overcoming malignant shame [cc]
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- čas přidán 7. 06. 2024
- A reflection on one of the most damaging kinds of manipulation used by abusers: shaming. Where real-life cases are cited, details may be altered to preserve anonymity.
You can support the channel at: / theramintrees
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0:00 a common emotion
1:28 defining shame
1:51 shame vs guilt
3:00 psychological consequences
5:50 private shame
8:40 common sources of shame
14:15 retraining the brain
20:15 judging what's acceptable
21:34 public shame
22:27 tyranny of the majority
23:04 coming out
25:05 some shame-inducing groups
30:23 a faceless mob?
32:30 shaming by stealth
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opening quote:
The shame-bound individual is like a fox
that’s been trained to hunt itself to exhaustion
while the hounds sit back and enjoy the show.
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subtitles
Russian: Sergey Savelyev
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references and reading:
Feiring, C., Taska, L. and Lewis, M. (2002) Adjustment following sexual abuse discovery: The role of shame and attributional style. Developmental Psychology 38 (1), pp.79-92.
Harper, F. W. K. and Arias, I. (2004) The role of shame in predicting adult anger and depressive symptoms among victims of child psychological maltreatment. Journal of Family Violence 19 (6), pp.367-375
Joireman, J. (2004) Empathy and the self-absorption paradox II: self-rumination and self-reflection as mediators between shame, guilt, and empathy. Self and Identity, 3 (1), pp.225-238
Lewis, H.B. (1971) Shame and guilt in neurosis. New York: International Universities Press
Marschall, D., Sanftner, J. and Tangney, J. P. (1994) The State Shame and Guilt Scale. Fairfax: George Mason University.
Mill, J.S. (1859) On liberty.
Sznycer, D. et al (2018) Cross-cultural invariances in the architecture of shame. PNAS 115 (39) pp.9702-9707
Tangney, J.P. and Tracy, J.L. (2012) Self-conscious emotions. In Leary M. and Tangney, J.P. (eds.), Handbook of self and identity (2nd ed., pp.446-478). New York: Guilford Press
Tangney, J.P., Tracy, J.L. and Robins, R.W. (eds.) (2007) The self-conscious emotions: theory and research. New York: Guildford Press
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painting:
Titian (c.1559-1575) The death of Actaeon
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music © TheraminTrees
Full original music tracks used in videos are available to patreon supporters who pledge at the $1 per video level.
![double binds | narcissistic ‘no-win’ mind games [cc]](/img/n.gif)
"How perverse is it that our abusers throw us into survival mode, and we despise ourselves for trying to survive?" OOF I had to replay that cuz it hit hard.
I'd expand that to say "our abusers throw us into survival mode and then teach us to despise ourselves for trying to survive"
our abusers throw us into survival mode and we despise ourselves for raiding villages
I'm watching this from the angle of how as homeless people we are abused and exploited in much the same paradigm...
my problem is that I don't have a particular abuser. Its always me and its always been me. I have enough self awareness to know how lacking I am.. and Alot of that can't be changed through effort (or my foolish self believes so).
@@bapbirb That simply cannot be true. As a child, no one of us shames ourselves. You are doing what is talked about in the video: you are taking responsibility for something that isn't part of you.
I told my parents recently that I check a lot of the boxes for autism... They said,"don't be so stupid, you're NOT autistic"... I agreed that I most likely was not autistic because the same traits are shared by children who have suffered prolonged emotional devaluation in their formative years. The look of fear in my mothers eyes was priceless.
i feel you on this one, hope you actually manage to get tested for it! I'm still trying to convince my family
I would look into borderline personality disorder. There is an overlapping where some people might assume they are autistic but really it’s a bit developmental gap in childhood from lack of teaching proper social and behavior care for the child
I’ve been trying to express my needs to my mother for 38 years, and she always tell me that I don’t have it but I tick every box of I feel, when I take autism tests. I recently went to the orthodontist and was told I needed adult braces: was thumbsucker as a child. She refuses to acknowledge my needs but I do it anyway
wow! you rock 🪨! This video that we watched,seems to encapsulate the essence of what made us click on it in the first place.
As a child I was repeatedly treated like this.
The damage sustained by the innocent child is enormous and very wrong behavior for any adult to keep getting by with.
But they do.
Who is watching the kids?
If all caregivers were on film and we were to show the film to truly altruistic people , maybe we could change all this crap!
So many broken people!
Sad thing is the people who are responsible for these insidious interactions are rarely if ever held accountable.
😢 Reminds me of Nurse Ratchet on "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest"
She did not get many parts in movies after that role that she played.
However I saw her in something recently.
The witch on the wizard of Oz got more fan mail than any other actress at that time. What does that say about our society?
PROGRAMING!
In kindergarten we learned this song.
Be Careful Little Eyes What You See.
Be Careful Little Ears What You Hear.
Etc.
Used to run that one through my mind growing up.
Helped me sort out some crap.
The Chorus went like this and for the non believers out there and I am non judgemental on that, you can feel free to substitute a camera for the God I state in the chorus because a film camera sees too. So here we go. Chorus: For The Father Up Above Is Looking Down In Love Be Careful Little Eyes, Ears, what you see hear etc.
love the song and hope all kids get to learn it as early as possible. 😊❤
We knew a little bit about right and wrong instinctively as children.
But the powers that be that forced us to acquiesce or go along with their twisted ways of thinking made for boatloads of self doubt and cognitive dissonance.
But they thought they were " The Winners"
sick wrong and hope this can change some day. But that would require actual grown up behavior which is in shorter supply these days than ever before.
At least that is my take on things.
Wishing for more healing out there. Maybe more camera's are in order
LMAO 😂🎉!
😊❤
@@NEbluefire I am confused with how you took what I said. You just described what I said in my comment. Can you clarify it better if that’s not what I meant?
John Bradshaw once said, "Guilt is, 'I made a mistake'. Shame is, 'I am a mistake'."
I am a mistake... my parents were both under the age of legal consent... My conception was a criminal act... society did not punish them... So I feel it is me "Shame" that must punish them for their actions... thank you society for allowing me to teach these 2 disgusting criminals who still think underage child sex is acceptable behaviour as they were not punished that they were so very very wrong in their actions...
I am shame
I also go by the name of karma
Put shame and karma together you may end up with a highly volatile reaction!!!
I think that quote is from Brene Brown
The amount of children who are psychologically and physically harmed then are told to either stop being such an easy target or that they "made themselves cry" is heartbreaking. There's also cases of kids being punished for nonviolently standing up to bullies.
Stop being such an easy target- is nt any gentler😅 that bootstrap talk. Trust me that doesn't work either. Suck it up is not good advice.
@@aellaaskew4263 yes because there is no personal responsibility to fix problems. Its always a locus of external control and learned helplesness .
@@j.2512if someone's swung fist strikes my face its obviously not my muscles doing it.
Makes me wanna cease existence from the whole universe
@@VilleGardian Don't die
"To feeling some forbidden emotion, maybe anger or distress." Or happiness. I was a pretty enthusiastic child, but that was quashed. Not just by my parents, but by certain teachers too. And other children, especially other girls. It took until my 30s to let myself show anything but mild contentment again, and still, in my 40s, I sometimes worry that something bad will happen if I'm too happy.
This resonates. As someone who's been there, I wish you an abundance of happiness.
You have the power to feel as much happiness as need be, don't second guess yourself when you are in control!!
@@BBWahoo True. It takes a lot of practice to teach your brain to put less weight on putting the brakes on. And letting go completely is also not a great idea. Context and balance are still important. That takes a lot of learning and practice too and it's soooo easy to, when things get a little more difficult, just revert back to old habits.
That other people will often criticize you for not being the perfect responsible adult at all times also doesn't really help. It's good to remember that they don't know your past and they haven't lived it and regardless of the criticism, it's unreasonable to expect it of yourself. And like I said, it's criticism, I didn't say they expect it or that they judge you for it; that is all in our minds and in our expectations. Maybe something worthwhile to think about.
I resonate with this. Thank you for sharing, I hope your journey continues in a positive direction and you find it easier to let yourself feel happiness without shame ❤️
I am a gay man, and that has always been a source of friction with my very conservative catholic parents. When marriage equality became a reality and my then partner, now husband, and I, were planning our wedding, I called my parents to tell them. This was a happy, joyous occasion, but I knew it was going to be a tense conversation. I knew they would want to suppress my joy. I also knew my mother would give me the silent treatment, so I went in with a strategy, which was to fill any silence with constant chattering! I didn't allow a moment of silence to happen. Then, with very little pause, I said, "well, I can't think of anything else, can you?" She said "no", and I said, "Okay, well, we'll talk soon, then!" It's a shame they couldn't really take joy in the whole thing, but I was happy that at least I didn't play their game and let them get me down!
"Shaming is an abuse we're taught to inflict on ourselves." Wow... That really hit me. I have no idea how I never really realized that
You should be ashamed of yourself. 😂
@@adambranch8692bruhhh
@@adambranch8692 and the cycle continues lol
On the opposite end of the spectrum, those people that are utterly shameless make my skin crawl.
@@adambranch8692for treating your mother like this! As she beats the hell out of teenage you - for staying in school and not going mental-
11:20 “One of the most twisted kinds of shame’s instilled in targets of abuse is the shame of sticking up for yourself.” This hit home.
Same here man
Yes. My abuser was just recently given probation. CPS was called the night HE tried to strangle me in front of my kids. Guess who still has a case open?! Yep, me! Even though my kids are my LIFE. They are cared for, loved, and provided for. I got out of that relationship just to be put into another with CPS when no matter what, I am a fk up.
I'm tired, my kids are tired. Since Jan we've not been able to relax or heal.
@@NorthernGreenEyesOh man I'm sorry to hear about that. That kind of situation leaves scars, and uhh the authorities arent always going to support you, you gotta have firm boundaries and always be thinking about safety. Its gonna just be like that for a bit. I hope you have support around you friends, family etc
i started sobbing at that part, i recently had to throw out my brother from my house knowing he had no where to go because he is an awful person, to the point kids arent safe around him, and even still i was wrecked with shame and guilt for putting my foot down. now I know its just discomfort because its a new feeling.
🥺😢😭
every little mistake i made in front of my father resulted in scolding. he never tried to teach me how to do something, only that i was doing it wrong and that i should stop. i've been afraid of trying new things my whole life because if i can't get it right the first time i'll feel like a failure, and because of that i feel like i've missed out on so much. thank you for reminding me that there is a way out of this.
You just described my own experience with my father. I'm afraid to just express myself about things I enjoy as well, as they teased me about things I enjoyed when I was a child when those things were "wierd" and even shut me out of those things completely a couple times. I wear a shell that gives them the appearance of "normal" and I'm afraid of leaving it, despite wanting to.
THIS. Thank you. It's even worse that my mother also thinks this is stupid like "LMAO YOU CAUSED THIS. So why do you get to complain like oh no the consequences of my actions! "
Yes, it's almostvas if we KNOW this already about ourselves and any effort we bother making will.only make the mean Mom correct.
My parents were the same especially my father. He was a narcissist (would probably be clinically diagnosed with NPD). All he did was yell at and shame us when we screwed up. No patience whatsoever, just trying to scare us into not screwing up in the first place. But most of the time we didn’t know what we did wrong or how to do things properly the next time around. He never provided that type of guidance. I think a lot of times even he didn’t know what he wanted. As a result I’m anxious all the time and scared of everything. I’ve lived my 35 years of life flatlined, not daring to try anything new for fear of failure. He made every failure like a life or death situation. I don’t take any risks especially social ones where people can observe and judge my incompetence. My life is one big bore. I’m not suicidal but I also know that this is no way to live. I think I have avoidant personality disorder. I’m trying to make some big changes this year. The sad truth is our parents most likely had the same upbringing so they honestly don’t know any better. We are all ultimately responsible for ourselves as adults and it’s up to us to do better. There’s unfortunately no competency test people take before becoming parents.
