2023 BMW R1250GS - The Amazing & the Truly Awful
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
- I recently purchased a 2023 R1250GS after nearly five years on a Triumph Tiger 1200. There were a few surprises in store for me! This machine was never going to blow me away, that might be reserved for those trading up from smaller machines, but I wasn't prepared for what I found. There is a lot to like about this bike, but it has its faults too.
My height is 6' (182cm) with a short 29" leg (74cm). I weigh 18St 5lbs (116kg or 257lbs). The bike is a new 2023 R1250GS with stock Anakee Adventure tyres correctly inflated. It is factory stock with zero modifications. I had its first service and there are no issues with the bike.
I have owned both and they were/are the current generation. I’m not even considering going back to Triumph. You do have some legit points but your Triumph bias is impacting your perspective. I have yet to find anyone say the suspension on the BMW is bad. That is out of left field for myself and any other rider I know out here. Triumph is a good bike, but GS is still king when it comes to Adv.
My Triumph bias is only from my recent Triumph ownership but I have owned more Hondas and Suzukis than Triumph so I'm not their no1 fan or anything. Most people don't say they think their suspension is bad because they think what they have is normal not having sampled better they are non the wiser. The GS is till king of course because the sales numbers say so 👍. Cheers Joey.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff I would love to read or watch they plethora of folks complaining about the suspension. I think and agree with just about everything else. You at the fist and only person I have have read or watched complain about the suspension. Sorry… one person is not indicative of a problem.
@@JoeyPaul1 as the yoof of today say, “it is my lived experience“.
I got the gs adventure.. with the electronic suspension... man it's awesome for crunching miles.. trail braking sucks with that front suspension..
Two points to mention. 1. The quick-shifter works well when you use it properly - I see other comments mentioning how to let it do its job, it's not for changing gears to slow the motor when cruising. 2. The suspension is fine. It differs from what you may be accustomed to due to the design, but it is not as you suggest.
I beg to differ. Yes, you can get it to work better if you take your time and it can be good but it is not a patch on so many other bikes, even BMW's own XR on which it is superbly light and smooth and requires no thought. My bike requires a reasonably heavy boot on the downshift, often point blank refuses to drop out of fourth to third without a clutch. Objectively it is poor compared to what is out there. My suspension is fine in many scenarios but it is most certainly not on poor or rough tarmac roads, high speed damping is very poor compared to many other bikes I have owned. Many commenters here who have had the low chassis (LC) and the regular chassis version of the bike attribute what I am experiencing to the LC variant, stating they felt the same on their LC but not the regular setup bike. My riding buddy has a LC GSA, he hates the high speed damping too. Maybe its a geometry thing with the telelever and not the suspension? I still own the bike and it does an awful lot extremely well.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff Sure, I'm not dismissing what you are saying. I think there may be more to the situation in this case, you may have a bike that is not well put together from the factory and needs the quick-shifter reset. Here's why I'm suggesting this as a possibility.
I moved from a 2013 Triumph Tiger Explorer to a 2015 GS Triple Black. The engine and chassis made the Triumph feel slow at the bottom end, rough at the top end, and obviously, a bit top heavy. I also owned a 1200 Monster with a quick shift, and the BMW shift made the Ducati shift feel agricultural by comparison. I later swapped the 1200 Monster for an S1000XR. The S was a smoother shift and handled better, but (here's my other point) It's bound to feel better on the road because it's a road-based bike with conventional forks and an inline four-cylinder engine. The shifter will also be smoother due to that fact. Perhaps you might consider you are comparing two different purpose bikes, and that you may need to have a friend with a GS ride your bike to see if there's a problem to fix.
My 1250 and 1200 all click in and out of all gears with the quickshifter / blipper / shift assist pro. Only the upshift from 1 to 2 is not smooth enough when you’re riding slowly.
If your bike sometimes outright refuses to quickshift, I would recommend getting the dealer to fix it.
So you bought the lowered suspension version of the GS and are now complaining about the ride? Did you not bother to search the internet for comments about how the GS/GSA rode with lowered suspension? I'm on my 4th GSA, a 1250, all with standard height suspension and whilst the ride on any of them is not as plush as say, a K1600GT, its really not bad. And you missed one of the other major advantages of the BMW suspension and that is lack of dive under braking. As for the brakes themselves, being progressive is surely an advantage not a disadvantage? The brakes certainly work if you pull the lever hard enough. I will agree with you on the quickshifter. Its shit but then thats why God gave us the clutch and a hand to operate it with! As for your other complaints, you are missing out on one of the major functions of the whizz wheel by not having the BMW satnav because the whizz wheel can also control that. I find it particularly useful for zooming in and out on the screen when following a route. Apart from that the whizz wheel/button control is way simpler than on some other bikes and is all the better for that. I also have a Honda Africa Twin Adventure Sports and the controls still fry my brain after 18 months of ownership. And one last comment. The most truly amazing thing about the 1250 engine is the smooth low down torque which means it will pull at virtually any revs in any gear
Even with ~30mm lowered suspension the travel is significantly more than most road bikes, its should have no bearing on the matter. The two bikes I mention on the same bit of road have far less suspension travel, one being from 1995 and the other from 2018. The CB1100 doesn't even have manually adjustable suspension? I tend not to suffer with dive under braking and so don't find this feature as anything unusual. On a public road and If you are observing well in advance there should be no need to be continually be using your brakes in an aggressive way at all, it is just not required. That does not mean riding slowly, brakes are for stopping at junctions unless you are using the road as a public racetrack. A bike equipped with forks needn't dive at all if you use it correctly. Any bike costing as much as a GS will have adjustable damping, if you are going to brake hard at every bend it is merely a matter of increasing the damping as you would be expected to do if riding aggressively. In summary I don't place any particular value on the anti dive feature of the GS because the forks don't dive on my other bikes either? The brakes If prefer to be more aggressive If I'm honest as I only expect to be using them with gusto in an emergency. You can two finger brake with superb strength in a hurry if needed. They are better than the brakes on my Daytona 1200 and the Nissins on my CB1000 though but not by a lot. Thanks for your input and experience Mick.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff Well my Honda ATAS still dives under braking with the front suspension damping set to max so I guess it must be my riding then. I still think the lack of dive on the BMW suspension is a big plus. As for the ride I think you should have ridden the standard suspension version before damning the bike
Lowering a trail bike denatures it’s DNA. Yes it may have more suspension travel even in lowered form compared to your average roadster but it also weighs much more, it’s telelever and paralever suspension geometry makes it squat under braking or over bumps as opposed to forks compressing. The bike might by mechanically lowered but the spring rate on both shocks are the same as a non lowered bike. At the end, your short legs are penalizing the bikes natural performance.
I switched from two K16’s to a 1250GSA because it’s suspension travel is literally TWICE that of the k16. The last three years and 40000km have been like riding a magic carpet.
How is the sport suspension with its +20mm
I’m shocked at the review of the suspension. I find the suspension the best quality of my GS . It soaks up all the bumps and never gets out of shape (maybe because I’m a 10stone rider?) . Apart from that, it was a great review 👍
Thanks Rick, yes, I'm 18.5st, I think that is having some impact alright.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff After 55k km on a 2020 1250GS I am surprised about the critical suspension review. Well, I don't have the comparison to a Tiger, but the GS is not limiting me on BADLY damaged roads. I have it always on Dynamic Pro and switch it often on the left handle between Dynamic and Road. Accidently, i was 15 stones when I bought the bike and reached 9 stones a year ago. (96kg to 58) I could say the bike is a bit less mushy, but not by much. More impressive is the positive impact to the experienced power output. Less weight is making the bike nimble af. xD
Maybe I am missing something better, since I am satisfied with the existing. Thanks for your experience exchange.
Btw:
Big compliment to your review. Either you're a hell of an actor or you just simply shared your honest, direct, personal impressions. Obviously without influences of any mainstreams. 👍
@@Basalderalder Many thanks for your kind words and documenting your experiences with the GS. This was a totally unbiased review, I have no bad feelings towards the BMW brand at all and I am enjoying the many positive parts of my GS. I plan on doing a more in depth review focusing purely on the suspension to try and explain it more from my perspective and why I think it may be like this. Some comments have highlighted a few things. Take care👍.
I am 19 stone and mine is perfect suspension. He must have a faulty bike.
What the heck is a 10stone rider? Is it some kind of off road riding ?
Comments on quickshifter - Downshift with throttle closed, Upshift throttle in acceleration state. Cruising at steady state - don't get your hopes up. So in short - more use in spirited ridinng than day to day. It's a shift assistant, not an autoshifter.
Nailed it. 😊
Terence, I have watched a thousand reviews of the 1250GS, I have owned the normal height and the lowered one. This is the first review that has correctly called it out on its failings. The suspension on a bad road and the quick shifter are woeful. Thanks for your honesty.
Glad I'm not the only one, I was beginning to feel like the odd man out here. Since then a good few comments echoing mine & your thoughts too. Thanks.
Will suspension swap fix it?
