riders from needing to enter the train through specific gates via all-around fencing because the system is not physically enclosed -- compare to, e.g., the NYC subway where all access to the trains via stations is controllable via walls or elevated platforms.
Yeah same in Minnesota and California, in my experience. This isn't unusual
It’s the classic trick of having to explain yourself to a person being enough of a deterrent
In Poland, these guards are called "canaries" which sounds lovely
are they, per chance, dressed in yellow?
@@iuriepripa3171 They are usually incognito, sometimes in a black or yellow reflective vest. The name comes from the color of the ribbons on their hats they used to wear
It used to be that you stamped the tickets ourself with a constantly changing pin pattern on the bus or trolley. Then they changed to ink time stamps.
Then the railed Hussars arrived
Does that mean if something is not right (eg gas leak), they are the first to die, as a warning for the customers? "Canary in a coal mine," if you would.
I'm a Canadian living in Vienna for school and I always find it so odd seeing places I know/live beside in these videos
In NY, the long island railroad still uses people to check tickets. It isn't supposed to be random but due to the short distances it takes (compared to other regional rail) it is very possible for you to get on and off before anyone checks your ticket. And interesting side effect is that your can re use your ticket that day if you didn't get checked.
This system is used by many railway companies in Europe. In my experience, at least in Croatia, Slovenia, Hungary, Austria and Czechia. In Croatia, on the suburban line in Zagreb, I can usually travel for about 3-5 stations without having my ticket inspected, especially during rush hour.
Same for SEPTA in Philly.
@@2712animefreak yep, I'm Czech and this is definitely the case. In trains there's usually an inspector walking around, inspecting and marking the tickets. Some stations don't even sell tickets, so you may have to buy it on the train from the inspector, which means you travel free if they don't reach you in time. Though I usually didn't face that, as I just bought monthly tickets to get to school, and those basically give you unlimited rides on the chosen section.
Fancy seeing the use of the NYC Subway turnstiles in this vid...
The MTA has been losing millions because of fare evasion. And now the pandemic has put another dent in the MTA's financial situation. Hemorrhaging more than 200 million each week. Inspired by the Santiago protests in 2019, people did a mass fare evasion before the pandemic to advocate that public transportation is a basic right and thus, should be free. But the chance of the MTA actually changing the fare to free is the same as a kangaroo punching you in the face in Atlantic City on St. Patrick's Day...it won't happen. To the MTA, every dollar counts because of their situation. But they have implemented a Fair Fares program as a compromise to help those with low income. It slashes the fare in half
I chose that kind of turnstile intentionally because NYC is the typical turnstile jumping location in my mind. Before seeing films set in NYC, I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone jump a turnstile.
Why do i always see your comments everywhere
@@Tapakapa It's a real problem here. And the funny thing is, on select buses, which is NYC's approximation of BRT, we do have off-board fare collection where you have to get a receipt prior to boarding and fare evasion is far lower. The reason they don't do it on the subway is because some stations get so crowded during rush hour, it would be practically impossible to enforce.
mta deserves it
The MTA decided the easiest thing to do was to hire literal thousands of cops to stand around and enforce fares rather than just cut the fare.
"Working with unknown number is kind of pointless "
Tell that to my math teacher.
I was about the write "Same in Prague", but then you mentioned it in video :)
I stopped in Paris once to get a coach to London, I had to wait by a trian station and saw nearly every single person jump the turnstyle as if it were normal. It was late at night mind you
Ah memories of my trip to Paris,when a group of 10 people went with me through the turnstile a la Human Centipede with only my ticket.... 10 meters down the hall, ticket check 😂
In Los Angeles nobody checks your ticket unless you get on the random train car w the police standing in there 🤣
Surfliner they check it (almost) every time. Metrolink they really don’t care.
For Los Angeles it really depends on where in the system you are. Going through union station at high commute time on a regular basis, I would say I had my card checked once or twice a week. But on the more distant stations of the light rail lines, I find it very rare that there are any ticket checks. With Metrolink it seems to depend on how the conductor is feeling that day. The Surfliner checks them consistently, except in cases where the train is crowded to the point of standing room only.
I used to live in Denver, and when I did take public transportation I never encountered a turnstile, oh my gosh I was extremely unaware that they even existed until I took a trip to Washington DC
Whenever i go to belgrade, you aren't normally checked for your tickets on trams, but there are sometimes random checks done by humans, but they never made a fuss if you forgot to pay for you ticket, they simply let you pay for one in front of them, and then walk away.
