Yes Most stadiums now have sport books It unbelievable the hypocrisy I think Pete Rose will eventually get in but it will be posthumously unfortunately & THAT is shameful
@@hawgslayers29 Joe Jackson was paid $5000 to throw that series. His performance was very good, but this is a guy who hit over .400 more than once. Whether he did his best or not is irrelevant; he took money from gamblers to lose on purpose.
Stephen Smith I agree with you 100% I never heard no one put it any better your let steroid users drug addicts back in the game and they forgive everyone but they won't forgive mr. Rose one of the greatest baseball players ever to play the game and I hope one day he does get inducted
Green Bay Packer legend Paul Hornig was caught betting on football..not only was he allowed to keep playing, he was a first ballot HOF inductee..didn't seem to ruin his team, the league, the game or the museum in Canton..
Baseball is the most pearl-clutching sport in American history. They took a decade longer than other major sports institute replay review. Teams like the Yankees still have a facial hair policy.. A FACIAL HAIR POLICY! MLB wants to act like it’s still directly after the 1919 “black sox” got caught throwing the series and they have to show that they won’t stand up for it. It’s been 104 years. Pete Rose has 4200+ hits! He could have murdered people after his playing career and he would still deserve a spot in Cooperstown. Also.. skip can go fuck himself. Dude has some of the worst takes of any sportscaster in this country.
Theres no denying how he earned his nickname, dude was one of the most competitive athletes ever. He couldn't cheat his way to 4256 hits, dude is legit. Put him in the damn HOF!
Sai B exactly. Put him in as a player not a manager. He is one of the most talented players ever he deserves in. He made bets as a manager not a player. How come PED users get in? Using PED is cheating, Rose didn't cheat for his stats. And I know this is another sport but OJ is in the NFL Hall of Fame. We all pretty much know he murdered 2 people. But he stays??
If you watched him over his entire career, especially toward the end, alot of that "Charlie Hustle was for show. I've seem him head diving into 2nd or 3rd base alot even when the throw wasn't going to those bases. Crowd loved it though.
@@haydencloud3619 OJ was acquitted so that means he was innocent. Plus he was voted in the HOF before the so called murders. And betting as a manager is worse than betting as a player. As a manager you can control the outcome of the game since you're the one making decisions. As a player you just control you.
@@hennylo68 “OJ was acquitted so that means he was innocent” Lmfao no.. it doesn’t. It means he was not found guilty of the charges against him.. The prosecution shot for the moon with first degree murder charges, which require proof of premeditation. Clark and Darden mounted one of the most horrific prosecutions of all time. Just because he was found not guilty of the charges against him does not mean he did not kill those people… anyone with half a brain knows he killed them.. and the only reason he was found not guilty was because Marcia Clark and Chris Darden went for gold with the charges. They also were absolutely dreadful at jury selection and Marcia Clark might be the most disillusioned prosecution lawyer I have ever seen in my life with how she expected African American jury members to come to a guilty verdict directly following the Rodney king incident. She might be the worst person at reading a room in the history of people.. and my god.. the absolute idiocy of Darden suggesting OJ try the glove on.. Anyone.. ANYONE with half a brain cell in OJ’s seat would make damn sure it looked like the glove didn’t fit. The only reason he was acquitted was because the prosecution was possibly the worst in US history.
@@haydencloud3619He was a player manager, but he was never going to make it a manager. I think the lifetime ban should mean until they due and after they become eligible to be reinstated. Joe Jackson and tigers should be eligible 100 years later, they can decide not to put them in based on their playing careers before the 1919 WS.
Pete rose did everything with his natural skill unlike the large percentage of athletes doing PEDs, and he can't get credit for what he achieved with raw talent. We forgive the ones who put their bodies in harm to hit the ball farther and throw faster...
Volkz337 Amen, brother! How the steroid criminals aren’t stoned when they are within a hundred yards of a baseball park is beyond me. They’ve tainted the statistical fabric of the game.
Joe Jackson was a great player in. his day and would have been in the Hall of Fame had he not been convicted for gambling. Rose did the same thing and that's the way it goes. Can't allowed him in..
@@HoboJoe1416 as bad as this sounds.. the home run battle between McGuire and Sosa followed by Bonds setting the all time record is what revived baseball. I wish It wouldn’t have taken PED’s to get there, but it’s true nonetheless. Baseball was dying, and the sudden spark of home run records kept it alive.
Pete Rose could have murdered a few people after he retired and still been a first ballot unanimous hall of fame’r. Baseball hierarchy is almost nothing but pearl-clutching purists who won’t be alive to see the 2040 season.
I am 55 years old, a Baseball (Mets) Fan since 1969, Rose was the Best Hitter I ever saw, but, a SOB of the field, he should be in the Baseball Hall of Fame as a Player. Scott :-)
I usually agree with Skip but in this case he’s totally out of his mind. Steven A Smith is 100% correct. It’s infuriating and maddening that Pete Rose isn’t in the HOF. I’ve met Pete and he’s a really cool guy and very gracious and generous.
Very well said Stephen A. I really admire his ability to find the central points of something with so much shit around it and illustrate what is most important. A rare gift.
