1867 The Perfect Generator For The Home Builder
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- čas přidán 14. 03. 2023
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Speed on the rim. Not torque on the hub. - Buddha
Old Buba never drove on the highway 🤔⛽️👨🏻🔧🥊💥
"Torque on the Hub" sounds like a little known English hamlet.
And all this time I thought it was Gandhi... Be well...
When I was a kid growing up in the late 50's we had The Mr. Wizard television show. Weekly he performed experiments in the presence of kids like me to explain why things work. He made science interesting. He made it fun and also inspiring. You remind me of Mr. Wizard except you are much more exuberant with your results! Enjoying the joy of your presentations.
I watched him in the 80's. Had no idea the show went that far back.
yea Mr Wizards world
Yes... The beauty of a system like this is you can put many coils around the outside and with some clever programming, as the speed to the rim increases activate additional coils to keep the speed of the turbine and the generation optimized.
Low wind speed = 1 or 2 coils.
High wind speed = 20 coils.
Thanks 👍
THE BEAT GENERATOR IS SOLID STAT, NO MOTION JUST LIKE HOLCOMB DEVICE. WE HAVE TO EVOLVE TO IMPROVE OUR LIFE. THINK NEW IDEAS NOT OLD IDEAS. WE HAVE TO CHANGE OUR WAYS OF THINKING IN THIS TIME OF OUR LIFE. GREAT IDEAS FROM OUR EARTH GENERATION.
You are an awesome mentor, DIYr, Inventor and maker! Thank you kind sir! I so enjoyed this video and your time.
Totally Agree But I do remember the effort on a bike with the old rim generator
Now, there's a blast from the past! As soon as you leaned over the handlebars to lock those things against the tyre your legs got a LOT more of a workout. All that effort to power a bulb that gave you about five feet of vision. For context, this was 40+ years ago so not exactly as efficient as today's kits.
@@NiteLynr Yes it took noticeable energy out of me but I remember 5m not feet. However, nowadays at least one can charge a smartphone with it. Cheers
With led bulbs 💡 I bet things would be much easier to deal with.
@@NiteLynr in the 40s
@@leopoldpoppenberger8692 In fairness, this was my grandmother's bike so most likely 😀
Great video Rob. I am a fan of VAWT design for the reasons you spoke of as well as the safety. The pressure envelope that forms at a certain RPM with the VAWT is my favorite aspect. It is similar in concept to steam because the torque is greater despite the lower RPM of the turbine. Just a side note, it would be awesome to make those flaps on the flat turbine you made into solar cells so that when the wind is calm, you still generate power though not much power. Cheers
interesting idea on the solar panels. My thoughts would be that you would want the mass of the feathers to be as low as possible to prevent material fatigue over time and the idea of getting electrical contacts that could survive the regular articulations would be a challenge I would think. Great idea on different integrations. No one solution will resolve this.
@@InspectorKemp84 the thing with 0.5mm cheap solar cells is they are over 99% of their 0.5mm thick mass the fibreglass substrate. Can't see why a silver torsion spring rod in a lubed nylon tube and a slipring contact for the other pole wouldn't be a great solution for conductors. Though carbon fibre rods and slipring contacts could be even better.
Hey Rob, why not try a proof of concept, with say one of your Rose or feather turbines as a sun on a downward cone edge profile platter, A bladed VAWT with vertical blades on a V bike rim, and nylon beads drilled half through, pressfitted on three brushless DC motors as generators and planet bearings?
Super picture of an old Sunbeam!
👍😊
Another very thought provoking video Rob and as a bonus a very clean cup.
Always inspirational and your enthusiaism is infectious.
Was hoping you'd spot the thruster development and talk about it. Nice one man.
Been working on some designs myself. And the video on the feather turbine really helped me to see the advantages of using the “speed-at-the-rim” approach. Thanks!
Flywheel battery/generator/charger all in one place is what I hear you saying... mass producing and shipping could be a problem though 😅 not to mention shrapnel.