@@ingrid3578 I'm in the same situation though I'm slowly and trying to break out of it. There are definitely times I'm proven to just not take enough risks but at the same time it's just in my personality to be impulsive. I think it's part of who I am and there's really situations I have to or else I'll know I won't be as fullfilled. Failure often leads to loss, sure but never trying at all won't teach me to know better next time. I think that's valuable too. Consider all possibilities and gamble within my capabilities
"Do people who provoke raw survival instincts deserve any place in your life?"
Wow. That's an amazingly easy way to see the dividing line between OK and Not OK, even where emotions cloud our perception. You really know how to teach us concepts with just a few powerful words!!
Amber Heard for example
This is one of the core problems with bullying at school or similar places where you (actually or "just" practically) _have_ to be - you can't avoid having the bullies in your life. It would be up to the authorities at the school to do something about it, but far too many look away, consider it "not their job", or even consider it a "learning exercise" (as in "he'll have to learn to stand up for himself" or some such bullshit)...
@@Wolf-ln1ml Yes this is on the teachers. The problem is there is no consequence for their actions (of the bullies). If someone bullies me at my work, they would be fired (assuming I reported it and could back it up). Bullying is more a problem for those under 18, which is probably the worst time in your life to endure something like that. I haven't really been bullied since I was 14, but I wouldn't wish it upon anyone.
@@jimmym3352 I would say that bullying takes a different form in the workplace as an adult. And very often the bully makes the victim appear at fault.
Personally, I don’t think it makes any sense to teach kids to tolerate bullies, nor to expect them to be able to subdue them. I’m fortunate that I was homeschooled... I wouldn’t wish this common part of public education (and private, too) on anyone. 🙇🏼♀️
@hazel that really hit home for me too. Noticing if someone is provoking raw survival instincts is a simple, concise formula for removing unhealthy people from one’s life 💯
I can attest from personal experience that parents who don't know what they're doing and could mean well can sabotage their children with malignant shame just as easily as abusive families.
Trueeee
My parents are wonderful and loving and I cherish them so, so much.
... But when I was at my lowest point they shamed me and it hurt very badly. They were confused and scared and simply reacted poorly. They have since apologized for it, but the consequences were very real.
Yep. Sadly abuse doesn't have to come from a place of hate or ill will. Sometimes it's cultural norms or the parent's own shame that leads to it. This form of abuse is just as valid. The abuser in this case (just like more obvious abusive relationships) has more plausible deniability because "they love you" or "everything they did was because they love you". The only difference is if society classifies something as abuse or not. This is not to say they are evil. They are just broken and should never had had children most likely, but their children pay the consequences and it's up to every individual to decide whether or not they want to forgive. Too often forgiveness is not given as a choice and presented as required to be a good person. Not true at ALLL
@@Pensnmusic impressive they apologized. Mine keep blaming me
My greatest fear as a parent right there.
Big difference is acknowledging mistakes and apologizing, even if you dont realize it till much later. Parents aren't perfect and communicating that to your children would help so much. Caring to repair in some way. My parents acted like they were God's who could do no wrong. The only times i remeber them apologizing was is an "I'm sorry I have to do this, I'm doing this because I love you" way.
I don’t care if the world shames me, I feel it more with family. It hurts so much knowing I can’t be my authentic self around my family. Thank you for making this informative video.
There is nothing worse than having to kill a part of you slowly in order to please the people you love. After a while, you start to forget who you really were, and the way back grows ever darker and more lost. Truly sad when we can’t be accepted by our families
“I used to think that the worst thing in life was to end up alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel alone.” -Robin Williams
It’s especially tough because America is a very family-oriented society. This is why some families are like this. It gives them a great sense of power, knowing the forever, permanent loneliness and isolation they are forcing you to endure by casting you out. The other members do not want to be alone so to avoid being ostracized as well, they will all gang up on you.
The toughest part is having a family like this is a fact that will never change. You can always make a new friend or meet a new lover. You can never force an ostracizing family to accept you. And you can’t just create a whole new bunch of cousins and aunties, unfortunately.
@@conorknapp6764mine never even gave me an option to try to fit in. As soon as I was old enough to dress myself, they all instantly let me know they would never love me no matter what I did.
Oh no that sounds really shitty.
I feel like families are meant to love unconditionally. Being ostracized by "family" seems surreal to me. I don't know what horrible crimes I'd have to commit to get my dad to just cast me out of his life, he loves me, hes great. And if your dad isn't like that I wonder if he's actually your dad or just the guy who provided half the DNA to create you. I know thats not a traditional perspective but seriously your family is supposed love you, if they don't then they're kindve more like neighbours or housemates.
Making children is easy, being a father is hard. You know what i mean?
It cuts so much deeper when it's family. Especially with a parent/primary carer. I'm going through a period of facing up to the person in my life causing me to feel shame and boldly telling them what I believe instead of having their beliefs pushed onto me. It's painful because this is when I experience the most spitefulness, but it's been freeing in the long run.
When I was 5, I told a family friend about some of the abuse I was experiencing from my mother. She told me I was wrong to judge my mother. As an adult, I told my older sister how our mother had shamed me. She said our mother was just doing the best she could and it was my responsibility to understand that. Where do you turn for comfort after this? I believe in taking responsibility for my life but I won't take responsibility for someone else's cruelty. This has been a saving thought for me. Thank you for this video.
It's BS when they say things like that. Abuse was common back then, but abuse is still extremely common now, yet we don't make excuses for people abusing others at this current moment. People had the capacity to be good people back then too. People are human and do pass on trauma, but they also have the power to not be that way, and to deny it is just keeping abuse alive.
Yes, I thought the same about my mother - feeling guilty because I am critical of her parenting (severe emotional and physical neglect). "Doing the best she could" just doesn't wash with me. Feeding and putting a roof over your kids' heads is not parenting. I don't forgive my parents for what they did to me. I never will. They passed on all their shame onto me. It wasn't my fault. That is the first step to take. Know, believe and FEEL that it wasn't your fault.
Yes exactly! What happens when we have no one left we can trust enough to comfort us. It is incredibly sad.
You need to learn intrinsic (internally based) value instead of seeking external approval/validation
@@f2dw No one "needs" to learn what you you say they should.
In a country where therapy is expensive and mental health barely an issue, this is the next best thing, thank you.
Same here in my country
Hello, fellow American. Please consider joining a communist party. Things don’t have to be this way, and we shouldn’t have to keep waiting for liberals to grow a conscience.
Believe me, after over ten years in therapy, and too many therapists, I have never encountered a therapist with this level of insight.
I have learned more about myself from watching these.
I guess what I'm trying to convey is that you might not miss out on 'the real thing', this is just as good.
May you recover and prosper.
@@martinb4272 TheraminTrees himself is a therapist too
Same here
One problem is that the abuser is not always being deliberately abusive. The person can be loving and trying to do their best but bound in their own abuse completely unaware of what they are doing. They pass it on. Shame just soaks in.
That is a shame indeed. And it's also my father. He didn't know better and wasn't able to figure it out by himself, so he inflicted it upon me with all his strength and frustration. As I now keep repeating myself: "I understand why he did it, but I cannot justify him." I like to think he died not knowing it, so he was able to go in peace. He left me so much good things, almost as much as bad things. Now is my job to separate and filter them so I don't inflict them upon my own child.
@@anameyoucantremember oh gosh the stakes are pretty high, but you clearly possess the insights necessary to not repeat your father's mistakes. You'll be great.
I understand, WHY my parents did or didn't do.
It still wasn't my fault.
And it's hard not to take it personally.
Whether it was me or another person born in my position, they'd still do or not do.
I didn't ask (but maybe pre-birth I did, that's whole 'nother topic) to be born to this dysfunctional group of crazies.
This video is healing.
Thank you.
@@Karina_Engr yeah thats true, although we do know of consciousness as 'the true us', it's kinda hard to infer much things else from it. Though without memories and informed consent, any contract should be immediately voided after a memory is gone, afterall such contract was only made by an identity which does not exist now, contract cannot and should not be ascended to that level,
That is what I'll think I do if I'm an reality engineer lol
I'm surprised you didn't talk more about how victims of malignant shame often consider themselves so worthless that they reason themselves out of asking for help, because they don't feel worth other people's time, and/or that they don't deserve help because they are evil/worthless. My situation was doubly bad because, in addition to thinking I was never worth anyone else's time, I spent my whole life shaming myself into believing I didn't even need help because I'm to blame for all my problems because no "real" abuse like physical abuse happened to me.
Thanks for this input... 💛
Man that sounds awful, I felt the same, I did cop a bit of physical abuse, mostly emotional abuse but frankly the self hatred and feeling worthlessness was/is properly harmful and its self inflicted, and pretty much constant nonstop.
To cope I've kindve learned to direct that hatred towards the perpetrators, much better to feel like they're the ones who are worthless.
At least sometimes I'm able to cope that way, sometimes not.
Happened to me too. After all my intense trauma my whole life, people in my family like my uncle will always downplay my OCD, ADHD, and Depression by saying, "I work with kids who are born without arms, so you don't have it hard". Rich coming from a health professional, someone who should also consider maybe the child born without arms may also end up suffering neglect as a result of their condition and develop OCD, ADHD, and Depression like me, since they are human too, and they likely wouldn't share my uncle's negative attitude about me either.
This is really true. I want therapy for myself but I've spent so many years getting told by my parents that my problems don't mean anything/aren't bad "enough" and never will be because I grew up with a stable home and supportive parents. I don't face physical abuse, so therefore I face NO abuse, and therapy is useless. Unfortunately, while they are well intentioned people, they did still inflict strong emotional trauma onto me and refuse to see that they have ever made any errors in parenting. My mom deliberately yells and hurts my feelings to encourage me to do better, instead of looking for better, less destructive solutions. I don't know. It's really hard to let go of that shame and that feeling of "They're right; I don't deserve help, my life's perfectly fine."
I'm so used to having to think that way that often I struggle to identify my sadder emotions until they come barreling out, or that when they DO begin to surface, I underestimate and dismiss their severity because "I can't be depressed, I can't be sad, my life's not bad, I have no reason to be sad"
I dunno. I hope I figure things out soon.
Thank you for your post.
I really relate to your post. I have felt the same almost my entire life.
Realized a few days ago that I live off of a "shame-based identity." Saw something on Pinterest that listed some things, all of which I relate to, such as always feeling inferior, not enough, feeling powerless and small, and wondering why anyone would like/listen to me talk. It culminated when I was sitting with some friends and after I sat on the couch, I immediately curled up to make myself as small as possible. A friend sitting next to me asked, "there is a whole couch. Why take up so little space?" At first, I didn't think much of it, then when I remembered it I thought, "because I have programmed myself to see me as small and insignificant." Then I realized that I view my body and my whole existence with shame.
I mean, it IS a good idea that you shouldnt hog couch space, because its annoying for everyone else to take up so much space. I think you did the right thing for an emotionally flawed reason
Oh wow... Well what are you gonna do? Surely you can't just keep ceeding space, eventually you'll not even be on the couch, curled up in a ball on the floor beside the couch.
And then what? Curled up in a ball in the hallway? Whats next curled up outside the house by the door?
You are allowed to be on the couch it's not shameful to use it for its intended purpose, rather its sensible to just sit on it comfortably. You're allowed to i promise.
I can actually relate to those things from the list too. It's something I'm noticing recently cause I never managed to put it in words. I'm sorry you feel this way.
I feel the same. I feel like a blip, a small nothing. Even in conversations, I tune out because my mind feels automatically that I don't belong and it hides itself in its self-doubt.
@@carlosemilio5180 he/she VERY OBVIOUSLY knows that. It was useless to point this out.
"I think that little girl was very strong, because she made it here to tell this story."
Ha. Got me tearing up, man. What the heck? That hit close to home.
