I've run some encounters like this, to the point that it's become a bit of a trademark to start a new campaign with one! One campaign started with the 1st level party in a cell in a dungeon. A large construct (based on a 3e Cadaver Collector) was trundling through the dungeon, looking to dispose of them. Fortunately, a party of small/medium adventurers were MUCH better suited to dungeon corridors than a giant construct laden with cadavers. One melee combatant got cocky and went down to its paralyzing gas attack, but the party had enough members to distract the Collector long enough to pull their comrade to safety. Determining that "hit it until it dies" wasn't an option, the party fled through the dungeon slamming the reinforced metal doors behind them. The Collector was forced to waste valuable actions smashing down doors, *then* crawling prone through the narrow doorways in pursuit. The party also took advantage of a feature this particular construct had- an array of glass camera lenses on the "head" granting it 360-degree vision. Each lens was small with a correspondingly high AC, but they were easy to shoot out with arrows and Eldritch Blasts while the Collector was prone, slowly wriggling through a narrow doorway. By the time the Collector reached a room large enough for it to properly maneuver, it was completely blind in about a 90-degree arc in front of it. The party didn't bring it down, but everyone escaped with no lasting injuries and the Collector was irreparably damaged in the process. I ended up awarding 2/3xp for "defeating" the thing, which was more than enough to level everyone up. The damaged Collector was still pursuing them when the campaign was cut short, a few real-world months and in-universe weeks later.
This is EPIC!! Would you tell your players the objective and restrictions straight off the bat, or have them attempt to figure them out throughout the combat??
I would let them research the pit fiend ahead of time, and tell them the rules for the "harvest" mechanic. I think they would have fun making a plan to achieve it
The biggest thing would be knowledge beforehand... like the group finding a note from the last person that tried the ritual but knew they weren't strong enough to try and harvest the bone because they were alone and didn't have a wide enough skill set or number of bodies to actually prevent themselves from dying in the attempt.
I remember throwing a bulette at my then level 2ish party with a lvl 14 illusion wizard by their side. The party survived with only one player going down
Depending on their level and what classes you could through really high level bad guys at the party. I threw a Balor at a level 10 party who thought some of the stuff I cooked up was over leveled and I was stacking the deck too much in my favor. They mopped the floor with the thing in 2 rounds and I explained how CR worked.
@@ZipperonDisney I think it depends on how powerfully built the characters are, what magic items they have, and how smart the players are in regards to that kind of strategy
Very achievable at low lvs with smart players. The biggest concern his how much dmg the pit fiend can deal if it hits. As long as they have enough hp to survive 1 turn each, they are golden
Matt Mercer did this in Critical Role, but he didn't really restrict the monster. The team had to get an Ancient White Dragon to use its breath attack on a piece of metal so they could use this new infused metal in a special weapon. The team had absolutely no hope of even scratching this thing, so, they had to trick it. Really, the only restriction Matt put on the dragon was by making it pretty dumb, and having it play into the team's plan almost perfectly. Which, surprisingly, makes sense since white dragons are the least intelligent out of the chromatic dragons. I won't spoil it more than that, though, since this encounter was fucking hilarious, in both execution and outcome. It's mid campaign 2, if anyone is curious.
Hmm... I'm not entirely sure about the level, but you could potentially make it like a puzzle that could be done at any level... by including research about the devil, its current state and any active bargains it may have... this could be done as low as level 1 if you focus more on puzzles and diplomacy rather than an actual fight. As far as combat goes though... I'd probably say pit fiend CR-2, -3 if they have access to tailored anti-demon gear and your group habitually minmaxes.
Or have the party fight the big bad early on in the story, lose, but rather than die they’re all taken prisoner and that’s how the story starts. Or their all killed and brought back to a life by a god or something
I love doing this with certain groups, because they get creative. And it makes for a great game and story. Other groups will try and fight it head on and wonder why they tpked even after I straight up told them it was a death sentence. Or instead of trying to find a way to achieve the objective, they complain its to hard. Moral of it, know your players, throwing high cr monsters only works for some groups
The more I play AD&D 1E the more things like balance encounters sound like snake oil bullshit Fuck the story, return to random tables Your PCs might die but rolling up a new one just takes a few minutes
This is intriguing. I'll have to back pocket this one, thanks!
Excellent! Let me know if you ever get to use it!
Well I'll be, my campaign happens to have a trapped pit feind in it already!
What did you do?
I've run some encounters like this, to the point that it's become a bit of a trademark to start a new campaign with one!
One campaign started with the 1st level party in a cell in a dungeon. A large construct (based on a 3e Cadaver Collector) was trundling through the dungeon, looking to dispose of them.
Fortunately, a party of small/medium adventurers were MUCH better suited to dungeon corridors than a giant construct laden with cadavers. One melee combatant got cocky and went down to its paralyzing gas attack, but the party had enough members to distract the Collector long enough to pull their comrade to safety.
