Shifter: Thoughts on Film Photography, Episode 001
Vložit
- čas přidán 22. 07. 2024
- For anyone my age, the current excitement level in regard to film photography is both hysterical and very, very welcome. I love film, always have and always will. Logistically, for the kind of work I am currently doing, film does not apply that well, but for the kind of work I most love to do, long-form documentary, there is nothing better and nothing I would rather use.
Like all things modern photography, there is quite a buzz around the film subculture. Frankly, much of this conversation is somewhat bizarre and seems to have skipped over decades of history and data, but any conversation about film that keeps the medium alive is fine by me.
I have been extremely fortunate to wear many different hats over the course of my career allowing for a unique perspective on the end of film, the beginning of digital, and the subsequent rebirth of film, at least in a small but potent way. Photographer, assistant, tech rep, evangelist, and even seven years as a "Photographer at Large," each role allowing for more inspection of what makes film so dear and not just to me.
These years in the field have also allowed me to take my time to learn the role film has played in the lives of some of the most remarkable photographers of the modern era, something I am eternally thankful for.
Hobbyist to hipster, low-level pro to high-level pro makes no difference. Film is divisive, imperfect in all the right ways, and capable of so, so much. Film makes us think in peculiar ways and the perceived weaknesses are what actually make film so strong.
I came up during the final years of film as medium of choice, at least in the professional fields, something else I am eternally grateful for. I loved it then left it only to return with even more appreciation for this legendary process.
TRI-X, Panatomic X, EPP, PKR, PKL, Ektar, Fujichrome 100, Agfapan (The original, not Provia, Velvia or Astia.) and a host of other emulsions are forever etched in my mind and my experience. Long live film.
Finally someone on CZcams who actually knows what he is talking about...
I'm sure will find plenty who feel otherwise, but thank you.
my art school teacher used to say: without all those people using film, making it a profitable industry, there would be no film for us. so let's hope many many people keep that industry alive. long live the hype, long live film.
"Nobody knows anything" the truest statement on CZcams.
Me especially.....
@@DANIELMILNOR505 I feel like Uncle Dano knows a few things.
Bravo! I spent my whole life working as a product photographer and pro photolab printer/processor. I am now 70, and listening to you made me smile. You hit the nail on the head with your discussion, so much ill informed opinions in photography today, so much nonsense. I now retired and have a nice big studio and darkroom, and my pleasure in life is teaching people to develop and print, from beginner to expert, and by expert I mean having the experience to understand how to get the most out of a negative. I have some younger clients who still have me do their portfolio prints, which is gratifying. Film is still relevant in modern photography, and many people shoot film and digitise for editing, which works well and gives a good result. We were shooting 10x8 ektachrome for high end automotive shoots way into the digital era because it made the cars look more desirable. I have subscribed, and look forward to viewing more of your work.
Wow, 8x10 auto. Legendary. I used to love to talk to the auto art directors who would go on location all over the world. Talking about sunrise in Morocco vs Spain, etc. Teaching is a gift. Glad to hear.
What a genius move of CZcams to drop me this video after I watched the trillionth video about a youtuber with a beard talking about his new "these ones are getting harder to find" rare medium format camera and showing one of the most mediocre images ever. I was thinking like "Am I the only asshole in the room to see that CZcams is full of this clones of hipsters sitting at their clean minimalistic 'Ow I better put that book in the background so they see" desk with the EXACT same lightning on their face and background, talking about cameras and not showing any above average images that would not even upstage your usual iPhone photo or even images at all?" Yes, I needed to get that of my chest. I can breath again. Thanks to you.
Well, they are catering to an audience and building following. That is what they know. The photography part takes too much time, typically, for anyone these days to really invest, especially those on YT. You simply can't produce good work a fast rate.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 I totally get that. And I absorb the (limited) tech info I occasionally get out of them. But it makes me giggle inside. Followers praising their images through the roof. Or fellow vloggers dropping by for a quick "You scratched my back, now I'll scratch your back" disguised as a genuine comment. It's gets bloated, styled and pretend. Which made your video such a breath (or storm) of fresh air. Can't wait for episode 002. Don't hold back.
This is exactly what I needed to hear. I've been caught in this Film-CZcams-fueled rush to buy tons of different film cameras mostly motivated by mediocre photographers who happen to have high subscribers. But lately I've been sticking to one body and one lens it's allowed me to focus on what this is all supposed to be about, the images.
Once you start making solid imagery and then printing those images the YT conversation will fade. My guess anyway.
