What is Divine Simplicity? With Dr. Ryan Mullins
Vložit
- čas přidán 12. 05. 2024
- Taken from: • The Doctrine of Divine...
Support Blogging Theology on Patreon:
/ bloggingtheology
Buy Me a Coffee:
www.buymeacoffee.com/blogging...
My Paypal Link:
www.paypal.com/paypalme/blogg...
Alhamdulillah for Islam, which gets rid of ALL confusion such as this contrived "divine simplicity" concept.
Today I received from Amazon "The Quran a verse translation by Bruce Lawrence and MAR Habib". Thank you Paul for recommending this translation. It is the most important book I have ever bought. so clear so smooth so powerful.
Alhamdulillah
@@BloggingTheology
Yes. Alhamdulilah.
The best translation of the Quran still remains one from Prof. Haleem.
It's an integral part of the Creed of Islam to believe that Allah has names and attributes. If you deny them, you are not Muslim as simple as that.
He doesn't have attributes
True, Divine simplicity just negates those attributes, the concept of DS states that the attributes are identical to Allah's essence but this is against the teachings of the Qur'an and sunnah. We don't believe attributes of God are identical to him, *we don't say the attribute of mercy is Allah* rather they are his attributes the salaf clearly made that distinction.
it depends what you mean by attributes. Whether you understand them as names or entities.
What "names and attributes" are you referring to? Can you clarify?
I'm not Muslim but I do believe that God Himself does indeed have attributes. However understanding God's attributes with my limitations of human knowledge is something I struggle with.
By the way, what is the "Creed of Islam" and does it come from the Quran? I'm curious.
Respectfully...
@@user-te8gj7hn4l I appreciate your clarification of "divine simplicity" according to Islam. I'm not Muslim so this concept is something I need to learn.
Respectfully...
""Whoever compares and assimilates God to something or refers to His sacred essence, has not, in reality, had Him in view. Whatever man knows to be the ground of His essence must necessarily be created. God is the Creator and Maker. Whatever depends on other than itself is caused and created. It is God alone who is only a cause (and not an effect)"
- Imam Ali ibn Abu Talib
Alhamdollillah for the simplicity of Islam! 🤍
I appreciate your honesty about Islam but so far I don't find Islam as being simple. I guess it depends on how you define the concept of "simplicity". Many people seem to define words differently. That's why I'm trying to understand some religious doctrines according to the original teachings of Jesus and what he said ( how He defined words ).
Same with the Quran. I want to understand the original meaning of various words in the Quran. Do you think such is possible? I don't know Arabic language.
Thanks...
@@johnbrzykcy3076
czcams.com/video/L86vYJglNjs/video.htmlsi=fbt_d6KHj0wsohnl
@@johnbrzykcy3076the message of Islam is simple brother. We believe there is one god, who is Allah, and no one else is worthy of worship apart from him, who is the creator and sustainer. And that he sent Muhammad ﷺ as his final messenger.
As far as getting to understand the Quran fully word for word in depth, then this is not possible without learning the Arabic language. That being said, the main message of the Quran can be understood with translations of it.
To understand the actual teachings of Islam, we use three sources: Quran, the sayings of the prophet ﷺ (Hadiths) and the explanations of the first 3 generations that came after him (salaf). Nothing has been changed every since so we have the authentic genuine teachings from when the Quran was first revealed
Divine Simplicity asserts that God is not composite. According to Ahli Sunnah, God does not have parts. Christians who defend Divine Simplicity must reject the concept of the Trinity from the beginning. It would be great to invite a Muslim scholar to discuss Divine Simplicity in detail. Ultimately, Divine Simplicity is an extension of the Contingency argument, which is often avoided in discussions.
Interesting topic!
Allah has defined His attributes, whether they like it or not it's their problem. Islam was completed, no one can change Allah's teachings, we have no need for a change, that leads to kufur. God has attributes simple and clear, to say Allah has no attributes is negating the Qur'an. Those who want to define God can do so on their own intellect, for Muslims Allah has defined Himself, His names, His attributes, what more should we look for? Denying His attributes is kufur, as simple as that.
These were the kind of arguments that lead to trinity. I believe Paul uploaded this as a follow up that other thinkers are working to further lead people astray, like in this case of simple divinity.
Whatever these So-Called thinkers think of when they are saying Allah having no attributes is utterly nonsensical.
he doesn't need them. his Dhat is ghaniy
@@mohammedhanif6780Do you believe in divine simplicity?
