Session 1: Padmasambhava and History
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- čas přidán 29. 11. 2018
- Presented by Gray Tuttle
Discussants: Jacob Dalton and Lewis Doney
Facilitator: Benjamin Bogin
While Padmasambhava is frequently described as a pivotal figure in the arrival and acceptance of Buddhism in imperial Tibet, no documents that are clearly contemporary with the Tibetan empire mention him. For instance, though later legends associate him strongly with Tibet’s first monastery, Samye, and its sponsoring emperor, Tri Songdetsen (active in late 8th century), neither the inscriptions on bells or stele from the monastery nor the emperor’s 42-year reign mention him. The earliest Tibetan manuscripts from a cave at Dunhuang that was closed around the year 1,000 do not record any of the rich narratives about Padmasambhava. They appear in the 12th-century biography of this figure, which remains the earliest account of his life. The presenter will question Tibetan studies scholars treating Padmasambhava as a historical figure. The respondents will suggest alternative views on the “historicity” of Padmasambhava and engage in a constructive debate about the historical significance of this figure.
There are two sources omitted here that should be addressed. One is Tang Dynasty military records of the Trisong Deutsen’s Tibetan Empire, which I have heard mention Padmasambhava. I have no direct knowledge of that. The second is that Nubchen Sangye Yeshe is said to have mentioned one or two of GR’s texts-amongst the list that Prof. Dalton presented-and he is believed to have been a 9th century figure. I’m also not convinced that no images appear of Guru Rinpoche in Tibetan art before the Nyangrel Nyima Ozer period. I would like to see a panel with a real specialist on ancient Tibetan art, a Tang dynasty specialist, and a specialist on Indian tantric literature on this topic.
I met lotus born in my samadhi. Period.
❤
If you really want to know more about Padma Sambhava, then best text or Sutra is Kathang Dernga.
We DZOGCHEN practitioners have a systematic proven methodology for Ultimate Transformation. I have had, personally, very close Masters of mine transform into LIGHT and another left behind over 100 Shr LI Tze
I think some of the termas were also said to be “hidden” in the mind-stream for future discovery
Yes. The termas have different categories and some are said to be immaterial, that is true.
a trick: you can watch movies at flixzone. Been using it for watching a lot of movies these days.
@Benton Reese definitely, been using Flixzone for since december myself :D
@Benton Reese Yea, have been watching on Flixzone for months myself :)
such a peripatetic historian, well done at being so Aristotelian...
Exactly what Padmasambhava foretold would be said about him.
Truly said! Truly said! As foretold in all the Termas- Outer Inner and Secret
My Rinpoche said to me;” Tibet was a really really rough violent place…. To take such a place is more than a miracle “
When this cuck denigrated President Trump, the most loved President in American history… this puss bucket lost all of his pseudo credibility
BTW…. In the Precious SURUNGAMA SUTRA the Buddha predicted that slimy outsiders would create lies and false teachings such as this
Merlin the wizard was a figure that was associatited the dark forces (from what I understand)
The question of introduction; the answer I got from someone: padmasambhava personal life was very unusual hard.
Tibetan people experience their own life as a lineage where the previous incarnations leave a memory assessable (in time when needed) for the present day person.
The guru’s life was so hard we don’t want to remember all the details. Only parts of his life are remembered by one person.
well, he's a indian man who travelled towards china-tibet. at that time india means combining both iranian and nepal, butan etc.
Love this presentation! Especially your humility ! Thank you 🙏💜🙏
🙏🙏🙏
just a wild guess but have you looked in another country? there are many traces and artefacts of Padmasambhava in Bhutan, as shown here:
czcams.com/video/-hCXwruvJOE/video.html
1:11:48 YW! (Please note that this is intended as a index into the above mentioned URL; I do not know proper syntax to reference into an external URL)
@@OnerousEthic Ah, thank you! 🙏😄
@@xtraa oh my, you have given me remarkable synchronistic affirmation! Such timing!
Great Buddha.
They deleted it.
Really?
Padmasambhava, not an historic figure? That is how you open the conference?
Is this not an adequate reference to indisputable evidence? czcams.com/video/-hCXwruvJOE/video.html (skip to 1:11:48). Full disclosure: this video was posted in 2018; that video was posted in 2019.
But alas, the good professor arguably brought about the revelation that was waiting for his call…
All figures are semi mythical. Winston Churchill is part myth. A story. Robin hood was probably slightly inspired by various bandits. There's a continuum between the not completely fictional (hood) to the almost factual (Churchill).
He's more at the hood end of the spectrum. Or possibly completely mythic. I suspect he did exist in early Buddhist Tibbet as a superbly charismatic guru who left a big impact in the folk memory wether he brought Buddhism to Tibbet as described in formal writing later is another matter.
Just as Arthur probably existed as a leader - but later stories were more invention than history and place him in places he never went in centuries he didn't live in.
