Deceptors Tactics, Combos & Army Lists | Chaos Space Marines Tactica
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- čas přidán 1. 07. 2024
- #warhammer40k #40k #csm #alphalegion #chaosspacemarines
Today we'll be looking at the most duplicitous & devious of the Chaos Space Marine Legions, the Deceptors! Alpha Legion has long been one of the most beloved factions in all of Warhammer 40k & with the new 10th edition codex they're sure to gain even more fans
There's already been a hype train as long as Alpharius' list of schemes building for these guys & I'm excited to bring you this army review that will be covering all their special rules, enhancements & strategems. I've included a few combos & put together four different 40k army list for both competitive & casual play
Alpharius (& Omegon) have been some of the most impactful figures in 40k lore, going all the way back to before even the Horus Heresy. While there is a lot of mystery surrounding this legion I'm hoping I can pull back the shades on some of the strategy & tactics they use on the battlefield.
With the new Chaos Space Marines 10th edition codex finally released you should expect to see these boys going forward. With the unique & powerful enhancements these guys have access to you should expect to see a variety of playstyles being tested out. Even Abaddon would be shaking in his boots!
This video is part of my Legion / Detachment Overviews for the new codex so if you enjoyed the content please check my channel for Chaos tactic! I'll be covering (& have covered) many of renamed Legions: Renegade Raiders,, Fellhammer Siege-Host, Chaos Cults, Soulforged Warpack, Pactbound Zealots & more.
While mainly focused on tournament & competitive play, all of these tips should be applicable to casual/garagehammer as well. I'm working on getting some 40k battle reports & hopefully even some Chaos lore videos, as well as a final Chaos Space Marine tier list & legion ranking in the near future though hit me up if you have any suggestions! I'm hoping one day I can get to the 'same level' as Auspex Tactics or Art of War!
Please consider liking & subscribing if you haven't already & please let me know if I missed anything important or if you've been cooking up some strategies of your own.
If you're interested in competitive / tournament play for 10th edition Warhammer 40k, or are interested Chaos in general be sure to check out my other videos
Check out my Patreon at:
/ fatarchon
Join this channel:
/ @fatarchon
CHAOS SPACE MARINE ARMY LISTS:
List 1 - Alpha Legion / Deceptors Horde 2k Army List
Huron Blackheart (80pt)
Chaos Lord w/Cursed Fang (100pt)
Dark Commune (65pt)
Dark Commune (65pt)
Dark Commune (65pt)
Master of Execution w/Soul Link (85pt)
Master of Execution (80pt)
Cultists Mob (100pt)
Cultists Mob (100pt)
Cultists Mob (100pt)
Legionaries (160pt)
Legionaries (160pt)
Legionaries (160pt)
Legionaries (80pt)
Warp Talons (110pt)
Warp Talons (110pt)
Warp Talons (110pt)
Chaos Predator Destructor (130pt)
Chaos Predator Destructor (130pt)
List 2 - Alpha Legion / Deceptors '2nd Wave Theory' 2k Army List
Chaos Lord w/Cursed Fang (90pt)
Master of Execution w/Soul Link (80pt)
Master of Execution (80pt)
Master of Possession (70pt)
Sorcerer in Terminator Armor w/Shroud (105pt)
Cultists Mob (100pt)
Cultist Mob (50pt)
Cultist Mob (50pt)
Legionaries (80pt)
Legionaries (80pt)
Legionaries (80pt)
Possessed x10 (250pt)
Possessed (125pt)
Possessed (125pt)
Warp Talons (110pt)
Warp Talons (110pt)
Chaos Bikers (70pt)
Chaos Bikers (70pt)
Maulerfiend (130pt)
Maulerfiend (130pt)
List 3 - Competitive Deceptors (Chaos Space Marines 2k Army List)
Huron Blackheart (80pt)
Chaos Lord (90pt)
Master of Executions (80pt)
Master of Executions (80pt)
Sorcerer in Terminator Armor (90pt)
Cultists Mob (50pt)
Cultist Mob (50pt)
Cultist Mob (50pt)
Legionaries x10 (160pt)
Legionaries (80pt)
Legionaries (80pt)
Chaos Terminators (185pt)
Warp Talons (110pt)
Warp Talons (110pt)
Chaos Predator Destructor (130pt)
Chaos Predator Destructor (130pt)
Chaos Vindicator (175pt)
Forgefiend (190pt)
Chaos Daemon Allies:
Nurglings 40pt
Nurglings 40pt
TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro
01:34 Army Overview & Strengths
05:36 Detachment Rule
09:44 Downsides?