But if you could do it it could be somewhat simple and low cost.
Damn, this makes a lot of sense, also makes me realise why generators got stuck in the same way of generating electricity instead of moving with motor tech. Great video Rob!!
I always think of speed at the rim first. This is why I love gears and pulleys. I like the idea of using high gear ratios to get the maximum possible efficiency from a generator/motor, with torque on one end, speed on the other.
Thank you for helping and sharing. Unlimited possibilities. Love it
Hey Robert Murray Smith, why not try a proof of concept, with say one of your Rose or feather platter turbines as a sun on a downward cone edge profile platter, A bladed VAWT with vertical blades on a V bike rim, and nylon beads drilled half through, pressfitted on three brushless DC motors as generators and planet bearings?
Or you could just use a router like a compass to cut a V groove in some plywood, and epoxy+coloidial Silica seal the edges and spin grind it with a tapered grinding bit in the router to a hard perfect round surface.
It would combine good high torque low wind starting with contrarotating bonuses.
And of course the high speed stationary rotating planet bearing, small generator advantages.
Thank you very much Sir I am inspired by your enthusiasm. I set up a wind turbine manufacturing company in 2009 in West France. It was a good idea at the wrong time but I still have a machine functioning. I’m working well for the last 14 years in my garden as well as this, I have an array of solar panels and designed a very nice wood store with a solar panel roof. I’m interested in the idea of building an actual flux horizontal win turbine. It will be an interesting project on fusion 360. I also have a 1 m x 1 m 20 3-D printer, which my son and I built last year so keep up the good designs and I’ll keep watching them. Thank you
I have a feeling this is going to keep happening due to the evolution of the internet but we have a lot of similar equipment and my intuition went wild watching this video. we are all being compelled and inspired by something great that is emerging. Sir I appreciate the practical demonstrations you provide and they have all been very educational and inspirational. We both got a lot of complimentary data and I feel like this video confirmed to me that our algorithms are working around us drawing inspiration from similar sources 🙏
That makes a lot of sense, excellent explanation.
You are brilliant thanks for such enlightening morning
Thank you for your work. You've save me so much time
Totally agree: still makes more sense to make the bearing function near the hub though ^^
5:15 That's where my head went to. I need to spin a car alternator fast from a water turbine down at our stream. Your thoughts made me wonder about fitting it to the rim of a waterwheel!
Am now lacking in the maths skills to work out how big the wheel needs to be for an average flow woodlands stream 😂
Hi Robert, I'm part of the utility industry, I have worked with steam turbines, gas turbines, wind turbines, diesel, solar Generators. These generators have been with stationary or rotating fields. I think your on to something good with your wind Turbine and using the most outer circumference of your Turbine Wheel. Have you seen the US-DOE's tin fusion generator? It's remarkable. They take tin turn it into a plasma state in a electromagnetic confinement field and the light is converted directly into electricity at a 92% overall efficiency. No mechanical generator needed, no steam cycle.
Good luck on that Great Wind Turbine Generator Set.(WTGS).
I have wanted to build a bike like that for years
I like your thoughts Rob.
Here's a thought. Why not take it a step further. Hubless turbines or thrusters using ring and sun configuration, and stationary rotating balls or rollers as driving elements for small high speed motors or generators.
Contrarotating blades, whether VAWT or axial flux have big potential efficiency advantages, and these are often bigger if they are rotating at different speeds, with different prime number blade numbers.
And there is efficiency and mechanical advantages to driving the ball or barrel roller from both inner and outer rings. And having those rings supported for axial, radial, thrusts and torques.
You could even consider a hybrid or infinately variable transmission variant by driving/braking the sun ring by electric or mechanical means.
Hey Murray, why not try a proof of concept, with say one of your Rose turbines as a sun on a downward point cone edge profile platter, A bladed VAWT with vertical blades on a V bike rim, and nylon beads drilled half through, pressfitted on three brushless DC motors as generators and planet bearings?
