3/12 C64 repair using a pen oscilloscope (Hantek PSO2020 Review)
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- čas přidán 25. 06. 2024
- #c64 #commodore #repair
Time for another review of an inexpensive oscilloscope. This time we have the Hantek PSO2020 in an interesting and unique for factor. It's cheap but will it work well enough to allow me to figure out what's wrong with this broken Commodore 64?
0:00 Intro
1:13 Hantek PSO2020 Review
10:04 C64 Repair
26:51 Summary / Outro
Budget scope reviews:
Hantek 6022BE Review: • How good can a new $60...
Hantek 2C42 Review: • Testing a $125 2-chann...
Hantek PSO2020 Review: • 3/12 C64 repair using ...
ZEEWEII DSO1511G review: • 4/12 C64 repair using ...
Episode 1: • 2/12 C64 black screen ...
Episode 2: • 1/12 C64 repair: "Out ...
Episode 3: This episode!
Episode 4: Coming soon!
--- Video Links
Purchase links (As of Aug 2022)
amzn.to/3PVt6O6 (Amazon, $79)
www.aliexpress.com/item/22518... (AliExpress, $60 shipped)
Hantek PSO2020
www.hantek.com/products/detail...
Adrian's Digital Basement Merch store:
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Support the channel on Patreon:
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-- Tools
Deoxit D5:
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O-Ring Pick Set: (I use these to lift chips off boards)
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Elenco Electronics LP-560 Logic Probe:
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Hakko FR301 Desoldering Iron:
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Rigol DS1054Z Four Channel Oscilloscope:
www.rigolna.com/products/digi...
Head Worn Magnifying Goggles / Dual Lens Flip-In Head Magnifier:
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TL866II Plus Chip Tester and EPROM programmer: (The MiniPro)
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TS100 Soldering Iron:
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EEVBlog 121GW Multimeter:
www.eevblog.com/product/121gw/
DSLogic Basic Logic Analyzer:
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Magnetic Screw Holder:
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Universal ZIP sockets: (clones, used on my ZIF-64 test machine)
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RetroTink 2X Upconverter: (to hook up something like a C64 to HDMI)
www.retrotink.com/
Plato (Clone) Side Cutters: (order five)
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Heat Sinks:
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Little squeezy bottles: (available elsewhere too)
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--- Links
My GitHub repository:
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Commodore Computer Club / Vancouver, WA - Portland, OR - PDX Commodore Users Group
www.commodorecomputerclub.com/
--- Instructional videos
My video on damage-free chip removal:
• How to remove chips wi...
--- Music
Intro music and other tracks by:
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@itsnathandivino - Věda a technologie
The BNC adapter is to allow you to connect a standard oscilloscope probe, so you don't have the weight of the unit in your hand for long periods.
I bet the R/S button on the scope stands for Run/Stop.
And when you have a Commodore 64 of all things right there, Run/Stop should be quite obvious, right? :)
I came here to comment this. Full-size scopes have a "Run/Stop" button which performs the same function. They just have enough real estate to spell the whole words out.
Unless it ran before and you stopped it in which case the R stands for Resume 😆
The difference of the test harness > Rev. 0 is:
The keyboard feedbacks and the control port feedbacks are the same and both go to CIA 1. So actually, you have to test two passes, one with keyboard dongle and one without. The newer revision not only switches the user port feedbacks (like the original), but also the keyboard feedbacks. So you fully test the ports without removing the keyboard dongle. And the switching happens on the user port dongle. That is the reason for the 3rd 4066 on that dongle.
The feed trough on the cassette dongle is also quite useful. The feedbacks for the cassette port are also on the user port dongle. So connecting it without the user port dongle, it is completely neutral. It indicates the motor and sense signal. You can also use it to tap the 5V on the cassette port of the PET, because the PET does not provide it on the user port. Also, it works with the VIC-20 test harness. And you can easily probe the cassette signals with the scope.
Just as a reminder for some, USB ports on a desktop pc are not isolated from the mains earth/neutral. Keep that in mind when using the ground clip on that probe, or you could have a very bad day (and so could your pc). I have no idea how that Hantek probe is wired internally, or what type of circuits people would try to use this probe on. Safety first.
