Everything You Were Too Scared To Ask About Quickdraws | Climbing Daily Ep.1171
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- čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
- We all know that quickdraws are vital in protecting all types of roped climbing...but what kind of forces are they put through? We spent some time with Singing Rock in the Czech Republic to find out the science...and geeky facts behind a quickdraw.
Check out some Singing Rock gear: goo.gl/631DEL
Everything You Were Too Scared To Ask About Quickdraws | Climbing Daily Ep.1171
Anyone have anything else they've always wanted to know about quickdraws?
How long do they last? I mean, ho wmuch time should i use my quickdraws until i buy antother ones?
I think that goes for all the gear, it depends how much you use it and what condition you keep it under (etc. cleaning it and storing) Gear with obvious damage (e.g. cracks or rust) should be binned straight away. Smaller things like scratches should be fine if they only affect the paint, but then again it might be more prone to rust etc. Overall, I would always inspect my gear before and after each climb/trip and rather be on the safe side and invest in a new piece of gear, rather than be up on the wall hoping my gear will hold.
What is the kilonewton strength on the dog bone?
I myself prefer the wire gates. I feel like they have a smoother clip
Wow, nice answer man, thanks! That helped
How do they draw so quickly?
Geez, that’s how long I’ve been out of the sport. I remember guys making these up before trips with webbing and carabiners. Everyone had THE way to make them and why you’d die doing it like the guy across from you. As fun and great as the actual climbing was, the planning and kit building meetups were just as memorable.
Every trip I would get sewing machine leg and I stopped going out on climbs as they’re trips got bigger.
Quickdraw=2crabs + a sling.
Things were never designated jobs...we'll see how it goes,eh?
Hi Matt, I just wanted to share a warning about wiregates on the bolt end, in Australia, a lot of crags use glued in machine bolts (GIMB) aka "Carrots" which require boltplates, NEVER use wiregate/boltplate combo, because the wiregate is so thin, the boltplate can fall off the carrot with the quickdraw still attached.
I understand boltplates are rare around Europe but it's worth noting if you ever plan to climb in Australia.
@@paulberesford2712 Apparently Australia has tons of bolts that don't have hangers, so you need to bring your own. Sounds dangerous to me, but then again I'm not Aussie so my opinion doesn't really matter.
@@danielhebard1865 yes it's something about climbing culture in australia. they prefer to leave all routes trad, and even if they bolt they only put on the bolt without the hanger in order to reduce the visual impact on the cliff. i climbed there for a couple of years and used wire gates :o i never knew it was dangerous
It’s all about the sound! There is nothing more satisfying than the sound of clipping to the bolt and then clipping the rope. I even have a dopamine rush watching a video with someone clipping in. Wait, I need to watch the video again! 😁
Couldn't agree more!😎
I also love the solid gate sound! So satisfying!
The solid gate biners don't ALL open during the "vibration / shake" phase which may occur during a fall (when the rope rapidly pulls through). Many modern (2018) gates have higher opening pressures so this may not happen. The risk, however is NOT that the rope might fall out of the biner but rather that when the gate is open the strength drops from 24kn to 8kn (varies from carabiner to carabiner obviously). Eight KN may be low enough to fracture if the gate is still open when the load comes onto it. Ouch
It does seem that the timing of the gate opening and the elongation/strain that would cause the gate not to close could occur at the same time.
i like quickdraw gates that make a nice loud click as well. better for your belayer if youre doing a really hard clip, he can listen for the sound and know whether youve already got it or not
Great videos guys really enjoying the channel and gear fridays :)
Bring on the geeky gear details - always learning something new!
A kilo Newton is not a "physical volume". It is a unit of a force.
For those interested, see wikipedia article here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton_(unit)
His English just isn't the best.
Is there going to be (or has there been) a video on how to clean a route if you haven’t made it to the top etc?? Gear required and techniques?
Absolutely! There's no video related to technique "How to clean/belay an unfinished route on YT :-) It would be very helpfull.