Pete should be in the Hall as a BROADCASTER---MOST KNOWLDGEBLE, WITTY, AND ENTERTAINING ANALYST EVER...when he talks baseball, he breaks it down beautifully and he commands respect. He is revered by fellow panelists A-Rod and Frank Thomas, they really respect him when he talks X's and O's
Many say Michael Jordan was allegedly betting on basketball in the 90's. During his first retirement press conference he stated, "Five years down the road, if the urge comes back, if the Bulls will have me, if David Stern lets me back in the league, I may come back." Why would he say if David Stern will have him back? It sounds like he was forced out, and to save face he retired quietly. He was under investigation for gambling prior to his retirement. In fact, the day he retired the investigation stopped. Some give that as a reason he left basketball the first time. If Michael Jordan had bet on basketball like Pete Rose bet on baseball, than there is no reason Pete Rose is not in the hall of fame today...
It is a well known fact that he was told to retire to avoid a scandal. Not sure I can blame Stern if he told him lay low for two years to let the gambling not get out in the open.
With respect to the greats of the game, the Hall of Fame doesn't matter anymore. Rose shouldn't have gambled while still in the league obviously, but he didn't throw ballgames , and that makes a difference.
Pete Rose should absolutely be put in to the baseball hall of fame. What they (MLB) have put him through is a joke. They (MLB) should be a shame of themselves for banning him all of those years ago.
Harold Baines and Tim Raines made the HOF and they never were 2nd - 3rd best on their teams were they? Never were higher than top 10 at best I believe in MVP voting and not WS MVPs.
Stephen A. makes a great argument balancing the facts with fairness and historical context...and then Skip goes and argues points that Stephen A. didn't even dispute - trying to represent those facts as his rebuttal. Stephen A. wins running away.
"Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason why it was put up" - Kenesaw Mountain Landis...OK, it was GK Chesterton, but, if you understand the existential crisis that resulted in baseball gamblers being banned from the sport, you'll understand why Pete Rose can't be in the HOF.
zipadeed00dah There is a difference. Those banned by Landis and those previous were banned for throwing the games, therefore undermining the public trust in the games’ outcomes. None of Pete’s bets affected the outcome of games or were to throw games. Maybe you need a better understanding of that historical crisis?
As I watch MLB Network and see the sports betting odds scrolling across the bottom of the screen, see and hear the MLB broadcast personalities promoting fantasy sports betting on air, and see sports gambling companies as major sponsors of MLB; it's time to reinstate Pete Rose and "Shoeless" Joe Jackson and induct them into the Hall of Fame. If MLB is going to actively and blatantly encourage people to bet money on MLB games by promoting sports gambling in an invasive manner, what Pete and Joe did doesn't matter anymore.
Peter Luk I forgot that Pete threw an entire World Series for money, it’s been proven he bet on his team to win. But we’ll let all the dudes who used PED’s to allowed to be voted into the game
I agree with sas here, if their gonna give others a pass they should give Pete one for a lot of reasons. If they came down hard on everyone then I would be ok with Pete staying away but that isn’t the case
Pete Rose doesn't need the MLB HOF; the MLB HOF needs him. The MLB HOF is losing its luster with the above average players being inducted. Few actual greats any more. Nothing about Alan Trammell said HOF while playing. A couple of very good years but he was always in the baseball card common piles growing up. Lou Whitaker might get in soon? Another above average player common pile commando. Sure they played many years for the same team but too many non-great players are getting in. Sure Pete messed up but so is the HOF. It is other than a greatness vote. Dave Concepcion played 19 years for one team and was a great player on great teams; why is he not mentioned for HOF? Trammell in and Concepcion not in? The HOF is a joke!
Smith is saying some of the 1919 Black Sox are in the HOF. Absolutely not true. One of the greatest hitters in the history of the game was among that group. Joe Jackson had a career B.A. of .356; third highest career average all-time. He's STILL on the suspended list and will remain there forever. And we're at 97 years and counting. There were two White Sox players who were NOT involved in the gambling plot who are in the HOF; Ray Schalk and Eddie Collins. That must be who Smith is citing.
Did you read what I wrote above? None of the 8 indicted for gambling is in the HOF, but two Sox players from the 1919 team ARE in the HOF: Eddie Collins and Ray Schalk. Look it up.
Youre right and that says alot for Skip Bayless, too, because he didn't call him out on it. I don't think either one of them knows baseball very well, at least the history of it.
If you don't believe other athletes have not gambled on their sport, you're being willfully naive. The arguments against Rose are bogus and outdated. It's like holding Prohibition-era charges against breweries.
Pete Rose did his thing as a player, pre-gambling. I understand if you don't put Rose in the HOF as a manager, but he deserves to be there as a player.
Steven A. is wrong 8 of the 1919 "Black Sox" players were banned for LIFE to include Shoeless Joe Jackson who has a career .356 lifetime batting avg. (3rd highest ever) if you wont let the 3rd highest life time batting average in the HoF almost 100 years after the incident then Pete Rose cannot ever be let in.
Embarrassing. Rose is a scumbag, he accepted his punishment to avoid further investigation. Think about that, he took the ‘plea’ because he knew there was worse to come, he’s a coward and a corrupt cheat.
