I used to own two of those 46A Cats and this way of starting does work but there is a far less abusive way to do it. On a cold start, crank the engine on full compression until there’s some heat in pony and it’s pulling the load and running clean and proudly. It doesn’t have to take all day. When ready to fire the diesel, this has to be a quick and smooth operation and when the engine fires, there must be enough fuel to keep it running but not so much as to over rev it. You must be ready to shut it down should the pony starter drive fail to disengage from the flywheel. Now, while it is cranking, under full compression, right hand on the throttle lever, with right foot, momentarily release the compression and then open the fuel to about half and then immediately go back to full compression and immediately be ready to limit the rpms to an idle speed that keeps the engine running but yet doesn’t over speed. While doing all of that, you must listen and look for pony disengagement from the big engine. When the big engine fires the pony is designed to automatically kick itself out and let the big engine run on its own. The starter drive has no ratchet mechanism and if it fails to disengage or is forced to stay engaged and the big engine is allowed to run any faster than a slow idle, well, the big engine’s speed will then drive the pony to a speed (rpm) that it won’t like and will scatter pony parts and oil all over the left side of the machine and those parts are very hard to come by these days. Back in 1995, price for a pony crankshaft was $1,500. Price for a pony connecting rod was $400 from Cat. Starting and/or using a dozer like this at temps below 40 degrees is just inviting trouble. Also, on a 10-20 degree morning/day, Startup of this machine should only require about 1 to 2 minutes max operation of the pony. You can even use just a very little amount of either. Just saying that more than 2 minutes of pony operation under full compression is excessive and will shorten its life.
A pony motor kept in good shape is better than electric start for the big engine. It warms the intake manifold, it allows the fuel pressure, and oil pressure to come up before starting, and with the compression release engaged, it is easier for the pony motor, and the big engine to get to the point of starting. That is my personal opinion, and may not be shared by others.
I've been a mechanic for 37 years, and am now an engineer, and everything you say makes sense. I'll throw my hat in the ring on this one, however, adding anti gel an cleaners to the fuel oil (diesel) tank as well as running the overhead (valve and/or injector adjustment ), along with a complete fuel system flush and clean, oil change, air filter service goes a LONG way. When starting the engine, (1) let it warm up to normal operating temperature, (2) do not overspeed engine under any circumstances, if you hear something knocking, tapping, or if you see excessive smoke or steam out the exhaust, SHUT ENGINE OFF IMMEDIATELY OR AFTER THE TURBO HAS SCROLLED DOWN TO A STOP! That engine was being abused, as well as being over revved when it was still cold. When the operator finally laid off the throttle and let the engine idle, it sounded as if the engine was somewhat damaged. Just saying folks, that engine probably costs about 25,000.00$ rebuilt! Jason Wampler
@@ivanhoedokkrau1439 Well, Jason. If you have been around a Caterpillar you know the engine has a knocking sound when it is idling and it is normal. You will never get the big engine to operating temperature by just running the pony motor unless you have most of the day to do it and a lot of gas, and the weather is warm.
THE FIRST DOZER I LEARNED HOW TO OPERATE WAS THE ALL HYDRAULIC CAT D-8 36-A WITH THE DOZER BLADE TILT . MY FATHER REPLACED THE OLDER CABLE RIG D-8 WITH THE 36-A . I REMEMBER HIM TELLING ME THAT THE 36-A WAS STATE OF THE ART (for the time it truly was) AND BECAUSE OF THE BLADE TILT , THERE WOULD NEVER BE ANYTIME BETTER . THE OLDER CABLE RIG DIDN'T HAVE THE BLADE TILT ! MY BROTHER AND ME CLOSED THE DOORS AND RETIRED 3 YEARS AGO .WE SOLD OUR 16 PISCES OF EQUIPMENT ,ALL CAT BUILT DOZERS, SCRAPERS , LOADER S , EXCAVATORS AND MOTOR GRADERS . WE COULD NOT HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL AS WE WERE IF NOT FOR CATERPILLAR . BUT EVEN MORE THEN CAT I'VE GOT TO THANK MY FATHER ! WITH OUT HIM I WOULDNT EVEN BE HERE ! SO THANKS DAD , I LOVE YOU AND MISS YOU . YOU WILL ALWAYS BE THE BEST !!!! THANKS DAD !!