I have the same inside leg 29" and have the standard height frame with a low seat. I then set the the suspension to a low setting and have no problems. As far as the quick shifter, I never use it in 1st -2nd - 3rd. It's fine to 4,5 &6. I have however had some instances when the downshifter does'nt want to play ball. No big deal. The Hill Hold took a bit of getting used to but all good now. The brakes on mine are exceptional I've always had RTs in the past but find the GS much more comfortable. Some of my previous steeds....Kawasaki 440ltd, Honda 250 superdream, Honda 750F2, K100, K1100lt, R1100rt, R1200rt and now R1250GS. This is by far the most comfortable of all.
Thanks for the detail. I like the ergos and seat, very comfy. My QS has the same issue, sometimes on the downshift I just doesn't want to change, as you say, if you allow for it it can be dealt with. I came from a Triumph Tiger 1200 and the GS hill hold is a lot better, the release is much lighter so happy with that. My brakes still just average, tried a 2023 BMW S1000XR with non Brembo brakes, they were awesome in comparison to my GS.
I had the gen 3 t1200 and then for 5000 km the rally explorer and now i am owner of the gs 1250 triple black . Gs is by far hands down the best suspension i have ridden in any bike with pillion / luggage on and off . I dont know what have you done with your bike but the telelever and paralever works ultra smooth . The centre of gravity and the way the bike handles through corners is fantastic and non comparable also with rhe tiger . Gs can be driven sporty and has more friendly feeling to curve and lean through the corner vs the rally explorer which I was really afraid to lean or drive sporty . The wind protection could be better i have to say but it can be fixed with an aftermarket windshield like wunderlich . The fit and finish is a little bit terrible and you dont expect that from bmw . I have to say terry and keep in mind that the plastics are REALLY REALLY EASY to scratch so keep in mind that ! After all , the engine is really spot on. Very smooth non vibey when touring , smoother than the triumph but when tou are idle 1000 rpm you will feel some.vibes . I personally dont mins because you feel the bike alive in the other hand the bike works very VERY smooth on highways. The gs is the best bike ever made
Thanks for your experiences Aldvex, we agree on an awful lot and that is why the handling of the bike (on a good road) was in the amazing category, it really is to be experienced. I think the tall, 21" wheel Rally Explorer from Triumph is not selling as well as the GT range as witnessed by free luggage options being offered (in the UK at least) but only on the Rally models. I think the GT & GT Pro are probably Triumph's best bet. I'm not convinced the Explorer's tank layout can compete with the GS Adventure without that boxer twin to offset it. I'm OK with the GS vibes and haven't found them intrusive at all. The engine note on the GS is addictive too. I have a two up trip planned for Europe later in the year, it will be great to see how it fares. 👍
I’ve only had my Triumph GT Pro a few days but you’re right about the suspension, it’s something you notice immediately very plush. I’ve never owned a GS but I have test ridden one, the instruments and switchgear I thought were actually better in my opinion.
I love your approach / reviews something dead honest about your delivery, and of course never a truer word spoken when you see some YTubers missing out the bigger problems. It’s clear they’re just acting like paid shills, keeping an eye on the relationship with the dealer /manufacturer so they nurture a steady stream of rides enabling them to produce content and earn revenue. Fair enough…….but it does smack at being fake and some people buy into that.
Congratulations on the GT Pro Andrew, enjoy. Yes, I’m just not convinced we get the full story from most road tests at all for the very reasons you state. You even have to be weary of overly glowing owner’s reviews as that testosterone inside us doesn’t like to admit something might not be right with our purchasing decisions 🫣😲😀.
Total agree regarding, what you said .
Love your honesty❤
Actually my quick shift works nice for anything 3rd gear plus if you know how to use it. Suspension I have no idea what you talk about.
I stick to my 22 1250GS 😂
“ QS works nice for anything 3rd gear plus if you know how to use it.” That basically is how to describe a shitty quick shifter……
There are bikes with quickshifters that work through all gears and require no special knowledge on how to operate them.
Having owned a 1250 GS, a Tiger 900 and a Tiger 1200 and currently owning a 1250 GSA, I know the difference between a good and a bad quick shifter.
I have 4 versions of gs 22-23: standard, lowered, sport suspension, and adventure. Lowered and sport suspensions are not suitable for bad roads. It works the way you are talking about. And it's really hard to ride on small old roads, especially with a pillion. Standard and adv are different.
Thanks for that concise statement Serj.
Two votes that it's the lowered suspension. I have a GSA and I don't have issues with the suspension being underdamped.
For an average rider, there is a lot of opinion about suspension. I’ve ridden my GS around Australia on some seriously bad roads and the GS took it in its stride. To say it’s “absolutely rubbish” on a comparatively smooth road is a demonstration of bias.
Consensus seems to point at my choice of the low chassis model. A lot of people who have owned both say they had the same experience. Standard Chassis no problems. :-(
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff Ah. My apologies are owed. Because the standard size works well; I hadn’t picked up on that.
SUSPENSIONS: Do you have Dynamic ESA suspension? Does the Factory Lowered Suspension degraded your damping experience? QUICK SHIFTER: BMW Quick Shifter has been designed for high rev acceleration and reductions. They should adapt the system for normal riding in the next update (1300GS)
"Does the Factory Lowered Suspension degraded your damping experience?" - I'm beginning to think this is the issue.
I used to lead the demo rides at my local Triumph dealer before they closed. I really like the Tiger and would have bought one but there is no area dealer.
Regarding your review. I'm on my second GSA. First a 2017 fully loaded and now a 2023 Triple Black GSA fully loaded. One thing to understand is this bike is not designed for those only taking on the street. Everything about this bike is designed for true adventure riding. For that reason there are specific design features you found awful that are actually superb German engineering. The rider left foot peg for example. That is NOT quality issue. That foot peg is designed to be canted that way. The purpose is to assist with shifting when wearing adventure boots and your boots are wet or muddy. It is canted on purpose in the direction of the shifter to help you find it and make it easier to shift when off-road.
Another thing is you don't really use pre-load to compensate for the wrong spring. If you are a heavier rider you really should have the bike sprung for your weight. This bike has almost 8" of travel. Over an inch more than the Tiger. But again I would not use pre-load to adjust the bike for your weight if the quality of suspension ride is important to you.
Lastly, the shift assist isn't mean to help you shift around town at low speeds. It really is meant to help you shift under heavy acceleration and at faster speeds or downshifting from faster speeds. The system is attempting to speed match. There is no reason to use it around town. It works great accelerating on the onramp to the interstate.
Enjoy your new ride...
Agreed ! !
Thank you for the detailed response Barrett. But i'll take some issue with what you have said on that preload. Yes, I get the spring could be sprung for my weight, that is exactly what I have done on my other 1200cc bike. A new rear Wilbers Shock with a custom spring rate and built with a damping range accordingly. That has it riding brilliantly and to my preference. But, this bike has an automatic rear preload, I have zero control of it so there is nothing I can do there. I am also riding solo on a bike designed with a carrying capacity of 216kg. If it rides like that with half of this weight that is not good, it should be able to cope. Other bikes on the same road do not suffer as bad as this bike in terms of high speed and low speed damping. Both my Daytona 1200 (custom rear shock) and my CB1100EX (no damping adjustment at all) provide a more controlled ride.
Quickshifters have come along way, there are so many bikes with super smooth QS's, including on other BMW bikes that shifting up and down through town is a pure joy, the change is barely perceptible to a pillion too. I cannot believe this is something BMW are not feverishly working on in the next incarnation of the bike. Every road tester brings up the QS on this bike, it is measurably poor compared to what is out there on the market. When you live in busy old Europe with our short and bendy roads the QS is a boon. One of the reasons I got rid of my 2016 Africa Twin was the heavy clutch and lack of QS after a week on the West Coast of Ireland where you were constantly changing gear. There is no need to be riding fast or at higher revs to get the most out of a QS.
You misunderstand me on the footpeg. I don't mean canted forward on its mounting axis as in making your boot pointing down, I agree that would be useful. I mean they are not perpendicular to the bike looking from the top and on the left peg only.
I do thank you for you experienced thoughts on this bike Barrett. Take care.
I have always owned GS’s and I switched to the new Tiger 1200 Rally Pro as I was getting bored with the GS. Sorry I couldn’t wait to go back to a GS. You comment a lot about the wonder wheel what about that silly toggle switch on the new Triumph? Trying to use it on the fly you have to take your eyes off the road to look at the switch to make sure your not hitting the blinker switch. Secondly don’t try using the Toggle switch while on a bumpy road that almost is impossible. The 21” front wheel on the Tiger 1200 gives you a little bit of insecurity feeling while going around bends especially when there is bumps.
Yes your review was honest but found it hard to believe it all when you were wearing a Triumph Jumper 😂😂😂
I will agree I fell out of love with 21" wheels on my Africa Twin over the winter of 2016/17 and decided I would never go back to that size. The Tiger 1200 Rally would not be for me either with its 21". The Triumph jumper was actually my mid layer, made for Triumph by "cold killers", great bit of kit. I did wear it on purpose though 😜
Owned latest Triumph Tiger 1200 pro for 2months but it was so rubbish was glad to get rid ….. now a proud owner of a proper bike BMW 1250GS Tophy👍…….. and the dealer was happy to shag the Missus on a Sunday morning so I could go out on breakfast run. Result😊
What did you not like about your Tiger 1200?!