I think Stephen A is incorrect. Not only aren 't ANY of the players from the Black Sox scandal that were involved, eight of them, in the Hall of Fame, but some of the players that didn't even take money, but just knew about it and didnt alert the club, were also thrown out of baseball. Joe Jackson, who did take money, but if you look at his stats, he certainly didn't seem to throw the world series, also was thrown out. I really think that the only thing that has kept Pete Rose out of the HOF is his own arrogance.
Pete Rose is not in the hall because of his attitude and that should not keep him out of the building. Pete had a illness like many other humans including athletes. He brought allot to the game. I believe in my heart that if Bart Giamatti was still alive behind close doors he would regret that decision and would want Pete in the hall. He deserves to be in the hall.
Let's think for a moment for kids, today and tomorrow, who never saw him play, but see his stats. All time hit leader, 2nd in doubles, I know he's high in triples, too. Played all outfield positions and infield, except short. Most 200 hit seasons. 3 time world series champion. You think they're not gonna wonder why this man is NOT in the HOF? And they either look up the reason or an elder family member, friend or co worker tells them. Just curious about their reaction or thoughts.
The rule is clear and every ballplayer knows it. If you bet on baseball, you are banned for life! No exceptions. No second chances. What is there about that don't people understand?
People don’t understand that your actions have consequences. Pete Rose is being punished cause he opened Pandora’s box. MLB made an example out of him. Don’t let him in until he passes away.
Stephen A. was mentioning two members of the 1919 Chicago White Sox who are in the Hall of Fame: he must have been referring to Eddie Collins and Ray Schalk. Those guys though weren't among the 8 banned from baseball for throwing games.
And there is evidence based on play alone that Joe Jackson might not have thrown the games. Now he took money, though I believe he did return the money, so if he never threw games and returned the money, I think he deserves to be reinstated.
As much of a Rose fan as I am I'm torn because I kind of agree with Skip you cannot jeopardize the very game itself or baseball could end up just like horse racing with it's notorious race fixing. As a baseball fan if i thought games were being manipulated I would quit watching as well as a lot of other fans.
Numbers wise he should be in the hall of fame. Pete is his own enemy with what happened to him. Saling his autograph outside of Cooper's town and MLB offices reasons yes not in
Many years the HOF considers players who have been on ballots for years and they get in based on sympathy. Stop handing out sympathy awards and put in the greatest hitter ever.
I agree with Smith. The simple fact is that Rose did not do anything to affect the results of a single game in an unethical manner. Everyone who used performance-enhancing drugs did exactly that. Rose did not cheat, the others all did. That the others should be forgiven and he should not be is a moral travesty. This is not Black Sox because Rose never bet against his own team. The argument was made that Rose should be penalized because he affected how bookies calculated odds? I’m sorry, but it was not Rose’s responsibility to uphold the ethics of oddsmakers, and that that should outweigh upholding the ethics of the game itself is beyond asinine.
Skip your wrong on the one. Pete should be in the Hall of Fame. It;s been 30 years now and he has paid the price for his sins. Let it go and Put Charley Hustle in the Hall.
I know right?! Utter Bullshit! Pete Rose is 80 years old...LET HIM IN. He's the all time hits leader damnit so what he gambled on baseball. Willie mays AND yankees Icon Mickey mantle were both banned for life but they were reinstated. Now that's hypocrisy. Come on Manfred reinstate Pete Rose because so far your fucking up the national pastime by NOT letting in an all time great into cooperstown. You should be ashamed of yourself commissioner Manfred. You don't care about baseball history at all. You just care about "oh he's a gambler and a criminal. Well guess what?! Let it go forget the past and live in the Present day.
Lifelong Reds fan. I remember when Pete came up and replaced Don Blasingame in 1963 and followed his entire career. I loved him as a ballplayer. But he broke the one rule in baseball that can't be broken. Gambling very nearly destroyed the game a century ago. No rule in sports is more clear than the rule against gambling. I personally feel the same way about the cheaters who've been juiced. You don't deserve a second chance when your 'mistake' jeopardizes the credibility of the entire sport/business. I know I'm in a minority among Reds fans, but that's the way it is.
get the fuck over it. He was bored as a manager so he put some money on it. He never bet on them to lose. Sitting in that dugout when you were a player for 26 years is boring as fuck. He was a winner his whole life. he was just looking for a little competitive excitement. What he did never effected the outcome of a game. The entire steroid generation effected baseball history. Stop being dumb and brainwashed its fucking sickening how stupid you sound
I want the steroid boys out of baseball too. As for the rest of your juvenile comments, you're talking out your ass. You don't know if what he did affected the outcome of any game. And boredom is no excuse for violating the cardinal rule of baseball repeatedly.
If Rose belongs in the HOF, so does Joe Jackson. It's been a century since Jackson helped throw the 1919 World Series and he was a much better player than Rose. After that, where do you draw the line?
Pete rose should be in the hall of fame because of his numbers on the field baseball not letting Pete rose in the hall of fame is as stupid as the NCAA takeing away joe paternoster wins at penn state while he’s still alive then they give paterno all his wins back to him after he died that makes makes no sense to me at all
Sometimes I wonder had the black sox scandal never happened would the league have been as strict? They fined the guy a measly $50,000 ...Here's an idea...Fine him $100,000 and let him in the hall!