Listen to Azan الله أكبر الله أكبر We don’t call to prayer by saying God is simple, we call people to prayer by shouting God is greater not simpler but greater.
I want Hasan Spiker back on this channel to discuss this topic.
God have the ability to produce a description of Himself that all human can understand.
Masha Allah.
Makes sense to me
This week had the shortest and longest bt lectures.
According to Ashari and Matrudi (mainstream Aqeeda of the muslims), the attributes of Allah can only be known through revelation not by intellect, alhamdulilah.
Surah 59, Verses 22-24. Were I a scholar, I would have to attempt to break down those verses and try to formulate an argument, but I'm just rank and file. His word is the end of the argument to me.
This would necessitate undermining logic.
How? Not having attributes, is an attribute. "Just exists", or "existence", is an attribute. So you're saying, no attributes, while also stating an attribute. Ie, logical contradiction.
it's an extrinsic mental attribute not an intrinsic or entitative one
@@mohammedhanif6780 i do not understand, could you expound?
@@mohammedhanif6780 I don't understand what you meant. Can you clarify? I'm not Muslim but I still need to understand the meaning of words and concepts.
Thanks...
📌The fact that early Church fathers "did not see" the tremendous errors in the bible, they can't be trusted to talk about the Creator (we Learn about Allah through scripture and prophet teaching)
PS: I am sure many knew of these errors but fear, or job and prestige make them afraid to say what they truly believe. I bet my Life it is the case in many cases.
Oh, don't tempt me! 😂
It’s wrong to say God is simple because God is GREATER greater than simple or anything you can think of him ( الله أكبر ).
The speaker here - perhaps I did not understand his words well - mixed up a number of matters, for example the idea of simplicity and the non-occurrence of accidents in the Divine Essence.
The idea of divine simplicity or lack of composition does not mean that God does not possess attributes such as power, will, and knowledge outside of Himself, or that will is identical to power and knowledge. Rather, what is meant is that God is not composed of mental or external, synthetic parts. For example, God is All-Knowing, which does not mean that there is an attribute called knowledge that exists in itself. It is the reason for the revelation of information in the self. Rather, his self alone is sufficient for this revelation to occur. The self, in this sense, is knowledge, knower, because the attribute is not the essence, and this difference necessitates God’s need for these attributes, and need is a sign of possibility and is the opposite of necessity itself, so God is possible, not necessary.
Brother What you just described is not divine simplicity but the view of the asharites and maturities (atleast the first part). They do believe that God is not composed of external parts or anything that can be separated from him. He has attributes that are not identical to him nor are they other than him i.e his attributes are not separate from him nor are the attributes him. He has attributes that are distinct i.e his power is not his knowledge and his knowledge is not his hearing and his hearing is not his sight etc
Here we go, science of kalam xD
God is basically the source of everything, including existence. The attributes are creations as well.
I'm not Muslim but I like your comments.
That's nonsense. How can one give what it doesn't have? Just in case I can be rich give to the poor but I can still be able to take from them while not being poor and being rich.
attribute of something is not really a creation. its what define the thing. generally. a car as we know it have 4 tyres. if it have 3, or none, its not a real car or we can say its an incomplete car. if it have more, we can say it is an unusual car.
those attribute is there because the thing is there. this is an analogy of dependent things tho.
All-knowing is an atribute of the Perfect God. This attribute is there because God is there. if God lacks that attribute, he doesnt fit to be God, we can say its not the true God.
So the all-knowing attribute cant really be seperated with God and his other attribute. God did not create it, it just there inseparable from God. We just discovered God have that attribute , He didnt create it.
An attribute doesnt exist on its own.
Attribute can be said as created when we made a creation. But God isnt a creation.
I think you're not a muslim that's why you're saying the attributes are creations.
The attributes of Allah swt are not creations
Todo el diálogo de estos ponentes se funda en una caricaturización de la doctrina de la simplicidad divina. El hecho de que Dios sea absolutamente simple no implica que no tenga atributos, sino que estos se identifican con Dios mismo. No sé por qué los ponentes se complican tanto. Además, decir que Dios es compuesto es un absurdo porque supone que Dios no es auténticamente Dios.
Devine simplicity. The minhaj (Islam Iman and Ihsan)of the Salaf. Know the Hadith of Jabril
There is just one problem argument with the argument from simplicity, no evidence at all.
yeah bring a kaffir opponent of the doctrine to explain it.
Better than inserting greek philosophy into islam.