I thought you were cpg grey
heavily discounted
he is, but more Wiener Schnitzel
What a good timing! I did need a toaster.
Well unless you have 62% of a toaster lying around, you are out of luck.
Very consistent in uploading! Appreciate it
It's called a high-trust society, which comes from a homogeneous population with a shared culture, morality, and language. Every member of the society feels like an owner rather than a mere user of the public services.
While I think one could make the case for Vienna having high amounts of trust, I'm not sure it would be accurate to describe it as a homogenous population and claim that to be the root cause of this. In terms of religion, different types of Christianity as well as islam are presnt in large numbers. Ethnically, large amounts of people initially from the Balkans, Germany, and turkey are in Vienna - again very heterogenous. In terms of population growth, the city has grown about half a million since 2000; a figure that is often thrown around is that over half the population has some degree of migrant background.
I would suspect that the success of the Viennese transport system has more to do with how it is run. The city of Vienna seems to be unafraid of less market oriented policy (it has one of the largest social housing stocks in Europe) and I get the impression it tends to approach things like transport in a more government-intervention sort of way than other cities.
I think it also has to do with fear and uncertainty. If you just have to jump over something, there is only one moment where you have to be careful not to get caught. With random checks, you aren't even safe when you get in the vehicle.
That's how it works in most places in Poland I think(at least for busses/trams), and probably a lot of places around the world. There are only these 'validations machines', you have to check your ticket with, but these are already inside the vehicle and serve just to mark a ticked as "used" because you can just buy more of them earlier and use as needed.
...Usually it's much easier/cheaper to get some long term ticket, but I still refuse to believe less than 2% people avoid buying one here too.
Those also exist in Vienna. At least two years ago when I was last there. I still have four stripes left on my 8 day ticket...
Buying a ticket is just easyer
Liebe den Stil der Videos. Der Wien Bezug im Stile von CPG Grey is einfach leiwand! Weiter so!
Add to this that stations without turnstiles are much easier to design, because you don't need to airtightly separate one part of the station. So shops amd routes can be laid out freely, and there doesn't need to be a huge area with a long row of turnstiles somewhere. Getting on a bus is much easier and quicker as well when there's no ticket checks every time, which means the bus can get moving along much faster as well, making for a faster trip for everyone.
2:25 and sometimes a bus/train that can catch fire from one moment to another (it's the case of Rome, where it - and the city's public transport company ATAC - had become a kind of meme in all of Italy)
I guess the trains haven't been running on time for a while now
In Auckland NZ it's only the major train station that has turnstiles, and all the ticket stuff is handled by scanning a card.
We've also got officers manually checking if people have scanned their card before hopping on a train and dishing out hefty fines.
And in Wellington we just have officers walking throughout the train between stops to check tickets and Snappers while it’s in motion
I think there is another factor to consider.
If everybody would evade paying, it would generate a lot more money to check tickets more often.
If nobody would be evading, there would be fewer checks, since employing people to check tickets is also costly.
In reality it is somewhere in the middle, and you can just vary the number of ticket checks in such a way that you maximize your profits. In the end the goal with random checks is not to make you more honest, it is to generate a constant profit independent of the percentage of ticket evasion.
Therefore, this strategy should be far superior to alternatives.
It works the same way in some places in America. The Dallas, Texas public transport system works like this. Fares are $6 for all day, and $3 for either AM/PM. Students and seniors get discounts.
2:17
That is literally my Patreon character doing the exact thing I’d do in that situation: looking at the short times and wondering ‘Why doesn’t Australia have this?’
How did you get here yesterday?
If I had to guess, Patreon
@@thatdude9091 makes sense
It's normal for me :D Ahoj from the Czech Republic. Amazing videos keep up the work.
~3.6% fare evasion in Prague's public transport. Considering the Czech mentality, that's an unexpectedly good result, and apparently it keeps dropping every year. I guess that the availability of SMS payments and discounted long-term tickets/cards (Lítačka) had a significant effect on this.
Thanks CGPGrey 2. Very cool to drop in my recommendations.
cursed name
I'm used to this here in Oporto area. Both in the metro and suburban trains. We just validate the ticket. Very cool!
londons tube map is super easy to follow!
*crys in zone 9*
*CRY IN THE ABANDONED AREAS*
unless you are a yank in which case it's best you stick to the central line.
