Can Sora Counter ANYTHING? -- Random Smash Ultimate Facts
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- čas přidán 22. 07. 2024
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New character, new tests! Managed to get a pretty big video in for them, too. I hope you enjoy this final DLC-focused Random Facts video, and continue to support me going forward with more content :)
Also I apologize if there’s anything slightly off in the video, testing-wise or just explanation-wise, as I’ve never touched a Kingdom Hearts game, so I don’t know much about the lore. I tried to keep things based around the mechanics found in Smash and whatnot, but if there’s anything I need to correct (about ANYTHING, really), I’ll edit the pinned comment with it
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Chapters
00:00 Intro and Sponsor
02:00 Sora’s Counter
04:10 Neutral Special
06:14 Miscellaneous
08:18 Hollow Bastion
11:27 Slowdown Animation
14:55 End
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No thank you, but secure that bag king
Get that bread u deserve it
I saw that Banjo disclaimer
no lol
There is another fact if (as sora) you grab someone in statamina mode if the opponent sets a star with low health (killing range) in the grab state when they are thrown it play as if you killed them (the screen turns white), then resumes to normal but, then after that the sound gets buggy
mythras side b also triggers the fast counter interestingly enough
Possibly because it counts as a projectile? Villager can pickpocket the sword after all
@@tylael261 I think you're thinking of Pyra there.
I wonder if olimar triggers it too with his pikmin
@@extremmefan7305 Oh yeah lol my bad
Fun fact, mythra side b actually is a projectile
06:44 "sacrifacing" simply means making Goofy dissapear from the level while Valor form is active. It's just a gameplay mechanic.
I haven't played Kingdom Hearts, so while I appreciate the explanation I am going to choose to ignore it in favour of my head canon, in which Sora sacrifices Goofy to get a rad new sword
Nah, Sora just forges a sword from Goofy's body.
@@QuokkaWaka tbh I played the game and I believe Goofy goes ultra instinct goofy as usual and gives his power to sora so he can become more powerful at the cost of his existence for a bit. So whichever one you wanna believe it's still funny.
Yeah in-universe its explained as Sora fusing with Goofy to use Valor Form, and fusing with Donald to get Wisdom Form.
Where did people get "sacrificing" from?
@@Ixbran ikr XD
I like how Sora is pretty similar to him in ssf2. In both games, he feels very free and light to play, and I love it.
But he looks like...10x less annoying to fight
@@intensellylit4100 that’s because he can’t combo as easily in Ultimate due to its non-competitive engine
@@tjackknife6590 I don't think the term engine applies here. The game has been using the same engine since the start of the series, since it was used in Kirby Super Star.
It's the attributes of the character, and the game itself is geared more towards general king of the hill gameplay using fighting, not a concentrated platform fighter.
He’s not free tho, he’s 5.99
@@Tobunari The term engine can very much apply here. Ultimate is a lot more limiting in how much you can move compared to SSF2. These mechanics are all a part of the game’s engine.
Random fact: hero’s menu will be tiny if you open it in the training mode while waiting for a quickplay game
Oh my goshh XD That's interesting
i think its for fitting in multiple players
Makes sense. Steve’s crafting UI and Sora’s spell UI disappear in this mode, but Hero’s Magic UI is needed for the move, so that makes sense
It makes me think that they just shrink the UI behind the nametag
Something I noticed for Hollow Bastion is that if it's on team mode with 2 people on one team and Sora alone, with the stock set to 3 lives, if Sora dies once, it'll go to Dive to The Heart, Despite not being at 1 stock
Probably because it actives when the game recognizes that the other player/team is losing
@@PhanicRed true, but it's only supposed to do it when someone is down to only one stock
might just be math relative to his opponents team stocks, as thats now just sora with 2 lives vs 2 with 6, which equals 1v1 1 to 3 in a way. dunno tho just came up with this havent tested anything
In a similar vein, dive to the heart will not trigger if 1 player in a 3 player match is on 1 stock and the other two are not, if the match is a free for all without teams. At least two players must have one stock left in order to trigger the effect.
As a modder, I can tell you why the pitch changes for the stamina kill sound based on Sora’s size. The stamina kill sound is stored with the rest of Sora’s SFX instead of something like the common SFX, and the size affects the pitches of all character SFX.