Just subscribed to your channel because of the blunt way you spoke about this. I am not a photographer, not even amateur level. I am just a family guy interested in learning about photography with no filters or ideology.
Hey Daniel, thanks for all of this, so much valuable information. I plan to watch this again many times!
Hope to see lot's more of Thoughts on Film Photography, totally love this, you are a great speaker! Cheers!
Wow! This is amazing information! Finally, a authentic, honest and transparent voice on Photography. A no B.S. guy. How refreshing. We've had our differences, but I have a tremendous amount of respect for Daniel.
Dainel. Loved your presentation. I can tell your heart is in it. The best 35 minutes I have spent on CZcams in a long time. Thank you.
Love hearing from photographers who know what they're talking about. Subscription earned 👌
thanks Dan, been waiting to hear your talk on this for a while ....great knowledge and thoughts it was fascinating to me .to listen you .. ... some food thought for sure ...
I really enjoy these. I can’t stick with most people on CZcams more than about 5 minutes. I’ll take the long form ramble any day
amen
Holy cow. You've just convinced me to pull my film camera off the dusty shelf. I appreciate the film processing suggestions.
So good! All interesting and definitely refreshing. I'll be following you along for sure. 😊
You found your way into my CZcams feed and I’m glad you did. Glad to hear someone dropping some true wisdom about film photography. You have a new subscriber. ☮️✌🏾
Thanks Eric. Just rambling on...as I tend to do.
Just fantastic, thank you very much sir! Greatings from Cologne, best of luck to you.
Straight forward! Love or hate 2020, but so much is being revealed. Great video, subscribed!
I got alot out of this one Dan! Love the long rants.. packed with tips and truths! I've been shooting nothing but film for 2 yrs and sold my digital gear off. It was the best creative choice I have made for the work I like to make. I I especially found the 'box speed' info interesting. Look forward to the next one.
Hey Thomas, I would sell my digital but still using it all the time for work and mine is probably not worth much anymore...
Great speech, I really appreciate your statements. I am a true film user. Looking forward to such open thoughts...
I’m so glad I found your channel. This is so underrated
That transition era is so interesting, love to heard your story
Making me rethink my channel with that little talk. Haha refreshing take on the CZcams world. I’m guilty of it for sure and I’m fresh enough where I can fix my ways before I’m lost forever. Looking forward to the next one of these!
Love it! What a crazy ride it's been for the Foto world. You need to make a whole clip on crazy stories alone! Entitled "It just doesn't matter"...
I’m so glad a stumbled on this video. I’m now a subscriber. Please keep making content about film and film photography because it’s finally nice to listen and learn from someone who has actual experience and knowledge from years in the industry. Thank you!
More on the way. Not sure when but it's coming.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 Please sir, more film content... More info about box speed vs real speed would be great. I'm doing my own research though.
Great video. Great content. I think you are my favorite person on youtube. Keep this videos comming. Very inspiring :)
Your best video EVER! Thank you!
Great video, I think perhaps one of your best yet. 👍😺✅
Thanks Dan, that's a great piece.
So much sense in all that Dan, I started when there was only film and have been through digital and come back to film but will use either depending on what I am shooting and why. Great post.
Ya, it's a decision made at the front end of a project and then forgotten about.
So well spoken. I could listen to you go on and on all day long. Wait, I just did. 😏 Love you content and passion. You are the man.
I've been known to ramble.
You are a breath of fresh air in this industry.
8 minutes plus in -- I love it. I'll subscribe. Looking forward to following. Best wishes.
Ha, thank you. Good old film.
I was just yesterday explaining to an older photographer I've had the fortune to assist and learn from, that I, as a kid (well, I'm 30) coming up with digital in this age, had interesting opportunities while I also missed out on some important things. I learned taking photos firing 2000 rounds on AV, then sifting through the photos in Lightroom to see if any of them turned out, celebrating myself when I found a decent photo. While that's a great way to develop a distinguishing eye for what looks good and what doesn't, it's not really image-making. I've felt happy to rediscover photography through film and learn a bunch of stuff that I wasn't really learning with digital. It's like you say, the charm is in the limitation. Thanks for a really entertaining and informative video, looking forward to more.
I did the same with digital. When it arrived it came with overshooting at epic levels. Good photographers have tappered off to some degree but you still see people coming back with 10,000's of images and think "why?"
This is pure inspiration. Thanks! I am an old man (well, 45) getting into photography. Just bought myself a Fujifilm X-T4, not to have any gear excused. If my photos are poor, I cannot blame the gear, only myself. I will try to implement your ideas to digital, e.g. sticking to one film simulation at a specific ISO. I think that is bound to be a wise limitation. Keep rocking!
