Control is Back in Modern | MTGGoldfish Podcast
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2024
- The crew talks a lackluster B&R update, Assassin's Creed and the state of Modern with a Pro Tour on the horizon next weekend!
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Intro Music: "8 Bit Adventure" By HeatleyBros
• "8 Bit Adventure!" Que...
Outro Music: "8 Bit Ending" By HeatleyBros
• "8 Bit Ending!" Nostal... - Hry
Wow, Seth is such a good host, constantly asking crim and Richard and he is really good at keeping the conversation rolling
Fun fact: in magics lore there is a sort of "one ring' Lim-dul as a simple soldier once found a ring that corrupted him. The ring contained the essence of Mairsil the Pretender and it gave Lim-Dul great power.
This would be an awesome Universes Within "Skin" for the One Ring.
True but also lore wise Liliana took Lim-Duls ring and buried it far beneath her families home to the point where her magic couldn't sense it anymore. This was to prevent Lim-Duls (Raven Man)corruption and from Phyrexia obtaining it
True story about unsleeved cards: In my office we would play magic during our lunch break in a conference room. This one guy who play back in the very start of magic, and had full collections of all sets up to something like the Urza block. We all knew he had the power nine (actually 8 because someone in the 90's stole is Mox Pearl), and we asked if he wanted to build a deck to play with us. So after a bit of prodding, he built a 5 color sliver deck using just cards he had, no new cards. So we sit down and he has this deck completely unsleeved, is bridge shuffling it, and starts playing OG duals, and sliver queen, etc. At one point he probably had $10,000 worth of cards on table completely unsleeved and didn't even give it a second thought. I told him that I would leave right now and go buy him sleeves just so he wouldn't ruin these cards. He declined, but it was wild to see and remember when I started playing during revised that we never sleeved our decks.
Had a similar situation at boarding school in the early 2000s - friend had a huge collection of cards going back into the 90s, including some pretty valuable nonsense. We would just put all the cards into a huge pile and dig out whatever to make random decks every play session, no sleeves, no respect, just pure savagery.
The first time I saw a sleeved card I thought it was weird. You should be rawdogging your opponents with the unprotected savagery of a dog-eared black lotus that has an ever growing tear with every shuffle
I constantly get that offer as well. I tilted someone by playing an unsleeved Cabal Coffers and Urborg. I do refuse to put my drink on the tables.
The issue is I have approximately 200 unique decks, one being a Battle of Wits. That’s 12,190 sleeves. At 100 in a pack, $6 a pack, I’d end up spending ~$750 on just sleeves
This is why no cards after 2000 will ever approach the value of pre-2000 cards. When things are treated as collectible, they don't become collectible.
Of all the cards in the set Seth managed to pick out Cleopatra as being difficult to reprint... the actual historical figure that cannot be trademarked.
That's a really good point! The bottom right of her card shows a Ubisoft copyright symbol though, so I guess they're counting her as an original character.
Disney would absolutely do that shit if they could get away with it.
@@josephwodarczyk977 Just because they print something on the card doesn't mean it's correct/lawful.
@@metatron8578 that's exactly what the copyright symbol means.
Its probably the only one he can pronounce. 🤣
I play with people who play unsleeved, but you were right when you said they don’t listen to podcasts about magic. “You just take cards and play them” -Richard
Wizzards want you to play unsleeved and with drinks so you need to buy new cards all the time, big brain move!
My lore concern is that Lord of the Rings actually feels very traditional magic setting, but Assassin's Creed stretches that a little too much, Marvel even more so. I cannot see myself wanting to play Ezio or Spiderman no matter how good they are. I'd rather have a Universes Within version of the Marvel characters. That said, I know its slightly hypocritical cause I didn't bat an eye for the Transformers cards
My concern is that the cards are almost practically mechanicly tied to the IP too. So what will reprints look like?
Its almost as bad as the reserve list.
First no
LotR is low fantasy Magic is high fantasy much more like Conan, the Dying Earth series.
LotR isn't very magical and it's intentional
Second, one of the best most well received sets in recent years was Kamigawa Neon Dynasty a little cyber punk setting. Motorcycle riding mice biker gangs are mtg Lore.
Yeah, this is such a fraught thing. It's funny how Fallout and Warhammer fit the Magic aesthetic more than Thunder Junction did.