Thank you Stephen A. for summarizing my argument and pointing out the abject hypocrisy in baseball. Performance-enhancing drugs affected the statistics and the very game. Pete’s betting did not. Halt inductions for one year. Install Pete, Shoeless Joe, and any other worthy Black Sox (If they did it, Comiskey drove them to it). Until then, I doubt I’ll be back in a major league park. Pete’s treatment and the ‘94 Strike still leaves a sour taste.
I don't think it's relevant if Rose says he gambled, but never against the Reds. For years he maintained that he never gambled period, but eventually admitted to that. It looks like a slippery slope. Upholding the ban serves an important purpose. If they don't uphold the ban and eventually let him in, that sends a message to current players that they can do the same, be reprimanded for a period of time, but it'll ultimately amount to a slap on the wrist and no lasting punishment is worth worrying about.
*Betting on any sport that you participate in is reason to ban anyone...PERIOD...end of story....maintaining "'Credibility" is necessary for any sport.*
I don't know. He lied about betting for 15 years, finally "comes clean" but said he never bet against his own team. Who knows?And his bats were corked. That's like PED's for singles hitters.
Pete Rose should have his own FLOOR in the Hall of Fame!
heck yeah-4th floor #4256!
Hell, he can have his own building. Right next to the HOF, just not in it.
Exactly, well said
bakershan3825 You ‘re too young to even watch him
SuperPat88 you got it ! Great idea my favorite my old mans favorite
"Pete Rose must be banned from baseball for gambling! ... Our sponsor this our is Draft Kings..."
John Deming lol but the Astros can cheat and get away with it !! Wow smh
Yes Most stadiums now have sport books It unbelievable the hypocrisy I think Pete Rose will eventually get in but it will be posthumously unfortunately & THAT is shameful
The Baseball Hall of Fame will never be legitimate as long as Pete Rose and Joe Jackson are not in it.
Joe Jackson took money from gamblers to purposely lose. Pete Rose bet on his own team to win. These are not the same situation.
@@MrSprigg joe Jackson hit over .300 that series
@@hawgslayers29 So what? He was talented enough to do that even when he was deliberately not playing at his best. That makes what he did even worse.
@@MrSprigg you serious right now ? Nobody trying to throw a game is gonna hit .375 in a series . I promise you that
@@hawgslayers29 Joe Jackson was paid $5000 to throw that series. His performance was very good, but this is a guy who hit over .400 more than once. Whether he did his best or not is irrelevant; he took money from gamblers to lose on purpose.
Stephen Smith I agree with you 100% I never heard no one put it any better your let steroid users drug addicts back in the game and they forgive everyone but they won't forgive mr. Rose one of the greatest baseball players ever to play the game and I hope one day he does get inducted
tone tone yep
Criminal
Has any player from the Astro’s been penalized by MLB for cheating to gain advantages to help them out?
@@ticman1962 Nope and they were more guilty than the coach at the time
Right on Stephen A! 100%.
Green Bay Packer legend Paul Hornig was caught betting on football..not only was he allowed to keep playing, he was a first ballot HOF inductee..didn't seem to ruin his team, the league, the game or the museum in Canton..
And Alex Karras is also in the Hall of Fame now.
Baseball is the most pearl-clutching sport in American history. They took a decade longer than other major sports institute replay review. Teams like the Yankees still have a facial hair policy.. A FACIAL HAIR POLICY! MLB wants to act like it’s still directly after the 1919 “black sox” got caught throwing the series and they have to show that they won’t stand up for it. It’s been 104 years. Pete Rose has 4200+ hits! He could have murdered people after his playing career and he would still deserve a spot in Cooperstown.
Also.. skip can go fuck himself. Dude has some of the worst takes of any sportscaster in this country.
He also was caught betting the day of the Super Bowl too, as in he had been gambling the day of or night before the game even.
And that’s a different sport and different circumstances. Nice try though.
Reason 9595 why I hate Skip Bayless
caleb reichenbach he thinks Pete is the only person who did it, tons of famous coaches did as well. Still do, just don't get caught.
Pete Rose is a Hall of Famer.
OMG i cannot believe I agree with Stephen Smith!
Seriously weird... like kissing a first cousin weird... 😂🤣😂🤣
Tornado Of Souls me too he was right on
Yeah because he's showing support for a white man
Theres no denying how he earned his nickname, dude was one of the most competitive athletes ever. He couldn't cheat his way to 4256 hits, dude is legit. Put him in the damn HOF!
Sai B exactly. Put him in as a player not a manager. He is one of the most talented players ever he deserves in. He made bets as a manager not a player. How come PED users get in? Using PED is cheating, Rose didn't cheat for his stats. And I know this is another sport but OJ is in the NFL Hall of Fame. We all pretty much know he murdered 2 people. But he stays??
If you watched him over his entire career, especially toward the end, alot of that "Charlie Hustle was for show. I've seem him head diving into 2nd or 3rd base alot even when the throw wasn't going to those bases. Crowd loved it though.