@@paulberesford2712 true, exept often when your lets say multipitching you dont have you clipstik with you, in that case you have to leave a carabiner behind. Clip a carabiner in to a bolt like a quickdraw (rope also cliper into that carabiner) then you. Should atatch a prusik to the rope goint tou your belayer. And clip they onther end to your harnes. This prusik is there so that in case the top bold breaks out there isnt that large off a fall. Than you can be lowwerd like usual
Screw a cheap mallion into a bolt, clip and screw the rope into it. Abseil down and retrieve your quick draws.
@@danieleden2550 just keep in mind that if left outside for a while it might be impossible for the next person to take off
I have always struggled to trust quickdraws as I was formally trained in fire/rescue services. In that field, EVERYTHING must be locking and steel. Double up everything and make sure it it overly constructed and sturdy.
In my personal climbing, I have carried it over, but more recently started to get into trad climbing, which requires a little different approach.
It has been hard to shake my original lessons, but slowly I have gained some trust. I love clear videos like this that go into the pros, cons and uses for each piece of gear as this makes it simple and easy to understand why and how this gear should be used.
Such a great video! In the future maybe doing a video on the appropriate use of the different types of carabiners? It's such a confusing topic for me personally.. What carabiners to use for belaying, for belaying from above, to built an anchor, etc...
I stopped climbing in the mid-70s. Back then there were no quick draws... that I knew of. When did these come into existence?
Would love to hear about your old school climbing days. Must have been an exciting time to be a climber!
Quick draws really took off with the rise of sport climbing in the '80's and '90's. For some reason, climbers fell in love with sewn 'draws and runners...stronger than tied slings, but I've always felt that the increase in strength is overkill, and makes runners and draws relatively expensive. My climbing partners laugh at me, because I still like to save money by tying my draws and slings with a water knot in 9/16" webbing
Same here , I climbed in the 70s and early 80s. Then again we never had the saying " sport climbing" as we never had bolted routs. In fact bolting was reserved for big walls and in my parts New England and New York bolts would generally be cut off as they were considered unnecessary and the thought of drilling a hole in the rock as permeant damage. I climbed mostly at the Gunks in NY and there were a few old pins but not many. We made our own runners using I think the water knot. It funny how times have changed, my nephew is a super environmentalist he is a gym and sport climber and when I told him how bolts were viewed in my day he just could not get it. Our feeling was maybe you are not good enough if you need bolts run up the wall and its blasphemy to drill the sacred rock. How times have changed. At the age of 60 I plan on joining a climbing gym as soon as things get back to normal, for me its mostly for fitness. I am not sure if I will ever climb outside again but maybe. I think my leading days are over. The new gear looks very nice though.
Since you wanted a geeky answer, 1 kN is 1000 Newtons, which is a unit of force. Pounds are also a unit of force (weight is basically the same as force). 1 kN is about 225 lbs. So, even in cross-loading, if your carabiner is rated to 8 kN it can handle about 1800 lbs of force.
Also, since we're on the topic, kilograms are not a measurement of force (or weight), they are a measurement of mass. If you want to get Newtons from kilograms, just multiply by gravity (9.8 m/s^2).
Matthew Sussman this us off topic though
I think what you are saying here is not all quite correct.
Pounds and Kilograms both only measure mass. (not force)
There are actually two different type of pounds: pound-force (lb-f) and pound-mass (lb-m). If you hear "pounds" and they don't specify which it is, you can assume they mean pound-force. Pound-mass is rarely used outside of the science world.
Source: Mechanical engineer
Matthew Sussman actually there are three. £
If the sentence "weight is basically the same as force" were to be true I would be very strong, haha.
mass x gravity = weight, which is the force acting on an objet (with a certain mass) due to gravity
Hello, just want to mention, that when attacking the rubber piece to the Quick draw make sure to have it and the sling connect to the draw. There have been a few incidents where people only use the rubber piece to hold the draw. The rubber piece is not strong enough to hold the weight of a person so please make sure before using someone's gear that it's safe. :)
leighton v This sounds so obvious but I think only last year someone died from this mistake!
