Beginner's Guide to Buying Used Whitewater Kayaks
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- čas přidán 28. 02. 2023
- Summary of my top used picks for beginners
Good (expect to outgrow quickly)
Wavesport Recon
Pyranha Burn 2
Pyranha Burn 3
Pyranha Everest
Dagger RPM
Dagger Nomad (old)
Better
Dagger Nomad (new)
Dagger Mamba
Dagger Axiom
LiquidLogic Remix
LiquidLogic Jefe
LiquidLogic Stomper
LiquidLogic Braap
Jackson Nirvana
Jackson Zen2
Jackson Antix
Any Jackson playboat
Wavesport Diesel
Pyranha 9R (original)
Pyranha Machno
Wavesport Project or Project X
Wavesport ZG
Avoid everything…
Over 9 feet long
That looks like a box
Marketed as a full slice
Marketed as a “river running playboat” (unless it’s dirt cheap and only for learning to roll in a pool)
Sun faded
Broken/missing outfitting
Helmets and PFDs that come with the kayak
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“Hannah says im not allowed more that 20-30 boats” - dude teach me your secrets, im only allowed 3 😂
Well I got her hooked so she has a bunch too. That helps!
@@AlexBarhamthat's the secret....change up her priorities.
Great video. Your my go to for looking for used boats. Always trust your thoughts
Thank you!!
Super helpful video thank you.
Great to hear! Good luck!!
Great vid Alex, lots of really specific info to look out for, buying used is really something that's not talked about very much. I bought a used Nirvana L a few years back as my first white water boat and really enjoy it, recently I grabbed a Project 62 to try out playboating this season. Stoked for your next vid on used boats!
Glad it was helpful! Sounds like you found two good ones on your own!
Super video. Many thanks
You're very welcome!
Alex, that was one of the most interesting and valuable vids I've seen in a long time. Thank you for your stellar service to the community. During Covid lockdown, going crazy and wishing I could relive my teenage years on the water, my mouse hovered over many second-hand boats on eBay. In the end, I bought new. (Dagger Code M.) There is a lot of junk out there -- and you just helped explain the difference between junk and "old skool". Great work!
Thanks! Welcome back!
You can still get old skool Perceptions that are great and have plenty of life in them. I disagree with him on this, if the outfitting is complete and its still in good shape they still make great beginner boats. Many go have them for "race/trainers" because the older boats are longer and carry alot more speed. Pros and Cons- I'd put many of the older Proline Perceptions up against a Dagger RPM any day.
Keep doing these, so helpfull
Thanks, will do!
My little cousin cracked his wave sport recon. I repurposed the outfitting in my Dagger Medieval, and it made my Medi the best full slice I own.
I need a cousin that give me outfitting!
My daughter was stoked her old Vision made it on your channel!!! (definitely not a beginner boat)
Hahahaha well I am glad I didn't hurt her feelings! If it doesn't sell that purple would make amazing cutting boards and dog bowls! Please consider donating it to Boats2Boards. We can work out getting her something with the logo on it as a keepsake.
@@AlexBarham not at all! Potatoes are too slow for her. She's still in the water, just in a long boat. If I don't squeeze myself in there, I'll holler at ya!
Thank you!
You're very welcome!
Hi, Alex. I enjoyed the video, thank you. Yesterday I noticed my 12 year old has outgrown his Jackson 1.5. I probably should have been more attentive he seemed fine at pool lessons this winter. He has a roll, he is timid in bigger waves but has started surfing tiny waves and feeling his way. We do have lots of flat water in Southern Ontario so it nice to have something moves along. I canoe and don’t have the answers in choices but I want him to be comfortable and get something that will be fun. Thank you, Christopher
Have you looked into the smallest Axiom? There is a kids size that is designed for just his age and situation. Will keep up on flats, surfs green waves very well, and runs rapids with confidence.
@@AlexBarham That’s great, thanks. I think that was mentioned, just found your beginner video. It is fun watching kids progress so I want him to continue.
Great video Alex! Now you need to do a video on how to convince a spouse that you need another boat! 😂
I'll ask Hannah if she has any tips 🤣
This is actually quite simple….
What I told my wife was “I might have many different kayaks, but I only have one of her”.