Same, I had to pause the video and cry a bit
I have difficulty crying unfortunately, but that line gave me chills.
As Trixie Mattel once said,
"Shame is a landfill emotion,"
If you lived alone in the woods, you would never be ashamed. But overtime, people throw things in your landfill and when you get older, you find that you've been carrying around so much baggage
This is really deep and all but girl UHHHNNNNNH
I can’t believe I found a Tracy fan out in the wild
She was right to be so smug about that saying because it’s SO apt
“Many targets feel deeply ashamed for allowing the abuse to happen.”
And suddenly there are tears to my eyes.
Survivor here. You did what you needed to do to live to tell the tale. You used the tools you had available, at the capacity your body and brain allowed you to have at the time. I love you, be safe.
That’s your subconscious pounding on the door.
I had that yesterday, someone said that “I wait too long to get help for myself, it’s almost like I feel I deserve to be in misery”
As soon as I heard it tears just started flowing. I couldn’t control it if I wanted to
The abuse and neglect I experienced goes so far back that that statement never occurred to me. It never occurred to me that I was allowing ANYTHING to happen, because what was happening was coming from everyone, from all sides. I'd never known anything different. I certainly saw how people treated each other, but they didn't save any of that respect for me. It more made me assume, quite subconsciously, really, that I must deserve it. I never realized that that was the feeling until about a year ago. That was a big moment for me, because I'd heard other people say that, and I'd never understood it before then. I intellectually know that nobody deserves to be treated poorly, especially children. So the phrase didn't sound right to me. But when I was finally encouraged to begin articulating those feelings, and was encouraged to dig deeper than I ever had, by a therapist who would respond to everything I perceived with "But why?", I got to the end of my thought process and that's what I found at the bottom of the onion. "Because I must have deserved it."
And I understand that feeling now. And I understand why. And now I KNOW I didn't. There are a lot of things we think about ourselves, no matter how well, or poorly adjusted we are, that never quite make it to our conscious mind, but those thoughts really do drive everything we do. It's quite frightening when you start to realize that you really don't have a lot of conscious, free will until you start to dig that stuff out.
Yep. That is the deepest shame I feel. I know I did my best at the time, but knowing that doesn’t help. 😔
Oh, yes. That's what im going through. For year's now...
Pavil's story about his dad getting lost while driving brought up a disturbingly similar memory from my own childhood...My dad showed me computer games at a very early age, and the only one we had in common was Age of Empires 2. I played that game religiously as a kid. One night, I heard him getting frustrated because he couldn't figure out why the farm hadn't been unlocked in his playthrough yet. I heard him wondering if he'd somehow picked a civilization that didn't have the farm in its tree. I casually checked his map out, and let him know that he hadn't built a mill yet, and he needed to do that to unlock the farm. He brushed me off and would get more aggressive the more I insisted that was what he needed to do. I let it go.
He found me later and sheepishly told me I was right, but then "jokingly" got upset and asked why I hadn't told him before. He would do things like that A LOT while I was growing up. Sometimes he would pass it off as a joke, sometimes he'd be completely serious. I never realized until just now how utterly confusing that was for me as a child. I never knew how to respond to it. I'm 29 now. I've had times in my life that I've wondered if I was autistic because I'm so unsure in social situations. I can read social cues and facial expressions just fine, and my sensory issues are more related to ADHD, so I don't think I'm autistic. My parents and family were just so unpredictable and strange growing up that it's messed up my foundational understanding of social interactions.
Can I ask how you’re managing to deal with the messed up foundational understanding of social interactions as you say, or how you’re unlearning the effects of what your dad taught you? I think I have similar issues and your story resonated with me so thank you for sharing.
That hit me like a truck. My father did the exact same thing all the time. It sucks
This is exactly how my textbook narcissist and alcoholic father acted towards me and my siblings growing up. Giving him information towards a problem he’s struggling with? His reaction would range from violent dismissal offended thinking we had anything to contribute, to brushing it off followed by crocodile tears “why didn’t you tell me sooner”
thats just flat out gaslighting buddy
@@franzluming2059 My dad did a lot worse than just that. There was sexual abuse involved along with a slew of other things I don't want to get into. He doesn't deserve my forgiveness and he will never get it. It's healthier for me to stay far away from him.
Where should I send the $800 for this half-hour of customized personal therapy?
I had tears in my eyes through the whole thing. It perfectly described the mental state that I’ve been fighting for my entire life and that has been coming to a peak this year.
I was thinking about how I’ve battled this my entire life, as well, and I’m with you about having it be a real battle this past year. I tend to be very non-judgmental of others, but yet, I expect to be rejected and ridiculed if I come up short on almost anything myself. So, I relentlessly try to be perfect, because I’m afraid of what will happen if I’m not. And, when you’re put in situations where perfection is impossible, what happens? For me, I suffer and worry. The analogy about the fox hunting itself really hit me.
If anyone out there knows how to break this cycle for good, I’d like to hear about it.
@@danielsarahbelle well thats the thing it kinda depends on your specific situation, aka what you have been convinced of.
20:54 question everything you know, especally the things that seem obviously factual, this is where talking to a therapist becomes invaluable.
@@danielsarahbelle
The damage took time so be patient with yourself & take the essential time to heal 💞
@@danielsarahbelle My shamer was my mother. I say "was," as although she is still alive, I finally mourned the death of what she should have been. I decided I have punished myself enough.
You’re not alone.
I've written this so many times in my diaries over the years: "If only I knew what is so fundamentally wrong with me, then I could change it." Now (at the age of 57), I am finally learning that it's toxic shame that was injected daily into me by my parents. Thank you!
I am a 49 year old man and I feel lost, depressed and full of shame. I’ve wasted my life being unemployed for huge periods, drifting along, occasionally getting my life together but mostly not. It’s been a struggle 85% of my adult life. A crazy upbringing didn’t help and things along the way. Just hope I can find some strength to keep going
@@justmadeit2 It sounds like it's a miracle you survived your crazy upbringing. It has set you up to lack the necessary skills to thrive. A book that has helped me enormously with identifying my issues is from an Irish writer called Danu Morrigan. She knows. Boy, she really knows. I know you have super powers because you've made it so far. I truly hope you will find understanding and acceptance for your strategies. Take care, dear survivor.
I'm 63 and finally
have a name for what I've been feeling my whole life. Lots of different shamers too.
"Shame is like a fox trained to hunt itself" - The best description of shame I've ever heard.
That's deep 😢
I experienced this abuse at a job where one manager hated my guts. My confidence was completely ripped apart over the course of 6 months and I was pushed to my wit’s end. My skin was severely breaking out from the stress, I vomited almost every morning from anxiety, and I cried every single day I came home. It took months to regain what I lost after leaving and I seriously feel traumatized by the way I was treated. Thank you for this video! Having full awareness over what was happening really validates the way the way I feel about it and also helps me heal.
I experienced this, the memory lingers decades later. It was my first proper job and affected future jobs too. I internalised his abuse.
I am sorry it happened to you. Hugs 💛
@@trappart9209it’s rotten and very real.
@@yoya4766I’m one of the senior people in my job and this is a recent experience. After all I survived, achieved and moved on from. It is in health care it’s happening- disgusting.
This happened to me on the job. I quit. It was the most abusive group I have ever met. I studied six years but I never want to try again.
While I am aware this is not something you explicitly address, I wanted to mention it.
This is the reason why so many people with neurodevelopmental conditions end up having many other mental illnesses. They (or "we", since I am speaking as one of these people) are CONSTANTLY showered with criticism and/or derogatory statements towards us and people who act like us. We hear consistently how awful we are at socializing (since our difference makes it harder to relate to others), or how rude it is not to look at people in the eyes (for autistic people in particular, like me), how we should stop fidgeting (when this is near-impossible to stop for many people with these conditions), or stop counting, or "act normal", etc.
This consistent treatment wears us down and frequently results in intense internal shame, especially if we don't grow up knowing that we have a named condition. Parents reject diagnostic labels much of the time even when children are diagnosed, so their children "are not restrained by a label". But, rather than having the label of a clinical condition, we get labelled as "weird", "wrong", or "broken". It's incredibly unsurprising that this constant treatment of cruelty results in mental illness such as depression, anxiety, personality disorders, dissociation, etc.
For anyone else reading this who is neurodivergent - you're damn strong to still be here and your difference, regardless of how disabling it is, does not make you "broken".
Im not (I think) neurodivergent, but Im ironically open about being socially awkward and introverted. But I (at least I think I do) understand where you're coming from about the communication thing.
Its not like [youre] trying to be rude, or pi*s anyone off, or be passive agressive. But far too many people simply will NOT accept it, like [you're] lying or something.
Then those same people have the gall to chastise [you] for "getting your feelings hurt" (basically gaslighting, so you think your feelings shouldnt be protected).
I may or may not be projecting.
@@pureflix8086 Precisely. I was never trying to be rude, nor are so many neurodivergent people. But, because of different body language, behavior, difficulty remembering, etc - you are accused of lying, insulted, and more: Then, told you are "soft", or "weak" for reacting as hurt.
I am sorry, regardless of what your background is, that you need to deal with it to any extent. Incidentally, if you suspect you may be neurodivergent in some way, researching some types of neurodivergency isn't a bad idea! I actually have a detailed video on my channel about autism (though there are others which are far more well-produced than mine, mine was a recording of a university lecture I gave on the topic). Even if you aren't ND, more knowledge and reduction of stigma is good!
It took me a decade to drop enough shame to stop being depressed. I was suicidal at 19 and I made it all the way to 31 with the help of a loving family and a few friends.
That shame led to me being very socially reclusive. Even now I struggle to go out with friends or family, but I have improved a lot. I can remember just 3 years ago going to dinner for my mom's birthday and being so sad I started crying during the meal. I'm in a much better place, now, but it's tough. I still have work to do. Still finding different things that elicit disproportionate anger, shame, or defensiveness and working through them. Taking a few minutes to breathe and let the feeling subside.
We need some kind of community. Someone we can trust, talk to, and be ourselves with. I hope you all have some friends or family that you can authentically be yourself with and let the shame take a break. A little refuge from the storm.
Appreciate that.
^^^^ PREACH. I love you, thanks
I spent my entire childhood being shamed by adults. Where my mother left off, my teachers took over. What kind of teacher deliberately shames a six year old child in front of a whole class? Over and over again? It is amazing that I managed to get through all this, with my lunatic drug addicted mother, and all the years of abuse that followed in school. I got married and have had a fairly good life, including children and grandchildren. My sister was not so lucky. She committed suicide at 43.
That's power. You are amazing.❤️
Your sister was the scapegoat, I guess.
May both you comtinue to have peace, this is a future I want to achieve
@@Lyrielonwindhave some empathy or fk off
You'r assigned for this mountain to show others that it can be moved
Still feel sorry for u...
This resonated with me deeply. I am catastrophically ashamed, I feel chronic embarrassment for merely existing. However, I don’t know why or how I started to feel this way. I grew up with a narcissist father that was very emotionally and mentally abusive but I’ve always felt I’ve “disconnected” enough to the point I don’t even care. So I’m not sure why I carry this horse
I can relate to how you feel. You're not alone. We'll figure it out in time ✊️
me as well...@@jakeb3157
you probably just dissociated half of the time which is a common coping mechanism when faced with trauma. im assuming that u also have a hard time connecting to others or feeling ur emotions entirely bcs of how u blocked much of it. i never knew i was abused until i started really understanding my behaviors and why im the way i am today so im sure once u start reconnecting with ur trauma u will understand how everything has affected u
I feel a similar way. I don’t think about my childhood in a negative light much, but looking at it objectively, i know i was neglected and mistreated. It’s a weird feeling, but understanding that is that first step.