@anxez
WarHammer is nothing like Mtg aesthetics, it's all the spaces ships and stuff. It's like saying Star Wars or Dune fit the Magic aesthetic.
I think playing other games that are just ip soup has really helped me not be bothered by these sets. Japan is full of games like that too.
My opinion on pre-scheduled B&R vs. random "whenever they feel it's necessary" B&R is that pre-scheduled is better, but it should be more regular. Not once per year, but some fixed amount of time after each set release. Long enough to have a good idea of the metagame and allow counterplay to develop, but not so long that problems fester for ages like the once yearly updates would cause.
they do have small B&R windows after sets
On the unsleeved cards, can confirm that is how one starts to play magic.
Just a perfect storm of an extremely awkward time to have a B&R window. Standard is rotating soon, Modern, Legacy and Vintage just received an huge influx of powerful cards and Pioneer is in the middle of RCQ season. Hopefully something happens in August, particularly with Pioneer, Amalia combo has warped that format considerably with no repercussions.
Why is it always pioneer the one that gets reck by a combo deck that goes too long unadressed? xD
@@SilverAlex92 Just speculation but probably because it isn't as readily accessible for monetization like the other formats. WotC has been complacent with it recently because the priority is revitalizing Standard and pushing out as much targeted Commander product as possible.
The other aspect is that Pioneer has essentially become curated by 'Standard's greatest hits' and WotC always favors printing threats over answers lately. This, Pioneer is always deprived of efficient, targeted answers for its meta while it is constantly injected with increasingly proactive cards that encourage combo and value pile play patterns.
@@SilverAlex92theory I’ve heard posited for that that I agree with, is that most of the best anti-combo pieces were printed just outside of Pioneer’s time window, and WotC hasn’t printed good enough replacements for them in Standard/Pioneer-legal sets since.
I sleeve EVERY CARD in both magic and board games. I spend a lot of money on sleeves and even have a collection of sleeves of Dragonshields that are no longer in print. I am a self-proclaimed connoisseur of sleeves. I say all of this because I was emotionally devastated seeing that image of a commander game with sleeveless cards.
Playing against folks at FNM who are rocking beautiful, blinged out decks in grimy, worn-out sleeves drives me insane.
I dont sleeve a few of my decks, i have an unsleeved selvala explorer returned deck and its one of my favourites. Every time i play the deck it reminds me of playing unsleeved commander in my buddies basement once a week with pizza and beer, the deck will always be unsleeved and i welcome any wear that comes to those cards. Sometimes its freeing and fun
Lore aside, I actually like some of the cards in the set, the play from exile bird is gonna be part of my "path to exile as ramp" package
Combo is level 1 of the PT metagame, everyone is going to see it coming. So my prediction is some sort of assertive/aggro plan with disruption elements (discards/counterspells/removal) becomes the level 2 that you want to be playing because it preys on combo. In short, maybe this is finally merfolk's time to shine. Though I personally am quite high on the Izzet wizards lists.
Unsleeved is the way to go! However my main format is pauper edh so I’m not playing with particularly expensive cards. Thanks for the podcast folks!
24:32
Seth learns that Magic players are far more interested in complaining about anything than they are being consistent.
The bird that can come in from exile is gonna be sweet. Pitch that dude to solitude to get rid of their blocker then get in with Ragavan or thalia or something and bring the bird back? Gaming
Well done getting that winner kid Richard!! It was cool meeting you
You guys are always a joy. Thanks for producing informative and entertaining content time and time again.
Yesss. Just refreshed!
I only got a play mat 2 weeks ago, and my play area looked exactly like that. Though entirely sleeved. I started playing magic in 98.
I love the one piece updates for Richard. Conversely I would watch a one piece stream from Richard lol
about the "do people really sleeve their cards?" at around 56:00 onwards: I would imagine that those players who truly play kitchen-sink MTG, with those random piles of cards as decks, they would not care for sleeves.
the players who actually get together regularly in LGS and such always have sleeved decks. I personally have one unsleeved deck (it costs 25 bucks total and was purposely made to not be sleeved) and I even riffle shuffle the deck, which always has people go crazy when they see it.
You rock sir.