@@haydencloud3619 OJ was acquitted so that means he was innocent. Plus he was voted in the HOF before the so called murders. And betting as a manager is worse than betting as a player. As a manager you can control the outcome of the game since you're the one making decisions. As a player you just control you.
@@hennylo68 “OJ was acquitted so that means he was innocent”
Lmfao no.. it doesn’t. It means he was not found guilty of the charges against him.. The prosecution shot for the moon with first degree murder charges, which require proof of premeditation.
Clark and Darden mounted one of the most horrific prosecutions of all time. Just because he was found not guilty of the charges against him does not mean he did not kill those people… anyone with half a brain knows he killed them.. and the only reason he was found not guilty was because Marcia Clark and Chris Darden went for gold with the charges. They also were absolutely dreadful at jury selection and Marcia Clark might be the most disillusioned prosecution lawyer I have ever seen in my life with how she expected African American jury members to come to a guilty verdict directly following the Rodney king incident. She might be the worst person at reading a room in the history of people.. and my god.. the absolute idiocy of Darden suggesting OJ try the glove on..
Anyone.. ANYONE with half a brain cell in OJ’s seat would make damn sure it looked like the glove didn’t fit.
The only reason he was acquitted was because the prosecution was possibly the worst in US history.
@@haydencloud3619He was a player manager, but he was never going to make it a manager. I think the lifetime ban should mean until they due and after they become eligible to be reinstated. Joe Jackson and tigers should be eligible 100 years later, they can decide not to put them in based on their playing careers before the 1919 WS.
True baseball fans hold Pete Rose in high regard despite the gambling
No we don’t.
Pete rose did everything with his natural skill unlike the large percentage of athletes doing PEDs, and he can't get credit for what he achieved with raw talent. We forgive the ones who put their bodies in harm to hit the ball farther and throw faster...
Volkz337 Amen, brother! How the steroid criminals aren’t stoned when they are within a hundred yards of a baseball park is beyond me. They’ve tainted the statistical fabric of the game.
Joe Jackson was a great player in. his day and would have been in the Hall of Fame had he not been convicted for gambling. Rose did the same thing and that's the way it goes. Can't allowed him in..
Yep, and he was fucking incredible...gimme a God damn break
@@HoboJoe1416 as bad as this sounds.. the home run battle between McGuire and Sosa followed by Bonds setting the all time record is what revived baseball.
I wish It wouldn’t have taken PED’s to get there, but it’s true nonetheless. Baseball was dying, and the sudden spark of home run records kept it alive.
Pete Rose could have murdered a few people after he retired and still been a first ballot unanimous hall of fame’r.
Baseball hierarchy is almost nothing but pearl-clutching purists who won’t be alive to see the 2040 season.
I am 55 years old, a Baseball (Mets) Fan since 1969, Rose was the Best Hitter I ever saw, but, a SOB of the field, he should be in the Baseball Hall of Fame as a Player. Scott :-)
Skip Bayless is the least talented sports analyst that ever lived.
Pete Rose belongs in the Hall, period! any many more. Committee oughta be ashamed of themselves,for not forgiving Rose. Stephen A.Smith nailed it.
I usually agree with Skip but in this case he’s totally out of his mind. Steven A Smith is 100% correct. It’s infuriating and maddening that Pete Rose isn’t in the HOF. I’ve met Pete and he’s a really cool guy and very gracious and generous.
Very well said Stephen A.
I really admire his ability to find the central points of something with so much shit around it and illustrate what is most important. A rare gift.
This is the most articulate well thought out argument put forth by Steven A. I agree 100% put Pete in the HOF! & put Skip in a hole.
I have to agree. BTW, any other such accomplished athlete in ANY sport ever been shunned like Pete?
A sport he help popularize for an era!
Pete should be in the Hall as a BROADCASTER---MOST KNOWLDGEBLE, WITTY, AND ENTERTAINING ANALYST EVER...when he talks baseball, he breaks it down beautifully and he commands respect. He is revered by fellow panelists A-Rod and Frank Thomas, they really respect him when he talks X's and O's
Pete rose is in the hall of fame. He has multiple jerseys, bats, balls, and helmets encased in Cooperstown
Many say Michael Jordan was allegedly betting on basketball in the 90's. During his first retirement press conference he stated, "Five years down the road, if the urge comes back, if the Bulls will have me, if David Stern lets me back in the league, I may come back." Why would he say if David Stern will have him back? It sounds like he was forced out, and to save face he retired quietly. He was under investigation for gambling prior to his retirement. In fact, the day he retired the investigation stopped. Some give that as a reason he left basketball the first time. If Michael Jordan had bet on basketball like Pete Rose bet on baseball, than there is no reason Pete Rose is not in the hall of fame today...
It is a well known fact that he was told to retire to avoid a scandal. Not sure I can blame Stern if he told him lay low for two years to let the gambling not get out in the open.
With respect to the greats of the game, the Hall of Fame doesn't matter anymore. Rose shouldn't have gambled while still in the league obviously, but he didn't throw ballgames , and that makes a difference.
Pete For The Hall Of Fame!!
pete rose should be in the hall period
Pete is the man and baseball puts his bat and other memorabilia in the hall of fame and not him shame on MLB
This is the reason why I do not watch anything with Skip Bayless!
