The Lost Magic of Traditional Anime Production
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- Some loose thoughts on the drawbacks of digital animation, however minor, looking at old-school anime like Escaflowne and Cowboy Bebop, and new throwbacks like Megalo Box.
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In the depths of his Mother's Basement, Geoff Thew creates videos analyzing the storytelling techniques of anime and video games. He has been named the number one Worst CZcams Anime Reviewer by The Top Tens.
I love the classic style and great animation of Cowboy bebop and Evangelion
And Trigun.
And almost any high production cost anime of the 80s and 90s LMAO. Why you single-ing out the most popular stuff.
omg give me high fixe! Cuz cowboy Bebop, escaflowne and evanglion are my TOP 3
You forgot Trigun
Same
Nothing can beat that creepy, dark and ambiguous atmosphere that a 90s anime can give (Berserk, HxH 1999, Angel's Egg (from the 80s), Ghost in the Shell)
You should try Genocyber my man
Syfoll true. there's nothing nearly as dark and creepy as those now. it's all so clear and clean, with bright colors all around... even the new hunter x hunter series lost a lot of the charm of the original's dark atmosphere. it lost the sense of mystery and suspense. it became much lighter-hearted, and honestly that's not a good thing. i mean the reboot was still good, it's hunter x hunter after all, but the old one is definitively better (with the exception of the first greed island OVA, which was absolute garbage-looking)
But you talk only about the few that looked actually good. The vast majority of animations made back then was pretty bad.
maybe. but the ones that are good and look good are incomparably better than modern stuff
Maybe there are some that look better than the average modern anime... Older anime had their charm. But they don't look better. The digital art work simply permits so much more than cell animation. You would never be able to do the animation quality Ufotable does, on cell animation. Or emulate the artstyle of Madoka and Monogatari series. I liked how Experimental Girl Lain looked like, but it really lacked when it coes up to effects... I can only imagine how much better it could had looked if it was done by Shaft today. And is no only the way the art style looks, but there is also the fluidity of animation. Its so much better today... trough there where some decent anime done in the past, most of them had action scenes with lots of static images, and poor frames in general.
I'm a digital artist and sometimes I just hate the way some digital animes are made. Is everything too bright and oversaturated, gradient everywhere, everything pops up so wrong, there is no balance between the shapes and colors. For example, background. Some backgrounds are made in a "realistic" way, realistic painting but they are so saturated and with bright in every little piece. Old animes use to have realistic backgrounds too, but all the colors had balance. And about not well-made 3d, I refuse to talk about that.
Sigh. Lets just go back in time.
sorry for my english hi, I think if you use real cell animation you have to do good work or...it fail at all...not true with digital...with 2d or 3d digital you can do great things (but more time and more money and after 2010 there are less money for studios and artist) or nice economy thing
Exactly it just feels like there is no effort heart soul or personality in it especially from a aesthetic art perspective I draw alot myself and u can tell the difference always from technology and a magical touch drawn by a real artist I don't hate necessarily on all new anime and animations or anything there is alot of new good things. But it's always never wrong to go back and watch characteristics and details from old animes maybe if they doesn't look as colorful bright or polished up methods used in the art world of modern animation.
@awddrifter 02 the thing is, you can use the fill tool for the flat color. Half the time they dont even really bother with actually shading things.
what's really cool about older anime is that, because they had to do all the different parts of each frame on different layers, and then basically photograph it all together to compile it, that part of the process helped to unify the colors. at the end of all that painting, the way the camera captured everything it was seeing was consistent. in that way, those images weren't an imitation of reality... they were real objects, and behaved that way when recorded for the final product, so they had a leg up in terms of feeling convincing. when working digitally, if you have a character in a really dull, muddy, green/brown environment, but they wear eye-searing pink, you have to do a LOT of thinking about how to keep muted earthy colors from clashing with super saturated jewel tones. like, not just in terms of the basic colors, but like, how would these very different colors look under the same lighting conditions? can you get that to look convincing? even if you paint something that does fully clash and you know it... photographing those colors as part of the same painting, with the same camera, in the same environment, will do subtle things to at least keep it from feeling artificial, even if the choices aren't the best that could've been made in the first place. it's like... meta lighting. environmental consistency that comes with the territory when you take a picture of something, but that you have to 100% fabricate when you work digitally, because this has never, and will never, exist as a physical object.
also, I wish more anime would vary their line weight, and do cell lighting as well as cell shading! part of what gives older anime its depth is that they'd put highlights on the characters in hard edged shapes just like the shading, because gradients weren't practical to use if paint was the medium. so the characters would often have at least 3 layers of lighting effects... the base color, the shadows, and the highlights. I'm not gonna say that this never gets done anymore... but I see it pretty often where characters only have the base color and shadows. and depending on the show, the shadows might not even be like... dark enough? or all that detailed in terms of where they're placed, or how they contour to the form on which they're cast? and then the highlights either don't exist, or are only expressed softly through gradients. and to top it all off, in a lot of anime, the lines are really thin, with no variation in width all throughout the drawing. and I keep saying "sometimes" and "usually" because for every thing I mention, I can think of examples of shows that still do the things I'm asking for, but it's still kinda rare to see a show get all of it at once, yaknow?
I've had such a hard time trying to describe what I feel with old anime in terms of asthetics and I think you hit the nail right on the head.
Chi-chi old anime just have that epic rustic, retro, epic old feeling that just draws you in. Prime example is cowboy bepop for me and recently megalo box
Chi-chi oh and hajime no ippo
Deadman Raijin Cowboy Bebop was made during a time period where the mixing of hand-drawn and computer animation, were mixed at a good ratio. 1998-2002 85%-90% hand drawn, 10%-15% computer animation. For example, any scene within the living room of the Bebop. The backgrounds characters and accessories are hand drawn, but their computer's screen is comprised of a computer generated effect, with a hand-drawn inlay. If Cowboy Bebop was made before or after this window of time, the chances of it looking as good as it does, would be slim. The Cowboy Bebop movie, was made in 2001, and everything I said about the show, applies to it.
Flcl too
Yeah I feel the same.
Okay I’m an artist so I can tell you there’s a couple reasons why people can notice the difference. Firstly like you said the paper texture but more importantly, in digital media in order to color things you need to close the lines, in older anime you could have hair, or really any linework be open because each cell was hand painted. Closing the lines can make it stiffer. Watch the “making of freak of the week” to fully understand this change. Secondly, the art styles I feel like changed so much that they can only work in digital media. I don’t think modern anime is trying to capture old anime, so you have designs that work exclusively for digital, a lot of the soft shading moe is like this. You literally couldn’t have soft shading like this in traditional. - also regarding color, modern color schemes are wayyyy different than the 80-90s color schemes. I don’t think this has anything to do with digital and more to do with finding more pigments like magenta’s in paint more accessible. Notice how the 80s uses a lot of reds? Red was a much easier to find pigment back then cause colors like magenta had to chemically made. Simple things like this are why art movements happen. I think instead of wishing for the aesthetics of the past we should be incorporating the work ethic of these painters. A lot of background artists can be pretty lazy nowadays. Going for a generic look cause they have photoshop brushes that can make foliage rather than drawing it themselves. We need to balance efficiency with artistic thought.
I agree, a lot of modern anime seems very artistically stiff, with a lot of very similar visual features and artsytles, and I think you're onto something with your explanation.
Agree with Aran Testa modern anime look, i am not gona said bad but feel artificial, when you see it you realize a machine, make it
Aran Testa How do Poptepipic, Gem girls, Angry cat, and Ping Pong fit into that narrative? Where does Makoto Shinkai fit?
pikistikman exemptions?
You hit thd nail on the head. It's about substance. It's not about the tools but what the artist does with what's available to them. I think it's easier to be lazy and lax with newer tools, so the artists don't push themselves to break boundaries like they used to. They play it safe. Therefore, you get a more mediocre anime with less heart and substance. You get more fodder anime, and an audience with a limited pallet that has never been pushed to extremes who is content with fodder, than diversity.