Nothing like waking up to a goldfish podcast
You really woke up at 5pm? Lol
Eveyone lives in the same time zone 😮 @@r4v4g3r
I guess the upsite of a lot of data wrt brewing is that you can start to tech against the meta-game much more efficiently which can keep it flowing nicely, and also you can have much more refined "niche" lists, instead of only the top type of decks being optimized, and the 2nd tier decks being left in sub-optimal states, making the matchup that much harder for them.
Thank you Crim. Last year I got the game Exploding Kittens and sleeved all the cards for it. At the time my gf judged me for it. Glad to know other mtg players don't think it's that extra.
I have close the 15 commander decks that I use pretty often. I think two of them are sleeved and I refuse to use a playmat.
The amount it tilts people is a advantage.
This is the way!
I always listen on Spotify but I had to switch apps just to come here and defend Crim. I have experience in the behind the scenes at board game stores and more and more people sleeve their favorite game. The board game sleeves come in a ton of sizes, and it never seems possible to keep the popular sizes in stock. Not usually every game in a collection, but for the dedicated gamer this isn’t crazy.
Just wanted to request more OPTCG talks in these! Really though, with all the magic sets releasing all the time the product fatigue is real. I'd love an off topic podcast where you talk about your other hobbies.
31:00 Beyond Boosters have 1-4 rares or higher, and one card is always a basic land or scene card. So it's possible to pay full price for 1 rare, 3 uncommons, 2 commons, and a land.
I have a group of friends from high school that I go back to play with every once in a while. They all play unsleeved with drinks on the table. It bugs me, but they absolutely refuse to sleeve their cards. To each their own.
I play both sleeved and unsleeved, where the budget deck is unsleeved and the other isn't. Sleeves are pricey, man
Totally fair, and to each their own. That said, after the misery of shuffling and destroying unsleeved cards for years in the 2000s, I don’t know that I could ever go back to playing unsleeved, even if the deck costs less than the sleeves.
Sleeving cards is so therapeutic
The issue with a in magic version of the one ring is it won't affect the price due to you will run both in Commander.
The ABSOLUTE Nightmare Secnario for the Pro Tour this weekend is if _Amulet Titan_ shows up & just ROLLS the field 🤯
Richard, Mardu with Nethergoif & Ajani is the new Jund you're looking for
I think wizards learned from Commander rules committee how to make a format “fair and balanced”: if everything is broken, nothing is. 50:25
The most popular version of that Jeskai deck doesn’t run The One Ring. Instead they have Tamiyo and Flame of Anor. Flame of Anor being a great answer to Nadu decks.
No mention of the one ring really surprised me.
I expected it to atleast come up in passing or something
Don’t worry Crimmm I have a sleeved copy of Exploding Kittens too, I still need to make a box that fits them sleeved tho
37:00 The One Ring won't get power crept, but it could get nerf crept by printing more cards that punish card draw (like Orcish Bowmasters). It's hard to see how they reprint it. The name is trademarked, owned by MIDDLE-EARTH ENTERPRISES, LLC, so they probably can't reprint the name without paying another licensing fee. And reprinting it under a new name causes the problem of 8 One Rings in a deck.
To Crim's defense, I have wanted to sleeve the family Uno deck 😆
Playing unsleeved makes actually the most sense, because cards will just disapear forever. Imagine the one Ring is not played anymore, because all of them played to death.
It's better to view the yearly ban window more as a time for WotC to share their views on formats going into rotation and the after set window is the time to actually ban problems.
The problem is that this is supposedly the only time they'll address something in Standard, so if the meta goes to he11 with rotation and the release of Bloomburrow due to one of the cards that they kinda highlighted today. Then we have to deal with it until they either rotate out or are able to ban it next year.
It retails for the same price as a Thunder Junction Play Box, but has 33% less packs 66% less cards, a small fraction of the reprints. This set is purely consumer extortion. That increases the cost substantially for all consumers to play magic. Definately pushing the corporate gestapo.
Random thought about "The One Ring" but it doesnt have any of the notable text on the ring that makes it look different than any other traditional ring. I think they mayyyyyy be able to squeeze out a loophole to reprint it as just another generic looking ring, but it being "The One" in another form that alligns with the Magic universe instead of the LotR one
People sleeve board games at the shop I play at helps preserve the game longer in general
Watch players in Japan. So clean
Remember when Modern’s price issue was the land base? Those were the days..