@@richardmagnusson6419 Why so concerned about negative comments about Tiger? ……. you’re s BMW GS owner not Triumph employee
You should hear what your Missus said about yer man. If she starts suggesting you trade in your bike every week you know there's trouble ahead 😆
The missus doesn't need you dunk in the slightest😅🤣😂.
Yea, I had a GS1250 for 2 weeks, it was crap! Traded it and the missus in for a Tiger 1200, now my life is pure bliss! 👍🇬🇧
THANK GOD it’s not just me. I have ridden GSs of one king or another since 1984 (I still have my g/s). I love boxer GSs…I have my 2012 GSA which I love. I thought it’s about time I upgrade and spoil myself with a 1250 as a retirement present. Having had one for half a day I couldn’t believe how crap the suspension was. I felt like I was on a bloody trampoline in road mode so decided dynamic was the only option but boy, it that stiff over the potholes…..as for the quick shifter BMW should be ashamed of themselves charging good money for a virtually useless bit of kit. ……BMW have sold tonnes of these things and thought….surely it can’t just be me who think a great bike has been ruined by the damping. My 11 year old (non ESA) Wilbers suspensioned GSA is much better damped giving far greater control and hugely more comfortable. The current electronic set up is a joke….I was genuinely saddened that that amazing engine and chassis was sol let down and that for the first time in 39 years my main bike will not be a GS.
Phew, you are one of the few to concur, I am not the flavour of the day here as you can imagine! I have a Wilbers on my 1995 Daytona and it does a brilliant job too, chalk and cheese in the ride quality from a 28 year older bike.
Watched your video yesterday and thought about your suspension issue I think that you must have a problem bike because the two gs bikes I’ve had and got have been perfect
It’s been back to the dealer for it’s first service and given a clean bill of health. I specifically said I wasn’t impressed with the suspension and they said they were surprised and all was well with the bike.
I have owned tons of spirts bikes and nakeds all engine types and the gsai own now is by a country mile the very best. I have owned 2 hexhead 1200rt bimes and an xr the r bikes are the only bikes i have ever owned that were cimfy out of tbe box. Needing very few alterations
This video is a good example, why one should form an own opinion. The screen adjustment is overly complex? You cannot adjust at the screen at 120 kph? This is a plain lie. Its totally possible and not a problem. Did you ever ride a KTM or Africa Twin for example? There you have complex mechanisms with screws and what not. I don´t have any issues with the screen. No noise, no wind tubulence.
This video was my experience, I purchased the bike, it is not a demo. My screen would not adjust at 120kph, that is a fact, why would I lie? If I slow down it adjusts. It is also considerably noisier than my last bike but this is quite common on a lot of bikes until you find one that suits your frame. Yes, I owned an Africa Twin, 2016 where the screen does not adjust, I mention it in the video? Many bikes now though do have a much simpler screen adjust mechanism, it is just my point of view, you can form your own opinions.
I would disagree with a few of your findings.
First off, you want a front brake that grabs with the slightest input? That would be a dangerous situation for especially inexperienced riders. A caliper that works with a more progressive pull to stop gives you actually better control, especially in trail braking.
As far as suspension is concerned, remember, you have a modified suspension motorcycle that the little people can ride.
You have less suspension travel and also less ground clearance. This is an ADV bike, not a Goldwing. Don't expect it to ride like one.
I respectfully disagree on the brake performance, this isn’t a bike for the novice and most owners will have a good few years under their belt. The action on a better braked bike with a light two fingered touch is very relaxed because the action requires no effort. I agree it is no Goldwing and is not expected to be so, that bike whilst I admire it, is not my cup of tea either. Whilst I do have the shortened suspension version, by 30mm, this bike has significantly more suspension travel than most road bikes and much more than two of my other 1000cc plus road bikes to which I compared the ride. They were both much more well behaved with this test road. I plan to make a video focusing on the suspension some more to try and explain my rationale. Thanks for your comment 👍.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff It was a good review in all honesty. I ride a 2020 GSA HP and love this bike. Definitely not perfect but pretty damn close IMO. Especially after riding my Harley lol.
I think BMW should have done a little more refining of the GS such as backlit switches, a more precise suspension setting that would truly match the riders preference before increasing the engine displacement which I feel is just to keep up with the Jones's.
Keep up the good work Terence
I’m guessing the root of the “suspension hatred” is the lowered chassis version you’re riding. Or personal bias.
This seems to be the overwhelming consensus by those that have owned the low and the regular chassis.
Nice, accurate and honest review, well done!! Ive had 6 GS's/GSA's sine 2006 and have never gone off road, thats why I'e just taken delivery of a 2023 1250 RS SE in my opinion a far better road bike. lower, quicker ( i don't know why but it is) has all the same tech and because it has 17in wheels a better selection of tyres.
Cheers you Grumpy Old Git! Whenever a 2nd hand RS comes on the market round here it gets snapped up, quite unique on the road and terribly good looking. Enjoy.
i changed from a 2018 R1200RS to a 2022 R1250GSA. You are right, the RS is a really good and fast bike, but the GSA fit my needs better (and my back).
Is it possible that the normal height version would perform better than the lower chassis version?
This is becoming the common answer from those who have owned both TacNipples.
Your the first person that has been honest about the suspension on the GS. I appreciate that!!
Thank you for that. Yes, I love many of the bike’s great attributes but unfortunately suspension isn’t one of them😬.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff your welcome 🙏. Another thing you mentioned was the pegs. I was already aware of the cylinders not lining up. But the foot pegs to?! That might drive me nuts 😆. I'll have to test ride one to see
3 years ago I have sold my F850GS for many reasons you mentioned here too. I am shocked 2023 R1250GS is still suffering from so many poor engineering solutions. I absolutely hated level of menus and buttons interface, the crapy navigation and forcing me to buy Gamin from BMW. Connectivity? Poorest ever and not stable (forgetting devices constantly).
I was recently considering getting back to GS (from my Husky 701 Enduro, with amazing WP XPLOR suspension by the way) but your video made me want to wait for R1300GS and _your_ review of the suspension, connectivity and user interface (button functions) after a test drive.
Thanks for making this video, very informative. Respect.
I’m glad it served a purpose. Yes, I think the wait for a much needed update would be worth it. Not sure I’d want to be first out the block on the new 1300 purchase though. Every manufacturer is going to have first release problems that will take 18 months or so to sort out. No doubt it will sell very well though. Thanks for watching. 👍
Probably the best review out there. Have some differences, such as the fact I think the the whizzwheel works well, and you do indeed get use to it, as you do a joystick that sits too close to the indicators (triumph!). Also, I find the brakes excellent - much prefer the feel of these brembos over the hayes. Screen, well you either like a short screen and are happy with the trade off, or you aren't and don't. I think these aspects are neutral and depend on rider preferences.
Quickshifter, has to be used at the right revs - it's a big boxer that you are changing gear on, not a triple!
On suspension, for some reason, they seem to have set up the non-dynamic softer on this compared to the GS1200, and I really don't know why. It isn't good, though I haven't found dynamic much of an issue. But the lack of settings is a real drawback no question.
Praise be that you haven't moaned about the Honda drl indicators or the 'unsafe' rear indicators, the latter being the latest modding fad being pushed by the aftermarket guys and without able being to provide a scenario in which they are unsafe.
Yes, the aftermarket are doing a roaring trade on indicator systems aren't they! I had always on front indicators on my Africa Twin, loved them. Thanks for your feedback on the other points, agree completely. It is becoming very apparent, from other posts that the low chassis version of the bike is probably the issue with the suspension characteristics I complain of. Those that have owned both styles have no such problem on the standard height bike but did on the lowered too. Cheers samsara
Road GS's from 80's to now. Also other makes and models. Had over 200,000 miles on BMW etc. Tried my friends DR650 for a week since he needed me to do some simple maintenance. ( and had to go out of town) ... guess what... The GS is up for sale! If BMW would ever produce a 750 CC boxer twin in the 360 pound range with simple carbs, and CDI ignition... I would consider it and so would others!
I know the feeling David. A buddy lent me his Aprilia Tuareg 660 (204kg fully fueled) for a week and I had an absolute blast on it. My favorite part was the manually adjustable suspension. Took me about 50-70km to suss it out to what worked best for me and wow what a bike. Need ear plugs though, that induction roar gets old real quick! :-)
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff YES indeed! Sad that BMW has gone the wrong direction.
I have a 22 Rallye lowered edition.
The handling is why I bought the machine, lower center of gravity. Justin road mode it is springy but absolutely floats down the road like a Cadillac. If that bothers you then go to another mode. Yes electronic sucks because you don't know how to adjust it but most people don't know how to adjust their suspension anyway. Concerning the quickshifter going up is just a hoot. Pin it and bang the gears up yes going down it does not want to and the dealership said that. If that little bit makes you get a 1300 more power to you
I'd get the S1000XR over the GS after a test ride, the QS is sublime on that. I will have to stick with my choice for now though, trading so early will see me lose my shirt! I do ride in Dynamic suspension bias now and Enduro for the rougher roads even though they are not "off-road" lanes, that made a big difference.