Wow, I think you may have turned the home generation world on its head. Imagine what you could do with your feathers on an old bicycle wheel? Or multiple bicycle wheels stacked on top of each other? We’ll never have to put another ten Bob in the meter!
Love this idea, am about as electrical as a mouse chewing electric wire, but the flat bottom generator stacked under bike rims and feathers REALLY interesting.
Make feathers out of beer cans , make a wall of them in the yard, then to battery bank...
Here in NM ---lots of wind 😀
Just want off the grid...
I wondered where that introduction was going - I didn't expect it to be the demise of Triumph!
I was thinking about your atmosphere energy switching problem.
If you used a true glass tube Reed switch you could switch the reed with the perimeter magnets on your wind turned generator.
One machine harvesting both potential power sources.
Dont understand but like the channel
well I am glad to know you like it - cheers
I had to watch this again because I visualized an awesome dual rim electric bike generator set up that consists of socketing the front wheel with alternating neodymium permanent magnets and mounting coils on stationary rims to the bikes frame closely to the front wheel, creating a 26 inch rim generator that utilizes my bikes high speed spin while in use. I actually believe that might be the principle behind zero contact regenerative breaking systems in electric vehicles.
This feather generator idea looks like a great way to re-use bike wheels! Most of the work is done already
I don't have work space right now.
Vertical design for wrap around wind generator.
The moving flap idea maximizes the aerodynamics for both catching wind and avoiding
Interesting that this was never a conversation any of my engineering teachers had with us, but sounds completely logical.
Can't wait for the upscaled version! Gonna charge my ebike with a flat windmill!
Don't forget torque and speed are partly determined by the distance/ force between the stator plate and the magnets.
Fantastic!
Agreed, Thank You!
A year or so ago I had an idea for a portable wind turbine that had a set of collapsible rods that fit in a ring shaped generator. You could then slide canvas "blades" over that rod to make it a VAWT.
Never built it, but the idea was for something you could send in bulk to Mars and/or 3d print on sight.
Just like putting magnets on the outer edge of a fly wheel high speed/low torque on outer edges but high torque at the shaft
Hubless wheels look cool and your point about the torque conversion is well taken but with a rim drive one doesn’t have to go hubless. A friction motor is a good example for this but what about a linear motor along the rim. Has anyone seen one yet?
The Raptor hub driven aviation thruster showed up in my feed a couple days ago.
My take is that vibration will tear it apart at some point.
Perhaps a redesign of the blades would make it viable?
their kinda a novelty for highly controlled environments, but a generator sounds like a decent idea for it!
Nice flywheels on those stationary and steam engines though. Also in technological terms the Petter M carburation is quite interesting. I don't know about what else. Carbs aren't much good here though.
Interesting. 🤔
I need to investigate how this hubless trick works.
Love it Peace great Video
So.... Rimming is the secret? 😏😉😅
I'll see myself out
Thanks...
The simplicity, high efficiency and low cost of a 3 bladed propeller and a tail vane to turn the prop to face the wind is still hard to beat from the point of view of increasing the wind capture area.
Most designs that rely on stationery structures to capture more wind incur the penalty of a much higher cost.
A strong central axle coupled to a conventional generator is much less expensive than a rim-based generator as the device increases in size and power. Do your own spreadsheet based estimates, and convince yourself. Been there and done that !
Had this idea myself for 7 years
You have created a lot of different generators but have you ever used one of them in your house?
If you can put the motor on the outer rim of a drone prop you can use the same reactive armor sensors on a tank to make the prop dodge bullets. Imagine how fast and reactive that drone would be.
I agree with the concept. It is one I have been espousing for years, only not at the macro scale, but the micro. Magnetic domains which, when small, are circular. It is the inter-linking of domains which creates a field at the macro level. These domains are not fixed in physical space, are mass-less and can themselves be induced. They are able to be influenced by a relatively small external force (compared to the number of domains, which is in proportion to the density of the flux of the macro field), to alter their alignment direction. This leads to a reversal of polarity of the macro field with resultant localised induction of EMF. Thanks Nikola Tesla.
