How Keri Smith ESCAPED the Woke Cult | Peter Boghossian & Keri Smith
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2024
- Keri Smith says she was in a cult for twenty years. It wasn’t NXIVM, Peoples Temple, or Heaven’s Gate, but something more widespread and insidious. Keri was a self-described Social Justice Warrior.
Peter Boghossian talks to Keri about how Women’s Studies classes at Duke University provided the gateway to her conversion through new words, new definitions, and exposure to oft-repeated axioms. Keri describes her former self as a “woke evangelist,” spreading newfound truths about the patriarchy and righteous censorship. She became a Wikipedia editor to “correct history” and limited her media consumption to news, books, and speakers approved by the ideology.
Keri lost friends and job opportunities when she left the Social Justice tribe, but she emerged with valuable experience. She shares advice about how to help others obtain freedom from illiberal dogma. Spoiler Alert: Facts aren’t enough to break the spell.
Keri Smith is the host of Deprogrammed with Keri Smith where she interviews notable thinkers like Helen Pluckrose, James Lindsay, William Allen, Samuel Sey, Charles Murray, Barbara Kay, and Dr. Bret Weinstein You can find her writing in Human Events, Fee.org, and The Dissenters Project, a collection of essays on the price of dissent in the current cultural climate. Keri has been a guest on many podcasts including Timcast, Nerdrotic, Triggernometry, and Real Talk with Zuby. She recently hosted Mindsfest 2023 in Austin, Texas.
Deprogrammed with Keri Smith: @RealKeriSmith / rss.com/podcasts/kerismith/
Chapters
0:00 Intro
2:17 Keri's previous beliefs
9:05 How Keri escaped Social Justice Ideology
18:03 Wikipedia editing
21:05 How Keri is different now
26:34 How to "wake the woke" on a mass scale
40:25 Keri role-plays as her former woke self (& debrief)
47:10 Commonalities of people who escape woke
51:42 Keri's journey to Christianity
1:00:00 "The wrong side of history"
1:06:30 Civility Dinners / Book Club
1:13:03 Keri's message to the woke
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If you are inspired by Keri's story of leaving Woke, please support her work: czcams.com/users/KeriSmithDeprogrammed
@esaesa07 It is today. we all know the historical origin.
@esaesa07 language is ephemeral, and you can't claim ownership of a word. I would also think that since the anti woke crowd and the og wokes in the black community don't exactly intermingle, one group's definition of the word is mutually exclusive to that of the other. So honestly there should be no issue. You use it your way, we'll use it ours..
Excellent discussion 👏 👏 👏
@esaesa07 What is a woman? What is racism? Plenty of wholesale redefining going on recently.
It comes down to two groups the globalists = socialist, communist, and Marxists(csm) vrs the constitutionalists= all Americans for the constitution republican democratic and everything in between..... within the csm you have the woke, LGBT, BLM, some liberals some democratics and, many other groups. You have to fully define your opposition. Think all about this. Your awesome Peter BOGHOSSIAN!
I worked in the Film Industry in Hollywood for more than 30 years. During that time, I was a liberal. Years after I retired from that business, I moved to one of those 'red' flyover states that the Hollywood elite have such open contempt for. I made friends with a lot of conservatives who are some of the warmest and welcoming people I've ever met. And, they were all gay friendly and backed marriage equality! Who knew? When I voiced support for Trump on Facebook, I lost 90% of my friends from my Hollywood years. Most just went silent, but many told me to go fu^k myself. Out of all those people, who did that, only one apologised. During the run-up to the 2020 election, I got a call, out of the blue, from a former colleague who said, "I am so sorry. You were right about a lot of things". It is incredible that after a 30 year career working with so many people on so many films that almost all of them...you know, the one's who believe in inclusivity, diversity, and love...have treated me like an apostate.
It’s fine.. as long as you finally saw reality.. some people die of old age without finding out.. life is too short! ❤
So sorry
You sound like a thoughtful person. I'm sorry that happened to you. I hope you have good friends surrounding you in your new life. All the best to you!
@@beecee9681 Thank you. Now that I'm in my early 60's I've come to realize the one of the most important thing about friendships: Quality over quantity.
It's sad but you cannot step outside the lines. I wanted to work in the industry 20 yrs ago but my moderate sensibilities got me kicked before I break in all the way. I can remember the acting group I was part of completely changed overnight literally. We went from common sense moderate to woke overnight because a couple of us questioned some of the wokeness changes happening. The next there was a flurry of angry emails so I just gave up that dream. It's so sad.
I woke up during BLM, when it was fine for thousands to gather but a lone person on a beach or hiking trail was arressted. I accidentally watched Awakening with JP and that did it!
scientists writing letters about how it is ok to go out and protest, in the middle of the curve flattening hysteria, was the most mind-boggling thing to witness
seeing Biden get 80 million votes after that was even more crazy
I've watched several of these types of interviews where people talk about when they left the left. And many of them say the same thing it was during the BLM riots it was during the double standards of covid-19 just question marks left and right so little by little I'm glad to see you came to the right side or rather came to the right conclusion❤ 18:12
JP does it again!
I was never pro BLM, but that sure woke me up to the fact that covid restrictions were a total farce and no one in a position of authority actually believed they were necessary.
Same,the mob mentality and violence of the BLM protests shook me a bit and made me question where that had all come from,because I was young and hadn't seen anything like that happen before in the US. I spoke out about the violence on a social platform and was lambasted,I thought it was obvious that the violence was uncalled for and gave the people peacefully protesting a bad rep,but I thought wrong apparently and that it should be a violent protest and that the white police men should be shot,I want no part of that uglyness or hypocrisy and have kept healthy skepticism of causes ever since then
My daughter said something to me similar to being on the wrong side of history. She said I don't understand and haven't accepted the new ways of the world. My response to her was I not only completely understand the new way you are talking about but I also recognize how completely stupid it is and thus reject it.
That’s bot a very helpful response to get her to wake up. I think the anecdote in this podcast shows a better way to win her back - the one about the guy that treaded his dad horribly but the dad kept loving them.
Give push back but don’t make it judgmental (“stupid”). No-one was ever convinced by someone calling their ideas stupid
“new ways of the world”
In 1935 not a few Americans talked of “the new Germany”, tried to visit.
