I’ve just picked up my first 12 string much trickier than what I thought chords are great in individual picking it’s very hard to hit the notes that you wanna hit but overall a beautiful sound and I Will get better. It was the Jimi Hendrix footage of him playing the 12 string see my trainer coming that inspired me to get a 12 string because I’m a blues man thank you mate great vid
I just purchased my first 12 string two weeks ago and I’m obsessed with the sound. I just haven’t been able to put it down. I found your video this morning and I found it helpful and addressed several of my questions. Thank you for posting this. All new 12 string owners should see this.
Hi, It is so good to read comments like yours, and find that I have been of help to my fellow guitar pickers. Thankyou and I hope you continue to enjoy your new 12 string
Sped this video up to 1.5x and used captions; you are understood clearly and I spent about 13 minutes watching it. Unfortunately I may need the remaining 4 minutes tuning my 12 to pitch. 👍🏼
Thanks for the advice and other comments on strings. I usually play my classical and 6 accoustic but I bought a Fender 12 to play some older pop tunes and fell in love with the octave sound. It has not been too burdensome to tune/JJ
Great video. I play 12 and use the same strings!. Have three 12s. My Takamine Jumbo is a monster but the sound is amazing, especially through my Katana amp. Sounds like an ORCHESTRA!. 6 string players often say they're too hard to play and have to tune all the time. But it's what your ear desires. To me, 100% worth the effort. So beautiful to hear.
I had a Martin 12-string from the 60’s that, unfortunately, got stolen. It had a bow in the top from all the string tension, but I still liked it. I need another 12-string guitar.
I’ve also got three 12s- I’ve had a chronic and progressive case of guitar acquisition syndrome which started many years ago and branched off into an amateur luthiery hobby, so most of my acquisitions have been from pawnshops/Kijiji/Facebook marketplace etc., and have generally needed some significant TLC to make them playable again- for me that’s about 75% of the fun. My first 12 was an early 90s Indonesian Yamaha which I found in the early 00s in a pawnshop with unplayably high action from being left sitting in the window of the shop for who knows how long tuned about a half step ABOVE concert pitch. Top was pretty badly bellied, and neck relief was way out of whack, but there was enough adjustment on the truss rod to get the neck straightened, and I was able to file down the saddle to get it playable again at standard pitch with extra light strings, so no neck reset needed (which was good, because at the time I had never done one yet) and I was hooked on 12s. Next 12 was the only guitar I’ve ever owned which didn’t come to me used- a 20teens Takamine with piezo pickup. This one was actually a long service award from my employer at the time- deal was that employees at 5 year increments could pick a merchandise item up to a specific value depending on length of service from any local business which was a customer of our company, and this one at the local Long and Mcquade fit the bill. The piezo pickup meant I could take this one out for amplified jam nights. After a while, though, I found I wasn’t happy with spacing of strings- the neck was a bit wider than my old Yamaha, which I actually liked, but the paired strings were actually further apart, especially at the bridge end, which I found clumsy when trying to do anything other than strum cowboy chords. I eventually came up with a way to adjust the string spacing which didn’t require filling and re-drilling the bridge pin holes or replacing the bridge entirely, so I’m much happier with it now, but in the meantime I found what has been my favourite guitar for the past 5 years or so- an early 1990s Charvel/Jackson with piezo which I found on Kijiji while visiting relatives on Vancouver Island. The Charvel needed some contact cleaner for the sliders on the preamp, but plays like butter, stays in tune beautifully for a 12 (I can whack away at it for several hours of jamming with an ensemble, and it’s only very slightly out of tune by the end of the evening), puts up with seasonal temperature and humidity swings on the Canadian prairies, and has amazing tone both acoustic and amplified. There’s a weird sort of accordion meets pipe organ overtone (perfectly in tune, it’s not like a chorus pedal dissonance) which sometimes comes out when playing some chords, especially when amplified. It’s got a bit of a goofy looking body shape- neither a dreadnaught, nor a jumbo, nor a parlour shape, it’s more of a Breedlove looking thing, with a narrow waist and a bulbous top bout and a cutaway. Mine is beautifully appointed, though, with a nice sunburst finish and lots of sparkly abalone inlay. Bottom line, if you’re looking for a 12 string and you happen to find one of these, 10/10 would recommend.
The 12-string is a truly remarkable instrument. As you described in the video, it is orchestral. I've been playing one for many years, and it is my preferred style of guitar. Like you, I find it no harder to play a 12-string than to play a 6-string. Tuning is problematic but so much as to call it a show-stopper. I have an older Alverez (dated from the mid-80s) and a newer Takamine, and I use them in settings where mine is just one of many other guitars. With the vastly broader sound, it stands out and fills in subtle nuances to what we are playing. Thank you for your time and explanation. I encourage anyone who is thinking about buying a 12-string to do so. It will provide you with a rewarding experience.
Hi Joe , thank you for a well put comment about 12 string guitars. Whilst they are not for everyone, I wouldn't want to be without one, although i use them far less than my 6 strings. Thanks for watching.
Cool Video!!!! I got a 12 string about 30 years ago and just taught myself. It is a great sound and people respond to it. I used to play in front of our house and all the neigbor kids would come out and start running around. The sound seems to generate a positive vibe. I really like your video. 12 string is awesome. I need to bust mine out. Thanks for the inspiration.
I owned and played a 1960s Yamaha 12-string guitar (they were solid wood, non- laminated and made in Japan). Tuning was not as much an issue when I tuned it "looser" or a full step lower. That with a capo allowed me to take some of the stress off the neck and still play along with others without any difficulty. The Yamaha had a beautiful sound. I could play it softly without losing any of the unique sound of a 12-string. If I really got after it, it would overpower any other instrument in a band without electric guitars in it. In short, I loved it. Sadly, it was destroyed in a plane crash (which very nearly destroyed ME!), too). I opted not to replace it because I was buying old Martin and old Gibson six string guitars and a 12 would fit neither my apartment nor my discretionary budget. Great video. Thanks.
Hi Dan, I think y first 12s were Yamahas as well.the ones with the slotted headstocks coincidentally. That would have been in the late 'seventies, early eighties.
@@SillyMoustache I remember that I bought the guitar from a guy who needed tuition money for school. I had it for about 10 years, give or take. I never was certain as to when it was made. My guess was based on what a dealer told me. I ASSUMED that since that was 1971, the guitar had to be at least 3 years old, but that was a guess. I remember that it had the most beautiful sound that I had ever heard coming from any kind of guitar. I also remember that it wan not beat up or scratched up so I knew it couldn't have been too old but I was never a to pin it down.
@@dancolley4208 wow, you were in a plane crash?! That's my worst fear, well one of them. I never used to be scared, I went to Turkey in 2005 and we hit major turbulence, bouncing all over and it didn't bother me at all. Now I'm terrified, I think it's because of planes going missing and being shot down etc. Was it a commercial plane, like a proper airliner or a small plane? Smaller planes are way more likely to crash than big jet planes. Thank god you're still here, but it's sad you lost your guitar. Did anyone die in the crash?
The 1st person I ever saw play a 12-string was Bob Gibson in the early 60's. Gibson was a 5-string banjo player & played his 12 string like a banjo. He had a very unique, rolling sound that made you want to play a 12-string. He played a Vega & a modified Martin 6-string Guitar (2 holes for the extra added strings were drilled through the Martin Logo at the headstock).
@@oldmaterizz4516 Totally up to you, your style, music, etc. I'd never do a gig with just my 12, and when I do gig, I'd only use it for about 10-15% of the repertoire. Swines to keep in tune, but great sound.
Yes in concert Leo Kottke always says " a 12 string player spends half the time tuning and the other half playing out of tune" as he continually tunes I love 12 strings and often take the high strings off the Low E and A and get nice bass lines so it is a 10 string
Leo K uses a lot of alternate tunings. I’ve seen him twice in small venues and play 12 myself but what I saw him do on his 12 was humanly impossible. He’s a god on the 12 string. Taylor has made a LK model that’s built for C# tuning. Would love to own one.
Hi thanks . very enjoyable and informative . I fell in love with 12 strings years ago and only really play them now. But I am predominately a strummer. You develop a different style strumming 12 strings , no need to always strum all 12 at once and damping with your palm intermittently . It works well for me. Play Yamaha, Eko, Eros and others for different sounds. Many thanks.
Been playing my big 12 string Gibson since the sixties. It went everywhere with me. Lost count of the times I had to clean beach sand out of the tuners and yet today, she sounds and plays as smooth as she always has. Been repaired a couple of times but age, wear and tear as well as the tension of those strings does take its toll. I didn’t seem to worry much about how much it might be worth today....I didn’t buy it back then as an investment...I bought it to play. It’s funny but, I never really thought about the tuning issues. Most times, I would take her out of the case, tune her up and play for hours with just a tweak here and there. As you said, 12 strings can sound great even slightly out of tune. Thanks for the great video.
I enjoyed that & agreed with al of it. I bought my EKO 12 string in 1971 and it still plays fine. I added new tuners which hold the tuning better, but the nemesis of playing out of tune a lot is still there. A completely different beast to any 'normal' guitar... Regarding your dislike of strumming, I found that strumming with the flesh of my fingers and thumb gives a very pleasing background sound...try it and let me know if it appeals. I'm the only person I know who does it, so no problem if you are not keen.... Keep playing, young man, it is a lovely pastime... Love from England.
Hi John, I used to know your namesake who was a great luthier and guitar repairer back when they were an endangered species. Any relation? after sixty or so years, I've kinda developed my own styles, of flat picking and fingerstyle, but I only use picks on my guitars. Thanks for watching.
Oh that Harmony is just fantastic! Obviously the Martin is a beauty too but the Harmony sounds like it’d jab you in the tummy and say “oi! listen to me, I’m awesome.” In a good way 😊 Great video Andrew
Hi Lewis, The Martin is p[robably more "sophisticated" but the Harmony is a little rougher, and has more of a period sound, even though I've recently discovered that it is not as old as the Martin (but both from the '60s). We must get together again soon!