14 days in vienna without getting checked, but it was so cheap that i don t regret paying.
i've been living in vienna for 2 years and use public transportation every day, so far i've only been checked once
19 years in Greece never been checked xD mostly ticket-less
~5 years in Dublin never checked
I really like the melodic voice on the trams announcing the next stops.
Really well made video! In the Netherlands they have turnstiles, but only in busier and bigger train stations. Once you get to the more rural sratuons, there are tap on / tap off pillars for when you get on and off the train instead of turnstiles. Doesnt actually block you from getting on if you haven't paid.
Caracas: *It's free subway fare*
Fun fact: The cover of the magazine says _'super chancellor stops comet'._ [2:18]
Sad fact: That's an accurate depiction of those subway magazines. And the rest of the austrias media isn't so much better.
Great job and good luck 👍
thanks for the Denver shout out
Still waiting on my 0.28 worth of a toaster :/
Where I live, there are ticket people who ask (on the train) if you have a ticket, if you don't they ask where you got on and where you will get off and sell you a ticket. Some times I would be able to get away with not getting a ticket on a busy train by looking like someone who does have a ticket. Then I became a regular and the ticket man always recognized me, asked me how my day was and immediately printed my ticket before I could break out my wallet.
Works like this in Phoenix Arizona USA. And it's fantastic keep things moving quickly
In the Netherlands only metro's in Amsterdam and Rotterdam had turnstiles. Yet, with the introduction of the contactless ov-chipcard they have become common on all major train stations. And they are actually quite handy as the ov-chipcard has a check-in / check-out system. And the turnstiles or barriers greatly reduced the number of missed check-outs.
Yoooo new tapakapa banger! Dankeschön!
In Denver, the lightrails work pretty much exactly like that
Common in most of the US! I live in Denver too but it’s the same in Charlotte or Houston as well
yeah pretty much the same for the TRAX in salt lake as well I believe
Here in Western Australia, we don't have turnstiles at all, we have fare gates at some major train stations, but several lesser stations are completely open. Revenue protection officers make random checks of trains, usually during peak times. And our primary ticketing system is an RFID card similar to London's Oyster Card that is good for everything. Just tag on when you start your journey and wherever you go or what mode of transport you take, you just tag off at the end and the system calculates the cheapest fare for you. Plus you get a discount on fares with SmartRider and an even bigger discount if you set your SmartRider to automatically add money once it gets below a certain amount
In Sydney, Australia they pursue a hybrid option. They have turnstiles on major or inner-city stations (e.g. Town Hall) but go without them on minor suburban ones (e.g. Hawkesbury River). They have also changed to a tap-on tap-off Opal card system.
Here in New Zealand, we have a similar turnstile-less system, but instead of a random spot check, on trains there's someone who takes note of who gets on at each stop and walks through the train collecting only those people's tickets. On buses, there's the option of buying a paper ticket and presenting it to the driver, but most people have a card to tap instead, and since the only place to get on is in clear view of the driver, while there's technically nothing stopping you from just walking on, no-one I know has ever done so
A fellow JAFFA?
@@TomorrowWeLive Nope, a Wellingtonian
"365 Euros for an annual pass"
Londoners who have to pay over 3000 Euros for an annual pass:
👁👄👁
As a person from the northern-balkans country of Hungary who visited London..
...your public transport was a big letdown. We expected to find somethjng nice considering how long your undergound eail systems are and how long ytime you had to improve on them.
Nope!
- prices sky high
- teensy-weensy rail carriages, where you can barely stand upright without banging your head
- not even remotely enough of them to serve to population
- worse fucking hygenie than what we have on our public transport - and thats a BIG fucking achievement.
@@martonlerant5672 Being so old, is what causes so many problems, as it was built with much less people in mind. It's much harder to upgrade the rail network than to build it right in the first place.
We have the same problems with our sewers aswell.
@@samuelsmith2707 Budapest was the second city in the world to have an underground railway, yet M1 is neither dirty or crowded.
@@samuelsmith2707
Issue isnt the age of the oldest parts of the network.
That was clear both in London - and here in Budapest on our oldest line (dating from 1894).
The issue is no new lines since the 1990s - as London didn't stop growing, unlike its undergound rail system.
...and ofc. lack of maintenance.
Not cleaning the thing, and leaving it in a decrepit state has nothing to do with its age.
Ther are more annual pass holders every year than drivers 2019 852.000 year tickets
It is the same in salt lake city, utah in the us. a 2 dollar fair gets you unlimited travel for 2 hours. They may or may not check your ticket randomly, but if they decided to check tickets on your train, they will catch you because they stop the train until everyone's tickets are checked. last I checked it is a hundred dollar fine for not having a ticket.