I personally think older shows feel grittier. Even with bright colors, it didn't feel artificial. Which is weird to say when talking about animation. But we live in this world of Flash Animation but 90s animation will always feel better. And that's not just Anime. Series like Batman the Animated Series and Batman Beyond are awesome to watch to this day. I like modern anime too but animation and art work is hit and miss now a days. And I hate CGI being mixed in with 2D animation unless it's done correctly. But most times it's not.
Totally agree. I bet you're like me and hold 08th MS Team, 0083 Stardust Memories, and 0080 War In The Pocket in high regard because of those very reasons and more.
Done correctly how?
Can you provide some examples?
Not that I disagree with your comment, but just genuinely curious as to what you mean by that.
Speaking of growing up with 90's animation, remember when the final fantasy spirits within movie came out? I was just starting to get into decent anime like gundam wing and escaflowne at the time and that movie was fucking awful. No real substance. Looked neat but fell way too flat compared to the awesome shit I was into at the time (including the FF games).
Nah.
CracksDhead demon slayer for example
All I know is that back in the day, when a studio told me to put my grasses on, I had confidence nothing will be wong.
Damn that was a good one.
Just Some Guy with a Mustache are you and Some guy without a Muchstach related?
No
Berserk reference? 👀
Justin Y. EVEN IN MOTHERS BASEMENT VIDEO?!?!?
Remember Disney's deep canvas method?
3D model an environment and then paint over it with actual paint (something like that) it brings the advantages of computer cg while keeping the handmade look.
Something similar for anime might not go down badly
Patrick Gill isn't that called rotoscoping? im not sure lol
Not exactly. With the deep canvas method the 3d geometry is actually still there, but the texture on the geometry is hand-painted basically. Rotoscoping is basically tracing over video footage.
@Pasteloween Texture painting is something similar to deep canvas, but not having floating brush strokes effects inside a 3d geometry while keeping the same light and shadow effects, so you're gonna have to light up a scene in digital format which kinda takes away the effect alone.
I really liked the CGI that got slipped into Howel's Moving Castle, animating the castle that way fit the scenes just fine, and it never looked horribly out of place, unlike some anime i've seen recently that uses CGI for absolutely everything and still looks wrong because it's all plastic looking instead of painted.
@@LMMEjsmith ah yes, Ex-Arm
This is why ive taught myself cel animation and be a traditional artist. I absolutely love cel animation. Its super tedious, but I love it. I'm even working on one now haha.
"Keeping all my chrome tabs open?!"
I'm not freaking Woolie!
I have at most 50 on right now.
Excuse me... Oh someone else, nevermind.
“Whatever you now find weird, ugly, uncomfortable and nasty about a new medium will surely become its signature. CD distortion, the jitteriness of digital video, the crap sound of 8-bit - all of these will be cherished and emulated as soon as they can be avoided. It’s the sound of failure: so much modern art is the sound of things going out of control, of a medium pushing to its limits and breaking apart. The distorted guitar sound is the sound of something too loud for the medium supposed to carry it. The blues singer with the cracked voice is the sound of an emotional cry too powerful for the throat that releases it. The excitement of grainy film, of bleached-out black and white, is the excitement of witnessing events too momentous for the medium assigned to record them.”
- Brian Eno, “A Year With Swollen Appendices”
Champiness Wow, that guy hit our media today on the nose. Just looked up the book, crazy to think he predicted this back in '96!
McShmoodle (Knuxfan10) amazing
i'm sure 30 years from now people will look back fondly to how sterile and soulless current anime is
@@catalysts94 Cuz the future will be more sterile and soulless
There are things that can be done traditionally that cannot be replicated digitally no matter the level of mastery. Because traditional art is so tedious it makes you really think about what your doing because it cannot be deleted in a split second. I did digital art for years but went back to traditional for a warmer feeling. It's more fun to do things with my hands, to have paint under my nails, to have art with a front and back.
Sure we can animate a shark any way we want and render every inch of it's body, but there's a reason why Jaws is still the best shark movie. The animatronic great white could run a limited amount of time without breaking so they had to get clever, building suspense and hiding it until the plot demanded the shark to enter. Art through adversity. To paraphrase Jurassic Park, filmmakers have become so preoccupied with what they could animate that they never stopped to consider whether they should animate it.
That makes perfect sense, I love it!
"Anime, uh, finds a way."
I love new anime a ton, but traditional animation has always felt so warm and alive to me for some reason. I have a lot of respect for traditional animators (and just animation in general, animating is really hard lol)
I feel like there's a lot more personality poured into the traditional anime. WHile I do love to watch the newer stuff, there just something about how they took the time and effort to create the old stuff. For example Cowboy Bebop, Rurouni Kenshin and Yu Yu Hakusho all look amazing. it just feels as though it's more alive when it's all done by hand. It's very hard to describe what I'm trying to say lol.
Xenoriddley I totally get what you're saying! I feel the same way :)
@@Xenoriddley Ultimately i get what you mean. It's one of those things that can't be explained, only felt. I get that feeling everytime i watch something from studio Ghibli. However Spirited away and Princess Mononoke are the prime example of hand drawn, classical animation combining with computer animation to create something out of this world (It's worth noting that the computer animation was kept on a leash and represented around 10-15% of the entire animation for each of the films).
Everytime I watch an older anime I notice that I like the night more. In most anime I watched back then the night sky always felt beautiful to me. It’s something that I haven’t seen replicated in modern day anime
Imperfections that become one whole perfect thing. So, you loved the older production style because it reminded you why you were human. That's actually very beautiful.
Just Some Guy with a Mustache, you are a living fortune cookie my dude. 👍
Hajime Kamukura I was just thinking the same thing. Lol Perfect imperfections.
It's ironic how it's very hard to make perfect things in reality (perfection does exist in reality but usually at nanoscopic scale and also the quantum realm.) but it's very hard to do imperfections in an abstract realm (computers). Because computers are all about describing things in an abstract manner and imperfections are things that we actually try to avoid in reality so we actually have no real reason to describe these imperfections to a computer. If it was such as huge problem, A.i. systems would be in development to gather imperfections for animations. But since this is not a major issue no one is developing such a thing. And what happens is that animators themselves try to add imperfections manually with their primitive tools from 20 years ago (Adobe Photoshop and etc are examples of ancient tools that have no A.i. capabilities in them.). The current "State of the Art" in computer technology is A.i. that's the most advanced field in computing aside from quantum computers that are in fact computers that have a different principle from digital computers. A quantum computer is not digital.
Why are you everywhere
The uncanny valley doesn't just apply to the human face apparently.
In My opinion the old art styles lended themselves so well to sci-fi. Machinery, future city scapes, thechnology and cyber related things looked so good. Anime like Cowboy bebop and Akira were so visualy striking and rememberable due to how the older art style portrayed the future dystopain setting. The grit, the muted colours, sharp lines and the hand crafted look of it all could have only been achieved with the old style of animation that modern computer based animation cannot replicate. If these shows were made today with modern animation they would lose a huge part of their character and indentity.
jJE KUNTRA
I love your words man! You are absolutely right!!
I know some people don't consider it an anime but ATLA was fucking beautiful aesthetically and a great part of its charm was because of the beautiful traditional drawings.
I make your words mine. ATLA has one of the most beautiful and fluid animations I've ever seen. And the coreopgrahpy for fights is just superb.
i miss when anime was allowed to have different art styles
I really hate when ppl shit on Megalo Box animation. They dont understand anything.
PS Megalo Box is greatness this season
RasenRendan X I'm really enjoying it! Glad someone else likes it too lol
Hell yeah Megalo Box is great
People don't shit on Megalo Box's animation, they shit on the director's choice to downscale and then upscale the actual video which makes it look like a blurry mess.
Jabberwockxeno it keeps the style if an old looking anime. It's ment to look shitty
+(Meric) That's a load of bullshit. The ART DESIGN is meant to look like traditional animation, and that's fine, but intentionally downscaling and blurring up your image is just stupid, and it doesn't "keep the stylee of an old looking anime". Does old anime suddenly not look like old anime just because it gets a high resolution blu ray release? No, it still looks like an old anime, just at a high resolution.