Could you talk about how this may be applied to srm motor
Rob I do believe this is heading in the right direction. I think there is a problem that most people look at the amount of power they us (Watts) to run their homes, it's only natural that they want to maximise their generator and I feel in using a rim generator is a good way to go. Now folks will gone about the Lenz effect dragging the spin speed down and if you try and max the current out of one it is true, yet if you have a whole load of them just sipping at the wind the whole time, you will in turn gather a lot of power (no pun intended) Cheers once again Rob.
Quite interesting, how difficult it is to think out of the box
lol - yes it it is - surprisingly
just for clarity.... assume VWT (or VAWT etc. ) is Vertical (axis) Wind Turbine.; while HWT (HAWT) is Horizontal (axis) Wind Turbine
This idea of connection to the wheel at the hub comes from wagons and carriages.
Not only do they pump water well, but they work on water and coal- something England was also mining at the time.
Yes
could you look at this . Power Electricity in Andarctia , there is one one how they built the wind mills
Even if it’s input is ported from the sides, a hub less turbo wheel sounds Bat-tastically! And self cleaning, if it’s stall possible.
If more people had the common sense you have …. The world would indeed be a better place👍👍
I approve of the application of Comic Sans.
I think it goes back even further than the steam engine, the shaft being the focus. The earliest methods of harnessing rotational force in the West, I'm thinking of mills with water or wind power, all needed to use the power somewhere remote from where it was generated. A flour mill exposed to either wind or water is not going to be ideal. The obvious way to transfer the power from these large wheels is via the shaft. You only have to make a single hole through the wall of your mill to bring the shaft through and then, using belts, gears and pulleys you can get that force where it's needed. From then on we, as a culture, seem to have stuck with that idea and simply improved on each part of the process without re-evaluating the process as a whole.
I suppose there have always been innovators along the way, but the majority of the guys who were applying new technology to actually produce stuff (and thus make money) most successfully seem to have been the guys who were a little more conservative but dependable. Obviously this is a massive generalisation, and exceptions abound, but it does go part of the way to explaining why we have the conceptual framework that we have. That is a powerful insight you've had there, Rob! It never occurred to me before, but you are spot on, and I'm wondering in what other ways those preconceptions are affecting us; from our interpretation of the Pyramids to the current wave of interest in UAP/UFOs and our ideas about climate change. Perhaps we need to deliberately try and find alternative ways of looking at all these things?
Fantastic
Just finished watching the Raptor hub-less thruster video and notice they wish to use a jet fueled engine to provide the electrical energy to drive the thruster. Could a similar or larger "thruster" configured as a generator be positioned behind, the motorized thruster to charge a battery? It's the same air and presumably the variable pitch of the blades could ensure that the flow is optimal. What am I missing?
I think you still need a bearing on shaft instead of at the rim as this will have less friction but I agree that the power transfer should happen at the rim and not via the shaft.
Force and distance, torque and speed, current and voltage all inhabit the same realm of the equation. Power/watts. In wind turbines the resistance to the movement of the generator is mainly the electrical load. The more current you draw from the generator the more the Lenz effect works against you and requires more torque. So having the generator on the rim, at the end of the lever, even though it goes fast with no load, will require torque to move that long lever through the magnetic flux caused by the current in the stator coils.
Here is a thought, as the load slows the rotor, the coils and magnets slide closer to the axel speeding up the rotor.
Ice skater spin.....🧑🔬 or 🤡
@@davidsoulsby1102 so the magnets would move outwards with higher RPM?
@@jimlipscomb3236 only if they are free to move. Stepper motors...
@Jim Lipscomb Sorry missed the ? mark... They would be controlled by the electrical load, the higher the load the closer to the axel... the magnets would need to be controlled.... its just an initial thought on how to control the torque/speed issue.
Brilliant!
I have a used KONE ecodisc elevator motor which I would love to turn into a wind turbine or gravity train some day
Very, very interesting 🤔
What I have done on my vawts is decrease the diameter of the vawt to increase the speed, and increase the diameter of the alternator. And to make it all work I made the VAWT tall to increase the torque, grab more wind. It seems to work for me.
