Ultimate Surf System Comparison - Centurion , Supreme, Malibu, Axis, Nautique, Mastercraft, Surfgate
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- čas přidán 20. 07. 2024
- 0:00 Intro
2:52 Axis Surf System Walkthrough
12:05 Vi22 Surf System Walkthrough
17:45 Axis Drivability
19:25 Vi22 Drivability
20:55 Axis Visibility
23:40 Vi22 Visibility
26:55 Vi22 Changing Surf Size
29:42 Vi22 Wave Creation
33:42 Axis Wave Creation
37:54 Recap
See our full blog post on this topic here:
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See the full lineup of new Centurion Boats here:
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See the full lineup of Supreme Boats here:
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Probably the most over-hyped, marketed and discussed item on a wakesurf boat is the Surf System. “My surf system is better than yours” seems to be a topic that is screamed from every proverbial roof in the wake boat industry and there is A LOT of bad information out there about these devices that allow you to move water from side to side to create a surf wave.
The plates/tabs/gates that sit at the back end of a boat are great for creating delayed convergence, but there is a lot more that goes into creating a surf wave than just the device that diverts water flow at the back of a boat. The biggest factors that are involved in what really makes a “Surf System”, are as follows:
-The plates/gates/tabs that direct water flow at the back of the boat
-The hull design, or better put, running surface of the boat
-The ballast in the boat and where that ballast is located
-Other devices that control the orientation of the hull as it moves through the water (ie center plate or hydrofoil that lifts or pulls on the boat)
In this video below we take a close look at what each of these factors do on a surf boat and how Centurion utilizes each of these pieces to create the best possible experience for both the surfer and the boat driver while surfing.
The information represented here compares the surf experience behind a Centurion and an Axis wake boat, but the same principles will apply with a Nautique, Malibu, Supreme, Mastercraft, Tige, Supra, Moomba, ATX, Pavati, Sanger or any other surf boat. - Sport
Like that this video was a long format rather than 90 sec of glamour shots with vague claims of greatness - well done. if there were a Centurion dealer anywhere near me, i'd go for a test drive/ride to see how it surfs for a casual/intermediate rider like myself...but as a datapoint I drove off the lot in a new 2019 Axis A24 for
Always killer content and videos! Keep them coming!
Only thing I would add as an a22 owner is on the a22 you showed the “dirty” side of the wave verse the clean side in the centurion. The opposite side on the a22 is a beautiful wave. Seems a little biased.
i don't have visibility problems with my A24. DId he fill the front sacs???
Do you want to buy a boat with a “dirty” side? I’m glad he showed only that. Means I won’t buy that boat ever.
BoardCo is a Centurion dealer, so that pretty explains the bias.
Centurion has to compare their super expensive boat against a budget boat and who knows what the Axis wave looked like when they were showing speed because they never did. When they finally showed it we just had to trust he was up to a good surf speed and wedge setting. Also we run our Axis a lot without the wedge. Seat riser fixes visibility.
This was a great and very informative video. I’m currently on the hunt for a new boat. ATX 22 Type S, Supreme S220, Axis A22. All 2022 models. Not sure what to go with but this video sure helps
I own a atx22 ! The wave is more then good enough for any advanced surfer
I'm not a "brand boat" type guy. I'm a fan of Centurion, Tige, and Malibu/Axis. This video is so biased, just so that you can sell Centurion boats. Do this with two brand new boats. Compare new updated surf technology. If Malibu/Axis switched engines, they did it for a reason. They feel that they made something better.
1. If you're buying a $80k+ boat and you're worried about saving a few dollars on fuel consumption, you bought a boat outside of your budget!
2. Agree Malibu/Axis Wake Gates makes stearing harder to drive, but this is a wake boat. I dont think my grandma will be driving this boat. 99% of buyers can handle it.
3/4. Axis visibility is bad until it planes out, but surfe wave is pretty amazing on an A22!
5. You showed the wash out side of the wave on the Axis and a clean wave on the Centurion? Good sales technique in boat sales. Let's look at both boats on the same wave side!
Again, I'm a fan of Centurion, but I can't stand these biased videos from dealers that don't compare the two brands fairley! Malibu went with another engine for a reason...
I would like to see a comparison with a Supra boat. They use tabs just like Centurion.. That would be a real comparison. Tabs vs Tabs and see how efficient Centurion really is.