I thought that was a great video, Terry. It's good to see the GS subjected to such scrutiny. My two cents, having had the full-height suspension 2018 and a reduced-height 2019 is that the full-height is much better on a bumpy road. Unfortunately that means the bike works best for the taller rider. Because of this and the difficulty I found with heaving it around while parking etc, I no-longer have one, preferring the R (which still has its own issues; too harsh in dynamic and too under-damped in Road). Overall, you're dead right in your observations and BMW need to sort out their suspension damping, quick-shift (on the R-series) and put the thing in a wind-tunnel to control wind noise. Apart from that, it's a brilliant bike and I'm looking forward to seeing what they have done with the forthcoming R1300.
Thanks for the feedback re the two different chassis styles Julian. After most of the comments I was wondering if I was a) exaggerating it or b) imagining it? Given the competition from others, KTM, Triumph, Ducati etc I can't believe they will run with this system on the next bike. I will be in line for that test ride. I wonder if the difference between a GS1300 & GS1400 will be conventional forks and a different suspension setup?
I’ve loved the suspension on my 2016 GSA model. You have to figure out what rider set up (1,1+luggage,2 rider), then your rider mode, then your suspension setting. I think you’ve missed using some adjustability options on your bike because all those options are in the new 1250 models.
No, these are not options. That was the older way of customizing the suspension. Now the rear preload is automatically measured and adjusted, that works perfectly. It is the two road modes you have for damping that are the limiting factor. I get it is continually trying to optimise the damping and in "Dynamic" it does create a sharp bike for handling purposes but with poor high speed damping. In the "Road" bias damping it is like riding on waves.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff you can still opt to have it set the preload in any riding mode. Press and hold the suspension button, once the suspension settings appear, press and hold the button again until it changes from auto to either min or max - this is the new version of 1 or 2 rider set up.
@@geoloseth Hi Seth, many thanks for this info, but I do feel you are mistaken. The Auto Preload is setting the preload based on the measured SAG from the swingarm position sensor on the left hand side of the bike under that small plastic cover. Whether it is a single rider, rider plus passenger or rider/passenger/luggage it is measuring the SAG under that weight and applying the appropriate preload to compensate. It is a closed loop system requiring no human input. They have been doing this on the Triumph Tiger 1200's for many years now. This replaces that open loop manual selection process that you have where it is you making the decision about your load and applying the appropriate preload to compensate. Separately from that I do know about the min and max preload option on the switchgear you mention which affects the preload amount, hence the ride height. This is something different, not related to load and the manual suggest the low setting for convenience and the higher setting for extra ground clearance that you may want when off-road.
My R1250GS has Wilburs installed. They work with the ESA setup. On Dynamic it works very well. Not harsh like you are describing. On Road in Road mode, it is floaty but with the suspension in Road mode and Dynamic Pro riding mode chosen it is quite good. I see you had the bike in Road mode and Road suspension...yes way underdamped, but I never ride in Road mode and have found much of these issues go away when choosing Dynamic pro as suspension settings are quite different in all the riding modes. One big advantage of changing to Wilburs is it also has the standard clicker adjustments for damping as well to fine tune the electronic choices. Also, it was built for my weight and is much higher quality suspension and not really that expensive. My 2 cents.
Thanks for the comprehensive detail. I like Wilbers as a brand and have a Wilbers custom monoshock on my Daytona 1200 and absolutely love it. I do ride with the suspension in Dynamic 95% of the time now and only switch to road damping in town where there are a lot of speed bumps etc. I tend to switch to Dynamic on the suspension bias button and leave the rider mode in road, that way I get to keep full traction/ABS and have that better performing damping. I have been on to the Wilbers agent here and it doesn't look like they have a solution for the low chassis GS. They do a lowered suspension kit for the regular bike and same height replacement suspension for the regular bike but nothing for the factory lowered as far as I can tell and enquired about. Cheers
This is why I love owner reviews. An excellent, honest, and at times funny review. I'm considering a move from an MT10 to something more upright and sensible. Certainly food for thought here.
Glad it added to the info gathering. The new GS must be so close I think I would bypass this one for now and see what comes of the new bike. But there will be a pile of the 1250's up for sale at bargain prices once the 1300 gets released. Cheers Banditmanuk 👍
Enduro mode will do what you need on this roads and that works amazing well
some others have stated the same.
I have an R1250RS. I'm going to disagree a bit about the quick shifter, but you have to get a feel for it. First, yes, it breaks in a bit. Next, the owner's manual does give some specific and spot on instructions. You have to be on the throttle to upshift and you have to have the throttle closed to downshift. So, if I'm at a steady throttle but want to upshift, I just goose the throttle a bit and it's reasonably smooth.
As for the suspension, at least on the RS, the damping is not tied to the rider mode. You can set the mode to road or rain and have the damping set to dynamic. I don't know if the GS is similar or not.
You can set the damping to dynamic or road independent of the rider modes yes. I have used quick shifters for years on the Triumph and yes they are all better on the up shift on acceleration and off throttle downshift but this bike is particularly bad. It will often flat refuse to drop from 4th to 3rd at all even on zero throttle. It’s not completely hopeless but it is very bad, I shan’t be using it. Thanks for the tips Paul.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff I might have gotten lucky on my particular bike, or it's now broken in. That said, it's the only quick shifter I've used so I can't really judge.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff Mine shifts easily from 4th to 3rd. No issues. Take that in to BMW for them to look at. Sounds like something is wrong if it is that repeatable.
My '22 GSA has a great suspension when taxed. I have no complaints at all except back lit switches. Power is great, carries a load really well and on a 500 mile day it doesn't wear me out. When I bought mine, I ditched the heated seat, the LED light and the quick shifter. All of this was way more expensive than they are worth. I guess I do have one complaint. I only get 38-40 miles per gallon and that happens if I cruise at over 75 mph. Wish that was better. Great video, thank you. But I can not see changing to the new GSA. To me, it isn't "better", just different.................... And advice ???? ......... Buy a Zumo XT. Best aftermarket investment ever !!!!!!! 🙂
I like the ZUMO XT, probably the best out there but got to wait for my Tom Tom Rider 550 to expire :-) Yes, long days are easy on the GS and I now use the "Enduro" suspension mode a lot more which copes with poor roads much better than any of the other two damping modes. Same for me on the Motorway, MPG plummets :-(
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff I tried "Enduro" and so far you are right !!!!!! It does do a much better job over a broader range of conditions. 🙂
@@TheAmerican1963 Excellent. Just be careful in the wet as traction and ABS are dialled down a bit.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff will do !!!!! Thanks for the advice !!!! 🙂
Traded my Ktm 890 adventure in for a r1250gs , previously lve always had naked/sports bikes, all l can say is l ride the gs harder and faster than any other bike I’ve own. I was worried about the so called lack of feel from the tele-lever front suspension but l find it gives great feedback, certainly agree with the quick shifter comments great up shifting but down shifts are hit and miss.
You can ride this bike hard and as you say, fast. Dynamically it is wonderful and i 100% acknowledge that. It is looking like the low chassis version of this bike is the culprit from owners who have had both versions.
I was in the market for a substitution for my 2017 Tiger Explorer 2017 and I did a quite long test rider on a 2023 R1250 GSA. I completely agree with you about the quick shifter and the suspension. The quick shifter was not a surprise (it just don't work properly), but I was surprised with the suspension. Every video I see states that the suspension is magnificent. But compared with the Tiger, it is really strange. I felt disconnected from the road and the dumping was either too soft or too hard. On a brick road, it was quite off, doesn't matter what I set. With the Tiger Explorer, I can set the proper damping for a given surface, on the fly and quite easily. I am just glad that I found someone else that thinks the same. I thought I was the only crazy one out there. 😂😂😂😂
The trouble is we were spoilt by the nine damping levels on offer from the Tiger and the complete control we had over it. You might still be crazy though 😄.
Thanks for making this eye opening video! Where I ride, there are no roads. This really put things in perspective for me when it comes to my next purchase.
Glad it was of some insight. If you have no roads you will definitely benefit from a bike with much more suspension control and adjustment.
Weird to hear about the damping. On my 2013 R1200GSA I can set the damping separately from soft to normal to hard, independent of the riding modes. Works perfectly, just like the quickshifter which I find amazing.
You can do that on the 2023 but just Dynamic and Road (in the road modes).
I agree with the damping, Dynamic is way too jerky for bad roads, Road is way too soft and flowy. When I'm riding with a passenger, I usually set it to Road just to not upset them, and ride much slower than I normally would.
As for the quickshifter, the way I'm using it is 1-2-3 I clutch, above 3 I use the QS. I also almost always use the QS going down even to 1st, it does a good job with that.