2,165 Doubles? The record is 792 by Tris Speaker.
Billy Causgrove you’re right!! Rose is 2nd all time though with 746 I have no idea why it says 2,165
Pete Rose should absolutely be put in to the baseball hall of fame. What they (MLB) have put him through is a joke. They (MLB) should be a shame of themselves for banning him all of those years ago.
Harold Baines and Tim Raines made the HOF and they never were 2nd - 3rd best on their teams were they? Never were higher than top 10 at best I believe in MVP voting and not WS MVPs.
Pete Rose threw so many games that he owns most the best stats of all time.
Holy shit, I agree with sas for once
I often disagree with Smith, but he laid out a fantastic case for Pete, and one that I completely agree with.
I can think of 4256 reasons why Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame.
Stephen A. makes a great argument balancing the facts with fairness and historical context...and then Skip goes and argues points that Stephen A. didn't even dispute - trying to represent those facts as his rebuttal. Stephen A. wins running away.
Yes and it goes back to Stephen's point about forgiveness in society AND sports. That Pete has gotten none. By those that have the final say.
Baseball is the greatest sports game ever invented it needs Pete Rose to be in The Hall of Fame.
Baseball fan since 1975
"Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason why it was put up" - Kenesaw Mountain Landis...OK, it was GK Chesterton, but, if you understand the existential crisis that resulted in baseball gamblers being banned from the sport, you'll understand why Pete Rose can't be in the HOF.
zipadeed00dah There is a difference. Those banned by Landis and those previous were banned for throwing the games, therefore undermining the public trust in the games’ outcomes. None of Pete’s bets affected the outcome of games or were to throw games. Maybe you need a better understanding of that historical crisis?
zipadeed00dah Oh how wrong you are
As I watch MLB Network and see the sports betting odds scrolling across the bottom of the screen, see and hear the MLB broadcast personalities promoting fantasy sports betting on air, and see sports gambling companies as major sponsors of MLB; it's time to reinstate Pete Rose and "Shoeless" Joe Jackson and induct them into the Hall of Fame. If MLB is going to actively and blatantly encourage people to bet money on MLB games by promoting sports gambling in an invasive manner, what Pete and Joe did doesn't matter anymore.
If you are going to put Rose in the hall then how about Joe Jackson?
Peter Luk Shoeless?!
Peter Luk Shoeless?!
Peter Luk I forgot that Pete threw an entire World Series for money, it’s been proven he bet on his team to win. But we’ll let all the dudes who used PED’s to allowed to be voted into the game
Joe Jackson played very well during the 1919 World Series.
Fartin Barton ???
I agree with sas here, if their gonna give others a pass they should give Pete one for a lot of reasons. If they came down hard on everyone then I would be ok with Pete staying away but that isn’t the case
Pete Rose doesn't need the MLB HOF; the MLB HOF needs him. The MLB HOF is losing its luster with the above average players being inducted. Few actual greats any more. Nothing about Alan Trammell said HOF while playing. A couple of very good years but he was always in the baseball card common piles growing up. Lou Whitaker might get in soon? Another above average player common pile commando. Sure they played many years for the same team but too many non-great players are getting in. Sure Pete messed up but so is the HOF. It is other than a greatness vote. Dave Concepcion played 19 years for one team and was a great player on great teams; why is he not mentioned for HOF? Trammell in and Concepcion not in? The HOF is a joke!
Smith is saying some of the 1919 Black Sox are in the HOF. Absolutely not true. One of the greatest hitters in the history of the game was among that group. Joe Jackson had a career B.A. of .356; third highest career average all-time. He's STILL on the suspended list and will remain there forever. And we're at 97 years and counting. There were two White Sox players who were NOT involved in the gambling plot who are in the HOF; Ray Schalk and Eddie Collins. That must be who Smith is citing.
If Pete gets in then Shoeless Joe and others should get in as well.
Did you read what I wrote above? None of the 8 indicted for gambling is in the HOF, but two Sox players from the 1919 team ARE in the HOF: Eddie Collins and Ray Schalk. Look it up.
Youre right and that says alot for Skip Bayless, too, because he didn't call him out on it. I don't think either one of them knows baseball very well, at least the history of it.
Skip did make a legitimate point, but I still think Pete should be in the HOF
Pete Rose should be in the hall of fame period.. Big Papi tested positive and he's in the hall of fame
If you don't believe other athletes have not gambled on their sport, you're being willfully naive.
The arguments against Rose are bogus and outdated. It's like holding Prohibition-era charges against breweries.
Damn, 2,100 doubles. That's like 105 a year! What a beast! 😂
Vanilla_Face_619 That was an error. He had 746 lifetime doubles. It had my jaw drop when I first saw it too but then realized it couldn’t be.
Pete Rose is 81 years old, MLB should be in the hall of fame!
Pete Rose is a Hall Of Famer
#14 CHARLIE HUSTLE ⚾️⚾️⚾️
Pete Rose did his thing as a player, pre-gambling. I understand if you don't put Rose in the HOF as a manager, but he deserves to be there as a player.
Daniel Toma except he's addmited to gambling while playing, too.