In Australia we only have turn styles in main city stations.
if you get off the train one stop before the CBD you can skip fares all you want, provided there isn't some police officers trying to prevent a stabbing.
What about this:
No tickets
Government funds transport with transport tax
This means you're paying for it whether you use it or not, which encourages people to use it, as well as making it easier because there's less faff
But... But.... This is communism.....
And communism is bad!!!!
(Sarcasm)
Also poor people tha they really need it are going to use use it...
And you can not have that....
That would probably be quite expensive for the tax payer especially if it means that rail-based transport is free aswell which is why tiny countries like Luxembourg can only really get away with it since their network is so small and subsidising free public transport is only slightly more than subsidising paid transport.
It would especially be hard to implement if public transport was operated mostly by private operators in a free-market like it is with bus transport outside of London & Northern Ireland in the UK where companies compete on price and the best service, you make it all free and then there is essentially no need for competiton or really any private operators in the market so over time, service levels degrade in value as subsidies fall
That is basically the intention between the turnstileless system as well. I'd we willing to bet that due to sampling bias (noone checks tickets in 16. and 10th districts and less checks at non-peak (work-based) times) and survivorship bias (people with neither money nor ticket hide, run, fight or are simply let off) there's more like 5% of people going ticketless on any given day. There are people who are strategic about avoiding controls and skipping fares as well (I used to be one between being eligible for the extremely cheap school ticket and the still laughably cheap student ticket.) So factoring in time of day, the fact that "human turnstile" controls are only easily implemented at certain sub stations, remoteness and type of public transport as well as where you enter within a vehicle (leave plenty of people left and right so they get caught or have to fumble their ticket out which gives you time to slip away).
@@wclifton968gameplaystutorials You can save a lot of money on infrastructure maintenance, since rail based transport has much lower maintenance costs than car infrastructure and you still need to move the roughly same number of people roughly the same distance. Not to mention that transport is a trivial factor in a country's budget.
I looked up the numbers for The Netherlands (because those numbers are easy to find) and infrastructure & watermanagement is about 3% of the government budget, or 13 billion (9 zeroes). about 2% of that 13 billion is rail while road maintenance and expansion costs are about 25% of that 13 billion. If you make trains free in the Netherlands, that would cost 3.94 billion each year (= operating costs of the privatized Dutch rail), making rail cost about 1% of the national budget. So if the reduced strain on the road network is 1/25th of the current road maintenance costs, then you're breaking even. If it is more, you're making a profit.
And that's not even mentioning that rail is much cheaper and simpler to scale up than car traffic, nor that the entrance gates are not free so not having to pay for those would save a bit of money too.
There’s a simple way to prevent fair evasion. Make the punishment high enough that anyone who can buy one will. And make the cost low enough that everyone who needs one can buy one. Vienna has got it figured out
In Vancouver, Canada we had no fare gates on our mass transit until a few years ago. They weren't added to reduce fare evasion though (which was already very low). Instead it was to be able to charge variable rates based on distance travelled. The added cost of maintaining the gates is actually quite a bit higher than the increased revenue from the drop in fare evasion.
Here in Sacramento, California (US), the "lightrail" (trams) are on the honor system with no turnstiles. When I was in Melbourne, Victoria (AUS) the "trams" (lightrail) were free in the central business distict. Fare payment was only checked when leaving downtown.
the Netherlands has something similar
a lot of large train stations have turnstiles but most small stations do not, and they don't exist at all on busses
Turnstiles on busses are pure evil! The bus either has to stand for a good couple of minutes or leave a lot of people behind during rush hours
Train stations in Belgium and the Netherlands were a bit confusing with an Interrail ticket, I think you couldn't use it to open the turnstiles.
@@jakedotnet i myself only have experience with the OV-chipkaart, but I think you should be able to scan the tickets too
@@jakedotnet if you're coming from Germany to Arnhem the conductor gives you a paper with a QR code to scan that will open the barriers 10 times. So you don't need to ask again next time. With an interrail ticket you hit the assistance button and talk to someone on the other side and they'll remotely open the gate for you
When I visited Vienna, I couldn’t believe that public transport was soo cheap. When it’s cheap and you get a good service, it’s worth paying for but in Manchester, particularly with rail networks, it’s expensive and the service is poor.
In the Netherlands you check in by scanning a subscription/top up card like the oyster cards in London but on smaller stations there's no gates or turnstiles, you just scan your card on a little pole on the platform. Only the (central) stations in medium or large cities have gates.
