I had the exact same experience with SS brother I’m of average genetics and also hit all those number within a year no problem. It’s a slow progression but it absolutely works
You really hit the nail on the head. Coach Greg is correct that a guy who "maingains" and starts out at 150 pounds is probably not going to achieve a 225 bench. It just sucks that he isn't being honest with his audience.
I benched 225 after an year of not very structured training. Just fairly consistent. Back when I started, I weighed 165lbs 6'2 and my bench started from like 100lbs max, lol. I think most people can get to 225 in one year, with consistency. A buddy I was lifting with in my home gym made very similar progress to mine.
@@PuerRidcully It took me two years to hit 225 (actually it was 100K cuz they use metric here in Japan). BUT I was sixty years old at the time and it only took me one year to deadlift 180KG. I was doing my best to stick with Starting Strength's method.
I think when people speak about bad/average/elite genetics, most people are just speaking out of thin air (myself included). I feel like average genetics are much more powerful than people make them out to be, in other words, if you are a man with no acute health issues, your body has the ability to adapt proportionally to the amount of work you put in, up to a very, very high level, higher than most think. How many people actually put in a year's worth of effort, with consistent sleep and nutrition, avoiding deleterious activities like drinking or staying up all night? Training with high intensity, having a solid workout plan, doing their best to progress, listening to their body to know when they need a deload? If you take that subset of people, I think you re-calibrate your expectations of what average muscle-building/strength genetics actually are.
Right, but the qualifier is that if someone sets out to bench 315, I’m a bad coach to tell them “you can’t”. Instead, I can outline that they need to train consistently, sleep enough, eat enough for 3-5 years and hit that goal. As far as defining genetics, standing vertical jump average is 22”. There’s also stuff like limb length and hormone levels to consider, but that neurological efficiency is the most prominent factor for strength.
I could bench 180 on my first day in gym, 225 in a month, and now 7 months later I'm at 280. 315 is gonna be a piece of cake by the end of the summer. Greg is full of shit as always.
Yeah I’d agree. At age 18 standing at 6,1 weighing 200lb I was already benching 225 for 5 reps and I only started lifting at 17. My biggest natural “steriod” was creatine I drank that for few month and has insane strength for some time I think as long as ur eating a lot and weight above 150 ur capable of benching or even repping 225.
Creatine is not "steroid" in no way whatsoever. Don't do that you will confuse the ignorant. Creatine is in many basic foods people eat like beef, salmon and many many more. You can't eat basic steroids or synthesized steroids in any food in nature and get the hormonal effect, it's the dominate male hormone or chemicals that mimic it. Testosterone overload.
@@MichaelShammasSSC I think the word steroid is being misused and overused. But whatever, I'm about to eat some chicken and rice steroid topped off with some steroid milk. Thinking about putting steroid gas in my car too.
@@gutsberserk2718 Steroid, i use that words to describe when something gives me very fast results hence natural "steriod" is creatine for me even tho its not even close to an actual steriod. Same thing can be said about other stuff like a ram trx is a ram1500 on steriods.
I think the truth lies somewhere in between but Greg makes some good points, there really are a lot of average and below people where 225 is a tough milestone but is almost always achievable. 315 is definitely not.
The issue lies with the idea of “achievable”. In Grant’s original video, he states that if 315 is a goal it’s achievable. That is certainly the case. I’ve seen plenty of average and below guys get there simply because they prioritize it. So the idea that a guy who doesn’t care about and isn’t trying to bench 315 is a straw man argument at worst, and detrimental at best (because you can bench 315).
I still agree with greg, the individuals in your gym came in for strength. The average person like me with consistent feeding and training would take him about 2 years to reach these numbers. Only exceptional folks can do 405 lbs Deadlift in a year or maybe even more. Not many can bench 315 natrually even with above average genes. I personally know natural powerlifting local champs whom have yet to reach that milestone but can deadlift 6 plates.
Yep. I rarely see people benching 3 plates + and I have been going to commercial gyms and military gyms for 21 years. In the military I did see 315+ more often than commercial though, but they were still in the small minority. I was doing a little over 3 plates and people were impressed. They are impressed because it is not common even amongst people who do regular strength training. Also the persons size matters. I was only weighing about 190-195 at a height of 5'6
In the original video Grant talks about 315 as a GOAL. If your goal is to bench 315, then yes you’re training for strength. You’re not going to hit it by accident. My point is that if it’s your goal then it is certainly attainable and you shouldn’t discourage yourself. Expect that you can do it if you try, because I’ve seen plenty of people do it.