You got the right idea! --- I'd love to see a three way comparo with Supra and MasterCraft (since all of them use tabs) -- all with as similar age, propellers, hull length and type, engine power ratings, ballast weight, PRICE POINTS (in other words don't use an NXT or likely an SR either), etc. as possible. If you want to really impress me throw a Nautique in there too even though it uses a hybrid system with a center plate and plates that slide out to the sides of the boat kind of like surfgate but different.
Edit: I'd also like to see a decibel (loudness) comparison too
No hate to either of those boats you mentioned but Supra and MasterCards don’t have a deep v Hull or nearly as much ballast.
But it would be cool to see a comparison
@SupremeSurfers we don’t have all the bags in our storage either..
SupremeSurfers the Supras hold 4000 pounds?? Haha
I have a Malibu 22MXZ which looks like the Axis A22 and these two hull models are meant for surfing... models like LSV cannot be compared.. I have surfed on Mastercraft and those are a joke.. I have surfed on Nautique 23 super air and the wave is decent, tall but curls on top and the pocket is too narrow but after hundreds of attempts I cannot land a 360.. the MXZ hull style has a massive wave without the curl on top and a wide pocket so there is a lot of room for error, usually after 5 attempts I can land a 360.. and very friendly for every single level, from kids trying to learn to pro riders. There must be something wrong with the settings on the Axis because the wave looks horrible, I never see any wash or curls while surfing at 10.5 with 100% full ballast in front, center, rear and the wedge setting in the middle of vert and ramp. What I see is a massive 3.5ft tall wave clean without curls..
Hey Mitch, thanks for the great video! We just picked up a ‘22 Fi23 and love it, I have seen all your surf/wake setup posts and follow your recommendations tightly. Great wave!! Sips fuel, 120 gallons of fuel lasted a 6 rider 10 days trip, with only 40 gallons of overpriced, sub quality fuel from a small high alpine marina that you may have to wait in line for. Less stops, more riding, more smiles. However after watching this video, I have to say our boat can’t hold its own/unassisted straight ahead course. Actually it’s quite the opposite, our boat performs very similar to the a22 in your video. Thoughts? Recommendations?
It is possible that your steering could be adjusted slightly. It will pull to one side, but you should be able to hold it with a couple fingers. If it requires more than that it could need some adjustment.
Can I bring my super air s23 to you and we can do this same type of video against the centurion? A lot of people would love to see differences
Are you doing a comparison with the other boats in the title on another video?
I'd like to see you use the exact same gas in each boat. The gas in the axis is only 46% octane where as in the centurion its 56%. That can make drastic differences.
First off you need the front Ballast bag, and I’m sure the wave will be better on the Axis, both good boats, Axis about $20k cheaper
I love the video, puts a smile on my face as an owner of an Fi25. Gas consumption is spot on, I couldnt believe the difference coming from a Mastercraft X35. Love working with the guys at BoardCo. Just one thought on the video though, to be fair, why did you show goofy on the Axis and Regular on the Centurion? Most surf boat owners know goofy can be a subpar wake. But Centurion does an amazing wake on both. Great Video. Will pass this on to my friend looking for a new boat.
Thanks Chris! The different wave was probably an oversight on our part - we aren't exactly a Hollywood production studio so we mix things up from time to time. That said (and you can attest) the goofy wave is typically a bit better on the Centurion than the regular side, so if anything we probably gave the Axis a leg up on that one.
Why can goofy be a subpar wake?
Compare it to the 2020-21 MB B52 23’ is put that wave up against a lot of those boats
Very good content
Thank you!
Be better off weighting the boats correctly for surfing then compare the fuel consumption. People aren’t blind to your bias and that will keep people from trusting this comparison. I own a 2016 20Vtx Malibu and it’s awesome but I’ve always thought Centurion had some serious benefits when it came to surfing.
We try to be unbiased, but obviously it is really hard since we are a Centurion dealer. That said, our approach in this video was to set up each boat the way it is offered from the factory and the Malibu/Axis dealerships in our area. If there is a way we should have set the boat up that doesn't involve adding extra ballast to the bow that isn't included by Axis we are happy to concede that for sure.
I don’t really see prices for the vi listed anywhere online. Nada guides doesn’t have anything yet and no dealer lists the price. Only thing I saw was an article from wakeboard mag that had theirs as tested near 150k. I’m seeing orders for 2021 a22s listed from dealers starting at 89k and sitting at 95k with surf system installed. So what’s the price of a vi22 with the full surf system and no other options? What the price loaded? Looks like the A22 loaded is around 109k
The price listed on the Vi22 is MSRP where the Axis A22 prices you mentioned are coming in at actual sale price. If you get an actual quote for dealers the prices will be a lot closer.