What I found is when I took it to a track, the quickshifter is a blessing, and works wonderfully in every gear. I think since it works on the principle of cutting the ignition, in higher revs there is a finer amount of control, as there are more ignition cycles in any given period of time. No wonder it's a "race inspired" technology, and fittingly, it works best in that context.
Thanks for the insight and your experience with the quick-shifter, makes complete sense. 👍. I'm glad your experience the ride as I do, lots of people don't believe it!
great review Terry. I am from NSW Australia were we pride ourselves on having the worst roads in AU. I bought my 2nd hand 2020 GS after owning a '14 Ducati 1200 Pikes Peak Multistrada. The suspension was way better on the Ducati but otherwise the GS is I believe a better bike so much so that i went and spent $5K on new Tractive TT Experience suspension. WOW. After a few 1000km of bedding in the bike has now great suspension that compliments the great chassis and weight distribution. If you own a GS and plan on keeping it for a while bite the somewhat $bitter$ bullet and buy the Tractive. It is the same suspension that is rebranded by Touratech (+$1K) but it is really good stuff. Yeah QS is crap though
Hi Gregory, cheers for the info, I shall look them up. Great to get first hand knowledge of a user.
A good and interesting review that I would agree with to 95%. Being on the shorter side (torso) than Terence, I don't have any issues with the screen, but regarding the suspension I think he's spot on. I came from a Triumph 1200 (2017) which had fantastic suspension (W.P.) and I couldn't believe how poor the GS suspension is by comparison. On the GS I have the suspension either on "Dyna" which I use most of the time and is quite firm or "Rain" for country lanes which is very compliant if not slightly wallowy. I never use "Road" because it's neither one thing or another. But the suspension comments made by Terence made me realise how I have eventually become used to the BMW suspension.
A awful lot of comments from owners are putting this down to the fact that it is the low chassis version of the bike. Many owners have had both and the standard version is totally different apparently. It is pretty much 100% Dynamic for me too, I get seasick otherwise.
Great vid Terry. Was thinking about selling my 2020 Tiger 1200 Desert and getting a GS but as you said I love the suspension and ride on my Tiger. You may have kept me from making a mistake. Think I’ll wait to see what the 1300 GS will be like. Thanks!
I think that is a wise choice, keeping the WP suspension of the Desert Edition compared to this silly ZF system. The GS has a draw, I cannot deny sales figures but when you have had better suspension you don't want to go backwards. Cheers Bob.
I have the first Triumph 1200 GT Explorer in the states from 7/22- middle January 2023. NEVER looking back. The new Showa suspension kills the 2020 1200 XCX I traded for the new one. Choose wisely...
@@ttrguy9952 do you have the 1200 Rally? If so, any issues so far? That’s another option I’ve been contemplating.
@@bobholley6202 No, I have the GT Explorer like I stated. Zero issues and I love the bike!👍👍
The Rally versions are tall and here in New England we don't have the off road terrain.
@@ttrguy9952 good deal. I live just south of the Appalachian Mountains in Georgia. Great twisties and a lot of off road gravel and dirt roads open on the national forests. Great to hear no issues. I’m pretty tall so I was thinking about the rally.
Great review. 2019 was the first year of the 1250. I have one an have put 40,000 miles on it. It’s an amazing bike, never ridden a Triumph. The torque it has and when it wheelies make me giggle. Quick shifter works smoother in the higher gears and when you’re ripping it. I don’t know much about suspensions but I will say the bike is a little “stiff” and doesn’t absorb the bumps as I’d like. It’s better when loaded down.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Good to know on the loading, I have a two up trip planned for the Dolomites later on in the year.
Fall 2018 was the first year of the 1250. Just for info.
As a 2019 model.@@chrisvodka2412
I just did a test ride on a gs1250te felt great. 1st time on a GS. Didn't have time to really test the suspension and I was on good roads. I was really impressed with the quick shifter though. I thought it was silky smooth.. great review. Top stuff. 👍
Glad you got on with it. I think a lot of owners will stick with the GS a little longer rather than rushing to the new 1300, it is quite a departure.
I have a R1200RT and it’s an amazing bike. I have ridden the BMW is all kinds of weather and never had an issue. My RT does have hard, medium and soft suspension settings
Great looking bike the RT. I did try the ergos but it was a little too tight on the hips for me with the shorter seat to peg relationship. But I do have a dodgy left hip so that is my fault. Great that you have the more flexible control over your damping.
I test rode a 2020 GS and just didn’t like the bike. I thought the engine sounded a bit agricultural and I thought, as you do, the brakes weren’t brilliant. Also like yourself I found the latest Tigers a little tall, so I ended up getting a 2020 Gen3 Tiger 1200 Alpine with with only 2067 miles on it. I also had the lower seat the lower seat fitted, just to give me a little more confidence handling the weight at standstill. I think Triumph missed a trick not adding a low chassis version to the latest model range. Hope you come to terms with your new bike’s nuances and grow to love it.
I'll have to get used to it! 😃 The Alpine edition is probably the best value Gen 3 Tiger out there, congrats, enjoy.
Interesting review. The service pack is so much cheaper than in Switzerland. We need to pay 2300chf for 5 years option.
Thank you. Oh wow, that is significantly higher, the equivalent of €2384 😲.
Gosh… I just ordered this bike as an upgrade from my F700GS but after seeing this video I think I might cancel and try something else! I guess you’re about to sell yours too by the tone of this video, which was brutally honest but entertaining. Wouldn’t be surprised if you have already moved back to another Triumph! Cheers!
No, Triumph too tall for me! There are positive aspects about the bike but the bank owns a lot of it so I'll have to hang on a lot longer! It is becoming apparent that this is the nature of the low chassis version, the standard chassis is much better according to owners who have had both.
I couldn't afford one of these. I bought a well used 1200. I really like it. I ride on shite roads. and I ride it of road.
Maybe I just don't know any better. I've never ridded the Wicklow Mts. I did ride it over the Brooks Range.
General consensus among owners who have had both the low chassis and regular chassis versions is that the low chassis one makes some compromises on suspension and they find the two bikes quite different. It's only on certain roads and I have adjusted my riding style to suit more and use enduro mode up the Wicklow Mountains now which makes a good improvement. Cheers John.
What lovely scenery, a brilliant looking route. David and I are planning on doing this in June, we will do it over 2 days so that we can visit lots of coffee establishments and “goo steady” (fen talk) safe riding and keep the vids coming.
Excellent, enjoy the trip. Be sure to include the Glendalough Green Cafe in the Wicklow Mountains for a coffee and cake stop (or a salad lunch), always a few bikes parked up there. Goo Steady!
😂 Coming from the gen 3 Tiger with its super smooth quick shifter to the somewhat agricultural GS version I agree. Although I’ve found that under load i.e hammering up the revs, it works better and eventually you get used to it.
It does work better at higher revs but I do still find the gear lever requires some force. I have pretty much reverted to the clutch the whole time now as it does make the gear lever just click in lightly for me. Cheers for posting your experience Mark.
The quick shifter really isn't meant to be used around town. It wants you to bang through the gears at full throttle, it feels a bit stiff even then but it's a lot better.
I have a 22 R1250GS. I agree with most of your opinions. I will add these comments though: The quick shifter is useful when putting the power down and at higher revs for upshifting. Then it works as expected. Downshifting there are a lot of safeguards to protect from locking up the rear. Can't have throttle on, maybe a lean angle restriction. I use the clutch when upshifting at relaxed RPMs and I use the clutch when down shifting when turns are in the mix. It is usually too aggressive to use when shifting from 1st to 2nd. I don't have any problem with the brakes. They have more than enough power for me. There are safety overrides that do affect things, but in a straight line and hard on the brakes they will use every bit of tire to stop me pretty quick. I've never tried a tiger though. I agree with your impression of the whizzy wheel, its rubbish. I agree on the suspension too. It's either too hard or too soft. It needs a few middle damping modes. Thanks for the video!
Yes, I think you have the Quick-Shifter described to a tee, it's high revs for me all the way now if I am going to use it. Given up on it completely 4th to 3rd as it is problematic for me in totally random way, it will often work well then other times totally refuse to budge at all, this may improve as the gearbox wears in a little. The brakes do stop quick with power from you hand. It is just the striking difference for me that the Tiger could apply huge braking power with a very easy light two finger touch to the lever, it makes for relaxed riding. I have exercised the ABS front and rear many times, on purpose, to get the full feel of the bike and I will say it is very controllable with the ABS cutting in considering the blocky Anakee Adventure tyres it comes equipped with (which I like). Thanks for leaving your comments.
We rode this bike on Indian roads a few months back and the bike was completely out of order. Same roads we did also on the africa twin and a tiger 900 Rally, no problems. But the 1250GS felt absolute shite on those bouncy roads. Thanks for pointing out the poor suspension.
Glad you can corroborate my experience.
I’ve just bought the same bike , I agree the suspension isn’t the best around, it’s better than what your saying.
If you put any suspension to a ‘sport’ setting on shit roads they’ll all jolt your fillings out.
No bike is perfect, but for the price of these a few more settings on damping would or should be on the bike.
This is my 12th GS, so I’ve had enough to experience the ESA over the last 15 years. From 2008 until now.