Aw man I was gonna purpose that... oh well I was to slow
"Sacrificing Goofy" is just a joke. Sora uses Goofy's power, which removes him from the party for the duration of the form. When Sora goes out of Valor Form, Goofy comes back just fine.
Reading this reminds me of that awful Pandora mechanic in Street Fighter X Tekken.
@@TheGamersState what that
@@kalibur43 It was a mechanic where you sacrifice your tag partner (Street Fighter X Tekken is a tag team fighting game) in order to give yourself a boost in power.
Unfortunately, the "boost" was pathetic and wasn't even remotely worth sacrificing an entire partner for. They did try to buff it in a later patch but overall it was a wasted feature. Shame as well because the transformation the characters underwent looked awesome and the Pandora itself was the central point to the game's story.
@@TheGamersState that is bad
@@TheGamersState don't forget, it kills you ten seconds after activation.
I tried beating the Shedinja spirit battle with Sora. Everytime I tried to kill with a throw, Mr. Game & Watch's invincibility would come back on and it would fade to white and then resume the battle as if it didn't happen. It was super weird and funny.
Not only this, but the audio will be silent. PK already covered this "fake KO" glitch before Sora was revealed, but he should go back to this with Sora since his final blow breaks the game more.
A quick lore note: Drive Forms having Sora "absorb" a certain party member is strictly a gameplay mechanic implemented for game balance as evidenced by the cutscene that introduces Drive Forms via Valor Form as well as every later cutscene where Sora remains in his Form if he was in one when the scene started yet Donald and/or Goofy are still there. What is actually happening is that Sora is drawing more power then usual from the respective ally's Heart to access and maintain the Form.
Also it's definitely as much of a sword as it is a magic skeleton key. It's been used to perform some seriously impressive slicing feats just as often as it's been used to seal/unseal something.
plus kh1 ultima weapon is has an actual sword in it
14:45 MAYBE the slowdown checks if the stocks are equal to 1 when the opponent dies, but in squad strike it sets the stocks to one earlier than a normal match, so the game thinks the match is ending since hp=0 and stocks=1 but then the last character spawning in cancels that
Exactly what I thought
It takes a sec to load the next char. When second to last is ko'd, it may look ahead to see that no characters remain, maybe not considering one thats loading for some reason, then getting canceled. Might be because since it tries to load the next one the moment one is knocked out, some different property with sora's effect rather than the norm, the effect sees the game is over for just that simultaneous moment, plays the first bit, then corrects. idk tho just came up with this havent done any research
7:09 Joker's dagger also gets affected by sword increasing spirits, so basically sword increasing spirits just affects sword-like weapons.
wth is the keyblade then
@@leeum20real it's just some rad giant key. It hits like a bat more than anything
Random fact cause idk if youve covered it or know it - Steve on mega smash will have small blocks, crafting tables, and tnt. Idk how it goes with mushrooms or lightning, but me and a mate just figured it out a few minutes ago!
The reason for this is because the building blocks work on a grid based system (they had to remake every stage for this system), so having bigger or smaller blocks wouldn’t really work with that system in place
@@chezi34 makes sense, just thought it was cool
@@zenixsakai8326 yeah, just figured I’d give an explanation since it’s one of those things that feels like common sense but there’s still a subset of people that don’t know it
@@chezi34 exactly why it's fit in a random smash facts! And again, appreciate it
I think the special KO screen has the last sound tied to Sora’s voice files. All characters’ voice pitches change with their size. If the game considers the final KO sound effect a part of Sora’s voice it would trigger the size-pitch method.
This
It would be interesting to see if the sound effect is in his list of voice lines to possibly confirm this.
@@edwardnygma8533 It's not in the voice test if that's what you mean, but not all voice clips are anyway.
@@fernandobanda5734 True
Another thing that I found about the slowdown animation is in Sora's Classic Mode, all the battles except the final boss are Stamima Battles, some battle are against 2 or 3, if you defeat one and quickly the other the slowdown animation begins but 'cause all the oponents are defeated the GAME pause the Slowdown
*Sakurai:* "Kirby can't copy Sora's keyblade because he doesn't have a strong enough heart."
*Genie in KHII:* "I can't believe I'm saying this, but Kirby got ripped off."
Love how that implies Kirby has a heart somewhere.
Kirby would murder a civilization for fun
@@PinkGoldBeans6197 of course he does. he just threw it out to make friends is all.
Kirby has a heart. Used to make friends in Star Allies.