@@bakershan3825I believe while a player manager, but gambling alone is not bad, it is betting on baseball that gets you the lifetime ban.
Smith is on point with his take.
NO Fn way!!! He violated the first commandment of Baseball. Never Forgive never Forget.
Shut up and look at the stats dickhead
Steven A. is wrong 8 of the 1919 "Black Sox" players were banned for LIFE to include Shoeless Joe Jackson who has a career .356 lifetime batting avg. (3rd highest ever) if you wont let the 3rd highest life time batting average in the HoF almost 100 years after the incident then Pete Rose cannot ever be let in.
Matthew Tacha the difference is, the "Black Socks" cheated, Pete never did
Charlie Hustle greatest hitter I ever saw says this die hard Yankee fan ! Hope he returns he paid his dues
Embarrassing. Rose is a scumbag, he accepted his punishment to avoid further investigation. Think about that, he took the ‘plea’ because he knew there was worse to come, he’s a coward and a corrupt cheat.
Well said!
Pete Rose for Hall of Fame!!
Say it, SAY IT. Pete rose should be a HOF
I think Stephen A is incorrect. Not only aren 't ANY of the players from the Black Sox scandal that were involved, eight of them, in the Hall of Fame, but some of the players that didn't even take money, but just knew about it and didnt alert the club, were also thrown out of baseball. Joe Jackson, who did take money, but if you look at his stats, he certainly didn't seem to throw the world series, also was thrown out. I really think that the only thing that has kept Pete Rose out of the HOF is his own arrogance.
Pete Rose is not in the hall because of his attitude and that should not keep him out of the building. Pete had a illness like many other humans including athletes. He brought allot to the game. I believe in my heart that if Bart Giamatti was still alive behind close doors he would regret that decision and would want Pete in the hall. He deserves to be in the hall.
well said...
Stephen A. Smith. Have just earned my respect.
Pete Rose HOF
Montreal baseball
154 game schedule
Lance Myers i agree with u on Mtl Baseball ( remember when Pete played for Mtl ) but HOF is out of the question
Pete Rose Hall of Famer
Now with all the betting fango and all the commercial betting - appalling
he def should be in
Let's think for a moment for kids, today and tomorrow, who never saw him play, but see his stats. All time hit leader, 2nd in doubles, I know he's high in triples, too. Played all outfield positions and infield, except short. Most 200 hit seasons. 3 time world series champion.
You think they're not gonna wonder why this man is NOT in the HOF?
And they either look up the reason or an elder family member, friend or co worker tells them. Just curious about their reaction or thoughts.
Does Pete Rose belong in the Hall of Fame? Yes. Will he ever get in? No.
The rule is clear and every ballplayer knows it. If you bet on baseball, you are banned for life! No exceptions. No second chances. What is there about that don't people understand?
People don’t understand that your actions have consequences. Pete Rose is being punished cause he opened Pandora’s box. MLB made an example out of him. Don’t let him in until he passes away.
Stephen A. was mentioning two members of the 1919 Chicago White Sox who are in the Hall of Fame: he must have been referring to Eddie Collins and Ray Schalk. Those guys though weren't among the 8 banned from baseball for throwing games.
And there is evidence based on play alone that Joe Jackson might not have thrown the games. Now he took money, though I believe he did return the money, so if he never threw games and returned the money, I think he deserves to be reinstated.
Pete knew the penalty, and did it anyway. Banned. Joe Jackson didn't gamble but was associated with known gamblers. Banned
jordan bet on basketball for the bulls to win same thing a rose
Is that a proven fact ?
As much of a Rose fan as I am I'm torn because I kind of agree with Skip you cannot jeopardize the very game itself or baseball could end up just like horse racing with it's notorious race fixing. As a baseball fan if i thought games were being manipulated I would quit watching as well as a lot of other fans.
Get your head out your ass
You mean boxing?
"Brother been servin' 26 years and countin' 😂😂😂
Numbers wise he should be in the hall of fame. Pete is his own enemy with what happened to him. Saling his autograph outside of Cooper's town and MLB offices reasons yes not in
Steven A always has such sharp points
PED use doesn't delegitimize the game?
Let Pete Rose into Hall of Fame. With all the crap going on in the majors last 20 yrs, who cares if this man bet on baseball,
Many years the HOF considers players who have been on ballots for years and they get in based on sympathy. Stop handing out sympathy awards and put in the greatest hitter ever.
Sorry Pete, you violated the one rule from which there is no return.
Put Pete in the HOF!
As I grow older I start to realize Stephen A Smith is a philosopher in our modern day sport topics.
Should be in the HOF....
The hypocrisy of Skip Bayless is amazing
As well as several powers that be in baseball.
put him in !!!!!your right how many cheaters. are playing or were playing
He’ll never be in the HOF. He’s banned for life.
Good debate - I side with Steven A Smith -
14 Charlie Hustle HOF
Rose should never be in a hall of fame, he’s a liar and won’t tell the truth, no matter how many years it’s been...