When I was a young know nothing mechanic 55 years ago in my uncle's garage I was handed a " no start" condition car.I checked for fuel, spark and the proper time and then cranked about 60 seconds until my uncle yelled at me across the shop and said " the owner has tried cranking on it until solder was dripping out of the starter,try something different. The old timers all had a great laugh on me and I learned a lesson that I remember to this day and how the older guys would come over if I was having a problem and say" having a problem kid let's look at it together,great people
this is kind or a weird set up...the pony motor has its own exhaust pipe? ours the exhaust went into the intake of the big engine and thru the main engine and came out the exhaust of the big engine... also this operator is gonna tear up the pinion on the pony motor not using the compression release
Wonder how much fuel he wants to wash cyls and pistons with instead of cranking w/ compression on, throttle closed (after oil press picks up) until pony gets some heat in engine?
A l’ école de travaux publics en Corrèze ,nous avions plusieurs bouteurs Caterpillar dont un D9G avec démarrage auxiliaire. Après le démarrage du moteur auxiliaire, on le laissait tourner un peu à vide puis on enclenchait le pignon sur la couronne du moteur diesel décompressé ensuite on embrayait pour lancer le diesel. Quand la pression d’huile était montée, on remettait la compression du diesel et on laissait tourner plus ou moins longtemps suivant la température. C ‘ était bon pour la mécanique car le circuit de refroidissement était commun aux deux moteurs ,le tuyau d’ échappement du moteur auxiliaire passait dans l’ admission du diesel et l’huile moteur était brassée,le diesel tournant sans effort. Quand on mettait l’ injection, le moteur diesel démarrait instantanément
The scenery looks like Northwestern Ontario (Canada), in early March. Lots of Finnish descendants living in Northwestern Ontario (Canada), Especially the Thunder Bay Area (around Lake Superior). The area is rich in Mining and Forestry. Enjoyed the video. Good old "Pup Start". Many "Old Timers" swear by this method of starting a Big Diesel engine, Especially in the Colder regions of NWO. Get the PUP running & the Diesel "will" start, eventually.
This operator doesn't have a clue how to use the starting engine or when to put the diesel engine governor control in the run position. it isn't hard use the staring system correctly. The transmission safety lever is not in the safe position.
@@kenuber4766 Who you talking about? The guy that knows how to start it correctly or the guy in the video that doesn't seem to know the proper procedure. Listening to his extended crank of the pony motor was cringe worthy enough---then he decides to add some gas! Maybe you're the dipstick?
@@-night--hawk-8457 Nope, been around Cat and John Deere Pony Motors though....And I'm telling you, this guy needs a refresher course on starting a diesel engine with a pony motor,
once the engine gets up to operating temp it will keep the cab half decent. unless he's confident the old brute ain't burning a little oil and he likes working on pony motors, he should have pulled a couple dipsticks
I don't know anything about bulldozers except that once upon a time they used cables and now they don't. But what I'd like to know is - and I mean nothing disrespectful to any Fins - why on earth would you want to live in a place this cold?
@@scampsboytes9088 whats it matter. Its a pony engine not an electrical starter motor. He let the pony run a moment before opening its throttle and cranking the diesel over
@@tractorboy31 Well what did you think he was starting the pony engine with when he was engaging the ELECTRICAL STARTER MOTOR for what seemed like forever---then decides he better put in some gas!
@@KStewart-th4sk Yes. That was probably a teenager. The canvas high top sneaker kind of pointed in that direction. Who, with any sense, doesn't check the gas in something like this, before trying to start it? Surprised he didn't burn the starter up, or a battery cable, or both.
Yes, the pony motor uses the cooling system of the main engine. In fact, the pony is warming up the main engine in such a manner that it's raising the coolant temperature.