لايوجد أبسط من الإسلام من ناحية وصف الله سبحانه وتعالى
يكفي أن تفهم سورة الإخلاص 112
He kind of made my blood boil?! I mean is he truly stating an attribute that involves a measuring of Allah SBWT in terms of our limited understanding? (simplicity or complexity, simple or complex); we can only give such adjectives because we are using a judgmental intellectual process that has prior/acquired qualities in order to deduce a judgement that says the Divine is Simple, not complex? Okay, but weren't the believers instructed in the Quran "not to say falsehood 'lies' upon Allah SBWT"? I mean the only way we could pass Divine Simplicity as a fact of life. It is a Divine decree when the cause and effect of our reality is simple. For instance, touching a flame of fire will simply burn your hand / Or not studying for an exam will simply fail you the subject / Or disobeying Allah SBWT and his messenger SAW intentionally will simply consume your living in ultimate despair. I might understand this as Divine Simplicity. But we are not authorized/allowed/capable of pertaining an attribute to our Creator that we know so little about his creation. AHHHH, instead of reading Aquinas’s ‘On Being and Essence,’ I spent an hour wrapping my head around your foul speech, you see, it is simply falsehood, and may Allah forgive me for even thinking of saying such words in my head. You ached my heart. In reality, you are not simple at all; rather we both suffer from complex ignorance. May Allah forgive us and guide us all...
Makes no sense to me. If you remove all attributes you still have "God". Isn't being God an attribute?
When we say human. What do we mean by human? Human is a collection of attributes. But attributes contain each other. "Human" itself can be considered an attribute.
Irrespective of that. Quran is clear. Surah Ikhlas gives definition of Allah. Divine simplicity sounds more like defining "nothing".
I'm not Muslim but I appreciate your views and interpretations from the Islamic perspective. Thanks.
Respectfully...
Allah is Nothing.
Allah created Adam from clay and water and Adam was 60 cubits high and lived for hundreds of years and had hundreds of children who were mainly twins. The prophet Muhammad flew up to heaven and back on Buraq , a winged horse.
God cant have intrinsic properties. He can have extrinsic properties.
Divine simplicity is an attempt to .... purify God (تنزيه الله) from the common characteristics between Him and His creation. But the problem is that they fell into a logical dilemma, which is how can God exist without attributes when existence itself is an attribute!!!
don't make qiyas between Allah's existence and yours. His dhat is his existence, and his existence is his dhat.
@mohammedhanif6780 i didn't😑
How do you purify Allah? It's only by following His teachings. He said and fully explained His attributes, what else do we want? So tanzihullah is understanding these attributes and working with them. Believing Allah has no attributes is kufur.
@@ahmaduahmed8760 لا حول ولا قوة الا بالله
Who told you that I am one of them? My words were clear that they fell into a contradiction. They do, not me. I believe in all of God’s attributes and names as he told us about them.
allah has attributes as said in quran and sunnah. If you deny them, you are not Muslim
2,000 YEARS AGO... THE LORD JESUS CHRIST TOOK UP HIS SWORD FOR THE SAKE OF MANKIND ✝️
And you saying Islam spread by the sword..
Jesus' sword was His death on the cross. The ultimate example of love to annihilate hatred, sin and the curse of death.
God bless all Muslims and Christians.
how can we pray to Allah if HE is without properties or attribute?? How can we pray for HIS mercy if HE is without mercy as HIS attribute?? Even Prophet Muhammad pray for mercy to Allah more than 70 times in a day! This is just stupid arguments!
Meh, just sophistry tbh!
ryan mullin poorly explained doctrine.. NO proponent of DS says that god cannot have conceptual distinctions rather true real distinction are denied only..
Well he explained how it's understand in literature that goes both ways conceptual and true real distinction.
And do you believe in divine simplicity?
@@Sakib-ss4 There is a crucial distinction between a real distinction & conceptual distinction.. They cannot be used interchangeably..
@@islamicmessage2419 Actually this is what classical theism based upon you can't even make conceptual distinctions because according to them this is somehow lead them to ontological distinction that you can't have that and of course i disagree with them because i believe god have distinct attribute so i understand what you mean.
@@Sakib-ss4 where have you read that God cannot be attributed with conceptual distinctions and also that conceptual distinctions leads to ontological distinctions?
@@islamicmessage2419 Of course i believe conceptual distinction based on real distinct attribute that god have but i just showing their position according to them if their have conceptual distinction that somehow it's ontological distinction in a sense apart from his essence this is what i'm disagree.
And do you believe in divine simplicity?