Installing an FS140 Siemens Surge Protector
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- čas přidán 14. 08. 2022
- -ABR Electric in McKinney TX
214-690-1941
abrelectric.com
ABR Electric Installing an FS140 Seimens Whole House Surge Protector
If you live in an old house, the chances are that your home either doesn’t have any grounding or the two-pronged plugs are without any grounding wire. These arrangements can’t protect your expensive gadgets from the power surge. And do you know a power surge can damage your multiple electronic gadgets in few minutes? However, an SPD (surge protector device) can be your solution.
Though you can easily plug a surge protector in selected outlets, it is advisable to get all the outlets of your house covered. But how to install a whole-house surge protector? You can do that by installing an FS140 Siemens whole-house surge protector from ABR Electric in McKinney.
It is always better to take the help of professionals like ABR Electric for the installation of FS140 Siemens whole-house surge protector as they have complete knowledge about this product and will install it perfectly.
Why do you need a FS140 Siemens whole-house surge protector?
As we all know, an electrical surge can damage all your expensive electronic gadgets within few minutes. So, if you want to safeguard your home against any kind of electrical surges, then FS140 Siemens whole-house surge protector is the best option for you. Not only does it provide protection against external power surges but also safeguards your home against any kind of internal power surges.
FS140 Siemens whole-house surge protector is a type 1 SPD that is specially designed to safeguard your entire house against any kind of electrical surges. It comes with a LED indicator that lets you know whether it is working properly or not. Moreover, it also has a thermal overload protection that automatically shuts off the power supply in case of any overloading.
ABR Electric in McKinney offers FS140 Siemens whole-house surge protector at the most competitive prices. So, if you want to install FS140 Siemens whole-house surge protector in your home, then contact ABR Electric in McKinney today.
ABR Electric
214-690-1941
abrelectric.com
Why Do You Need a Whole-House Surge Protector? There are power grid outages, severe weather, and infrastructure improvements that put your home at risk of severe electricity surges. If you use technology in your house, it may be time to invest in a whole-house surge protector. Find out what you need to know about What Is a Whole House Surge Protector?
.You may think your electronics and appliances are safe because you've plugged them into a power strip. But are they really safe? Or is that power strip no more than an extension cord with extra outlets? What happens when electronic circuits are subjected to power surges?
surge protector is an appliance designed to protect your home from voltage spikes. A surge can come from any number of sources: a power line, the phone line, or even the cable TV line. All it takes is a transient voltage spike, and your electrical devices can be ruined.
While most power strips will offer some level of protection, they are not true surge protectors. A power strip simply provides additional outlets; it does not provide any real protection against surges.
A whole-house surge protector, on the other hand, is installed at the main electrical panel. This type of surge protector will offer protection for your entire home, not just individual devices.
Installing a whole-house surge protector is one of the best ways to protect your home from voltage spikes. If you use technology in your house, it may be time to invest in a whole-house surge protector.
How many Surges does a surge protector have? how long does it last?
Most estimates put the average lifespan of a surge protector at three to five years. However Seimens has a 10 year product warranty.
A whole-house surge protector, on the other hand, is installed at the main electrical panel. This type of surge protector will offer protection for your entire home, not just individual devices.
If your home is subject to frequent brownouts or blackouts, you might want to replace your surge protectors as often as every two years.
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"Some of you old-school guys..."
Proceeds to do the work without shutting off the main breaker. 🤣
I'm retired now but,I love watching your videos and seeing you teaching and doing it correctly.
Rusty! You are very kind
Great video, I can't wait to install the one you sent me. I would love to see it installed with the flush mount kit.
A savage with a tape measure. A true warrior with blood on his hands. Thank you for the video.
ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT BIBI NATANYAHU. BRAVO.
Thank you James. I plan to do a similar installation, except the FS140 will be mounted on the side of my flush mounted breaker box. You tips and guidance is a huge help.
Thank you! I really appreciate the positive feedback:)
a year ago when I did this. I turned everything off. You got some balls doing this. Respect
It's always safer to work it Off. I'm used to it, and still very careful. Besides, didn't want to reset all of my clocks :)
Thank you for a great explanation and honest video. As a fellow electrician, I'm screwed as I have no more room in my panel with all the 20yrs of projects I've done on my home.
Does your panel allow installation of tandem breakers? You could combine a couple lower load circuits onto tandems to open a couple slots. Especially with how little current runs on lighting circuits now with LED bulbs. I did that to mine to get it in. Each circuit with all the lights on only pulls a couple amps at the most on a 15A circuit when I checked with a clamp meter. Moved some light circuits to a tandem (panel is authorized for it), and opened up a couple slots at the bottom. Maybe you've already checked into that though.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Excellent video James I’m the guy who emailed you about my electrician installing to the main feed lines into my 200 amp panel. Thanks to your advice I’m going to get him to redo that install that would have voided the warranty (no breaker).
James, damn this video was refreshing! When it comes to DIY, I like to be as informed as possible...or I wont mess with it. A lot of the videos I watched, were people essentially winging it. Thank you for taking it seriously and sharing your knowledge. I am definitely a new subscriber!