That usually seals the deal. Remember, life is chess not checkers so sometimes we do/say what we have to do 😂
Hi Alex
Looking at a LL stomper 90 as im a bit heavy for my RPM. Its good condition and pretty cheap has badass outfitting. It seems one of the only boats used atm that is big enough for me.
Many thanks great content
The stomper is fantastic as a technical creeker where you just need to land flat every time. By today's standards it is quite slow so bear that in mind
@@AlexBarham many thanks Alex I'm cool with going slow. More concerned with size and comfort and room for my feet in something other then a pair of floppy shoes.
Thanks again
@livelyfpv4870 sure thing!
What do you think of a used G-Force for a beginner Alex? Master of none like the Transformer or worth a shot if it's clean and cheap? Love the channel man!
You can get something much better for the money
Fun video. I got a Wavesport Z and then a pyranha ammo, which seem like no nos according to your video. I like them a lot but have some stuff to consider for the future.
Let's just say you'll appreciate your next purchase even more
@@AlexBarham thanks for these videos alex, i am just getting into whitewater after seakayaking for a while and i find your content very helpful, this video here in particular. did you specifically mention the pyranha ammo in your video? if so i must have missed it. i am currently looking at one used for $500 in what seems good condition. i should pass then? thanks
I would! Glad you're enjoying them! Questions are always welcome in the comments
lmao, I guided one day in a pfd identical to that purple extrasport, had lost my real pfd and found that in my parents basement. wouldn't use it again but man did it rock
Ooooooff yeah just say no
Alex, thanks for doing all of the videos that you are providing, great information. Looking to pickup my first whitewater boat, and have searched thru all of your videos but haven't seen anything on a Dagger GT 8.1. Living in Northern Michigan, we really don't have much whitewater, but I have always been interested in learning ever since I rafted numerous times on the Gauley. Getting up there in years myself, 66, but still adventurous, and want to at least give it a try before the bucket list expires, if you know what I mean. Anyways, would the Dagger GT 8.1 be a boat for me? I'm about 5'8" and 175. Have one spotted for around $200.
Sure thing! Do me a favor and hit all those magic buttons so others can find them as well.
A GT for 200 will be a solid score. Spend lots of time outfitting and make sure she is TIGHT!
Good stuff! Why the particular dislike for the WS XYZ? Is it just because they fall in the boxy river running playboat category or is there more to the story? Ask because I just picked up a mint z for 150 that I thought would make a fun summer boat for a very tall guy. Thanks
Can't get too hurt for 150 I guess, but for a first timer boat buyer I want them to get the best possible and get hooked!
The Diesel DID have a early batch of bad plastic so be warned. The Y while not a super high performance boat is a great jack of all trades and IMO is why its great for a beginner- it DOES surf, it can carve in and out of eddies (one of the earliest hybrid planning hull hybrid river runner/creekers). For smaller paddlers it has enough volume AND smooth enough edges to creek., plus the older crosslink IS bomber unless you just absolutely piton the shit out of it.
Okay, but for the money how many better designs are there in the used market? And how many of them have better outfitting?
Dozens.
Also my college club had 2 of the first run designs, ultimately stepping it up to 4-5 of the things and none had durability issues. Far from it
As a serious alternative to previous comments, I find it much preferable to buy the newest model boats at retail price, which makes you look and feel like a better paddler as it has the most modern design features and your fellow paddlers will be your best friend OTR because they want to demo it. You can paddle the new boat for a year and a half and often get a good resale value and it only cost you a few hundred $$ or so to paddle the newest, best designs on the market. Equally important is you’re supporting your local kayaking outfitter and their manufacturers. To save a little money, but still get a relatively new boat, buy the rental/demo boats from a kayak school/camp at the end of the season as they’re typically in pretty good condition as beginner paddlers are not typically splatting and boofing their boats on every dang rock above and just below the water surface.
Definitely! This is for sure the way to go if you can afford it! There is no replacement for better designs.
@Alex Barham you just have to buy the first one or two new boats (i.e., RR/creeker & half-slice). Kayaking is a relatively less expensive sport until you start buying expensive vehicles to shuttle them around, a sprinter van to travel to distant rivers and festivals and quit your job cuz you wanna be OTR all the time. But, first things first... boats.
I shot some footy for a shuttle rig talk, but I figured the blowback from people over penny-pinching would outweigh the appreciation of tech talk.