yeah, good to point that out. sad but true... www.climbing.com/skills/prevent-quickdraw-failure/
Seems like a lot of manufacturers are trying to fix this by putting the rubber part on the inside. My BD and Wild country draws both got the rubber on the inside so its not possible to clip them wrong. Got a petzl one though that its possible in. Quite scary but I think most manufactures should move to putting it on the inside to reduce the risks
If I dropped my QuickDraw from a height i.e. 50’ or more, do I have to retire it even if I can’t find any damage to it? Thanks
Ian Chung Chuan Hin you should, it may suffer from internal damage (even if it’s not visible) so right now is not a safe equipment to be using, that’s just my opinion! Cheers!
So long as the gates open and close the same and there's no damage that will affect the strength or integrity of the draw, then they're fine. Aluminum carabiners don't get micro fractures like steel ones can.
Question
Does it matter if the carabineer gates face the same direction vs. opposite?
Josh Neuberger It does. You should always clip quickdraws so that the spine or back of the carabiner that the rope is clipped into is facing the direction you are moving. If the gates are facing different directions and the top carabiner is clipped with the gate facing toward the center of the bolt hanger, then the top carabiner could potentially unclip from the bolt hanger if the quickdraw is pulled towards the direction you're moving. So it's better to have both carabiners facing the same side in a quickdraw. I think Black Diamond made a video about this not too long ago.
Black Diamond made a whole article about that topic. It should still be on their page.
Believe it or not, I also like the sound of a solid gate draw. Besides that, it has happened a couple of times, especially doing the crux, that I got my finger jammed inside the wire gate. The weight difference between a wire gate draw and a solid gate draw does not matter to me when I'm sport climbing in which I usually need 12 to 20 draws.
Thank you for the helpful video! My question is what are safe ways to mark/personalize QuickDraws so that they don’t get confused for another climber’s?
Nail polish works well
Excellent and informative, thanks
glacier travel would of been nice.
I like the gear show. Helpful and interesting
Hi, great vid! Keep up the awesome work these are very helpful!
How can I make sure to trust permanent draws?
I have been searching for a wire-wire QD. But there seems to be just a few models of carabiners on the market with a “clean nose” and a wiregate. Why is that? Because this model is the most secure one right?
And those I’ve found are very expensive. For example a the DMM Trad Light starts at about 30€ for one QD. Kind a similar with the petzl Ange. Why is the combination of wiregate with a clean nose so expensive?
The BD Oz alpine draw has both wiregates!
6:22 that ring looks sketchy...
We are all weird!
Stay beautiful fellow nerds!
Great vid guys! Not first btw, haha
KARABAJNER
How many falls can a quickdraw take?
there's no one answer. It depends on how you take care of it, size of falls, age, storage conditions, and many other factors. It's safe to say it should be a lot as long as you take good care of it. Just always inspect your quickdraws (and the rest of your gear for that matter) before you go climbing
Newton is a unit of force
Kilogram is a unit of mass
Here on Earth we can use the FORCE of gravity to measure the MASS.
Killroy Not quite.
A Newton is a unit of force.
And mass is a unit of how many atoms are in an object. And we use mass and Newtons (gravity) to measure weight, which is why you would weight less on the moon.
@@TomSawyer1010 , what you are saying is not correct because different atoms have different "atomic weight" - I could be slightly off, but check your periodic table. "Mol" is a measure of # of atoms.
For the original topic, let's just remember F= ma. ;)
Matt, ur going grey mate!
and bald
At 08:53 is that a fart?
was about to ask the same question! funny though!
1kN does not equal 100N, kilo is 1000 so 1kN is 1000N
he said 100kg not 100N. 100kg ~= 1000N in earth's gravity
He says that 1 kN is equal to 100 "kilos", by which he means kilograms. He is saying that 1 kN of force is roughly equal to the gravitational force acting on a 100 kg object.
F=MA . force = mass * acelleration. Accelleration = gravity = 9.81m/s^2
22KN = 22'000 = mass * 9.81. --> mass = 2'242 Kg
or
1KN = 101.9Kg * 9.81m/s^2