My Problem With Green!!!! (in MTG)
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- čas přidán 27. 06. 2024
- I believe that in casual commander green is the best color and in this essay I venture to prove it. Green has the best ramp and not really any super big weaknesses!
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I’m so glad you’ve come to terms with ur cheating tendencies
But, big creature goes stomp
This is the classic green player defense when you call them out on their BS. Just play dumb because ur Unga bunga green deck
So basically you are applying a "c"EDH mindset to EDH to come to your conclusion?
Idk what you mean by this
All they did was point out a different in cEDH & EDH where green has an advantage in EDH.
Welcome back!
Green is King
Lest we forget that blue tells people outright no to playing the game.
Definitely blue has some really uniquely powerful properties! Without free counterspells though it can Ben hard for a blue deck to keep up with the speed and card advantage of a green deck. Of course this isn't always true plenty of blue decks are better than plenty of green decks.
@@OnlyLands-MTG ok what about the infinite draw
@@OnlyLands-MTG oh or the the mill
@jonnyexe1593 infinite combos are always super strong but I think most people agree those are cheating in terms of break the 2 principles as well. So yes blue has broken things I admitted this in the video all the colors are capable of cheating. People just rarely consider what green does in that same category.
@jonnyexe1593 mill is not a very powerful strategy... it's really difficult to mill 4 people's libraries of 99 cards when others aren't helping on that axis (when they are with dealing damage). Also mill is risky as you enable graveyard strategies.
Good vid!
Thank you!
And then you have Eladamri who literally cheats in any creature for 1 mana xd
green player plays 45 lands on turn 4: "ok its green"
i play armaggedon on turn 4: "OMG YOU ARE SICK"
cmon guys
The problem is MLD doesn't even stop green because green has a bunch of ways to get all their lands back from their graveyard and they can ramp to build back up fastest
Thank youuuuu!
Green Pride World Wide
Green can do what any color can at the cost of more mana (except for countering spells). They're good in casual because it's a slower format, giving them time to ramp up and get them their big bodies or draw power.
Also White breaks the game by locking down players (Drannith Magistrate/Grand Abolisher) and creating arguably the most tokens.
I love Reshape the Earth in my Niv-Mizzet God Tribal deck as it also does Gate stuff so it's a near immediate win button
I see what you're saying about white breaking the game with stax effects especially non symmetrical ones like drannith magistrate. But white can't really cheat in the same way as the other colors and the way I defined in the video where they can cheat on mana costs or card advantage for extremely low investment.
@@OnlyLands-MTG They also do exile based removal, dealing with death triggers, indestructible, and regenerate. They also access protection, allowing them to both ignore damage and be unblockable.
@otterfire4712 yeah white has a lot of powerful tools I love playing white but none of that stuff cheats in the way I am describing.
@@OnlyLands-MTG there are few things as hollow as a basic land searched for after a Path of Exile. You've put all this mana into a powerful creature like Wurmcoil Engine and your opponent pays one to PoE. Your combo piece and beater is gone, you don't even get the tokens for when it dies because it didn't die. All you're left with is a search for a basic land.
They also have access to phase out so if you were to board wipe, they can just cover their board and the creatures will be fine and dandy at the start of their turn while you just cleaned everyone else of theirs (this also preserves counters). Alternatively, they can flicker creatures, making several spot removal cards useless while double dipping on ETB or LTB effects (they also have stacks that prohibit these and they'll likely build around this effect).
I love green 💚 dry your eyes 😂
I love green too but it's definitely cheating
As a green player i can confirm im cheating
The fact 1 land taps for 81 mana is absurd
My first edh deck is azusa and I dont care. My goal is to play half my library and make 8 mana per basic land tapped.
To be honest most commander decks that are mono colored are very strong and can be super stream lined for their strategies.
weird that power nine is a 3rd blue cards lol
And the other 2 thirds arent even the other colors which is wild
but does green have necropotence? living death? cyclonic rift? Green is 'good' yes but it isnt 'wtf' . Sure it can ramp, but what can it do with all of that mana besides play creatures :/
IMO things are quite balanced. Why ramp when you can cheat things into play
I would say necro and living death both definitely count as "cheating" as I outlined it they allow you to very efficiently cheat mana costs or get tons of card draw for low investment. Cyc rift is super powerful but still requires the blue deck to get to 7 mana (I think a big issue with cyc rift is it's only 1 blue pip when overloaded so you can easily play it in a green deck making it trivial to cast). Creatures are also really really good right now and have only been getting better and better over the years. In terms of why ramp when you can cheat into play the answer is if you cheat something into play and it gets removed you're down often multiple cards and left with nothing. If you ramp then your thing gets removed you still have all those resources in play for the rest of the game.