@@milton7763 I really don't care nor am I trying to convince her becuase people with those beliefs can't be convinced - they just have to wke up on their own.
I enjoyed this immensely beautiful story, so well told.Thank you.
@@arnoldpainal5885
what are these 'new ways', and what's wrong with them? In my experience, no-one who complains about 'woke' culture has a sufficient definition of what being woke actually means.
That idea of correcting history, controlling the narrative, controlling language via definition… got to say it just chills me. Orwellian
Kafkaesque?😂
Precisely. Totalitarianism is the enemy.
Yes, and the fact that they all do it without being specifically instructed, like robots, is kind of scary, but they have in many ways been programmed.
I have a bipolar female cousin who's in her early 40's, raising an 8 year old daughter as a boy. A couple years ago when she announced her 6 year old daughter was transgender, I immediately called her out on the nonsense. That side of the family made up of mostly women have nothing to do with me now because I called her out. It's crazy and I feel bad for my young second cousin.
Theres got to be something you can do for her. Does she go to a therapist? Lots of time there is a therapist lurking in the shadows like a puppeteer. Once someone goes to woke therpist they are basically under aggressive hypnosis. Lots of "if-then"s and "double binds" will inhibit their thoughts. If you can get her going to a reasonable and sane therapist you would be working a miracle for those children and your cousin. Reasonable and sane therapists wont just watch someone trans their whole family and sit there going "oh how lovely. Must be true!". Right now shes probably under the influence of someone like that.
@@gethelp6271 I wish. But in the state of NY, I'm supposed to affirm the new gender or face penalties.
@@wiseguy9202 You could get a non woke therapist involved while making zero personal claims about the child.
Send birthday cards to your cousin’s daughter every year, on the off chance that her mother doesn’t shred them in secret. That way, when she’s older, has agency and needs help, it might occur to her to turn to you.
@partiellementecreme that's actually not a bad idea. I do think each card would be inspected, but all it could potentially take is one and hopefully she could see to its intent. Interesting. Thank you!
Her posture changes as she speaks. When she talks about what she did when she was woke she shrinks and her face expresses guilt but when she talks about getting out and freedom she smiles and sits up and is more expressive. Her body and facial cues indicate true remorse, regret and now that she is out a true happiness.
I am so glad she has escaped all these cults. I hope her open mind will let her see that she is still adopting belief systems. Real freedom must escape dogma. She is still believing without evidence based on emotion. Her prayer experience can easily be explained by feeling the support of her sisters and being uplifted and made more positive by it. If prayer actually worked there wouldn't be children in war zones, suffering from terrible diseases and starvation. Their prayers remain unanswered. She chose to make that interpretation because it was the belief system of the group that gave her that support. I wish Peter had put this type of reasoning to her. He was very uncritical, which is nice but we are used to more probing questions from him generally.
And she seems the type of person who would consider alternate arguments and honestly examine herself.
@@davidlamb7524 Maybe she's just not there yet. It's hard to give up on something that promises eternal life, even if you don't think eternal life is a good idea.
@@barrykochverts4149 I think there is a locked in idea that there must be a belief system that is true. She went Baptist, to Spiritualist, to Catholic, to woke, to a cowboy church (!) and now some other Christian denomination.
Just looking for truth in all the wrong places !
@@davidlamb7524 I think you may be confused on how prayer works. It's not a monkey paw 😂
@@leper360 How does prayer 'work' ?
I thought desperate people humbly asking God to help them and then receiving help in a miraculous way was the usual narrative.
It's just that the truly desperate seem to be relegated to the bottom of the list of prayers to be answered
I know pop stars claim He helped them get their last million seller, but I don't think you buy that any more than I do.
But looking at the prayers apparently answered against those not, He does seem to favour people from the wealthier western countries over the impoverished.
Maybe I got it all wrong.
You tell me how it works.
My son left woke when the mentally ill group he lived with in university turned on him. Nobody is pure enough. It implodes. He lost his entire social circle and client base. Utterly devastated.
Such a shame his friends did that. Hope he is doing ok. I don't understand such lack of respect....it used to be different ways of thinking makevthe world interesting. Now the "tolerant" are just hateful.
@@suhubu1 He's been damaged, but since separating from them his mental health has improved dramatically. It's been a blessing in disguise, albeit painful and now he's alone without friends, but he's rebuilding, changed uni after a year out, and has a job, all of which seemed impossible a year ago. I'm very proud of him.
Did he like the wrong tweet?
@@suhubu1 The Left was never tolerant, just claimed to be.
Hope he is better now. When friends turn on you like that, they weren't real friends in the first place.
This hit me so hard on a very personal level. When she talks about the guy who treated his dad horribly especially. I have a woke daughter who will not speak to me. I will take responsibility as I did tell her she was indoctrinated. In the same response I also told her how much I love her and am so proud of all of her accomplishments and her drive. I always text her on special days, knowing I won't get a response. Not only has she scrubbed me out of her life but also her grandparents (my side) true, we have never been perfect and have made some mistakes but we have owned up to them and apologized and changed behavior. We are a family of alcoholics. My dad has been sober for 6 years, my mom for 5. I'm still working on it. I drink almost every night. Haven't been drunk for almost 2 years. She grew up in a community and family that strongly supported her every move. But because we don't share her views, we are all trash. 😢 sorry for the long rant, I miss my kid. ❤
It’s so hard! Saying a prayer. I do worry about those I love who got the jab.
It just sounds like your daughter doesn't want to hang around a bunch of alcoholics
I'm so sorry for the pain you're feeling. You're doing the right thing in keeping the positive contact. I hope she comes back sooner rather than later. A turning point has to be coming. This is not sustainable.
Stop texting her she will notice go cold 🥶
@@glorytogodhomestead3495yes
I am the only one
( that I know of)
Who didn’t get it in my whole very large family group.
I joked around once,
although I was at least somewhat serious,
that they better teach me how to run grandpa’s backhoe,
because I wasn’t hand digging all of the holes myself.
Hoping for the best 🤞
But there has been way too many mysterious “sudden collapse” and “sudden death” incidents amongst the other wise young and healthy for my liking.