Excellent, i been sparkin for over 30yrs too BUT its my first fs140 install today so im greenhorning it!, love how ya work alot like i do, gives me confidence! Haha! Thanks for the well informed tutorial!👌⚡️
You sir, are very kind. Thank you
You did a really good job of talking/walking your viewers through the process of installing this surge protector in a straightforward manner. I appreciate it when guys like you take the time to create an instructional video that can help people evaluate whether they need to hire a professional or tackle it on their own. I'm betting that you saved a number of people some big money by showing them this project is within their skill level. Bravo to you! I do want to mention that when I install mine, I will tin the wire strands with solder before inserting them into the ground/neutral bus bars. I believe that would provide a more solid connection and it helps ensure that none of the wire strands break off while inserting the wire into the bus bar holes and/or when tightening-down the screws that hold the wires in place. It's really critical to maintain the ground/neutral wire thickness with surge protectors such as this one.
That is a great point. Share some pictures of that process, if you can.
I like his videos. However, all the drama could have been avoided with a cleaner install (inside the box).
Great Video... very clear and easy to understand. You ARE a good teacher.
Thank you. I really appreciate the encouragement:)
I was under the impression that you should always install the surge protection breaker as close to the mains as possible
Closer to main is more efficient protection.The surge would pass through every breaker before it hits the SP.
I thought the same thing. I called Siemens and spoke with one of their technical engineers about this. They said ideally yes, if you're doing a new install with one, locate the SPD as close to the main as possible. They said if you're just adding one to an existing panel, anywhere is nearly as good. When I installed mine, I only had one open spot on the very bottom. I had to put a tandem breaker in to open up two spots at the bottom to get the double pole in for installation. They said that would be plenty sufficient and the most important thing when installing these is to keep the wires as short, and as straight as possible, that is far more important than the location on the bus bar. Otherwise you'd have to move and relabel every other spot too.
@@bradskis81 An alternative is to install a Siemens QSA2020SPD if you have a Siemens panel. It can replace breakers that are close to the main feed *and* provide SPD functionality. Its designed for full panels. 40,000 amp protection isn't as good as this unit, but some protection is better than no protection.
@@JeanPierreWhite I'll look into that, as I have two main panels and should ideally have one protector in each panel.
@@bradskis81 This is great news! I'm adding to an existing panel and no way can I get it up top close to the main feed. Now knowing this, I'm going to get it done. There's room at the bottom, and I can certainly keep the leads short and straight no problem. Sweet!
Very well done. Thank you for the good information.
Thank you for the details and professional opinion here. All of your videos are awesome.
Thank you - that is very kind
Thks man ! You have been a great help! Regards.👍👍
Thank you!
You should be minimizing the length between the surge protector and the panel. Ideally you want to mount it into a CB at the first position from where the L1/L2 Enters. Shorter length = better protection.
I have this installed, its my understanding that this breaker should be the first position right off the main lugs to provide the max protection to all circuits down the panel NOT at the bottom as shown here
That’s my understanding as well
yep he installed it wrong!!!!
Read the instructions from the manufacturer. The critical items are to keep the wires as short as possible between breaker and spd and to not have bends in the wire
@@ericnewton5720 read the manufacturer instructions. May be different than your understanding.
@@rivergate950 check the manufacturer's instructions. See my response to AM 1015 above.
From Siemens tech: "Use whichever allows the shortest lead length with the fewest bends. Try not to have bends exceeding 90%, you can go further, however, it is not optimal."
Thanks!
thank you...
Man i guess i did mine wrong. I installed it at the bottom. The two hot wires in the 20amp double pole breaker are at the bottom as that was the only spot in my panel. It definitely works though. My power didnt go off during the thunderstorm like it normally does
I have the same Envoy..mine has mini breakers that I am not impressed with...one just corroded out and needed replacement...Enphase wasnt as helpful as they could be..and I couldnt locate the same mini breaker elsewhere to fit. 8 years ago in Massachusetts for my 8kw solar install the electricians were using terminal strips and crimp connectors EVERYWHERE. Having 3 differend arrays..I have a few junction boxes. I just had a set of panels not report...found loose wires in junctions. After discussion with current professionals...only the DC connections need terminals now. I cut some wires back and used quality..and tight wire nuts everywhere. All good now.
Great video, thanks for sharing your expertise! I've seen some videos on installing whole home surge protectors and I do have a few questions. Why didn't you use a Square D whole home surge protector? Just curious & why didn't you place the breaker for FS140 at the top 1st in line after the main? Asking because that was part of the instructions on many other videos I watched but I know this is your expertise and just wanted to know if there was a logical explanation to why you installed at the bottom/end of the breakers?
I have to say, you mention the FS140 will not work on other voltages, and you are correct, all our SPDs are voltage specific. So, if a customer is in another country or has another voltage, WE offer solutions for those. The FirstSurge SPDs are meant for most American residential systems that are 120/240.
That is a great point! Also the issue of system grounding. Many countries don't have a system bond to Earth at 240 V
@@abrelectric Anyone have ANY idea which surge protector would work in Brazil? We have 3 phase coming into the house meter. Only two are used though in the house. We do have neutral and ground "Terra", however upon me inspecting the work (overall atrocious). They never actually pounded in any ground rods. They only connected the ground to the street service pole with a band of plumbing strap. Yep, you can shake your head. So, I need to do those two 6 feet apart after our service box on the street. 220v service here.