It goes against what the photo forums and reviewers say, but you’ll get the best colours, tonality and noise if you use the lowest possible ISO and try to get the exposure right in camera (as much as the highlight latitude allows you to)
Thanks! This was probably the most helpful film video I've encountered. I got into photography in high school and college, switched to film after dropping out of journalism school because I wasn't using my DSLR as much, and then picked the hobby back up 8 years later after losing bike racing as a hobby. It's been a weird world to get back into as film got back into style unbeknownst to me. There's definitely a lot of videos I've encountered on here that seem focused on chasing Instagram likes.
IG and the rest of social are nothing but pure poison in my mind. Designed to addict, designed to exploit human vulnerability, designed to destroy free will, designed to manipulate and yet pretty much every single photographer I know makes excuse after excuse for why they continue to use the platforms. WE are the problem. Yet another reason why I have little interest in the photography world.
On fire 🔥 Solid points and great insights
I felt like I was back in 1991 listening to my photography mentor. This is a refreshing video to find in the CZcams photography ecosphere. Please keep making this kind of video!
That was a good year....
@@DANIELMILNOR505 I was 14 that year...anyways, yes, more film content please!
That was fun! And inspiring.
Really interesting video. Keep them coming
Great Video as always Dan. I bought my first film camera 8 years ago to go with some Canon FD lenses I was using on mirrorless at the time. Figured why not have the option as I have the lenses? Messed up my first roll as I had no real knowledge. Got a second roll successfully shot, but put film aside for a while. Then after learning more on digital, I went back to try film about 5 years ago as an experiment, had a bit of fun but only shot a couple of rolls here and there. When I realized how easy it was, now that I knew more about exposure and photography, I've been shooting film exclusively in my own time for the last 3 and a half years. I've now shot about 110 rolls of film in many formats with a handful of cameras.
I've narrowed down my preferred films to Ilford Delta and Kodak Ultramax and I mostly shoot just one camera and one lens (Canon P Rangefinder and a 35mm lens) on a daily basis. And I've been developing black and white for 2 years now. I've learnt a hell of a lot from my mistakes, but I'm still learning and having fun. Hopefully will put together a blurb zine soon.
Looking forward to your next video!
Way to go. I would use WAY more film if I was spending my time working on my own projects but have very little time for that these days. And logistics are challenging. Zine is a good move.
Thanks Daniel! From a digital photographer that transitioned into film 2 years ago then back to digital due to quarantine and the inability to access labs in my area, I gotta say that learning the ropes of film has totally changed my digital process and workflow. Regardless of the medium, photography is amazing and I love both (though my Bessa R is glaring at me right now).
I think a lot of the film experts transitioned to digital really well. Not all but many. There was a multi-year period of wild overshooting, even the celebration of that overshooting. It was odd but has since tapered off.
I feel like I get so much more from Dan’s interviews and films than I do from other photography channels that are so hyper-focused on gear and gear reviews. Gear reviews have their place but you can only watch so many reviews of a $5,000 camera you don’t ever plan to buy. None of that stuff inspires action. They’re done by CZcams vloggers for other CZcams vloggers. It’s these videos that inspire me to get moving on my projects, take them seriously, and go shoot another roll.
Thanks B. I suck at gear reviews and my two fav cams are fifty years old. Not great for getting subscriptions I'm sure.
Because Dan is a PHOTOGRAPHER, not a gear collector.
I thoroughly loved this! You broke down the film v. digital debate to the true facts, with a unique and informed perspective as a pro in the industry for years. As an amateur/enthusiast photographer, I have been shooting film 90% of the time for the past few years, because 1) I love the end result (mostly a bnw shooter), and 2) I thoroughly enjoy the process. I love using all manual film cameras that I've bought off eBay for less than $100 that are often smaller, lighter, and easier to use compared to their digital counterpart, not to mention extremely less expensive. Taking my time, manually adjusting the dials to get a "right," or wrong exposure is so much more rewarding then auto everything because I feel like I'm actually making something, even if it comes out like trash. I took the time to learn the craft, something I will keep learning my entire life. Likewise, self-developing my negatives truly makes me feel like I'm contributing to the whole process from start to finish. I'm not a pro, I don't have clients to serve so I have no concerns about "sharpness" or the perceived costs of film, it's purely for my own joy. As someone in their early 30s, while I grew up with film end product, I didn't appreciate film cameras in their day, other than polaroids, in a sense I'm "revisiting" film, and I love it.