The real zombie apocalypse 🧟♂️
Thank you so much for the opportunity to discuss this with you Peter. I hope you can crack the code on how to “wake people” en masse.
I also hope there are woke / social justice ppl watching. If you’re in that woke world and you hate me or have questions for me or whatever, feel free to reach out privately if you want. I won’t out you as an “apostate” for asking questions.
A war on our soil would wake people up en masse. How willing are you to actually deal with this?
I am curious about what you think the most persuasive tack is in order to red pill someone. Most of my friends and family are so far gone, I cannot make headway, though Ive tried pointing out how so many groups of people actually do not benefit from these movements.
@@robertmadison1205 In my experience it has been: being vocal about my beliefs, but not preachy. Ppl in my life know my opinions about social justice bc I make it known on social media and in my Deprogrammed podcast. It’s what I use social media for (well that snd dog pics haha) but in real live I don’t force friends to have convos. If we talk politics or culture it’s usually because ThEY initiate it. I think that puts ppl at ease bc from my online stuff they might expect me to be pushy or an evangelist but I’m not. I’m just as happy to hang out with them and talk about other things or work on the garden or listen to music with them. Then…if they are curious, they will bring up the topic. I have a video about this where I share mire - “how to talk with people who disagree with you.” These are just things that have worked for me. I ask them questions. I maintain curiosity. Non judgmental. I try to treat them the way I’d like them to treat me as we discuss things we disagree about.
Great interview! Atheists are starting to listen to Christians. You wrapped up with a nice comment about courage and Jesus. 👍
Thank you so much Keri. I am impressed by your honesty
LOVE her use of the word “cult”. It needs to be applied consistently in this way. It destroys brains and devours souls
YEEEAH!
When making reference to this I use "cult" and "religion" interchangeably to describe it.
Anyone who uses new speak or subjugates themselves to authoritarian control of language under moral presuppositions should be considered and labeled as a cultist.
The only danger is that it will be overused and lose its meaning.
@@ifly-fsx Such as the term "woke?"
I'm a Christian, and I just figured out WHY I love this channel so much. Peter allows people to be themselves. Even though he doesn't believe what they believe, he allows them to just BE. That is a rare gem in today's society.
•Did you ever watch Star Trek?
•No.
(Zero hesitation)
•You’re dead to me.
I’m on the floor. Love you Peter. Love both of you. This was a wonderful talk!
Has to be a gif 😂
A young male relative of mine mentioned Jordan Peterson
I was alarmed as I had read negative stories about him in the press. I looked him up with a view to getting a handle on how I might steer my relative from 'extremism'. This was some years ago and immediately I hit upon JP's classroom lectures. I dont agree with everything he says, and you can see how the pressure and relentless attack has got to him at times, but in general he is wonderful. Anyone should be thrilled if their kid is listening to him. I wonder how many of us stumbled on him trying to 'protect' kids from him! 😆
This is perhaps the best interview I've seen on YT. Thanks to Keri for being so open about the changes in her life and to Peter for asking such great questions.
A very decent and nice woman. But she has confirmed my belief: Woke is a religion; she has traded Woke religion for established religion. And that’s fine bc at the very least, she believes in free speech.
My fervent belief that sex is binary and immutable should be on the right side of history. Otherwise we are doomed for decades or centuries more of craziness born from a rejection of a fundamental truth in favor of coddling feelings of the delusional.
Go take a look at Jordan Peterson's interview with James Lindsay
This video might help shattered families and grieving parents to understand why their teenage daughter became anxious, depressed, claimed to have PTSD, and disowned everyone.
It's not like an established religeon. Hers is a broad liberal perspective, which is against the intolerant cult of wokeism. She demonstrates open-mindedness, the courage to go against powerful groups, and the belief in freedom of expression. It's an enlightened position.
I’m glad she’s finally awake and speaking out but she needs to understand that she played a role in this Marxist indoctrination being pushed on the masses.
Liberals like her seem to always have good intentions when they talk about change. What they fail to realize is that change has already happened, sacrifices have already been made, and the major battles have already been fought.
Liberals always seem to find fault with this country while foreigners risk their lives to leave socialist regimes to come here. Many come here with nothing and build lives and have great appreciation for everything we have while leftists and liberals try to find fault in it and attack it. It’s dishonest and it has now led to this social revolution that this country will either survive or be destroyed by.
I can say atleast she is now doing her part to expose the lie.
One thing that made me begin to wake up was when I was in West Virginia and some, what I would have called "hillbillies" came over, said hi and asked if we wanted to join them for a picnic lunch. What!? These people were supposed to be horrible. They were immediately humanized.
Wow!
I didn't want this interview to end. Just tonight I was discouraged by Christians deceived by woke ideology. I really needed this.
Is there a video on that topic that you can recommend?
Favorite part was discussing how Keri realized she was more than her identity. That should be the overall argument against so much of the identity ideologies we are experiencing at this time.
Agreed, we are much more than the physical and political labels we use to identify ourselves in society. I hope everyone can see the deception of woke culture before they die. But ultimately that does not clean us of our fallen sinful state. Only through Jesus are we washed of our sins and reconciled to The Father. Woke culture is a powerful deception, but the greater deception is to believe that we go to heaven by being “good” people. We cannot make it without being cleansed of our unrighteousness.
Blessings 🙏✝️
“I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me.”
John 14:6
Yeshua from the Gospel of John
“If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
1 John 1:9
You are more than your identity because you are not one identity. You have infinite amount of identities in you, father, brother, american, man, woman, water plumber, gamer, etc .... The whole idea to reduce a human being which is a sum of infinite identities to only one, and then proclaim = "this is who you are" is utter trash. Dehumanizing utter trash.
Exactly and that’s what made me turn against all these identity and woke ideologies.
I was never "woke", but I would have considered myself a progressive. The thing that set me down the path of changing my political opinions was reading "The Righteous Mind" by Jonathon Haidt. I've never had such an intense experience of understanding from a book as that gave me. It felt like when Neo gets the upload in The Matrix and he comes out of it and goes "I know Kung Fu", except it was "I understand conservatives".
But isn't that movie a Woke-Marxist fantasy based on their theory of False Consciousness?
Such an eye-opening book 👏
Ha! Well said.