Seeing Escaflowne and hearing the music in the background really made me nostalgic and tugged at my heart strings. My god, I'd almost forgotten. Thank you. For reminding me of those things alone, you have my deepest gratitude.
There's something about old anime's aesthetic that just feels more natural. Maybe it's the imperfection of pen and paper that makes the world (personally for me) feel more believable.
Traditional animation just feels closer to home for me.
Anime produced in the age of CRT stuck to darker tones because, well, the TVs were too damn bright.
Definitely something to be said about film grain, the way paint dries, and titties that aren't CG. I'll give you that.
I was watching an episode of Eva (still trying to get into it lol) and you're right. The older animation feels more...hm, solid? Impactful?
The only show that's came close in modern times, for me, is Mob Psycho 100 and it's still not the same. Oh, and MEGALOBOX!
Bryan Gray Eva isn't a great example, because despite the shit it gets Eva is still exceptionally well-directed and built atop a portfolio of super robot anime. Those guys knew what they were doing. A more topical example would be Tenchi Muyo or Dragon Ball Z.
Yeah... The art style was literally the only reason why I kept watching... HunterxHunter, DN Angel, Vision of Escaflowne, Fairy Tail, every other one of my favourite anime, for long enough that I got invested in the plot and characters. As an example, I'm trying to watch Konasuba, but every time I start I go "hey, I haven't re-watched Vision of Escaflowne a few hundred times yet, I'll go do that instead because it's pretty!" and just abandon the series until I've watched about twenty other anime. That's also the reason why I enjoy reading manga too, even when I've already watched the anime and know exactly what's going to happen.
This topic makes me think of Cuphead -The animation techniques used to recreate the Fire-Hose style of the oldest animation is absurdly time inefficient and labour intensive, but despite those difficulties it shines as a loving tribute to those classic works, with all the blood, sweat, and tears that go into making something like that. It's clear from its reception that there's still a place for antiquated artistic techniques every now and then to remind us of how we got here. Similarly the episode of Little Witch Academia where they explore Sucy's mind showcased a little of this, and it was, in my eyes at least, the best episode of the series for it. Point being, even though there's a clear reason and benefit to moving past these techniques, those who are willing to sink the time and effort can use them and gain a niche as new entries to a part of the art world we think of as fully behind us, and that's pretty beautiful.
James Arif Cuphead is some high-quality stuff, and the novelty certainly isn't wasted, but having had the pleasure of watching animators work on Skullgirls digital animation offers no meaningful difference in the way animation is actually made, except to save time and money.
James Arif I think it's called "rubber" hose animation. Other than that I completely agree.
Yes, I just couldn't remember what the specific term was. I knew something was off!
I totally agree, when I was a kid and I was playing Mickeymania, I imagined that all games in the future will look like actual cartoons, but only Cuphead managed that. The only problem is, that Cuphead was 7 years in the making and it is obvious why. Any kind of production company will choose less time-more money, than more money time/less money. That's why Cuphead, started from 2 brothers and the wife of one of them.
James Arif - that just goes to show that digital can do anything analog can, it’s just a matter of demand and the artist’s personal taste. I think arguing that the way things are done in the past is somehow better is viewing it incorrectly. It’s not mechanism but the results that the audience will ultimately be viewing. And the fact is that digital has the potential to do any art style efficiently, if given the demand - and thus resources put into software to make it easier.
psychologically speaking, digital animation looks wrong to the human eye BECAUSE of the lack of imperfections. this is also why CGI looks bad in anime. allow me to explain:
real life is dirty. everything has a texture, scrapes, imperfections, stains, etc. because of this, we grow used to these imperfections, since they're all around us. digital animation, however, is free of these imperfections and textures, and so it looks fake.
the myth that we only use 10% of our brains is just that: a myth. however, we don't constantly use our brains to their full capabilities at all times, and a fair amount of information from our environment gets compiled and processed by our subconscious, allowing us to focus on what's important.
however, just because we don't focus on something, doesn't mean it goes unnoticed. have you ever noticed that you're more tense than usual during a power failure? this is because the machines that usually produce ambiance in our environment aren't working, and we notice this subconsciously. it feels wrong because our world is unexpectedly different, and something isn't quite right.
-STAY WITH ME GUYS, I'M GOING SOMEWHERE WITH THIS-
Digital Animation DOES NOT posses the imperfections that we are used to seeing in our everyday lives. therefore, when we look at it, while we may not notice it immediately, SOMETHING looks fake, and some ancient, animalistic, instinctive part of our brains sits up and pays attention. because in the wild, when things don't seem quite right, that usually means that we're in danger.
that grit, those scrapes, the texture of the paper, they make every moment of the action feel more like real life. things look more real with them, they seem more like they exist, since they DO exist. this also occurs in live-action productions. the original battlestar galactica, for example, had a degree of realism to it that the remake didn't, simply because everything had to be done in a physical medium, thereby creating the imperfections that the CGI heavy remake just couldn't have.
the phenomenon of things looking TOO perfect even has a name: the Uncanny Valley. it's the reason why people can be afraid of dolls, why we feel uncomfortable in clean places, and why digital animation and CGI doesn't look good.
Could that be why I like polygonal art from the 32-bit era of gaming so much?
possibly. I personally don't find that art very attractive (I prefer cel-shaded high-poly art), but it definitely doesn't trigger the same reactions more realistic CG does.
another explanation might be that the more simplistic shapes and colour schemes are literally easier on the eyes, since there's less to process which makes it simpler to focus on individual aspects of the work. it's like the difference between finding a needle in a haystack and finding Jesus in The Last Supper.
Perfectly summed up!
.....true, i love digital art but i will forever be moved by traditional so much that i stick with it, i practiced traditional, its how i grew up, i think both are good....but some people are abandoning traditional when traditional is the heart. because of this outlook i dont know if i will be able to make it with my own traditional manga or animation BUT DAMMIT I HAVE TO TRY, i cant wait anymore, my soul is putting its all into manga not just of my own, i have to create my own original work or live trying.cant wait. cant base negativity on my skin no more. thanks for your comment double n productions.
you rock double, but lets be accepting of both versions :) but yeah i see the problems here.
Man, computers are rad. Maybe people won't mind when we rise up.
You already have, just look at mark Zuckerberg
Currently watching this series.
we need a combination of the two
james waka basically what megalo box is
I was thinking about how the Little Witch Academia movie used hand painted watercolour backgrounds. IIRC in the making-of they even stated it was to capture the feel of a whimsical fantasy world. Very nice touch.
grimgar of fantasy and ash
james waka had a similar idea.
Disney's Paperman is a great example of combining 2D hand animation and 3D CGI. The recent Fire Emblem games like Fates, Tokyo Mirage Session, and Shadows of Valentia also do this even though there's still that residual feel of digital animation.
I agree older anime has a unique feel and look to it that's lost in new anime, but progress can't be stopped, the benefits of digital anime can't be ignored, we aren't going back to the older look except in one off cases (like Megalo Box or the true beast of anime that's criminally underrated that is Redline).
What we need to focus on is preserving the history of anime as much as possible, make sure the older shows stay and that any new anime fan could get the same chance we got to watch them and appreciate their vibe and feel, that i think is the most important thing we as a community can do.
It's why I've been on a older anime binge as of late, just something about hand drawn animation that is aesthetically pleasing to the eye. It's like the golden age of Disney animation in the late 90's and early 00's that can never be met by any of today's movies. I really wish studios had the time and money to be able to do more traditional style anime with a feel that modern digital anime just can't fully capture.
True :/
Our college's anime club watched Redline, and a lot of the discussion centered around how brave the studio's decision was to produce it using manual techniques rather than digital. It really works, and the cel-animated visual style (and some of the cinematic moves it enables) is a significant part of that film's success.