If you are happy and making pictures then that is what matters. Film and digital are both great but require different skills and different lifestyles.
I could listen to you allllllll week!!!!
As a millennial who got roped into film with the hipster/nostalgic youtubers, this was a fascinating listen and I can't wait to hear more from a legitimate professional. I myself have really paired down my fascination on gear and am currently committed to exclusively shooting with the 40mm lens I have on my Leica M4-2. Improvement is coming slowly but I believe my ability to compose an image will better for it in the long run
Little gear is a relief. Never have to think about it. Just shoot, edit, sequence and print.
Holy shit Daniel! Can i spam this video everywhere? So true! Nice words. Keep going on with this topics, we need it!
Finally someone with real experience to learn from.
could‘ve listened for another 3 hrs. awesome.
as a younger film photographer who cannot personally relate to a lot of the history/transition youre talking about -- thank you. I really needed to hear this and it has definitely aided in my thought process and overall creative workflow
Matthew, you might find some of it useful. Always fun to know odd things about this world.
One of your most interesting video. Been shooting film for about three years, and you are right you mentioned stuff no-one mentions. Please do more film videos, on anything, I don’t care.
On the way...
I loved every minute of this. 👊🏼
Thanks Craig.
When I was in school, we learned to develop and print film. That was in the 90s and early 2000s. Was a lot of fun.
Thank you for this message sir.
I really enjoyed hearing your perspective, thanks. It's really interesting to hear from someone with your experience in the industry, especially as someone who went through the huge changes of the last couple of decades.
Fwiw I don't think there's anything to be ashamed in being an amateur. I don't think that's what you meant, I am just saying that a lot of us hobbyists know full well that is what we are and are fine with it. I would even go so far as to say that being a hobbyist doesn't mean you can't produce work that matters, it's just that our audience is going to be tiny!
I also wouldn't be too down on CZcamsrs who don't know all the details of film. If you grew up photographically in the age of digital and didn't have the funds to study photography at uni; or you're making CZcams videos about your hobby, there's no reason you would know everything. I grew up in the film era but didn't get serious about photography until a few years ago,so everything - film and digital - is a huge learning curve for me. But I also love my day job and have no desire to chuck it all in to work client briefs as a pro. Hipster is such a vague term that I don't know if the people I follow on CZcams are the same people you refer to, but one of the lovely things about photography is how accessible it is, and therefore the variety of people who can talk about it on CZcams. For example, box speed. I have heard old hands on Photrio and FADU say similar things to you about it, but also plenty of people who just use box speed. If you are buying a film that says ISO 400 on it, are you going to take a gamble that one of the dozens of disagreeing people on fora are right, or trust the company who engineered it? I suppose what I am getting at is that people have all sorts of rational reasons for different approaches.
That got very rambly, thanks for reading all the way to the end!
I think being an amateur is the best way. I really do. Have felt this way for over a decade.
Thank you Daniel, you hit the nail on the head! Great memories, too. Do you remember a small bottle product known as "Push 8000"? We used to add that to Microdol X 1:4, chemistry around 100f, and processed for 32 minutes for our 35mm Tri-X or HP-5 when i was a freelancer with the Miami Herald back in the late 1970's. Needed to do this when shooting professional football or soccer at the night games! I vaguely remember you showing the digital Kodak cameras to some shooters in Denver back when I was with Reed Photo Imaging, but most of my dealings were with Tom Hissong, our sales guy from Kodak. I've often said we had shot ourselves in the foot by going digital, as we could no longer drop off the film and grab a cup of coffee or lunch, and then come back check the clip tests to see if we needed a little more "oomph". Oh, and I still remember all of my notch codes... That being said, it almost feels like cheating when I grab one of my Olympus digital cameras (and this goes with just about any modern digital camera) and just have fun in composing & shooting. All the best, sir!
Holy crap. I've never heard of that but when you mention high school football all I can think about is the paper having a 300mm F/2 and TMZ for JUST his purpose. It was the only time anyone used that lens. Olympus RIP. What a bummer. The Microdol reference....so good.
Dan, I've been following your channel for a while but for whatever reason, this video passed me by but showed up at the right time. Like you, I shoot Fujifilm digitally and film from time-to-time for personal artistic work. I've been having this conversation, not to the detail you did in this video, with some fellow photographers who started with digital, got interested in film but know nothing about film other than what they've learned on CZcams. I sent this video to all of them today. Thanks for your insight and the "films" you load on CZcams sir.
Poor guys. I hope it does them good. Film and digital are lifestyles in my mind. I like both, like you.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 agreed!