I’ve had five Multistrada’s and their standard nor Skyhook suspension isn’t as good as they say either.
Thanks for noting your long term experiences Peter, appreciated. The trouble with knocking it out of sport on those roads is that you end up bouncing along it the whole way round. I am a heavy person and my weight has to play a role but if this system was truly intelligent it should know that.
Great Review. I Ride a 2006 R1200GS and absolutely Love it. You have to set the Damping and Rebound Manually but it works Perfect and is easy to do. I don’t have any Modes and that’s fine with me. I just jump on the Bike and Ride. The Owners Manual has suggestions for the Suspension Settings depending on what kind of Riding you’re doing and the Load you’re Carrying, and they seem to be right on Point. The Engine is a Dream, and I do all my Maintenance myself. I have No Complaints whatsoever. Thanks for the Video, I subscribed. Big Howdy from Texas.👍👍
Cheers joeybobbie1. Yes, my 1200 Daytona is completely manual too and I can adjust it manually very easily if I need to and with great effect like yourself. There is something to be said for less electronics.
Being a simpleton rider with very little cash and getting old I bought a 1200 gs The best bike I have ever riden put to one side all the gismos that you so well reviwed It is so well balanced as a bike I feel like I could almost do anything on this bike that a sports bike could do but in comfort I have been riding since 1969 and trust me riden all sorts Triumph are all top heavy so if short in the leg as I am very very unstable
when at a standstill or in slow motion or even on bends for that matter !!! The B.M.W you can ride at a snails pace with both feet off the ground then we come to tourq and ease of servicing also no water on the older bikes I stil have 4 bikes and if I had to keep just one the
B.M.W. would be the one!!!! I honestly wish it were not the case but it is 110% every day of the week.... My Triumph is going to another owner as much as I love the triple soind it is going !!
That low centre of gravity is something to experience at high and low speed as you say Allan, it does make the bike a joy to ride on good roads. That side to side handlebar movement in traffic is a non experience on the GS which is a boon.
Also you may try to bring this bike to bmw and ask them to flash latest software and do suspension calibration. This helps sometimes
I am not sure what’s going on with your bike. I believe it’s you! I love the suspension on my 23 GS and I love the quick shifter. I ride the bike off road as well and have only complements about the suspension.
37:41
Everything is pointing to the fact I have the low chassis version.
The non low chassis suspension is much better with the extra travel.
This is becoming a very common answer from a lot of posters, cheers West Coast Fresh.
Congrats on a very detailed and insightful review. Can’t say I agreed with some of your inputs but great respect for your intelligent video.
I’ve had five GS’s and now have a wonderful RS and RnineT. Love Boxers!
Thanks for watching and the kind words 👍.
Haha there be foaming at the mouth tonight 🤣🤣🤣Nice honest review.
Cheers Bleary View 👍😀. Yeh, I’m not going to be popular 😬.
Watching this video, I am so glad that I had the opportunity to ride my BMWR90S and BMWR80GS bikes for 20 and 15 years respectively. I did all my own servicing and repairs on both bikes. Them were t'days?
I rode an R90S through London eons ago, it was my brothers, what a bike yes.
Use Speakon connectors for power. They are heavy duty and twist lock into place. Heated gloves & vests have their own pull-outs so you won’t be tied to the bike.
I shall look them up.
I agree with you about the suspension 100% On road mode it is too bouncy and on dynamic it is harsh. If the road is good and a sudden bump comes along, it shatters my teeth. I don't think it is caused by the rider weight as I weigh 11 stones compared to your 18.5
Thanks for the feedback on the weight sharagan, very interesting
A very full and personal view of the 1250GS. I listen to your criticism of the bike but have to ask why then why does it continue to be one of the top selling bikes? The new 1300 is going to be an amazing improvement but the 1250 remains so many rider’s choice. Just think you have been overly critical. But as they say. “Opinions are like noses, everyone has one”
Yes, I guess opinions are based on where you have come from too. Had I got on this bike from a Suzuki SV650 I would be marvelling. But I came from a Tiger 1200 with WP suspension and nine levels of user damping in every rider mode. Moving to a bike with limited user suspension control and poor high speed damping (which by its very nature only effects a rider on certain types of roads) took me aback. It is good to see the new 1300 has a lot more input from the user when it comes to damping. I still have the bike, it still has many positive attributes that I like. Cheers jcc6664
In many points I agree.
Not with the experience of the suspension.
It might be, that with the lowered bike the suspension sucks. But in a standard height it absolutely perfect, from fast twisties to bad backroads.
I bought a 2022 GSAdventure. Fully, but fully equiped.
I think you missed one very important point.
The Telelevertunnel.
The noise which comes from the front wheel (esp. with the Brigdeston A41) is nervwracking. You just cannot enjoy rides between 40 and 80 km/h.
I change at the first service to Conti, which makes it a little better, but far from good.
The main reason I sold this bike with 4.000 km after 4 months.
I wait for the new model and will give the (at least its called so) Quickshifter and the noises a last try.
Because, line you said, the ergonomics, weight distribution and engine character are top-class.
Thanks for your experience Thomas. I have read a lot about the front tyre noise but it is not too bad on my bike which is equipped with Anakee Adventure Tyres. It does have a weird noise from both tyres (i think) at high speed on the motorway though. The Tiger was terrible from nearly new with the Metzeler Tourance Next tyres, the drone through the front tunnel would drive you too distraction and a headache. Weirdly I fitted A41's and they were much better? Yes, I think the lowered suspension is the culprit, lots of owners of both saying so from their experience.
Love my Tiger 1200 Alpine SE Terry, delicious suspension and I can push the front end into oblivion with no worries, W.P at it's best, great honest video mate, well done!
Cheers Andrew, WP is brilliant stuff and KTM owned of course. 👍
I know exactly what you are talking about concerning the dampening, and have recently demoed a GS low suspension and a standard height GSA. The standard height GSA dampening seemed quit good in either setting, but the low suspension GS dampening was either sponge soft or brick stiff. I currently own a 2016 Explorer 1200 XRT, the dampening settings are vast and you can easily adjust on the fly. I agree the engine layout and chassis has carried the GS for years, I was shocked how damn good the low speed handling of the GS is, but the dampening of the low suspension version needs a rework. Not sure but since it is electronic makes me wonder if an update to the electronics could solve the issue.
I ride my Explorer with suspension in rider mode with suspension in off road mode to get the height down and everything else in road mode and get by. My concern with the Explorer is it’s top heavy and tip in in the corners is to fast for my liking. I’m thinking about lowering the bike to see if that helps.
I went with the lust racing 20mm lowering kit on my 2018, you then raise the forks by 15mm should be the same for your 2016. They do a 40mm kit too. The trouble with the off road mode and lowering the rear only is that you are altering the geometry. Try dropping the forks 10-12mm (or 70-75%) of what you think the rear is dropping by in the off-road setting. That should mitigate that quick tip in. Best of luck.
I have friends that ride the BMW for the police department and I cruise with two friends that have the 1200 GS so I’ve ridden them, and I like my V Strom 650 much better for suspension and comfort. He just doesn’t have the frills or the horsepower.
I just spent a week on an Aprilia Tuareg 660 (with 240mm of suspension travel), utterly brilliant ride and totally customisable. I would trade down if I didn't have more two up work to do! V-Sroms are brilliant, especially the 650.
I have the seat in the lowest position. I used to be 6’ tall. I’ve shrunk over the years but my inseam is still 32”. My only complaint is it’s just a tad too tall. Thought about the low version but I’ve heard too many stories that it rides rough and you lose some clearance. I’m on the balls of my feet but just wish it was 2-3” lower. I dropped my brand new bike the night I bought it,🤣🤣. 2023 GSA triple black. Crash bars work! No damage. Just a scratch or two on the crash bars. Can barely see them. Will touch them up soon.
Ouch! My Tiger 1200 with its top heaviness went over 3 times too, lost footing on gravel a couple of times and the other time I thought I had the sidestand down :-( Try the low seat from BMW or maybe the Wunderlich low version. I have gone back to using it all the time now and find it comfortable now I am used to it.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff I bought the BMW low seat and it helps but there’s not too much you can do if all you can do is flat foot it. Raise your leg outwards just a bit and you’ve lost footing. My Harley, I can flat foot it with my legs/knees bent a good bit so I can step outwards and still be flat footing it. Easier to keep the bike upright. With the GSA, it’s just gonna be a learning curve to deal with it. I dropped it again the other day coming into the driveway and it’s at a steep angle and a sudden stop or I hit the garage door. I lost momentum and the bike fell.
I have a 2019 R1250GS Adventure covering all types of terrain & I’m really impressed with suspension, no issues whatsoever. Also the quick shifter is smooth. Perhaps yours needs calibrating?
Great honest review and quite refreshing compared to most of the vlogers, These bikes now are alot of money-no longer is it the cheaper mode of transport. I just sold my ducati multistrada 1260s and have been considering a 22 model, definetly food for thought, especially at £18k +
Thanks Jake. Just on the suspension, If you can go the standard chassis version these are much better according to those that have owned both. This looks like it might just be a feature of the low chassis version. It is a lot to pay for a bike though yes, I would say you were spoilt with the 1260, nice.