Wonder what the maximum input voltage is on that. Could just run it on a laptop or tablet thats running on battery to isolate from mains.
@@Discretesignals Specs say 50V @ no attenuation, but honestly I don't think I would run it over half that. Also I have no idea what the attenuation actually is since it's not in the specs, unless I missed it. A laptop would be safer, yes.
The Hantek 6022BE is not isolated from the USB ports, so my gamble is this cheap oscilloscope isn't either. So use an battery powered laptop and/or an isolation transformer for high voltage stuff. It doesn't affect the usefulness of the scope a lot, you just have to be aware about it.
It's most definitely not an isolated design -- not on something this cheap. Someone else mentioned the Owon VDS1022I which is a USB scope that does use an isolated design, and looks to be quite a bit better. (Also nearly 2x more expensive)
Also some USB ports are shared resources, so you won't get the full bandwidth/power.
Thanks for making what you do seem accessible to those with less experience than you. Your content is inspiring.
Definitely not my favourite of the three Hanteks you've tested, but thanks for showing us what they can (and can't) do. I appreciate the unbiased tests of budget gear doing real-world things. Not everyone is in a position to drop hundreds of dollars on a tool they may only use a few times a year, and these low-end scopes are fine for that use case.
Can't wait to see the other 9 C64 repairs in the series.
"I'm going to tell you the good points, the bad points." Not having shills on CZcams is very useful. Thank you, Adrian.
I really like following along in the longer videos. I was a Spectrum kid, so the C64 is something I'm not familiar with, but I'm enjoying these repair videos.
Thank you Adrian, you giving me such an inspiration, you give me new interest, confidence and building my electronic lab step by step. You explain so nice and clear. I have early electronic interest and experience since the 1980s. And also have college education in electronics. Got bored and started programming for 15 years, then got back interest for connect electronics and programming. You have inspired me start buy tools and start with PCB soldering, reparations etc. Thanks Adrian! Also I got a C64 in 1984. Along with s lot of other computers. So very interesting Chanels you have. Thanks
Great video Adrian! I love the budget troubleshoot setup!
Good to see less expensive tools evaluated and reviewed. A definite help to those who want to repair systems on a budget!
Love the C64 videos. Brings back so many good memories. The eighties simply were the best. Great music, computers you could really tinker with. And of course Back to the Future.
Appreciate the expense and effort to bring us all no B>S reviews on tech and your advice is priceless.
Dude, you are great! Kudos! cheers from Mexico
Just found your channel. Awesome video . Love to get my hands on a commodore. Was thinking about getting one of these. Great video
Great video as usual. I think the T button which seemed not to work does actually work, it just made minute adjustments but I think I saw the trace shifting horizontally. Try holding it or pressing it one direction for a while! Those are nice little tools for the price indeed.
A repair and a review and a bit of a newbie guide for c64 diagnostics and repairs. Overall a good video
"A whole lot of cool garbage" Demo coming your way, Christmas 84!
everytime you bust the 8 bit dance party, i flashback to 1985 and am in awe of the graphics you're kicking through that C64.
That t-shirt is amazing
It was a special edition on my merch store for a while, but it's no longer available.
@@adriansdigitalbasement Bring it back please! I'd buy one in a heartbeat.
love the dancing you do to the 8bit dance party LOL
Omg Adrian's shirt is fantastic.
Love the shirt!
The DVM was showing RMS. The blinking green light means it's connected to the application.
i really like my 4 channel Hantek 6254BC. the 4 channels are very nice to visualize timing differences of different signals in the computer like clk, r/w, cs, d0
Troubleshooting before de-soldering is always good advice. I see so many people attribute pretty much every failure mode to the PLA and while that is certainly common, I think of the half-dozen C64's I've fixed, none of them were bad PLAs.
Might be interesting in a case like this to see the difference in behaviour between this device, your much better logic analyzer, and a simple logic probe when poking around to track this down (of course in this particular case it's already known where to poke so a known failure(s) may be a good example to use)
I do like the 4-way screen... that's pretty interesting :)
Agreed. Its pretty useful.
I just liked your video 10s in so I subscribed.