That said, this video is not intended to be an Axis vs. Centurion video, it is intended to show the differences in surf systems and these two models are the best ones we could find that can demonstrate those differences. Even if the price tag was $50k difference the same principles apply whether you are looking at an Axis, Supreme, Centurion, Malibu, Nautique or another boat.
BoardCo ness time throwing shade just trying to get an understanding and pricing things out. Been a Malibu/axis guy, but fell in love with the classic look of the vi.
Good video but would like to see you dial each boat in with additional ballast and lead and show the best wakes possible that each boat can make! With your 4 people you should have put someone in the bow and show differences in pitch of boat and wave it makes. I’ve been on some axis and the wave looks way better than yours did each boat needs something different and when we are in the 80k and above range in boats might as well spend the extra 1-2k on ballast and lead to dial each boat in
You can definitely dial each one in but that wasn't really the point of the video. We were comparing the way that different surf systems operate and their effects on the wave, the driver, etc.
You can do A LOT to modify the boat after it leaves a dealership, but these are not factors to consider when comparing the way the boats work out of the box.
What setting was the wedge at during the inclinometer measurement?
At a setting of 5, so not fully engaged.
I have a brand new Malibu and it doesn’t turn at all while wakesurfing. It does turn when you switch the surf gate from left to right or vise versa but never turns hard like that. I know that mine isn’t an axis but they both use the same surf gate. Great video tho
An Axis is just a lower end Malibu.
2017 Malibu 22MXZ owner here. On the goofy side wave. I can take my hands off of the wheel and the boat will track straight. On the regular side, however, I have to constantly put strong counterpressure on the wheel to keep the boat tracking straight.
I developed tendonitis in my wrist, the first year I owned the boat, from constantly holding counterpressure. I learned to alter my hand position every 10 to 15 minutes when I have a regular side surfer.
Newer boats, from all manufacturers, have worked on reducing this issue.
Jonathan Anderson we got a 2021 24 MXZ and I think they have fixed it. I completely went to the back of the boat while someone was wakesurfing with no one on the steering wheel and it didn’t turn. Sorry about your tendonitis, that would suck
@@carsonknott9884 I'm not surprised. Seems like that has been a huge point of emphasis for all the manufacturers. I'm jealous of how much quieter the new Malibu's are too.
The tendonitis resolved after about 8 months. So thankfully nothing long term.
Jonathan Anderson yes the engine is so quiet!! That’s good that it went away
This is a pretty accurate video owning an old 2007 Enzo we used the Mission suck gate to create wave now not the Malibu surf gate but same principles then we installed the GSA system again not the centurion tabs but a relative apples to apples comparison of both systems .
I can tell you that the surf gate system used way more fuel than the tabs system revs we’re an 800 rpm 1000 rpm difference and remember this is on the same boat not my boat is an Axis ,Malibu ,Nautique or Centurion same hull same motor same prop that’s it apples to apples .
The wave
we run 3800lbs of ballast decent but not 5000lbs
Suck gate tall steep long 12-14 ft took longer to get to 10.9 -11.2 no adjustment it is what it is reg better than goofy (prop rotation )
Tabs - tall steep long 12-14 long took way quicker to get to surf speed reg better than goofy
Differences
The tabs system we were able to add lead weight roughly 400lbs 150 Lbs each rear locker 100 mid boat and run the boat surfing 100rpm higher than with out lead 3650 rpm rather than 3550 to get boat to 11.2
The surf gate same weight could not get on plane 4500 4650 4800 rpm to get the boat to 10.2 .
Surf gate wave messy super steep short but messy
Tab wave 14-16 ft long clean big now with the adjustable tabs you could dial it down for smaller rider it just became longer or steepen it up for the big boys while maintaining 3650-3750 rpm
Goofy wave far improved 14ft instead of 12 ft
So I’m biased I’ll admit I’m a centurion guy no question that’s because I’m familiar with brand I just bought an RI but in conclusion this is what I found on my boat same motor same prop same fat dad driving it .
I have an axis T22 and would love to upgrade to a fi. Great videos!
Why? I have a T22 and my wave is hands down better than anything in this video! What are you running for ballast?