Awesome tutorial video sir! Question at 9:45 what is that adapter called you secured to the fs140? If you can please share links of all the parts used to connect the spd to your breaker box. Thank you in advance!
I found the video to be very informative and easy to follow along. I also dig the Team RWB shirt! Quick question regarding landing neutral and ground wires on a neutral bus bar: my bus bar has no slots left for anymore connections, even though my 200A Siemens panel still has about 10 slots left for future branch circuits. Can I put a neutral and a ground under the same lug on the bus bar to make room? Furnace just crapped out on us at 18 year mark and we're upgrading to a 2 stage Lennox with 2 step AC with a Mini Split in our addition. HVAC guy gave me an estimate with an option to have 2 surge protectors installed (why 2, I have no idea) when one should protect everything in the panel. After looking at the quoted price, then researching the cost of the SPD from a local store, I decided not to pay 10x the cost of the unit and just do it myself. Thanks in advance for any guidance.
Best option: add a neutral terminal. Easiest way, assuming this is your main panel, tap 2 holes, add the buss, connect it to the existing neutral bus with a #4. You're creating future capacity, and not just "kicking the can down the road"
Hi. Wondering what I can install on my Murray (Siemens) Panel that will give a clean Sine Wave thru my cb’s to my receptacles to protect my Boiler and all other Sensitive Equipment. Is there something similar to what you have shown us in this great video? All the best to you and family, Mike i.
Just like most newer homes, we have an outdoor breaker box which is the main in, breakers for 220v dryer, AC units/compressor and 2 water heaters etc.. Would we need 2 of these? One for the main breaker outside AND the low voltage panel in the garage? I saw you had another video for doing a flush mount and it was for an indoor panel. Thanks!
One outside at the main with your 220 volt distribution would suffice.
I did the indoor one to demonstrate the flush installation.
Good video thanks
Another project for my list 🙄
Great video, thank you so much for sharing this info. I had quick question; would connecting the FS 140 to a sub panel off the main offer protection for everything in the main and the sub or does it have to be connected to the main panel? Do I need one per panel? The instructions don't help for this scenario. I have better mounting options off the sub and the sub and main are within a foot of each other, thanks!
The FS140 should be mounted off of the main. In the same situation, I have either installed tandem breakers in the main panel to make space, or move a few circuits over to the subpanel
@@abrelectric If you have one on the main can you still mount them on sub panels for additional protection?
@jaycahow4667 absolutely! Layers are fantastic
The SQ-D HEPD80 has instructions in the back of the that pamphlet that says that you can put ring terminals on the hot wires and connect directly to the 1/4x20 threaded studs bonding the main breaker to the bus bars! It is the next best way unless you go with Type 1! Just turn off your main breaker, Terminate your neutral and ground wires, then temporarily remove the 1/4-20 nuts, place your hot leads with the ring terminals on the studs and replace the nuts tightly per torque specs. It is a clean looking install, and does not take 2 Pole space and that breaker really does nothing for the surge protection (only if the SPD is Type 1 of course).
Good solution!
Enjoy your videos. I am Looking at an install for a flush mount panel. I watched your other videos where you explained the advantage of twisting the wires to get the rating back when you have long runs to the breaker and ground/neutral connections. Is this something you considered doing here? I need to come from the bottom like you did here, with the main feed located top and the available breaker is near the top (which is good) so I have a long run. Also my ground bus is on the left and the neutral bus is on the right so I doubt I can twist those wires because they are going to have to take different paths.
Later info I got from Siemens tech support said the wire twisting was more an issue for commercial installations with longer runs.
Great video! Question on location. My outdoor meter/panel only has one 200A breaker as the main cutoff for inside the house. I could not visibly see an available space for a second breaker to install this type of Surge Protector outside my home. The main sub panel that comes off this outdoor panel/meter is inside my basement. Do I install the protector inside my basement panel or is there an option for installing it in the outdoor panel which I am not seeing available? Thanks!
I would imagine that it is of primary importance to have the 140 as close to the service entrance as possible. If you have no slots available on the 200A main...but do have available slots on the sub panel... You can move the loads from your main to the sub...and now have open slots in the main for your required 20A 240v breaker for your new surge protector. You can wire nut the loads that you removed in the main...and send them to the sub using the same gauge wire. This is perfectly safe and acceptable. Of note...legally...making changes in your electrical panel requires an electrical permit. My inspector is happy with my changes...I have learned to do them in accordance to the NEC.
The breaker for the FS140 is not for over-current protection, they come equipped with their own, the breaker is used as a safe means of disconnect (I work for the manufacturer).
I used to wonder why Cutler-Hammer resi SPD instructs the use of a 50A breaker when it comes pre-wired with a 14AWG wire which should be connected with a 15A breaker. I found out it’s so they can fudge their nominal kA rating.
FirstSurge is the only residential SPD on the market with Ground Reference Monitoring (GRM), meaning it's constantly monitoring the integrity of the N-G bond, and if it comes loose or disconnected, the alarm will sound and red trouble light will flash, while the green phase LEDs will remain illuminated. The other instance it will go into alarm mode would be at its end of life. The alarm sound is about the noise level of when your smoke alarm battery is dying, so nothing to wake the neighbors.