I didn't even realize that movie was traditionally animated, but now I've got one more reason to re-watch it, keeping that in mind. I hope that we'll continue to see traditionally-produced works like this at least once in the while as time goes on, so it doesn't have to stay COMPLETELY dead.
I was studying abroad in Akita, Japan when my professor had suggested I go see this exhibition. It was by an artist who was from Akita and worked on some famous movies. At first I declined, but then I decided to go. The artist's name was Kazuo Oga. If you see Kiki's Delivery Service, Howl's Moving Castle or Spirited Away, you have seen this guy's works. His backgrounds are absolutely breathtaking. Seeing it in person as a painting was one of the greatest memories of my life, and I will never let go of the artbook from that exhibition. As anime switches to digital art, I think of Kazuo Oga, and his work. I hope that there can be a balance of both.
To sum it up: Digital is great, but pure human creations have a special charm to them that’s been lost.
Low Standards computers are a medium just like pencils , digital animation are also human creations even tho he made it sound otherwise in his video
speed bison, the real problem pointed by the video is that digital creations lacks the accidental imperfections and lost a huge part of the artistic vibrancy. It's like drawing a sketch : the more you clean it, the less it's expressive.
So computer is a great tool but at a master level you really have to understand the analog techniques to make your creations as alive as non-digital, especially when the media is a merge of multiple ones such as animation.
Oversaturated i'd say.
It's time to feed all the old anime episodes to a neuronal code and use machine learning to emulate the randomness, I guess.
Sees Escaflowne and Megalo Box
*instantly clicks*
Same, but I thought Escaflowne is an odd choice for a positive example of art in anime.
I mean... Those noses really are... outstanding. ^^;
RokuroCarisu lol yeah definitely one of the only anime I've seen with noses drawn like that
Hehe, click for Escaflowne, like for Arcadia in the background, don't need anything else.
At first glance, noses really disturbed me. In the end, because it's one of the first anime i saw, and it caught me at the right time (teenage), with a universe compelling to me, beautiful musics, (and Van... teenage remember?) Escaflowne remains my favorite anime ever.
It has its flaws, but story is good there are real bonds between chars, sacrifices...
Nowadays i feel like relationships are not so well treated or at the opposite, over and over (superficially) explained through never ending seasons
So as you can see, i definitly get through the nose issue 😜
I remember being weirded out by the noses when I was younger, myself. But damn, everything else art-wise is amazing! I'm super glad I have the DVD set. I re-watch it every few months.
Also, when I heard Arcadia playing subtly in the background - brought some feels.
It's funny because Escaflowne was one of the first animes to try integrate some CGI into the composition but not through 3D animation per se (look at the texture of the scales of the dragons fought throughout the different episodes.)
The darker palette of hand drawn animation really gives a serious dark atmosphere that just lines up with the plot. Hunter X Hunter phantom Troupe arc being a prime example. Just watching it felt like the characters were at there darkest moment literally and figuratively and they were in a nightmare that they had to fight through.
Dragon ball super feels so wrong because of digital animation, the scenes and the characters don't look like themselves
The new movie should fix that right up.
Mateus Mota Sales they look fuckin plastic and I hate the shine
The shine is the worst!
There's too much light its a cluster fuck to the eyes
I can't really put my finger on what's wrong. But it breaks the visual identity of the series. It doesn't feel the same. And for a series that relies on nostalgia, that's really really really bad
Finally someone that talks about Escaflowne, so underrated anime, but is one of my favorites.
I adore the look of a show like Cowboy Bebop, for me it's "the look" of anime for me. This is not a slight against modern shows but if I think of anime I think of that aesthetic. There's just something that is just so right about about the colours and the feel. Space Dandy bridges the gap between traditional and modern techniques and just looks fantastic bright and vibrant, loose yet net. When I saw Megalo Box I was blown away with it I love how rough it looks how "old school" it feels. Does this art style fit all shows? No there's no question but if there's a director and studio with the idea, the vision and talent that could take advantage of the hand drawn style than I say go for it. Let art be art.
You're spot on for this one. There's a warm feeling to looking at the old style. Obviously the enormous cost caused shows to suffer in the animation department, but the ones that excelled became tremendous. One thing to add though: the cost limitation forced studios to extend scenes so they could use fewer keyframes. Instead of filling it with mouth flapping though, they gave us vistas and pensive characters. I liked slow pace, and more series have taken that approach again but I wish it were more common. It gives me time to breath.
This is one of the reasons the animation in Boondocks and Black Dynamite really appeals to me. The heavy shading, the fluidity, the angles. You know it's digital, but it just feels right. lol
Forsure. Thats why i have such a soft spot for black lagoon, champloo, FMAB, bleach, naruto, inuyasha and space dandy. Hell even old one piece. they bridge that gap between the oldschool and new.
Oh yeah, I love how the older stuff looks. There's just a certain quality to it that I have not seen since the jump to digital, and I miss it so much.
In the digital world audio almost always preceeds the visual. There is more and more fully digital music being produced that you would never know wasnt real. We are still a ways off, but eventually the tools will be in place to bring back these older visual styles.
The real question is; when we have the tools to do it, will these visual styles come back? I dobut it. While I enjoy old anime, I think that if they could do it all over today, they would absolutely do it differently. And why do I think this? Because the same artists and studios who produced these works, where the same ones who pushed digital as soon as it was a viable medium. It isnt like it was a bunch of upstarts with their damn computers that took over the industry. The whole industry make a conscious move towards a different mode of production, because it made everything easier, cheaper, and simpler, while often producing a superior product. We remember the tent-pole masterpieces of the past with rose-colored glasses, while completely forgetting all of the crap and drivvel that was pumped out of studios at the time. These shows were great because they were great projects with lots of passion and talent behind them. Today we also have a bunch of junk with a few awesome passion projects that stand above the rest. And in 20 years it will still be the same and people will be asking why we don't go back go the way we produce anime currently. And the answer in 20 years will be the same as our answer today as to why we dont do things the way we did things 20 years ago; There is simply a better, simpler, easier way to do things.
Or put another way; If shows like Escaflowne were released today, without all of the history and star power that we know of, would anyone buy it? And the answer is no... or at least not in the numbers that would justify its creation process. It would be so expensive to produce, and garner such a small audience of weekly watchers, that it would sink whatever company took the project on. It is a great anime. I am very happy for the BluRay release. But it is absolutely a product of its time, and it could never be made today.
It felt "organic".
I really enjoyed your thoughts on this.
Hard to think in 10 years we’ll be saying “I miss the 10s anime style”
That's why Legend of Galactic Heroes will be perfect forever even having stiff animation...
it's art
The old cardcaptor sakura had this beautiful aesthetic about it, especially when the episodes were at the dark, an example is when Sakura was tested to become the master of Yue and Kerberos. The new ccs is not bad but it just doesn't have the animation charm of the first one, the characters are drawn kinda like regular flat characters, unlike the first one which made them look beautifully distinct.
Thank you. The human aspect in animation just seems to shine through no matter what happens, so when it’s all 001010001010100011010, it’s obvious. Makes sense with Rockman EXE’s anime, but not with anime that are designed to feel natural.
I love the new Cardcaptor but I have to agree about the character designs. Maybe it was one way they had simplify things to cut the budget but I noticed they have same-face syndrome. Just different surface details slapped on to the same base model. Even if the show does overall look amazing, that detail definitely puts me off.
I feel the same way about the old Sailor Moon and Sailor Moon Crystal. The former had a lot of different lead animators which made for inconsistent character proportions/animation priorities, but the show consistently had a great deal of charm in the character's expressions. No matter how low-budget and recycled the footage got, it was bursting with personality. Sailor Moon Crystal's characters look comparatively lifeless.
Jun Taiohara i didn't yet to watch new cardcaptor sakura but i still remember watching the trailer and said this to myself, something is off because when i first watch 1st season back in 2001 on my local tv, the arts is very beautiful and mesmerizing
Same thing with Sailor Moon, but in addition, the new Sailor Moon isn't nearly as great as it's elder.