What's minimum wind needed?
My brain keeps going back to planetary gears but can't quite hold the thought. Would I be correct that a CW center axle would produce a CCW outer gear? If so wouldn't this allow for an apparent doubling of the rim speed (or more) if used in a generator? One line of thought here was for the disks of a wimhurst
Interesting 🤔! Going on your idea that better generators follow on better motors, I would be very interested to see your adaptation on the latest Tesla (Elon) motors? I think others would also be interested. I suspect so would you? They are rather amazing.
Good is freqently not well defined.
A good motor for a specific application may not mean a good generator. Furthermore, a good generator for a specific application may not be good for others.
Define an application, then you can measure how well a motor/generator fits or compare contrast against others, how well they match the demands of the application. 😁
@@kreynolds1123 That's fair and yes Good can be ambiguous and even have opposite meanings for some. I ise it ubiquitously leaving room for poetic embellishments and creative insights, for better or worse, kind of like marriage, but I'm not married to the word.
@@kreynolds1123 engineer thinking NO1
I've had alot of success working on the rim
Oh Robert, how could you poo poo the chu chu....
Lol, I do like a good steam engine tho👍
I have been fooling about with edge drive ever since I realized that pushing a Ferrari Testarossa around the shop with six guys was nuts when all you had to do was rotate the wheel and the 80 ton fire chariot was moved with ease.
Problems for a road vehicle I need to solve are the mass of the drive wheel over rough surface and the magnetic crud I collect from the road dirt...
minor things in it all really.
Any way tech for me is -Everything everywhere all at once-
I use it without regard to age, it all offers something, perception of that offer is of course key.
Rim drive is a great advantage, amplifier, lever, to get the wheels turning.
Come to think of it... I think you guys built an rim driven steam powered lorry over there ... may that Mack coal hauler... cant recall. But I have liked the Unimog drive system since I was a kid.
Thank you Robert for all you do and share, we are all the better for it, and grateful. Hope to shake you hand some day.
so basically, bigger radius and more magnets then a slow turning wheel will pass the magnets over a coil faster. plus trying to get the motive force applied at the rim, not the hub
take a look into Honeywell HOME Wind Turbine's, looks like what you are doing
I can feel myself about to go down the rim-drive rabbit hole. I'm an EV enthusiast with a moped conversion in mind and I didn't know that was a thing.
it is a rabbit hole lol
Like I have no idea HOW a drive like that would be engineered but imagine the energy savings of not having to waste so much torque.
The only other device I can think of with a similar function is a rail gun.
Very cool, I have built a few hub drive e bikes. Same concept so look into hub motors for e bikes, much cheaper than a commercial grade hub motor for a motorcycle and you really only need about 2000 watts to travel at 40 MPH but, I would go for 3000 watts for the steeper hills ( I was in the mountains of Washington state lol ). Good luck on your project, I put over 2000 miles on my second bike.
@@JSabh from where did you source your parts? I've had a lot of difficulty finding the correct sizes or dealers that are willing to talk to me about it. Not to mention most search engines don't seem to know the difference between a 40mph moped and a child's scooter.
Is it possible to use a mercury homopolar motor in reverse? Use mercury bath as lower bearing. Spin the mercury in a magnetic field using a vertical generator (perhaps your flat generator) to create a current. The mercury acts as both bearing and collector.
Sum are forces, sum are torques.torqued.
Power is torque@speed.
A thought...
Speed.
If speed is important to the contribution of the generation, then..
If you are driving the "coils" on the rim at speed in one direction, is there any gain/benefit from driving the magnets on the rim in the opposite direction....doubling the passing....generating speed?
If we talk about wind speed and power, I got this from the University of Michigans web site.
"High wind speeds yield more power because wind power is proportional to the cube of wind speed."