@@PinkGoldBeans6197 True, I'm pretty sure his body is made entirely out of stomach.
Something I’ve been curious about is Sora’s Side B lock on mechanic. What exactly does it lock on to? Smash Balls, Assist Trophies, Bosses, Luma/Nana, stage hazards, etc. I’m sure you could find some interesting stuff with this move
It also locks onto the ledge on the last boost if you're off stage
@@Chaos.A If there isn't an opponent to lock onto. I've accidentally SDed by locking onto an opponent offstage instead of going to the ledge.
Technically speaking, keyblades aren't really swords in and of themselves. They're more like clubs that double as magical conduits with the ability to become sharp or change their shape/properties as needed.
I like this.
What about weapon attack buff spirits?
So it’s a sword that does not look like a sword, but it can act like a sword because you can make it sharp.
My brain is sparking.
@@chronenojysk5107 so your brain doesn't die just think of it as magic. Like it has a magic skin that makes it look like a cartoony toy but hurts like a sword.
@@chronenojysk5107 its a bat that can become sharp
The delay after the announcer says “Game” might be shorter if Sora gets his special animation by defeating multiple opponents simultaneously.
I miss the old Stamina mode where after you Ko the enemy their character would still be there for you to knock off stage later if there were multiple players.
Oh yeah that was funny
Ok, so in KH2, Sora had Drive forms. These were gained after certain points in the game, mostly linked to gameplay reasons. These Drives could be accessed through the command menu once a gauge was at a certain point and gave Sora increased power, but at the cost of a party member. So Valor form would cost Goofy, Wisdom form would cost Donald, and more powerful forms would cost both.
Shoud I play Kingdom Hearts
and struggling form just made him pathetic, idk why they added this to the game
@@presion5628 Erm, depends. Which one are you starting with? Because Kingdom Hearts tends to be a bit inconsistent when it comes to core gameplay elements.
@@Avriel_Mimiga Anti-Form was made to keep people from abusing drives.
@@thestealer63214 is this real? i haven't played KH2 yet
The in game jiminy's journal literally refers to the keyblade as a "key shaped sword"
You can insta kill someone with Ganondorf's side b in Mega smash with mega mushroom during the transforming animation
Yeah, Kingdom Hearts lore is weird. For example, Donald Duck can use the magic spell, Terraflare. This is the most powerful flare spell in all of Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy. It’s more powerful than some of the most powerful bosses in Final Fantasy. And Donald’s cast is the only one seen in any media between both games.
*Zettaflare
Interesting that Kirby doesn't get a keyblade yet he _does_ get his own monado. You know... the weapon that's a *god* bound into a physical form?
Though I guess it kinda makes sense since contrary to keyblades a non-chosen one can still wield the Monado, even though it drains them.
Still, it's a little weird.
5:30 That’s just what Kirby’s Keyblade looks like. I think they differ between each user.
Yeah the keyblade is formed and based on the wielder heart, so kirby got a keyblade based on him
@@SuperMarioSwagger And Kirby's Heart according to Kirby Mass Attack, is a small Star
@@SuperMarioSwagger That ain't a keyblade bruuuh
I don’t know much kingdom hearts lore, but I think it’s entirely possible that Kirby _is_ a worthy keyblade user but his copy ability just can’t create an new keyblade on the fly
If you're confused, Valor Form was from KH2, and it removes Goofy from the party for as long as the form is in use. It disables magic while giving him extremely good combos
2:04 I HAD NO IDEA HE COULD CRAWL
Maybe Marth's up smash is treated as an Energy attack of some kind. Perhaps other attacks that use energy would be the same, maybe Lucas's up/down smash or Rob's FSmash? I wonder if spirits which boost Energy attacks would impact Marth too.
6:48 nah he absorbs Goofy into his clothes to use his power, then it lasts until the Drive Gauge ends, this does not affect cutscenes but you do stay the form you’re in
So Goofy's in Smash?
@@D_YellowMadness so is Donald, they just aren’t in Dive to the Heart, neither is Mickey, because **Disney**
How about stamina mode with Terry? He has a special animation where his hat Flys off of him if he's ko'd on his final stock. I did it with Sora's final smash and the win screen seemed to come in faster than usual.
Goofy doesnt actually die. You just borrow his strength, meaning as long as you're in valor, he's not on the battlefield. Sora also has other forms in 2 (all of which are way better than valor)
9:06 Actually, the hazards on/off toggle also stops the Shy Guys from racing around on Figure-8 Circuit, even when it's in Omega/Battlefield Form.