Great video, Daniel! Everything you just said, I've been saying (sometimes ranting) to other photographers since 1999!!
I almost forgot about good old EPP, we went through thousands of rolls of that stuff at the studio where I worked back in the 90's.
It was SO odd that THE film companies tried to emulate more than any other was EPP. Technically, there was nothing good about that film. Wasn't a true 100. Didn't have fine grain. Didn't have high saturation. Could not be pushed. But the combo of ingredients was unique.
Please more thoughts about film photography. Always embrace learning
Absolute gold.
Really enjoyed your video, really well done.
Hi Daniel ! This is my new favorite channel :) fantastic speech! Thank you and please make many more videos on this matter. I could listen to you forever. So insightful.
I especially like your comments on film iso rating and I am interested in your view of how much to pull each film (best ASA) and then at what ASA you should tell the lab to process it. I shoot portra400, E100 (sorry) and Ilford3200.
Andri. I rarely pulled film. Most of the time if I was tweaking a film it would be with push. Rating TRI-X at 640 or PKL at 500 or TMZ at 5000. Most of the time however, to save money, I would rate a film like TRI-X at 320 or 250 depending, then process normal.
I enjoyed this ramble! I gotta say I am totally in love with the E100 and it's what I am mostly shooting now.
As long as your shooting, you're shooting. Keep it up.
Thanks for this video - really enjoyed watching it.
I fell in love with photography as a teenager and it was never about the film or the lens or the camera. It was about the feeling of imagining how a scene/subject would look and trying to capture that... and that feeling of seeing if I had done it or not when I saw the resulting image.
Somewhere along the way it became more about the stuff I was using to capture images (it was never 100% about that but there were periods where I definitely became distracted by it). In those times the joy I experienced from photography waned.
Digital definitely hurt my love of photography. In fact it's been 20 years since I shot film and I so wish I'd seen this video before I made the switch. It's only in the last few months that I've swung back and have begun to reconnect with what I loved about it back as a teen.
Running my first roll of Tri-X through my camera at the moment and immediately switched it to 250 :-)
It's like assembling a puzzle. Things that trigger our creativity or brain paths. It can come and go, like film, but whatever you need....keep looking for it.
ok, you win, I subscribed. Excellent points.
Totally with you here in regard to the how vs why. My biggest gripe with the CZcams and Instagram photographer community pushing their 'zines is it's always because of the 'how' (film) and almost never the 'why' (artist's intent, artist's purpose, etc). Thanks for putting it out there.
Well, I they are catering to a crowd. Whatever the crowd eats they will serve. Same for all social. It's about popularity. And once you make the deal you have to roll with what the masses want. It's just a boring conversation if you are possessed by the final product.
fantastic Daniel, i have been itching to get back to film photography, the only thing holding me back is the cost of processing.I may look into learning the basics of black and white processing as i mainly shoot black and white with my nikon d3 and 50mm lens, i think you put your arguments over very well and thank you ,very imformative, best wishes and be safe. Jeff
Processing film is SUPER cheap. And it's easy and fun and offers endless variety.
One of the best nostalgia trips I'll go on this year... Twenty years since I shot film daily (on a newspaper), and now Mr Milnor tells me why Tmax3200 was rubbish shooting dimly lit football night games in Northern England. I believed the box...& got thin negs. Y'see, always learning. Excellent video Mr M.
That film is magic but it's nowhere near a real 3200. Getting it right can be tricky because every lab seemed to have a different strategy.
Daniel Milnor even Kodak themselves in their data sheet state it’s 800-1000 ISO speed
Man... This video was superb... I started film photography back in the mid 90s... Some of the stuff you were talking about I recognized too, some was an eye opener. If possible, like to hear what you have to say more on film ISO... In photo school we were taught to generally shoot at box speed. I knew about Portra being able to be shot at about 1 stop over but not really at 100 and being developed normal for the most part. I just bought some Portra 400 this past weekend and going to give it a go at 100. Love your channel 🙏✌️
Most of the Portra at 100 with push folks were portrait, fashion and celebrity portrait folks who wanted creamy skin tone. They never taught us about film speed either, in my PJ school.
Most (or all) of the corrections for digital shots you've mentioned are part of what ACR/Lightroom and C1 do nowadays, so it should no longer be a problem. Bur very interesting story, and it shows how much know-how was actually present in professional film processing labs (and luckily still is), that people weren't aware of "back then".
All the analog masters, labs, retouchers, etc. are the ones who are the best at digital. Go figure.