Luke Corigliano my wave is fine... not the problem at all.. the extra drag, bow rise, fuel consumption, constant having to hold pressure on the steering while surfing.... just little things. My wave is perfectly fine... however the adjustability of the wave with the tab system is a lot easier than guessing how much you have in each ballast tank. I mean can we get a steep wave? Yes, yes we can, can we get a long wave.. again yes we can but it takes some playing and filling and emptying of ballasts where with the tabs you can do it on the fly almost instantly. Nothing is wrong with the wave my T22 puts out. Just next upgrade I’d like to get on and behind a centurion. Just my thoughts.
nothing beats a malibu. the truth is on the water. The laws of physics prove that Malibus run the beat surf system availible everytime. So good that other competitors steal our patents(nautique) and have to pay us a royalty for ever boat they sell haha.
What app are you using for the inclinometer?
It is the iPhone Level / Measure app.
Is it bad that no matter how good the surf wave is... whenever I see empty lockers I think “hmm, that’ll hold another bag”
I think the same. In fact, I frequently look longingly at my bow settee, and imagine how much wait I could fit up there.
how does the surf system have to do with the fule
On the surf gate system, the gate is acting like a rudder and steering the boat one direction. While the actual rudder has to counter that by over turning the other direction. Imagine your car... 1 front wheel turning one direction and the other front wheel turning the other direction. Does that sound efficient?
Where were the rest of the boats listed in the title? Title should’ve been why to buy a centurion over an axis.
Axis is better tho
So sad that Centurion doesn't get the credit or support they deserve. I own one and wouldn't buy any other brand boat!!
You say that until you own a paragon
I own a paragon and let me tell you it’s is the best yet! Now you do know nautique owns centurion and supreme too right? That also won pcm engines too.
Centurion is what my heart wants, seadoo is my budget lmao. For real the Ri257, which is what my knowledge and experience is with, is a monster. It does everything awesome, wish it was mine. The owner said the only boat he likes better and didn't get because of cost difference is the x26 mastercraft. And he only has to fill the Ri up once a month because it is so great on fuel, and he is out every saturday and sunday playing. And I would hope the paragon is a good boat with it costing as much as a pavati.
@@vincelombardi2669 not necessarily true, they are all owned by correct craft
I would love to see proof that the motor puts out 410 HP. I believe I read that the Monsoon is not called a 409 for its horsepower. It’s more like 370.
Indmar 400 is 350hp. The 400 is ft lbs.
pcm engines are based on hp (zr409 is 409hp)
Why does the video list most brands, but only cover 1 common brand and 1 less common brand that you are trying to sell?
The reason these boats were used is they showcase the polar opposites with surf systems. The objective was to go through surf systems and the effects that they have and not to do specific brand comparisons.
Why can’t you guys have a store in Oklahoma City
That would be awesome - want to open an Oklahoma City franchise? Haha
BoardCo , if the market would support absolutely. Boat market is great right now, but i think most left now are regional chains. I can think of one independent.
Good video but very very bias. Comparing these to boats isn't even close to fair, although the axis still probably throws a similar if not more customizable wake. Funniest thing was claiming the surf system makes the axis pull to one side, and the centurion doesn't. Well its only because that Axis doesn't have the hydraulic steering option. if the bothers you then add hydraulic on your next Axis or Malibu..
love the video misleading title though
Yep. I expected to see a Mastercraft and others. I have a Centurion Avalanche now and love it but looking to get an NXT22 now. With boat prices where they are today, no denying brand name/depreciation makes a difference.
You say that no other boat can do those shapes on any other boat but my MasterCraft is able to do that as well. Just saying ;)
Master craft can’t replicate a Centurion’s wave probably the axis but not Centurion’s and if you think so go out and change the wave how he did without emptying ballest or try to make a 30 foot wave like a Centurion has done
It can’t but ok
Preston Anderson it can’t replicate either
Surf gate + wedge is the best system imo. Obviously they didn't have the axis setup correctly in this video.
Axis is an amazing boat! But how could they change any of the setting to make it better?
How would you recommend setting it up differently? The only way we could have set it up different would be to add extra (non-factory) weight into the boat in the front, unless you have another recommendation.
BoardCo that’s what I said!!
If the fastest you can go is 10.5 with full weight and wedge at 6 you will need to put a prop with more torque(acme 2247 or acme 2315) to get it up to proper speed (11.3 - 12). Also you want to have the nose up at about 12 degrees so the back of the boat is digging in to create the biggest wave possible otherwise your about to plane out at those speeds. Do you guys even surf these boats?
