Ian: This gun was used by shady characters in various media. Also Ian: This particular gun has all serial numbers filed off, and fake stampings put on.
My guess is that somebody wanted to sell these as something of high quality (the US military would not use junk). So the true origins of the guns had to be hidden.
Judging by all the strange alterations on this particular gun - I would guess someone tried to upsell it as some top-secret CIA prototype (rather than cheap croatian machine-pistol). That's why he destroyed the original name on the gun, etched some "US Military MP 86" nonsense, and put it in a random case with a hole - to make it look like some James Bond stuff.
That's my thought, too. I don't think he removed "Agram 2000" from the grip because he was trying to hide the serial number, he removed it to hide that it's an Agram 2000. Removing identifying marks is an important step in trying to create a counterfeit "US Military MP 86".
@@Carolina_Luke Riiiight, 'cos carrying a 20" long bag is subtle, and 20" would be for a crink with folded stock, the shortest possible option. Not that it would function within the confines of a bag anyway. I have a Doctor's Bag I take to the range, and that's 17" and a bit of a lump.
can't shake the feeling that the guy who put it in this bag was really determined to put it in THIS VERY BAG AND IF IT WON'T FIT I'LL MAKE THAT LITTLE BASTARD FIT
Reminds me of a story told my my late grand uncle. During WWII in nazi-occupied Norway, he managed to buy a Krag-Jørgensen rifle on the black market. Not for shooting Germans, as much as for hunting so he could supply his family with meat. Anyway, a problem was how to get this long infantry rifle home from a nearby town on public transportation without being caught. He and the seller came up with the brilliant plan of concealing the serious crime inside a much lesser one that the Germans would likely ignore; a wooden crate of black market potatoes. They nailed together a long crate with big enough gaps between the boards that one could see the potatoes without opening the crate. While building this crate, they were getting blackout drunk on moonshine and having a jolly good time. When they sobered up the next day and he was to take the bus home, they found the crate was just about an inch too short. Solution? Drill a hole for the muzzle, and cover that again with a small wooden block nailed to the outside. Stuff potatoes all around the gun, nail the lid on, and bring the crate home on the bus. Which worked fine, until there was an accident and the bus went off the road. He had to carry the crate out of the ditched bus onto some other transport, and the accident site was swarming with German soldiers. Thinking on his feet, he asked a German to help carry his heavy luggage; the German winked knowingly and said "Kartoffeln, ja?". Som that's how an enemy soldier helped him bring a black market rifle home, thinking it was merely some black market potatoes.
As soon as I saw that case I thought it looked custom made for a specific item (before being repurposed) and wondered what it was, much thanks for satisfying my curiosity.
Hey. Thanks for that. I love seeing old cases from past decades that were clearly paired with something. I'm reminded of a chocolate brown pleather shoulder bag that went with the chocolate brown Texas Instruments laptop with Windows 3.1 on it. Gotta love things that were clearly of a time.
It only really needed two things to fix it and both were so easy it's odd they never bothered. The recoil spring could have been fixed with a captive telescoping guide rod, and the folding stock they quit using. Had they done those two things it probably would have been a well known, commonly used SMG. It so compact and simplistic, guaranteed it would have been a winner for many European military/special forces groups.
Agreed, if only they fix the two problem (recoil spring and stock) then sell it to some Mid. East military or Asian military countries instead of black market I bet it will getting adapted and getting more attention as one of good SMG in the world
Go 1 way orthe other with it. As a cheap blaster, have it fire from an open bolt. As a accurate weapon, give it a stock. The 2 position stock might be surpressed and supersonic.
@@redwolfexr its a tube receiver SMG whos only real machining time comes from its nature of firing from a closed bolt. it'd be 1/4 to 1/4 the price of an mp5. Many European/ African/ South American/ Asian countries would have picked it up rather quickly. especially in the 80s. South Africa was ravenous for good cheap guns alone.
I mean, he honestly has singlehandedly pivoted the view of French firearms from worthless crap to misunderstood gems. he is probably well known and highly regarded in French firearm circles
February 11, 1998 In Budapest, Hungary, a media mogul who dealing with videocassettes and newspapers was murdered as he sat in his car and using his cell phone while waiting for the traffic light. About 20-25 shots were fired at him through the first side window, into which he immediately died The perpetrator used a silenced Agram 2000 submachine gun, which he threw while fleeing in the door of one of the houses there. In 2013, only Hungarian police officers could identify the killer on the basis of DNA, who was once an employee of the Slovak secret service but after the change of communist regime, he started working for organized criminals as a hit man and as a bomb expert.
In 1972 a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn’t commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. Today, still wanted by the government, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them. Maybe you could hire, The A Team. Sorry that’s what your post reminded me of. I was halfway through before I realized I was answering to a post that was over a year old and probably wasting my time. PS. These Croatian guns are very cool, and seem to be well made considering the circumstances.
Adding a folding stock would be a breeze for anyone with a decent home workshop. The rear sling attachment point could be easily converted to a mounting point with just a drill press, a vise, a spot welder and a few pieces of sheet metal. That and a telescoping guide rod would be all you'd need to turn this into an excellent compact submachinegun.
CZcams has gone downhill even more so recently. I sure love having 2 politically 'woke' unskippable ads before every single video. Oh and tarot card reading advertising.
This thing saved my life when I lived in South California in 2020. Just a week after I got it, a couple of Gangers jumped me on my way home from a Silverhand concert. 10/10, would flatline some Maelstrom again.