The Hantek that you've not reviewed is the IDSO1070A which uses a wifi connection to connect to ether a PC or a tablet. It's battery powered and so is 100% isolated. The one I have allowed me to use the windows sofftware in Linux via wine. It also seems to have hardware triggering.
you kill me with that 8 bit dance party lmao
Heh, nice you have the 128D harness now.. I tested that for Sven for cable length etc on my 128DCRs. But you still do need an adapter to make the tape port connector work, a 128DCR (metal case 128D) has no room for the 'ears' of the one you have.
16:14 oh awesomeness i love that 4 way videos it what we wanted to see n hope it make it easy for edit video for yourself
It is all new to me. I never had anything like this. In the past, I swapped chips (esp. with a 1541 with a dead cpu or VIA, I forget which)
Maybe that is the last C64 that never was opened up. Melancholy thought.
I love watching the oscilloscope videos because that particular diagnostic tool feels almost usable to me. Someday maybe...
If you're ok with just audio frequency stuff, then there's free software online to use soundcards as oscilloscopes and signal generators. Pair it with a $3 eBay soundcard, and maybe some homemade protection circuitry, and you have a decent audio-range oscilloscope setup.
Definitely audio frequency isn't going to be a help on a C64 -- most signals are likely around 250-500khz
You can get cheap used analog 10-20MHZ scopes for line 10$ on ebay if youre lucky,
@@harisalic2568 Only in America!:(
8:37 The lowest button is probably selecting the trigger but because you are working with a uniform generated signal, they all look the same.
Have you searched for for alternate software? Great video as always.
Reverse engineering such a device costs a lot of energy. The 6022BE got lucky that some people did want to spend that effort, and any software developers can just find open source firmware, drivers and documentation. That... isn't true for any piece of hardware that Hantek produces. Hantek doesn't publish technical documentation, so any third party software will have to reverse engineer it.
It certainly seems similar to the 6022BE -- but clearly not compatible, which is a shame.
4:59 this is indeed a popular format for autorange multimeters
IMHO, if the Hantek probe had a scope ON THE PROBE itself, I'd be more interested, Otherwise it's an oversized, clunky unit making it MORE likely to short pins while you look at the PC.The other Hantek scope, as you mentioned can set in your field of view and you have a thin probe which will be much less likely to cause problems. Good Luck
The width of the probe tip (the last couple centimeters) on this is exactly the same as any oscilloscope probe, so it's not really more likely to short a chip. It's probably not going to be able to get into really narrow spaces.
I ended up buying a Hantek 2072 based in part on your discussion of it. My feeling was that it will continue to be useful even if I buy a proper scope at some point. So far I'm pretty impressed although why on earth they chose to put the measurement selection on page three of the menus I'll never understand!
Off topic question. Have you ever tried a metcal soldering iron? I’m curious how the t100 compares?
Y oure happy you been in the whiskey. 🙂
Since more and more people leave the Windows ecosystem, I hope Linux and Mac drivers and software suopport will become common for stuff soon.
Cool video. I think you should eventually review something like a pocket scope Ali Express has the the DSO1511G. For 50-60 bucks they seem good enough for 8 bit repairs.
Cool, just ordered one of them! I see it has AV output (composite) so that's kind of cool. Will be interesting to see how this compares -- it might be the new kind of budget scopes.
@@adriansdigitalbasement Ooh, can't wait to see that review. I saw a brief CZcams video (50 seconds) by o-scope showing the AV feature....pretty cool. Would love to know if that's worth getting.
Amazing
Good video, thanks...
I was thinking that compartment might be useful to store the hook thing and the BNC adapter maybe?
It looks like the osciliscope was doing a Root Mean Square on the voltage measurement which would explain why it would be lower then a peak to peak measurement. I can see a DC RMS label next to the voltage value.
Or at least some kind of averaging. Both are things a normal DVM would do given the signal.
@@russellhltn1396 It says DC RMS.
Have you thought about getting a Digilent analog discovery 2 or a digital discovery? Could work nice with your workflow as it is both a 2 ch scope and a logoc analyser.
Have you considered disassembling one of these Commodores and using it to build a uAX64 by Matthias?
Was the other T that didn't seem to do anything allow you to change the trigger point? Could the flash be a trigger?
