Wells Distributor - less ignition system, DIS, Training with Sgt. Tech P0300, P0301, P0302, P0303
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- čas přidán 7. 02. 2009
- www.wellsve.com/ Sgt. Tech explains how a DIS system functions and give tips on diagnostics. If you have ever wondered how DIS really functions, this is the video for you. How do misfires occur on this system and why. He will also explain why the Wells coils are the best in the market.
"The information presented in this program is based on a specific diagnostic case and might not directly apply to the vehicle you are repairing. We do not represent or warrant that the information presented is complete or error free. Please take all safety precautions. We disclaim any and all liability for losses, injuries or damages in connection with your repair." - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Great question! You have been taught electricity will always go to ground. It will go to ground The reason it goes to ground is because it needs to get back to the battery. The reason it needs to get back to the battery is because the battery is the source of the current. If you look at the inside of a typical oil filled coil, for example, you will see the primary and secondary windings connect at the plus terminal. Hence making the source of the secondary current the battery on this system.
This is a great question. You have a good understanding of the function of a DIS system. If the body ground is connected to the engine it will work. Better just connect the spark tester to the engine and ignition wire.
Mark Hicks
Wells Vehicle Electronics
In a DIS system the primary winding is connected to battery voltage, but the secondary is isolated from the primary winding and battery voltage. These type of coils would be considered true transformers. Therefore the secondary winding becomes a voltage source. Each end of the winding is connected to one of the ignition wire towers. Because it is the source the current generated will take the shortest path back. In the path will be two ignition wires, two spark plugs and en engine block.
@adhdkid918 OK now that I have that off my chest. When i first learned how DIS worked I had the same questions and many more. You are saying that the coil fires out of both towers at the same time. Firing one cylinder under compression and the other on the exhaust stroke to burn the extra fuel leftover from the previous combustion event. There are engineers a lot smarter than me that spend their lives making sure all the fuel is consumed during combustion.
The two plugs do not fire at the same time. There is normally a leading and trailing plug. The theory is to have a more complete burn due to the configuration of the piston and head.
Sgt. Tech was notified! He says "Gracias, now get back to work recruit!"
Mark Hicks
Wells Vehicle Electronics
@dmorley100 You are absolutely correct. I could not have said it better myself. After all these years it is still a black art in many ways. This is why my articles and videos focus on the the function and testing of systems. If you have a good understanding of how the system functions you are well on your way to making an accurate diagnosis. But as hard as I try; are there times when I make the wrong diagnosis? Yes it still happens from time to time.
Thank you for the great post.
Mark
wow i learned alot!! tanks for posting this video! makes me want to replace my coil pack plugs and wires! asap!
@adhdkid918 if there were extra fuel to burn it is going to happen when an exhaust valve is open. Do you think this might create a backfire? To prove what I am saying in the video do this. Remove the two spark plugs from the cylinders being fired from one coil. Look very carefully at the electrodes. You will find the inside electrode worn on only one spark plug. If you look very carefully at the other plug. You will see the outside electrode is worn in the middle.
You are right there should be power feed to the coil packs and the other wires should be a switching ground. Try connecting your test light to positive and then to the other wires and crank the engine the light should flash. It is does not it means the module or crank sensor is not working.
Mark Hicks
Wells Vehicle Electronics
Applauses, great info Sgt Tech..
My pleasure!
Take Care,
Mark Hicks
Wells Vehicle Electronics
First I want to apologize for the slow response, Had some medial issues and on the mend. This is an excellent question and one techs have asked for a long time. Usually it can be done with a test light. What is the year, make, model and engine size of your vehicle? What type of issue do you have?
Mark Hicks
Wells Vehicle Electronics
@lawnside82 Glad you liked the video. Keep watching we have many more coming.
2) Question, when u say spark travel from one spark plug to other spark plug via engine block, do we have a hole in engine block between these two spark plug or the spark travel thru solid block.. pls
very very helpful
thank you
It is connected to the ICM on this system.
@LarryLane07 Larry you absolutely correct. Thank you for bringing up this important point.
Mark Hicks
Wells Vehicle Electronics
If the catalytic converter is getting plugged up you definitely have a misfire. I see you have an Accel coil. Do you also have multi-spark ignition? If the pick-up assembly has two wires going to it, it can be checked by looking for an AC voltage. During normal cranking speed it must generate at least .5 AC volts. If this is correct, I work suspect a problem with the multi-spark. Please let me know the results or if you have any further questions.
out of 3 wire, one being battery +ive all the time, I could not see test light flickering in the rest of other 2 wire, my test light connected to ground. so just to prove that coil pack is working, I connected my test light to ground and touched the control wire(other 2 wire) to break and see if I get spark in spark plug. I don't see spark at all.. do u see any issue in my testing approach and why I could not see spark. my other diagnosis to check why I am not getting pulse is yet to be chkd,
no, DIS can be on any even numbered cylinder engine. Example GM 2.5.