@@alenugarkovic1848 Very nice. I've always had a soft spot for the Old Cat dozers. Just never had a chance to try out a pony motor machine. My first dozer ever was a D9G, serial number 66a9560
да с таким пускачем сдохнуть можно,у меня на юмзике шмырголкой с первого раза все заводится,а тут со стартером дрочит 5 минут,регулировка магнето,нормальная свеча,сальники целые,компрессия и все будет работать,еще карб исправный
I used to own two of those 46A Cats and this way of starting does work but there is a far less abusive way to do it. On a cold start, crank the engine on full compression until there’s some heat in pony and it’s pulling the load and running clean and proudly. It doesn’t have to take all day. When ready to fire the diesel, this has to be a quick and smooth operation and when the engine fires, there must be enough fuel to keep it running but not so much as to over rev it. You must be ready to shut it down should the pony starter drive fail to disengage from the flywheel. Now, while it is cranking, under full compression, right hand on the throttle lever, with right foot, momentarily release the compression and then open the fuel to about half and then immediately go back to full compression and immediately be ready to limit the rpms to an idle speed that keeps the engine running but yet doesn’t over speed. While doing all of that, you must listen and look for pony disengagement from the big engine. When the big engine fires the pony is designed to automatically kick itself out and let the big engine run on its own. The starter drive has no ratchet mechanism and if it fails to disengage or is forced to stay engaged and the big engine is allowed to run any faster than a slow idle, well, the big engine’s speed will then drive the pony to a speed (rpm) that it won’t like and will scatter pony parts and oil all over the left side of the machine and those parts are very hard to come by these days. Back in 1995, price for a pony crankshaft was $1,500. Price for a pony connecting rod was $400 from Cat.
Starting and/or using a dozer like this at temps below 40 degrees is just inviting trouble. Also, on a 10-20 degree morning/day, Startup of this machine should only require about 1 to 2 minutes max operation of the pony. You can even use just a very little amount of either. Just saying that more than 2 minutes of pony operation under full compression is excessive and will shorten its life.
A pony motor kept in good shape is better than electric start for the big engine. It warms the intake manifold, it allows the fuel pressure, and oil pressure to come up before starting, and with the compression release engaged, it is easier for the pony motor, and the big engine to get to the point of starting. That is my personal opinion, and may not be shared by others.
I've been a mechanic for 37 years, and am now an engineer, and everything you say makes sense.
I'll throw my hat in the ring on this one, however, adding anti gel an cleaners to the fuel oil (diesel) tank as well as running the overhead (valve and/or injector adjustment ), along with a complete fuel system flush and clean, oil change, air filter service goes a LONG way.
When starting the engine, (1) let it warm up to normal operating temperature, (2) do not overspeed engine under any circumstances, if you hear something knocking, tapping, or if you see excessive smoke or steam out the exhaust, SHUT ENGINE OFF IMMEDIATELY OR AFTER THE TURBO HAS SCROLLED DOWN TO A STOP!
That engine was being abused, as well as being over revved when it was still cold. When the operator finally laid off the throttle and let the engine idle, it sounded as if the engine was somewhat damaged.
Just saying folks, that engine probably costs about 25,000.00$ rebuilt!
Jason Wampler
@@ivanhoedokkrau1439 Well, Jason. If you have been around a Caterpillar you know the engine has a knocking sound when it is idling and it is normal. You will never get the big engine to operating temperature by just running the pony motor unless you have most of the day to do it and a lot of gas, and the weather is warm.
That’s the way I understand it, diesel fuel won’t ignite in a cold environment
THE FIRST DOZER I LEARNED HOW TO OPERATE WAS THE ALL HYDRAULIC CAT D-8 36-A WITH THE DOZER BLADE TILT . MY FATHER REPLACED THE OLDER CABLE RIG D-8 WITH THE 36-A . I REMEMBER HIM TELLING ME THAT THE 36-A WAS STATE OF THE ART (for the time it truly was) AND BECAUSE OF THE BLADE TILT , THERE WOULD NEVER BE ANYTIME BETTER . THE OLDER CABLE RIG DIDN'T HAVE THE BLADE TILT ! MY BROTHER AND ME CLOSED THE DOORS AND RETIRED 3 YEARS AGO .WE SOLD OUR 16 PISCES OF EQUIPMENT ,ALL CAT BUILT DOZERS, SCRAPERS , LOADER S , EXCAVATORS AND MOTOR GRADERS . WE COULD NOT HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL AS WE WERE IF NOT FOR CATERPILLAR . BUT EVEN MORE THEN CAT I'VE GOT TO THANK MY FATHER ! WITH OUT HIM I WOULDNT EVEN BE HERE ! SO THANKS DAD , I LOVE YOU AND MISS YOU . YOU WILL ALWAYS BE THE BEST !!!! THANKS DAD !!