13:41 Enhancements
21:13 Strategems
29:10 Best Units
29:30 Huron Blackheart
31:31 Chaos Lords
34:23 Master of Executions
35:51 Terminator Sorcerer
38:01 Dark Commune
39:28 Lord Disco is Love
40:11 Cultist Mob
41:21 Legionaries
42:43 Chaos Terminators
43:52 Possessed
45:11 Warp Talons are Hate
46:22 Maulerfiend
47:40 Chaos Vindicator
49:03 Chaos Predator
50:13 Forgefiend
51:39 Soul Link Rundown
56:17 Fun Combos
58:03 Top Combos
59:17 40k Army Lists
59:32 Example List 1
01:01:21 Example List 2
01:03:02 Example List 3
01:04:53 Bonus List
01:06:17 What Do I Think of Deceptors?
01:07:23 Recap & Outro
Thanks for watching & please consider supporting the channel! - Hry
Great detachment review as always! A unit I haven't heard many folks mention for Deceptors is chosen. One of the unit's drawbacks is that their max threat range is inconsistent and therefor easy to play around, so giving them +3 to their charges for free with the lord's ability (plus another 3 inches of movement coming out of rhinos) on a go turn is big! Put Soul Link on a lord to give one unit the terminator sorcerer's +1 AP boost AND free re-rolls on their advances and charges (an ability tailor-made for chosen that's otherwise locked to termies) and you've got chosen that hit hard and consistently connect at a range few other CSM detachments can match. Multiple squads of chosen+lords also bring synergy to the army with their fall back, advance, and charge rule, giving consistent boosts to the From All Sides strat for our deep-strikers-and using it themselves for free thanks to the lords-which often swings games. It does mean bringing a few rhinos, but that's not bad given that they last longer on objectives than infantry, give you another unit to charge things to give +1 to From All Sides, AND you can use Relentless Pursuit to reembark one of your infantry units during your opponent's turn if your rhino is within 9 inches!
Wait is that true, could you really embark with that strat?
@bigkahuna1510 yup! You make a Normal Move so it's all gravy
EMBARK
If a unit makes a Normal, Advance or Fall Back move, and every model in that unit ends that move within 3" of a friendly TRANSPORT model, they can embark within it. A unit cannot embark if it has already disembarked from a TRANSPORT model in the same phase. Remove the unit from the battlefield and place it to one side - it is now embarked within that TRANSPORT model. Unless otherwise stated, units cannot do anything or be affected in any way while they are embarked.
@fatarchon
If the Soul Linkd Lord is embarked in the transport he therefore cannot use the Soul Link ability to copy the Termie Sorcerer as per Embarked Rules Commentary?
Embarked Units
Units embarked within a Transport do not count as being on the battlefield for any rules purposes.
This means that, unless explicitly stated otherwise, embarked units cannot do anything (e.g. shoot, fight, use abilities, etc.). Similarly, you cannot select an embarked unit as a target for any rules, including Stratagems.
Embarked units yeah that looks to be the case HOWVER most abilities & Enhancements work when you're in reserves at the very least. Only the ones that say "when the bearer is on the battlefield". Heck most people don't know you can use strats on units in reserves too!
Wait, using Relentless Pursuit to embark-dodge a charge is insanely Alpha Legion and cool as hell. I didn't even consider that. Definitely going to consider putting Rhinos into future lists to try that out.
Just discovered this channel and I’m loving the positive vibes 🙌 Hydra Dominatus
Hey Fat Archon keep up the good work. It would be cool to see some of your TTS games. I believe seeing some of your tactics and strategies in action would be very beneficial.
very insightful, thanks brother :)
Great channel ❤❤❤
Do you even sleep dude? You've been busting these out like a mad man!!
My ork war hoard is almost assembled and painted. Then I’ll work on my csm again.
It’s like that meme of 2 spidermen pointing at one another.
I might even set stuff up and play myself in some practice games. Then I always win.
I actually think Falsehood is pretty good if you use your Infiltrators solely to clog and distract while setting up proper defensive positions and counter charges with the rest of your army. I run 2/3 Infiltrator Legionaries leaderless deployed on opposite ends of the map if possible. This way, I see where my opponent's forces are clumping up, decide reactively which side of the board I need to either reinforce or abandon, and "reveal" my Chaos Lord accordingly. Chaos Lords are incredible force multipliers, and by having one lying in wait means your opponent can't effectively set up a means to blitz him down.