Beautiful installation demo!
If the FS140 is a type 2 surge protector, then it requires a breaker. Is that not the case?
@@abrelectric UL 1449 listings for *most* whole house SPDs require the SPD to be connected to a breaker for fault current protection, and connecting to a breaker makes it easier to install for most residential applications. Constructing a SPD in this manner helps keep cost down compared to SPDs designed for commercial application.
@@Terable13 thank you!
How would you define the difference between Type 1 and Type 2 SPDs?
@@abrelectric if you have questions about Siemens SPDs for resi or commercial, I can help!
Same. Comment. After spending a week at a square d facility. The consensus of opinion. Spend the money for the best put at the top of panel close to the main. Shortest leads as possible.
Great video. I have a question, hopefully, you can answer it. If I have a spot at both the inside breaker panel and outside one which location would offer better protection? The cable run from the outside panel and inside panel is about 40-45ft. Thank you for the video and any advice you can spare.
Traditionally, closer to where the utlity conductors come in is better. However, if all your branch circuits are in the inside panel, that would be a solid location. Tge other consideration is whether you have access to Type 1 spd (no breaker required) or Type 2 spd that requires its own breaker.
@@abrelectric I thought that would probaly be the case thank you for confirming my belief. Merry Christmas.
@@Antexjerr1 thank you! Merry Christmas
Hey man, I'm also an electrician rtrician up here in NJ. That's some good advice on the Siemens surge protection device. I like installing premium equipment and this seems a lot better than the Eaton stuff I've been installing. Hit subscribed too!
Awesome sauce - appreciate that electricalron!
Ron, when and where did you serve in the military? I appreciate vets a bunch
@@abrelectric Navy Seabees and Al Jubail Saudi Arabia at Fleet Hospital 15! ODS!
We build, we fight!
@@abrelectric … and party all night! Can do!
Hi Mr. Mc Kinney, I placed my Siemens FS -140 surge protector inside my garage electrical panel. Should,I have placed the surge protector on the outside electric panel like on this video? I noticed from you other video that you had placed inside.
I would like to see installing a surge protector at the transfer line for a home standby generator
From watching other people install the Eaton SP here on YT they install the breaker close to the feeder. From your video the breaker for the old SP is on the very bottom. I get it, short wires, but does that ruin the surge protector's performance or working properly? I was thinking about doing it the way you wired the old Eaton SP because I have the same set up as you have it in this video and thinking of getting the Eaton because its available in the big box stores here in my parts.
Follow the manufacturer's instructions, in detail. You cannot go wrong since those instructions were made for the UL listing for best performance.
Two days ago, I spoke for an hour to an engineer supervisor at Siemens SPD customer support. She was amazingly knowledgeable and gave me lots of tips. She commented about how much incorrect information on SPDs was on the internet. Surprise! The only purpose of the breaker is to simply disconnect the SPD from the panel. All type 2 SPDs by Code require a disconnect. You can use a 20 or a 30 amp 2 pole. Makes NO difference. Both are listed since all the FS's use 10 guage wire. They do not function as over-current devices. SPDS are over voltage devices. Next: Siemens engineers tested and found It makes no difference where on the bus you put the breakers. You do NOT need to put them next to the feeds or main breaker. The MOVs in the SPD will be the path of least resistance for the surge regardless of where the breaker is. Next: short wires to the breaker is strongly recommended, as was done here. Lastly, tight wire bends are not recommended. But 4.5 inch radius bends, like from Carlon 3/4" 90 deg. PVC non metallic conduit elbows are fine.
I have talked to many customer service engineers, this lady was the brightest and most helpful.
@@WorldwideBeagle Thanks for your comments here Peter. I too called Siemens and they confirmed you can put the breaker anywhere in the panel box. That is certainly easier and provides for greater installation flexibility
I just installed one of these and went through the effort of moving all my breakers on one side of the panel down two spots so it would be as close to the main breaker as possible. I found this suggestions somewhere but can't remember where. Was that a waste of time? I see a lot of these installed at the bottom of the panel or wherever is convenient.
Psychologically, no.
Technically, maybe. Check the manufacturer's instructions: do they require it? At the end of the day, good on you: you installed a surge protector to protect your house.
Should you place a whole house surge protector within the subpanel as well?
What is your experience with BadWolfUSA surge protector?
I have added a spd at my subpanel in addition to the one at my main panel for peace of mind. We have quite a bit of lightning and surges where I live. However, I don't have any factual science that this will give me better protection.
I have seen several mentions of Bad Wolf spds, but have no personal experience.
question, is there code inspection requirement for how many anchors to the wall? if it fits in panel with door closed; does that meet most codes? thanks for the video
Apart from "normal" code requirements, your installation minimum standards will be set by the manufacturer in the installation instructions.
Is your qo on the recall list? I'm looking at the homeline plug on natural for my new house
Nope. The plug on neutral panel recall, only panels from plant 15, Feb 2020 thru Jan 2022. Only needs a neutral lug to be checked, torqued to 25 in lbs.
hey, weird question, I received my FS140 today and when I tilt it it sounds like something loose rolling around in there a loose piece of something is that normal???? thought Id ask before I lose another few days sending it back and waiting for a new one
Just looking for clarification, you need a neutral and ground in the panel or you need the neutral and ground bonded together in the panel?