Hey Daniel, just found your channel, loved this video, very inspiring! Subbed, can't wait for future vids, watching the Blurb Q&As now 😛
Blurb Q&A's....I've always got a few of those in the pipeline. It's a complex system so many things to know.
I needed to hear that! I shot all those films you mentioned in the 80s and 90s. After that I focused on life as an art director. Now I'm returning to my passion, still have many of those in the freezer, including Panatomic-X (my BW passion). It was so nice to hear you, brought SO MANY good memories back, man! Thanks!! Stimulating!
I'm having a hard time finding the right things to rebuild my darkroom, but things are on the right track, My F2 and F3 are ready.
You've no idea how much it was stimulating to hear this. My best!!
Just left you a comment but it didn't go through for some reason....hmm. Careers were made on Panatomic X. Also amazing were the papers available which all had heavy metals so it was an environmental tradeoff. Glad you found something worthy.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 sure! That was incredible. A 32 ASA film that had grain and tones not competing with each other. How I loved it. Hope the ones on the freezer do well when I decide to use them. I'm from Brazil, darkroom materials are hard to find but I'm working on rebuilding my home lab with quality materials. I'm impressed by how many things vanished! Well, we have to deal with whaat we have and do our best to take the most of it.
I've the same vision on many points. I see people today don't know what they're doing. They don't undestand liight, they shoot 1000 pictures on a day and believe that's photography. In my opinion that's editing, no photography. I'm an Art Director, I've heard many times "photographers" say "later we fix that on Photoshop" - whatever it is, from bokeh to background colors, composition, focus, you name it. ABSURD!
As you said it's much easier to take three shots right. But you have to KNOW what you're doing. And many know the equipment, the techniques, but lack the vision. I follow thw Ansel Adams school: visualiza what you want and work to get to it.
Daniel, pleased to meet you! I've already subscribed to your channel. I'll watch you videos and sometimes hope to have the pleasure to exchange ideas, vision, concepts with you again, ok? My best!
Daniel Milnor a note: Fuji RDP is still relatively widely available, in its third revision, known as Provia 100F. It’s pushing abilities are, I assume, even better now with the technological advancements. I’ve pushed it two stops and indeed it looks amazing, clean shadows with no shifts
Excellent rant. I'm not a photographer, but I repaired cameras for 25 years and met a lot of camera owners across the spectrum. The conclusion I came to was that amateur photographers cared mostly about the equipment, while the pro photographer cared mostly about the image. All that mattered was the image. And selling it, presumably.
My experience too. Same for truck guys, fishing guys, etc. Gear heads vs people who catch fish.
Got into photography a few years ago, Bought a digital camera ,then the stumbling block, invest my time in learning photography or spend it learning another software package. Ended up with a Nikon F2 some chemistry and a scanner. Learned photography basics first. I take the photo, I process the photo and I view the photo if someone else happens to see it and like it all the better.
That's a good move. A great way to learn.
Film has a heel and a toe, what's not to like? I've shot a lot of P3200, and I'm glad they brought it back. I'd also like to see BW400CN revived. My time is to valuable to do scut work, paying lab costs and hiring a pro retoucher, makes economic sense.
It's interesting to find out that film is still acceptable to agencys today-good to know info.
It always amazes me that people don't do tests. They are easy to do, and don't cost much. After testing you know what YOUR personal ISO, customized to the way YOU work. Unfortunately most people want to be spoon fed.
Testing is SO critical whether it be film or making books. Nothing in the art world comes on the first pass, everything is via revision. 400CN! Wow. I'd forgotten about that.
Great video !!!
Really good talk. Still use and love film.
I am an armature, I’ll admit that. I am younger than you, and it was really interesting hearing your perspective on shooting film professionally.
I shoot and develop and scan my film (sticking to B&W only), going through 100-250 rolls of film a year.
I agree with shooting without a meter. It is so much more freeing. The only time when I want one is when shooting indoors.
As far as only one film, I’ll compromise for two films. I shoot Delta 100 @200 whenever I can, but Delta 400 @400-1600 when I need more speed. I used those plastic boxes for 60 rolls of 35mm when traveling S.E. Asia for a month in January of this past year.
Also less is almost always more. I have found that 3 prime lenses is the max, and two is often enough.
Good video, keep it up. I clicked on the video without knowing who made it, and I was curious what some hipsters had to say about this topic.
I think I'm too old to be a hipster but a foreign trip with a bag of film and no assignment....that is pure heaven. I miss those days. Hopefully, once C19 resolves, we can get back to our voyages.