In general I agree things are pretty well balanced I don't think green is like soo much better that other colors can't compete. If each color is supposed to have 20% of the total strength I would put green in the 23-4% range so marginal but significant.
Isn’t green the only color with no true board wipes?
For creature yes but they have things that can do it still and they have plenty of ways to wipe all artifacts and enchantments.
i am groot ;)
Me playing blue/black and not caring because I just kill everything and use it against them.
All my decks are cheating, because I don't have a play group to temper my deck building. I don't think you can in win if you have three opponents who are all drawing a card and going up one mana if that's all you're doing. Simply put, the person who spends the most mana wins, and the person who wins is usually the player who draws the most cards
Yep 100% and green is great at both of those things!
No one asked but
Turn one forest (1) Cast sol ring
Turn two forest (2) Cast Farkseek (3) and Three visits (4) with the two forest and sol ring.
Turn three. Cast cultivate. (5) Play land for turn(6). Cast Invasion of Zendikar. Two more forest (8) and a Sol Ring.
Untap on turn four with 10 mana.
This can probably be done with more cards or different cards whatever. I just know this line because I know about these cards. Even if you don’t use any 0 cost ramp to avoid fast mana outside of a sol ring the whole “8 mana on turn 4” joke isn’t really a joke.
It's not a joke you can definitely do it without sol ring even. Just turn 1 mana dork turn 2 you can play three visits into a other ramp spell. Then you have 6 mana on turn 3 just 1 more ramp spell gets you to 8 on turn 4 it wasn't a a joke hahaha.
it was funny to me so I thought it was a joke but green do be going crazy with the ways they can short cut lands from library to battlefield
Playing Lord Windgrace there has been multiple instances of having 7 lands and 7 creatures on turn 3 or 10 lands turn 4.
T1 Urza mine
T2 urza plant
T3 urza tower
T4 urza tower
T4 10 mana ulamog
@@thejuggernautofspades9453 we’re talking about green here buddy
I wouldn't call white a fair color though. Cards like Land Tax allow you to have a heavy amount of card advantage for no cost. Cards like Farewell allow you to wipe whatever is most convenient for you (and it's not even the only card in this category, try Damning Verdict in a +1/+1 counter deck or Urza's Ruinous Blast in legendary creature tribal). Maybe you have to work a little more to cheat in white, but it is still very much doable.
Land tax only gets lands that you can only play 1 of per turn so you need some other way to take advantage of those cards in hand for it to really be an advantage. There is a reason not every white deck player land tax it's a powerful card but again needs some assistance to really live up to it's full potential. Farewell is honestly the definition of fair it wipes away everyone's stuff equally. Now it's not a fun card and I hate seeing it but that doesn't make it unfair. If you combine it with a tef's prot then it's unfair. The other 1 sided board wipes yeah they are really strong but they require a lot of work and they don't break either of the 2 principles.
@@OnlyLands-MTG I agree that farewell’s effects are symmetrical, but the effect being symmetrical doesn’t make it fair. The fact that you can choose the modes means that you can deliberately omit the card type you have the most of to remain card advantage. It is comparable to Timetwister in the sense that it affects both players equally, but is usually cast at the moment when the player casting it gets card advantage out of it.
@@hydrolythe this is true and I hate farewell card sucks to play against hahaha. My problem with it is more that it affects the different colors disproportionately. Blue can counterspell it, white can phase out, green at least gets left with all their lands, if you are playing red or black you are just fucked hahaha
Green only gets better with every set but gets worse the further away from legacy/edh you go
I don't think green is very good in legacy is it?
Green is second weakest clour red weakest and anything els white blue and black all have a really nasty plan for you to make you not even do anything but watch them play magic while you see your only combo on the graveyard
"doesnt have any huge glaring weaknesses" board clears, board clears are one of the most powerful things that can be done in a commander game and green has like 1 kinda bad one. not saying this invalidates the fact that ramp is very strong aswell, but saying they have no glaring weaknesses is def overlooking board clears
and black has cabal coffers, which by itself puts itself next to green ramp players, and they have acess to pretty much all types of removeable and interaction, black is stronger then green in almost every way
@jackblank4433 board clears are strong but green has good protection pieces for their key stuff especially and a board wipe doesn't matter if the green player has more lands than everyone else and still has a full hand which they should if they are building/playing correctly. To really fully shut down a green deck you need like consistent repeated board wipes or edict effects like dictate of erebos and these are both very oppressive strategies that don't show up too often in casual because they are so oppressive.