Personally, this is why I absolutely love almost all of Ghibli's films, because they have that feeling of the tangible, the human in their art. It just can't be replicated.
My gut response is "The problem isn't new anime styles, it's a lack of choices." The streamlining is good, but because anime is a business, efficiency is the only way. And art doesn't really like that. We definitely get amazing work out of restrictions, but it sort of goes both ways. Some of the best stuff of early anime was attempting to get around the restrictions of drawing by hand, and today's restrictions are getting around that digital barrier. And both were dealing with corporate restrictions.
Major love for you discovering Escaflowne. It’s my all-time favorite series, and your thoughts in this video allowed me deeper appreciation for its aesthetics!
I love it when people discover Escaflowne. It’s one of my favorite anime of all time and more people need to watch it! Even watching the movie, I’m always just astounded by how good it looks! There really isn’t anything quite like hand-drawn stuff.
After checking out so many classic series and movies in anime, I have to say that I really do prefer traditional animation. I'm not saying the new stuff sucks or anything, but, the way that series like Escaflowne, the original Berserk anime, Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust, Princess Mononoke, Record Of Lodoss War, and Shamanic Princess are able to immerse you and create a captivating atmosphere is something that I find sorely lacking in a lot of new anime. Except for Ancient Magus Bride despite it being digital but I guess that's where we may differ slightly.
Also, I have to give you props for putting an image of one of Michael Moorcock's Elric Of Melnibone (aka Stormbringer) books. I don't remember who the artist is who did the art for the series but a lot of the old pulp fantasy artists were masters of their craft. Also kinda reminds one of the album art for heavy metal bands like Manowar. There is an awesome video by Razorfist aka The Rageaholic covering the essential books and graphic novels of the Elric franchise that you should check out if you are interested.
AnimetalViking 100% agree. Even though I know the work is so much harder If I was making an anime I would go traditional. I mean look at Megalo Box! Its trying to look old and that's what made people interested in it
Yeah, I've got it on my list. I'm more of a binge watcher so I'm excited for all the episodes to be released so that I can experience it all and be able to absorb all that it has to offer in my own time :)
Berserk is the most extreme example. The original show was awesome, but the new anime was so poorly animated and executed that it probably makes the original feel even better than what it really was. I would have loved for the original team to have worked on the rest of the storyline. Having said that, having read the manga, probably the storyline presented in the original show is the best part of the manga. The rest of it has been very hit and miss.
My favorite part of the digital vs analog debate is when people bring up high-budget OVAs with long production cycles as an excuse to why digital is bad.
And then, you knoe, go watch some saccharin shit like Kimi no Na wa or Garden of Words where everything is CG but you're too blind to notice.
The original Berserk anime had weak animation but the backgrounds and some of the still shots were goddamn breathtaking.
Lets talk about those old ass, long ass anime noses tho. Where did those go? Why is everyone's nose just a line or two, can Japan not support it's nose population anymore? Are noses rare now? Should we in other countries be hoarding our noses so that way we can sell them to Japan at higher prices?
I need my anime pope to tell me these things. Where is my anime religion based nose guidance?
Core
Finally someone who is asking the right questions.
REAL SHIT
Japan no longer makes Jewish characters
Jojo says otherwise.
That's what you take from this? To each their own...
"Stop motion what animation can't ever hope to emulate"
The attemps and influences are visible and inspired new cool 3d animation that *feels* like stopmotion but are not. Like the lego movies and the amazing new upcoming Spiderverse movie.
I'm just happy more people are watching Escaflowne. I was just talking about it with a Co-Worker last night.
to be honest the only problem i have with modern anime is the abuse of CGI. When there's an epic battle or an important moment from the manga that you can't wait to see animated and then poof- bad CGI strikes again.
The problem isn't even the CGI, the problem is that they almost ALWAYS use bad CGI that looks laggy and you can clearly tell it's CGI so it breaks your immersion completely.
I understand that certain shots are difficult to pull out in 2D and on a restricted time schedule, so the use of CGI eases the work of everybody, but goddamn don't make it so obvious!
exactly, CGI is an amazing tool but it shouldn't be overused. I don't have a problem with the use of CGI, I have a problem with it's abuse.
I miss traditional drawn Gundam series.
I know that feel.
Sigh.. lets go back in time. Come on friend.
No thanks... old Gundam series looks like shit.
theres a grit from original dragonball z that doesn't show through in Super. thats what i want back
That's why I can't bring myself to watch Super....it's too clean, especially for a show with that much punching and screaming.
Yeah, it looks like they’re made of plastic.
Well DBZ isn't all that good in the first place.Super is just more of the same.
okay. does dbz being good or not have anything to do with the comparison in visual aesthetics to super? what was the point of your reply?
the new DB stuff is just lazy. you can see the animation quality drop from scene to scene, with care only going into some fight scenes. they really banked on its popularity to pass off what's 80% trash.
90's animes like GTO, Cowboy Bebop and Revolutionary Girl Utena just have that now-missing aesthetic.
To be fair, shows like Spice and Wolf and Princess Tutu come pretty close
GTO is 2000, but you can argue it produced in 1999.
And those shows missed the aesthetic of 70s anime. It’s a cycle of change
I'm always talking about this. - This video speaks directly to my heart. I love the old anime style so much and I'm always thinking about how much of a shame it is that this style of creation seems to have died out. Like you said, it's resulted in a much simpler way of producing anime for the masses, which is not a bad thing by any means. However, there's a true loss in character when it comes to the feel of most series' that's tragically overlooked. So glad I got to watch this.
I love the style of the anime from the 70's-90's directed by Osamu Dezaki with character designs by Akio Sugino (i.e. Ashita no Joe, Ace wo Nerae, Rose of Versailles, Oniisame e...). The beautiful, hand-crafted dramatic "stills" during key moments, the richly colored atmospheric establishing shots, and the weightiness to the lines on the character designs made even the quieter, more subtle moments of those shows feel important. To me, it's a perfect example of taking the limitations of traditional animation and innovating with it.
YES.
Ironically, I'm pretty sure a lot of those hand-crafted dramatic stills were actually in part a cost saving measure, since they didn't have to be animated. The fascinating bit is how changing the process also affects the style & approach to the art, including things people literally never thought of until after the fact (eg the paper filters)
This "old anime" is the kind I grew up on. Those were the best days!
this video actually put into words what i've been trying to explain to other people when i say i prefer 90s anime better! the art has this really textured feeling to it that makes everything feel more real (at least in my opinion)! i'm so glad you were able to fully capture that and eloquently explain it ^^
I agree; I also completely agree with Geoff that the digital revolution is still overwhelmingly a good thing overall for all of the benefits it's brought to both anime creators and viewers, but I've been thinking for a long time how much I miss the old-fashioned look of the shows I grew up with, rough edges and all. I feel like I actually prefer that art style overall, despite digital's cleaner lines and brighter colors; but I can't tell how much of that is inherent preference versus just feeling starved for it after so many years of digitally-produced series, if we somehow lived in a world where half the series coming out were traditionally-animated and half were digitally-created, I'm not sure which I would think looked better overall.
It's the same debate that filmmakers have about film/digital. The rise of digital technology made filmmaking accessible to everyone and productions run FAR faster than before. Yet one cannot deny that Film has a texture to the footage that looks absolutely gorgeous. Which is why it was a big deal when The Force Awakens announced it was to be shot in 35mm.
G Gundam is one of my favorite animes. I've seen lots more over the years but I always go back to it. It's a cheesy, stupid Gundam shonen and I wouldn't have it any other way. The recent Blu-Ray release made me realize how utterly gorgeous the texture of the old school drawing/ink work was. Same with shows like Outlaw Star and Cowboy Bebop.
Maybe 10 years ago, but nowadays there is basically no loss in quality by going digital over analog.
OH YES! GOD GUNDAM HAD AMAZING ART!
i was just about to comment about mobile fighter G gundam! beautiful anime if you ask me
Core Ideas I personally find the "gorgeous" texture of film incredibly off-putting.