@@BlackWhirlies Hi, sorry to be so late replying. I've not ben that dsicplned but I probably do take the Martin out more then the Harmony - but as all our gigs for this year have been cancelled ....nothing goes out at present! Same for everyone I guess.
One more thing to add, I think, is that the strings tuned an octave above the lower E, A, D & G are physically located on the BOTTOM of the pair, so yes, if you pick up, you hit the higher note and then the lower note. That's one thing that gives the 12-string a unique sound. So instead of your thumb playing those lower bass notes while your other fingers are playing higher notes, your thumb is also playing two strings the first of which gives a higher, ringing, sound. Find the chords to the Eagles Hotel California (capo on the 7th fret) and play around with the picking and see what I mean.
Thanks for the information. I own a Takamine GD30CE 12 string and it never goes out of tune. I actually find it easier to play than my Martin DRS2 six string, probably because I’m using much lighter strings
I own a Takamine 12 string. My favourite instrument. I play bass, but do all my practising on the 12 string. I've thrashed it and the action's still good. Generally holds it's tuning. You get used to it. Strengthens your hands too.
In chasing down information on a 1928 William H. Bendler guitar (hand made in Baltimore, MD) I talked to Holzapfel's son who was running a luthier shop a few doors down from the Greyhound bus station in Baltimore, MD. At the time he was about 70 years old (mid-1980s) he elder Holzapfel had worked in Bendler's shop during the beginning of the 20th Century.
@@SillyMoustache Unfortunately, that was the end of the story with Holzapfel. The original Bendler shop is gone, replaced by the entrance ramp of the Jones Falls Expressway in downtown Baltimore, MD. The guitar was a parlor sized six string that I had put back together (top and back were partially separated from the sides, bridge was loose, frets were sprouting). The luthier was Chris Warner in Hanover, Pennsylvania. Functionally, it worked after that but the frets were paper thin and the tuners (brass) were worn so badly that you could only get it in turn with ultra light strings. This experience let me down the path of transferring my woodworking hobby into becoming an amateur luthier. Among my toys that I've restored are a 1890s minstrel banjo, a mandolin-banjo of the same vintage, a 1968 Hofner Bass, a 1973 Fender Jazz Bass and several other six string archtop guitars from the 1950s. The real gems in my collection is the Martin-Coupa circa 1847-1850 still with its coffin case, (I know of only two others that still exist, one in the Smithsonian Institution and one in Canada.) and my 1918 Gibson Style O archtop.
Hi Andy its just old Don here from Hamilton NZ, I find your videos excellent, thanks for taking the time to do it all, good explanations to, kind regards 😊😊😊
Hi Old Don, receiving comments like yours, is what keeps me doing them. I'm aware that CZcams is making channels like mine as they convert from a video sharing site to an advertising site with increasingly restrictive actions and interruptions to videos.
Great video Silly Moustache! I've used a 12 string for years but never heard "half the time tuning and the other half playing out of tune!" haha.... I guess I'm pretty that my Takamine holds pretty well.... but I'll definitely use that line on stage. Thank you my friend.
Two strings per bridge pin is still with us. Recently Taylor introduced their new V-bracing on many of their ranges. Because of the geometry of the bracing which converges towards the bridge, there wasn’t enough room for a deeper twelve pin bridge so each pair shares a specially designed pin. I’m not convinced by the V-bracing hype, but I’m a Martin fan anyway so I hardly would be. I played my first 12 string when I was 15 and always liked them, but haven’t owned one for years. Yes they’re a bugger to keep in tune. Great video as ever.
The effort it takes to press the strings against the frets greatly depends on the string gauge and scale length. Elixirs feel heavenly and are played with much ease but heavier Ernie Balls can be quite stiff and hard - especially as time goes on.
And, of course the action. I don't use coated strings nor Ernie Balls. The Martni wears D'addario EJ37s, and the Harmony wears Martin M190s. both tuned down one tone (D-d)
Charamambo makes Stainless Steel Wound Requinto Strings which are actually Medium Gauge Unison tuned 12 String Guitar Strings. They have a lower tension because they're designed for D Standard Tuning (same tuning you use which helps with singing the high notes without straining your voice), it's a whole step below E Standard Tuning, they do that so that it's easier to play in Accordionist friendly keys.
Thank you but the 12 string guitar uses octave strings for the 3rd4th,5th and 6th courses. and even if they were in stock importing into the UK from Mexico would probably by very difficult and expensive post Brexit.
@@SillyMoustache That's true but those strings are Stainless Steel so they're less likely to Tarnish and Corrode than Bronze strings. Ukraine needs our help but I did find some Rouxinol R30 Nickel Alloy Strings for the 6 String Guitars that include a Special Pick and have a Wound 2nd String if you want a different sound, and they're inexpensive. They do have Color Coded Ball Ends (like the D'Addario Strings) so that's the good thing.
@@RockStarOscarStern634 Thank you for your kind thoughts. at this time, I'm very happy with the strings and set up of both of my 12 strings. I use EJ37s o the Martin and M190s on the Harmony and that is what the nuts are cut for. I use Wegen TF140s on both as I'm most particular about my strings and picks - preferences developed over -probably about forty years. Thanks again.
Your video was my main research material before buying my first 12 stringer. Now I own beautiful slovakia made dowina and love it. It's a lot of fun. Thank you.
Very good! I never thought about changing to a 12 String, for a song or two, them back to my six string for 6-8 songs. This would change the sound and keep the gig fresh! Good idea! Thanks for your time! Marty Cann
My next guitar is going to be a 12-string. Love the sound and I find it's well suited to my particular style of play (i.e. rhythm and chords). Thanks for posting.
I bought a 12string Eko Ranger guitar from Minns Music in 1968, it was good to play but it was leaning against a Triumph Herald and the guy started the triumph and as he drove away, not noticing the guitar he drove over the instrument and snapped the nut off! I glued it back on as it was a clean break with Evostik Resin W and I have still got it but rarely play it as compared to my Yamaha Jumbo from 1980, it resembles a cheese grater for my finger ends! Lovely sound and as you say, powerful but they must be slightly out of tune for that 'jangle' of notes. Thank you for your short video.
I have several 12-strings. The best one is a Hofmann, which is no longer made. It is built on the Gibson scale, which is a bit shorter than Martin, and has 14 frets to the body and is NOT a slot head(I dislike slot heads). I play with a thumb-pick and fingers or just fingers, and it responds to a light touch and does not break up when played hard. It is accurate up the neck and is easier to play than a 6. It sustains forever. It is easy to tune and it stays in tune. I discovered that it really resonates to E, so I have it tuned in “open D”, up a whole step. I use Daddario extra lights. It is the best guitar I own. Bottom line- whether a guitar is a 6 or a 12, playability and sound depend on the build, and not on the name on the headstock. Finding THE ONE may not be easy, but you will know it when it happens.
You are amazing! Thank you for the video. I’ve scanned below and you’ve answered everyone’s posts..! Very honorable, indeed! You sir, are a true gentleman.
I began my guitar playing on a twelve string in 1973. I STILL do not understand why 6 string players are so Intimidated by 12 strings. I can, with a pick, play the strings that I want just like a 6 string ! Same with finger picking. Great video, Sir !
Hi ppg, I don't know anyone that is intimidated by 12s, but I know a fair few who just aren't interested in them. I admire your ability to fingerpick them - doesn't work for me ... although can't remember the last time I tried. I'm old and set in my ways! Thanks for watching!
The 12-string’s character is beautifully caught in the saying: “When you choose the 12-string, you spend half your time tuning and the other half playing out of tune.” (I noticed that near the end of your video you referred to this.) I’ve played the 12 for sixty years, and my first one was a Harmony very much like yours.
Yes, the cliche is unavoidable, sadly, but the fact is that the slight disharmony is a fundamental aspect of the sound of a 12 string. Starngely my '60s Harmony is easier to tune than my Martin, which has a slight intonation issue. Thanks for watching.
Don here again, just quickly, I loved the sound of your 'Harmony' 12 And the little bit of 'walk right in' I play it myself, but on my New Yamaha TransAcoustic, it has the 3 buttons ( setting controls ) and I cheat by having the 'chorus ' setting up which emulates a 12 string, regards Don 😊😊😊
Thanks MR S. answered all I wanted to know. I purchased one recently and had that same problem with tuning. time to down tune and carry on. Many thanks Dan from London.
I owned a Martin 12 years ago. Fabulous sounding guitar and have been kicking myself in the back side since i sold it in 1970. I never had any problem getting it tuned up and once in tune held it very very well. Im going to get another as soon as i gather enough scratch. Probably another Martin but could be swayed to a Guild if i found the right one.
Hey SM, Same age as you. Been playing a 12 string since the 60s. Currently have two Taylors, a 355 sapele and a 458e-R rosewood. Oddly enough you added 'Walk Right In' back into my repertoire after many years when I saw your video on AGF. I tune down a half step to D#. I like that you mostly play without a capo, but the G7th Newport with comp pad works great if you need one. I fingerpick everything. About tuning, Michael Cooney said once on stage, 'it's like trying to tune a centipede'. Vivid phrase. He would actually open tune on stage. He was/is fearless, and a great guy. I cheat and use a digital tuner and Elixir Strings. Anyway, I always pay attention to your videos, especially about 12 stringers. Thanks, and keep 'em coming.
Hi, I've 4 of them an old Suzuki, a wonderful K Yairi, an Ovation, and a one off Electric that was made from Brazilian Walnut, Jazz master shape and laminated neck, made by J Crocker who made a 12 for J Page and weighs an absolute ton I love them all at 74 years.
I have a Taylor 352ce 12 fret 12 string that I attempt to play. As I only attempt to play guitar at all! 😂 As to one of your comments here, it is interesting to note that Taylor has redesigned their newer 352 12 string with their new V- class bracing and redesigned the bridge to use only 6 pins. Two strings per pin. Their claim is that the two strings per pin improves the intonation. I cannot prove nor disprove this as I have not played, or attempted to play, one of the newer ones. Just thought I would throw the information out. Thanks for your videos. They are always informative and entertaining.