When I was a young know nothing mechanic 55 years ago in my uncle's garage I was handed a " no start" condition car.I checked for fuel, spark and the proper time and then cranked about 60 seconds until my uncle yelled at me across the shop and said " the owner has tried cranking on it until solder was dripping out of the starter,try something different. The old timers all had a great laugh on me and I learned a lesson that I remember to this day and how the older guys would come over if I was having a problem and say" having a problem kid let's look at it together,great people
Love the sneakers on a cold ugly winter day!!!!!!!!
this is kind or a weird set up...the pony motor has its own exhaust pipe? ours the exhaust went into the intake of the big engine and thru the main engine and came out the exhaust of the big engine... also this operator is gonna tear up the pinion on the pony motor not using the compression release
Wonder how much fuel he wants to wash cyls and pistons with instead of cranking w/ compression on, throttle closed (after oil press picks up) until pony gets some heat in engine?
Lovely sound
OK, I see now -- gas fo da pony motor! Nice cold start!
They have a compression release you let the pony spin the engine till oil pressure comes up he did alright
Did the pony motor take so long to start 'cos there was no fuel? Does the pony just build up air for the air starter?
Still lots of life in this old girl. Would be cool to see her get some bodywork, paint, and some other TLC, and live on another 50 years.
Ym.mkkkkkk
She defiantly needs it.
@brdman true
Just wondering do they have starting fluid in Finland, or a lot of good pony motor mechanics ?
A l’ école de travaux publics en Corrèze ,nous avions plusieurs bouteurs Caterpillar dont un D9G avec démarrage auxiliaire. Après le démarrage du moteur auxiliaire, on le laissait tourner un peu à vide puis on enclenchait le pignon sur la couronne du moteur diesel décompressé ensuite on embrayait pour lancer le diesel. Quand la pression d’huile était montée, on remettait la compression du diesel et on laissait tourner plus ou moins longtemps suivant la température. C ‘ était bon pour la mécanique car le circuit de refroidissement était commun aux deux moteurs ,le tuyau d’ échappement du moteur auxiliaire passait dans l’ admission du diesel et l’huile moteur était brassée,le diesel tournant sans effort. Quand on mettait l’ injection, le moteur diesel démarrait instantanément
The scenery looks like Northwestern Ontario (Canada), in early March. Lots of Finnish descendants living in Northwestern Ontario (Canada), Especially the Thunder Bay Area (around Lake Superior). The area is rich in Mining and Forestry. Enjoyed the video. Good old "Pup Start". Many "Old Timers" swear by this method of starting a Big Diesel engine, Especially in the Colder regions of NWO. Get the PUP running & the Diesel "will" start, eventually.
Nice
wow
I dint no ether would liquify at th tempos there. Must be real cold.
What year is that thing?
Robert DiRosario 1961
Mid 50'd
Gas helps, doesn't it. Now let the pony run and warm the main before trying to start it. Give it a few more minutes!!! Don't rush the big engine.
Clean your windows. Damn
have the main engine his own starter or the pony motor is the starter only??
Why would there be a pony motor then?
Yes, it's kinda like the old wind up from front ...
This operator doesn't have a clue how to use the starting engine or when to put the diesel engine governor control in the run position. it isn't hard use the staring system correctly. The transmission safety lever is not in the safe position.
"Dip Stick" alert!!
@@kenuber4766 Who you talking about? The guy that knows how to start it correctly or the guy in the video that doesn't seem to know the proper procedure. Listening to his extended crank of the pony motor was cringe worthy enough---then he decides to add some gas! Maybe you're the dipstick?
@@KStewart-th4sk The guy who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground...real dill weed!!
@@kenuber4766 You must work for kabota
@@-night--hawk-8457 Nope, been around Cat and John Deere Pony Motors though....And I'm telling you, this guy needs a refresher course on starting a diesel engine with a pony motor,
Cool
I could go the rest of my life without starting another pony motor. I love the old Cats but I have no love for pony motors.