In the 3 Deceptors games I've played so far, I've been able to massively shift the tide of a fight by letting my opponent commit to one end of the board, while I Falsehood into the opposite side. Of course, these works best if you invest in proper deathsquads and supporting vehicles, rather than going full Herohammer, since Falsehood only works with leaderless Legionaries/Chosen.
I had a feeling some of the players out there would be able to find sneaky good combos with that one. I'll have to finally give it a shot myself tbh, it's easy to handwave without even trying it
Have you been using Huron at all?
@@fatarchon I didn't realize how good Huron was until this video, so no. I'll definitely be trying him out now, though.
I wish they had sniper or sneaky models for CSM for Alpha Legion players. After Emperor's Children of course, they'll probably release Night Lords or Iron Warriors before Alpha Legion - if they ever do. A few special models would be nice.
Chaos assassins in general would be the greatest thing ever.. Maybe when we get Dark Mechanicum they'll toss us a few. Really wish they'd port over some of the 30k models :(
@@fatarchon Agreed. Even non-Alpha Legion CSM could benefit from them.
I actually don’t think they’ll split the codex beyond emperors children, iron warriors will always be in the codex like how salamanders will always be codex marines
@@fluiypj Agreed. My original comment was probably cope. It would be cool if they had their individual codices in the future, but realistically, only the mono-god chaos legions will have their own. GW might do it if they're struggling with releasing new content in the future - but they have plenty to work with before resorting to that. However, I do think there will be more bespoke models for other legions, like Perturabo should come out at some point.
Great Video! - BUT WE ALMSOT AT THE MONEY Aha. i honestly love you made us all wait! Awoooooo!
I belive, u cant use onece per games multiple times with soul link.
It says "this model can use this ability only once"
Its still the same model, and its still the same ability.
Probably it doesnt remove commune 🇻🇳 or apostle abilities
Yeah I think you're right! In weird workaround way you could use it twice but only with a different character borrowing it. Great catch tho
Tbh I'm not sure I'd really put Soul Link on the Lord anyways, I'd rather grab his ability for someone else but time will tell the best route to take
Seen ur thoughts on reddit and love the channel ❤. Was wondering if there will be a video for the renegade raiders detachment too?
Appreciate the comment fwiend! The Renegade Raiders is actually in progress right now, so hopefully within the next day or so I can get it out
@@fatarchon legend. Keep it up dude!
I main Alpha Legion. Another cool advantage of their lore is that you can run any detachment rules you like with them, and it's still feel completely in character. I can't wait to try this out I think I might try running Brigands since the detachment rules don't do much for vehicles, so the competition or opportunity cost of them vs codex sheets is nonexistent. I think another cool way to think about our army is having more points to play with because we're likely not paying a rhino tax (Rhinos are maybe to good to be considered a tax, but still our rhinos are optional lol) Also kinda funny that Huron has part of our 9e detachment rule as an ability lol
Lol I love the idea of plopping down a bunch of Alpha Legion models & saying "yup, these are my Ultramarine >:)"
Brigands is probably a smart pick, they're self sufficient & like you said this legion isn't really helping your vehicles much aside from Pick Them Off. I think bringing resilient units of any kind is the way to go, Cultists will drop like flies & even Legos will be fairly fragile into most armies
I've been having a blast running these guys though, I've been using the "threat overload" / rush style & so far it's been working out great (& most importantly is FUN). My only complaint is that I can only give one model Soul Link hah
@@fatarchon I'm so excited lol hearing it's been fun is making me even more hyped. >:D
@@fatarchonI mean, if you limit yourself to running units both have, so preds and Land Raiders and rhinos...
Land Raiders & Rhinos with a bunch of Chosen popping out - I like it!
@@fatarchon well to be fully interchangeable you'd lean more on termies and "assault marines," but yeah.
Id love to know your thoughts on a 1000pts lists, ill be running doubles with a friend who is playing the demon engines, so he will probably ve focusing on vehicles and i on infantry
Hmmm, I'd heavily consider bringing Huron that way you can forward deploy everything but if you go 2nd you can pull them back
Its up to you if you want to go balls out & attach characters to your infil units or go cheap to use them as moveblockers & put everything else into ranged or 2nd wave
If you go the character route you might be low on pts, 3 Lego 3 cultist is already 390pt. Huron would put you at 470pt (if you went that route) so that leaves 530pt to work with. Prolly bring a Predator & then a couple squads of either Chosen or Possessed.. Prolly try to get some Warp Talons in there :)
If you drop Huron you could swap him for a Lord & maybe bring an MoE w/soul link for the other squad
You could consider a max squad of Legos + Lord as a hammer, if you get a good first turn that could win you the game on its own vs some lists
Its hard to say with 1k because so many pts get automatically tied up but yeah I'd def want some firepower or heavy hitters to support everything from T2+
You can increase your charge threat with the falsehood enhancement if you kill a model in the middle of your squad with the closest possible placement location being at the front. Now you have added an entire 40mm base in the front which is more than 1" of distance. This equals to either +1 to charge or +2 in some Situations. This also allows me to conceal the location of my Lord making him appear exactly where those 3 wound models are, that my opponent tried to hide from me. Chaos lords are scary models, and not knowing where one will show up is a disadvantage that can be worth killing a legionary with special weapon that wouldn't have contributed much in melee.