Hallo, und danke, dass du dir meine bescheidenen Videos angesehen hast! Ich freue mich, dass meine Aussprache leicht verständlich ist. Zu viele Briten sprechen beiläufig, vorausgesetzt, alle verstehen es.
A little late to this conversation, but to add something I've been doing for years now with my unison strings. I'll tune the top unison string to pitch, then tune the bottom one just a little sharp. This gives a "chorus" effect to the sound, or more shimmer.
Loved seeing(and hearing) your Harmony H1270. I had one for over 50 yrs! Finally had to sell it on as at my age (72) I was unable handle the 2 inch nut any longer. I do have another 12er with a 1 7/8 nut. I can get around that fairly well but I miss the sound of the Harmony. Cheers!
@@SillyMoustache Ok so I can tune it the same as my 6 string without over straining the neck. When you say; thin strings, is that due to tightening them?
Hi ! I hope you're well. Nice video, and very nice guitars. The Martin is in beautiful shape for one that age. I'm a huge 12 string fan, and I've always had at least one in my arsenal since I was in my 20's . (I'm 65 now) There's something about them that I find inspiring to play on and to write songs with . Orchestral is the right word. Just wanted to say hi and thanks for the nice video!
And Hi to you too! The '64 Martin was returned to the factory and "rebuilt" so, frankly, I don't know how much is original, or whether thry junked the original and built another with the same serial no. It hasn't been used much in the last year for obvious reasons, but I checked it out last weekend and it's still fine, and pretty much intune! Maybe, one day!
@@SillyMoustache Hopefully you can get out and play! I know it got worse again in England in recent months. But hopefully the vaccines can help with that, and you can start playing again. By the way, I'm so used to tuning my Guild twelve string, it never really takes very long. I don't know what others do, but I start wi the low strings using a strobe tuner, then I tune it's octave or double string by ear. It's pretty fast. Obviously the high strings don't have octaves but I basically do the same thing. Tune one using the tuner, then its double by ear.
Great video. Never played an acoustic 12 string, but in 1980´ies I had an electric double neck Ibanez that was a heavy beast. It did sound beautiful, though and gave a full harmony to some songs in our band. Too bad, I sold it when I stopped playing in a band. Now, age 67, I play again and miss it (my back does not)😁
Alex Lifeson's famous Gibson doubleneck had "Heavy" engraved on the 12-string headstock's plate and "Bastard" on the 6-string headstock's plate. I'm sure you can relate to that!
I'm 62 and started playing the 12 string guitar when I was 16. I have discovered that the trick to tuning is in the tuners. You need a good German precisioned tuning peg. I like the Schauler tuners. They don't slip.Next, you need to know how to wrap the string around the tuning pig and through the hole so that the string locks underneath the winds of the string. Once I learned to tie my strings on right I never had a problem with tuning afterwards. The first few hours after your guitar is tuned are the hours that you want to perform with the guitar because the strings will stretch, over time. I played 6 hours straight after putting on my new strings. the guitar did not go out of tune once it was a beautiful night!
Hi Nancy, I hadn't heard of Schauler tuners - you don't mean Schaller do you? String winding is indeed important and I have other videos about that : czcams.com/video/TGEtQmFUqRE/video.html I don't use my 12 strings anything like as much as my 6 strings, and even less in this time of plague, but I find that strings last very well on both. see : czcams.com/video/JvoEo8GoWOk/video.html and czcams.com/video/qrj3Zb4r4o4/video.html Thanks for watching.
@@SillyMoustache Well hello. Yes you spelled it correctly. I wasn't sure of the spelling, that's why I added the discription about it's German precision. I've put those tuners on every guitar I've owned. They just don't slip.
Hi, great video .. I purchased an Indonesian Samick 12 stringer 20 yrs ago it plays tremendously well and has a great warm tone, it has a smaller body and narrower neck than most 12 stringers I call it the "Pocket Battleship," it is the flagship of my guitar fleet and is my main "songs" guitar, fingerpicking is ok if you really want to work at it .. I removed the octave G string and replaced it with a normal G string which takes the "jangle" that afflicts 12 stringers out, thus only the three bass strings are octaves, good luck :)
I just wrote "sounds like an ORCHESTRA", as you said. So true. BTW, just spoke with Leo Kotke last year as he was setting up chairs for other performers!!. A HUMBLE man.
I played a 12 string at a local guitar store and might get it and I really liked playing it. I found it easier to fret than a normal acoustic because since the strings are round when there is only one my finger can slide off of the side but having 2 strings allows my finger to be kept from moving.
Hi Mr Moustache! The problem with most 12 strings is to do with the compensation on the saddle. On 6 strings, the thicker the string the longer the active length, with a difference between the wound and unwound. Hence the angle of the saddle where the strings pass over it. But with 12's, you have maybe a 16 next to a 32 at the same active length for G. So the moment you fret them one will be slightly out relative to the other. And the higher you go up the neck, the more this effect is noticeable. So typically, if you stick a capo on the 10th fret, for example, you have to totally retune the guitar. What I have done with my Yamaha 12 is to design a nut which is compensated for every single string independently. It took an entire day to cut it. But it works a dream! It looks very wiggly. On top of that, if the strings all move freely in the nut and can't move on the tuning pegs they will stay in tune. So I have a really light custom chosen string set on the Yamaha (top pair are two 8's!), it stays in tune plus I can put a capo on and carry on playing without retuning. There is apparently a Taylor that has a fully compensated saddle like this but I've never seen it.
Hi Graeme, Thanks for all this. I totally agree that the 12 string is a tuning nightmare, unless you view the inconsistencies a part of the jangly sound. Personally I wouldn't dream of capoing on the 10th ! even if it wasn't impossible on my 12 frets. I tune to DD-dd, use 12/12 - 54/30 strings and don't capo above the 4th fret. Thanks for watching!
Hi Raoul, the 12 string is a problematic instrument, always has tuning issues etc., I'd suggest that you start with a small six string. Everything you learn on a six string is easily transferable to a 12 string.
Interesting video... I too play 12 string guitars- a LOT... After discovering 12 string guitars many years ago, I almost never pick up any thing else. I just LOVE the sound and feel that sound produces. Disadvantages.... tuning is much more picky to get the full quality sound from a 12 string than a six because of the interaction between the pitches between the various strings... Advantages? REALLY strong sound with wide audio spectrum when you get them all JUST right, taking intonation errors into account. And yes, it is a LOT more temperature sensitive. As for staying in tune, like any guitar, the better ones tend to stay in tune much better, and always tuning UP (never down) I find helps equalize the tension above and below the nut. The early 12 string guitars were not as strong of a body, so they were intended to be turned down at least one step- I play a Taylor K66ce tuned to concert pitch and never had a problem. In past also played a Martin DM12 and a Takamine 12 string tuned the same and never had troubles. As far as strength needed to fret strings, it takes a little more but I never found that to be much of an issue except for barre chords, perhaps due to wider area of finger pressing on strings. As to the difference between a six string and a 12 string... I would compare that to be like the difference between and organ and a piano- both use the same keyboard so notes and chords are same but the style and technique used to play the instrument to it's full advantage is different. It is all in what sound you are seeking to project in your music and what other instruments are used that determine which instrument you desire or even what effects you may wish to add when using an electric pickup. Much of the time playing with others in band, I end up filling in the sound where they miss it... They play low voicings, I go high as example... I play off beat as accent... Makes for fuller overall sound. I recently bought a Reverend Airwave 12 because it gives me one more tool to use to get just the right sound when various effects are added in. String selection- there as is the case with any string instrument, you have a full pallet of possible sounds to choose from with different gauges and type of string material- silk/ steel or phosphor /bronze or many others. All depends on what sound you desire to project and each need to have guitar setup for that gauge and type for best performance. What works for one guitar may not work best on another- different woods and body style and size create different sounds. As far as bending strings.... NEVER.... even the two unison strings when bending change pitch a little different from each other. For every guitar player out there each has a slightly different style and method of playing, which may explain why there are so many different brands and models out there. Find what makes the sound YOU want and play on.... There.... that's my two cents worth....that a few bucks might buy you a cup of coffee...
I have had a Sigma d12, traded in on a Breedlove 12 string, other than bridge failure (explosive catastrophic) and incompetent replacement there of, it is still a pretty good guitar. I’ve also acquired a 1964 Framus hootenanny slothead, real pretty but they were cheaply made and the sound isn’t what I wish I were. Currently I’m loving my Yamaha fg720 -12. I didn’t realize till now I have an acquisition issue .🤷🏼♂️ I’ve lost a few harmonies by bidding too low on an auction site. Maybe I should spend more time playing than buying? Nah! I love the sound.
My first 12-string had a tailpiece. I would stick painter's tape on to the ball ends of the strings and lower part of the tailpiece just to help me keep them slotted while restringing, and a little bit of cloth underneath to keep it from hitting the soundboard when it slipped. Finnicky business for a beginner.
Yup, like this one ? czcams.com/video/qrj3Zb4r4o4/video.html and this is my string changing method : czcams.com/video/TGEtQmFUqRE/video.html The only guitar I approach restringing with ...apprehension!
@@SillyMoustache I don't blame you at all! I'm surprised that model wasn't called the Harmony Challenger XII. Well, my guitar was an odd one. It was originally an Eko J56/1 with a bridge pins setup, which had been capped later on with a simple late-60's tailpiece added. The guitar was not bellying up at all, and like most of those laminated, poly-coated Ekos, it had virtually no structural damage... apart from the shoulders sinking a little, to the point the bolted-on neck wasn't sitting at the right angle. I took the neck off and inspected it: straight as an arrow. So this had to do with the body, and whoever owned it before me opted for the cheap fix. Needless to say, I learned to string a 12-string with a tailpiece. But I ended up switching it back to pins, because I found the guitar held its tune a little better even with a shoulder problem. I've recently bought a beautiful D12-20 (which research brought me to this channel), and, of course that's a different animal, and it is my first whole-wood guitar.
I own a fabled 12 string guitar - it stays in tune very nicely. It is a beautiful Larrivee D-09 that has rosewood back and sides with a sitka top and hard rock maple binding. It is about 20 years old.