I think most players will eventually sleeve their decks. But I could see newer players playing a couple games with a precon they bought before they buy sleeves.
My brother has all his Dominion & Wingspan cards sleeved!
I was sleeving as I watched this my latest EDH deck
I rarely see unsleeved cards at my lgs outside of limited, but the kitchen table crowd probably plays unsleeved.
Basim Ibn Ishaq seems pretty playable
I think they should have a ban window between Christmas and New Year since tournaments and qualifiers are done. This window should address standard and pioneer since those are the RPTQ season formats until my next ban window which I would put around July 1st. This should address modern most with that RPTQ season starting and would be after the modern PT. I may have the seasons a bit mixed but two hard locked ban announcement times should be enough and if a big problem arises then you can emergency ban. That is my idea for B&R scheduling.
I’ve never sleeved a magic card (but I haven’t played a game with paper cards for 20 years.)
...why is the standard ban window literally right before rotation??? Shouldn't it be partway through the year?
speaking of phlage, i would really love to see a 12 helix deck, with phlage, lightning helix and smothering helix in a vid. i think it would be pretty funny.
The people I know who just buy a few precons a year but have never followed competitive Magic definitely play without sleeves. Pretty much like how you see in the picture. But no drinks on the table. Think about how often you might have played a game of Monopoly or something with your family as kids and thats about how much use those cards see.
I dont mind universe beyond sets that "fit" with magic, but even then i would prefer their powerlevel to be on the lower end. Personally i just hope dr who and warhammer 40k style sets will never have relevance in eternal formats.
As somebody who introduces A LOT of people to Magic, I can say from my own experience that people are confused when I mention that they may want to sleeve their decks. They think about Magic cards like any other card game (e.g., poker, sushi go, etc.) - that is to say, something that should be played, not something they are investing in. I see people learning to sleeve their decks if they begin building or modifying their decks, and they begin to see the prices of specific singles. However, if people stick with pre-constructed decks or some form of starter decks, sleeving cards usually isn’t considered or prioritized.
I feel like the no unsleeved stuff and no Playmat is mainly because they don’t want to license the product for the photo. Even the “official” stuff is just licensed product by ultrapro, which they’d need permission to use. You can’t exactly pop up your mtggoldfish playmat and MTGRemy sleeves for a promotional photo for the game. They don’t think it’s how the game should be played, but it’s the stuff they have the exclusive rights to.
Richard out here sounding like a Hasbro executive with all this "put broken cards in the set so it will sell" talk.
The fact that unsleeved cards trigger Crim this hard makes me wanna play unsleeved on all my decks now. I wanna wear those cards down to nubs and play them with Pride. 😈
So rare to find something that sets Crim off.
Sleeves aside, I don't think most people play on an unprotected wooden table with drinks there right next to the considerably expensive pieces of cardboard. At the very least get some coasters and a table cloth.
I own likely 25k MtG cards and buy at least 2 booster boxes of every set. But... I rarely sleeve cards when I play. I do sleeve constructed decks and custom commander decks, but I play a lot of sealed, draft, and commander with precons (all unsleeved).
Assassin's Creed is going to bomb. Just wait for the packs to be heavily discounted
Yogscast played a game of commander a few months ago and their cards were unsleeved. Some of them are even into Magic.
Every time Crims faith in modern is restored... the drinking game.
Most of the Magic I play in person these days is 4 person drafts, and we don't bother to sleeve the decks.
I started sleeving in 1995 still have my original sleeves...lol
I didn't play with sleeves until I started proxying. My cards were worth nothing and I didn't have the money to spend on sleeves.
Maybe you guys should probably make a fishmail short series every week because it's been a while that you actually do it mora than one week in a row.
2000 sleeves from BCW is like 20$. If someone comes to my house to play, and they don't have sleeves, I just give them a set.
My prediction is that people will be very ready for Storm at the pro tour. And we'll see a lot of big mana decks playing Chalice on turn 1 and Trinisphere on turn 2. So to beat these big mana strategies we could see land destruction, Blood Moon and Harbinger of the Seas doing damage, but ironically Blood Moon does nothing vs storm lol. So there's that rock paper scissor game going on.
pretty sure that picture is of unsleeved cards is because it's an ad. wouldn't make much sense having an ad for magic and cover up the magic logo with sleeves
I have 3 decks that I run un-sleaved and riffle shuffle just to generate rage at the table
I 100% have started sleeving up boardgame cards. My wife gets annoyed cus I'll delay playing a new gane until I have the sleeves lol 7 Wonders has big ass card sleeves so there is a sleeve for every game.