I'm slightly to the left of JFK, but am seen as very conservative in my church
I love the Matrix analogy😂
2 things to make your children aware of young to prevent woke or in sometimes long term wokeness.
1: teach that "life is not fair" and thats okay
2: teach that there is no "utopia" and there will always be adversities given life is messy
Those 2 thoughts being put in me young pulled me out
Some of the worst atrocities in history were done by people proclaiming to be on the right side of history... but don't you understand they were trying to usher in the utopia.
Yep and you can find this worldview in the Bible! I taught this to my kids before we knew of woke and none of them have been fooled by the woke ideology!
I heard something Thomas Sowell said and I would teach that also: there are no solutions, only trade-offs.
And heres a third thing " the world does not owe you a living". So buck up ,get a job, and fly right as my grandmother used to say.
@@eileenstrahan5972 exactly! Well said
Thank you so much for this illuminating conversation.. I attended a graduate program in San Francisco 2013-2016. Being older and from Eastern Canada I had no idea the level of social activism that was present in the program and in the social mileu of the school. I did graduate but I fled as soon as I could. It was a soul-searing and shattering experience that has taken me years to integrate and overcome. In reality, I think,woke ideology is a ruthless, inhumane and soul-less endeavor.
Agree. It is.
Your last sentence describes the maoistic race Marxism that it is.....
I wonder if you’d consider that you suffered a moral injury… it sounds like it. Glad it’sbehind you now
Every generation has their wake up calls. Keri mentions "truth" a few times, and I truly wish she had zeroed in on it more; although, it is obvious the lack of truthfulness within the woke agenda.
TRUTH & FREEDOM are the two points to pivot on in any ideology one entertains and embraces. That is why she landed on being a Christian, a true follower, at least.
Our Woke PM Trudeau has to go.
What an absolutely fantastic guest and just wonderful person.
Did you miss the bit about when she was a wiki propogandist?
@@miroirs-jumeaux Please be as forthright with your sins and bad things you’ve done in your life. I’d like to see what a faultless person looks like. ;) Actually I’m just messing with you. Don’t sweat it. I’m under no illusion I am a good person or a bad person. 🤷♀️ I’m just a person, like you. Peace.
@@RealKeriSmithave you ever thought about getting back on Wikipedia again, see how far you get trying to balance out the information landscape with good faith?
I imagine you'd meet resistance, but that could be an important experience which you could share with the world!
~ I suspect I agree with the head-comment here, on balance! ❤
@@miroirs-jumeaux It’s a good question. I don’t have the compulsion anymore to “correct” the historical record in that way. Control what ppl think. I don’t have the stomach for that and I don’t have the authority. But I do have the compulsion to share my opinions about my old ideology, because like Peter I think it’s not an overstatement to say that this ideology threatens the very foundations of civilization. So I do that on Deprogrammed and in my writing on substack. I interview a lot of ppl who have woken up bc I think…if people can hear all different kinds of stories of ppl who left it, maybe one will resonate with them. Maybe for one person it’s this guy’s story or that woman’s story, etc. The humanizing thing. I know a lot of ppl are turned off by the fact that I’m Christian… that’s just my story. 🤷♀️ I’ve interviewed folks for whom that wasn’t their path. So maybe for some those stories will resonate more.
@@miroirs-jumeaux also thanks for being a good sport about me teasing you. :) No hard feelings. 🙌💜
I’m a reformed wokie. I relate to so much of what Keri says. It was Trans that finally broke the spell for me but Race had started my transformation years back. TDS kept me in the cult for a bit. I related to the story about the father. I recently made a framed calligraphy that says, “You Might Be Right!” For my father in law, whom I had demonized and disrespected through the Trump years. The things in my background that led to me being able to break free and admit it are: my alcoholic family history, my Al -Anon recovery, serious health crisis and my Catholicism. I’ve lost quite a bit but luckily, my husband and one best friend have changed right along with me.
It is quite evolved that you made the artwork for your father in law. As a population, the United States is so terribly manipulated by sources we have been trained to trust , like our “free press”, which has never been, likely never will be free, and public education which seeks not to educate, but rather to school. It is a near miracle that you shifted your thinking at all, it is not easy.
@@lilolmecj - thanks.
It was trans ideology for me too.
For some reason I don’t agree with a children being sterilised.
I occasionally consider going g on some old forum posts and apologising
@@solidflyer286 - I hear you about wanting to go back and apologize. I am embarrassed at so much of what I spouted!
@@deirdrefinnegan5436 the things is at its core I still think much of what is now woke was coming from a good place. It’s just gone crazy.
JP's cancelling snapped me out of it too. It took me realizing that what I had been told was an absolute lie; he was never a nazi. I realized that he wasn't fighting against a group of people he devalued, but rather for a value we both share - free speech. The house of cards came down quickly after that.
As I replied to Catcameback597: I was an extreme far leftist. My wife and I lived in Portland, Oregon. The beginning of my awakening was the documentary by Cassie Jaye, The Red Pill. Then there was Jordan Peterson. Then when I began speaking more conservatively among woke friends and relatives, I began being ludicrously called a white nationalist and racist and disowned by decades long friends. When the BLM and Antifa riots began, we made plans and moved to Florida. So nice not seeing virtue signaling woke banners, posters and bumper stickers everywhere.
"I trusted the media I consumed."
Same here.
Thank you for sharing your powerful testimony.
I got snapped out of woke after the weird pressure I felt to post a black square and send an email to my subscribers in support of BLM, while also weirdly confessing my own unconscious racism. I cringe at that now, but I then started exploring other viewpoints and investigating all the so-called “bigots, because I just felt I’d gone along with a lot of things and suppressed my own beliefs or common sense.
First person I went to check out: Jordan Peterson. That changed everything. Like, he’s annoying too in some of his beliefs, but I’m so glad I no longer write him off because I don’t agree with everything 🙌🏼
Though Im less forgiving of Jon Stewart and John Oliver now. I see their lies (especially “trans kid” stuff)
It's eye opening, isn't it? Once upon a time, I was the typical lib millennial who honestly believed conservatives were complete idiots. Like you, Jordan Peterson snapped me out of that delusion! It's scary to look back and realize how indoctrinated I was.