Makes me wonder if the is a projectile tied to marths upsmash to cause that counter interaction, like try dedede landing up b since that lands with projectiles.
The word for soras non-reflecting reflector is called a Deflector
What would happen if in Stamina Mode, Sora teams up with Hero with friendly fire on, deflect whack and KO the opponent? Would this trigger a normal KO or Sora's special effect?
Most likely Special since The projectiles explicitly become Soras own.
Only if the Whack reduces the opponents Health to zero, I imagine. The insta-kill effect of the Death Scythe doesn't trigger the effect.
I don't know if you've already covered this, but here's a fun fact about Spirits:
The Azura Spirit increases Weapon damage output and movement speed, and takes two slots. However, both of her effects are worse than those provided by Spirits that give only one of them and take just 1 slot each. That means you're better off equipping a Speed-increasing Spirit and a Weapon-boosting Spirit than equipping Azura, both because you get better effects from them AND because Azura's Spirit inflates your Spirit Power way more (which makes you potentially get worse rewards).
13:50
Omg he's doing the chad stride
Keyblades take many shapes and forms, so technically Kirby could be wielding a Keyblade of pure Light. The specific kb, the Kingdom Key, is what belongs to Sora.
I guess the reason the final hit's sound effect scales with size is because it's one of Sora's "personal" sound effects (presumably coded as one of his "voicelines"), and therefore scales like the rest of them and the developers just forgot to make it an exception, idk
2:34 the first hit of marth's attack is a windbox, so sora is reflecting the wind projectile, i'd figure it might do the same for ganon or sephiroth.
2:52 sora's counter deflects instead of reflects, which instead of making the projectile turn around (like fox or pit's down b) he instead only move the projectile away from him and attacks with the keyblade himself
The way the forms worked in the second game is you are borrowing the power of your friends in order to dual wield. In doing so it dismisses the friend who you are borrowing the power from, Valor (the first form you get after the intro) borrows from goofy thus he disappears from battle until the duration of the form runs out (which increases by leveling the form and obtaining more drive gauges).
Here's something I've noticed, Sora’s Forward air will pull you back in if you manage to move away from sora.
BRO that Spy kill at the end of the video is such a cheese way to kill someone LMAO, super funny
Sora's side-b deals more damage when you use homing mod.
I love that they explained valor form as sacrificing goofy its just an ingame mechanic where you lose a party member to go into a new form it has no actual impact on the lore
Goofy for valor (the red alt in smash) and Donald for wisdom (the blue alt in smash)
12:55 reinflating your tire with air be like
The reason why the special Stamina Mode KO effect has its pitch affected by Sora's size is that the sound effect used is treated as a voice line of Sora's.
I think the reason the two Sora tie had the animation is because it was done by Sora's attack (Firaga) while the other tie was just from a pitfall
I'm gonna try and explain just for fun. The "sacrificing" of goofy just means he's not available as a party member, he's not dead. regarding the keyblade being a sword, it can certainly function as a sword but it's really not. it's main purpose is about opening and closing things, although it can cut, not everything that cuts is a sword. Sakurai could've included much more if he wanted to like reflect, the beam (as a regular attack), or maybe even a limit system with ars, giga impact, etc. the magic in kh shouldn't be understated, anyway I hoped that cleared up somethings.
been waiting for this knew I would see you make this cool video dude cheers for ya and cheers for sora 😎🍻
From some experimenting with the special stamina mode ending, I found the following:
If you do a team stamina match, with Sora and another character on one team but with team attack on - if you have Sora deal the winning blow, but hit Sora with a final smash from the teammate right around when you hit the final blow, it overrides the special win screen. With cinematic ones like Joker's, you can get sorta weird results - if you don't hit Sora but mash the special button right after Sora hits the final blow, you get Joker's face to appear in the lower corner during the fade out.
Hey I just wanted to personally thank your for discovering/publicizing these glitches and thereby guaranteeing we get another patch. Very gamer move.
Yo! Grats on the sponsorship!
Just a small detail but I love how you animated the text in the corner at 7:52
(14:35) My guess: because when they get KOd, there's a final KO happening for that specific character as there's one stock left. Kind of a weird quirk as if every character is it's own player with 1 stock, but the effect only plays when the actually player is on their last stock, which they are when you KO the second to last. It's hard to explain in a way that makes sense.