That image of the child's world collapsing rather than expanding was me. My home was a refuge when school was a lonely, shame-filled ordeal. I can barely write about it in coherent sentences such is the power of the shame in me. My friends that moved away. The teacher who told my classmates to not be friends with me. The antidepressants. The awful coping mechanisms and the loneliness and how because of all these things and more I don't deserve affection...
I wish so deeply that 9 year old me could have seen this video.
'I wish so deeply that 9 year old me could have seen this video.'
-For many years, when writing videos, I would think about the messages I wished I'd had some access to when I was a child. Spending formative years in shame-peddling environments can mean a lot of extra conscious house cleaning work - pushing out whatever kinds of dirt were injected into us and gradually clogging up the holes that allow it back in. Peace.
@@TheraminTrees i think you should be proud and happy to know, that some of us who are younger, deeply appreciate you making these videos, as they DO reach us in a critical time. thank you.
@@internetperson3228❤
@@TheraminTrees I think it would be a nice project to make videos such as this one, but in a language and presentation that is more digestible by children. I think it would be great help for children who are being abused or are otherwise being subjected to trauma.
@@nyarigyorgy2766yes…
The person here who describes what their teacher did. That is Child Abuse.
My parents didn't actually tell me I was useless and unimportant. They just didn't bother with me. They neglected me emotionally due to their own mental health issues. I've grown up feeling pointless, invisible and worthless. I have BPD and every day of my life has been exhausting. The work I've done on myself has been immense but I'm on the right track to loving myself. My message to everyone struggling is, it is hard work but we can do this ❤❤❤
my mothers first husband always let us kids know exactly how much we cost him- dinner was the worst. to this day i eat silently and quickly, to get away from the table as quickly as possible
Yeah I've started working on this, peter levine and gabor mate are good for releasing childhood trauma, I've also started reading the Bible, I don't think it's coincidental, that biblical repentance is parallel to releasing trauma
Same
@@rickspalding3047 Hey Rick, amazing observation you made about the bible. i found connections as well in the stories of the bible, but also in other stories and movies - heroes movies like lord of the rings, etc seem to me to represent the pattern of a way our psyche works. when i have a problem that is causing me distress, it's like a story unfolds, and it ends the moment I am back to peace. but between these 2 points its like the story of the bible is happening, from start to end. I think it's not coincidental that if you watch every movie and read every story they seem to have a common pattern. This is what us humans are trying to understand as an unconscious process and the way it evolves and the way we can grasp it is through creativity, because what's going on in our minds in moments of hard distress is still hard for us to rationally understand and will be still for a long long time. How can we even conceptualize certain sensations, emotions and patterns of cognition? If I advance this hypothesis in regards to the human archetypes, which we can only intuitively grasp but not completely as it needs the shadow part in order for it to exist. There are so many information -> hence a story that has the elements needed in abstract in order for the story to make some form of sense on SOME level, even if that level is not conscious. That's why we enjoy movies.
BPD is the fuckin worst. Shame and guilt is debilitating so often, yet its seen as laziness and melodramatic.
I finally found my people that know my issues and accept me as i am, but still set boundaries. I needed this so so bad.
This year has been such a turnaround its unreal. To anyone suffering, you will find your tribe, your people or person. It will come, no matter how much you hate yourself someone will help you. It wont always be easy, but the best things rarely are.
You can do this.
At age 20, I became disabled due to extreme abuse. I moved in with my older sister and her kids and helped her raise them. As the years went by, and as I came out as bi, my family reacted in a way that was horrific and shameful. They shamed me for being disabled (ever since the beginning) and for being bi, and I soon realized that if I wanted to heal, I had to get away from them. I miss my nieces and nephews every day. I told them I loved them but needed to cut contact for a while. The abusive adults in my family have either forced them to not have contact with me or spun the story to fit their needs. I love my family and miss them, but the amount of shame that I felt around them was suffocating. I feel it every day, the struggle to heal from years of shame and gaslighting. For anyone reading this, thank you, and good luck on your journey. We can do this.
Thank you for this message and thank you for being here with us today! I wish us all a brighter tomorrow.
Shame is so hard. Thanks for this.
I feel you, I hope you recover. I'm still trying to recover.
Sorry you went through all that. I hope you found a good family and that the days are getting better for you.
you became disabled because tumblr convinced you that you were 💀
“We’ll accept you, as long as you don’t talk about THAT part of you” hit really hard because that is unfortunately the stage I am at now with my relationship with my parents on my healing journey. It’s unfortunate because now in all my interactions with them I can tell they are trying really hard not to step on eggshells with me, which on the surface seems great because now at least they see the boundaries I’ve set, right? Well no, it sucks because all these interactions feel disingenuous and it creates a feeling that we can’t be honest with each other, which is a huge part in making a healthy relationship with someone. By me voicing my beliefs and standing up for myself and being genuine and honest I am meeting in the middle, but they refuse to meet me there. Instead, they hide away and by doing so subtly express their shame about me. It sucks because I have done all I can, and if they don’t want to meet me in the middle, there’s nothing more I can do, and that’s sad.
@HouseRN I hope you find ways to be yourself and not let them in until they accept all of you. And I say that because it's honestly the fastest way to show them what will and will not be tolerated. Because you're still allowing a disparity in the treatment you deserve versus the treatment you're willing to compromise for and accept. Love yourself full volume, don't turn it down because it's too loud for those around you. Never sacrifice your comfort to accommodate someone who would not do the same for you.
"With little power comes little responsibility"
Wisely said.
It's amazing that so many "parents" get off on torturing their children instead of nurturing them, but as long as society keeps looking the other way, they're going to go on doing it.
Great point! When society finally *does* shines the spotlight on abuse, however, we hear the usual 'oh but she's your mother, she only means well!' as just an example. Goes to show that it's not just society ignoring the problem, but gaslighting us survivors and victims when society's *forced* to make some form of statement or acknowledgement about it. As if our suffering and cries for help are inconvenient to them.
Because let's be real... They are. Our society relies largely on exploiting the majority so that a few can experience power, riches, et cetera. This is exactly what happens in a 1-1 abusive relationship, just multiplied as a sickening tumor on the macrocosmic level.
That's why it's up to us, the ones who were used, abused, and nearly killed (like in my case), to keep on making noise. We refuse to go down quietly and conveniently. We. Were. Hurt.
We, for our own sakes and those of future generations, refuse to be hurt any longer.
and they still say the traditional nuclear family is the only good thing to aspire to.. so much bullshit
@@vivvy_0 You could have a clan that behaves the same way.
@@lisarochwarg4707 sure but heteronormative family systems is pushed down our throats was what i really meant, and like it is the only thing worth having. but if it's the only good thing how come so many broken children from said systems
@@vivvy_0 You sound insane
For anybody wondering: the way out of the shame loop is through cultivating self-compassion. Easier said than done, but it's the only answer I've been able to find that makes any sense.
💖
@@mikuenjoyerXD 🧡
I can't do it. I've tried. Depression is killing me and the depression was caused by shame. There must be another way.
@@wingnut71 Sending you lots of love and a prayer for resilience. 🤍💪🏻 What have you tried exactly?
what is your specific routine for this?
i used to have really long hair and whenever my mom found a strand of my hair on the ground, i would get punished for it. she also always said "i birthed you perfectly. any imperfection you show, is because of you, and you alone". this video was needed. thank you.
Your mom’s a dumb bitch and she’s crazy to boot. The average person sheds about 100 hairs DAILY. What does “I birthed you perfectly” even mean or have to do with anything? You can give birth to your baby and have nothing go wrong but then they get sick later, it’s nobody’s fault. Nobody is perfect. Everyone is sad and pathetic at least sometimes, it’s the human condition.
“Ah yeah my toddler throwing up all over themselves? Well I birthed them perfectly so why should I help with all of this imperfectness??”
Some people amaze me with stupidity. A good backhand to the chin could fix a lot of them :)
@Kittysuit
Wow, I am so sorry that you went through that! Your mother sounds like a narcissist.
She sounds horrible! Hopefully your surrounded by better people who love you for who you are!
That's horrid!! This made me realise my parents do this too somewhat and they are narcissitic! They make you wnat to dissappear and hide any proof of ur existence
“Keeping shameful secrets just insulates us from support.” 👏👏👏👏👏
I was thinking the same. But if you are surrounded by malicious, unsympathetic people, it is better to hide it.
Born and raised evangelical Christian, this was the air we breathed in, the oppressive weight we didnt know we had on our shoulders. The group pressures, the dirty looks. Thank god for the internet and channels like this.
T h a n k G O D
@@mollymalone2838 I woke up the other day and had a cup of coffee. I listened to the sounds of early morning and it dawned on me that i was content in myself. You will get there too. It takes time.
Evangelical christian? What is the diffrence between this and Orthodox?
@@sokol2629 Evangelical means they have an extra emphasis on evangelising (sharing their beliefs with others). In America, evangelicalism is a brand of Christianity that is fundamentalist (meaning they believe that the Bible is the completely literal and completely infallible word of God). They are very conservative and traditional, (often being very anti-LGBT+ and "pro-life") and very often tied in with right wing politics (even though they will often claim they are apolitical). Hope that was a helpful explanation.
P.S. I wish you all the best in your healing journey, wherever it may take you 💖. I hope you all are able to get the help and support you need, and find a supportive and loving community (religious or non-religious).
@@crazycookie9000 Thanks for the explanation and what is "pro-life"? Sorry if I ask too many questions.
Theramin, I live in a three-adult household with my partner and my best friend, and all three of us have experienced parental abuse that incited long-term shame. We've been aware of it for some time and we've been processing and healing over the years, but it can still be very painful. When I noticed this video drop, I immediately shared it with both of them, and all three of us were brought to tears. Without any professional therapy on the matter, the three of us have had to come to heal through intense reflection and, as you put it, being our own 'Socratic questioners' (though at times we have played that role for each other), but to have our maladaptive shame responses so clearly understood and voiced is a deeply therapeutic validation. Thank you.
It's lovely that you have each other. My best to all three of you/
@@TheraminTrees I'm one of the three too, Jimi just linked this response. I've been a fan for a long time as a former JW and I want to express my gratitude for your work too. We are so fortunate to have each other.
Hello Matt. I'm glad to hear you made it out of that corrosive high-control group - and that you've replaced that pseudo ‘family’ organisation with the real deal! Peace.
I recommend you all get therapy when possible
Don't mind me, just appreciating the most wholesome interaction on the internet.
Stay well everyone.
"when the time felt right, I put the following situation to him. A couple decide to have a child. They experience financial struggles, feuds with relatives, and physical illnesses. How responsible is the child?"
"A long pause. Then a laugh. Then a quiet declaration - 'I wasn't responsible' "
I could almost imagine his face during this- the emotion was palpable. Your ability to tell stories and convey the emotions in them is telling of your skills as a therapist. I teared up at that part, thinking of what must've been going through his mind.
"Ha! He's talking about me... Oh... It's... Not my fault..."
Truly beautiful work you do
That part was extremely powerful because I had the exact same conversation during therapy, almost word for word. If it weren't for it being in a different language I would think they were talking about me for a moment 😅 It really is that simple sometimes
Shame is a form of mind control, your world expands so much once you get rid of it.
And when you antagonize those who try to shame you and they see you can't fall into what they want anymore you will see the frustration on their faces, and it's priceless.
14:30 This moment hit me particularly hard, that visual is so perfect. I recently learned to start thinking of my inner monologue as several different people. When I have emotional flashbacks into shame and selfloathing, I started noticing and pointing out to myself: "these are my mothers words, not mine", and suddenly the voice had a face, the mask slipped. That realization was the turning point in my healing journey, it was the moment I shifted from beating myself up, to taking care of me and tending to my wounds.