Very interesting video. It made me realize I’m most interested in the cameras, the mechanical/physical part of the film world than in the actual picture taking.
I’ve been thinking about this for a long time, probably a couple of years, and you just made me realize that I’m right about it.
The good thing about this is that it doesn’t really matter because it’s not my profession, I can goof around all I want with interesting medium/large format gear dating back to the XIX century, modding cameras and lenses, designing backs for instant formats and such, without caring a lot if I’m “doing it right” or if I’m being “professional” about the final result, my pictures.
It’s a great thing to have film photography as a huge hobby rather than living off it.
But I do see your point regarding “professional” photographers (they love to be called that way) whom don’t really know what they’re doing or why but they love to pretend they know everything.
You are not alone. There are considerably more people interested in the equipment than actual photography. Always been this way but even more so now with Internet. Data don't lie. Nothing wrong with it. I love cycling and think the bicycle is one of the most important inventions of all time.
Thank you for being honest. I realized the same thing, it’s like a love for pretty, tactile machinery… but I am serious about my photos too. Realizing why I am interested in gear and accepting it allowed me to forgive myself for GAS and I began to treat my love for cameras separately from my love for photography, so that the former is not confused with the latter.
This is EXACTLY what photographers under 37 need to hear. Cheers, Milnor!
Didn't all those famous people die at 37? No, wait, that was 27. Dude, you are free and clear!
@@DANIELMILNOR505 Hah, I'm 32! Old enough to shoot film on vacations as a kid, young enough to rediscover it as an adult. I know a lot of people obsessing over gear & fetishizing film without a real project in mind.
Really engaging, thanks!
Amazing thanks for sharing
The best I took away from this is "It just doesn't matter". I am keen on film and digital having started photography in 1975 reasonably seriously. All the things you say about film are true but I am just happy to see people embracing photography whether it's film,digital, iphone,pinhole,holga,polaroid etc.. In reality the best negatives are arguably the old glass plate ones.The detail in those pics is amazing.That would slow us down a bit.Almost to meditation speed.Thanks for creating content. It does stimulate thinking.
Geoff Thompson I’m about to do something in regard to glass plates
@@DANIELMILNOR505 thanks Daniel. I particularly am a big fan of Darius and Tabitha Kinsey. I have a big coffee table book of their work which is amazing.I think I will do a book review on it soon.The technology they used was mainly glass plates with massive cameras and tripods.
Nice to take out the viewpoint from hipsters and take it back to photography, nicely done.
This is great Dan, could listen to you for hours. Refreshing to hear someone who knows what they're talking about. Would be curious to hear you dive deeper into what needs to be done with film scans (I don't know what I'm doing so I just do what I do in the darkroom in Lightroom) & what role Photography school /BA/ BJ / ASSISTING plays these days!
Scanning is an art form. The good news is that labs do it well these days. The bad news, most good scanners are so outrageously priced they are prohibitive for most. And they are finicky, need to be calibrated/repaired fairly regularly. You can use your digi cam to copy negs. I'll try to work these questions into a new Q&A.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 Thanks! It's more the software side of things I struggle with, for 35mm I use a Prime film xas which is as slow as it is good.
I absolutely loved what you just said. I just started developing film at home simply because I love the fact that you can really touch the images. I love to develop and love to go shopping for films. The printing is going to be the next step.
You know what is the most boring and less enjoyable part to me is? The scanning process. I lost almost completely any interest on the digital side of the process. I almost became allergic to the computer.
I love the feeling that images (which is the document of my life, being just an amateur passionate about photography) really take space around me and not only in my HD.
Long life to film photography! :-)
I spend my entire life in front of a screen now, for the most part. I too can't handle the scan times and it's also difficult to get a good scanner now.
Ditto . It seems if many people could have a dark room they would . The computer side is zzzzzzzzz...
I need more videos like this!!!!
THANK YOU !!!!!!!!
Now THAT made perfect sens!
Not even 1/8 into this video and I just became a huge fan. Preach on.
Thanks Jose. Glad you like.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 No thank you. There are not many sources of actual photography knowledge on YT, it all gear reviews, affiliate links, and SquareSpace. Refreshing to hear someone just talk about the work.
High school first roll I developed in black and white and was done. I knew what held my passion from that day forward
That seems to be a common affliction. Same for me.