If you're installing the surge protector in the main panel,the neutral and the ground will be bonded.if you're installing the surge protector in a subpanel,the ground in neutral will be separated. Either one will work for installing this device.
The critical component is that your electrical system is grounded to earth.
@@abrelectric you would be surprised at how some panels do not have the neutral and ground bonded 🤦🏻♂️. Appreciate the clarification and educational video 👍🏼.
There are some who mention that the breakers be installed as close to the main line in as possible. Is this a consideration or will any slot work for the FS-140?
It is a consideration. The spd will work in any spot. There is lessening of the protection level the further you get from the main feeders.
So a 20 Amp Double-Pole Type QP Circuit Breaker will be OK to use? I question because in your video it look like a double pole, single throw rather than a 2 pole with the bar connection the 2 switches for 110/220. Is there a difference? If so, what is the one you are using? Thanks
I used a standard Square D QO 2 pole 20 amp breaker. What brand is QP?
@@abrelectric Truthfully I don't know myself! But I am going to use a siemens 20 amp Double-Pole which Homedepot has with others QD, QP, QAF ? I have the FS140 already to go other than the breaker. Anyway you do a great job of causally explaining how to install, Well done! Again, grateful for your swift reply!!
@@erickissinger436 QP 2 pole 20 amp is correct for the Siemens
Reason for the short leads is that want you to install it as close to the main breaker as possible.
That opposite of what your doing.
No, the longer the leads are, the higher the spike voltage, irrespective of where the device is in the panel.
See Joe Wagner's comment at my video "Zen of Surge Protection". He lays out test results on surge protectors with different wire lengths.
@@abrelectric
You can't change the laws of physics.
Electricity follows the Path Of Least Resistance, which with Wires and Insulation will measure as the shortest Wires.
All surge manufacturers will tell you to wire it as close to the main breaker.
@@jackflackatari To that point, show me an example of an spd manufacturer's instructions that directs you to mount the unit as close as possible to the Main Breaker or Disconnect.
@@abrelectric
Is this your first SPD installation?
Do you read instructions?
The Simeon's your installing tells you to keep the leads as short as possible. Picture shows it right next to the Main Breaker. Read the instructions for the Eaton you took off of your panel, same thing. You should know this if your a Master electrician.
@@jackflackatari thank you
Can you install this in the service panel to house? Mine is just the meter with a fairly large circuit panel below it with only 1 200amp breaker installed. Could I put the 20amp breaker in that panel instead of the panel that's indoor, flush mount, no easy place to mount the FS140 on the side? If so, mount the 20amp above or below the 200amp breaker? Thanks much.
If you have the spaces in the outdoor main breaker panel, absolutely install it there. The FS140 is outdoor rated, so you can mount it on bottom or sides without issue.
@abrelectric the FS140 is a Type 1 SPD. Why did you choose to install it at the breaker panel rather than the smaller incoming main panel(I don't know the actual name of the box)
My OCD was saying, "don't put the surge protector so close to the transformer box that you block it's opener catch." 😂The closing shot shows that you didn't.
I haven't read the instructions on this unit yet, but one thing I like is that it has 4 wires. So, if your box is not the bonded box, you can connect to both the neutral and ground busses. Many surge suppressors only have the 2 hots and neutral. I think those are rated as Type 1, but are also rated to be connected as a Type 2 to the breakers.
Question: The Home Depot page for this unit has a picture of it being installed at the bottom of the breaker box. What would be the recommended procedure to have its lights visible once you put the cover back on. Would you drill holes in the box's cover over the lights? I've seen that before and the inspector passed it, but is there a better way? I did see the video on the flush mount plate, but I mean is there a better way if the unit is placed in the box?
Technical video critique: The music during the intro vs. your speaking, the volume level is DRASTICALLY different.
Where do you install it if you also have a generator interlock & breaker vying for that first slot?
Get it as close as you can. There is a slight decrease in performance, but it's not a huge hit overall. Having it in 2d position is still better than not having it at all.
Nice video! is there really a big difference between the FS140 and the Eaton Ultra to make it worth the change??
Up to you. Difference is 5 years vs 10 years warranty and surge amps (108K vs 140K).
@@abrelectric well... not an easy one, because a I live in Mexico and I don´t think any manufacturar will honor this kind of warranty here. Also the power supply quality is pretty crappy. Hardware vs hardware only using the surge amps seems like an only 30% increase for more than twice the cost. But I would love to know if there is something else beside the surge amps that makes de FS140 a better protection. Seems that I need to justify initial cost difference to myself...
@@cmijares79 the other way to go is go with cheaper SPDs, treating them as disposable.
@@abrelectric this will be for the main switch. Already have planned for plug on ones in the subpanels. Is for a new home construction. Still have some time to decide but most probably will be the Siemens. Thanks!