Me to these historians: chugguley (u want to die???) in korean
These “ scholars” are so disingenuous and ethnocentric that they don’t even bother to respectfully learn properly the Tibetan and Sanskrit pronunciation of if Names and terms. How can they be believed at all? Personally, I have far more Faith in Dharma, the Lineage and the practices yielding genuine results than these outsiders!
Tibetan Buddhist seem to think they are immune to fundamentalist tendencies. They are not! Everyone is sooner or later going to have to wake up to the fact that not everything in their histories and doctrines is literally true. Even some things that may be very important to them. The average Tibetan lama in my experience, while warm, genuine, and tolerant, has a tendency towards literalism about certain myths and doctrines as strong as any Christian fundamentalist. But such things don't have to be literally true to point to a Truth beyond history and doctrine. Deep down we all know that. We just can't or simply don't want to apply it rigorously to ourselves. Bottom line, what difference does it really make if Padmasambhava was an actual historical person or not? The spiritual practices ascribed to him either work to transform you into a happier more compassionate and loving person or they don't. If they do, use them. If they don't, don't.
@@davidramsey2566 What do you think is the source of all these practices and teachings if Padmasambavha had not actually existed?
@@davidramsey2566 well said my brother… well said. It dosnt matter if the history is true or not. If the paractices work now… they work now. If not… not. You check. Maybe myth and history is also “empty of inherent existence”… and equally as illusory as all other phenomena in Samsara / Nirvana 😎🙏😇
There are SO many teachings that are insanely amazing in relation to consciousness. This dude has not listened to 1 Padmasambhava terma treasures. I can’t listen to such blasphemy.
Yes, I agree. He ignores the fact that non literate people have techniques for passing on teachings verbally from generation to generation over great periods of time. Governments and official state business had need for written documents. Treaties, laws, financial matters, taxation, diplomatic correspondence come to mind, which required officials able to read and write. The majority of people were rural and unsophisticated, they had not time or need to become literate so they preferred story-telling, as it were. Parables illustrating a teaching can be remembered easily and passed on. I remember many nursery rhymes from my log gone childhood to this day.
well, if you need more info about padmasambhava, you can ping me or comment here and there are some texts which you can findout if you dig deep in india probably. But don't mention he's a budha please he's a guru a great being but not budha. sorry no offense but that's truth only if you do some research. THank you.
Doubts on second Buddha leads to doubts on first Buddha, doubts on first Buddha leads to doubts on modern society and believe modern society leads to end of the world.
The end is near.
No! Padmasambhava the lotus born is within doubt amazing and i have great respect for him and his resolute determination on dharma practice.
But do let me tell you 1 THING he is NOT a buddha.
Lord buddha clearly told us this kalpa/kappa has only 5 buddhas so our buddha is from 2500 and he was the fourth buddha.
Metteya is the last and not padmasambhava
Just telling you to become a buddha you need an 4 incalculable and inconceivable kalpas and a 100.000 eons.
Besides if padmasambhava was a buddha then the buddha would have predicated his coming in the sutta / sutras
But i cant find anything being said about padmasambhava in those suttas/ sutras.
And if there are then please send SOURCES.
@@supremeknowing
Lord Buddha predicted the coming of Guru Padmasambhava in many Sutras and Tantras.......All Tibetan knows, he is the emanation of Amitabha Buddha. He is our Second Buddha......the founder of Vajrayana Buddhism.
Dude, the names change. These are reoccurring patterns, you are looking for a body, they are talking about something else…
The level of audacity these men have talking about the most important Tibetan figure "Padmasambhava," is beyond my comprehension. Unfortunately, there isn't anyone in the audience to say otherwise. Had they given this lecture to Tibetan scholars and lamas, then they would be corrected before uttering nonsense. As it goes to show, westerners will not fully understand eastern traditions because their views and logics handicap the full teachings and meanings behind the sutras. So please listen to Tibetan Lama if you want to learn about Padmasambhava. Also, since Tibetan buddhism is nuanced, Nignmapa lineage holds the most complete teaching from Padmasambhava, who is called Guru Rinpoche across the Himalayas.
Padmasamvawa used to wear nepali dhako cloth hat.
We all know hat represents identity of the person.
He was nepali.
That is nothing, there never was an historical Jesus either, he is a completely fictional character cobbled together from Gnostic writings, yet yow many millions are deceived by this. The prophet Mohamed's existence is questionable too, the 114 suras were composed long after his death.
Solomon,? David? completely fictional kings
Yet all these mythical figures will outlive you, me and even Gray Tuttle, Jacob Dalton and Lewis Doney. We are all empty of permanence.
Lotus born means born in the mind chakra. He is the entity that holds the trident that controls the Nagas also known as the Ouroborus
The truth is we are all fictional. Not more or less, but completely. A basic Dharma teaching. And not just according to Dharma teachings.
@@HelsinkiFINketeli_berlin_com Are Samskaras fictional? Are rays of the absolute fictional? Only our understanding of them is fictional. Only dualism is fictional.
why this guy keeps nonstop talking