The fact that you guys sell Centurion says it all. I just think it's silly to call this a comparison when the purpose of the video is to sell people on Centurion.
Axis wave looked much better
nautique or bust
Nautique or bust
Notice how he doesn’t show the axis wave? Lol. Yes, of course the centurion burns less fuel. It only has tabs. Tabs lift the rear of the boat out of the water creating anti-ballast. Why would you want that? Idk. The axis has a surf wedge which is effectively a water anchor creating additional down pressure on the transom. Yes, the surf gate deploys out away from the transom to the side, causing the boat to drive slightly sideways through the water, thus increasing the draft of the boat. Yes it pulls on the steering, boat what he doesn’t mention is the axis is level side to side. Utilizing a side tab and center tab is much, pushes one side of the transom up, they claim it pushes the other side down but it really doesn’t. Just makes the boat drive very unevenly. Again he never shows the axis wake. I wonder why
Garbage. Bragging about having the most fuel efficient boat in a segment of boats that destroy gas makes you wonder. Axis and Malibu all the way.
This review is a little lengthy, maybe do some editing, up the energy and this channel would be awesome!
Love the video, but this is a 150k boat compared to a boat worth roughly 65k that doesn’t have all the correct bags, and is also surfing with the wedge at a position that most people wouldn’t use. Still undeniable that centurion is the boss of the wake boat, just wish it was a better/more fair comparison!!
If you check out the video at 40:20 we go into it in pretty good depth. The Vi22 is only about $5-10k more than the Axis A22, depending on option level so the comparison is a lot closer than many people think. The Vi22 is a lot better deal than many people expect.
BoardCo the axis a22 is 70k for a new model and the vi according to google and websites is starting at 145k. Is this true or is the vi more like an 80 or 90k boat
BoardCo That’s my ignorance, my apologies!! I love the content and definitely hoping to be able to ride a centurion boat at some point and maybe own one, heavily influenced by your videos!
@@jitschwartz6978 Thank you - we appreciate it a ton!
@@colinlogan1229 It depends on how each boat is optioned. The 145k price tag for the Vi22 is full MSRP and that is fully loaded. Most Vi22's sit around the 100k mark.
The Axis A22 typically sells in the 90-95k range (here in our area). I believe you can get one down in the 80's but we haven't seen one in the 70's for a while. To give you an idea the one in this video sold for 75k and it was 2 years old w/ 200 hours.
This would be better if you cared less about MPG and more about the quality of the wave. No one buys these form MPG or they get a diesel.
Let an Axis dealer set up their boat, let a Centurion dealer set up their boat. Let a non biased film crew show both boats with professional surfers behind. That’s a video I want to see. This is nonsense.
You never showed the wave of the Axis.
they did at 32 min
I guess I dont see the point of this video, you don't buy a wakesurf boat for its fuel efficiency granted it plays a part but you are buying it for the surf wave and the fit and finish and i'm sorry centurion doesn't have it...
Thanks for giving feedback. Fuel consumption is only 1 of 5 things we discuss in this video. We also show the experience for the driver and the ability you have to customize a surf wave on the Centurion boats. We definitively agree that you should buy a boat for the surf wave and if that is the case I would STRONGLY recommend test driving a Centurion as they are almost unanimously considered to have the best surf wave of any boat on the market.
If you run your boat on a lake where you have to carry all the fuel down an steep embankment, in 5-gallon cans, fuel economy becomes pretty important. 🤣
not really that impressed with either wave!
I see $30 grand boats put out better wake lol
Randyx007 yea just bought a 08 centurion for 25k and it has 200 lb ballast on both sides and 500lb in middle and no surf gate the wake is huge a clean
For being a boat guy, Mitch sure is pasty 😂
for being a dentist, you sure are pasty lol
@@ChadYungblood Touché
don't need a 40 min video of you talking about nothing, just show. the comparison
Super biased "comparison" video. This video is just a centurion advertisement ...
I just wasted atleast 12 minutes of my life listening to this guy talk & hardly showing the wave or the wake with full ballast full wedge & full steepest angle or the actual differences of what most people would be interested in seeing. Instead he basically craps on the axis’ gas per hour vs the Centurion’s that are like a good 6 figures in price difference as most people know already obviously it’s not going to have all the perks it does. Yet you didn’t show either of them at a full performance setting & you just left the camera on yourself talking probably 89% of the time minimum. Real cute Kook..🤦♂️🤷♂️😳
Clearly biased