Viewer to August-Playing Off-Meta Is Basically THROWING Games/High Pickrate /w Subpar Winrate Can=OP
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- čas přidán 5. 08. 2024
- 0:00 - Viewer to August - Playing Off-Meta Champs Is Basically THROWING Games
5:34 - August believes Champ Pool is Diverse, BUT... (AMUMU, BRIAR)
6:10 - August Argues High Pick Rate /w Subpar Winrate Can = OP (KAI'SA, IVERN)
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If you’re lower than Master, get off stat websites and stop caring about meta picks. Play whatever you feel like.
Facts most people below masters don't even know how to play the first 6 waves correctly anyway.
Meta champions and counter picks are only effective when BOTH players are using the best strategy. Below masters nobody is playing the game optimally anyway. So those stats for the most part don't matter.
Playing the game correctly on a bad champion > playing the game incorrectly on a good champion.
I mostly agree, though it does suck that it will be held against you. Better never lose or it's your fault. Also always the person losing just as hard but on a meta pick typing.
I mean yeah but this applies to everyone, not just below masters. People should play what they enjoy not play something they don't enjoy but are doing it because that champ is meta. Across all servers there are plenty of 1tricks for just about every niche champ out there and they reach high GM/challenger. Anyone can get to high elo with any champ it just depends on how focused and driven you are. Playing more "high in the meta" picks "can" get you there faster but it depends if you enjoy those champs. For example caitlyn has been meta for a bit now and I dislike playing her and I don't find her fun so I don't lock her in. I play Jinx and Zeri, not because Jinx is meta but because I enjoy the champ.
I'd say stats are useful for runes (for newer players) and counterpicks. But yeah I haven't noticed winrates mattering a lot up to my peak, unless something is turbo broken.
@@MattHatter360 Definitely not counterpicks. Counterpicks don’t matter until people master the basics of game and that won’t happen for a long time. Mastery trumps counterpicking for 99% of players.
For runes and items, yeah it’s fine to copy it but learning item and rune theory to develop your own pages and item sets is much better in the long run. Not every stat is right and the items you see only work on average. Your game, matchup, team, playstyle, etc. might call for something else.
August said this in an another video but I guess I believe in it much more strongly, a champion should do something unique. IMO all champions should be viable (competitively) because they should all have a time and a place regardless of their current balance/numbers.
GOOD EXAMPLES:
Poppy - she’s almost always a viable pick, why? Because regardless of her actual numbers her design is hard anti-dashes.
Blitzcrank - His hook, need I say more?
Malphite - Huge anti-ad and his ult
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There are other examples but they’re the ones where their numbers were nerfed so hard since they had powerful unique effects, twisted fate before his recent buffs but I think twisted fate now would be a great example.
I guess my point is, if Riot just said no more balancing forever would there be meta shifts ever again and how many? A well designed game would still have a fluctuating meta. I think MtG would, I think Valorant would, StarCraft did, etc.
I don’t think league would or if it did it would be extremely low imo.
This is almost exactly how dota kept its pick diversity so high. Hard to have chars fall out of meta when they all specialize in something both useful and that no other char can replicate.
I dont think "5 viable champs in every role" or something is the correct way to put it.
It's more that pick/winrate outliers - the S-tier picks - feel like they are so far away than the A-tier picks.
And it feels like every patch, there are a few picks that just dominate.
Correct me if I am wrong, but it wasnt always this bad.
it always has been, and it has been worse before. Y'all really weren't around in the days of 96& pick/ban kassadin in season 3
@@aschneider8912 Kassadin was a singular outlier(and well, many champs were giga-OP on release and thus, permabanned). Thats pretty much it, though.
@@aschneider8912 No it used to be better in season 8.
You are wrong. It has always been this way, since there was any meta to speak of.
@@TheSorrowfulAngel this is just blatantly untrue. Season 2 worlds, midlane was anivia/karthus/ori/tf, bot was ezreal/graves/corki, season 3 it was zed/ahri/ori/fizz with corki/caitlyn bot, season 4 it was alistar top (100% presence), etc etc this shit goes on forever for every single season
Has there ever been a Nuzloccke type draft thought about for competitive play? Drafts in pro play can devolve into which team will get which champ and not the other, or even worse, the exact same comp played multiple times. Seeing professionals rule on their pocket picks is enjoyable, but seeing a player at the highest skill level pop off on your favorite off meta champ might increase player engagement. See Faker picking Riven mid in a competive tournament.
Has a "team-up" feature been thought of for casual and ranked match making? Getting a team that works well together in solo queue is quite difficult but finding just a single player you work well with is pretty common. Has a system been thought of where players that find they work well together can "lock in" in the post game lobby to queue up together in duo?