I've become so disappointed with Jon Stewart, John Oliver and the like. I used to watch their shows all the time. Now I find them cringe on a number of topics.
I often wonder if they've changed or have I? I know I see things a lot different now, but if I go back and watch shows pre-2016, would I even enjoy the shows now?
John Stewart is a hell of a dissapointment. What a sanctimonious, "save the blacks from all that white supremacy", ass he's turned out to be. Unreal.
so do you guys now identify as conservatives?
@@dizmop
Stop with the labels
Really great interview. I'm a 64 year old pastor and it helped me understand how to interact with others and my own children who may have a few woke ideas unknowingly. Keri was very human and seems very approachable, and you asked great questions. Probably one of the most productive or helpful interviews I've listened to in a long time. I know you have a lot to say on theory and history of woke, but here's your answer to the broader question of reaching the culture especially when she talked about her friend's father being loving to his son. I don't think there's a secret answer or just taking on one person at a time although that's where it begins, but actually having a movement of people showing love. That's what the church should be about and it's already in place. We just need our own awakening to not feel threatened and come across as just defenders of doctrine and recognize our own need of humility in the power of Jesus through us Christians.. I believe it's really potential, and really there. We need to live it out Thanks , Gene Smith
Wow, this discussion kicked me in the head. Ive never been woke but a christian going through an unwanted divorce with a woke child, I'm tearing up listening to Keri's story. God certainly put me on a rock during this time and I feel for my wife and kids who are facing the emptiness of the values of the world.
"For in the day of trouble
he will keep me safe in his dwelling;
he will hide me in the shelter of his sacred tent
and set me high upon a rock" Psalm 27:5
I'm very sorry about what you're facing. Stay true to your faith and to God. Pray for your family and pray for yourself, to be quick to love while steadfast in truth. Slow to anger. Quick to forgive. In my experience anyway, God is the path through hard times.
@@RealKeriSmith thanks Keri. This message came at the perfect moment of today. I appreciate your thoughts. I'm heading out the door now into the hills and taking your advice just to pray about things.
@@mikefawcett1982 In the worst times I just say God I need help. Just cry out to him. Good luck today!
It's so nice to year normal adults having normal conversations. Love both of you.
Hear or year?
@@jacquesdewet2661🙄
A fascinating discussion. Keri's joy is authentic and inspiring. Your respectful back and forth is hopeful. I am grateful for both of you and your profound intellect. And glad that you are battling ... it is worth it!
Smart always wins in the end.
@@paulhoughton1691 Yeah, now she's in the religion cult. Fantastic....
@@inkrahek3802 i dont think she ever said she was overly religious. But lets say ur correct. Ive seen more religious church organizations support, LGBTQ, and feminists than ive seen their own movment do. She even says shes happier where she is. So by ur logic, who's the better outcome?
Her compassion was the trigger, that allowed her to change.
Very interesting testimony. Well done on the interview. I appreciate very much how much you let her talk and got great answers with little questions.
Yes. When you leave you lose your friends. it wont just be them leaving. They will try to break you. Brace yourselves. When i went through this i got super depressed. I didnt trust the ground below me because of the feeling of knowing i was pushed to believe a whole reality that was a lie. After about 2 years of putting my foot down and being fearless about who i am i can 100 percent say i feel truly free now. It gets worse before it gets better but the better is worth the journey
👍👍👍
My gosh. Seeing Keri pop up here is amazing. So great.
I loved hearing her talk about her current religious experience & you compelling her to compare it to her experience with “wokeness”
I’m not a Christian, but hearing that piece about there being no redemption with the woke is so true. The only “redemption” is by pushing blame on something/someone else & sold as, somehow, finding strength by declaring yourself as a victim. The way y’all explored that bit of the convo together was really great. I have thought about all this a lot & that really gave me something new to consider with approaching all of this. What a great convo!
I'm not particularly religious, but I'm starting to realize that woke is intrinsically opposite to Christianity where a good person takes on the burden (sins?) of others and sacrifices themselves. While the woke flip it, and force the burden onto someone else, even for their own sins or inadequacies.
Maybe woke is the Anti-Christ?
Yes please do consider Christ . He loves you.
It is always encouraging to see a dialogue between an athiest and a believer who are both very convicted in their personal truths. Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Only through Him do we have communion with our magnanimous Creator. When you see these interactions - it always seems just a bit more clear.
This interview is very intriguing. Woke people tend to have a difficult time admitting their own fault or error. To be interviewed about this actually shows courage. She has my respect.
When you asked, "what would you say to someone watching this who is stuck in the woke situation", and she said, "You are not your opinions, you don't have to feel personally attacked....", my mind immediately went back to a time when Lauren Chen was speaking at a university and a female student who happened to be black was really pissed off and criticizing her because of the way she always spoke so relaxed, and even when her opinions were attacked she still was completely relaxed and spoke that way and it really pissed this girl off and she kind of attributed the act of speaking in a relaxed way with being racist and all of the other buzzwords of bad things attributed to someone who has different opinions according to the woke system.
Wow. That has to be the longest run-on sentence in history.
@@tomkurowski8443 Sure is, but it's a true story and kind of funny when you think about it. I guess, it's written as one would speak it. So you can pause where ever you want when reading!
@@ung427 I was just messing with you, friend. I appreciate you taking the time to write all that out!
This is a terrific examination of the conditions that contribute to the woke mindset, and the process of becoming based. I can very closely identify with Keri's experiences. I remember the very moment I began to change. It was the day Trump was elected in 2016. I was absolutely shocked and devastated. My work bestie, whom I'd known for over a year, surprised me by chastising me for voting for Hillary Clinton. I had no idea he was my political opposite, all that time. Intriguing! Because we already liked and trusted each other as work friends, we were able to have better, more open conversations about difficult topics.
Also, I love to fact-check, and so there I went and found out he was right about so many of the things he was telling me that seemed unbelievable. Then I began to fact-check myself, and brick-by-brick, tore down my whole political belief system, plus some. I lived in a state of strong cognitive dissonance for a few years after that, as I came to understand and settle many issues.
(As a fun side-note, my work bestie and I have been together since 2017.)
💕
A wise woman with integrity and good taste in hats. Thanks for the interview.