Eaton Ultra has a lifetime warranty (original purchaser only) $75k equipement coverage, it is what I had installed because the FS140 was out of stock. However, if you can get the FS140, do it -- it has an audible alarm. Otherwise it's up to chance that you notice the lights on the unit has changed to detect the unit gave its life for a surge.
question-actually 2.. 1-is it proper to drive a ground rod at device if spd installed on an ac condenser 2- can two surge/voltage protection devices be installed on one unit-thank you
If the power to the AC condenser has a proper equipment ground, a ground rod would be unnecessary.
You can install 2 SPDs on a single unit.
I actually do have a question. When I had mine installed, I had the electrician put the double pole breaker at the top of the box. Not sure it actually matters but I was thinking it should be as close to the mains as possible. Any thoughts?
Probably blasphemous, but I don't think it matters. My starting point will be the manufacturer's instructions: install it the way they recommend to get their UL listing for performance. Everything else is opinion.
He didnt follow instructions on this install. So for a master electrician not good especially with a box that easy to move breakers
@@anthonyguess5528 read the instructions. I quoted them verbatim for you on another comment.
If an electric surge (from lightning or a short circuit) travel the shortest route to ground to dissipate it's energy; what can the FS140 (or any other) protect? ... installed after the Main Breaker, a 20A-2P breaker, and a at the bottom of the bus?
I have a pool sub-panel fed underground 60ft from the main panel, lightning stroked the ground nearby, damaging the breaker feeding the sub-panel, the pool automatic control unit and the variable speed pump. We had a surge protector on the main service that did not see the surge.
I am planning to install a 40A-2P GFI breaker on the main panel for the feeder and a FSxxx surge protector and maybe another GFI main breaker (50 or 60A 2P as a disconnect) in the sub-panel. The FSxxx will take most of the energy to ground and the GFI breakers protect the equipment. Right? and does it meet code?
Also, I have a solar system so I have my main breaker panel and I have a protected load panel, which one should I install it on?
If you have space, both. First, at least, the main panel, then the generator panel.
Instructions say's the breakers should be at or near the service.
Have question, on your 2 main legs coming into your 200 amp shut off you have a black semi round objects with looks to be white and blue wires coming out of them and going somewhere. Can you explain what they are and if for emp, where can I purchase them. Thank you.
Those are current transformers for my solar control panel (Enphase).
What are those clamps on the mains with blue(?) and white wires coming off of them?
Current transformers (CTs) for the solar panels
Just thinking... if I drill a 3/4" hole in the side of the CB box adjacent to the CB I'm going to use, wouldn't that make a cleaner install? Shorter wires, no loop, no wire bending. Just a thought.
Absolutely a good thought, especially if you have a surface-mounted panel
Setious question. Instructions say install breaker close to main. Why is yours at the bottom of the box?
To quote the instructions: "Use a breaker position that is close to the SPD and the panel's neutral and ground".
Mounting it near the main breaker is not a manufacturer requirement.
What do you do if you do not have any open breaker spots on your panel?
Depending on the panel, you can add tandems ("skinnies") to create the space.
Does it have to be alone on a 240V 20A circuit or can you piggyback it?
Quick question. My Siemens main panel is full with 240v 2 pole breakers and will not accept an external SPD like this because there is no space for another breaker. It won't even accommodate a breaker replacement like the Siemens QSA2020SPD, there are no single pole breakers to replace. Are there any options for providing Surge Protection on the main panel?
If not I can protect sub panels easily enough but will leave my EV outlet unprotected which is fed from the main panel. Are there any type 3 surge protectors for 6-50 outlets? I can find plenty for 14-50 outlets but don't want to replace my EVSE.
Check the manufacturer specs on the EV charger. Many like Tesla's TWC have surge protection built in.
You could do a Type 1 SPD at your main breaker, that should be installed by a licensed electrician. Type 1 doesn't require its own breaker.
@@abrelectric Thanks. The electrician's suggestion for protecting the main panel was to replace the panel with one with more slots for breakers. That sounded expensive vs $200 for two breaker style SPD's on my secondary panels. I'll ask when he comes back to install the SPD for our HVAC unit. Would installing a type 1 SPD require the panel to be brought up to current electrical codes? Our panel doesn't have a master disconnect as it pre-dates when that became a requirement.
@JeanPierreWhite that will depend on the local codes. Sometimes, it seems like upselling. Installing a type 1 spd should not mandate a panel upgrade by itself.
i thought it was design to be installed inside the house not outside...i live in florida, very humid here...should be an issue doingte install on the main panel outside?
Per the manufacturer, it is rated for outdoor, wet locations
As I went to install the fspd 140, it has 7 wires which the wiring shows 4 connections. It appears to have an audio built in alarm but doesn’t Light up. The instructions do not show how to or where to connect the 3 small diameter wires. I have searched all manuals for fspd 140 and no info on the additional 3 small diameter wires. Any advice
Cap the 3 smaller wires. They are for a relay.
dont they want it connected at the top breaker positions- close to mains?
Hi sir, excuse my question, I notice that an ENPHASE solar system is installed in your electrical panel, and the arrow of the consumption CTs in L1 and L2 are pointing towards the meter according to what I could see in the video and not towards the load (Main breaker) as explained in the ENPHASE training videos. The ENVOY is probably having measurement problems for that reason. In case my observation is not correct, please ignore my comment and excuse my bad English.
Can neutral and ground be on the same screw point?