"Nuzlocke draft" I'm making some assumptions for what you mean, but I assume that's where once a champ is picked, it can't be picked for the rest of the match? In league its called fearless draft, and Riot is actually experimenting with it. LCKCL is fearless next spilt, there's current an EUW streamer fearless tournament going on rn (NNO cup, finals are soon)
If that's not what you meant then sorry, just my best guess
@@alext8060 that's right in the money. Thanks for the info.
Both are already there. There's fearless draft, and you can easily add someone and/or queue up with them from post-game lobby below GM elo. Have you literally never seen that?
I feel like the “high MMR where kaisa has 50% pickrate but 49% winrate” can also suggest she’s being first round drafted (if not first picked, she’s picked by opposite side) and exposed to counterpicks more frequently
What website is he using?
Shouldn't we look at the median not the average concerning pick rates... Because the meta can skew the average because people want to play whats strong. I think the viewer has a good point.
Hey remember when riot removed the non-adc botlaner and made him Darius but Ap? Rest in peace mordekaiser
Well, you have 160 champs and even if only half of them is viable, it's still 80 champs. And they're rotating too depending on the item buffs from season to season so that's not the biggest league problem.
They should fix matchmaking tho. Most games in gold-silver you just toss a coin and stomp/get stomped depending on the result. Winning Top doesn't matter if your mid dies 15 times in 20 minutes
So do you believe that the other team should lose because their top laner lost while have 2 other winning lanes and jg has advantage.
Do you believe the teams should not be able to turn the game around after making smart plays and take advantages all over the map.
Do you believe that a team game shouldn't require the team to do well?
Stop playing team games you aren't nearly mature enough for them play some solo games where winning or losing purely dependant on your own skill and you will be humbled extremely quickly once you realize you are not as good as you think you are.
@@chevoyingram9589 The main issue here is how they match 5 on role golds on a win streak against 5 silvers, 4 of whom have a loss streak, 3 autofilled, 2 first timing champs because of having a bad day, an 1 of whom just goes afk midgame
genuinely shocked that adc gets more diverse in higher mmr
You can spam Twitch in low elo and climb because of the nature of the champion. However, he has historically struggled in higher elos where teams don't let him flank or even let him out of laning phase. Because the idea of a marksman is that they are consistent DPS, you simply pick options that have the highest chance to deal the highest DPS given the team comp
i have sticked with pyke mid even after nerfs and the horrible state he was in after them removing duskblade and still almost peaked gm. just ignore the meta and play what you want and have fun with in 95% of elos it doesnt make a difference
lol he says the average pick rate is 3%, then says that there is “a lot of diversity” in every single role when they all have several characters at or above 7%. That’s insane considering there were probably about 10 champs at that pick rate, with the rest being likely 1% without me checking the numbers. That is not “very diverse” when there are 10ish champs on average that are commonly picked when there should be around 30 champs per role. That means roughly 30% of the champs are picked most of the time. The number just isn’t “5 champs that are viable” as the commenter said, it seems closer to 10, which should still be considered terrible.
So if high pick rate + subpar winrate can = op, does that mean that low pick rate + high winrate = not necesseraly op ?
Usually yes. For example a champ can have low pick rate and high winrate because they are an extremely good counter pick but just not that good on their own. Imo
yeah. there are channels on here that make videos about off-meta picks that hit high elo and some of them are absolutely easier to replicate than others (meaning they're safer, more consistent, and more likely to be "OP"). the less often you can replicate a pick's success (high-risk, situational, etc) the less likely it is to be perceived as "OP", but you'll always see players who can hit high rank playing weird shit
From what August has said it depends on the level of skill required to play the champ well enough to win. So like Garen for example if he had a 53% wr he would be viewed as too strong because players playing him don't have to perform very well to win. Compare that to a champ like cassiopeia or riven and it's much different. Billy bob can't just lock in those champs, mess up half their combos and perma climb. If those champs have a 50-53% wr then those champs are probably balanced even at that win rate. Idk if August would say exactly those winrates but you get the point.
I must say I was not expecting 3 different and valid explanations. There is also the possibility that one tricks of less popular champions inflate the winrate but that is somewhat disproven if I'm not mistaken.
I feel like what August is missing here is that 'what is playable' doesn't align with what the playerbase declares is acceptable. If you're a Renata support main then you just have to accept that you're going to get so many 'plz no renata' in champ select, or people dodging your games, or people flaming you solely because you picked an unpopular champion and ignoring any mistake they made. It's your fault you didn't pick a meta support, after all. If you play slightly meta-adjacent then frankly your experience is just going to be miserable... well, more miserable than your average game of league of legends.
I onetrick AD/on-hit Ahri toplane after experimenting with it during the Static Shiv LeBlanc situation. I have over 200 games on her from last season and tons of experience in basically every toplane matchup she has. I have a lot of experience on some other champions from previous phases, yet she gives me the highest winrate out of all of them right now and it's not close.