After your video about the Hantek USB scope I was thinking about purchasing one, however since I'm the kind of person who always has to research everything thoroughly, I stumbled upon a thread on the EEVblog forum and it turned out it was a terrible device and there was a way better, slightly more expensive device made by Owon (Owon VDS1022I).
I ended up purchasing it and pairing it with a Raspberry Pi 3B and I must admit, for an occasional tinkerer like myself, it's actually half way decent.
There's open source software for it (it's also compatible with the Hantek btw) that's FAR better than the original software.
Anyway my point is there are most likely better alternatives for the polished turds that Hantek is making....
Perhaps -- it looks like that Owon is $110 from AliExpress -- and while it does look a lot better, it's nearly 2x more expensive.
For a person who just needs basic test gear, why bother spending that extra money? You can keep spending incrementally better money ... eventually reaching $400 to get something really good, like the Rigol DS1054Z. It's so easy to fall into the trap of "spending a little bit more" to get something better .... The EEVBlog Forums people are gear nerds -- they aren't generally fixing C64s, so their use case for things are going to be different.
The point of the video is to show that you can fix something even with the most basic cheap stuff. I can pretty much guarantee the better and more expensive Owon won't result in a person being more like to be able to fix a C64 over the cheaper (and definitely less good Hantek)
My first "good" scope was the Rigol 1054Z which I don't use much these days because it's not great for making videos -- but with it feature unlocked, it's really hard to beat... (I see it's $420 right now, funny I paid less a number of years ago when I got mine.)
@@adriansdigitalbasement I’d be interested in seeing the Pokit Pro on your bench. It’s Bluetooth in a similar form factor to this one. Used with an app on your mobile for a portable display.
I think the only 8-bit computer (not console) that i have ever seen and used is C64.I couldn't really understand how device worked because i was 5 years old or so😀but it was an interesting experiment.
Adrian, plz change the multi window mode view so that you are on the left, looking onto the stuff you're probing in the right window.
For those who perhaps don't know, the music from Donkey Kong arcade on the C64 is a conversion of the title screen music of Donkey Kong Country Returns for the wii
Close, it's a conversion of the title screen music from Donkey Kong Country (SNES), which was later remixed for Donkey Kong Country Returns.
@@blackblob500 Ah OK, I didn't know... Thanks
I think the bnc adapter is so you can clip a normal scope lead onto it
Guessing the last option on the control knob was for adjusting the trigger level. The software was set to auto, so that's probably why it wasn't adjusting with the buttons.
My best and most recent purchase was an LCR research pro plus... delivered this week and it's already paid for itself. I have a Hantek oscilloscope, a fistful of fluke meters, a rigol oscilloscope, and a rigol benchtop power supply but none provided such an immediate return on investment.
I did but the pinecil after watching your channel and my God... that was a great purchase too.
Hi , will you be at vcf midwest on Sunday the 11th as well?
I second that Atari 800 XL request, mine is dead and I would like to know if your fixing might help me.
digin it
Ive always wanted to know how long it takes from the start of recording to publish, and its 21 days apparently because the date is on the desktop in the background at the start. Cool little find. :)
*chuckle* shows the difference in quality between Adrian's videos and mine ... publish within an hour of recording the last bit ;) /Brett
Saw in the Sigrok wiki that they're working on a version for this scope.
"planned", so I guess anyone can help reversing the protocol and implementing that 🙂
@@francoisrevol7926 True! I wonder if it's a lot of work.
Yeah, definitely a fan of the 4 screen
The V and T with the arrows are for panning, not scaling, you can't see anything on the time scale probably because the input signal is fairly stable, so it's hard to notice any drift.
try a lower frequency signal, it should be easier to notice the signal moving horizontally.
LMAO "dance boi - DANCE!"
I like your videos
i run 8 bit dance party in my car sounds awesome. its best in pal version because the bass tones last longer
Imagine 'restoring' the screen and running the oscilloscope software from an embedded chip placed inside the battery compartment (ie a pen version of the Hantek 2C42)!
how would you hold it to probe leads on a board AND look at it at the same time?
At first I thought this was going to be one of those old Radio Shack probe scopes. I forgot that companies are still making scopes in this form.