@Alex Barham I think that's a brilliant idea, one that I haven't seen anyone address. I'm a relatively new paddler and imagine there are common protocols and etiquette re: shuttling and beginners/novice kayakers paddling w old schoolers. You've touched on these topics as did Hannah in a recent YT. BTW, part of what I like about the WW community is its homegrown nature that doesn't involve $15k engine mods to add 75 extra HP for your 500 HPDodge Viper...not that I have one, but Ferrari, Maserati, Bentley and Land Rovers are very common in Potomac, MD and the entitled attitude that may accompany them.
Bahaha yeah no, Hannah is from that area and there are some unique features to that community.
I was thinking more in the choosing wisely pros/cons, things you can do vein
Hey Alex! Absolutely love your videos you make, they’re fantastic and very informative. I’m from Morgantown, WV and about to get into whitewater kayaking near the Cheat River. I’m a beginner as I’ve only made it down Class I and II while using a sit on top kayak. About to purchase a boat when I find the right price. There is a Dagger RPM I’m looking at for $215 - would you recommend this for a beginner to learn how to roll? I thought I heard in one of your other videos to maybe avoid this if you’re new to the sport? For some background, I’m a 23 yr old 155lb 6ft guy. What would your professional advice be on this boat? And even feel free to recommend others to me as well. Thank you so much!!
Every hardcore paddler should own an RPM. At $200 it will be hard to go too far wrong, but you're going to have to put in some elbow grease. You'll want to watch my outfitting guide video and take your outfitting upgrades quite seriously. Focus on getting "ski-boot" tight.
As for the design of the boat itself you'll learn to do things the right way, but the hard way, in an RPM compared to some of the newer boats. Get your roll absolutely dialed in so you aren't spending your summer swimming. Save up while you're getting comfortable in Class 3, and be ready to upgrade when you go to Class 4. Make sure you've invested in an excellent helmet and PFD before you buy another boat.
One more advice question for you - I appreciated you getting back to me on that. Someone had taken the boat by the time I got around to it.
Would you steer me in the direction of a Fluid Detox (Medium) boat for $450 (with paddle and skirt) or $350 for a Liquid Logic Stomper 80 ? Which is going to be better to A. Learn in, since I am taking lessons this week) and B. Go down Class I II and III in?
Feedback would be greatly appreciated Alex, you’re the man thank you!
Cameron Miller definitely the stomper. No question
I took the Fluid Detox out in still water right above some rapids this weekend just to mess around with it but it seemed like the eddies just overtook it and I was spinning. Now granted I don’t know what I’m doing yet, hence the reasoning for lessons. But let me know your thoughts, thanks much!
Out of curiosity, have you run the Recon, Alex? I ask because I'm looking at a used one now as my first WW boat. It's in mint condition and I can get it for about a third of what a new creeker will cost me after taxes, but the displacement hull does have me questioning whether I might not just be better splurging and going for a new one with a planer hull (enrolled in lessons for pool and river so I'm starting out right, especially since I live right by the Rouge and Ottawa). Have a good one - love the content ;-)
I have, but your location is a really important factor here. Being in a big water heavy region part of the reason that boat is so cheap is because it is a displacement hull. Planing hulls do MUCH better up there.
@@AlexBarham Thanks, Alex. I'll stick with a new option - Gnar and RMX96 look interesting (I'm 6'2, 215, so I have to go with something in the large).
The Gnar is fantastic. I have an RMX waiting for the rivers to thaw. We will see how it does, but it looks promising
@@AlexBarham Great - I'll be watching to see what your thoughts on it are. From my very limited experience it looks like the Gnar would be a little friendlier to start in and perhaps more fun in shallower water for practicing. Take care, and thanks ;-)
It is definitely a solid buy. Idk where to even find Logic in Ontario
Hi, thanks for this video!
Is there a model/make that would work better for someone with wider hips? My gf is a little to big to fit into the liquid logic jefe I just picked up.
Thanks :)
Try a Dagger Phantom. Larger seat pan, but in a smaller boat
What about a pyranha h3 for a 1st ww boat? Also, I always see tons or perception boats
If it is absolutely dirt cheap then it's certainly something to start with. These weren't considered to be that great in their own time.