Here in latvias capital Rīga we also just buy a ticket and occasionally someone in uniform comes and checks it and it's just so nice and easy. When I went to the UK and saw all of those gates it felt very weird and uncanny
Here in the Netherlands it's about half/half. The more crowded, urban stations all have gates, the more quiet, rural stops do not (this goes for both trains and rapid transit/heavy rail/metro/subway/underground/whatever you want to call it).
Still, turnstile jumping almost never happens, because it's too obvious. Most people just tailgate.
Besides, hardly anyone uses physical tickets anymore here. It's very convenient to scan your universal travel card at departure and destination and have the system charge your balance the correct amount automatically, train transfers included (given you don't transfer between different providers).
Route planning can be done easily through an app or website, which shows alternative door-to-door routes, associated trip durations, pricing and more.
I've seen forced gates in NL quite often though. They're more fragile than those turnstiles.
Personally I was and still am offended that I have to through such a cattle gate. I am not a cow and I do not appreciate being treated like one. And now I understand it is not just more expensive but also less effective? Now I am not just offended but also disappointed.
Similar system again here in Budapest, with sometimes extra ticket checkers at the stations. The quality of the vehicles is varied, and at best pretty okay, so fare evasion here is more prevalent (hard to find statistics, but various sites report between 12% and 40%).
One of the arguments made in London at the time barriers were introduced when the Overground system came in, transforming unloved, grimy wayside stations into a newly branded network with better service, was that by limiting the platform area to those who have business there, you eliminate a lot of gangs of youths loitering and being threatening to others.
I lived in vienna and getting a yearly ticket is a bit over 1Euro a day, so it's just plain easier to get a Jahreskarte (Year Card) Which you can pay in a monthly amount or the whole sum.
I got a turnstile advert after this video from ThruLane. I thought it was a joke by you at first.
Why are they... Why are they advertising on CZcams?
How often do people watch videos before they buy a turnstile for their business?
@@richardavsmith Just got one today. Works well, now I can get money from people using the toilet in my house.
@@TheNoGamer44 What's your ROI?
They do this on Manchester Metrolink too
i went to richmond at the edge of london the other day, has become an even become tourist destination because of ted lasso so a lot of people were going there, because of the gates there was such a HUGE cue to leave the train station, because for 1 you need to stop to scan/feed your ticket, and 2 the unreliability of ticket scanners no matter where in the world you are
the amount of people i saw whose ticket didnt work and had to wait to call over an already overwhelmed station staff member to let them through was crazy considering it just added to the slowness, while in copenhagen even on peak hour there simply was no pedestrian traffic at all!!! the fear you could get your ticket checked is far more reliable than you'd think than a station gate
The lettered buses are the same in Seattle where they don’t require any check as you get on the bus but employees will check passengers at random intervals
Änd aua nekst pihß 😂
Griaß eich Leitln, i bin da Kwotndialektkommentah ✌🏻🇦🇹 hobts an schenen Tog olle miteinond
Ehdli sach min fründ
No
Living in Switzerland, i always just thought that was the normal way public transport worked
Switzerland is mostly an exception on everything lol, y'all live nice
The one I have been to is Porto, definitely a different experience, but surprisingly easy to get into, especially when you consider the filthy, substandard counterparts in the US.
Honestly, they made it really convenient too! Me and my father did a "day trip" (the day before our flight left from Porto) and figured out the day pass ignores the zone system (perfect for day visitors, infrequent travelers, etc.) it was super simple. I'm pretty sure how it works is a "normal" ticket (basically an NFC card) has a few "charges", and on every platform, both by the entrance, and right next to the trains, there are little scan pedestals (not turnstiles, just little bollard looking things with a diagonal surface with the scan logo for the system on it).
10/10 might actually use public transport when I visit cities in my good ol USA if they were anywhere near as clean or easy.
in salt lake city we don't have blocks, however due to an app where you can activate tickets on demand, anyone who evades but sees a ticket officer can simply just activate a ticket on the spot.
My favourite James May story is the one where some californian asks a German if they will drive without a (valid) licence.
The German's answer (IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO DRIVE WITHOUT A LICENCE!!!) is the exact reason why German speaking countries can have public transport without the annoying turn styles.
Reminds me of this meme thats captioned "There are two types of civilizations"
And there were 2 pictures of vending machines. One, in the US, with a literal metal cage around it,
and one, in Japan, with just glass and you can see into it.