I have been buskin’ and to get the biggest sound possible i used a 12 string, my 1972 ibanez. Never had any tuning issues, stayed in tune perfectly, its all abouth good machineheads and stretching you’re strings like hell. A good tip for not breakin’ the very thin g string is turn them around, put the thicker one on top. If you’re a singer a 12 string is fantastic as a back up!
Thank you for this video. I love 12 strings and learned lots !! I bought a Fender 14SCE a few months ago to replace a cheap Tanglwood that gave up after about 5 years. Needs the action lowered but has that beautiful full sound that 12 strings have. And that was definitely Alice's Restaurant.. Well played Sir !!
I bought a fender 12 new in the sixties. HAD to get the action lowered within weeks by a fantastic really old (primarily Violin) instrument repair guy who took the bridge off, shaved it and put it back. He did Fantastic job, had the guitar 50 years now and its as sweet as a Martin.
My (new) Martin 12 string has all strings at the same height but your reasoning makes sense. I've never seen a 12 string with your tuning peg configuration. That's usually the type for classical (nylon string) guitars.
Got out my Martin 12 string yesterday. After tuning, and allowing it to sit half an hour for it to reach something approaching temperature equilibrium, I played a couple of my own songs on it. I had used the 12 string guitar to make the studio recordings of those 2 songs years ago. It still sounds very good. However, the fretboard is so wide, and so flat that playing it for more than 15 minutes would not be fun for my hands anymore (I am old). I stick to 6 string guitars with a 1 11/16" nut width and a 12" fretboard radius now. Nearly all Martins were /are build with a 16" fretboard radius to the best of my knowledge. But my 12 string Martin seems even flatter than that....ouch! By the way, it was Leadbelly who made the 12 string famous for my generation, and later Dave Van Ronk. Oh, and let me add that Dino Valenti had a very unusual and effective way of playing his 12 string guitars. He did use finger picks, but he used them in a rather unique manner - squeezing the string courses toward each other. I always thought the way he played sounded a bit like a harp.
Hi bob, you say you are old - I'm 72. Which Martin 12 did you get? As you see I use a D12-20 12 fret with the 1 & 7/8" nut width, which is about as narrow as a 12 string should go. I'm sorry if you aer not getting on with your new (?) Martin. I once bought a J12-40 which was a total failure for me because of its long skinny neck - all I could do was strum chords on it! most unsatisfactory. I have Dino Valenti's album with Me & My Uncle on it. It did somewhat influence me.
I saw Leo Kottke in thw Myrv Griffin show in like 1964. That was out if San Francisco and fell in love with that power sound. Ive owned good and bad 12s since. I tuned the G harmonic string down a 5th and realky liked that sound. I cuurently own a Takamine 12 with the Prelawsuit Martin headstock. I love that thing. I always fingerpick with banjo style metal picks. Great video. I like it!!
Excellent!, but actually guitars don't REALLY go out of tune unless there are structural issues - the STRINGS go out of tune as they are affected by temperature, humidity or usage.
I picked up an inexpensive 12-string a few years ago and love playing it. Re-stringing is difficult because on the size of guitar I bought the pinholes are really close together. Funny thing is, when i mention a 12-string to many other players they say they don't like 12-stings. An old friend who taught me a Travis pick years ago however admitted he'd always wanted one.
I have a Taylor 12string...i NEVER have a problem tuning....a little bit on the bass side using a capo...elixer string cause you dont have to change them often.
I prefer to buy less expensive strings and change them more often...I can check the frets and clean and oil the board. In my case I don't buy 12 string sets...I buy 2 string sets and a couple of singles and make them up myself. Also even if Elixier are longer lasting...old strings are still difficult to tune and I absolutely love new strings on my guitar.
I just installed a Zero Glide nut on my Taylor Rosewood 454ce today, and it's sweet. Such a nice guitar made even better by the fretted nut. Super low action and no buzzing since the Taylor neck is so well made. Bone saddle.
I tune my ovation 12 string a whole step down for a couple different reasons Number one I like the tone of a whole step down number 2 it releaves a lot of tension off of the saddle and bridge.. I also have a Godin A12 Which is magnificent great action intonation is spot on I can do standard tuning and it is still very easy to play... Just my basic 2 cents..
Hi, I rarely go out with just a 12 string, and if I'm doing a set, I'll use the 12 every 2-4 songs and tunined one tone/step down gives me a different sound dynamic for my audience. Thanks for watching.
For ease of play... go Taylor. For best tone and power without topping out... Guild. I have a 1979 Guild F12XL NT. It's a handful, but the cannon like power combined with amazing chime is just incredible. Fills a room.
Each to his own. I have found my ideal 12 strings thanks - although if Collings made a version of the Martin 12 fret 12 string dread - I'd be tempted. Thanks for watching.
@@SillyMoustache As to a Martin... I have a 2008 Martin D-28 Marquis. Incredible guitar, much better than I deserve. Bought it used several years back. Martin makes wonderful acoustic guitars. I've never played a Collings but I've only heard great things. I'd like to compare the Collings D2HA to my D-28 Marquis.
@@SillyMoustache Thank you. I'm afraid I'm probably a better woodworker than a guitar player, so I will be showing a Work in Progress, warts 'n' all, on the woodworking forum, www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/index.php
Hi Andy Enjoyed this on 12-string guitar. I had a Guild years ago but just couldn’t get to play it. It was more out of tune than 50% of the time. Thanks for sharing.
I’m a seventy- year old 12 String player. I have spent forty years of my life tuning.
Yeah,but its worth it ..isn't it?
cx
Damn, you’re good!
Have you played a song yet?
Ill see myself out.
@@therugburnz Yes, I have, see my older videos, but yes, after videoing most of my repertoire I do seem to do more chatty videos.
I’ve just picked up my first 12 string much trickier than what I thought chords are great in individual picking it’s very hard to hit the notes that you wanna hit but overall a beautiful sound and I Will get better. It was the Jimi Hendrix footage of him playing the 12 string see my trainer coming that inspired me to get a 12 string because I’m a blues man thank you mate great vid
Most Welcome Max. keep at it, Regards,
I just bought a 12 string guitar, this was really informative, thank you
Hi, I'm glad you found my video informative, and I hope you get a lot of joy from your new 12 string. Thanks for watching!
Same here. Thanks Silly Mustache 👍🏼👍🏼
I just purchased my first 12 string two weeks ago and I’m obsessed with the sound. I just haven’t been able to put it down. I found your video this morning and I found it helpful and addressed several of my questions. Thank you for posting this. All new 12 string owners should see this.
Hi, It is so good to read comments like yours, and find that I have been of help to my fellow guitar pickers. Thankyou and I hope you continue to enjoy your new 12 string
One day I still intend to acquire a 12-string guitar. Beautiful sounds. Thanks for the information
I love my 12 strings, try them tuned down one tone.
Sped this video up to 1.5x and used captions; you are understood clearly and I spent about 13 minutes watching it.
Unfortunately I may need the remaining 4 minutes tuning my 12 to pitch. 👍🏼
Yeah, I'm old - I ramble.
Thanks for the advice and other comments on strings. I usually play my classical and 6 accoustic but I bought a Fender 12 to play some older pop tunes and fell in love with the octave sound. It has not been too burdensome to tune/JJ
No problem!
Great video.
I play 12 and use the same strings!.
Have three 12s.
My Takamine Jumbo is a monster but the sound is amazing, especially through my Katana amp. Sounds like an ORCHESTRA!.
6 string players often say they're too hard to play and have to tune all the time.
But it's what your ear desires.
To me, 100% worth the effort. So beautiful to hear.
Thanks for watching.
I had a Martin 12-string from the 60’s that, unfortunately, got stolen. It had a bow in the top from all the string tension, but I still liked it. I need another 12-string guitar.
I’ve also got three 12s- I’ve had a chronic and progressive case of guitar acquisition syndrome which started many years ago and branched off into an amateur luthiery hobby, so most of my acquisitions have been from pawnshops/Kijiji/Facebook marketplace etc., and have generally needed some significant TLC to make them playable again- for me that’s about 75% of the fun.
My first 12 was an early 90s Indonesian Yamaha which I found in the early 00s in a pawnshop with unplayably high action from being left sitting in the window of the shop for who knows how long tuned about a half step ABOVE concert pitch. Top was pretty badly bellied, and neck relief was way out of whack, but there was enough adjustment on the truss rod to get the neck straightened, and I was able to file down the saddle to get it playable again at standard pitch with extra light strings, so no neck reset needed (which was good, because at the time I had never done one yet) and I was hooked on 12s.
Next 12 was the only guitar I’ve ever owned which didn’t come to me used- a 20teens Takamine with piezo pickup. This one was actually a long service award from my employer at the time- deal was that employees at 5 year increments could pick a merchandise item up to a specific value depending on length of service from any local business which was a customer of our company, and this one at the local Long and Mcquade fit the bill. The piezo pickup meant I could take this one out for amplified jam nights. After a while, though, I found I wasn’t happy with spacing of strings- the neck was a bit wider than my old Yamaha, which I actually liked, but the paired strings were actually further apart, especially at the bridge end, which I found clumsy when trying to do anything other than strum cowboy chords. I eventually came up with a way to adjust the string spacing which didn’t require filling and re-drilling the bridge pin holes or replacing the bridge entirely, so I’m much happier with it now, but in the meantime I found what has been my favourite guitar for the past 5 years or so- an early 1990s Charvel/Jackson with piezo which I found on Kijiji while visiting relatives on Vancouver Island.
The Charvel needed some contact cleaner for the sliders on the preamp, but plays like butter, stays in tune beautifully for a 12 (I can whack away at it for several hours of jamming with an ensemble, and it’s only very slightly out of tune by the end of the evening), puts up with seasonal temperature and humidity swings on the Canadian prairies, and has amazing tone both acoustic and amplified. There’s a weird sort of accordion meets pipe organ overtone (perfectly in tune, it’s not like a chorus pedal dissonance) which sometimes comes out when playing some chords, especially when amplified.