Why does shortani making $700M who got caught betting and Pete Rose is banned - shameful
I agree with Smith. The simple fact is that Rose did not do anything to affect the results of a single game in an unethical manner. Everyone who used performance-enhancing drugs did exactly that. Rose did not cheat, the others all did. That the others should be forgiven and he should not be is a moral travesty. This is not Black Sox because Rose never bet against his own team. The argument was made that Rose should be penalized because he affected how bookies calculated odds? I’m sorry, but it was not Rose’s responsibility to uphold the ethics of oddsmakers, and that that should outweigh upholding the ethics of the game itself is beyond asinine.
Should be in the Hall of Fame it’s not even a question
Skip your wrong on the one. Pete should be in the Hall of Fame. It;s been 30 years now and he has paid the price for his sins. Let it go and Put Charley Hustle in the Hall.
Put him in the hall of fame for crying out loud!!! It’s been 30 years
I know right?! Utter Bullshit! Pete Rose is 80 years old...LET HIM IN. He's the all time hits leader damnit so what he gambled on baseball. Willie mays AND yankees Icon Mickey mantle were both banned for life but they were reinstated. Now that's hypocrisy. Come on Manfred reinstate Pete Rose because so far your fucking up the national pastime by NOT letting in an all time great into cooperstown. You should be ashamed of yourself commissioner Manfred. You don't care about baseball history at all. You just care about "oh he's a gambler and a criminal. Well guess what?! Let it go forget the past and live in the Present day.
At 00:41 that graphic should say 2,165 runs scored, not doubles. And they show it again at 03:40 unbelievable. Where are the fact checkers?
jgarrison1309 He had 746 doubles.
Lifelong Reds fan. I remember when Pete came up and replaced Don Blasingame in 1963 and followed his entire career. I loved him as a ballplayer. But he broke the one rule in baseball that can't be broken. Gambling very nearly destroyed the game a century ago. No rule in sports is more clear than the rule against gambling. I personally feel the same way about the cheaters who've been juiced. You don't deserve a second chance when your 'mistake' jeopardizes the credibility of the entire sport/business. I know I'm in a minority among Reds fans, but that's the way it is.
get the fuck over it. He was bored as a manager so he put some money on it. He never bet on them to lose. Sitting in that dugout when you were a player for 26 years is boring as fuck. He was a winner his whole life. he was just looking for a little competitive excitement. What he did never effected the outcome of a game. The entire steroid generation effected baseball history. Stop being dumb and brainwashed its fucking sickening how stupid you sound
I want the steroid boys out of baseball too. As for the rest of your juvenile comments, you're talking out your ass. You don't know if what he did affected the outcome of any game. And boredom is no excuse for violating the cardinal rule of baseball repeatedly.
That was nearly 30 years ago. let go ,forgive, and forget. Pete Rose BELONGS in the Baseball Hall of Fame, and you KNOW it.
If Rose belongs in the HOF, so does Joe Jackson. It's been a century since Jackson helped throw the 1919 World Series and he was a much better player than Rose. After that, where do you draw the line?
"If Rose belongs in the HoF, so does Joe Jackson... (H)e was a much better player than Rose."
Then what are we waiting for? *LET'S GET IT STARTED!*
Pete rose should be in the hall of fame because of his numbers on the field baseball not letting Pete rose in the hall of fame is as stupid as the NCAA takeing away joe paternoster wins at penn state while he’s still alive then they give paterno all his wins back to him after he died that makes makes no sense to me at all
If Barry bonds didn’t get stripped of his most home runs for getting caught for juice.Then he should be in the hall of fame.
Sometimes I wonder had the black sox scandal never happened would the league have been as strict? They fined the guy a measly $50,000 ...Here's an idea...Fine him $100,000 and let him in the hall!
Skip does not want Pete Rose nor Terrell Owens to be (their sport) Hall of Famers based only on non-cheating non-stats issues.
Growing up in the seventies, not one kid did not want to play like Pete. He better go in before he dies. I won't watch the game anymore because of it.
Thank you Stephen A. for summarizing my argument and pointing out the abject hypocrisy in baseball. Performance-enhancing drugs affected the statistics and the very game. Pete’s betting did not. Halt inductions for one year. Install Pete, Shoeless Joe, and any other worthy Black Sox (If they did it, Comiskey drove them to it). Until then, I doubt I’ll be back in a major league park. Pete’s treatment and the ‘94 Strike still leaves a sour taste.
I don't think it's relevant if Rose says he gambled, but never against the Reds. For years he maintained that he never gambled period, but eventually admitted to that. It looks like a slippery slope. Upholding the ban serves an important purpose. If they don't uphold the ban and eventually let him in, that sends a message to current players that they can do the same, be reprimanded for a period of time, but it'll ultimately amount to a slap on the wrist and no lasting punishment is worth worrying about.
A 35yr ban is just a slap on the wrist?
Pete Rose would've had 5000 hits if he actually didn't try because of a bet..
*Betting on any sport that you participate in is reason to ban anyone...PERIOD...end of story....maintaining "'Credibility" is necessary for any sport.*
He's been in the Hall of Fame since his retirement from playing...haters and those that are jealous can't keep him out
Stephen A. Is on point!!
My fav Baseball player.
I don't know. He lied about betting for 15 years, finally "comes clean" but said he never bet against his own team. Who knows?And his bats were corked. That's like PED's for singles hitters.