Agree on both points
Can she be wise if she was able to get so easily brainwashed into the woke? I beg to differ.
I was formerly a board member of a prominent LGBTQ political organization and considered myself a social justice warrior. What I didn’t realize was that my beliefs were actually being driven by my libertarianism and desire for others to mind their own business when it came to sexual preference. But when trans people started calling me transphobic because I supported the UFC for not allowing biological men to fight women, the ideological divide within the left became extremely apparent. Over a course of 2 years, I watched the more level headed centrist liberals lose political power to the social justice warriors. I moved to Texas and left politics, but then watched the trans narrative spread nationwide, infecting women’s sports, medical literature, and more. The straw that broke the camel’s back was when they started trying to indoctrinate children. As a father of 4, my parental instincts really kicked in and pushed me even further to the right. When I saw Biden recently say that children did not belong to their parents, but belonged to society, I almost fell out of my chair.
You want an emotional trigger to shake a woke parent awake? Get them to understand the implications of society owning their children.
So true! The slippery slope that many warned about decades ago is now at the stage down the slope that the radical progressives are brazenly coming for innocent children. Parents are finally waking from their slumber now that porn and neutering are being portrayed as beneficial to children.
Just watched it on Rumble, came to say that Peter really shines as an interviewer with his minimalistic approach. This whole chat just oozed compassion and optimism, and I think it can really help people who are trying to leave the cult (even if it is unscalable) . Thanks Peter and Keri!
I love hearing from people like me who escaped the woke. Keep it coming!
This is the best podcast of the year! I've never seen someone open up about such a sensitive, and relevant subject, in such an honest way. Its a beautiful thing.
One thing I can't get over....her main issue with her past life as a "woke" person, is that she hadn't done the work to hold those opinions/beliefs. After watching her stumble her way through an explanation of why she changed here mind....clearly this lady still hasn't done the work. Lightweight guest right here.
@@HolyCanoleyyou miss the second part 'deep down they know they can't defend it'. Obviously women can be sexist, unless you put absurd caveats on 'sexism'. Obviously black/brown people can be racist, unless you absurdly distort the meaning of the word 'racist'. This will be gnawing at the gut of many SJW.
@@lalaDrlalaDr But I guess that's the problem. Everyone here seems to be describing a rabid, annoying uninformed person...who just happens to think they're deranged attitude is helping progress society on racial/gender grounds. Meanwhile, there's the other 99% of normal liberals like me, who simply recognize history was not equally kind to all people and communities...and that it's not a bad thing if government today takes an active, but measured, role in attempting to right those wrongs.
I guess that's the problem, is everyone watching this fed up with annoying self-righteous lesbians...or liberalism/progressivism writ large? It's extremely hard to tell from the comments (yours being one of them).
Thank you so much for such an important dialogue.
As a Soviet Union « survivor », now a Russian British, I went through lots of trauma of losing my husband and 4 children to a woke ideology (all to different degrees ) through the last few years.
Your story about a young woke subscribing man realising that he was hurting his dad who never stopped loving him really encourages me. I still love all my family, always say when I think about different woke issues, managed to establish a boundary for rudeness and disrespect (gradually), and determined not to give up.
Thank you a lot !❤
The Soviet Union was no "woke ideology". Please don't rearrange history. And you should know better coming off from a totalitarian and single party regime.
I'm also a Kirby
“They are currently being used to perpetrate evil.”
This quote from her really hits the bullseye on what is going on in universities post October 7.
One of the most memorable things I watched during all the "protests" was a little old black lady being interviewed in tears because the grocery store had been burned down. She cried 'this was my store, where am I going to go.' Wonder what woke person helped this soul. Or gave her a second thought.
I remember that interview. It was heartbreaking.
What a lovely person Keri is. She is a beautiful example of her faith
I am glad she came out of the cult and now has the freedom to think for herself. It is awesome that she is helping others to come out of it too. She has taken what was meant for her harm, and is now turning it around for good to help save others. That is an awesome thing. God bless her in this endeavor.
I woke up with the drumming native american and the smiling boy.
Everyone around me was laying into that boy, but the short edit was not sitting right with me... so I started looking for a full video clip to get context and found it in a couple of days, before any news even admitted to it.
I could not believe how everyone was ignoring the context.
Peter doesn’t interrupt his guests and it makes all the difference
8:36 thank you for acknowledging Meghan Murphy. She deserves so much credit for leading people through the desert of woke. She is a primary influence of mine and the entire reason I refused to use Twitter.
The righteous mind absolutely changed my life and it was the first step in my deprogramming. Haidt is brilliant and I will be forever grateful for his works
The honesty of this conversation is very uplifting. I congratulate both of you for being vulnerable and open. Thanks!
It would be very interesting to try to get stats on transgenderism by zip code/city in different cohorts. I live in Portland and I would be shocked if the rate among adolescents isn’t mind boggling-ly high to the point that it helps open people eyes to how much of this is a social contagion. If this has been done on such a micro-level then I’d love to see it. All I can find are state statistics which I imagine are rather misleading as to actual numbers relative to some populations.
I woke up and got out just in time. You’re totally correct, looking back now when I was there 10yrs ago it’s terrifying. That blue haired doctor in What Is A Woman by Matt Walsh was exactly like my doctor. There insane.
That would be VERY interesting to see, and the number will only balloon higher if the OR Senate Republicans fail to thwart HB 2002 forcing insurance companies to cover transgender surgeries on kids!
I live in Portland too and I see it plain as day. I’m worried for my 10 year old nephew who goes to school here.
@@shanecrump7932 I'm inclined to say please please please get him out move out of there. I have 3 year old boy, and an 8 and an 11 year old girl. We don't live in Portland, but I don't know how much longer the place where we are is going to remain safe. I don't know if it is even yet. I'm terrified one of my kids will say or do the wrong thing in front of the wrong teacher or other adult and will somehow end up losing custody of our kids, by someone who wants to put them on the transition path.
Yes the Portland metro area would be astronomically high. Plus Oregon has so much "affirmation care" and wokeness that boatloads of young people move there to re-invent themselves litterally.
Keri's story resonates with me. I've experienced that crisis of identity where my fundamental beliefs fell apart. I don't think it's mechanically reproduceable. You can encourage that moment for people, but they have to be in a very certain mindset for it all to come together.