Even before the whole skin debacle I get my hovered champion banned in about 10-20% of my lobbies by a teammate that doesn't want me to play it. This is in Emerald, where practice with the role and champion (matchups) is significantly more important than meta. When I do get into a game on her I still notice tilted people clinging on to 'not having a real toplaner' as an excuse to soft int after they independently lose their matchups even if I myself or the team as a whole are ahead. This happens more than if I play other champions even on the same scoreboards.
League's problem isn't in viability so much as it is in percieved-viability. Usually that's way less severe of a problem and it only impacts choice diversity and meta discoverability. But because League is League, that percieved-viability issue is an unfortunate catalyst for their massive toxicity problem.
@@themorellonomicon2757damn bro your post makes me so sad, it’s true we’ve all seen it
pls give back hecarim toplane
Debs consider low masta high mmr :skull:
Form an argument as to why it's not
I find it funny that in ANY other circumstance August would focus on exclusively high elo, but now that low elo supports what would be positive for him and the company, now suddenly low elo matters.
Also the issue isnt that only 5 champions are ever playable in a role.
The issue is the current 5 selected "riot approved" champions for thst role for the patch are SO MUCH STRONGER than the other picks that other picks just feel inherently waaay waaay weaker.
Go look at one tricks for example. The #1 karthus jungle onetrick peaked rank 33 challenger because karthus was strong. After the nerfs his rank had TAAAAAAANK to low masters.
i dont play dota, but how come pro players in league have such limited pools. every excuse ive ever heard is just a blatant lie. dota 2 pros have no issue picking almost anything in the game. sure there's meta stuff but dota 2 pro players actually care about draft and they use the majority of the character pool so why is league so shit?
It seems like a base design problem to me. Having chars designed to fit a class and have to fit the mold of said class limits design on chars. They don't make chars to be extremely good at their niche then tune them after so a lot of chars just end up being worse picks than another in high elo(though recent patch dota isn't much better though granted the patch has more changes than several league seasons at once). Scaling,item and DMG diff is also there but idk how much that matters. too late to change the core of league without backlash.
@@kf532 League players deserve everything bad coming to them tho, that's for sure. They deserved China owning them
@@kf532 seems like their focus on balance is a lot different too. I wish I got into Dota before league tbh. I can understand the elitist mentality a little bit but league just seems so bland picking a class compared to a character with a unique skill set.
@@dirky1185 league works best as its casual focus and easier to understand nature helps keep a higher player base. If one enchanter gets banned just pick another,ect. It starts falling apart a little at the pro level though. Both games are suffering badly from feature creep rn though even dota is not balanced current patch due to this but they also shipped out a patch equivalent to giving every character a mini rune page so it was kinda expected.
@@kf532 I'm sure icefrog will eventually find a way to make everyone playable though like he has in the past.
Quick fix, give us 2 bans instead of 1. Please stop reöeasing new champions, we got 170 and we cant make it more diverse with more champions but in balancing or updating champ designs. We can ban the borderline broken champions like garen and skarner and booom you got diversity because the meta cant be picked anymore.
People don't understand that the champs are meta cause the 1% make them meta and not vice versa.
If you're gold, you can pick the best champ in the meta but you will still lose to an Emerald Bard jungle 😂
There is another big piece of information people don't realize here:
What is meta isn't always because it's "the best champion or pick in said lane". Meta in proplay and high elo is also very heavily considerable of "what is the best counterpick to what my enemy chooses to play"
Hence why Karthus, something you almost never see in botlane was the top 5 botlane champions for high elo like two patches ago, because Kogmaw was the #1 ADC (Karthus is a Kogmaw counter).
What becomes meta is purely based off of "who is the strongest in this role, or which team comp is overall stronger, and what counters are the strongest against what is being chosen". Hence why a champion could theoretically be the strongest, but if they don't synergize with their team they might not be a meta pick outside of solo queue because they lack synergy.
Overwatch was a big showcase of how team comps also matter, because the meta was shifting between what team compositions worked better than others.
It's just low Elo players look at Proplay or high elo and take it as if it's the Bible without understanding the reasonings behind why. They are all basically sheep following what they see because they don't understand the fine details like higher elo players do (hence why they are low Elo in the first place).
It's also why Low Elo players can absolutely int "meta" champs against something as "bad" as Yuumi jungle. Because at Low Elo champion pick matters a lot less than mechanical skill, game knowledge, and macro.
its a really shit mindset from riot games. its very much possible to have all champions viable, but only at the highest lvl of play. u either balance around highest lvl of play and hava all champs viable, or u do it like riot does it. balance for the casuals and noobs because they are literally too bad to deal with the champion. there is counterplay. they are just too bad, and blame it on the champion.
for example look at dota2. in dotas biggest tournament, which is comparable to league of legends worlds tournament every single champion got picked at least once.
Wow another unjust comparison by this guy. Why would you use the last 30 days with multiple patches. Use the last patch, so cringe