As much as I love hand drawn/ ink and painted, I think Megalo Box definitely benefited from being made digitally. It brings enough of a rough look compared to other contemporaries (in addition to character designs) that you get some nostalgia feels.
Plus, the nostalgic choices from backgrounds to color totally help to visually show the dichotomy between the city and the outskirts, something I don't think could have been done as successfully pre-digital animation.
Rei-chan I think that was his point though. The industry doesn't need to go back to less effective methods, it just needs to innovate new ways to capture the charm of older shows.
as a retro-anime fan, i completely agree with your point. i've really loved HxH 1999 series, but when it appears with its new version in 2011 i didn't feel the same feelings for this show as before.
the new CGI animation is not bad at all, but it's not good enough compared with the old 90s animation style.
A video that goes good with this one is “Berserk is Unadaptable”
Here's the problem though: computers are making modern animators feel inferior. There was the notorious incident with Miyazaki, where computer animators had created a program that could animate things in real time all on its own (setting aside that they chose to demonstrate this with a zombie animation for some reason).
Miyazaki was reportedly very distraught, saying not only was it "an insult to life itself", but that it saddened him that animators felt like they couldn't do better work than a machine and doubted themselves as a result.
Hell yes, I would pay per episode for anime that are hand painted. As a visual artist looking for visual stimulation Megalo Box has really been the source of my satisfaction
So, to summarize, along with what Just Some Guy With A Mustache said, part of what you're saying seems to be that traditional stories should use traditional animation. I can get behind that idea, for sure. I think it'd really add to the theme of the show, whichever one it may be. Anything with a historical or old/classic fantasy setting. Just imagine Tanya the Evil with traditional animation. WOW
My god, that would insanely awesome!
MizukiUkitake could be awesome
MizukiUkitake Ehhhh like I get it but what is defined as traditional changes.
Yeah, but we can all see with ease exactly what it's meant to mean here. Semantics don't really add anything this time.
Do clear definitions matter? If the project lead simply wants to use traditional animation, it should be an option, assuming the budget can support it.
The notion that everything MUST be digital nowadays is just sad. Digital art is simply a set of specific tools to create a specific look, separate from traditional mediums.
Art shouldn't remain so limited. I say we should give artists more freedom to express themselves how they see fit, whether that's through digital or traditional art.
freaking 80's and 90's Gundam OVAs.
Vust Valeo yooo
I like more Macross and Urusei Yatsura.
Hunter x Hunter 1999, Berserk, The Wall, Shine on You Crazy Diamond, Welcome to the Machine
War in the pocket
that film hits hard, so great and yet breaks my heart.
Gundam are cool but war isnt cool. people die.
I do miss the old style anime :S
Same! There's just something about 90s style Anime that feels more realistic. And something Digital Anime either just can't recreate, or just don't bother doing.
Even Gokudo has that 90s feel that shows like Trigun, Evangelion, and Vision of Escaflowne have. Something digital animation doesn't.
Nine_Tails137 Whole-heartily agree. I just wish I grew up with the old style lmao. I mean I got to see “Spirted away” and other classics but now I’m stuck with this shiny deluded mess of modern anime, fuck
@@nine_tails137 coz 90's anime was art, dude.
@@flaminak7894 The first Anime I watched was "The Adventures of the Little Prince", and back then, I didn't even know what Anime was until one of my classmates from High school told me.
Plus comparing shows like Evangelion, Slayers, and Tenchi Muyo, to shows like Dragon Maid, Shield Hero, and Kill la Kill(in terms of art style), is like comparing apples and oranges.
@@nine_tails137 Eh The Adventure's Of The Litt Prince Was A Anime?"
Honestly you gotta appreciate the time people put into animation back in the day. One episode would take weeks to animate. And I have respect for the people who sat down and drew the same thing over and over and over again with slight differences to make a few seconds of an anime.
Super Shiny Star Uh, weeks? Anime episodes did, and still do, take months to animate. The storyboarding phase alone can take up to a month to finish, and that’s done before most animation even gets started. If you could animate an episode in a few weeks, there wouldn’t be people in the industry literally killing themselves because of overwork.
Also, people still do sit down and draw the same thing over and over again nowadays. Most anime doesn’t use automatic in-betweening. The only difference now is that some of it is done via tablets and digital animation programs instead of pencil and paper.
Super Shiny Star people still do draw everything frame by frame.
I think I should make a video about this topic, because there is one very important thing that most people just don't know about. Yes, it's true that the paper and paint, etc. plays a big role, but these can already be emulated with digital media using SAMPLES from the real world. That's also how a professional virtual Piano instrument works. These are called *samples libraries*, which can produce every sound a real piano can. One even includes the noise the piano player makes which is the maximum I've seen. But back to anime:
The very important thing is how anime was captured. Anime was *shot on film*. If you're into color grading and photo editing, you probably know directly what that means. If you're not, no problem: It's the medium film that is so different from digital. It's literally like the difference between a film camera and digital camera.
Film has so many properties, advantages and disadvantages. To name a few: Film Grain, no pixels, no bayer pattern (chroma sub sampling), imperfections like dust and scratches and probably most noticeably the *COLOR*. There are many factors that shape the color of film. Used film type (there are lots), temperature, how old it is, etc.
Basicly: If you have good skills in digital color editing, you CAN emulate the COLOR of a classic anime. Here for example, I gave it a try and matched the colors of a DBZ bluray (remake) frame with the original:
imgur.com/wz7F9VQ
the art used to be so much better and full of details, now it's all plane & soft with over bloom, I just can't get over it
Another old fantasy anime that has that magic feel to it is Record of Lodoss War. That and Slayers were my jam when I was a kid.
I recommend Gunbuster, if you haven't already seen it! Or Venus Wars.
I remember watching Vision of Escaflowne when it first aired in germany. It was one of the first Anime I watched from start to finish. I even recorded every single episode on VHS.
You're lucky. In the US it got canceled half way through the season. For me it was the first anime I actually went out to buy on VHS.
riemaennchen It was on Viva right? Man, the good old days...
Same for me in France.
Gwenhwyfar Yeah the same times where stuff like Ranma 1/2 and Golden Boy was uncensored during the day time.^^
Atleast Pro7Maxx is still showing some unconventional Anime like Monster Musume even though usually late at night.
MTV had Lupin 3rd here in Germany. And on VOX the Anime Nights with Record of Lodoss War and Ghost in the Shell... Good old Days
Escaflowne was the shit, love the mechs (guymelefs)!!!! the music was amazing and so was the story and sadly an anime like this is very rare today
I watched Escaflowne when I was on high school and along with other old animes it does hold a special place in my heart.
The good thing about this problem is its completely up to the team/company behind the media to choose which approach to use. While technology grows in use and ease of use, older techniques wont just disappear, they can still be used by those willing to pour the time and effort it takes to get that texture-rich feel. Another thing I think could be noted is preference in style, personally i think the "old anime" look has a rustic charm at times, but I love the newer cleaner designs we see now so much better. And that's my preference, others will differ. It's great to talk about these differences, but I don't see it so much as a loss as an addition, then again, I'm a digital artist. So im more than a lil biased :^D Great video as usual!
I too am a digital artist, though my preference lies with traditional techniques. Drawing digitally is very convenient. It takes up less space, correcting mistakes is easy, and because of easy correction it's significantly faster because you don't have to be slow and steady to make a quality product. Even on a lot of my traditional pieces I have a habit of doing the thumbs/Pencils digitally, printing it out, and then using a light box to transfer it onto good paper use traditional art techniques.
Space is the bigger issue for me. My home is small and has a lot of people, there isn't a lot of space to spread out and mix a bunch of watercolor paints or pastels or let something dry where it can be left alone (Ask me how many times an art piece has been ruined because I left it alone for an hour and somebody spilled juice on it or a cat walked through some paint and stepped all over it and other surfaces.) On top of that I no longer have a scanner to put that art online, and haven't got one because I have no space to traditionally art, So I don't have traditional art to put online, which I have no scanner for. Vicious cycle
Yeah, with the long list of pros and cons that go along with each medium, I have to say the price and constant upkeep of physical materials needed for traditional art, along with the fact that I am disabled, leaves me much more in favor of digital means. Of course that doesn't mean I dont also sketch with pencil and paper from time to time, but mostly just as starting points for things i cant work on at the moment. Since I have a scanner I can easily just sketch up an idea, scan it, and then polish it up and finish on my computer.