No. You can double up on your ground wires (if they're the same size and material) under one terminal. You can confirm this by looking at the panel sticker on the inside of panel door (typically).
How would one find a qualified electrician on the emp product device?
I like to watch a pro working and mentoring. A lot of crafts people just as soon let you make horrible mistakes and then act arrogant above the little people. Anyway question? Is there a way to turn off the audible ? Even though its not working that beep would be very annoying to the neighbors and/or my wife.
There's not a way. Pretty makes you address the problem:)
Is this model using MOV TP's? If not they blow up on the first surge 2nd surge have no protection.
My house has two 200 amp panels mounted side-by-side (it is a big old house), and another 100 amp sub-feed panel in a detached shop. Oh, and it also has a solar array on the roof with it's own sub-sub-feed panel. So will one FS140 serve the whole house? If not, how many should I install, and where?
1 in each main panel. Do you have space in each panel to add a 2 pole 20a breaker?
@@abrelectric Yes. There are empty slots in both panels. What the sub-feed panels?
@so88113 subpanels won't need SPDs if the mains are covered
@@abrelectric Thank you for the information.
what is the part number for the yellow service barrier caps?
For Square D, 150A + PKSB1HA.
I am not an electrician but your information was easy to follow and I think it helped me tie some recent burned out equipment together in a single related event.
I arrived home from a trip to find my gate controller had burned out. I also realized my landscape light transformer was not working. A few days later a gate alarm went off and the power company was changing out my meter because it wasn't reading . ??? Could thesw three incidents be related . I assume that everyone 200 amp panel requires a surge protector? Is there a single solution for the green transformer box in thr yard? Thanks
It's possible that the 3 events are related. Are you talking about the utility company's transformer box or the lighting transformer?
Thanks for the question and please subscribe to the channel.
Even in a warm climate, would want then pannel inside
I've seen a few that way. My concern is bring able to see the indicator lights or hear the audible alrms
So cal EC here. I love to use SPD breakers instead.
Definitely loads easier to install. I use those to meet 2020 requirements when the client doesn't have any concerns about surges.
@@abrelectric yea same. question for you what CRM software do you like to use or recommend? i use HCP
@@bestshot300 I don't. Super OG, follow-up, get referrals and reviews.
good fellow, you said there is an alarm. Can this be silenced afterwards?
That is a great question. I don't know. I'll review the instructions
According to the instructions, if you have 2 green lights with the alarm you're supposed to check the neutral to ground bond. In any other situation, you're supposed to replace the unit. Sounds like you have to turn the breaker off to make the alarm stop sounding
Exactly, throw the breaker if the alarm is going. And then replace the unit
have 2 200 amp breaker boxes in garage. Need a siemens f140 for each panel?
Yes, sir
I'm from MA originally and FL now, I am not an electrician, more of a dumb child really, but I've never seen breaker box outside. Is this typical in other parts of the country? when it storms and your power goes out you need to check the breaker so you have to go outside in the rain or snow or whatever to check it? why not put it in your garage, basement, closet, or anywhere else INside?
If the wires between the SPD and the connection to the panel buses are supposed to be as short and straight as possible and also as close to the main breaker as possible, the only way to do that would be to mount the SPD horizontally and run the wires through the side of the panel and straight into the breaker. Is it against the NEC to use side access for a surface mounted panel in an outdoors location? It seems that a gasket/o-ring would make the installation water tight. In the past I mounted several of the EATON SPD devices directly into the sides of the panels. I ask this because my panel already has a number of things below it so I would have to to use the plastic flex conduit to snake around the other devices below the panel. With a large panel and the SPD a foot or so below the panel, the SPD would start to be a long distance from the incoming power with the potential power surge. I estimate that distance to be about 5 feet and that seems awful long.
I love how you put the photo on the end for your your spectrum and OCD folks... but then only used one Tapcon. *Evil Laugh*
You saw that, did you?
:)
Aren't you going to test it to make sure it works?
Beyond turning on the breaker, how would you test it?
Not sure why, but it appears this item is discontinued. Not saying you cannot find one but visited some major suppliers and comes up discontinued.
That's the 2nd time I've heard that on this page. However, talking to my Siemens distributor, they're not seeing any shortage or cut off.
I've got 'em if you want one :)
Is a Flush Mount Kit required if installing on Drywall? If so is there an alternative to using the Flush Mount Kit? It seems like a waist of money to me.
No, you can surface-mount the unit, and use 3/4" flexible conduit to get into the panel. You'll have a little drywall cutting to get the conduit into a KO.
Epitome of "Do as I say, not as I do" lol
The struggle is real...or I've got a bad case of "human" :) Thanks for watching
@@abrelectric Hey no judgment here. I do the same thing in my profession
SO with the 140, the breaker does not need to be at the top?
No.
Here's the instructions: firstsurge-installation-guide-lp-1414.pdf
@@abrelectric thanks. I saw where it is discontinued, do you know what is replacing it?
@@ejcsds where did you see that? I hadn't heard that the FS140 was being discontinued
@@abrelectric I believe it was on Supply House.
@@ejcsds What we need to find-out is, was this product discontinued by the distributor due to low sales or was it discontinued by Siemens? Amazon is still selling them, so I would lean more towards the former. I'll actually contact Supply House and ask that question.