❤
Proud of you ❤
Same 💜
Wow that's really powerful. I'm going to use that technique for sure because I have a lot of internalised shame
I have a similar experience, but it's much more difficult to tell since my mom has put shame on me just through pressure in certain situations, elevating fussing at why I spilled the milk to an hour of extremely tense silence sometimes interrupted by prodding at my chaotic mental state all while seeming like a normal healthy interaction. So while I have the same kind of distinct voices in these thoughts, they've always been my own. Not sure why I'm writing this here but whatever it's probably just good to vent in some random reply section
Malignant shaming cripples its targets. Especially when it occurs in childhood and is repressed by the victim. It is an insidious and ugly emotion that prevents the victim from reaching their full potential. It is easily recognized by the predators in our lives. Who use to it to their advantage by recognizing that through the imposition of impossible standards they will keep us permanently under their control. It becomes even more painful when one realizes that it was the people we loved and respected the most who were always ready to throw us under the bus. Thank you for helping me to understand the enigma that was my life.
Damn Troy is a legit badass like he beat TWO people with knifes while unarmed.
Troy was brilliant. It was sad that he came in with such a downer on himself - but great to see him shrug it off.
Right?? That's not where I thought that story was going. I thought he'd be ashamed he got mugged. Or ashamed he didn't stand up for himself. Dude took on a 2v1 then whooped them so hard he felt bad about it. Mad respect, he deserves to feel proud.
I know right, I am proud of Troy!
"Do people who provoke raw survival instincts deserve any place in your life?" Perfect.
immediately clicked... i said for years, especially as i grew up, that "there's just something wrong with me" or "i'm just fucked up" or "i'm just inherently not good". i'm always full of shame. my mother asks me why i become guilty rather than grateful when she tells me what my parents do for me and their sacrifice. i feel grateful, but i also feel deeply unworthy of what is given to me. i'm thankful to people who help me but i also fear their disappointment in me because fundamentally i feel that i am not good. that i'll mess up and make them see me as selfish, irresponsible, spoiled, or lazy. i've had almost all of that which you listed as a result of consistent shame - depression and anxiety, EDs, self harm, suicidal thoughts, and substance abuse. i'm much better than i used to be but i still struggle with anxiety, depression, self harm and alcoholic tendencies. i also put myself through hell sleeping with men (i'm queer) because i was horribly desperate for the validation their lust provided. i've always felt ugly, wrong, selfish, emotionally clumsy, bad, a burden, etc. it ruined my ability to make friends as a young person and led to isolation. every time i faced rejection it validated this sense of me being fundamentally lesser than others. i even believed for years that i had to be better than everyone else to be worthy of love, that others could be imperfect because they were inherently better, but because there was something wrong with me i had to do everything in my power to prove myself worthy. it's a painful journey to get better, and while i don't necessarily believe that i'm lesser anymore, i still feel that fear often. i really want a therapist so i can get help healing but it's so hard to find one, and harder to find a good one. a therapist years ago told me getting a boyfriend would help heal my childhood sexual abuse trauma (and he knew i was queer). i naively followed him. thats whats triggered one of the worst times of my life, when i let myself be used by any man who wanted me because it made me feel "good enough" for a moment. it was majorly detrimental to my wellbeing
Yikes, that sounds horrible to go through. And man, what a terrible therapist. Extra sucks because therapists are supposed to be the people you can trust with that kind of stuff. I hear so many stories of therapists giving bad advice/wrong info, it really is hard to find a good one. My one experience with a therapist was not good either.
Therapists, I've found, are shockingly hard to find when you need help with anything other than depression or anxiety.
You need a trauma informed one. My partner did EMDR therapy and that seemed to have benefits while very little else did. It might be hard to find one, but if you do it will be worth it. Finding some community with other people struggling would likely help as well.
There's nothing wrong with you, there's no cause for shame. Even if everyone on the planet rejected you, they'd be wrong. We all deserve happiness and we all deserve to exist. That means you, unconditionally, deserve happiness and a space to exist as your authentic self. I know that probably doesn't help very much, but I truly hope it continues to improve and you find self acceptance and happiness
Its all about the stories you tell to yourself and others on the daily. Listen to your thoughts, are they yours or just a repeat of voices past? Are you really a bad person or is it just a story you told yourself then acted like it was true. Optical illusion illustrates how easy it is to trick ourselves... instead of the crushing shame of looking in the mirror... now I look in my eyes and smile because I want to experience every moment of life to its fullest. Because I'm grateful for the body that brought me through so many wild adventures. Life is just stories, make yours a good one. 💖
I feel so identified with this. It hit me like a truck.
What a story, very like mine but not. Go to your gp they will get you a councellor for six weeks free in England. 🙏
A perfect example of malignant shame is the idea of "original sin" found in certain religions.
Absolutely right. It's the invention of Paul, Augustine and others with no basis at all in the Jewish bible. A very lucrative extortion racket: 'you have something awful inside you since you were conceived. Don't worry: we can sell you the solution'. And it pays off: look at cathedrals.
I understand (thanks to Friendly Atheist channel) that Eve and then Adam were accused of sinning but of course god had never explained anything (or acted logically), so no wonder the 2 innocents did "wrong things". Worse, Sky Daddy promises great love but is unable to forgive even sight errors and dishes out awful punishments. Also, he loves grilled meat (and so do I, the more fat the better). Why god needs to eat, needs a temple, needs gold, needs to be worshiped, for any reason becomes terribly jealous and murderous (has killed far more people than the Devil has)... who knows? But off course it's not his fault at all...
This one is even more pervasive since virtually nothing can be done to make amends or fix the damage.
Hmmm, politics and science have become hyper-religion then!
@@f145hr3831jr Yes, exactly how all narcists and psychopaths operate, never enough, in or out of religion.
Love how TheraminTress gives NO free passes! Mega-shaming in fake science and politics Cancel CULTure.
I think this is the reason I prefer to be completely alone. No friends, no close relatives (my twin and i barely talk but do have a good relationship and for twins that's insanely rare), no relationship or partners at all. I prefer alone because I was always the weird kid who loved learning. I thrived on history and knowledge but that wasn't entertaining or fun so I CONSTANTLY heard 'shut up, nobody cares.'
So now as an adult i just keep to myself. I don't have depression, luckily. I'm very emotionally stable and I'm working on bettering things that do trigger my 'feels.' I'm trying to be more comfortable around people, to feel safe to talk to and explain things to them. I've noticed that's insanely hard to do with women but men are easy to get along with. I kind of hate that. However, I am trying.
Definitely can relate✅️
Will you marry me
THIS 🙌🏻
I’ll bet a lot more people in this world than you think would love to talk with you about the topics you love.
@@CoperXYZ I haven't found anyone yet.
Once I allowed myself to be angry and to resist being shamed constantly, I have had to struggle with being defensive. Protecting myself is my top priority, and it has cost me friends and family, but it has brought me so much peace as well. This session, your tone of voice, and the pace of your lesson feels so intimate. Thank you, thank you, thank you again for helping me to feel less shame for being so self-protective.
Same here Arlene.
No one can heal while staying with abusers. You do what is best for you. I hope one day we can find people who won't shame us for no reason and can share our time being ourselves.
Yeah, get mad! Abusers rely on their victims to stay timid and weak, constantly poisoning them with ideologies talked about in the video. One of the best ways to get them out of your life is, like you said, defend yourself! Your beliefs matter too, don’t let peer pressure sway you from a viewpoint
This is something I still struggle with daily. I'm disabled and have to rely on a lot of people to help me move and cook and clean because the pain is just too great. The feeling that I'm inherently wrong and worthless is really hard to shake, even when I'm surrounded by those I love. There are good and bad days- and on the good days I remind myself that even if I saw a crumpled, spit on, and dirty 20 dollar bill on the ground...it still has a worth of 20 dollars, despite what it's been through. Why are humans any different?
Don't give up, guys. You all have worth. You all matter- even if you don't think you do. There *is* a tomorrow, and we'll be ecstatic to see you then, because it means you won a battle.
That 20 compounds into 40, then 60, 80, etc if you give yourself that worth! Some may say you're learning new skills to compensate but I say who cares!!
What a gift you give when your disability gives others the chance to do something good. You give people the chance to feel helpful, valuable and needed. A gift isn't a gift without someone to give it to. When I give someone a gift, i thank them for being the recipient. You just do you. Let others do them. 💖
You clearly have value - your loved ones know that you're worth helping. Sometimes others have a much clearer view than we do, please try to trust them on this 😊
Top tier comment. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and experience
had an awesome youth pastor talk about this concept once, how as humans we have intrinsic worth, and nothing we've done or that has been done to us can change that. hearing people's awful faith stories on here really makes me grateful for my past youth group experience.
"As Ruth noted, it's the role of traditions to serve the people who perform them -- not the role of people to serve traditions."
DAMN! That might be one of my personal quotes of the year.
And when those traditions don't serve you, it's time to stop performing them.
Except that's wrong. Read Guenon and Evola.
@@Kazmistrz1993 Evola the bumbling race-law "superfascist"? lol
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:29 😓 Shame is a common emotion experienced by abuse survivors and can be challenging to discuss. It's defined as discomfort due to personal shortcomings.
02:15 🤔 Shame and guilt, although related, have fundamental differences. Guilt involves negative evaluation of specific actions, while shame involves a negative evaluation of the self.
03:19 😡 Shame is often associated with defensive anger and aggression, sometimes directed inward, while guilt is unrelated to anger and leads to more constructive behaviors like apologies and reparations.
04:22 😨 Susceptibility to shame is linked to psychological symptoms and disorders, including depression, anxiety, PTSD, eating disorders, substance abuse, self-harming, and suicidal behavior.
05:26 🎯 Abusers often instill susceptibility to shame in their targets from an early age, creating toxic or malignant shame that affects thoughts, actions, and experiences.
08:46 🤔 Targets of abuse commonly feel shame for allowing abuse to happen, even when they were powerless, and for being part of abusive groups or for hiding from abusers.
09:50 🔄 Coping techniques used by shame-bound individuals can lead to a self-reinforcing cycle of shame, as shame provokes the coping behavior, which in turn leads to more shame.
11:26 🛡️ Overcoming shame begins with recognizing that these coping behaviors are survival mechanisms and that individuals should not blame themselves for trying to survive.
14:49 💭 Retraining the brain and distancing oneself from internalized critical voices is crucial to overcoming misguided private shame.
19:18 🧠 Thinking critically for oneself and developing rational judgments about what's acceptable can help individuals let go of private shame.
21:40 🗣️ Preparing to face hardwired social instincts, such as submission to group disapproval, can help individuals resist public shaming and confidently stand their ground.
23:16 😲 Public shaming often occurs when individuals deviate from their group's norms, leading to withdrawal, appeasement, and nonverbal displays of subordination as instinctive responses.
25:26 🩳 Ruth and Virgil's experiences illustrate how public shaming can occur within religious or family communities when individuals challenge norms or reveal abuse.
27:07 🚫 Overcoming shame often involves cutting ties with abusive family members, recognizing that shame is imposed unjustly, and not attending events where one faces humiliation.
27:39 🌍 Shaming can reveal the false moralization of non-moral issues in communities and families, exposing the need for critical thinking.
28:38 🚪 Families invested in preserving illusions may not prioritize the welfare of abused individuals.
29:11 💥 Abusive families may create no-win situations and thrive on drama.
30:16 🧐 Public shaming incidents can wake people up to abusive dynamics within groups.
31:26 👥 Individuals within a shaming group may exhibit different behaviors, including rage, sadism, contempt, or ignorance.
32:34 🧠 Retraining the brain to overcome shame takes time, and finding supportive communities can aid in developing healthy thinking habits.
33:03 🤝 Beware of superficial acceptance from family members who still communicate disapproval indirectly, as it can be a form of "shaming by stealth."
"Cant see forest for trees"
My mother always said (infront of guests, relatives, regularly) that she didn't want to give birth to me. My siblings poured in - that since my birth all good things like treats, family trips , chocolates etc have stopped - it was my fault. My father , well he barely ever spoke to me as long as he lived. Much more continued....