I am very fortunate for how technology has allowed me to work. Without it, I doubt I would be the artist I am today.
The thing about anime is production times and profit margins are suuuuuper tight, apparently. I'm not sure it's feasible economically to do animation traditionally any more, so I guess what we're waiting for is software that better approximates the imperfections in traditional animation. Personally I'm more attached to the newer, cleaner anime, but my favourite anime aesthetically is gankutsuou so what do I know :P
Very true, variety is never a bad thing, if people entirely gave up on old styles it would be kind of sad, but then again something that has it's own charm and people still love won't die out. It's like how pixel games still exist as people like that style, traditional production will stop being a thing when theres nobody left who wants to see it, and as it truly does have it's own fantastic qualities that are different to digital I can't see that happening soon or perhaps ever (relatively speaking).
People still listen to vinyl after all.
This is exactly why the guys who made Cuphead decided to go with traditional rather than digital. You just can't get the charm and feel of the classics with today's modern tools.
Ikr
I think I must be biased because I'm a digital artist who startes out on traditial mediums and couldn't jump to digital fast enough. I don't look back at older anime and see the charm of traditional art. I see art that compromised with, and even took advantage of the flaws in it's medium to create the piece as close to what the artist wanted as possible. With digital art I see a lot of the barriers that kept artists from what they wanted to achieve being removed. I love the new anime because to me it's all so much MORE than things used to be.
I'm less a fan of all of the 3D that's been incorporated without taking significant steps to blend it seamlessly with the 2D style. More recently that's been less of an issue at least.
As an animator, I agree. Digital art makes things much easier and allows you to do things you normally couldn't do. Not to mention it saves a shit ton of time, especially if you do traditional 2d animation like me, thus drawing every frame from scratch.
Also honestly, the charm mentioned in regards to things being done on paper can be replicated on a computer. The problem with that is honestly just time and money, which no one has in large supply and those that do don't really wana give it out. Plus a large part of it can't be copied because it's nostalgia.
art is all about problem solving, in some ways the loss of barriers has taken away the potential quality that could come from being forced to work around the flaws of traditional mediums.
It's interesting seeing the different sides of this argument. I never even considered this outlook before you mentioned it and it's certainly true. Digital improvements have taken mediums like animation to a whole different level that has to be respected and acknowledged. I also agree though that older animation does have it's charm much like how an impressionist painting does compared to a digital landscape painting. This has nothing to do with skill as both pieces may be of the same standard with equal amount of work put into them. In the end it's always aesthetic sensibilities and nostalgia that drives impressions. A traditional piece may have it's boundaries and faults, but it is these same characteristics that connects many to the piece (not saying, of course, that modern work can create the same effect. Heck, vaporwave and throwbacks like Megelo Box are based on this audience).
In the end, I think it is inevitable that artistic processes improve, but luckily the significance of the past will not be forgotten, and the legacy of some older techniques may blend into the modern sphere in some way.
I don't think the problem is the tools in and of themselves, but the habits those tools cultivate. There's digital art out there that replicates traditional art to the point it can be almost indistinguishable from the original. Problem is, one has to go through extra effort to create that effect. Digital tools, especially if you are trying to move quickly, will tend toward a slick, smooth look. Also, it's hard not to take advantage of the magical convenience of copying and pasting.
I agree 100%, because sure we can do that traditional style on computer. But at the same time we have tools that can save us hours, days, or months of time. Not to mention who knows how much money. All at the cost of getting things like 90 or 95% perfect. Which is not a bad deal, especially if you have a deadline or a fixed budget.
And i've noticed it with myself doing traditional 2d animation on computer. It's very time consuming, even for a 10 second short with at best can be just 120 hand drawn frames not counting laters. And when I think about all the tools i have at my disposal and times i've used them before. I just am left thinking "i'd be almost done by now or just be done". And only reason i am sticking with the traditional method because I can really make use of the 12 principals of animation, and hopefully create that illusion of life. Which is something harder to do when you let the computer do the animating, well atleast for now within the range of stuff i've seen.
totally agree, the part about synthesizers is totally true too, music feels so much more alive when you have real instruments being played and not just synthesizers, that being said, there are some bands who use almost entirely synthesizers that sound great. It's like, it fails when it's trying to recapture what the old medium was trying to do, or maybe not fail, but obviously isn't it, but when it tries something new that's when it really shines.
Watched escaflowne cause of this video and I’m so glad I did! It’s an beautiful anime with an amazing score and great direction and animation. I even got my cousin who has never seen an anime in her life to watch it. I’d say its definitely a great first anime, Geoff your recommendations are fantastic as always!!
"-stop motion animation has a certain charm to it, that CGI can never hope to emulate"
The Lego Movie was purely CGI and looked like stop motion animation
just want to say thank you for this video. Found Escaflowne and I’m loving it. The nostalgia is beyond explaining. I feel so happy watching it and I am appreciating the hard work put into the animation back in those days. It’s an art style I love and miss.
Tbh for me the 80s-90s style can be summed down to oversaturation/contrast and crowding. Colors were much more vibrant as a result of limited color/ink palettes in traditional media whereas recent Anime tends to go super pale with many gradients and a lesser contrast in shading (unless it's creating a mood) thanks to the increased color choices. At the same time, perhaps due to the increased workload by studios, the characters get more focus than backgrounds. Unless they're trying to add context to a character by personalizing their room, a character's bedroom will be abnormally large with a huge emphasis on empty flooring and contain a bed, dresser, bookcase, and maybe a desk if they're a student. By comparison f you look at a lot of top-tier earlier Anime you'll notice an abundance of personal items on someone's bed , floor, dresser, etc.
I definitely think the style can be replicated (some Tumblr artists made this a meme a few months ago) but the animation itself will probably look either more fluid or stiff, depending on who's in charge. There's a certain 'shake' to older Animation that I don't think could be replicated naturally unless completely done by hand.
It's funny you mention the "shake." The same thing can be seen in older western cartoons as well due to having to redraw every single frame. Even though Ed, Edd, and Eddy was made in the digital era, its creators were super old school and insisted on hand drawing every single individual frame before scanning it into a computer for the animation. It managed to keep the ink and paper look and shake while taking advantage of digital animation.
Asher17 You are definitely on to something. Ed Edd n Eddy is a perfect example of traditional animation transitioning to digital but still keeping the style and feel of the old animation perfectly. The colors were more solid and a bit more saturated (ironic compared to Anime) but there was never a jarring change to the style of the animation.
Too bad new anime can't replicate the color scheme or detailed of older anime. That's the only thing that bothers me. That's all
As an artist myself, this video exactly explains why I’ll never swap my pen and brush for the more polished, but lifeless and personality-less medium of digital art software.
I can't watch new anime.. there's hardly any dreamyness like the hand drawn work. Maybe the people telling the stories are different too and there time has passed. But every old school anime makes me stop in interest. When I look on streaming services there's only like 3-7 things for me to watch amongst hundreds. This is an awesome anime explaining that feeling I have
Hai to Gensou no Grimgar reminded me a lot of older anime, a great show.
Is it because of the beautiful backgrounds that felt straight out of a painting?
We will never get to see the 80s anime driving panning rotationg shot again
Awsomeisimo can you link a vide with one of those as an example.
I dont think ive ever seen one or know what it is.
the first one that comes to my mind is in the beginning of the fist of the north star movie, if you look for enough mid to late 80s ova with a modern setting you will sure find it, also digibro made it in his new wid the pass or fail
Awsomeisimo thanks.