It’s got a bit of a goofy looking body shape- neither a dreadnaught, nor a jumbo, nor a parlour shape, it’s more of a Breedlove looking thing, with a narrow waist and a bulbous top bout and a cutaway. Mine is beautifully appointed, though, with a nice sunburst finish and lots of sparkly abalone inlay.
Bottom line, if you’re looking for a 12 string and you happen to find one of these, 10/10 would recommend.
The 12-string is a truly remarkable instrument. As you described in the video, it is orchestral. I've been playing one for many years, and it is my preferred style of guitar. Like you, I find it no harder to play a 12-string than to play a 6-string. Tuning is problematic but so much as to call it a show-stopper. I have an older Alverez (dated from the mid-80s) and a newer Takamine, and I use them in settings where mine is just one of many other guitars. With the vastly broader sound, it stands out and fills in subtle nuances to what we are playing.
Thank you for your time and explanation. I encourage anyone who is thinking about buying a 12-string to do so. It will provide you with a rewarding experience.
Hi Joe , thank you for a well put comment about 12 string guitars. Whilst they are not for everyone, I wouldn't want to be without one, although i use them far less than my 6 strings. Thanks for watching.
Cool Video!!!! I got a 12 string about 30 years ago and just taught myself. It is a great sound and people respond to it. I used to play in front of our house and all the neigbor kids would come out and start running around. The sound seems to generate a positive vibe. I really like your video. 12 string is awesome. I need to bust mine out. Thanks for the inspiration.
Sounds great!
I owned and played a 1960s Yamaha 12-string guitar (they were solid wood, non- laminated and made in Japan).
Tuning was not as much an issue when I tuned it "looser" or a full step lower. That with a capo allowed me to take some of the stress off the neck and still play along with others without any difficulty.
The Yamaha had a beautiful sound. I could play it softly without losing any of the unique sound of a 12-string. If I really got after it, it would overpower any other instrument in a band without electric guitars in it.
In short, I loved it. Sadly, it was destroyed in a plane crash (which very nearly destroyed ME!), too). I opted not to replace it because I was buying old Martin and old Gibson six string guitars and a 12 would fit neither my apartment nor my discretionary budget.
Great video. Thanks.
Hi Dan, I think y first 12s were Yamahas as well.the ones with the slotted headstocks coincidentally. That would have been in the late 'seventies, early eighties.
@@SillyMoustache I remember that I bought the guitar from a guy who needed tuition money for school. I had it for about 10 years, give or take. I never was certain as to when it was made. My guess was based on what a dealer told me. I ASSUMED that since that was 1971, the guitar had to be at least 3 years old, but that was a guess. I remember that it had the most beautiful sound that I had ever heard coming from any kind of guitar. I also remember that it wan not beat up or scratched up so I knew it couldn't have been too old but I was never a to pin it down.
@@dancolley4208 wow, you were in a plane crash?! That's my worst fear, well one of them. I never used to be scared, I went to Turkey in 2005 and we hit major turbulence, bouncing all over and it didn't bother me at all. Now I'm terrified, I think it's because of planes going missing and being shot down etc. Was it a commercial plane, like a proper airliner or a small plane? Smaller planes are way more likely to crash than big jet planes. Thank god you're still here, but it's sad you lost your guitar. Did anyone die in the crash?
I could watch , listen, and learn so much from this gentleman,.... just excellent!
Wow, thanks! I'm so glad that you've found my videos useful.
The 1st person I ever saw play a 12-string was Bob Gibson in the early 60's. Gibson was a 5-string banjo player & played his 12 string like a banjo. He had a very unique, rolling sound that made you want to play a 12-string. He played a Vega & a modified Martin 6-string Guitar (2 holes for the extra added strings were drilled through the Martin Logo at the headstock).
Thanks for the advice - I'd not heard or seen this.
Bob Gibson was a great pitcher for the Cardinals
I love the Led Belly sounding riffs. His 12 string sounds are iconic in my opinion.
I agree, thanks for watching.
@@SillyMoustache i just wonder, should i buy a twelve string.
@@oldmaterizz4516 Totally up to you, your style, music, etc. I'd never do a gig with just my 12, and when I do gig, I'd only use it for about 10-15% of the repertoire. Swines to keep in tune, but great sound.
Just picked up an old El Degas 12-string last night and this video was a great primer! Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
you are most welcome!
Yes in concert Leo Kottke always says " a 12 string player spends half the time tuning and the other half playing out of tune" as he continually tunes
I love 12 strings and often take the high strings off the Low E and A and get nice bass lines so it is a 10 string
I agree with Mr Kottke.
I sometimes take off one of the B and one of the E strings so i can
bend strings better and still get a full sound from the lower keys.
Leo K uses a lot of alternate tunings. I’ve seen him twice in small venues and play 12 myself but what I saw him do on his 12 was humanly impossible. He’s a god on the 12 string. Taylor has made a LK model that’s built for C# tuning. Would love to own one.
Hi thanks . very enjoyable and informative . I fell in love with 12 strings years ago and only really play them now. But I am predominately a strummer. You develop a different style strumming 12 strings , no need to always strum all 12 at once and damping with your palm intermittently . It works well for me. Play Yamaha, Eko, Eros and others for different sounds. Many thanks.
Hi Denise, I'm glad you found my video of interest. As you see I try to avoid the simple strum.
Great video - I learned a lot and I really like your playing parts!
Hi Robert, I'm glad you found it useful.
Been playing my big 12 string Gibson since the sixties. It went everywhere with me. Lost count of the times I had to clean beach sand out of the tuners and yet today, she sounds and plays as smooth as she always has. Been repaired a couple of times but age, wear and tear as well as the tension of those strings does take its toll. I didn’t seem to worry much about how much it might be worth today....I didn’t buy it back then as an investment...I bought it to play. It’s funny but, I never really thought about the tuning issues. Most times, I would take her out of the case, tune her up and play for hours with just a tweak here and there. As you said, 12 strings can sound great even slightly out of tune. Thanks for the great video.
Hi Richard, tanks for your story. I hope you Gibson gives you many more years of joy! Thanks for watching!
I enjoyed that & agreed with al of it. I bought my EKO 12 string in 1971 and it still plays fine. I added new tuners which hold the tuning better, but the nemesis of playing out of tune a lot is still there.
A completely different beast to any 'normal' guitar... Regarding your dislike of strumming, I found that strumming with the flesh of my fingers and thumb gives a very pleasing background sound...try it and let me know if it appeals. I'm the only person I know who does it, so no problem if you are not keen.... Keep playing, young man, it is a lovely pastime... Love from England.
Hi John, I used to know your namesake who was a great luthier and guitar repairer back when they were an endangered species. Any relation? after sixty or so years, I've kinda developed my own styles, of flat picking and fingerstyle, but I only use picks on my guitars. Thanks for watching.
Oh that Harmony is just fantastic! Obviously the Martin is a beauty too but the Harmony sounds like it’d jab you in the tummy and say “oi! listen to me, I’m awesome.” In a good way 😊
Great video Andrew
Hi Lewis, The Martin is p[robably more "sophisticated" but the Harmony is a little rougher, and has more of a period sound, even though I've recently discovered that it is not as old as the Martin (but both from the '60s). We must get together again soon!
My guess is that the Martin would be the one to use for solo work or recordiing but for playing in a band, the Harmony is the obvious choice.
@@BlackWhirlies Hi, sorry to be so late replying. I've not ben that dsicplned but I probably do take the Martin out more then the Harmony - but as all our gigs for this year have been cancelled ....nothing goes out at present! Same for everyone I guess.
@@SillyMoustache That's cool! There is no particular protocol for replies. I'm sure missing playing live too.
I love the sound of that Martin! Glorious!!
Thanks, so do I!
One more thing to add, I think, is that the strings tuned an octave above the lower E, A, D & G are physically located on the BOTTOM of the pair, so yes, if you pick up, you hit the higher note and then the lower note. That's one thing that gives the 12-string a unique sound. So instead of your thumb playing those lower bass notes while your other fingers are playing higher notes, your thumb is also playing two strings the first of which gives a higher, ringing, sound. Find the chords to the Eagles Hotel California (capo on the 7th fret) and play around with the picking and see what I mean.
er, right!? Not sure I get that, as I only flat-pick my 12s and as stated I tune normally but down one tone. Thanks for watching.
Thanks for the information. I own a Takamine GD30CE 12 string and it never goes out of tune. I actually find it easier to play than my Martin DRS2 six string, probably because I’m using much lighter strings
Good to hear. Regards
I own a Takamine 12 string. My favourite instrument. I play bass, but do all my practising on the 12 string. I've thrashed it and the action's still good. Generally holds it's tuning. You get used to it. Strengthens your hands too.
In chasing down information on a 1928 William H. Bendler guitar (hand made in Baltimore, MD) I talked to Holzapfel's son who was running a luthier shop a few doors down from the Greyhound bus station in Baltimore, MD. At the time he was about 70 years old (mid-1980s) he elder Holzapfel had worked in Bendler's shop during the beginning of the 20th Century.
I'#d be interested to know more when you find out.
@@SillyMoustache Unfortunately, that was the end of the story with Holzapfel. The original Bendler shop is gone, replaced by the entrance ramp of the Jones Falls Expressway in downtown Baltimore, MD. The guitar was a parlor sized six string that I had put back together (top and back were partially separated from the sides, bridge was loose, frets were sprouting). The luthier was Chris Warner in Hanover, Pennsylvania. Functionally, it worked after that but the frets were paper thin and the tuners (brass) were worn so badly that you could only get it in turn with ultra light strings.
This experience let me down the path of transferring my woodworking hobby into becoming an amateur luthier. Among my toys that I've restored are a 1890s minstrel banjo, a mandolin-banjo of the same vintage, a 1968 Hofner Bass, a 1973 Fender Jazz Bass and several other six string archtop guitars from the 1950s. The real gems in my collection is the Martin-Coupa circa 1847-1850 still with its coffin case, (I know of only two others that still exist, one in the Smithsonian Institution and one in Canada.) and my 1918 Gibson Style O archtop.