I felt shame as if it was my fault.
Now i know, i understand. Thank you
I have realised my birth was a stress for my family because they immigrated to a worse country than they had been in. Since then I've been scapegoated. I have lived with exhaustion and shame. Took me a long time to realise it was simply that I was born.
I hope, you too recover and thrive
Wow! As an ex Muslim this hit home hard. In Islamic communities, it is very common for the community to do its own 'policing' and shame people into submission, after all, submission is the core tennet in Islam.
Excellent video, one of your best yet!
TIL liberal America and Muslim fundamentalists have lots in common
Same in Russian orthodox religion
It’s the culture not religion my opinion
@@jgalt5002 it's most definitely the religion my friend
@@jgalt5002 ex-muslim from europe, completely diff culture and i can confirm it's definitely the religion
This is probably the most important and helpful video you've made to me. I'll definitely be coming back to this one when things get rough, at least until I can find a therapist and figure out how to see them in a way that isn't going to exacerbate the abuse from my family. Thank you. And I hope your back continues its trend towards healing.
Something I don’t think is acknowledged enough is how even Internet communities or Fandoms can have this environment that encourages shame. I personally have been harassed, attacked, and ostracized for things that are so trivial. Because of it, I have spent years thinking there has to be a reason why people have treated me that way- that the problem must be with me. It is hard to rationalize why things happen because of irrational people… and alot of it just resulted in me hating myself immensely. I even have found myself on multiple occasions wishing I could just grovel at strangers feet asking what I did wrong because I felt such intense shame and self hatred for something I didn’t even understand?
Social media in its current state doesn’t make this much better… I won’t lie, I feel burnt out trying to juggle so many things and try to improve myself that in turn its like I am going backwards. This stuff is difficult. I’m just hoping I can get rid of alot of this shame- it feels miserable.. for now though, this video has made me feel a bit better.
now i got tumblr flashbacks, ah the terror.. yes it's sad some of us searching for friends online only meet the worst kind of people, it's bad luck
Fandoms can, unfortunately, become intensely toxic at times. And social media is a place where people dump their toxicity onto other people. Hang in there. You're not alone in what you're feeling.
Thats true, nowadays people online will shame you just because you liked something that they don't. I hope it gets better for you.
Been there. Between the hate groups, ragebaiting news articles that bring out controversial topics and a lot of triggered angry people, it's really easy to get sucked into this void of fire and hate and ask yourself what did you do or say so wrong that these people are so angry at you. And because there's like an infinite supply of them, there's no end.
Best to avoid those places like the plague, and either stick to real life or online places where the vibes are overwhelmingly more positive.
Log off ffs
"not wanting to lose the person, family members make a superficial show of acceptance, but continue to communicate their discomfort and disapproval in indirect ways"
Well, that hits close to home.
This video is quite amazing
"With little power comes little responsibility."
Somewhere, Peter Parker is laughing his web-head off at that gem of wisdom: it's so painfully true.
I've dealt with malignant shame from my own family, particularly in being incessantly compared with my older sibling. My parents would say things like: _"Why can't you be more like your brother?"_
It didn't matter what it was: Grades, athletics, friendships; I'd be judged based on the successes of my sibling. And when I failed to reach his overachieving standard, they insinuated that I "squandered my potential". It took me a long time to get over that implicit shame, but I managed.
Very hard work. Hugs ❤
Skill issue tbh
As that older sibling, believe me, there's a lot of pressure on us too.
That really sucks man
One of my good friend is autistic. She is still more socially functional than me, a person with CPTSD (yet not autism). Years of gaslighting, shaming, emotional violence turned me into a person I'm deeply ashamed of... . I am scare people will figure out I don't know what 'normal' is and how to deal with 'normal' people :-/ . I was raised like Paweł, blamed for all the family problems : I was shunned for every attempt to solve family problems, because...duh. My solution involved actions by my parents. Aaaand they had NO WILL to do anything. So they let things be bad, more with time expecting me to take responsibility for their bad health, financial struggles etc. WHILE their years and years of emotional abuse ruined my health and made me being unemployable in a result. I do what I can. I learn, I watch YT videos about psychology, I used whatever tools I could and they helped me to gain awareness. At least I know I am not insane (as my father claims). I know I was abused. I take responsibility for my decissions. And I am scared I have no "space" to fully recover, regain strength, become able to live a normal life.
hoping for the best for you. I'm in a somewhat similar situation and I know it's difficult. you're very strong but it's also okay to feel weak
Im learning how to be "normal" myself. I'm thankful for the peace I have in my dwellings to figure it out, lol I'm grateful for what I have
You have more strength than you know! And its not fair that you will have to use all of that strength to find a way make a space for yourself to heal but you can do it. You deserve it.
"Many targets feel ashamed of some of the maladaptive coping techniques.... self-harming, participating in risky sexual encounters, which sometimes go much further than planned. Because the coping technique is in itself a source of shame, it can lead to a self-reinforcing cycle. Shame provokes the coping mechanism, which in turn provokes more shame."
What's problematic for me is that my shame is mixed with justifiable guilt. While many of the negative beliefs I hold about myself were internalised from being shamed, I've also done things which were genuinely awful, and I think I deserve to feel guilty about them. But where can the line be drawn on personal responsibility? Should one feel guilt for having an addiction, for example? Technically, they're the one "choosing" to live that way, but it sure doesn't feel like a choice when you're going through it. Or having temperamental problems, like sudden, unexpected anger outbursts? Not to mention that memories from my childhood are very fuzzy... Was I spoiled as a kid, and that's why I have such poor impulse control? Or was I punished harshly and excessively, and that's why I feel a constant anxiety about upsetting others? I have some hazy memories which imply the former, some hazy memories which imply the latter. None of it feels as clear-cut as the examples in this video...
You have to remember that the examples in these videos are given only to deliver a specific point, which is why they're so clear cut so the audience can understand the idea being presented. Real life experiences are often much messier than that (even if the examples given are also authentic life experiences) with many factors involved, so it is pretty much expected you can't fit your experience entirely into the ideas and analysis presented in the video.
I am not a professional and just an ordinary person, so I will only offer my thoughts on the matter rather than any credible advice.
I think it's important to understand the function of the guilt one is feeling, what purpose is it serving? Every emotion in humans has some function to serve, even if it's often misguided which ends up being detrimental. This is something that can be pondered on. Guilt is kind of like a psychological tool, and like any tool it isn't inherently good or bad, it's more important how it is being used, which can either be productive (to recognize you did something deemed wrong and then use the guilt as a tool to keep you from repeating the same or similar actions) or destructive (you use it to torture yourself for something you have done or felt, invalidating your own experience and the circumstances that led to said actions/feelings, this could be to satisfy some internal moral compass or to satisfy some internalized idea like you are not worthy of forgiveness or you deserve nothing but the guilt and contempt you are feeling just to name some generic examples). It could be useful to ask oneself, what am I (consciously or unconsciously) trying to acheive by feeling guilt? That could help as good first step into finding a way to either repurpose the guilt so it is more constructive rather than destructive or simply putting down the tool as it might not even bebnecessary to utilize anymore.
@@ThatCrazyKid0007 I'm not a professional either but I agree: these are stories TheraminTrees has crafted to best illustrate a point. They can be accurate depictions of real life, but whenever we tell a story we're choosing how to tell it - what framing, what message we want to emphasise, etc.. Next time you hear someone talk about a story from their childhood or past it can help to look at it this way. Why is this person telling this story? How do their aims affect the way they tell the story? Do they emphasise elements or cut out elements to make a point or to shorten the story for time? People understand and learn very well through story, it's our natural language as creative creatures trying to understand complex thoughts. And at the same time they can only tell so much.
Life is very messy in a way that stories just aren't by nature of their telling. My parent says they can't remember their childhood probably due to trauma but why dwell on it if they're happy now. I don't agree with this, as such, but I also respect their decision since they are pretty happy and don't cause harm to themselves or others. We aren't our childhoods, anyway. We are affected by our environments but we are most influenced by the impact they leave on us. Siblings in the same environment may react differently, for instance. My sibling felt like our parent was cool and wanted to get to know them better but had hurt around them not being around much. I simply figured they were OK but mostly a stranger to me, so perhaps I was in a better place to get to know them better later in life. I don't resent my parents for how I was raised, but at the same time I don't expect them to provide things they historically have not provided. So I don't know - kids who were spoilt can react in very different ways and so grow up very differently to each other.
I have been paranoid/anxious about doing things wrong or hurting others for as long as I can remember and only a few years ago my sibling mentioned that that might be because when messing around they would blame things on the younger siblings. So it could be due to that, who knows? In general seeing my siblings get in trouble or argue with my parents perhaps combined with my nature and (at the time undiagnosed) adhd and asd could have caused the same anxiety.
But yes I have rambled somewhat. I agree with guilt being a tool - shame doesn't work for me at all and even guilt rarely does. Instead I think about what I would like for the future and try to see how to get there. People often learn best in a lasting way through enjoyment and happiness and in a safe environment according to what research I've seen - so I try to appeal to that in me.
Bojack horseman moment
Sopranos moment
i 100% relate, honestly this may have been one of the most relatable comments ive ever seen, in my case ive done things that should be shamed, but ive realised some things ive doe have either been shamed to harshly or have been incorrectly shamed from the start, i think its maynly about seeing how complex people are, the people who shame you are just people, they can shame you rightfully or wrongfully, which is something you can also do to them and yourself, i think the beast thing in these kinds of situations is to examine each thing diferently and come to a conclusion specifically for this situation
I'm in a Facebook group for gay men and the level of self-shame is through the roof. Some of it is based on religious trauma, but some are simply internalizing homophobia and feel shame about who they are as gay men. Internalized shame is insidious. Shared this on that group as well as on Recovering from Religion.
Homophobia expresses itself on so many scales doesn't it - from the overt attacks to a multitude of subtle and not-so-subtle avoidances. The levels of shame some of us learn to carry would kill a beginner. Peace and strength to your group.
I would just like you to remember that you're more than just your sexuality. Also remember that Christ did kiss an inquisitor on the lips. Religion at the end of the day is also a set of beliefs that unfortunately humans bend them as they wish. It's so unfortunate that thing that was used to help humanity was used to curse it as well.
I just hope you have an amazing time.
What do you mean by religious trauma?
@@kimalonzo3363 trauma caused by religion probably
@@kimalonzo3363 trauma…caused by religion?? i guess to be more precise it’s less about the religion and more about people who hurt and abuse others in the name of religion. also in the abrahamic religions from what i know they aren’t supportive of the lgbtq which people will take and use to harass queer ppl
"With little power, comes little responsibility." That hit me. I'm currently healing from the pervasive feeling of powerlessness due to the abuse I experienced. And I've been aware that I am processing out a ton of shame for things that were never my fault. Saying affirmations to myself like, "I am not responsible for the darkness/evil of my abusers." And yet it hasn't all the way penetrated into my subconscious. It's getting there, but it's a slow process. I've found that having my intuitive healing journey reinforced by videos like this is really helpful to move the process forward. Thank you for this content!
I experienced a sort of variation on “enduring the abuse of others.” I’ve always had a positive relationship with my mother, but one thing she did very early on that I think was damaging was talk shit about other people in front of me. sometimes acquaintances, sometimes complete strangers on the street. in particular she would often talk about how intellectually inferior they were, but there were also times when she’d point some complete stranger out to me and just say they were fat, poorly dressed, etc. sometimes in an almost gleeful tone.she would never in a million years have accused me of any of those things; in fact she praised me for being smarter and fitter and better behaved than other children. but I developed a sense that there was always someone watching and judging from the shadows, and it made me paranoid about how I was perceived by others; convinced that any misstep I made would be immediately obvious to everyone around me.
my mother also rarely forbid me from doing things or shut down my contributions entirely, but would react with disappointment when I failed to get on her level intellectually (an impossible standard for a 4-6 year old). one of my earliest memories of shame was my mother’s disappointment about my interest in Barbie dolls. my best friend had about twenty and I wanted some of my own, but my mother had a feminist distaste for them. I was terrified to ask for one, tried to go sideways around her and ask my grandpa instead, but obviously she found out. I understand and even agree with her viewpoint now, but at the time I was too young to understand. I just wanted a pretty doll. I developed a neurosis about asking for toys and books because I was afraid my mother would think they were silly; she’d almost always let me have them but radiate disapproval the entire time. she did this less and less as I got older, probably because she became more mellow about her own insecurities and made peace with her childhood trauma, but social interactions continued to reinforce the sense of shame and judgment for me. I have a very hard time with it to this day.