There’s certainly a couple of moves that activate the quick counter despite not being projectiles. None in particular come to mind, but I’ve noticed it happening from time to time, occasionally even with strong moves.
So, the slowdown pitch changing with size is easy.
Its a sound Sora makes, not what the stage or background music is making. So it's affected by his size, as is all of the sounds he makes.
Hi, I only started watching Sora stuff today and don't own the character (been busy), but from your overview, here's how I think it works?
If a non-projectile attack hits Sora's counter, the opponent will have their state forced to be an animation cycle like if they had clashed with an attack (the timing seems static). Projectile hits will change the projetile's owner to Sora but not affect them otherwise. TRANSCENDANT hits seem to be what trigger that immediate version where Sora swings, I guess since they can't clash with attacks? I'm also assuming there's a grace period after the activation where Sora will still ATTEMPT to stun the opponent, but if that fails, he'll insta-swing. I say that last part, because I know Charizard's Flare Blitz can just SOMETIMES activate the fast-swing, but maybe it is JUST range or first hitbox, since we see him consistently fast swing against Marth's stepping hitbox on Up-Smash, which can't clank with attacks (unless im dumb oops). As for why this works against Kaclang, I do think the move SPECIFICALLY forces the character's state, which is why Wonderwing also gets hit-- those moves can always clash with attacks, it's just that the properties of them otherwise make it seem pointless.
'Would love to see someone prove me wrong! I see this move getting portrayed as janky sometimes, but it seems to work in my head. *shrug
13:01 Try it with the backfired Lightning and backfired Lightning in a Giant Smash, that makes him bigger than a Super Mushroom and makes his sounds lower-pitched too
The thing about the keyblade (specifically here the Kingdom Key) being a sword though, is that the object really isn't a sword. It just doesn't have a cutting edge. It's more like beating people upside the head with rebar.
Yet everyone complained about Byleth being a swordfighter when in reality they use more than the sword and it also isn't really a sword. It is made of bones which don't cut anything and it acts like a whip. Complaining about them is not any more valid than about Sora.
The KH finisher animation sound changing pitch with size suggests that sound is tied to Sora's character and plays like a voice file rather than an environmental effect
Maybe it's just Sora making that sound with his mouth
it is a shame that my fact didn’t make it in. when you finish classic mode, it has a special song that references his game :)
im gonna really miss this series
Both the pitches for special stamina mode animation as Lil Sora just make me think of when you hear that pressure release from a can of soda or beer.
Whenever one of the facts videos comes out I have to get a drink and go to the bathroom so I can sit down and properly enjoy it
I love the reaction to needing to sacrifice goofy. Makes me wonder how he would react to sacrificing goofy AND Donald to put white or yellow clothes on.
I think it would be interesting to make a video listing some of your favourite glitches and bugs that to this date have never been removed from the game.
7:05
Sword - A weapon with a long metal blade and a hilt with a hand guard, used for thrusting or striking and now typically worn as part of a ceremonial dress.
I’m a KH fan myself, and personally I don’t get how people could possibly argue Sora isn’t a swordfighter when the first two weapons he ever held was a wooden sword, then the dream sword in dive to the heart. You could say the Keyblade isn’t a sword but I mean it functions like one so... yeah.
That video idea at the end is basically especulation, and your channel has been mostly facts, it's a big contrast.
Great video as always 👌
The reason that the boss finish sound effect is impacted by size is prolly bc the sound is stored in sora's SFX, so it gets impacted the same way his voice does
In regards to Sora’s stamina finish pitch fact: When sized differently, all voice lines from a character gets pitched according to size. The game probably regards the sound effects in the stamina mode finish as part of Sora’s voice lines since it’s character specific. Thus, they are pitched in the same way a normal voice line would be. Also yes I checked the effect is not in Sora’s list of voice lines in the sounds menu.
8:15 "Sora's Keyblade is definitely a sword ... alright moving on."
I'm pretty sure I've had an instance or 2 where the finishing cutscene will also play on other characters when you KO the second to last character
Ike's UpB and Mythra SideB can also trigger the No-Slowdown-Counter, found that while messing around on day 1
Something that I’ve seen is that lifelight was made for sora as it kinda describes his reveal trailer
8:10 this makes me wonder if Dedede’s hammer is coded as a sword
I like the eindwaker sound effect in the opening, it sounded very cool
That the pitch for Sora's stamina mode finish changes is probably because it is tied to Sora's other soundeffects. Because the changing of the size of any character changes the pitch of all their soundeffects, it most likely also just applies this pitch change to the finishing effect as well.