Hi Andy its just old Don here from Hamilton NZ, I find your videos excellent, thanks for taking the time to do it all, good explanations to, kind regards 😊😊😊
Hi Old Don, receiving comments like yours, is what keeps me doing them. I'm aware that CZcams is making channels like mine as they convert from a video sharing site to an advertising site with increasingly restrictive actions and interruptions to videos.
Great video Silly Moustache! I've used a 12 string for years but never heard "half the time tuning and the other half playing out of tune!" haha.... I guess I'm pretty that my Takamine holds pretty well.... but I'll definitely use that line on stage. Thank you my friend.
You're welcome.
Two strings per bridge pin is still with us. Recently Taylor introduced their new V-bracing on many of their ranges. Because of the geometry of the bracing which converges towards the bridge, there wasn’t enough room for a deeper twelve pin bridge so each pair shares a specially designed pin. I’m not convinced by the V-bracing hype, but I’m a Martin fan anyway so I hardly would be. I played my first 12 string when I was 15 and always liked them, but haven’t owned one for years. Yes they’re a bugger to keep in tune. Great video as ever.
Hi pgod, I'm rather ignorant about Taylors , hadn't heard about that. Thanks for watching.
The effort it takes to press the strings against the frets greatly depends on the string gauge and scale length. Elixirs feel heavenly and are played with much ease but heavier Ernie Balls can be quite stiff and hard - especially as time goes on.
And, of course the action. I don't use coated strings nor Ernie Balls. The Martni wears D'addario EJ37s, and the Harmony wears Martin M190s. both tuned down one tone (D-d)
Charamambo makes Stainless Steel Wound Requinto Strings which are actually Medium Gauge Unison tuned 12 String Guitar Strings. They have a lower tension because they're designed for D Standard Tuning (same tuning you use which helps with singing the high notes without straining your voice), it's a whole step below E Standard Tuning, they do that so that it's easier to play in Accordionist friendly keys.
Thank you but the 12 string guitar uses octave strings for the 3rd4th,5th and 6th courses. and even if they were in stock importing into the UK from Mexico would probably by very difficult and expensive post Brexit.
@@SillyMoustache That's true but those strings are Stainless Steel so they're less likely to Tarnish and Corrode than Bronze strings. Ukraine needs our help but I did find some Rouxinol R30 Nickel Alloy Strings for the 6 String Guitars that include a Special Pick and have a Wound 2nd String if you want a different sound, and they're inexpensive. They do have Color Coded Ball Ends (like the D'Addario Strings) so that's the good thing.
@@SillyMoustache With D Standard Tuning you could play Yesterday by the Beatles in the Original Key.
@@RockStarOscarStern634 Thank you for your kind thoughts. at this time, I'm very happy with the strings and set up of both of my 12 strings. I use EJ37s o the Martin and M190s on the Harmony and that is what the nuts are cut for. I use Wegen TF140s on both as I'm most particular about my strings and picks - preferences developed over -probably about forty years. Thanks again.
@@SillyMoustache Your Milage May Vary and your preferences might change again if you wish.
Your video was my main research material before buying my first 12 stringer. Now I own beautiful slovakia made dowina and love it. It's a lot of fun. Thank you.
Glad to be of service! I hope you enjoy your new 12 string!
@@SillyMoustache Of course. The sound is sweet and inimitable. Especially after luthier's set up.
Very good! I never thought about changing to a 12 String, for a song or two, them back to my six string for 6-8 songs. This would change the sound and keep the gig fresh! Good idea! Thanks for your time! Marty Cann
Happy to help!
My next guitar is going to be a 12-string. Love the sound and I find it's well suited to my particular style of play (i.e. rhythm and chords). Thanks for posting.
why not, but make sure the the nut And fretboard are wide enough that you caqn do what yo want to on it.
Having recently aquired a 12 string this was immensely helpful!
Then, my work is done! Congrats, and enjoy!
Best string guitar guy for me is Roger Mcquinn, he nailed it using it in the byrds
ahh, 8 Miles High...
.
Arlo Guthrie.
Mcguinn
Slash c'mon. L O L
Awesome video on 12 string guitars!!
Thanks so much we were gifted a 12 string like 2 years ago. We like it a lot.
Good to hear!
Thanks for posting. You hit all of my questions. Particularly the D tuning. I’m considering Zager and would appreciate any input. Thanks.
Hi, We don't have Zager guitars in the UK, and from what I've seen and heard from my American pals, I'd look for another brand.
I bought a 12string Eko Ranger guitar from Minns Music in 1968, it was good to play but it was leaning against a Triumph Herald and the guy started the triumph and as he drove away, not noticing the guitar he drove over the instrument and snapped the nut off! I glued it back on as it was a clean break with Evostik Resin W and I have still got it but rarely play it as compared to my Yamaha Jumbo from 1980, it resembles a cheese grater for my finger ends! Lovely sound and as you say, powerful but they must be slightly out of tune for that 'jangle' of notes. Thank you for your short video.
Thanks for watching Jon.
I have several 12-strings. The best one is a Hofmann, which is no longer made. It is built on the Gibson scale, which is a bit shorter than Martin, and has 14 frets to the body and is NOT a slot head(I dislike slot heads). I play with a thumb-pick and fingers or just fingers, and it responds to a light touch and does not break up when played hard. It is accurate up the neck and is easier to play than a 6. It sustains forever. It is easy to tune and it stays in tune.
I discovered that it really resonates to E, so I have it tuned in “open D”, up a whole step. I use Daddario extra lights. It is the best guitar I own.
Bottom line- whether a guitar is a 6 or a 12, playability and sound depend on the build, and not on the name on the headstock. Finding THE ONE may not be easy, but you will know it when it happens.
Hi, thanks for your input.
You sir made me wanna buy a 12 string. Thats it! Im totally done. Im buying one. Its gonna be a blast.
Make sure that it has a wide enough fretboard to enable yu to play it in you style. Many aer made far too thin.
I haven’t got a guitar but found your video very interesting. Thanks 😷
Hi Keith, thanks for watching!
You are amazing! Thank you for the video. I’ve scanned below and you’ve answered everyone’s posts..! Very honorable, indeed! You sir, are a true gentleman.
I try my best to answer all comments and queries, sadly it took some time to get into the habit.
Thanks for answering these questions! I'm thinking about getting a 12 string and this information has really helped :)
Happy to help!
I began my guitar playing on a twelve string in 1973. I STILL do not understand why 6 string players are so Intimidated by 12 strings. I can, with a pick, play the strings that I want just like a 6 string ! Same with finger picking. Great video, Sir !
Hi ppg, I don't know anyone that is intimidated by 12s, but I know a fair few who just aren't interested in them. I admire your ability to fingerpick them - doesn't work for me ... although can't remember the last time I tried. I'm old and set in my ways! Thanks for watching!
The 12-string’s character is beautifully caught in the saying: “When you choose the 12-string, you spend half your time tuning and the other half playing out of tune.” (I noticed that near the end of your video you referred to this.) I’ve played the 12 for sixty years, and my first one was a Harmony very much like yours.
Yes, the cliche is unavoidable, sadly, but the fact is that the slight disharmony is a fundamental aspect of the sound of a 12 string. Starngely my '60s Harmony is easier to tune than my Martin, which has a slight intonation issue. Thanks for watching.
Don here again, just quickly, I loved the sound of your 'Harmony' 12 And the little bit of 'walk right in' I play it myself, but on my New Yamaha TransAcoustic, it has the 3 buttons ( setting controls ) and I cheat by having the 'chorus ' setting up which emulates a 12 string, regards Don 😊😊😊
There is a chap that always comes to my club when he'd not on te continent. He had one of those Yamahas
Thanks MR S. answered all I wanted to know. I purchased one recently and had that same problem with tuning.
time to down tune and carry on.
Many thanks Dan from London.
Hi dan, good to hear from you, - 12 strings will always be a challenge but I wouldn't want to be without one .. or two.
I owned a Martin 12 years ago. Fabulous sounding guitar and have been kicking myself in the back side since i sold it in 1970. I never had any problem getting it tuned up and once in tune held it very very well. Im going to get another as soon as i gather enough scratch. Probably another Martin but could be swayed to a Guild if i found the right one.
whatever it is, get it soon, and get picking! Best, Ol'Andy
Hey SM, Same age as you. Been playing a 12 string since the 60s. Currently have two Taylors, a 355 sapele and a 458e-R rosewood. Oddly enough you added 'Walk Right In' back into my repertoire after many years when I saw your video on AGF. I tune down a half step to D#. I like that you mostly play without a capo, but the G7th Newport with comp pad works great if you need one. I fingerpick everything. About tuning, Michael Cooney said once on stage, 'it's like trying to tune a centipede'. Vivid phrase. He would actually open tune on stage. He was/is fearless, and a great guy. I cheat and use a digital tuner and Elixir Strings. Anyway, I always pay attention to your videos, especially about 12 stringers. Thanks, and keep 'em coming.
Thanks for watching Don,
Greetings from Argentina!!! I love my 12 strings, thanks for your video!!!
Hola Marquitos, de nada, y gracias por mirar.
That Martin is a thing of beauty, optically and aurally!
It is. Everyone on a certain forumsaid it was a fake. It isn't - it's a '64 rebuilt by Martin in 199-eight.(my eight key doesn't work).
Silly Moustache ha😂
Nicely done! You answered a bunch of questions that I didn't know I had. Tx!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching.
Hi, I've 4 of them an old Suzuki, a wonderful K Yairi, an Ovation, and a one off Electric that was made from Brazilian Walnut, Jazz master shape and laminated neck, made by J Crocker who made a 12 for J Page and weighs an absolute ton I love them all at 74 years.
Cool ! Thanks for sharing youngster!
I have a Taylor 352ce 12 fret 12 string that I attempt to play. As I only attempt to play guitar at all! 😂 As to one of your comments here, it is interesting to note that Taylor has redesigned their newer 352 12 string with their new V- class bracing and redesigned the bridge to use only 6 pins. Two strings per pin. Their claim is that the two strings per pin improves the intonation. I cannot prove nor disprove this as I have not played, or attempted to play, one of the newer ones. Just thought I would throw the information out. Thanks for your videos. They are always informative and entertaining.