Getting upset over a child's preference in toys is beyond inappropriate.
It seems like some kind of mental complex had to be going on over gender politics. A responsible parent would explain in child-friendly terms why other toys are better, not force the kid to live in fear of outrage
Girl, I want you to go out and buy yourself the Barbie dolls you always wanted. I don’t care if you’re 100 years old, Barbie is awesome. I don’t think she deserves any of the hate she gets.
Jesus mom, it's just a fucking toy.
Oh my god thank you for writing your comment because it helped me realize this was how my dad was like growing up as well. He would disapprove of certain hobbies like dancing and it made me feel like I could never do those things. He also judged me for academics and choosing to go to a 'bad' high school when I was only 10. I am still so afraid of other people judging me for my interests and the things I like which has affected me making friends my whole life.
I remember I was looking at a nice pair of sunglasses online. I wasn’t going to buy them,I just thought they were nice to look at. My mom immediately said “Don’t be materialistic.” Like why does she always have to find a way to shoot down things that I enjoy? It is okay to like nice things! Its not like I am recklessly spending my money on stuff…
Wish I had you as a therapist when I was 10. You'd have saved me 60 years of self-doubt.
Hugs
Your videos are frequently just what I needed to hear in my life. As someone with Bipolar the guilt I feel for the behavior I displayed while sick, while effective in leading me to a more healthy lifestyle to prevent another episode. Has transformed over into maladaptive shame. But if I am doing everything I can to remain healthy, the shame serves no purpose. Ill have to learn this with time.
It sounds like your story is similar to mine. Just before I turned 21 I had a very bad manic episode which had my family thinking I was demon-possessed while I alternated between thinking I was Jesus and the devil and the whole thing just got really, really ugly. I was in and out of psych wards for a few months and then on meds for a couple years.
It took a very long time for me to even begin getting over the shame of having lost my mind and behaved so irrationally. Then I had to deal with my anger toward my family who in my opinion exacerbated the episode with a 3 week long exorcism which involved restraining me, yelling at me, and burning things of mine that they had decided were 'demonic'.
I don't know where you're at religiously, but one of the things that did help me finally put this in the past was the realization that my childhood faith had essentially primed my brain for mania and delusions. Obviously there are some religious people who remain mentally healthy their whole lives, but for someone like me who felt terrible guilt and fear of hell growing up- who wanted to make absolutely sure that I was a "true believer" and wanted to experience God in a tangible sense... it was a very toxic combination of mental factors.
So now that I've put that magical thinking to rest, I'm able to move on with the confidence that I won't let it happen again. It's been 5 years at this point and I'm still vigilant. I'm able to recognize when I start to "spiral" mentally and I make sure to just take some time for myself to relax. It's nice to be able to relax without feeling guilty, as well- religion criminalizes a lot of completely harmless behavior in that regard. (coughmasturbatingcough)
I hope you're able to get back into the sunlight. I know you'll reach it if you just keep moving forward.
@@Phoenix0F8 Thanks for the thoughtful post, Im glad you have found ways to cope effectively and move forward in a healthy way. I had frequent and reoccurent nightmares of hell growing up, to the point where it was the only reason I believed. Now, I no longer believe and with losing the faith the nightmares of hell went away.
Be sure to pass along these videos to those who showed you support and understanding. 😊
@@nickman9639 Those nightmares were some of the worst, along with nightmares about the rapture taking away your loved ones and leaving you to face the end of the world alone. Glad you were able to get out of that cycle.
The metaphor of the self-hunting fox is very powerful. Been that fox for years.
i’ve struggled with shame so much growing up, especially put on me as a trans person and from the school system as someone who wouldn’t conform. i’ve been searching for answers, unable to distinguish my own values from what others believe is right or wrong. in a lot of ways, it’s consumed me. i truly can’t thank you enough for this video. thank you for guiding me onto my own path💖💖💖
I felt a deep sense of not deserving good things. My dad made sure of it, and I'm sure that he also felt that pretty deeply. Idk where this fits with shame, but it feels like a type of shame. Especially because this would lead me to lower my expectations, and desires to the point that I haven't reached for quite as much as, deep down, I truly want.
definitely a shame:( I'm sorry you went through that.
Keep on being shameless in exposing manipulation, abuse, and dogma. Long live TheraminTrees! 💯
“Do people who provoke only our survival instincts deserve a place in our lives?” Thanks! This is very helpful to me.
"It wasn't my responsibility." "Preserving illusions." "No win double bind... Desperate for drama..." "Don't talk about that part of you..." "Maybe I don't belong here."
I couldn't put a name to what I've been dealing with/feeling. I feel a weight lifting as I listened. I am excited to talk with my own therapist to get to the root of my shame and overcome it. I am tired of being the fox. I want to stop playing games. I want to create my own safe place.
"I am tired of being the fox." Hit something deep in me.
I appreciate you sharing this and I hope you are well ❤
@@ChristinaFromCZcams Still talking with a therapist and doing much better than I was a year ago. I pinky promise when you address this in a safe environment and implement ways to change the language you use to speak to yourself--- you will make progress in overcoming.
It is definitely a shift in mindset, giving yourself grace, and going at you're own pace. Also, forgiving yourself is a big part of it too!
I hope I am an example of "It does it better." 💙 So you won't always be the fox! 🫂 I believe in you!
I really appreciate this video. Shame is one of the primary reasons why I procrastinate which in turn leads to more shame until I end up spending hours every day trying to calm my anxiety from shame. In turn, I get little sleep and push aside social interaction partially because I need time to catch up on work but also because I feel like I don't deserve these things when I'm not getting my work done. I've been working on this, but it can be difficult to explain to people what's going on, so it really helps to have someone put it into words. Thank you.
100% me. We'll get there, though. Slowly but surely. Awareness is the first step and we took it ^^
hello, high school me
@@lanturn3239 I'm assuming that means you got over it after high school. If so I'm really glad to hear it! It's taking me a bit longer but I'm sure I'll get there eventually.
@@nahometesfay1112 not exactly over it, but I understood better what was going on and had more tools to combat it. things that are so ingrained don't just go away in an instant, so it's still something I'm working on, but I think high school was the peak since I didn't even understand what was wrong and I was just stuck.
@@lanturn3239 I get it. Late high school early college was the peak for me as well. The progress is real though.
TheraminTrees is one of a few channels that i always keep coming back to listen to its content again and again, thanks for everything and please keep it coming. Love and respect.
Thank Hussein. Peace.
Are you kidding me?
No Joke @theraminTrees talks me to sleep almost every night. He has his own playlist and i can tell how long I've been asleep based on where I am on that list
-Matter didn’t create anti matter
-Anti matter didn’t create matter
(Both of them were present at the time of big bang)
-Both of them didn’t create themselves.
-Both of them came from an unimaginable source, that unimaginable source created matter and antimatter (everything) thats why it is known as “the creator” of everything.
------
- that unimaginable source/creator has created sin and virtue which are opposite to each other,
- logic says every action has its own reaction, so the reaction of sin must be different than the reaction of virtue,
- the creator has created prophets to let us know about each and every detail of sin and virtue, also about their reactions,
Thank you
@@nathanmckenzie904
I did the same for a quite time, he's so calming.
@@dott8045 What does this have to do with the original comment, or the video for that matter?
I feel almost constant shame.
It’s always in the back of my head, in all my social interactions. Everyone feels like they’re better off and doing better than me.
I’m not really jealous of people who are richer or more successful- when I see an individual who’s well settled mentally and and has a confident inner voice, then I’m jealous coz I always wished I was like that. Whenever I mess up I hear my parents voice going ‘why didn’t you think’ - and feel ashamed the rest of the day or days even. When I make a mistake or wrong I can’t handle it and feel supremely embarrassed. I want to just hide and not talk to anyone. Even if people are nice and friendly to me I can’t make eye contact, I feel I’m a screw up and not worth it .
I'm sorry you feel like that. I'm pretty much in the same boat, depression caused by shame since I remembered being abused 43 years ago. Never told anyone until last year when things got really bad. And I had to go into hospital. Parents recently accused me of having depression to 'punish' them for not protecting me from my abuser. Sure, like I would willingly do this to myself out of spite?😢
27:58 "Traditions serve the people performing them. No the role of people to serve traditions"
Another great insight!
I was a heroin addict for 13 years, on hard drugs for 18 years. I struggle with so much shame. Then my natural self is extremely joyful and exuberant, I get shamed for that and feel I can't be my true self, but also can't numb the way I used to. I hate the things I did during those years, and I ruminate on those experiences and get absorbed in my shame. When u talked about Pavel, who used humor to cope, saying he was bad luck, I literally call myself bad luck lillie. I was felt responsible for the family problems as a kid too. You are so insightful. I'm sharing your video with my treatment group.
There's no shame in having struggled with addictions. Addictions are a form of escapism and finding something we lack in our lives. The problem is not that you had to use drugs, the problem was what were you trying to escape from or search for, that only a drug seemed to fulfill that. And invariably this comes from childhood.
Watch stuff from Gabor Mate he talks a lot about this, might help you.
Beautiful message, and best wishes on your continued recovery! And oh man I relate to that so much, thinking about the things I did in active addiction and just being sucked into this bottomless pit of guilt, regret, and shame.
“We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it…” The Big Book goes on to intimate, “No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others.
Just shed some tears reading your bad luck Lillie…hearing my grandparents “lovingly” call me “the master of disaster” my entire growing up. Even going so far as whenever I would blunder in their perception they’d say “well you’ve always been the master”
@@kayloiio I try to not use my dark humor on others now, because sometimes “jokes” can really impact a person
The sad reality is that people who commit crimes often don't feel ashamed whereas people who reflect and retrospect and improve themselves, try to be ethical and moral are often the ones most affected by abusive shame.
Even people who commit crimes shouldn’t be shamed. If our goal is improving society, we should address the problems that lead to crime instead of shaming people who are already being victimized by society.
A conscience. Yes, that does seem to be a barrier to commit crimes, but it's nothing religion can't fix. Yahweh and Allah both gladly tell you that you fuck up no matter what you do, so why even try? They also have the "cure" that rids you of your conscience: they'll forgive you if you but worship them and only them, and definitely not the other made up narcissist, or you'll go to hell, or be destroyed forever while your family who did turn their backs on integrity, honesty, and humanity happily sing songs of praise to their narcissist in some sort of paradise where everyone is welcome except those who worship wrong or don't even worship.
Oh, and don't forget to live by their rules to increase the chances they won't refuse your entry into heaven. Be a bigot, be conservative, remember that the only way to fix things is to pray to your favourite narcissist, don't forget to pretend you're open and progressive and that you don't discriminate people, and so on and so forth.
@@justinwatson1510 Very true. The law in my country actually does this, despite a huge portion of our society being all for a vengeance system like the US has. I guess, not all of us want less crime; some people just want to see the world burn and those who do wrong in the eyes of hard working family people first, of course, because they deserve vengeance more than anyone. I said vengeance instead of justice again, didn't I. Ah well, when they're not the same thing, I'll be able to get it right.
@@justinwatson1510 I can't imagine what we as a society could do to prevent Putin and his co from establishing a fascist regime and raging war against Ukraine.