I play unsleeved.
I align my lands like that every time... Keep your play space neat guys. Bottom Left of the stock photo is what my board looks like.
Sleeves and mats for days though.
By the way basic playing cards come sleeved already (they're laminated) would actually be cool if they made trading cards that way.
I sleeve my Dominion set, 3 expansions including
I do get some small satisfaction from everyone finally catching up to the conversation that many people who do not like UB have been trying to have since it's inception - licenses and reprints. MaRo has said on his blog that they don't believe there to be market demand for a full set of UB reprints that are all in-universe and they've already broken the "mechanically unique" promise by having sets they've indicated they will not be reprinting in MTG-original versions.
This is a problem that will only loom larger and larger as people keep pushing back against people voicing their distaste for UB, even as WotC's word on the subject means less and less.
"Second reserve list" isn't catastrophizing, it's a distinct possibility depending on how some of these products end up shaking out.
Yep, so far squad is a Warhammer exclusive mechanic. Released Oct 7 2022, almost 2 years and still mechanically unique to those decks.
36:30 There's no way they would argue that "the one ring" isn't trademarkable. Trademark lawyers might go along, but it would really annoy any future UB partners. Also, there's a copyright logo at the bottom right for Middle Earth Entertainment owning the art.
The One Ring is trademarked. tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=78979599
Yeah I'm glad I got my like 15 copies of open the way at like 50 cents
Singles will be the only thing i would want from this set 1 blade and 1 Edward Kenway and 1 of each actual assassin pirate
I sleave my proxies for stability but rarely my actual magic cards.
So what you're saying, Richard, is Assassin's creed is the new Balders gate
I feel like the problem with not supporting the assassin archetype in ACR stems from not having commons. You need commons to flesh out new themes in a set and the lack of those commons mean there’s no meat and potatoes for your theme to take shape.
I sleeve some boardgames. Terraforming Mars, for example, I have fully sleeved in the same sleeves I use for MtG. That said, c'mon guys, it's easier to photograph cards without sleeves, sleeves produce glare.
Always wear protection! I sleeve everything. Exploding kittens, terraforming Mars, DC comics
I sleeve ALL of my magic cards if I am going to play them…with how much you pay for them why would you not protect them? Also Amazon even suggests you buy sleeves and if you go to an LGS, they definitely recommend sleeves when you buy a product…
TFT and mortdog mentioned let's goooooooooooo
So I buy all the precons and use them to play just precon vs precon with friends and I don't sleave them. But my constuctive decks are all sleeved.
Yes i want to build a LOTR Fellowship deck or an Autobots deck or a Drizzt and crew deck. But it seems like they don't design enough cards to synergize that way
You can’t have sleeves featured as WOTC doesn’t own a sleeve brand which means they would be promoting and showing favouritism to a certain brand. I’m surprised the Fish Crew didn’t know this. It’s because they are not sponsored by Ultimate Guard.
I wonder how the UB reprint policy will work mechanically with cards. "The ring tempts you" and such seem like a weird gray area between gameplay moniker and trademark
"Urza tempts you"
They already said that UB reprints will get reworded keywords before.
@@TheEvolver311 Good to know. As if these mechanics weren't confusing enough already...
The reason this set being modern legal but not modern playable is for the kitchen table players that play "modern" but the extent of what they know about modern is that it exists as a format and the ban list. They don't follow the meta. They consume content. They just say they play modern so they can play 60 card 1v1 without running 4 sol rings in every deck. Also I can tell you that neither myself nor anyone I knew sleeved our cards until I started watching commander clash after 17 years of playing magic unsleeved.
On the Commander image: I don't know what the point is. No one can or will start playing in a void. You need someone to show you how the game works. So, that picture is clearly just some marketing company trying to make this look good, but they don't really have an idea what it's all about.
I want to see a power crept fast and the furious universes beyond.
No playmats, no sleeves, no regrets