I really hate this new thing of putting breaker boxes outside. I think it's a bad idea for many reasons.
A lot of people hate it. But when you relocate a panel somewhere else in the house, you trigger all of the new code requirements and it's a much larger project.
Your audio is very low and requires the highest setting to hear you, except for when your commercial comes on and blows the speakers out!!!
How come none of these surge protectors have test buttons?
That is a great question! There has to be a way to see if the spd is functional or if it's weakening with exposure to various spikes, etc.
I have been looking into testers that might actually do that.
@@abrelectric to the best of my knowledge, you can't actually "test" MOV-based surge protectors at all. This is just part of the reason why we NEVER encourage any customers to use MOV-based surge protectors at the device level in their homes. You are always SO much better to go with a series-mode, non-sacrificial, inductance-based surge protector (Brickwall, ZeroSurge, SurgeX, etc.) as they literally do everything better. I'm not sure if those types of devices are available for whole-house surge protection or not? Does anyone know?
I am really confused. How does the surge protector actually work if the main power doesn't travel through the circuit breaker before entering the panel?
John, are you talking about the location of the surge protector relative to the main breaker?
@@abrelectric No what I mean is if the current doesn't pass directly through the surge protector and then feed the rest of the breakers how does it actually protect everything fed off the panel? If we get a surge and it trips that breaker the rest of the panel is still live and vulnerable correct? I just dont understand how it works to protect your stuff if the surge protector can't trip and cut the power supply. Just like when you have a plug in surge protector behind your tv or computer.
I have been watching your videos. I am about to install a whole home surge protector because I have two brand new carrier modulating systems I want to protect. They want two grand per system for surge protectors on the units themselves. I think a whole home system will be cheaper and protect the whole house instead of the two furnaces and condensers. But It doesn't make sense to me that the power can still run through the panel if the surge protector trips. I am trying to understand how it even works if it's not protecting all the breakers.
@@johnyoung4772 the surge protector does not trip like a breaker. Depending on the brand, it sacrifices itself to absorb a large surge or spike coming into your house via your wiring to protect appliances and equipment.
James I know how to wire a panel. I am no electrician but I used to help a master electrician quite often on side jobs and learned the trade. So I am very comfortable installing this myself. I am just puzzled on what's the point of a surge protector if its not protecting the panel. I may have that wrong. I guess I assumed the main feed would be wired to the surge protector and then from the surge protector to the panel. So that any surge would get eaten up by the surge protector before it had an opportunity to get to any breakers. I guess I am missing the point of how the surge protector actually works in this case. The surge protectors I have throughout my house trip and kills the power to my devices. I don't see how this one that you wire into the panel could do that. I have only seen one of my surge protectors trip once. I am sure it saved my computer system. Because of the way this FS140 is wired I don't understand how it could protect the entire panel. I would think you would at least want it to be at the top of the panel so its the first breaker the power hits. would there be some truth to that?
Will a two pole 40 work?
It'll work, but it's not what the manufacturer asks for.
So, potentially voiding your warranty
I thought he said it needed to be as close and as short wired as possible🤔... so, why did he put it a mile away?
Am I missing something?
Nope. Manufacturer doesn't say that.
Instructions say to keep the wires straight and as close as possible to the supply breaker.
@@abrelectric SPDs should be as close as possible to the main. Every inch away reduces the effectiveness of the SPD. most vendors will tell you that 18" or less is recommended. They should be applied in a cascading fashion to all subpanels.
You are a master electrician and your main box is outside with the elements ? Shouldn’t that be indoors ?
It's a nema 3R panel, rated for outdoors. Works great 👍
@@abrelectric ya, I would never have anything outdoors, here in WA state it rains a lot / I have an outdoor rated hottub box and that shows rust inside too overtime, hahaha plus someone could mess with your box…
@@rompstar I had the same issue doing electrical in Southern California near the beach: the salt air is a monster!
My fuse box is built into the wall. Can't I just wire this to the power coming out of my meter to the panel? Looks like it would be a 5 min job.
Theoretically, with a type 1 SPD you can - they don't require a breaker. As a lesser of evils, you can install it inside of the breaker box. At least with the Siemens, you would have an audible alarm.
What kind of material is the panel flush-mounted into?
@@abrelectric drywall
@@wd8557 bite the bullet: cut the drywall and surface mount your type 2 unit
@@abrelectric I'll take your advise and do just so. 90% of the panel is hidden by a slot machine anyways. I'll still have to hook it up to incoming however I don't believe I have any space. Thanks
@@wd8557 Be safe
as you point out the FS 140 like the Eaton need to be installed as close to the main as possible. The further away they are from the input power leads the worse they work. When you talk about the quality of the FS 140 as opposed to the Eaton did you open them both up or are you basing that comment based on how much you like the color of the plastic box the FS 140 is in?
Absolutely. All master electricians make quality judgment calls based on packaging.
😉
Beyond that, it's the specs for sure.
Is the bus bar where you can put both neutral and ground on the same bus bar (no separate ground bus bar or separate neutral bus bar)?
In the main panel, with the main breaker, yes. Otherwise, the neutral and ground wires would be landed on separate bus bars in a sub panel.