This was an incredibly civilized conversation in a world that can be anything but. Thank you.
Keri, you give me hope that my children will begin to think for themselves and formulate their own opinions based on their own research. Your interview is so interesting and illuminating I am going to share it with them.
What a beautiful story! I admire her courage. We need more people like her.
Its courage after evryone else has died on the battlefield that's not courage its opportunism realising the tide is turning now that ordinary folk are finding out what she has been doing all this time
It's interesting that you interpret it that way, when having been in and left a cult, I find her story very relatable and authentic. How do you come to your conclusion, or is it just a baseless assumption because you can't imagine such a person being sincere?
I've never bought into the bs but I have great admiration for those who have and who've managed to pull themselves out of it.
"It's easier to to fool someone, than to convince them that they've been fooled" attributed to Mark Twain.
I can relate…. I lost my entire social group due to my stance on the Covid vax…. I was branded as anti vax which I am not. I believe in some vaccines but not all. This is incredible interview
My sister gets really angry with me when I say anything that isn’t in her approved preview…she starts yelling and tells me she doesn’t want to hear anything I have to say. We can only have conversations about subjects that she approves.
That is my experience with anyone that I know that has a different opinion…basically any Democrat…they don’t want to even hear mine…at all.
Lost many “friends “
And have been called names, and labeled with hateful things.
In my experience there's three reasons people become woke. 1. Bleeding heart 2. Historically ignorant 3. Resentment and hatred for perceived oppressor groups
She's correct about how to reach the first group, with emotional arguments. The second group requires facts and a list of recommended readings. The third group is much more difficult to approach and I would recommend leaving them alone and leading by example.
I think the issue is usually a combination of those 3 reasons. We can look at something like the 1619 project as being driven by all 3 reasons.
Resentment and envy are fuel for many leftists.
Keri and Peter, I've left "cult of woke" and you both had something to do with it. Thank you!
I love that Keri is unabashedly honest about her Christian faith. I also love how pleasantly uncomfortable Peter is with it. There is a kindness there, true tolerance that supports necessary differences.
Because he can see what is plain to most of us: She hasn't fixed anything, she's just changed her drug of choice.
@@marcwilliams9824what would be fixing things in your mind?
It seems like she is a much less judgmental person, healthier view of herself and others, stopped drinking (which she felt like was something she would never be able to do), and she regularly has these open conversations with other people coming out of wokeness. I mean it sounds like she is in a much healthier place than she was before.
@@hankhooper1637I have to agree with you. I myself am now an atheist but grew up in an eastern European Roman Catholic home. Further I went to Catholic high school and College where I was taught by Jesuits. Ironically this is likely what helped prevent me from becoming woke as one of the benefits of a Jesuit education is they teach you a fair amount of intellectual rigor in things such as logic and philosophy and are pretty rigorous regarding biology and even natural selection. We need to find allies where we can in our battle against intellectual dishonesty and uncritical thinking. Whatever differences I might have with religious people who are fairly based on most subjects pales in comparison to the differences with the woke zealots preaching both ideological and unscientific absurdities.
The most powerful conversation I have seen on this topic. The emotion and determination to change the course of our society by Peter and Keri was palpable and gives me great hope that this situation can be pulled out of the fire.
This interview made me cry.
I'm so happy for her. I'm also so sad about the damage to people and families.
Great discussion, Pete, you are probing the areas of Keri's story that I have been most fascinated by. Since I first heard of her a few years back, Keri's story had always fascinated me. With a perfect combination of compassion and strength of will, she is an anomaly in that she _vocally_ disputes her former ideology in a world where the vast majority seem to: (1) never stray from it, (2) question it deep down at a subliminal level that never makes it through their internal filters to the surface, or (3) no longer believe but never speak up, slowly and silently back stepping away into the bushes and out of sight.
Yes, she’s terrific. I really admire what she is doing and how she does it.
@@drpeterboghossian, you are urged to become VEGAN, since carnism (the destructive ideology that supports the use and consumption of animal products, especially for “food”) is arguably the foremost existential crisis.🌱
"If they start thinking about identity and purpose and meaning it won't withstand because it has no true purpose and meaning." Great stuff...
This was an incredible interview and really touched me and spoke to my personal experiences in every way. You are a wonderful person Keri 💙
Amazing insightful conversation! Something Keri said lead me to the thought that while these woke people are supposedly fighting "the good fight" they're simultaneously losing, or even destroying, their own sense of self without knowing it. I mean, who are they without their pain, their anger?
Keri, you have my utmost respect for fighting your way back to the surface and finding yourself again ♡ × ∞
1:13:10 One of the most brilliant things I've heard on this subject for a while:
“I'd have to say that you are so much more than whatever you think your identity is at this moment. Because if you're in ‘woke’ I know if I asked you ‘Who are you?,’ you're probably going to give me an answer that's not really Who You Are. And I would also say you are not your
opinions. That's probably why you feel personally attacked when people criticize your
opinions, because you mistake your beliefs for who you are. And you know, don't hold so tightly to those things. That's not your identity, your belief system.”
Welcome to the light, Keri. We love you and are grateful for your vulnerability and courage.
WOW! She's on the same path I'm on. I'm so glad I stumbled on to this interview!! Very positive!
I am so thrilled to see Keri here on your channel! I follow both of you and what a joy to see Peter interviewing Keri! Thank you both for this great discussion!
Thank you. I’m delighted you enjoyed our conversation.
Keri is such a gem ! Great interview.
I’m glad people are discovering their spiritual side after being woke. Obsessing over identity is just about the exact opposite of spirituality.
For me - a skeptic, Atheist, Roosevelt-style Independent, and Baby Boomer - it is my constant questioning of everything that kept me out of Wokism. I gave up on two friends today because their Wokism led them to insult me even though many times I have defended them.
I am married to a woman who has been emotionally blackmailed into woke. And I realized I can give her no evidance to make her realize how utterly screwed that ideology is. It will take, as yall side, something deeply emotional to change her mind. Unfortunately I think that thing would have to happen to me or her family before she sees how nuts it is.