As i have mentioned several times before.... flip the anode of a magnetron inside out and use it as the rotor... and build a much larger anode with far smaller resonant chambers facing the rotor, place a clockwise twist the the anode of the rotor and a counterclockwise twist on the anode that is in the place of the stator... cap the ends of the resonant chambers with magnets and insert output feed loops in the chambers of the stator or rotor or both...
If, in your serpentine coil design, electricity generation is improved by increasing the speed at which the coil passes through the magnetic field what might be the benefit of contra-rotating the two components so instead of one of the two elements rotating relative to its static "partner" you would have them turning in opposite directions, making the closing - and passing - speed of the two components - coil and field - twice as fast?.
Perhaps a wind turbine attached to each component with one of them geared to rotate in the opposite direction should do the trick.
I leave the design of a working model of this idea to you.
Keep up the good work.
In a wind turbine, isn't the lever the other way around? Moving the coils and magnets (the mechanical load) out to the edge puts it at the wrong end of the lever? You want maximum force at the tip of the blade for lots of torque at the hub? Or am I missing something?
Yes yes, yes yes !
I have a question, sort of unrelated to this. With your serpentine coil, you're cutting across the coil perpendicularly. This creates alternating current. I get that. Seeing the motorcycle wheel made me think of something though. What if the coil was just a circle...not a serpentine... do a few hundred turns with a moderately sized wire which is then supported on something like spokes to the central hub to make the stator, and then for the rotor, you take a tubular circle the same diameter as the coil, just with a bigger radius in the tube so that it sort of cups the coil, split it in half so you've got two half-circular tubes, and then line the inside with magnets. So, for a half circle, you do three magnets lined up the same so that N or S is towards the center of the tube, then an inch or so away, you do another line of magnets in the opposite direction (N vs S), and repeat this around the tube. Once mounted together so it's balanced and you have relatively close distance from the face of the magnets inside the tube to the coil, if you give this a spin, it'll provide DC power, wouldn't it? Or would that still be AC? Instead of alternating the current at specific points within the coil, forcing the voltage to oscillate between positive and negative, you'd be moving the north or south field of the magnet through the coil... To be honest, I'm not even sure if that would work, but I feel like it should. If the coil's positive and negative are disconnected, you wouldn't get any power out of it because there's nowhere for the electrons to move to, but as soon as they're connected through a circuit, those little electrons should be moving through there at whatever speed the rotor is spinning.
I think even if you just did the magnets as a monopole, meaning you don't alternate them, if you throw a capacitor inline with the outputs of the coil and you should get some stable DC power... no need to rectify anything... And then depending on how you have it set up, if you put some airfoils (aerofoils) inside the half circle tubes and put it out into the wind, you'd have a pretty solid wind turbine with a lot of momentum due to the weight of the magnets...
Honeywell tried this for HAWT, didn't catch on for some reason. May want to look into why it failed. Not sure but may provide some insight.
Mag-lev flywheel in a vacuum. Done
Do you have the models online to play with?
Nice
cheers mate
Torque and speed are interchangeable, that´s basically what gears do a wheels are also just gears. Energy wise lots of torque at a slow speed is the same a little torque at a high speed. It matters not for energy generation, it´s the same amount of energy. Some machines are better suited to provide more torque and turn slow this way you will get high ampere and low voltage and some machines turn rather fast but with little torque and you will get high voltage but low amperage in the end it´s all the same.
Get yourself a washing machine motor brushless and you got the best tech invented by NASA and commercialised by fisher and paykal in the 90s . Some of the recent machines are made more high power and can do 15 kg loads and made with 2 mm metal instead of plastic . You can drive a car with just 1 at 25 km per hour
As below, rim drives and generation are fine; but rim bearings are inferior to an axle. The rotational speed is immaterial - torque x rpm always equals power, and axles rarely break.
Thank you for your help. But… when are you going to spike your Mohawk?
Questio is it theoretical possible to mitigate air gap losses by using a magnetic lying reluctant gas or plasma
Yea I was on a ferris wheel, it was driven on the rim by a motor attached to a car tyre lol