@jackblank4433 I mean you have to run a bunch of tutors for cabal coffers if you want it consistently which heavily warps your deck. Black definitely has good late game mana potential that rivals green bur their early game acceleration isn't even close. Black also cannot consistently remove artifacts OR enchantments it literally has 1 really shitty sorcery speed spell that can hit enchantments. I would argue Black is actually one of the worse removal colors in commander at this point. They can only consistently remove creatures and every color has answers to creatures, sure Black is better at it but it's not unique you can get away with other colors creature interaction.
@jackblank4433 cabal coffers is also much better in mono black or at least alongside green where you can easily tutor for both it AnND Urborg. Green ramp can easily and does easily fit in any deck that runs green.
ty we need to start adressing that green is the new blue in terms of bullshit mechanics today. joke asaide as you say. the other colors have more iconic/stronger staples. but on lower power green can do wathever and no one bats an eye. if you start analising casual green+X decks a greater part of that deck is probably green.
Pretty sure you aren't being super serious about this video, but I do disagree with the general statement that green is an unfair color in general.
As you mentioned in your video all the colors excell and have weaknesses in different areas. Without going into all the details Green as a color excells in mana ramp, and while it doesn't have a glaring weakness, everything Green does comes at a price. That price is the efficiency of mono green spells. Getting unconditional draw like in blue, or unconditional removal like in black or white does not come cheaply. Beast within as mentioned in your video is 3 mana, sure it can destroy any permanent, but compare that to Counterspell in blue, which functionally does the same thing for less mana. Or if you are only interested in creatures, blue has multiple creature destruction effects for 1 mana in Pongify and Rapid Hybridization, while white has some of the most efficient removal in the game in Path to Exile and Swords to plowshare.
Green is a very above board color: what you see if what you get. Green might be ramping to 8 mana on turn 4, but you know for sure that the Craterhoof Behemoth will be cast with 8 mana rather than being cast with no mana. If you want some advice to make your games against green players more interesting: just bring more removal.
Yeah im not being super serious just some fun discussion haha.
I do think the "run more removal" argument isn't a very good one though. Sure you can build super oppressive decks that run 10 board wipes or repeated edict effects and just lock your opponents out from every having creatures on board but that isn't always a fun experience. In a group where you want everyone to have fun and give people the chance to "do the thing" adding more removal yes is effective in winning but not effective in having a good time. Ultimately I'd rather lose to green than only play oppressive decks.
@@OnlyLands-MTGthis isn’t the classic “if it dies to removal it’s balanced” argument. I’m saying that a lot of greens power is based on its board presence. The mana dorks that are the cause of greens super fast ramp, the big stompy creatures. Even a lot of the draw is based on either creatures entering the battlefield, or based on creatures already on the battlefield.
Green is the type of color that plays a very open and honest game. That is partially why people don’t generally get super mad at it, you can very easily see when a green deck is winning because of the amount of creatures on board. There isn’t a hidden torment of hailfire, or temporal trespass. It is just big guys that come to hit you.
@nasutoe yes 100% I agree. This is why people don't complain about green as much. I am just saying green deserves a little more hate than it gets considering what it's capable of hahaha
There are 3 colors in commander. If you're not playing blue, black, or green then you have to be doing inherently broken.
I honestly think white is really underrated now. It definitely used to be the worst color but the past few years have made it really strong imo. It has the 2nd best ramp with the catch up ramp which isn't hard to turn on with bounce lands or lotus field and stuff, it has good card draw now based around small creatures, it has the BEST removal in the game being able to EXILE all the various card types. It has the BEST board protection with cards like tec pro and clever concealment being able to phase your creatures is much better than just giving indestructible with farewell and toxic deluge in the format. It has decent graveyard utilization as well. White can definitely hold its own these days.
@@OnlyLands-MTG white is underrated but I honestly don't think it stands on its own. When is the last time you heard about a mono white deck pulling consistent wins? I've seen other mono color decks be good enough to be cedh viable but very few mono white decks are able to stand on the same level I find. I think black is probably the best color in commander with green in a very close second with blue, then white, then red.
@@kevincarter9164 In cEDH I think mono white is better than mono green and so is mono red. Like Magda, Slicer, and Godo are kind of memey but definitely real decks in cEDH and are all mono red. Mono blue has teferi, black has K'rrik, white has Heliod w/ ballista combo these aren't exactly meta decks but they can compete. I can't really think of any mono green decks that compete at that level maybe marwyn elf ball?