Wimp. Nothing wrong with a pony motor. Unless you don't know what you're doing
that cab have a heater?
Dunno, but we could see that it has 24/7 air conditioning, the 360-version, too. That poor old girl could use some bondo and paint, lol....
Yes they come in packs of 20 🚬
Looks like a heater to the right of the driver's seat (black box with air nozzles) 0:34
Вот это запуск, просто издевательство над пускачём. Бедолага синий стал наверное от перегрева 🤣🤣🤣
I luv big cats
Amazing the windscreens don't fall out.
It's not from overuse of glass cleaner...
Are you kidding those Fins don't need all that shit. He's so tough he's wearing sneakers.
When pilot motors are good they are good but fun when not good most neglected engine
What no heat?
once the engine gets up to operating temp it will keep the cab half decent. unless he's confident the old brute ain't burning a little oil and he likes working on pony motors, he should have pulled a couple dipsticks
That old cat is on life # 9
Yes it is,but there is still slot around...On here looks like the newer stuff is smaller, bigger stuff for the bigger jobs...
I don't know anything about bulldozers except that once upon a time they used cables and now they don't. But what I'd like to know is - and I mean nothing disrespectful to any Fins - why on earth would you want to live in a place this cold?
Don't forget to put fuel in the pony motor
Love that old D8. But, you really do need to brush up on your stating procedure
on that cold engine.
I agree, wanted to knock some sense into him, ever hear of a little ether? Don't just hold the starter over and over if it doesn't hit.
@@scampsboytes9088 whats it matter. Its a pony engine not an electrical starter motor. He let the pony run a moment before opening its throttle and cranking the diesel over
@@tractorboy31 Well what did you think he was starting the pony engine with when he was engaging the ELECTRICAL STARTER MOTOR for what seemed like forever---then decides he better put in some gas!
@@KStewart-th4sk Yes. That was probably a teenager. The canvas high top sneaker kind of pointed in that direction. Who, with any sense, doesn't check the gas in something like this, before trying to start it? Surprised he didn't burn the starter up, or a battery cable, or both.
Is the Pony motor liquid cooled? And does it use the same cooling system if so?
Yes, the pony motor uses the cooling system of the main engine. In fact, the pony is warming up the main engine in such a manner that it's raising the coolant temperature.
@@alenugarkovic1848 Very nice. I've always had a soft spot for the Old Cat dozers. Just never had a chance to try out a pony motor machine. My first dozer ever was a D9G, serial number 66a9560
Greetings from Argentina 🇦🇷 @vida serrana
Oisko myytävänä?
Tämä yksilö ei ole kaupan.
And now its break time...so turn it off
да с таким пускачем сдохнуть можно,у меня на юмзике шмырголкой с первого раза все заводится,а тут со стартером дрочит 5 минут,регулировка магнето,нормальная свеча,сальники целые,компрессия и все будет работать,еще карб исправный
Saamarin komee Pillari! Näitäkin vielä Suomessa, onko minkälaisessa käytössä nykyään? Mielellään näkisi enemmänkin videoita tästä.
😢
Jesus......
Isn't a subtle starter is it?
Gahh the rust is gonna eat that thing alive lol
That's funny. That's exactly what your mama said about you
ужас, гонять пускач 7 минут ?
Putting gas in the pony motor is a plus
Сколько же лет ему
change combustion chambers put 6 glow plugs start lot faster dont open trottle two much flood her wifh diesal casing all that white smoke
1955 - 1961 ?
If it takes this long to start the diesel, there is likely a fuel pressure, injector spray pattern or compression issue!
@@remb9614 it doesn't have glowplugs.
VLV
Yea you’re fired
you ever heard of starting fluid? It is cold out there.
We do not use starting fluid. Because it consumes the engine.
@@jeres5171 😂😂😂😂😂
@@jeres5171 😂😂😂
@@jeres5171 Funny fact - in Australia & New Zealand starting fluid (ether) has the trade name `Start yer bastard' 🤣
@@jeres5171 Don't make it an ether baby.
Didn't even check the oil or coolant.
Typical operator.
Very very very very poor video!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....................... mmmmmmmmmmmmm
Nice