@@gutsberserk2718I didn’t say 315 wasn’t rare, I said it’s achievable. 225 is not rare in my gym, and wouldn’t be rare of more people knew how to train.
Yet after 21+ years in the gym I very rarely see someone doing 3+ plates. Either it's unobtainable for the vast majority or they can't figure it out. Either way truth stays the same, vast majority will never bench 3+plates. Also when someone does 3+ people want to watch. Why? Because it is rare.
@@MichaelShammasSSC Heheh, well I was 275 lbs at the time and 6'4". So doing a pushup was like benching 200 lbs. (pushup is 75% BW) So it was like benching 5x sets of 20 of 200lbs. Being a fata$$ actually came in handy here
Yeah that video is ridiculous - "Average guy with average genetics will need years to bench 225". I laughed loud at it. Greg is talking about bodybuilding perspective though, not strength perspective. So when he says these things, he means that skinny 160lbs guy will need years to bench 225 with the condition that he doesn't gain any extra pounds in process. And that might be true. I mean, just look at commercial gyms LOL... Great video.
Absolutely, and I think CZcams fitness has it backwards in regards to maingaining. I’ll probably make a whole video on the topic, but if you’re a novice then it just makes sense to compound a calorie surplus on top of your prime gaining time period (unless you’re morbidly obese). Then you can cut down and maingain once you have the tools and the knowledge to actually make progress.
I had the exact same experience with SS brother I’m of average genetics and also hit all those number within a year no problem. It’s a slow progression but it absolutely works
That's awesome! I just don't want people to get the wrong idea and think that they can't do these things.
You really hit the nail on the head. Coach Greg is correct that a guy who "maingains" and starts out at 150 pounds is probably not going to achieve a 225 bench. It just sucks that he isn't being honest with his audience.
Nutrition and weight gain is an incredibly powerful and underrated combo!
I benched 225 after an year of not very structured training. Just fairly consistent. Back when I started, I weighed 165lbs 6'2 and my bench started from like 100lbs max, lol. I think most people can get to 225 in one year, with consistency. A buddy I was lifting with in my home gym made very similar progress to mine.
@@PuerRidcully 🙌🏻
@@PuerRidcully It took me two years to hit 225 (actually it was 100K cuz they use metric here in Japan). BUT I was sixty years old at the time and it only took me one year to deadlift 180KG. I was doing my best to stick with Starting Strength's method.
@@Abraham_Kist-Okazaki Good job.
I think when people speak about bad/average/elite genetics, most people are just speaking out of thin air (myself included). I feel like average genetics are much more powerful than people make them out to be, in other words, if you are a man with no acute health issues, your body has the ability to adapt proportionally to the amount of work you put in, up to a very, very high level, higher than most think.
How many people actually put in a year's worth of effort, with consistent sleep and nutrition, avoiding deleterious activities like drinking or staying up all night? Training with high intensity, having a solid workout plan, doing their best to progress, listening to their body to know when they need a deload? If you take that subset of people, I think you re-calibrate your expectations of what average muscle-building/strength genetics actually are.
Right, but the qualifier is that if someone sets out to bench 315, I’m a bad coach to tell them “you can’t”. Instead, I can outline that they need to train consistently, sleep enough, eat enough for 3-5 years and hit that goal.
As far as defining genetics, standing vertical jump average is 22”. There’s also stuff like limb length and hormone levels to consider, but that neurological efficiency is the most prominent factor for strength.
I could bench 180 on my first day in gym, 225 in a month, and now 7 months later I'm at 280. 315 is gonna be a piece of cake by the end of the summer. Greg is full of shit as always.
You love to see it!
Yeah I’d agree. At age 18 standing at 6,1 weighing 200lb I was already benching 225 for 5 reps and I only started lifting at 17. My biggest natural “steriod” was creatine I drank that for few month and has insane strength for some time I think as long as ur eating a lot and weight above 150 ur capable of benching or even repping 225.