That has happened to virtually every woman I used to date. I’m pretty happy I didn’t marry any of them, as it would be hellish to be with them now. Stay strong
What would happen if you brought home the book Kari talked about The Righteous Mind by Haidt and just placed it on the table without any exposition? What if you had Timcast IRL playing in the background instead of the propaganda media on tv?
@@Jekyll_Island_Creatures sorry only just seeing this. So I've tried that in a way. She thinks Tim is a horrible person. And I left "War on the West" out where she would see it and amazingly I've never seen the book since. She is entrenched in her beliefs to the point me having a factual disagreement she reduces it to "I know you feel that way". Thus reject the fact as a feeling.
Thank you to my parents for teaching me to think critically and question authority including their authority. Do not conform to other’s beliefs before you research on a vast spectrum.
I appreciate her openness. Thank you. It is an act of individuality and self awareness
This ended up being one of the best talks ive heard on the subject. Thank you for your willingness to converse!
You are so welcome!
I think a useful question to ask someone would be "do you think there are multiple possible paths to ending racism or sexism? Could two reasonable and compassionate people agree we need to end these things but disagree on the details of how to get there?"
Do you think there are multiple possible paths to ending racism or sexism? No, there is only 1 which is to stop talking about it. Racism and sexism are "gateway drugs (words)" into woke degenerate communism. Woke people are not reasonable. The ideology is built on a house of emotional cards. They don't care about facts. The leaders have to keep the brain dead masses (zombies) in an emotional frenzy (lgbtq+, blm, white supremacy, anti-christian, pro muslem, a black man paired with a white woman on every commercial/netflix program/movie, normalization of pedophilia, normalizing drag queen story time for kids (more pedophilia), white privilege (and their preferred white guilt), pro-covid vaccine and boosters, pro Ukraine war, complete nonsense in corporations from human resources, ESG scores, diversity and inclusion, diversity is a strength bs, etc....)
I throughly enjoyed this conversation..Please keep them coming..Keri is amazing..!!
I simply can't get enough Keri Smith. She is wonderful!
WOW!!!! Love Peter and his approaches... God has a plan for you... Keri's story actions and faith serves as renewal for me... you can actually see the light in her.... Amazing
Much respect to Keri. Some people need religion of some type. I think she's one of those people. Better Christianity than woke.
Still a person that cant completely "think for herself" but need someone or something else to guide her and tell her what she must think...the signature of a WEAK personality...
@@dimercamparini I don't think so. She is oriented toward truth, and she's pursuing it independently, as evidenced by how she evaluates what a church can offer. It's incorrect to think that religions just 'tell people what to think'. That's the bias of the non-believer who nevertheless worships in a 'church' of his own.
@@aranisles8292 1) "non-believers" dont "worships" any church (that is the false idea of actual believers...religious ppl ALWAYS say that, and is obviously a ridiculous and baseless statement...we dont pray our "non-god" and dont follow our "not-bible", sorry...we are not even a "community", just individuals of their own that didnt bought into an ideology)
2) ofc she is "oriented toward A truth"...the "truth" that her religion has conveniently PRE-MADE for her, with a nice bow on top...
(exactly the same that woke ideology did for her in the past)
3) religions LITTERALLY tell ppl what to think...and they also have special books where all the PRE-thinking is clearly layed down, for you to acritically accept and recite back...if you wanna be a good acolyte, that is...
4) faith is the ANTITHESIS of critical thinking...is that simple...not much need to elaborate on that...
@@dimercamparini you really have no idea do you 😂
@@dimercamparini she doesn't worship a church, you idiot
I wish I could press the "like" button one thousand times
just make sure you hit it an odd number of times… 😂
@@miroirs-jumeaux ;-)
GREAT INTERVIEW, THANK YOU SOOOOO MUCH FOR THIS AMAZING INTERVIEW. SO IMPORTANT AND USEFUL.
She was made to feel stronger (confident) in social justice as part of a group (mob). A lot of SJ cannot defend their beliefs. Their anger and their words alone are used as justification. Mantras etc.
glad she is really awakening.
Such an incredibly important conversation. Thanks to both of you and the crew!
Very seldom am I glued to the screen for almost an hour and a half. Thank you Peter, and thank you Keri so much for being honest with us and with yourself. I’m a lifelong liberal, and I once found myself at the hands of the woke mob. Not because I’m a bad person, and not because of anything other than simply being who I am. I am astounded at how people can hate someone they’ve never met or gotten to know. Looking back on the situation, all those folks have fallen by the wayside in life. Why? Because people are waking up to their nonsense and moving on.
Very insightful..my daughter is in the woke colt.. it’s extremely difficult 😥
This was excellent! You guys made me cry, lol. I was never SJW, but I have spent alot of time learning about the ideology. Keri is such a wonderful human being. I was an instant fan when I seen her on Timcast. And I also appreciate you and James Lindsay so much. What the 2 of you have contributed, along with Michael O'fallon, is so invaluable. I don't think we would have had a chance to beat this thing without the 3 of you. I tell my kids you guys are heroes, and helping to save the world. ❤
I’ve watched both of you multiple times before, but there was something so… what’s the words… something like, so unguarded and intimate that I haven’t seen individually before.
Felt like I was in the room participating in a conversation with two good friends.
You nailed it.
People who are willing to admit they were wrong are sincere in a way that cannot be faked. That’s why it feels so authentic.
Damn Keri, you hit me right in the feels with that power of prayer bit. Bless you.
Definitely one of my favorites interviews that you have done, Peter. The story of the Father loving the son even while he pushed him away was wonderful. And Keri's faith is so encouraging to have run away from a hypocritical faith from her childhood only to find a genuine, grounded faith in her life...that's so good!
I agree with others, this is one of the best interviews I've seen. I think I'll watch it again to pick up more details. Thank you and please continue what you're doing.
Thank you so much.
Is it me or was Peter getting a little emotional when he talked about his friends and the "wrong side of history" comment? Either way, great conversation.
I think so too. But they circled back and disussed that, which kind of affirms that. And Thats great. Poweful stuff. I love peters work.
I'm sorry to see the pain that Dr. Bog has when he confronts the idea that his friends could abandon him based on the side of history they think he'll be on.
This conversation is very deep moving and interesting. Thank you so much to the both of you. I am really enjoying this.