I got a medium Machno and a Dagger Axiom 6.9 kids kayak for my son for $650 for both. Hope i did good.
You did amazing. Two fantastic boats
nooo I live near canton and would buy those machnos is they had a medium
Seriously. It was a good thing for me they were far away
Thanks for the information in the video. I am hoping to by my first whitewater kayak on Monday from a guy on Facebook marketplace. It is a code medium but i am a little concerned what the actual value of the boat is based on condition. The guy has sent me 12 pictures along with saying there are no cracks welds oil canning etc. I am praying i dont spend this money then go to buy my necessary equipment and be told by someone or find out that i have wasted my money. Any extra advice would be appreciated as i hope to be paddling in it on Tuesday.
Hard to go wrong with a Code. As long as you aren't over-paying you'll be fine
What are your thoughts on Dagger Piedras?
When I was a kid looking to get into kayaking I desperately wanted a playboat. The salesman at the shop sold my mom on getting my a Piedra instead. That boat was my personal "pinky bunny suit".
I think if there is a really speific reason why you want to paddle one then go for it, but it lives in obscurity for a reason. Odds are if you're looking at old school on a budget you'd be much happier in an RPM
Hi Alex, Question for you , I'm just getting back into paddling after 30yrs ,I was a class 3-3 plus paddler, I still have a solid roll. All the boats I paddled back in the day were displacement hull ,perception dancer and perception overflow. I'm shopping for a boat now and considering a small dagger code or a small pyranah machno, I'm 135 lbs. I was able to try the machno and it felt pretty good but am leaning toward the code but am unable to test it out first. Your input would be greatly appreciated, Thank you, brian
Hey Brian! Some of this will come down to the feel you desire. Do you want the latest performance, and/or do you want some nostalgia in how the boat handles? The Machno and Code are incredibly capable, but are mostly going to run around jumping over everything in their path with the subtlety of monster trucks. If you want something with a little more personality, and are thinking back to the days of really working on edging and smooth transitions go straight to the Zet Five. The other boat that is perfect for your size and does a bit of both is the Verus Flux.
@@AlexBarham That's really valuable information Alex, The idea of a monster truck paints a really clear picture, I'm in canada and haven't seen any zet five or verus dealers but I will look into it more. another boat that was suggested to me was the jackson antix 2.0 but it looked a little aggressive to me ,although I should be able to test that one. Thank you so much for your input you've saved me from making a quick poor decision.
I'll be your closest location if you're on the east coast for Verus and Zet. Just reach out if you want to come down for a demo.
Antix 2 is great in medium, and I am not surprised to hear a Jackson being recommended in Canada, especially if you're anywhere near the Ottawa. However, I expect you'll find it slow and a bit sluggish coming from older designs. The Rewind, Ripper 1, or even an RPM would probably make you happier in terms of half slices
@@AlexBarham I'm closer to the west coast ,canmore ,alberta. It would be a hell of a drive to test a boat LOL. I'm not really a fan of the jackson outfitting ,prefere the ratchet system. The half slices all seem too aggressive to me , I like the look of the bottom on the zet five , I'm gonna try to find one of those I think. thanks again for your time .
Have you done any videos on boat for bigger people? I'm 6'2" 230. No idea what to get, all these boats look small.
Absolutely! Check out the Large sizes of the Nirvana, Gnarvana and Machno
@@AlexBarham cool! Thankyou!
Oh and the Code!
@@AlexBarham I've only used my Trophy 126 on lake and class 1-2. But my friend has gone up to class 4 every weekend the last 6 months and I want to get in on it. Just don't have a bunch of cash or a dry suit. He uses an Aire Lynx. I was looking at a Sea Eagle 380x, 300x and the used market. Thanks for the video!
Nice. This is gonna get crossposted so much on groups and forums
I don't think it has, but if it does then that means I did something right!
@@AlexBarhamyou did something right. Lots to learn here.
Don't buy a river running playboat? Check out 2010 Jackson Funs. Best design ever.
I would rather be in any number of playboats or half slices
My buddy bought that green mamba this morning 😂
No way! That is pretty funny
Lib and I are picking it up for him on our way down to the whitewater center for green water day.
Nice! Wish I could make a southern trip right now
This is not appreciated, I already have enough competition pulling gems out of garages here in Ohio. :)
Just gotta get there first!