Creatine is not "steroid" in no way whatsoever. Don't do that you will confuse the ignorant. Creatine is in many basic foods people eat like beef, salmon and many many more. You can't eat basic steroids or synthesized steroids in any food in nature and get the hormonal effect, it's the dominate male hormone or chemicals that mimic it. Testosterone overload.
Being 17 and eating a lot is maybe the best steroid there is.
@@MichaelShammasSSC I think the word steroid is being misused and overused. But whatever, I'm about to eat some chicken and rice steroid topped off with some steroid milk. Thinking about putting steroid gas in my car too.
@@gutsberserk2718 Eat steroids and do McDonald’s
@@gutsberserk2718 Steroid, i use that words to describe when something gives me very fast results hence natural "steriod" is creatine for me even tho its not even close to an actual steriod. Same thing can be said about other stuff like a ram trx is a ram1500 on steriods.
I think the truth lies somewhere in between but Greg makes some good points, there really are a lot of average and below people where 225 is a tough milestone but is almost always achievable. 315 is definitely not.
The issue lies with the idea of “achievable”. In Grant’s original video, he states that if 315 is a goal it’s achievable. That is certainly the case. I’ve seen plenty of average and below guys get there simply because they prioritize it.
So the idea that a guy who doesn’t care about and isn’t trying to bench 315 is a straw man argument at worst, and detrimental at best (because you can bench 315).
I still agree with greg, the individuals in your gym came in for strength. The average person like me with consistent feeding and training would take him about 2 years to reach these numbers. Only exceptional folks can do 405 lbs Deadlift in a year or maybe even more. Not many can bench 315 natrually even with above average genes. I personally know natural powerlifting local champs whom have yet to reach that milestone but can deadlift 6 plates.
Yep. I rarely see people benching 3 plates + and I have been going to commercial gyms and military gyms for 21 years. In the military I did see 315+ more often than commercial though, but they were still in the small minority. I was doing a little over 3 plates and people were impressed. They are impressed because it is not common even amongst people who do regular strength training.
Also the persons size matters. I was only weighing about 190-195 at a height of 5'6
In the original video Grant talks about 315 as a GOAL. If your goal is to bench 315, then yes you’re training for strength. You’re not going to hit it by accident. My point is that if it’s your goal then it is certainly attainable and you shouldn’t discourage yourself. Expect that you can do it if you try, because I’ve seen plenty of people do it.
@@gutsberserk2718I didn’t say 315 wasn’t rare, I said it’s achievable. 225 is not rare in my gym, and wouldn’t be rare of more people knew how to train.
Yeah I don't see how so many think 315 is some super hard unobtainable goal. I hit it just from doing the "100 pushup a day" challenge.
Yet after 21+ years in the gym I very rarely see someone doing 3+ plates. Either it's unobtainable for the vast majority or they can't figure it out. Either way truth stays the same, vast majority will never bench 3+plates. Also when someone does 3+ people want to watch. Why? Because it is rare.
Just imagine if you would have done 200 pushups a day 😮
@@MichaelShammasSSC Heheh, well I was 275 lbs at the time and 6'4". So doing a pushup was like benching 200 lbs. (pushup is 75% BW) So it was like benching 5x sets of 20 of 200lbs. Being a fata$$ actually came in handy here
@@telesniper2 *proud Rip sounds*
@@MichaelShammasSSC Huh?
I completely disagree. 315 is rare. 225 is not. It takes years to hit those numbers of ever at all
Well that’s exactly what I said, except it does not take years to hit 225.
Yeah that video is ridiculous - "Average guy with average genetics will need years to bench 225". I laughed loud at it.
Greg is talking about bodybuilding perspective though, not strength perspective. So when he says these things, he means that skinny 160lbs guy will need years to bench 225 with the condition that he doesn't gain any extra pounds in process. And that might be true. I mean, just look at commercial gyms LOL...
Great video.
Absolutely, and I think CZcams fitness has it backwards in regards to maingaining. I’ll probably make a whole video on the topic, but if you’re a novice then it just makes sense to compound a calorie surplus on top of your prime gaining time period (unless you’re morbidly obese). Then you can cut down and maingain once you have the tools and the knowledge to actually make progress.