Are you going to add your new "Let's take a Look" shirt to your Merch store?
What do you use for a camera, etc?
Oscilloscope glasses! beam those signals right into your eyes!
Now what would be really cool is if they had a portable model with a screen _and_ a USB connection so you can use the software as well.
The battery compartment is for leaky counter weights. XD
i think that pla could be fixed with a pull up resistor. it seems like the lower transistor is pulling to ground correctly but the upper transistor isn't pulling up to 5v properly
Ahhh how hilarious is Adrian's T-shirt...how can I buy It?😀
Unfortunately it was only available for a limited time at the launch of my merch store ...
A while ago I bought an HDS242 for 90 bucks. It's isolated because it uses a rechargeable battery. It has a nice and crisp display, better bandwidth, a USB interface for control and data export, and includes a reasonable multimeter as well.
I have literally zero idea why anyone would by a handheld oscilloscope without a display, that can only be used when connected over a non-isolated USB port. That is one disaster to happen.
Hi Adrian, I’m sure you’ve been asked this a million times. Why don’t you use an anti static wrist strap? I’m a noob, just wondering if you think they are necessary?
Wouldn't it be a great feature if the EasyFlash 3 menu could be controlled by both joystick ports?
lol that tshirt is brilliant
ADRIANS, What are the differences between the PLA chips PLA Platinum, PLA Plankton, PLA Advance?
Hello and thanks for the great video.Can you kindly tell me if it is a good oscilloscope to measure smps phone chargers ripple and output quality.i wanna measure the ripple on power delivery and qc phone USB chargers like apple and Xiaomi for the website I am making.i want my reviews to be reliable but I am on a budget.so I thought of buying this but I don't know if the bandwidth and the device's overall capabilities are enough.thank you.
Oh so this is how "fat CJ" version of a probe looks like
It would be useful on the go if it was like 2x smaller and had a case because otherwise it may break in transit.
Removing useless battery compartment and all buttons could probably do the trick?
It could be a fun project to make 3Dprinted case, but then 60$ is way overpriced for this toy.
Great video as always, thanks!
The not-a-screwdriver looks a lot like a leather edge beveller tool tho. Not convinced it's specifically made for removing chips, but it does seem to be perfectly suited for it, so why not use it?
That’s Chiplifter, not Choplifter. Very important to not confuse the two.
Left-handed here, so I'm obliged to complain about the pen scope's form factor.
Can someone post a link to the dual input USB scope? Thinking of buying one
Says the last product I got from this brand was kinda crap. Then says that he's not sponsored.. lol that made me laugh!
Hey Adrian, I am looking for a low cost portable Oscope... this would be perfect... if I could find the 100Mhz or even the 200Mhz version of this oscope... but I looked and can't find it at all... not even on the Hantek site... any idea if they ever actually came out with those?
There is no way those high bandwidth ones work -- this one can't even run at 20mhz -- so I would avoid those.
@@adriansdigitalbasement OK... I guess I will keep looking... it appears I might need to get the bigger 2 channel 100Mhz scope... know of any good scopes? I know you have tried several.
Yeah, well, that's very nice, but what I really want to know is if the Hantek PSO2020 is better or worse than the HP 150A. Shoutout to Usagi Electric.
It uses those new “wireless” batteries! 😆🤣😂
Two thoughts.
1) Is scope ground isolated from USB ground (Protective Earth)?
2) I don't know the PLA internals but I wonder if 10k pull up would help in this case?
I can't answer the second question. But:
1) No, it isn't. There's a similar oscilloscope from Owon that's about twice the price that _is_ isolated.
@@SpearM3064 so I would go with that handheld unit rather than this Hantek.
The hanging chads! The hanging chads! RECOUNT!
Never realized on the easy flash he has planet X3
👍
R and s may be start and reset?
If it had actual screen I could *kinda* get it, but it seems like a gimmick, compared to more "typical" PC scopes.
Like, $60 is cheap, but Hantek have 2x20MHz channel box one for like $10-15 more and extra channel is definitely worth that
It wasn't the RAM? But it's always the RAM, even when it's not the RAM!!! :P
It seems Hantek's software is made with a modified version of Eclipse!