Thanks for the info - I'm not a Taylor player so not up to date with their offerings.
Thank you for a easy understandable english. Greetings from Germany. Very informative Video.
Hallo, und danke, dass du dir meine bescheidenen Videos angesehen hast! Ich freue mich, dass meine Aussprache leicht verständlich ist. Zu viele Briten sprechen beiläufig, vorausgesetzt, alle verstehen es.
I just bought a Yamaha 12! Love it so far!! Big warm sound!!
Nice!! Enjoy!
Many thanks. I have A 40yr + Eko in great nick and the tones are otherworldly beautiful!
Very nice!
A little late to this conversation, but to add something I've been doing for years now with my unison strings. I'll tune the top unison string to pitch, then tune the bottom one just a little sharp. This gives a "chorus" effect to the sound, or more shimmer.
Interesting - I just try to keep them sounding in tune.
I've changed my 12 string Guitar Tuning to E Standard by switching to very very light gauge strings which have a much gentler sound.
Hi again Oscar, it seems that we approach many aspects of playing quite differently. It is just a matter of personal style.
Ive been obsessed with 12 string guitars since forever, thank you
You're welcome.
I have had my two Rickys (366 and 450/12) for 50yrs and love them. Never had any trouble keeping them in tune.
Great! As you see I don't do electrics. Play in good health!
I love the sound of a 12 string but I love my 6 string first and for most.
That's great! I love my sixes too.
Nice review, thank you!
Thanks for watching.
Loved seeing(and hearing) your Harmony H1270. I had one for over 50 yrs! Finally had to sell it on as at my age (72) I was unable handle the 2 inch nut any longer. I do have another 12er with a 1 7/8 nut. I can get around that fairly well but I miss the sound of the Harmony. Cheers!
Cheers Rad!
Those are some crazy beautiful guitars you've got there.
Hey, thanks!
Just got a 12 string, thanks for tips. Have immediately tuned back down D to stop tension.
Hi, I tune down because I don't like very thin strings (I use D'addario Ej37s) and Dd to dd gives me a different "voice" to my 6 string.
@@SillyMoustache Ok so I can tune it the same as my 6 string without over straining the neck. When you say; thin strings, is that due to tightening them?
THEY'RE BEAUTIFUL AS IT SOUNDS.
Thank you Nicholas.
Great video, thanks. I have a 12 string and plan to start playing it more.
Hi Ben, good for you! 12cstrings need more love!!
Hi ! I hope you're well. Nice video, and very nice guitars. The Martin is in beautiful shape for one that age. I'm a huge 12 string fan, and I've always had at least one in my arsenal since I was in my 20's . (I'm 65 now) There's something about them that I find inspiring to play on and to write songs with . Orchestral is the right word. Just wanted to say hi and thanks for the nice video!
And Hi to you too! The '64 Martin was returned to the factory and "rebuilt" so, frankly, I don't know how much is original, or whether thry junked the original and built another with the same serial no. It hasn't been used much in the last year for obvious reasons, but I checked it out last weekend and it's still fine, and pretty much intune! Maybe, one day!
@@SillyMoustache Hopefully you can get out and play! I know it got worse again in England in recent months. But hopefully the vaccines can help with that, and you can start playing again. By the way, I'm so used to tuning my Guild twelve string, it never really takes very long. I don't know what others do, but I start wi the low strings using a strobe tuner, then I tune it's octave or double string by ear. It's pretty fast. Obviously the high strings don't have octaves but I basically do the same thing. Tune one using the tuner, then its double by ear.
Really useful and enjoyed your Q&A Just invested in a Faith 12 string its on the way. your video will really help.
Glad it was helpful, Harvey, Enjoy.
Great video. Never played an acoustic 12 string, but in 1980´ies I had an electric double neck Ibanez that was a heavy beast. It did sound beautiful, though and gave a full harmony to some songs in our band. Too bad, I sold it when I stopped playing in a band. Now, age 67, I play again and miss it (my back does not)😁
Great. Many thanks. Was there a question?
Silly Moustache no question. Just a comment and a sincere wish : take care of your health 😷
Alex Lifeson's famous Gibson doubleneck had "Heavy" engraved on the 12-string headstock's plate and "Bastard" on the 6-string headstock's plate. I'm sure you can relate to that!
I'm 62 and started playing the 12 string guitar when I was 16. I have discovered that the trick to tuning is in the tuners. You need a good German precisioned tuning peg. I like the Schauler tuners. They don't slip.Next, you need to know how to wrap the string around the tuning pig and through the hole so that the string locks underneath the winds of the string. Once I learned to tie my strings on right I never had a problem with tuning afterwards. The first few hours after your guitar is tuned are the hours that you want to perform with the guitar because the strings will stretch, over time. I played 6 hours straight after putting on my new strings. the guitar did not go out of tune once it was a beautiful night!
Hi Nancy, I hadn't heard of Schauler tuners - you don't mean Schaller do you? String winding is indeed important and I have other videos about that : czcams.com/video/TGEtQmFUqRE/video.html I don't use my 12 strings anything like as much as my 6 strings, and even less in this time of plague, but I find that strings last very well on both. see : czcams.com/video/JvoEo8GoWOk/video.html and czcams.com/video/qrj3Zb4r4o4/video.html Thanks for watching.
@@SillyMoustache Well hello. Yes you spelled it correctly. I wasn't sure of the spelling, that's why I added the discription about it's German precision. I've put those tuners on every guitar I've owned. They just don't slip.
Hi, great video .. I purchased an Indonesian Samick 12 stringer 20 yrs ago it plays tremendously well and has a great warm tone, it has a smaller body and narrower neck than most 12 stringers I call it the "Pocket Battleship," it is the flagship of my guitar fleet and is my main "songs" guitar, fingerpicking is ok if you really want to work at it .. I removed the octave G string and replaced it with a normal G string which takes the "jangle" that afflicts 12 stringers out, thus only the three bass strings are octaves, good luck :)
Great to hear Martin. Thanks for watching.
I just wrote "sounds like an ORCHESTRA", as you said.
So true.
BTW, just spoke with Leo Kotke last year as he was setting up chairs for other performers!!.
A HUMBLE man.
Thanks for watching.
Thank you for all the great information Cheers!!
My pleasure!
I played a 12 string at a local guitar store and might get it and I really liked playing it. I found it easier to fret than a normal acoustic because since the strings are round when there is only one my finger can slide off of the side but having 2 strings allows my finger to be kept from moving.
Yup, agreed. Thanks for watching.
Hi Mr Moustache! The problem with most 12 strings is to do with the compensation on the saddle. On 6 strings, the thicker the string the longer the active length, with a difference between the wound and unwound. Hence the angle of the saddle where the strings pass over it.
But with 12's, you have maybe a 16 next to a 32 at the same active length for G. So the moment you fret them one will be slightly out relative to the other. And the higher you go up the neck, the more this effect is noticeable. So typically, if you stick a capo on the 10th fret, for example, you have to totally retune the guitar.
What I have done with my Yamaha 12 is to design a nut which is compensated for every single string independently. It took an entire day to cut it. But it works a dream! It looks very wiggly. On top of that, if the strings all move freely in the nut and can't move on the tuning pegs they will stay in tune.
So I have a really light custom chosen string set on the Yamaha (top pair are two 8's!), it stays in tune plus I can put a capo on and carry on playing without retuning. There is apparently a Taylor that has a fully compensated saddle like this but I've never seen it.
Hi Graeme, Thanks for all this. I totally agree that the 12 string is a tuning nightmare, unless you view the inconsistencies a part of the jangly sound. Personally I wouldn't dream of capoing on the 10th ! even if it wasn't impossible on my 12 frets. I tune to DD-dd, use 12/12 - 54/30 strings and don't capo above the 4th fret. Thanks for watching!
I've been thinking of taking up the guitar & after watching this, I think I'll take up the 12 string 🎶🎸🎶🎸🎶
Hi Raoul, the 12 string is a problematic instrument, always has tuning issues etc., I'd suggest that you start with a small six string. Everything you learn on a six string is easily transferable to a 12 string.
@@SillyMoustache good idea, 6 string is the best starter & true, most musicians do have issues with tuning 12 string guitars
Awesome video on my 12v strings tune to Eb and all strings in unison gives a double guitar feel rock on peace
Thanks for watching
Great video and very thorough. You're very talented. Thank you
I appreciate that!
Interesting video... I too play 12 string guitars- a LOT... After discovering 12 string guitars many years ago, I almost never pick up any thing else. I just LOVE the sound and feel that sound produces.
Disadvantages.... tuning is much more picky to get the full quality sound from a 12 string than a six because of the interaction between the pitches between the various strings... Advantages? REALLY strong sound with wide audio spectrum when you get them all JUST right, taking intonation errors into account. And yes, it is a LOT more temperature sensitive. As for staying in tune, like any guitar, the better ones tend to stay in tune much better, and always tuning UP (never down) I find helps equalize the tension above and below the nut. The early 12 string guitars were not as strong of a body, so they were intended to be turned down at least one step- I play a Taylor K66ce tuned to concert pitch and never had a problem. In past also played a Martin DM12 and a Takamine 12 string tuned the same and never had troubles. As far as strength needed to fret strings, it takes a little more but I never found that to be much of an issue except for barre chords, perhaps due to wider area of finger pressing on strings.
As to the difference between a six string and a 12 string... I would compare that to be like the difference between and organ and a piano- both use the same keyboard so notes and chords are same but the style and technique used to play the instrument to it's full advantage is different. It is all in what sound you are seeking to project in your music and what other instruments are used that determine which instrument you desire or even what effects you may wish to add when using an electric pickup. Much of the time playing with others in band, I end up filling in the sound where they miss it... They play low voicings, I go high as example... I play off beat as accent... Makes for fuller overall sound. I recently bought a Reverend Airwave 12 because it gives me one more tool to use to get just the right sound when various effects are added in.
String selection- there as is the case with any string instrument, you have a full pallet of possible sounds to choose from with different gauges and type of string material- silk/ steel or phosphor /bronze or many others. All depends on what sound you desire to project and each need to have guitar setup for that gauge and type for best performance. What works for one guitar may not work best on another- different woods and body style and size create different sounds.