Tbh I think that's probably the main advantage of the relic, I do like the thought of playing mindgames with your opponent on where he'll pop up too hah
I'm not sure I'd ever want to use it on a Chosen model at least if I could help it, but with Legos I could see paying ~17pt to gain an inch or two to your charge being worth it sometimes
I noticed this the other day in the Index version, at least (Still haven't gotten a copy of the Codex), that you can get a second Heavy Weapon in a maxed Legionary squad. What do you think of taking an Autocannon alongside the Lascannon? With the new profile it looks a little tempting, even in a mostly melee unit.
AC is great as is the Missile Launcher (really almost any of them). Personally I go ML usually as it plays into the AT but also gives you a little blast, but you can't go wrong with the others either
bro, you are Alpha and Omega!)
Thank you very much for the guide, and I just want to collect the alpha!
Of course, there are questions, like how to screen, how to use infiltrators, etc. As you can see, I’m a newbie)
Judging by the rules and build options that you offer, I experienced a little embarrassment in terms of purchases.
I was thinking of catching a VotLW battleforce and delivering it through the Polish post office (in my country there were problems with delivery due to the war).
But 10 terminators are probably not the most necessary for a strat for the first 1000 points.
Probably the new combat patrol would be better. As I understand it, first I need a lot of cultists, legionnaires, lords and other characters. Could you give me some advice for a starting army in this case?)
Liked and subscribed ;)
Thank you very much for the kind words :) Terminators are totally valid, they're FANTASTIC for learning the army too as they're pretty forgiving, both resilience & with the Deepstrike
I actually have a video all about getting started with CSM that goes over that boxset too / some of the routes I'd go for expanding them! czcams.com/video/m1emSlEFozY/video.htmlsi=Hd9kqUuqeE2yq7JG
Do let me know if you still have any questions tho I'm more than happy to help out
@@fatarchon
Bro, apparently I won't be able to buy Battleforce. But at the same price, for example, I can buy a new combat patrol and, for example, half a box of Eldritch Omens.
Of course, we need a lot of lords, cultists, legiomers, definitely Huron. I will turn the impulser into a rhino or predator. I also have a cypher and and 5 interprocessors that are asking for kitbash)
Please tell me how you would gather an army of at least 1000 for the alpha?
maximum Alpha Legion core army, from what is available. Lords, I’ll probably print it. It will be more profitable this way
What would be your opinion on Abaddon leading some Chosen as part of the “Second Wave”??? They’re quite slow to footslog but hopefully you’ve made your opponent quite busy at the start of the game. Seems like giving your heavy firepower reroll hits on the approach only to hit the midboard with a 4+ invuln for your dug-in Astartes infantry squads seems fun at least!!! There’s some Epic Hero anti-synergy, but I agree with you that Huron is well worth it despite. Abaddon is just quite a bit chunkier points-wise. Curious to know your perspective!!
For epic heroes, I played Deceptors again last night & I think Huron is a must have, if you end up going 2nd he's VITAL in pulling your guys back so they don't get smashed first turn (I actually forgot & basically got tabled lmao)
For Abaddon, he costs a lot BUT he would help shore up the damage output because otw that's something this detachment might struggle with. There is the small issue of he won't necessarily be able to help your infiltrated units until T2+ but still if you're bringing along a lot of shooting or the 2nd wave he'd give them a heavy punch. He'd also help with the threat saturation, your opponent might want to shoot your screens but if they see Abaddon in the background they'll have to choose who's more important
So long as you're able to include a few hammers with Abby yeah I think he'd be worth trying at the very least
@@fatarchon Does huron's redeploy occur before or after first turn is determined?
Right before :( Unless their ability specifically says otherwise it's before knowing who goes first I do believe
Hello, regarding to the soul link, I'm afraid that you can't steal the ability of the dark apostle, as it is worded same than dark commune (need to get a dark apostle to make it works).