I've noticed, observing some young children (5 or 6) that have some emotional struggles, that these kids get very defensive when they're upset. They attack themselves but they also attack the people around them. They immediately default to blaming someone for causing their emotions which led to a behavior that isn't socially acceptable. They can't turn the defensive reaction onto themselves, they have to believe the cause is external. They also downplay the consequences of their actions "fixing that will only take "x" and that's not even a big deal"
There's some process by which these kids, through highly emotional reasoning, start developing these patterns of thought early in life. Pushing responsibility out to some preceding incident, downplaying harm, being defensive and unable to self reflect.
I'm not sure shame would help, in fact I suspect shame is a primary driver for those reactions.
It's okay to be angry if they hurt you. Don't misunderstand. There's pragmatism and problem solving, then there's very real and justified indignity at someone causing you harm. They, on some level, need to be separated lest they bleed into each other and distort things on either side.
My mother used to humiliate/shame me in front of relatives and strangers when I was a child.
I was an extrovert but developed panic attack disorder (caused by social phobia) in my early 20's.
I still can't handle being the centre of attention.
I just wanted to thank you for your excellent work. It's been a huge help as I've been trying to remove myself from a lifetime in Mormonism.
The abuse ends with me. My children will be free from this.
This touched something deep in me. I have always been ashamed of every part of my existence. As a child I was constantly told I wasn't good enough. I believed that all the abuse happened because I just did not deserve a loving family. Now I'm trying to deconstruct all of the shame.
Thank you so much for the video, it helps❤
This is a masterpiece 💜
Love your videos!!!
Alexandra♥️♥️♥️
Alexandra omg
Alexandra hii
This really is. The way the animation is edited (e.g. thoughtless turns in to thought and less) really drives home the subtle thigs that can happen in someone's psyche.
This has helped me realise where the shame I could not shake came from, not because of abuse but rather because I have significant invisible disabilities for which I was shamed growing up and even in adult life. Being shamed by society for disability is so pervasive in society it is impossible to escape from even when the shame does not come from family, as the rest of society is always reinforcing the shame of difference due to disability. It helps to know what is going on though as it is possible to create ways to protect one's own self from the effects of continual shaming.
Man... I really needed this. I grew up in an extremely religious environment because my young parents at the time felt it would be good to get involved with a church if they were to have kids.
I was taught that the world is black and white. There is good and evil. Right and wrong. Sin and righteousness. As I got older I realized that is, of course, not the case. But those feelings - that I am sinning, that I am being watched by an invisible man, that there is something fundamentally wrong with me, that I will die and go to hell, those feelings never went away.
I suppose at least acknowledging these feelings is the first step. I really need to look into therapy but I am so scared to share these feelings with anyone else.
Scrupulosity?
this one in particular hits very very hard for me. my entire family would shame me for everything, from having any sexuality, to not fitting into the gender binary, to coming forward about the horrible things my parents were doing, to even just being autistic. my mere existence to them was a very visible crack in their mask of being a "perfect family". it's funny, isn't it? how those who do the most harm pin their own shame onto those they're harming most?
another excellent video, good sir. always the highlight of my day when you upload, and they always help me find another piece of myself in the aftermath of my upbringing.
I'm so sorry you went through all of that. You, nor anybody else who went through such abuses, didn't deserve a lick of it. Sadly, it sounds like we had the same family.
My mother tries hard to be better than she once was, but the damage has already been done. My father respects my need for no contact with him, but only because it's more convenient for him to accept my rejection than to be a good parent. All of this, because I was shamed so badly for being my own being, who had very different interests and self-expression since they were two generations older than me.
We deserved so much better. Especially us LGBT+ survivors. We're abused since birth, never given a safehaven by those whose sole responsibility is ensuring as much... Only to end up in a world that hates and shames us for the same albeit nonsensical reasons: Because "You're Different than We expected, and it's on You to fix that."
Not change even, 'fix.' Like it's us who's the problem, and not a society that is ruled by sadistic, greedy monsters who hoard without end, leaving the rest of us to fight amongst ourselves.
The game has been rigged since the beginning. I hope that we survivors can turn the tides, and bring forth a much kinder, more loving world. As the old world goes out kicking and screaming, perhaps we can salvage what we can from its ashes, and promise to do better.
Lots of luck & love to you and everybody else. We will be the change this planet desperately needs.
I spent a year in juvie for a "drug problem" that I didn't have but my mother did. But she was believed implicitly and I was ignored.
@@DanaTheInsane thats horrific. even you did have a problem with substance use, locking people away for it just doesnt help. it's just another case of hiding the things we see as a "stain" on society, instead of trying to just fix the underlying issues. and to go through it when you dont have one is just...such a failure on all of us as a collective to let it happen, through the constant ignorance of the opinions and experiences of those considered "too young to know what theyre talking about." i hope youre doing better now.
Is it because you're not as colorful as the other ponies? I thought friendship was magic damm it D:>
@@BBWahoo was this supposed to be funny or are you just mocking my interests?
As deeply fascinating the topics in each video are, I should also say that I find your music enthralling. There's always a disconnecting element in it-whether it's intentional dissonance or a jarring amalgamation of melodies. Incomplete, yet whole, is the feeling I get from it, like its foundations are barely keeping themselves together. I think it's brilliant.
your comment is written beautifully! that was nice read through
"We'll accept you as long as you don't talk about that part of yourself". That resonates with me a lot, because I've been dealing with misophonia for some time now and my mother simply refuses to understand how I feel when there's sounds I don't like in the house, even saying one time I should move to my dad's house if I continued acting like that. And the worst part is that when she gets angry and screams at me, I can't do anything and I feel helpless. I wanted to get that out of my chest for quite a time, so that's a very well made video, it was really insightful.
"With little power comes little responsibility" Powerful words, thank you.
Two theremintrees videos in one year! You're spoiling us!
talk about back handed compliments lmao I feel the same way
Watching a Theramin Trees video is exactly like having a rising storm suddenly pass, or the violent rocking of a boat settling to a calm sway. It's a window into a vision for a brighter future, and it's glorious. My never ending thanks to yourself, Dr Peterson and those like you who help us understand ourselves and better the world we navigate through.
I’m glad you’re all here, and healing. It takes an intelligent person to be this self aware.
I've only just recently started coming across your videos and, as a still relatively young person, I cannot express properly how grateful I am that these exist and that I've found them so early on. I'm mostly leaving this comment with the hope that it can get more people to see your videos. You're truly doing something incredible and there's no doubt in my mind that you've already helped many people learn things without going through it the hard way.
Videos like this and channels like yours really do bring out the best the best the internet can do for people. So sincerely. Thank you for doing these videos.
Over the years I've been involved with a support group for ex-Jehovah's Witnesses, I have used many of these videos to help our members discover and understand what they've been through that has led them to where they are and why they feel the way they do.
This video unlocks how the Organisation's use of social isolation - or shunning - works on those who have recently disengaged from this harmful religion.
Thank you for taking the time to provide understandable explanations for the complex issues that people encounter in their lives.
As my late father used to say: "You are worth your weight in rocking-horse poop! " Believe me... it's high praise!
@@stephanieanderson178 I read your story. That's a lot. I feel sorry for you. May you heal fully.
@@AngrenHeryn thank you
I love this channel so much, you taught me a lot about human psychology and I can't thank you enough.
I hope you are doing well, it's the eid today and Ramadan is over and I have been struggling the entire month trying to live a double life but your videos help ease my pain.
Again thank you so so much for doing the work you do.
i know the feelin bud :(
good luck mate, remember YOLO :)
Hey. Today was Eid here too. I had to go to the mosque this morning to attend the Eid prayers. I didn't join in though, I found a secluded spot not far from the crowd and stayed there until all was over. Fortunately for me, although I live in a Muslim majority country where one is pressurized to conform, I have a wife who shares my views. The month was not really hard on us because we did whatever we liked inside the confines of our home. However, we were careful not to publicly show our dissent.
I hope you are doing well. You are not alone.
@@branan6935 having support of any form can help.
I'm on the spectrum of autism and for my entire life I thought I was a good for nothing human being, I misunderstood a lot of things and people treated me like 4 year old while expecting me to function like an adult.
We don't function like "normal" people do and we have high sensitivity to things that don't bother others much.
It's very difficult for me to interact with others because of fear of rejection and shame of not being good enough, I struggle with low self-esteem issues and my autism makes it more difficult to handle social situations.
@@shaxjack4717
Living in a society like ours is hard enough for someone who does not have any hampering condition, let alone someone with autism. People in our societies do not seek to understand people as they are. They only try to quickly put a label on you, so that they can categorize you in a certain group that already exists in their mind. If you don't fit in any of them, they just call you craazy and dismiss you.
One of my parent's tools to control me was using this phrase "we're so disappointed in you!" Not in my behavior, but in the essence of me. Years of hearing this imbued me with a deep shame of not ever feeling good enough. I've become aware of it and have worked on bringing the shame into the fresh air, feeling it, challenging it and forgiving it. It has greatly reduced within me, but on occasion I'm shown that there are still remnants to excavate. Of all the emotions, I can attest that for me, shame is just the most deeply hurtful and debilitating.
You deserve to be happy
You are not broken
It's okay to seek help
Nobody is self made
We all start somewhere
You are stronger than you think
This video has come at a very important time of my life, as I've just been diagnosed with ADHD at 18. It was usually my teachers that did the abuse, that I was lazy, unwilling to do work, that the reason I wasn't doing things was that I was doing it on purpose. It made me feel so stupid, when I'd simply forget homework and I got shamed in front of my peers and outcast. I genuinely thought for a long time that it was my fault. Thank you for this video, it's informative and helps me with thoughts of worthlessness.
I was diagnosed at 18 but never found out until 28. I don’t remember my schooling either but I’m sure a core part of the shame comes from that. It gets better! Good friends will help you weather the storm.
I got another possible source of shame for you: physical disability. For me, that took the shape of accepting that I would be unfit for a relationship and, as other ventures proved far less fulfilling than I had hoped, unfit for life. Now in my late twenties, I'm left without any friends, without any experience at all regarding relationships and with no clear path forward other than a few vague plans of what I want to do once I manage to buy my own place to live.
Thank you for making this video. It has given me a lot of food for thought until my next session.
I have a similar experience, but no physical disability, just bad at sports. You know the trope of being picked last? I would be left out entirely, even if the teams were uneven. No one wanted me, even as a last resort.
I can easily attest to the same thing 😔
I understand now when people say, "This ____ changed my life." I say this because I believe this video changed my life, regardless of how "big" or "small" the change might seem to myself or others. All that inwardly-projected responsibility for the perversions of "guardians" has created in me an inner dialect of sorts, as if I downloaded my abusers' rhetoric and thinking for my own.
I can't express enough how much this resonates and, despite not feeling ready for another series of therapy sessions at this point in my life, find that these videos help me journal and parse my past traumas with the critical thinking of an informed adult, as opposed to, at the time, a scared and confused child.
Thank you.
One question I hated hearing from my therapist was that she would constantly ask me "Why do you think that's shamefull etc." It was not a problem but then she constantly started asking it. If I was talking about something bad that happened and I felt shamefull, she would ask it. She was a really great person but this got on my nerves. Only now I realize that she was just trying to show me that asking for help isn't something to be ashamed of.
(Edit: spelling mistakes)
'Why' is a volatile word in the therapy setting. Many training courses highlight how it often comes across, intentional or not, as semi-accusatory - as if the client needs to justify themselves. Students are often invited to think of other ways to express their thoughts to clients.
@@TheraminTrees That's amazing. I'm always impressed when I get to peek behind the curtain and find out how full of intentionality therapy is. I have a lot of respect for the professionals of the field because it must take so much training to be able to speak that way.
@@TheraminTreeswhat’s another way to reframe it? Also, thank you. I appreciate your content. This is amazing!