As I said in the video green gets weaker as you get higher power. I think green really shines when the other really busted and degen stuff is not happening. For casual commander or at least the games I play I rate it Green > Blue > White > Black > Red. Green just doesnt have any really big weaknesses. Blue is the only color with counterspells and still has the best card draw. White again is just overall really strong with again no real weakness but just does the important stuff like draw and ramp worse than green. Black can't answer artifacst or enchantments consistently which I think makes it one of the worst mono colors. I think wizards should give black consistent enchantment removal I think it would make sense for the color pie and I think black kind of needs it. Red is hard to evaluate it just opperates on a completely different axis than the other colors struggling to answer both creatures and enchantments but being the best at player removal.
May I introduce you to a little known card combo called Thoracle
@@alexschwartz3515 yeah Thoracle isn't something I expect to see too much in casual
Disliked this (I am a green player through and through, nothing stated in this video was wrong)😊
It's okay to cheat as long as you admit it 😤
The distinction between cedh and casual is kinda pointless as "we" as community play plenty of cedh staples which are btw often times not green because as you said green is the weakest color there.
Your playgroups just seem to have a problem with assessing greens strengths and boardstates.
I wouldn't say it's pointless but I agree it is arbitrary. Each playgroup kind of decides for themselves what they consider appropriate for their power level but that doesn't mean the distinctions are pointless. My playgroup has decided fast mana and fee counterspells are above the power we enjoy playing. Sure that means green is probably more powerful in our group because we have decided to exclude these other powerful options. As I said I think magic is in a great place I don't want wizards to nerf green or anything I was just sharing my opinion based on my play experiences :)
So things like mana crypt and sol ring are banned in your group?
I've asked the people I play with to cut sol ring from their decks many times but most of them won't do it.
@ThiefSakon we allow sol ring since having 1 piece of fast mana in a 99 card deck doesn't warp the game nearly as much as having 10. We may end up cutting it too but for now we have fun with it.
But yes we choose not to play with mana crypt and the other moxen
I was going to type out all the ways you're wrong, but the list was too long.
This guy has no idea what he's talking about.
Hahaha love it. It's just my opinion from my experiences in my playgroup. Not sure how an opinion can be wrong but go off I guess
@@OnlyLands-MTG You spend the first 4 seconds of the video saying "Green players are cheaters, and nobody wants to admit this fact." I guess that's an opinion though, isn't it? Can't be a fact if it isn't true.
Btw, cEDH isn't a format. I can continue my list if you want.
@jessejernigan8001 I am using a logical argument to present my opinion but my definition of "cheating" is still an arbitrary one that I made up for the sake of this discussion so yes I do think it still counts as an opinion. Just because something is presented logically doesn't mean it has to be factual.
cEDH is certainly a format idek what that means
Give me a link to the cEDH banlist. I’ll wait.
@jessejernigan8001 so there is no difference between casual and competitive edh? Just because it doesn't have a separate banlist doesn't mean it doesn't exist and there aren't differences.
Honestly green is the weakest because it is a support color. It makes other colors better. Look at the top 120 commanders at edhrec for the past 2 years. Their is only 1 mono green commander while every other color/colorless has 2 or more. If you have green it is the same 6 cards in every deck. Other than big creatures and ramp green doesn't have anything else. It sucks at removal. Besides beast within if your pairing it with any other color 9/10 times the other color has better removal and interaction. You have destroy artifact as a topic but most artifact destruction is in red in fact all the good ones are. You say white doesn't cheat but it has the most indestructible cards and the one of the only answers to any card exiling. If you take ramp away from green almost anything green does is better in a different color. Boardwipes white/ black are the best. Destroy artifacts or creating treasure nothing does it better than red. Drawing cards that is blues whole shtick. Gaining life well thats white. Doing damage thats also red. Discard/ reanimate still black. Returning creatures/ tapping opponents boards that's blue. The beat stuff that green can do supports everyone even your enemies. Collective Voyage for 1 green mana you can spend x mana and get x lands. Clear the land for 2 and 1 green everyone reveals the top 5 and puts all lands tapped. Again get the most land early on but it puts your enemies at an advantage. And if you wanna complain ramp colorless has the best ramp the only issue is green has access to it like everyone else. You put in that you were playing with a green player and after a board wipe he then casted three eldrazis. But is the problem the mana or the eldrazi because every color can cheat out eldrazi in early turns. Your problem is no one wants to deal with the green player and you show us an example of you not dealing with it. Every color cheats. But if it wasn't for green no one would be playing any 5 color deck. Every multicolored deck needs ramp to be able to get what they need to do what their commander wants to do.