Love the no punches pulled review. Wish others would do the same. That said, I am on my 2nd GS (2022 GSA) - previous was 2015 GS. I did test ride the 2022 Tiger 1200 on the same day as test riding the GSA. Coming from another GS (with an even shittier Quick Shifter and gearbox) I was swayed by the GSA with refined improvements over engine, gearbox, Quick Shifter and suspension (even my pillions say how wonderful the new bike suspension is - even on not so good roads) over what I was used to. But also, my niggles with the Tiger were: hard to hear engine exhaust note, snatchy throttle (on a gauge of 0 - 10 it felt like it picked up at 3 - dealer said all new Tigers like that), foot peg position too far back, less comfortable riding position, and the creme de la creme was the really poor dealership experience!! To the experience - had to wait for 10 mins into test ride window to get helped. Eventually, got on the road and something did not feel right with gear changes. Stopped for fuel and noticed the gear change level was bent in towards the bike and rubbing on the frame/engine. Took the bike back. Wasted another 20 mins while they 'sorted it out', and then found out I needed to bring the bike back 15 mins earlier so they could check it over before the next test rider. No apologies or anything. I did get offered a tiny bottle of water. At BMW ... complete opposite. Have it an extra hour they said, free coffee/tea/hot chocolate and biscuits. Of course, I used the same dealer for my previous purchase and services and all have been very good with loan bikes. I guess it comes down to personal experience and preference as we all have our own tastes.
And doesn't it go to show how a dealer can balls up a sale! When I bought my Tiger 1200 back in late 2017 I had just left the local BMW dealer appalled at the attitude of the service manager. I cancelled my test ride and bought the Tiger the same day. The BMW salesman was fine, I got on well with him when inquiring about the bike. The other thing many Triumph dealers don't do is reset the bike to factory conditions. It is very common for riders to leave the dealer with the suspension damping set all over the place rather than its default level as the previous riders altered it. The throttle condition on the Tiger has been fixed now I believe with a software update. It was the flexible ergos that completely sealed the deal for me, Triumph could not compete on that front at all. Cheers Jay, thanks for a great story of how not to sell a bike!
There was also a software update recall for the quick shifter that I’ve heard helps it out tremendously.
I'm up to date on that. It has loosened up and got better but struggles on the downshift still between 5 to 4 and 4 to 3 particularly. It takes a heavy boot and often point blank refuses to shift requiring the clutch. Rode an S1000XR not to long ago, the QS was sublime.
You are mistaken about the mirrors.. they are superb ! You don’t need larger ones, these work well.
You always do a great job on your videos. However, it is sad to hear you say “outgoing triumph”. I have the Tiger Alpine version which is essentially the same as your GEN three tiger. I’ve saved some of your videos as they help me maintain my triumph. I’ll miss you doing Tiger videos. Stay safe.
Very kind of you to say so Dan 👍. The Alpine is the best value Gen 3 ever and you can take solace from the fact that you have wonderful suspension. Take care Dan 👍.
Me too - I also have a Tiger Alpine and I got tonnes of useful information and insight before I bought it from your videos.
First watch of your vids, I'll be watching some more. I found it a very objective and one of the better (honest) reviews out there and I can't disagree with too much of what you said. I'm 65, 1.7m, 813mm inside leg and 85kg and haven't really found the suspension to be an issue on my 2018 R1200 GS TE Exclusive apart from some some really crap roads in Belgium last year when my spine was dialled into the road!! Particularly agree with your comments on plotting routes and addresses into the TFT via BWM Connect on my iPhone 12. I use the Connect Cradle which is an excellent bit of kit and found a workaround was to cut & paste the address/location from Google Maps into the BMW app, works 9/10. Cheers!
Thanks for the great idea on the Nav units Andrew 👍. I'm glad you mention the pounding on your back too, many others are just telling me I am plain wrong 🤷♂but it is my truthful opinion and my experience. I did try and balance my statements and accentuate the positives too. Ride On...
I love the switchgear. Especially the wizzy wheel 😂. The only big issue is the lack of back lighting.
I also love the suspension. The lack of dive and how it soaks up bumps is bliss for me.
I also think the brakes are fantastic.
Appreciate it’s your personal view and it’s great to get all opinions. But I don’t agree with you!
I’m glad you get on with yours! 😀. I think the wizzy wheel is more useful if you use optional BMW sat nav yes but after that the switch back and forward with the other switchgear for getting around the menu seems very clunky. Just got off a 2023 S1000XR with non Brembos on, stupidly better than the Brembo implementation on my GS. Tons more stopping power and loads more feel at the lever. But each to their own. 👍
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff I don’t actually have the brembos. It’s the bmw branded ones on mines. I don’t know if there is much difference though.
I just ride 3 Bikes Tiger1200 Ktm 1290 and the Gs 1250 yesterday and i fall in love with the GS!
Never thought it can be one im now want to buying one
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff I wonder if you got one with brakes that werent bedded in. I don't have any issues with the brakes. Its a heavier bike than the XR, so naturally the xr will stop faster, but the brakes on the GS are easily enough to lock a wheel so its plenty for my use.
I forget which publication it was but two "testers" if you will spent a solid month, many, many miles on both a new 2022 K1600 and R1250GS and they both came back and said they would take the R1250GS as a touring bike. I have ridden a '21 R1250 GS and was impressed but it hard to imagine in being better on the road than the big beautiful inline six. I'm not sure what it's as bad "as pants" is but I have the feeling you need to stick to your beloved triumphs although they have never made 💩 that is the least bit exciting.
I have owned more Honda's and Suzuki's than Triumphs so I have no mad loyalty to them. I only compare to Triumph as it is the last bike I owned before this GS and it was a 1200cc shaft drive tourer. My brother owns a K1600 but he lives in California and it is well suited to that environment, I am not so sure it would be the right bike for the roads I ride on and agreed the GS is a better proposition. Lots of comments from owners on the low chassis GS being the culprit from those that have owned both.
I own a 2023 GS Adventure Trophy. I agree the quick shifter is worthless. The suspension is terrible. The engine is very noisy (not in a good way). The tires (anakee adventures) roar. There is a lot of wind noise. The handlebar heat is on or off. It works good at 50 Fahrenheit, but at that temperature I don't need it. Below 45 when I want some heat it's not enough (it's worthless). I've watched reviews that said it's as good as any touring bike for long rides. No, it's not. My 1986 Honda Interceptor was better on a long drive, and it was mediocre at best for long highway driving. My last two bikes were Gold Wings. My last long trip was 6,700 miles. Could I do the same thing on a GS? Absolutely, but I wouldn't want to. I also don't like the wonder wheel, button combo. For me the TFT doesn't work. I'd like a greater variety of data displayed. I don't want to have to scroll for things. Like you said it's not all bad. It does have good balance. For what it costs though, I couldn't recommend one, and I own one.
Ooh, I think I just met my brother 😄. I forgot to mention the heated grips, exactly as you say, slightly warm or burn your skin off are the two options, that would seem like an easy thing to get right?
My quick shifter works fine. Those complaining haven’t read the manual. Throttle needs to be wide open and held open shifting up snd auto-blip on the way down needs throttle fully closed. If the suspension feels crap something’s very wrong. I went from a 1200 Tiger to a gsa with dynamic ESA and it was miles better on road mode. Get yours checked out because what you say doesn’t seem true of mine and I’ve put up a lot of miles on crap roads but mine was a 1200 which might have been different.
It's looking like the low chassis GS has quite different suspension characteristic than the std from all accounts.
I literally just finished a demo and told the salesman that the seat ergonomics were a deal breaker for me. _( Being pushed into the tank.)_ He never mentioned that the seat could be adjusted.
Ah jeez. Yes, it makes a big difference. It is also why the rear seat can be fitted in two positions to clean up the gap between the front and rear. Lots of people miss that, even long term owners.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff The store manager told me that if he could have only ONE bike, it would be the GS.
I think you need to take your bike in to get the suspension checked out. I've ridden some very bad roads on my '21 GSA and it had no problems in road mode. The problem you're talking about doesn't sound right at all.
Lots of owners who have owned both are pointing to the low chassis version, dealer says it is fine.
Great review. Yes, you are absolutely right: only when the new bike comes out is when motor journalists will be ranting about all the flaws of the previous model.
And yes, the quick shifter is rubbish. Absolute rubbish. Anyone daring to call the GS quickshifter smooth as butter either is lying through their teeth or never rode a Tiger 900/1200 or a latest KTM 1290 SAS.
Agreed, I can't believe so many people are defending the QS?
That's the best and most comprehensive, honest, objective analysis of a bike on CZcams, I'm leaning toward the new tiger 1200, ray in Co Cork
Cheers Ray, thanks for saying so. The Tiger is great, just too tall for me.
Agree on some points, and strongly disagree on most, but that doesn't matter.
I'll just try to help you out as a fellow rider.