Invincable Stamina glitch with Sora would be interesting.
Fun fact : If you clash Sora's keyblade against a swordfigther, it does the little *SCHLING* sound effect, so it's most definitely considered a sword in-game
The first hit of Sora's up smash also triggers the fast attack, which is weird.
It brings me so much joy to play as kirby on online games, borrow soras neutral b, and then just spam his neutral b back at him.
When a character is made larger their voice decreases in pitch. It increases when they're made small. Considering the pitch of the slow down is effected by the size of sora, it implies the sound is technically "given off" or "originated" from sora himself, in the same way his voice would if he spoke, rather than it being a static sound the game plays when conditions are met.
"I feel like I've read about Goofy dying about a hundred times."
Well, that's because HE DIES
It feels wierd to hear the sword clank sound effect when the key blade makes flimsy sounds,
It has caught me off guard every time in match
I think a "Future of Smash" video could be quite interesting to watch! I don't expect a new Smash game in... well, kind of *ever*, honestly - not without significant changes, anyway. But it's fun to think about.
Would JoJo bizarre adventure vs Super smash bros game would interest you?
Does playing as Sora on Hollow Bastion disable the possibility of getting the Sora version of Dive to the Heart? I've played on this stage several times with friends but not once have I gotten the Sora variant, and I'm starting to wonder if it functions similarly to Link on Spirit Train.
It's been stated not to show up when he's around. I forgot whether Sakurai said it or a loading screen did.
@@D_YellowMadness What's odd is that Sora's art did appear during Mr. Sakurai Presents while he was using Sora (Timeless River) and in Round 6 of Sora's Classic Mode route. But not anywhere else. Sora must NOT be in fight for it to appear.
@@bigcheese123 that has to be some odd translation because when I was doing a turned based RPG fight online, the Sora background did appear when my opponent was using a Sora. so im really not usre whats up with that.
I think you've received enough comments on this video (and probably will get more in the future) to make a follow-up to it simply based on Sora again. Yay more free content!!
Regarding dive to the heart activating after defeating the second to last character, it may be because the game treats it as your opponent having one stock left (Because they have one character who lasts for one stock)
Something interesting is that if your in a stamina battle and Sora grabs an opponent at low enough hp that the the throw will kill, then throws them after a super star touches them the fade to white still happens, but will then resume gameplay without sound
That KO Sound on the second last character might happen because in KH2 when a boss has two stages, the first stage/ second last stage of the battle would enter the animation as well.
I think size changes pitch up and down all the sound effects any character makes, even if they aren't voice lines, which probably explains why that's happening with the sora ko flash
Wanted to write this observation down, since I just discovered it while playing:
The semi-slowdown in Tag Team Stamina seems to be something that happens on second-to-last fighter. Only DLC fighter I have is Terry, and it happened when I was doing a 3v3 in Umbra Clock Tower.
Kirby is so innocent and pure his keyblade is made entirely of light. Because of how the keyblades can change shape based on the person, its entirely possible for that to happen. And with the key shape looking like a skeleton key it fits kirby, being hes a master of abilities.
9:20 In regards to the hazards on thing, my local tourneys have are trying new stage lists to see what everything thinks of hazards on. With PS2 being gone, the starting stage is diversified. Lylat being gone also removes that auto ban for most people.
The new stagelist also incorporates Northern Cave and Hollow Bastion with the former as a counterpick and the latter as a starter.
I believe that it's certainly an interesting change, and maybe for the better. I really like that every match doesn't start with PS2 and we actually go other places.
I still don't like Yoshi's though.
My guess with the squad strike glitch is that the count for fighters remaining changes first, and then the Sora-specific check to see if it’s the last fighter happens after that. This would also explain why it happens on the second to last AND last fighter, because in both instances the other players is at or below 1 fighter remaining
As terry, if you run against an opponent on the ledge and grab so that you are very close to the edge, then use down throw, something weird will happen where the opponent will bounce off the wall and be sent forward (tested on the pirate ship variant of battlefield against kirby).
The "Fast counter" thing that happened with Marth, also happens with Sora's Up smash! (Happened to me on a match)