Determining that "hit it until it dies" wasn't an option, the party fled through the dungeon slamming the reinforced metal doors behind them. The Collector was forced to waste valuable actions smashing down doors, *then* crawling prone through the narrow doorways in pursuit.
The party also took advantage of a feature this particular construct had- an array of glass camera lenses on the "head" granting it 360-degree vision. Each lens was small with a correspondingly high AC, but they were easy to shoot out with arrows and Eldritch Blasts while the Collector was prone, slowly wriggling through a narrow doorway. By the time the Collector reached a room large enough for it to properly maneuver, it was completely blind in about a 90-degree arc in front of it.
The party didn't bring it down, but everyone escaped with no lasting injuries and the Collector was irreparably damaged in the process. I ended up awarding 2/3xp for "defeating" the thing, which was more than enough to level everyone up. The damaged Collector was still pursuing them when the campaign was cut short, a few real-world months and in-universe weeks later.
This is EPIC!! Would you tell your players the objective and restrictions straight off the bat, or have them attempt to figure them out throughout the combat??
I would let them research the pit fiend ahead of time, and tell them the rules for the "harvest" mechanic. I think they would have fun making a plan to achieve it
The biggest thing would be knowledge beforehand... like the group finding a note from the last person that tried the ritual but knew they weren't strong enough to try and harvest the bone because they were alone and didn't have a wide enough skill set or number of bodies to actually prevent themselves from dying in the attempt.
Now this is intuitive
I remember throwing a bulette at my then level 2ish party with a lvl 14 illusion wizard by their side. The party survived with only one player going down
Depending on their level and what classes you could through really high level bad guys at the party. I threw a Balor at a level 10 party who thought some of the stuff I cooked up was over leveled and I was stacking the deck too much in my favor. They mopped the floor with the thing in 2 rounds and I explained how CR worked.
My dm did this with Tiamat we just needed to survive like 5 rounds
I like that idea too!
I love this!
I want to hear about you stealing it 😁
Love this. I would also love to get good at the process of touching on the points that show up on the index cards in these shorts.
I mean, I do have in-depth, full length vids 😉
Cool
I would guess a party of 5 would need to be level 10-12.
I was thinking 9th or 10th if they had time to plan
@@ZipperonDisney I think it depends on how powerfully built the characters are, what magic items they have, and how smart the players are in regards to that kind of strategy
Very achievable at low lvs with smart players. The biggest concern his how much dmg the pit fiend can deal if it hits. As long as they have enough hp to survive 1 turn each, they are golden
By God, this is brilliant
Matt Mercer did this in Critical Role, but he didn't really restrict the monster.
The team had to get an Ancient White Dragon to use its breath attack on a piece of metal so they could use this new infused metal in a special weapon. The team had absolutely no hope of even scratching this thing, so, they had to trick it.
Really, the only restriction Matt put on the dragon was by making it pretty dumb, and having it play into the team's plan almost perfectly. Which, surprisingly, makes sense since white dragons are the least intelligent out of the chromatic dragons.
I won't spoil it more than that, though, since this encounter was fucking hilarious, in both execution and outcome. It's mid campaign 2, if anyone is curious.
i was at a con and there was a DnD pannel but i didn't know a lot about it but if i go next year i really wanna see it!
What level do you think the characters would need to be to survive?
Hmm... I'm not entirely sure about the level, but you could potentially make it like a puzzle that could be done at any level... by including research about the devil, its current state and any active bargains it may have... this could be done as low as level 1 if you focus more on puzzles and diplomacy rather than an actual fight. As far as combat goes though... I'd probably say pit fiend CR-2, -3 if they have access to tailored anti-demon gear and your group habitually minmaxes.
Ideas!! Ty
Sure thing!
Or have the party fight the big bad early on in the story, lose, but rather than die they’re all taken prisoner and that’s how the story starts. Or their all killed and brought back to a life by a god or something
I use the pit devil miniature for a pit fiend in d and d as well
I love doing this with certain groups, because they get creative. And it makes for a great game and story.
Other groups will try and fight it head on and wonder why they tpked even after I straight up told them it was a death sentence. Or instead of trying to find a way to achieve the objective, they complain its to hard.
Moral of it, know your players, throwing high cr monsters only works for some groups
My level 7 party won’t beat an adult blue dragon that easily…
2 rounds of combat later
Well…. Huh… maybe that crossbow *is* a bit too powerful
They should add that to stranger things
What would be able to even put it there?
New to dnd just casually watch CZcamsrs and stuff what is a tpk?
Total Party Kill
@@ZipperonDisney thanks for clearing that up
I’m back now I have a treat for y-Who dare cut off on your horns
Ooh. Assuming XP, what would you award for completing this encounter?
The more I play AD&D 1E the more things like balance encounters sound like snake oil bullshit
Fuck the story, return to random tables
Your PCs might die but rolling up a new one just takes a few minutes
D&D is mostly just fantasy wargaming.