In Denver the RTD lightrail system has no turnstiles as well. The ticket checking is also randomly done, but as far as I’m aware, all that happens if you don’t have a ticket is that you get kicked off the train (and are free to wait for the next one). Recently, they introduced an app for buying and showing tickets on your phone, meaning that you just have to keep an eye out for fare-checkers and buy a ticket on your phone before they ask to see your ticket.
In Skåne, in the very south of Sweden the local train system used to operate on the honour system as well up until around 25 years ago. But instead of introducing turnstiles, they invested in having train guards to check everyone’s tickets. They also perform safety tasks. I have a feeling that the reason for opting for this, “full train experience” is partially the human interaction aspect, partially the benefit for passengers to have someone to ask, but definitely the safety aspects as the system has grown significantly, both in ridership and physical size since then, reusing old existing lines that had been in disuse for passenger traffic for an extended period.
It could be worth noting that the system is somewhat of a hybrid, in the sense that it resembles a metro system in usage patterns and frequency within the Malmö/Lund area, and beyond it is more of a regional system. There are many minuscule stations that would be quite unreasonable to have staffed and mechanical devices such as turnstiles would just be cumbersome. Also, since local fares are using a staggered distance based structure (short, medium, and region-wide) rather than a zone system, and no check-in/out style ticketing, there isn’t really any need for mechanical barriers.
Over here in Queensland, Australia we use a "touch on and touch" off system along with random human checks.
So the vast majority of people have a card which you simply tap against a dedicated card reader thing at the beginning and end of your journey.
So don't have to worry about figuring out the correct fare for zones, or bother having an annoying paper ticket.
Also none of those rollers.
Same in the Netherlands.
welcome back my second favourite stick man ♥️
Thank you, my third favorite viewer ^_^
@@Tapakapa 🥺
@@earicsohtun7202 congratulations
This honestly makes sense in a lot of ways. When you make the cost (both financially and in terms of convenience/value for money) of buying a ticket low and the cost of evading high (whether financial, social, or psychological) it becomes completely rational to just buy a ticket.
In Brisbane, Australia only the train stations in the CBD have barriers. The majority of stations just have points to tap on/off throughout the station
Same in Sydney. Generally speaking most peoples destination station is in the CBD, so it's kinda redundant to have barriers at suburban stations. Plus seeing alot of stations run with no or limited staff these days, it's hard to catch barrier jumpers at these stations, and ridership (thus potential fare dodgers) are often low enough that the fines wouldn't pay for installing and maintaining the barriers anyway, so there's no point.
This is also how it is in germany. We're to scared to be embarrassed by not having a ticket to try.
Also our public transportation is good enough to be supported.
I think fare doging is much more common, even with the frequent ticket checks
The issue is price and ease of use
70€/month for a transit pass that only goes around 3km from the city center, is too expensive and not worthwhile
Where do I claim my roughly quarter of a toaster?
That's the challenge, innit.
@@Tapakapa Damn, how else should I toast my 0,28 bread?
In the uk on our national railways we have probably about 15% of stations with gates and the rest don’t but when the gates are shut there is always a person there to watch and check tickets in the case of a malfunction... there are also random checks on the train here so it’s like a mix of the American and European systems
DFW does this too, though it's a bit more complicated since it's 3 separate, but interconnected networks. It's $3 (€2.45) for a half-day pass and $6 (€4.91) for a full day on one system, double that for regional. Plus, tickets for all the systems can be bought through an app, which makes it super convenient.
It was weird coming from a city with turnstiles (Atlanta) and seeing how DART/DCTA operated. I'm used to it now, and it's honestly really nice.
The pee-reeking buses and turnstile model is that of the NYC subway...before the new OMNY contact-less NFC readers were added over the last 2 years.
Man, you hit me right in the feels.
Main problem of turnstile-less is when you forget when your annual ticket ends and suddenly you become a criminal for a day 😬
No then you just tell the controller that you have forgotten it he rights you a piece of paper and tells you to bring yours to the ticket office the next day.
This actually happened to me a few days ago. I just opened my app and bought a new semester ticket before I left the station. :D
I watch these Videos both here and your other channel
Here in the Netherlands we have both systems for rail traffic. As a rule of thumb most large stations use gates where you can use normal tickets, qr codes and the oh so lovely ov-chipcard. (One card for all public transport, be it the train, bus, metro, tram, and even some ferries.) While most smaller stations just have a couple of scanning poles at the platform ends.