Hot Damn! I learned sooo much from your video, especially the actual film speed. I would say I am an educated photographer, not a pro tho. It my extreme hobby now that I'm fully retired. I have a website, but it is mostly a travel site I keep. I grew up in film in the 70s. Then got out of photography totally. Bought my first DSLR in 2005. And now I have going back to film. It is so fun! I have 6 digital cams, 3 35mm film cams, and 2 TLRs. What I pick to shoot with is pretty much my mood, and what I am going to shoot. I am going TLR for sure now, and I would say each photo I make takes me about 5 minutes. From figuring exposure, composing, shooting, and then I record in a journal each shot and the exposure values as I have never shot FULLY analog manual TLRs before, and not using a single battery for the shot! I never talk camera specs, that's boring. I am also a retired Navy Chief, I have thick skin, you can't hurt my feelings :) I post on Flickr for fun, and never get any comments, that is OK, what somebody thinks about a photo is completely different what another would think. Cheers!
Make a magazine, leave lined pages then hand the magazine to someone you know and ask them to write their thoughts about the images on the lined pages. Then do it with a stranger. See what happens. Navy Chief. That sounds like a real job. I would have joined the Navy but it was the fortitude, strength, courage and aptitude I lacked. And I would have probably failed the drug test. Film is a blast. It really is. I wish I had better logistics because I'd be using it all the time. I am, finally, learning to love the digital side of things but it's a different experience.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 believe me, I was sweating the urinalysis test ... I went in when I was 31, very long hair, bell bottoms, and big ol boots. They had fun with me.
Great vid, Daniel!
I'd love to hear all about the 22 steps to fix those digital files to compare how fixing those characteristics has changed, if at all, since 2005.
Travis Latam never gonna happen. I detest tech stuff. My post routine is as painfully basic as I can make it. I’m sure half of those softwares don’t even exist anymore.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 Very fair point! I actually love that you don't enjoy the tech stuff and don't talk about it much on your channel here. One of the reasons I actually show up to watch them. I'm still breaking old thought patterns of gear and stupid stuff that ultimately doesn't serve me or the work I do, so I actually thank you for not feeding that curiosity I posed - truly.
Saw this back in late 90’s while I was using 810 Polaroid and 120 b&w & positive stock. Have now moved to digital and like the poster mentioned use it as I have any camera - making sure it’s in the can .. with my past film photography it was not always 100% guaranteed to have the image but as long as the kit was in working order the photograph was there after processing. Now digital allows for checking if you’re unsure but I don’t feel comfortable with the idea of is it there is it not. Just a way of thinking over a very long time in a varied career and life. Digital or film or wet plates whichever you feel is suitable for your practice, art or hobby.
Yes, it's all good and worthy and valid and entertaining.
I always dump all my rolls in a big plastic see through bag when I travel. From Myanmar to China they were happy to give me a hand check because customs loved seeing my cameras haha. The bag makes their live easier and a smile always helps too. Also keep on rambling, Daniel. Always love photography ramblings. :)
Same for me, most of the time. TSA is like "Hey, that's film, how great is that?" On the flipside you now see customs forms with "Do you have more than 12 rolls of film," and if so they try to nail you for importing or trying to sell. They also don't understand that most pros don't shoot film and the guy next to you in line with the iPhone who is streaming live and posting nonstop is the one most taking advantage.
Lisa W I know the video you are talking about. But it’s the new CT scanners that you have to worry about. They make a 3D scan of the contents of your bag and are 100 times stronger. Kodak and Ilford released a new protocol for them. And besides. If your photograph earn you money you just don’t want to risk it. Even with the old ones.
@@lisaw150 Also, I've had TMZ base fog after two scans. I shot that film for ten years and traveled with it extensively. scanners are hard to predict.
I don't shoot film. Been toying with the idea... I reckon I could listen to you talk about almost anything for hours. Keep on keeping on
Worth a try. For some it's like rediscovering photography.
Awesome vid man
I’m new to photography been a about a year now. Bought a sony a6000 then got hooked. So down the rabbit hole of photography ordering books buying every documentary i could get my hands on. Even pulled up old courses and class lessons i could find on google. With that being said i bought 3 35mm film cameras just got a rangefinder. I bought them for learning experience in the sense you got to know your roots. I do enjoy shooting the film portra 400 for me . But lol the hipster film culture is to insane for me all them flannels and beanies and deep Confucius quotes..love the video subbed , it will be good ganing some knowledge from you .
No Confucius quotes from me. And it's too hot for a beanie. And I have no tattoos and no drone so no chance I'm gonna fit in that crowd. I do have a van however...
@@DANIELMILNOR505 re: Tattoos - I'm playing the long game and waiting for not having a single tattoo to be the "edgy" trend.
I have followed years since the Leica File thanks for being real
At some point I will hopefully do those again...