Ill try to find some
Enrique Cabrera maybe looking at some stuff bennet the sahe reviewed, it might set you on the right path
Watch Megalo Box
I absolutely miss the traditional animation style. I think something that I also missed about that era of anime is the level of style added to the characters. Characters felt a lot less cookie-cutter and more individualized. When I was young I would try to redraw anime’s like Trigun, Sailor Moon, and cowboy bebop, the characters felt unique and iconic where many characters now feel very copy paste.
Traditional arts charm would never die.
I definitely agree with you.
Watching Cardcaptor Sakura vs. Clear Card, it becomes very noticeable as well.
The original CCS, especially the first episode, has some of the most charming visuals and color compositions I've ever seen. Sakura walking through her basement and discovering the Clow Cards was enough for me to watch an anime I've never been interested in before for 75+ episodes.
On the other hand, I can't get myself to watch Clear Card. I think the digital animation and backgrounds took away almost all of the charm from the visuals and now they just look like generic cute characters.
Another thing that's worth noticing, is the shortcuts the studios take. Being an artist myself, I definitely understand why animation can't be top notch always, but the shortcuts the studios take when drawing far away faces, adding CGI people, etc. etc. can be VERY off-putting if it isn't done right. In that sense, older anime almost always looked better. BECAUSE everything was drawn in the hand, the artists created each character and detail with love and attention, even the minor background ones.
On the other, if CGI is done right it can lift anime to a whole new level and create art that's stunning to look at. Your Name, Violet Evergarden and Koe no Katachi are noticeable examples of this. Instead of using the computer to save budget and cut corners on places that are easy to cut corners on; they use the computers to elevate and improve the art beyond what's capable with real life layering and cellshading.
TL;DR:
Digital animation is good when used to elevate art, not cut corners
to add another example of well done CGI Hoseki no Kuni also gets the best things of its medium and expands on the art of the original manga
another example is Full Metal Panic, the older series is AFAIK all hand drawn, even the mecha battles are hand drawn, but the new series is....... CG'ed, esp in mecha battles, even tho the CG looks fluid, theres something is not right in my eyes
To Clear Card's credit, subtly character movements, especially leg movements, are wonderfully done. Something that the original didn't have much if any of.
Ana Barahona I totally agree! To me, the Persona 5 3D models are better than the anime too haha
rizka arifiandi Personally I don't mind too much with non-human beings and inanimate objects, but I can definitely see how mechas can lose their roughness and charm.
I think the evas in End of Evangelion look a million times better than the rebuild ones, even with the wonky size scales
One thing I think is important. Digital paintings also has its own depth and charm today. And in the future it will have enough depth to be appreciated when put into animations.
10:35
"Best *non-sequel* simulcasts"
...
"Sword art online spinoff"
...lol okay then
It's made by completely different people (3Hz instead of A-1 Pictures) and has an extremely different feel to it (closer to slice of life instead of shounen battle). The only ties to the original SAO are a few name drops and references. I'd say it's about as far away from a sequel as you can get while still being based off the same source material.
I wish hinamatsuri was on more states
All you are talking about is that software hasn’t caught up to the imperfection we call analog. Drum machine software has a functionality to add random offsets to simulate a drummer who is, of course, never going to be perfectly on point. We just need to do the same thing for other art forms. It’s software, not hardware, that is the limit. Which is good, because we already have the horsepower, we just need the desire to add these imperfections.
So I don’t think it’s digital vs. analog. It’s just art forms and demand. If there was a huge demand for analog-feeling art, there will be more art like that. But there aren’t, at least not currently. Digital is just better cause it can literally do everything that analog can. That’s just a fact, it just may not be as efficient to do it well at this point in time.
Exactly this; I absolutely love Escaflowne... but if it was released today it would absolutely flop. Does not make it a bad show, but it was a product of it's time. And while still amazing to look back on, and absolutely worth a watch, time moved on.
anime in the 80's and 90's had more charme, they had more ...feelings to the drawings.
Trying to switch from traditional animation to digital was surely a hurdle for the animators of old ages but today people grow up with technology, I think that the reason old anime has a more appealing look to it is not necessarily because of the medium but the passion and love for the project the animators give into the product. Today a lot of anime is very basic and nothing special if you cancel out 1 or 2 things. It feels like you are watching the same thing just in another iteration, maybe better or worse than the first time you experience the genre. Animators truly love their craft and are passionate and happy that they can do exactly this job but like you said, the masses of anime series flooding down the sea(son) have gems hidden in the dirt, roughly saying. Also, studios of old really have to make sure that their animation hits with people so they make sure it has good writing, nice design, is aesthetically pleasing etc. But today it is cheaper, faster to produce while demand for anime is higher than ever before. That's why they animate some half-assed night novels that break the suspension of disbelief under someone who cares about worldbuilding, characters etc. What I'm trying to say is, older anime has and had to have more love put into it but new anime can be faster made without as much love for it, though anime with new animation technique and love for the project can create breathtaking experiences. (Kill La Kill, Death Note, Little Witch Academia...)
One of the reasons I dislike anime these days is because I can't stand looking at the digital artwork, and the mass production of anime makes so many series' artstyle seem copied and pasted. From the mid '80s to the late '90s I think anime was at it's visual best.
It was. Studios were few and the ones that had the money, threw wheelbarrows into production and thus you got masterpieces like Asuka's fight scenes against the mass produced EVAs. On the other hand, also due to costs ... you end up with a half-assed ending of the anime (still looking at Evangelion)
man one of my fav anime of all time is FLCL cuz of the animation /sakuga. but the new flcl lost that amazing look and feel which kinda breaks my heart : c
Same really. I loved anime as a kid and even up until my teens. But I just can't stand it anymore for the reasns you outlined. I really hope a more modern efficient hand drawn anime becomes big again. Maybe some kind of mixture between the two could work. I don't know anything about animation though.
Not really, i love the newer CG. Ive been there at the time you have said and i did celebrate the change. I love Escaflowne, old CCS, To Heart, Sailor moon etc but not for the graphic quality.
Talking about repetitious nature of CG, the old style graphic is even more repetitive. There were exceptions like Escaflowne or Cowboy Bebop but not the most. I bought Sailor Moon manga made from cuts from the Anime and yeah it was repetitious.
AloversGaming You wanna know why modern anime is so shiny and crap? It’s a *whole* chain of fuckery so let me make it brief. Reason why modern anime all look the same is because producers have lost their creativity. Everything is about money, and when you have money on your mind *instead* of creativity, that leads to mediocrity. Then we have digital animation where it LOOKS good but DOESN’T feel right. That’s because our brains subconsciously feel uncomfortable at thought of something being “too” perfect (Uncanny Valley effect). Next we have the OTAKU influence in anime and why we have a lot of ecchi/moe in anime. I’m sure you’re wondering in your minds “why the hell are there *thousands* of magical anime fantasies? Why the hell do they all look the same? And why the fuck do the girls look so unrealistic????” Well my friend, this is due to producers pandering to these Otakus ( Japanese definition for socially awkward losers), and why a lot of new anime you see a heap load of questionable fan-service. This ALL boils down to the greed for *money* . This is WHY you have studios pumping out the *same* generic ass bullshit for the past years. Anime is at a ALL time low but hardcore anime fans would only recognize that. Only a few “new” will go down as a “classic”; ex: Attack on titan. Anyway that’s just my 2 cents
*Beauty through imperfection*
True words of wisdom.
your comparison to music hits very close to how a lot of musicians and music fans feel. We dont think it is bad, it just has a different feel, sometimes a colder or more artificial feel to it.
Max Mustermann most people who prefer older music don't think like you. They disregard all the modern music by painting them all by the same brush. Their preference lies more in ignoring the benefits that modern technology brings and putting on a hipster mask, subconsciously.
I didn't want to disregard electronic music neither do I know about the majority of fans of more conservativly recorded music, I just wanted to point our that as a musician or an artist in our era you must be aware of the different feels of artificial and digital creation of art to truly master your artform! ☺
How do you feel about electro swing? Do things like Caravan Palace's first album or Parov Stelar's song Mojo Radio Gang, timbre give you that old warm feel