Yeah I let that one slip :( Good catch! One thing I wish I had brought up is that you can use it to borrow abilities from models in Strategic Reserves which I think is pretty neat
@@fatarchon I think gw needs to make some clarifications about the exact use of this relic
I think they have tbh, not for this specific relic but I *believe* in their Rules Commentary in the past they've said that you can still use abilities / strategems / etc on models in reserves. Unless the ability specifically says "is on the battlefield" then it's fair game!
A lot of people don't know or forget about that all that time, esp using Strategems. You can use a strat in your command phase or whatever to give a unit Adv&charge then DS them in etc
Soul Linking the Dark Apostle's +1 to wound ability doesnt work for the same reason you cannot take Dark Commune's ability. it says 'if this unit contains Dark Apostle'
Yea, dark commune ability on marines would be nasty, imagine that on chosen
@@fluiypj sarcasm..?
@@emperoramp9305 not sarcasm, it’s probably for the best that chosen can’t access a 5++ and +1 to hit and wound, that would be a blender
Howdy howdy. I really hate it but I wanna point out that the only ability you get from the Dark Apostle is the battleshock one. It's worded like the Dark Commune one where you only get the +1 to wound if there is a Dark Apostle specifically in the unit. It makes me sad ;-;
Yes you're absolutely right, I was sad when I noticed too :( one of my favorite models for CSM
I have a question about The soul link ability I can pick a epic hero too or just normal character
(I sorry for my poor english skill)
Only normal characters sadly, so no epic heroes :( Your English seems fantastic by the way, no need to ever apologize for that!!
@@fatarchon Oh I see thank!!
@@fatarchon Um I have another question for Enhancements Falsehood If I already have a character lead that unit I can use this enhancements to that unit right?
Nah sadly the unit you're warping to can't have any characters attached :'( They put a lot of restrictions to some of these. I think you can only use Falsehood with a Chaos Lord too by the way
Feel free to toss me any other questions! I love helping new players so it's no trouble at all
Dark Apostle ability is like the dark communes. You nedd a dark Apostle to get the plus 1 to wound sadly.
'Doh, good eye!
With the recent points change, why not go 6 5 mans of legionaries and have some infiltrate and the others be in transports?
That could work! Going to 90pt was a little rough but they're still great battleline & for sure Rhino's are some of the best transports out there. The new CP rules are a boon to Lords too now that you can reduce any strats cost. It's only a 60pt premium to bring that many Legos versus before so not a bad option at all
Can I see some 1000 points list with this Deceptors detachment?
Sure man! I always have trouble writing 1k's but I'd probably shoot for something along these line - remember you can only Infil x2 of each unit when playing 1k too
Chaos Space Marines 1,000pts
Chaos Lord [90pts] Daemon hammer, Plasma pistol, Warlord
Chaos Lord [90pts]: Daemon hammer, Plasma pistol
Cultist Mob [50pts]
Cultist Mob [50pts]
Legionaries 80pts
Legionaries 80pt
Legionaries 80pt
Raptors 85pt
Warp Talons 110pt
Warp Talons 110pt
Vindicator 175pt
@@fatarchon thanks, bro
As much as 5pts is very reasonable, it seems like that Soul Link enhancement should just be a part of the Detachment Ability, but otherwise work the same way. With all the many things GW will hear complaints about this, is pretty minor, but it seems kinda like silly design.
I agree actually! Every character should've been able to use it, it's not busted strong or anything & it's SUCH a good rule that they should've used it more imo
Why do people like legionaries? They're only strength 4 (excluding heavy two hander). I find they hardly kill anything and still like chosen which can get up to str 6.yiu mind explaining why you think legions are good? considering they seem weak
I think it’s the general mix of usefulness. Decent combat mix of chain swords and heavy weapons, ranged with a las cannon or chain cannon, 2 OC, very cheap and also help attached characters to get their re roll 1’s to wound on objectives.
They might not always kill what they hit but seem like great value for their points IMHO.
On top of what Scotian was saying, they're just so damn points efficient - moreso than even Chosen (for "points per damage"). The fact they're oc2 is a huge deal too, controlling obj is literally how you win your game!
But yeah mainly it's because they're 80pt. When they were 100pt you never saw them unless it was for the memes hah. Chosen & the sort still have their uses but yeah, Legos belong in almost every list
In deceptors u can run them with an apostle for +1 to wound, they have reroll on wounds and extra ability for soullink. For example rerolls oh hits from master of execution. They are cheap and have infiltrate ability.
Oh yeah great point on handing off rr wounds to their leaders. Nothing but perks hah
Oh my thank you all for the responses. I value these advice. Will definitely take them out the box then! Thank you all again