As far as bending strings.... NEVER.... even the two unison strings when bending change pitch a little different from each other.
For every guitar player out there each has a slightly different style and method of playing, which may explain why there are so many different brands and models out there. Find what makes the sound YOU want and play on....
There.... that's my two cents worth....that a few bucks might buy you a cup of coffee...
Hi, Thanks for your input. Why don 't you do a video about 12 strings !!??
I have had a Sigma d12, traded in on a Breedlove 12 string, other than bridge failure (explosive catastrophic) and incompetent replacement there of, it is still a pretty good guitar. I’ve also acquired a 1964 Framus hootenanny slothead, real pretty but they were cheaply made and the sound isn’t what I wish I were.
Currently I’m loving my Yamaha fg720 -12.
I didn’t realize till now I have an acquisition issue .🤷🏼♂️
I’ve lost a few harmonies by bidding too low on an auction site.
Maybe I should spend more time playing than buying? Nah!
I love the sound.
Good for you, keep it up!
Haha
My first 12 string, s guy owed money to my dad
It was a "Decca???"
My first 12-string had a tailpiece. I would stick painter's tape on to the ball ends of the strings and lower part of the tailpiece just to help me keep them slotted while restringing, and a little bit of cloth underneath to keep it from hitting the soundboard when it slipped. Finnicky business for a beginner.
Yup, like this one ? czcams.com/video/qrj3Zb4r4o4/video.html and this is my string changing method : czcams.com/video/TGEtQmFUqRE/video.html The only guitar I approach restringing with ...apprehension!
@@SillyMoustache I don't blame you at all! I'm surprised that model wasn't called the Harmony Challenger XII.
Well, my guitar was an odd one. It was originally an Eko J56/1 with a bridge pins setup, which had been capped later on with a simple late-60's tailpiece added. The guitar was not bellying up at all, and like most of those laminated, poly-coated Ekos, it had virtually no structural damage... apart from the shoulders sinking a little, to the point the bolted-on neck wasn't sitting at the right angle. I took the neck off and inspected it: straight as an arrow. So this had to do with the body, and whoever owned it before me opted for the cheap fix. Needless to say, I learned to string a 12-string with a tailpiece. But I ended up switching it back to pins, because I found the guitar held its tune a little better even with a shoulder problem. I've recently bought a beautiful D12-20 (which research brought me to this channel), and, of course that's a different animal, and it is my first whole-wood guitar.
I own a fabled 12 string guitar - it stays in tune very nicely.
It is a beautiful Larrivee D-09 that has rosewood back and sides with a sitka top and hard rock maple binding.
It is about 20 years old.
Hi, thanks for letting me know. all the best for 2021.
my Larrivee 45 12s is also very stable
I have been buskin’ and to get the biggest sound possible i used a 12 string, my 1972 ibanez. Never had any tuning issues, stayed in tune perfectly, its all abouth good machineheads and stretching you’re strings like hell. A good tip for not breakin’ the very thin g string is turn them around, put the thicker one on top. If you’re a singer a 12 string is fantastic as a back up!
Yes, I regard(ed) myself as a singer who plays guitar and the 12 string offered me a great accompaniment. Sadly my voice seems to be going off now.
Thank you for this video. I love 12 strings and learned lots !! I bought a Fender 14SCE a few months ago to replace a cheap Tanglwood that gave up after about 5 years. Needs the action lowered but has that beautiful full sound that 12 strings have. And that was definitely Alice's Restaurant.. Well played Sir !!
Glad I could help!
I bought a fender 12 new in the sixties. HAD to get the action lowered within weeks by a fantastic really old (primarily Violin) instrument repair guy who took the bridge off, shaved it and put it back. He did Fantastic job, had the guitar 50 years now and its as sweet as a Martin.
Sorry just checked, its early 70's
My (new) Martin 12 string has all strings at the same height but your reasoning makes sense. I've never seen a 12 string with your tuning peg configuration. That's usually the type for classical (nylon string) guitars.
Tuning peg configuration ? are you referring to the slotted headstock or the Bridge pins ?
@@SillyMoustache Yes, I've only seen that style of headstock on nylon string guitars until now.
Thank you for the video. It was very informative.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching.
Got out my Martin 12 string yesterday. After tuning, and allowing it to sit half an hour for it to reach something approaching temperature equilibrium, I played a couple of my own songs on it. I had used the 12 string guitar to make the studio recordings of those 2 songs years ago. It still sounds very good. However, the fretboard is so wide, and so flat that playing it for more than 15 minutes would not be fun for my hands anymore (I am old). I stick to 6 string guitars with a 1 11/16" nut width and a 12" fretboard radius now. Nearly all Martins were /are build with a 16" fretboard radius to the best of my knowledge.
But my 12 string Martin seems even flatter than that....ouch! By the way, it was Leadbelly who made the 12 string famous for my generation, and later Dave Van Ronk. Oh, and let me add that Dino Valenti had a very unusual and effective way of playing his 12 string guitars. He did use finger picks, but he used them in a rather unique manner - squeezing the string courses toward each other. I always thought the way he played sounded a bit like a harp.
Hi bob, you say you are old - I'm 72. Which Martin 12 did you get? As you see I use a D12-20 12 fret with the 1 & 7/8" nut width, which is about as narrow as a 12 string should go.
I'm sorry if you aer not getting on with your new (?) Martin. I once bought a J12-40 which was a total failure for me because of its long skinny neck - all I could do was strum chords on it! most unsatisfactory. I have Dino Valenti's album with Me & My Uncle on it. It did somewhat influence me.
sell the martin and buy a rick 360/12, nice thin nut and you can get acoustic tones!
Excellent review! You just convinced me a 12 string is probably not for me. Thanks!
Well, that's fine. Glad to be of service.
I saw Leo Kottke in thw Myrv Griffin show in like 1964. That was out if San Francisco and fell in love with that power sound. Ive owned good and bad 12s since. I tuned the G harmonic string down a 5th and realky liked that sound. I cuurently own a Takamine 12 with the Prelawsuit Martin headstock. I love that thing. I always fingerpick with banjo style metal picks. Great video. I like it!!
Good to hear jkelly, keep on picking.
I own a Martin X series 12 string and in all honesty, it stays in tune for so long. I rarely ever need to tune it 👍🏻
Excellent!, but actually guitars don't REALLY go out of tune unless there are structural issues - the STRINGS go out of tune as they are affected by temperature, humidity or usage.
I just bought a 1270, with its old sticky tuners, and yes, it's a major PITA changing the strings!
This might be helpful: czcams.com/video/TGEtQmFUqRE/video.html
I picked up an inexpensive 12-string a few years ago and love playing it. Re-stringing is difficult because on the size of guitar I bought the pinholes are really close together. Funny thing is, when i mention a 12-string to many other players they say they don't like 12-stings. An old friend who taught me a Travis pick years ago however admitted he'd always wanted one.
I think many people buy cheap 12 strings and are then disappointed in them, or get ones with too thin necks. Thanks for watching.
@@SillyMoustache I am one who is not disappointed. Very happy. Enjoy playing a 12-string.
I have a Taylor 12string...i NEVER have a problem tuning....a little bit on the bass side using a capo...elixer string cause you dont have to change them often.
I prefer to buy less expensive strings and change them more often...I can check the frets and clean and oil the board. In my case I don't buy 12 string sets...I buy 2 string sets and a couple of singles and make them up myself. Also even if Elixier are longer lasting...old strings are still difficult to tune and I absolutely love new strings on my guitar.
I just installed a Zero Glide nut on my Taylor Rosewood 454ce today, and it's sweet. Such a nice guitar made even better by the fretted nut. Super low action and no buzzing since the Taylor neck is so well made. Bone saddle.
They're easy to tune - you just find the one string that's out of tune...and tune the other eleven to that one...
G7th Newport 12 string capo is amazing on keeping my 456ce in tune up and down the neck
Really so you tune in unison instead of in octaves? Interesting.
I tune my ovation 12 string a whole step down for a couple different reasons Number one I like the tone of a whole step down number 2 it releaves a lot of tension off of the saddle and bridge.. I also have a Godin A12 Which is magnificent great action intonation is spot on I can do standard tuning and it is still very easy to play... Just my basic 2 cents..
Hi, I rarely go out with just a 12 string, and if I'm doing a set, I'll use the 12 every 2-4 songs and tunined one tone/step down gives me a different sound dynamic for my audience. Thanks for watching.
For ease of play... go Taylor. For best tone and power without topping out... Guild. I have a 1979 Guild F12XL NT. It's a handful, but the cannon like power combined with amazing chime is just incredible. Fills a room.
Each to his own. I have found my ideal 12 strings thanks - although if Collings made a version of the Martin 12 fret 12 string dread - I'd be tempted. Thanks for watching.
@@SillyMoustache As to a Martin... I have a 2008 Martin D-28 Marquis. Incredible guitar, much better than I deserve. Bought it used several years back. Martin makes wonderful acoustic guitars. I've never played a Collings but I've only heard great things. I'd like to compare the Collings D2HA to my D-28 Marquis.
Thanks, I enjoyed that. I also picked up the word ameliorate, which doesn't get used often enough
Glad to help, with 12 string interest, and vocabulary! (I'm old - old fashioned vocab!)
Wish me luck! I'm about to build a C F Martin 12 String from a Blues Creek kit. It must be nearly 50 years since I played a 12 string! 🙂
Please let me know how it goes - how about a picture or video diary on AGF, UMGF or similar.
@@SillyMoustache Thank you. I'm afraid I'm probably a better woodworker than a guitar player, so I will be showing a Work in Progress, warts 'n' all, on the woodworking forum, www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/index.php
Hi Andy
Enjoyed this on 12-string guitar. I had a Guild years ago but just couldn’t get to play it. It was more out of tune than 50% of the time. Thanks for sharing.
Hi Sannojo ... who told you they were supposed to be in tune????
If you’re a good player, then it sounds good even if you’re out of tune. When you’re marginal , it sound worse than bad.