Quickshifter is clunky in 1st and 2nd, silky smooth upshift from there on, downshift is always smooth. The trick is in reading instructions, you must have throttle on for upshift and absolutely MUST fully close down throttle for downshifting. It's a boxer and shaft drive thing, not to go into details now.
As for suspension, you have to keep it in Auto setting (not min pr max, they are for special use only) and you are right you only get 2 settings. BUT, if you plug on the dongle under your seat into the bike, you get buke to memorize what you use for what riding mode between the two, and you can use Dynamic PRO that you can set to have Road damping with Road or rain traction control and lets say dynamic throttle response and it will memorize it for you for good.
Hope you find this tips helpful to enjoy your GS more.
Thanks Jugo. Yes, I keep the preload in auto, my Triumph had a similar system. The GS just gives you a little more flexibility on that for a temporary upper/lower setting. The 2023 bikes do not use the dongle so I have Dynamic Pro as standard and have that set up as an extra rider mode. That defaults to DYNAMIC on the damping bias and as you say I can choose my other parameters. But It is just as easy for me to switch the damping bias and stay on road mode, same amount of button presses at the end of the day. Thanks for the comment, much appreciated.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff Yes, but with a Dynamic PRO, you get to choose dynamic throttle while keeping ABS, damping and traction control in check. And if you wish to unleash full crazy, just swap to "normal" Dynamic and that actually gives you the maximum you can get without manually disabling TC and ABS. If you stay in road mode, you can only swap damper to dynamic to firm up the ride, but I don't see the point in that if the rest of the ride is "dampened", so to say. On the other hand, going dynamic, but keeping some of the safety or comfort of road mode for certain conditions makes all the sense to me.
Could it be better, probably, but then it's overly complicated for those not crazy happy with the tech stuff. Perhaps they could have given us some option to ask in the dealership to unlock more control for people that know what it means to fiddle and tune their suspension settings (high and low-speed damping, preloads, spring progression and similar). Maybe in some next generation...
Thank you for this! I'm a 750 GS owner and into upgrading to 1250 next month. I think I should try Triumph then (never tried it).
Good luck whichever way you go. Test ride is your friend on the types of roads you use most.
Just want to ride..not interested in tech unless it flies.
Currently 1980 R100 RT..superb
Great vid..many thanks
Good choice! Just did an 800km 2-day round trip on my carbed Daytona 1200. Suspension brilliant, didn't miss a beat.
Funny- or perhaps honest.
Very subjective on points - but that is, what motorcycle riding is.
The QS, is a matter of bad programming on the manufacturer side. The suspension though - is a matter of choosing the right tool for the job. If You lower any suspension, You will loose travel of controllable damping. The gs can be a smoooth ride - but it can also be a brick in the a..
Having choosen the lower suspension version, basically was a mistake for Your application. But - as for roadfeel - look, none of performance bikes have telelever - so it will always be somewhat detached.
I dislike the engine feel and sound - but love the effectiveness of it. It just works superb.
This is becoming apparent that the low chassis model is the culprit. But, my 1995 1200cc bike with manually adjustable suspension, with less travel, can do a much better job of traversing these roads if reasonable suspension control & comfort is the target. The GS would ride right past it of course and disappear up the road as dynamically it is just brilliant.
Coudnt agree more on the suspension! Traded in my 2021 GS for a 2022 Tiger Rally pro.
Thanks for you posting your experience George.
I own a 2022 r1250gs. For virtually all my riding I choose the best paved roads. I do the same in my cars. To me there’s no joy in crap roads. They’ll turn your Lexus into a rattle can and my bmw into a back breaker. Good roads and “road mode” is the way to go on a gs (for me). I actually thought the suspension was quite good and have read very little to the contrary until your video. Not sure what the options are but buying a tiger is not one for me. Be safe and take the smoother path.
Thanks for sharing Bill! Buying a Tiger not an option for me either now they don't make a low chassis model. I tend to like crappy back roads for the places they take you to that you otherwise wouldn't see. A 300cc Scrambler could probably do it better I'll admit. Well I shall give the GS a good test in Austria & Slovenia this year and those roads are going to be just fine :-)
Checked my pegs. They're both perpendicular to the frame. I also have grown quite fond of my wizz wheel. Besides, who doesn't like to say "wizz wheel". Be safe.
I've been meaning to upgrade from a triumph 900 GT to a r1250gs
Guess I'll have to test drive it on my favorite nasty road before spending such an amount of $$$
Now I understand comments from GS owners "I hate this road" ... while on my Tiger I'm ok , yes the surface is rubish but the Tiger handles it
A lot of owners seem to think it is the fault particularly with the low chassis version but that still has a decent suspension travel so it is rather disappointing. Good luck checking out new wheels. 👍
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff have you considered a suspension upgrade ?
@@armandomorales5857 I have looked at it and it is serious money as any supplier must interact with the ESA module. There are some limitations on having the low chassis model too so I would be wary of spending so much for a solution that may only be marginally better. Had it been the non ESA model it would of been an easier prospect to consider.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff Touratech sells the full replacement of the suspension for low models , including ESA , and yes it is expensive $$$. It is a pity that such an expensive motorcycle has shocks that can not handle bad roads gracefully. Thanks again for the objective review
I think the GC Road Queen phenomenon is more of a thing in Europe. Not so much in USA. I'd say in the USA half of the GS rider go in the dirt. Good channel my friend.
Thanking you 👍.
I watched the suspension portion of this video and it absolutely cracks me up. You could do stand up comedy.
Too kind Bill. A very long time ago I was watched giving a presentation to a large group when I was studying for an Engineering degree. I was approached afterwards by a representative from the Oxford Operatic Society to see if I would join the group. I was in my final year and I thought the Degree was the most important thing in the world at the time and declined...DOH!
I would NEVER put my phone on the bike. Little scenario here, you come off your bike, you break your leg, you need to phone an ambulance, where's your phone...far down the road or in a field still attached to your machine, that's a long way to crawl in agony. Love the raspberry on the 'truly awful' title, had a right laugh there.😂
My phone tends to stay either in my pocket or tank bank but yes, take your point on it not being with me 👍. Very special raspberry that was 😃
Nice review, thank you. I have a 2015 1200GS I've had since new with over 40,000 miles, quickshifter works great and I love it and use it all the time, any gear, up and down. Just saying!
Many thanks. If it works for you all well and good, that is all that matters. But try a four cylinder BMW and see the HUGE difference.
Maybe if you had not got a 'lowered' version, the electronic suspension would work as BMW engineers designed. My 2020 1250 GSA ESA suspension is impeccable. It works out what to do way better than i can and it is doing it on the fly, changing for the changing condition. With respect, the suspension would not have been designed/calibrated for your weight either. Most suspension i believe is designed for about 80kg.
And i would give the quick change a rating of 8/10 for up & 9/10 for down. It improved from new with software updates.
Lots more i disagree with you but can't be bothered. Also lots i agree with too.
On my third BMW 12500/1250 GS/GSA and at 72 years of age and lots of bikes since 16 ,definitely the best bike(s) i have ever owned & ridden.
This seems to be a very common comment backed up by those who have owned both 👍.
Do you have the lowered suspension model? That’s supposed to be bad.
I do. It shouldn’t be mind as it still has plenty more travel than most road bikes.
It’s not the travel. It’s a known thing the short suspension is really harsh.
Loved this review, balanced and honest, right up to the suspension section. I appreciate everyone will have a different view and see things differently but wow!! That was (IMHO) harsh beyond balanced and fair.
I own one, and have ridden BMW’s professionally and have never come across the issues that you have described. I have never ridden the lower chassis version, but would respectfully suggest that you take the rear wheel lifting and damping issue up with your dealer as that’s never happened to me and believe me I have ridden in a spirited fashion on a myriad of surfaces and terrains and never experienced the suspension behaving as you describe.
That aside, it was a great review and I found myself nodding in agreement with most of it.
Shame ruined an otherwise great review
Thanks for your thoughts RT Reggie. Unfortunately my bike was in for service and the dealer said there was nothing wrong with it. But it is a real experience on this bike, I have no axe to grind with BMW at all, this is how this bike handles for me, with my weight (115kg) on this lowered chassis bike. On a poor undulating road in ROAD it is underdamped, in DYNAMIC it is overdamped (rear wheel to slow to remake contact with the road on some of the faster bumpier sections) and in both modes the high speed damping is quite poor compared to my two other 1000cc plus bikes.
I have the 2022 GSA Standard Suspension and enjoy both the quick shifter and the suspension. This is my first road bike so can't compare it to others. I would be driving a Cadillac rather than a motorcycle and jeep wrangler if I didn't want to feel the road. I do need to ride some alternatives to feel what you mean. I have had jolts with the quick shifter but far more smooth transitions even between the lower gears but again I have not had the opportunity to experience a better quick shifter experience. Definitely a couple things I will keep in mind for my next bike but I still enjoy what I have. Thanks.
Thanks for your experiences Robert. Yes, I think the standard suspension is superior by all accounts from owners who have had both. I think the new 1300 with its ride height lowering may be the key to an improved ride for shorter legged riders such as myself.