Mark, Thanks much. I have Ford F150 1997..8 cylinder that has waste spark with 2 set of coil pack. A coil pack have 3 wire. Power all the time in one wire, rest of the 2 wire as per Mitchell it says IGn1 and IGN2. so I assume it is for pulsing ground. I also assume that PCM has built in igniter or ICM, because I assume if ICM is in coil pack, it needs power and ground and all I see is 3 wire.. so is my understanding right that PCM has ICM because I don't see ground wire out of 3 wire. cont..
but before checking pulse from PCM, I stuck in the first test, pls advise.
There can be many reasons for a no-start problem. Before I can begin to help you, I will need to know the year, make, model and engine size of your vehicle.
The current travels through the block, there is no determined path.
Mark Hicks
Wells Vehicle Electronics
@sangreazteca69 cranking the engine over. You will see the spark jumping from one tower to the other and not to ground. I hope this helps you. If you need any further information please let me know. Congratulations on your English, it is very good. I wish my Spanish was half that good.
Mark Hicks
Wells Vehicle Electronics
Can i put this on a stario, car does not start but cranks.I put new distributor wires, park plugs, rotor,dis cap. I have a feeling its the coil if not my icm.I had a original coil with resistor upgraded to an accel can any one help.
yes
Hi Mark, before asking my question let me explain what I understand on DIS coil, unlike conventional DIS, secondary is isolated from the primary winding and battery voltage. the secondary winding becomes a voltage source. Each end of the winding is connected to one of the ignition wire towers. ok I understood the theory, question is if I want to use spark tester, connecting one end to body ground and other end to spark plugh cable, will it work?.. this is how we used for NON DIS system, PLS
salut jais un probleme sur mon moteur clio 1.5 dci de démarage elle ne démmare plus qua aprés je la mais de l éssence dans le collécteur d'admision et sa sa continue a tous moment je cherche une solution a se probleme merci de m'aidez
@sangreazteca69 Hello, I first want insure you everything in this and all our videos is fact. I do not blame your teacher, I am sure he is very good, it can be hard to understand this system. On a DIS coil the primary and secondary windings do not touch each other. Remember, electricity will always return to it's source. If the windings do not touch each other the source for the high secondary current is the secondary winding. You can prove this by removing the spark plug wires from a coil and
1988 mitsubishi starion, 2.6 turbo. i notice the accel coil was leaking oil at times plus hot.The car turned off in the freeway, i manage to take it home running crappy as hell.Also, the catalick converted was pluged i put a new one same problem start cranking but no spark.Put original coil back/stock same problem Ngk wires are new.
How do you tell if the ICM is bad before you spend the money on a new one?
They have it backwards on the winding's.
Hey sarge I have a 94 S-10 4.3L TBI . I'm trying to smog it I go test it when the rpm's get over 2k for the first 20-30 seconds it's fine then the electrical starts choking and resets the smog machine what could that be ?
Hey Sammy, what do you mean "the electrical starts chocking"?
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
NGK Technical Training I tried to smog it and the computer kept resetting the test because the electrical pulse in the sparkplug cables would cut out and only spark about half the time. He tried 4 different cables and had an adapter for the cigarette lighter and samething happened . The engine doesn't drop down that much in rpm's, but it does lose power a little . Also my abs light is on in my truck and at times my abs will come on when I'm driving . Not sure if that has anything to do with it . And my voltage reading on the dash sits at 12 or 14 regardless of rpm's it goes back and forth between the two readings mostly 12 but when it reads 14 it doesn't seem to happen may just be a coincidence.
@markjhicks Don't you just love these people who think they know everything there is to know in this line of work, LOL.
@adhdkid918 Well my friend you have a very interesting way of asking questions, but please next time you ask refrain from swearing, we do not our young to think everyone one converses this way. If you feel you need to talk that way and you have the courage, please go to the Wells website there is a link on my channel. On that site you will see an 800 number all over it. Dial that number and press 3 when prompted and ask for me. I would love to discuss this with you and swear at me.
Mark Hicks
@markjhicks2 What makes it real bad is that ain't just technicians who suffer from a lack of education. Service writers are bad about it too. They don't realize how much time and thought it takes to properly diagnose problems. They expect it to happen almost instantenously and that the scanner'll just magically tells you exactly what's wrong with the car. If that was really the way it worked, wouldn't either one of us have a job right now.
Cars now uses driect piezo injector.
Hey Michael, yes they do. Cars have a changed a ton since the distributor days!
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
I hope this answered your question. If you have any further questions, please let me know. You can either contact me here or give me a call, 1-800-558-9770 press 3 and ask for me.
Keep up the great work and curiosity, one day it will separate you from the pack! BTW when I first learned how the system worked, my first question was the same as yours,
Mark Hicks
Wells Vehicle Electronics
Mark, Thanks much. I have Ford F150 1997..8 cylinder that has waste spark with 2 set of coil pack. A coil pack have 3 wire. Power all the time in one wire, rest of the 2 wire as per Mitchell it says IGn1 and IGN2. so I assume it is for pulsing ground. I also assume that PCM has built in igniter or ICM, because I assume if ICM is in coil pack, it needs power and ground and all I see is 3 wire.. so is my understanding right that PCM has ICM because I don't see ground wire out of 3 wire. cont..