The Cold War was the PDW/Machine Pistol era. Abolishing the NFA would make many of them legitimate options for civilians (Vz. 65, Mini Uzi, MP5K, Beretta 12, P90-Barely)
The reported rate of fire of the Agram 2000 is 800 rpm (cf an Uzi at 600 rpm). This makes sense as the breech block is light and fires from a closed bolt (no forward inertia to utilise as in some open bolt types which fire just before closing the breech). To get a lower rate of fire with closed bolt operation a delayed opening is needed (eg MP5), or a heavier bolt is needed. I suspect one reason the Croatian military would not have chosen the Agram is the high rate of fire. Gangsters only need to spray a magazine once for their assassinations.
this could have been so great if they had used the recoil spring/guide rod/ejector combination system that the pps43 used. as soon as i saw the magwell i immediately thought of the pps43
French police research collection has some nice firearms. The Angram 2000 reminds me of the Carl Gustav M/45 /Interdynamic MP-9/Tec-9 The ported barrel with barrel sleeve is sweet AF
That barrel sleeve was really damn clever. While it did mean one more separate component from the gun you had to maintain, it made this SMG more flexible in employment.
I got Intratec vibes off it, too. Glad I'm not the only one. Single pin holding it together, rear cap with a finder hole and sling mount. Really coincidences more than anything, but it still felt similar.
This is the sketchiest gun Ian has looked at imo. Not build quality or anything, its no chinese mystery pistol. But I really feel like this gun has been used for various nefarious purposes
@@fucyu3528 Self defense? Helping to defend your country against an invading superpower like say…Russia? But yeah no, unless your hunting or at the range, using a gun is ALWAYS nefarious. NEFARIOUS I SAY!!!!
Makes sense considering that they were basically hammered together in a backroom workshop during the partial anarchic phase of a civil war. That thing certainly can't hold a candle to modern products of the Croatian firearm industry, like the HS Produkt VHS-2.
It's weird that they're known for unreliability as their so simple. Probably a mix of the gas porting and bolt weight.............and that recoil spring (that could have been fixed with a captive spring on a telescoping guide rod). It honestly could have been a very good gun with very small changes.
@@oskng Oh, ofcourse you would say that. Why do you Croatians still lie 30 years later about what happened? You know, there is a big difference between a war crime and defending your own country against invaders. Also, don't forget that your people accepted Hitler with open hands when he arrived in Zagreb. This is just sad, stop pretending.
almost looks to me like one owner who knew about the barrel extension put it in the case without the extension on, as it fits quite nicely. Then sold it to another owner who had no idea about it and tried to shove it into the case with the extension on.
Evo komentar od Hrvata... Zanimljiv video gospodine Ian, inače pratim Vaše video uratke kad stignem pa mi je drago vidjeti kada imate hrvatsko oružje kao temu (Here is a comment from a Croatian...Interesting video mr. Ian, I usually follow your videos when I can so Im glad to see Croatian weapons being covered)
It's unrealistic to expect what is close to a private museum to allow you to shoot this particular Agram, but I'd be really interested to see how it handles with and without the suppressor. Maybe one of your viewers has one of these.
Honestly I like the idea of having a system to be able to switch normal ammunition from super to subsonic. This feature should be adapted in modern firearm design.
That one screw holding front grip looks a whole lot like it was grabbed from the nearest hardware store... then again that's probably to be expected from a gun with some of the markings removed. But this thing still looks so _goddamn_ cool.
I think given the circumstances and time it was made, its not really that bad. A bit unrefined, but there's some potential there with them and something like a telescoping bolt would probably help a bit in terms of the springing things. Not thats likely to happen with the people involved!
Rather nice little close protection firearm actually and more accurate at under say, 30 metres than you may think. Any half decent shooter can put short bursts into a man-sized target at that range and that is all it was designed to do. Pretty much a silenced, 9mm Skorpian. If only the field strip issue wasn't there it would be quite a desirable piece for its intended role.
Now does its size compare to a Skorpion? If you have access to the info, muzzle velocity/bullet combo for silenced fire, and how picky is it ammo wise for suppressed operation.
Love the look of this subgun. It's very light & compact and fires from a closed bolt to keep the recoil down and make it more controlable. It looks inexpesive to make and had a polymer lower available to make it even cheaper. Give it a captive recoil spring and solve fighting the long recoil spring. Add a folding stock and it would appear to be a great little subgun.
Croatia was one of the first countries to adopt full-automatic pistol, it's name was "Ručni rad 1" in 1944. It was used by Croatian freedom fighters, terrorists and Croatian/Slovenian democratic revolutionaries.
They could've used the receiver plug as the stock point. Make a stock that threads into the receiver and holds the recoil spring in, heck they could even affix the spring and guide rod into the stock to make assembly easier
Ian keeps harping on the lack of stock, but with two grips and a sling at the rear (as it's set up for), first-round accuracy can be just as good as with a wire stock. It obviously doesn't do as much for recoil as a stock would, but it helps a lot more than most people would think. Really, using a sling to brace a gun seems to be a lost art with all the pistol braces out there.
Like Justin referenced, the SAS-sling method was the first thing that popped into my head as the grips seem like made for pushing away from the body rather than pull towards the (non-existent) shoulder stock. Techique matters a lot, like we found out in Ian's Trash-cannon video.
I spent three years in the war as a journalist and never once saw one of these. Croatian paramilitaries had Thompsons mostly. Also AKs. One of my favorite guns used in the war was a Slovenian machine pistol which fired .22 LR. It had a 750 round drum on top, a suppressor, and fired only bursts of 3. Very cool!
I think it was clearly inspired by the Steyr TMP which came out right before this gun did in the late-1980s: no stock, front handle only, compact size, closed bolt. It's chunky by comparison to the TMP (1.3 KG), but it's not bad considering how crude it is in comparison to the TMP.
A good start to a super interesting series! Can't wait for the other videos at IRCGN! My favorite videos are when you do visits like these, or the interviews with Christian Prouteau. Keep up the amazing work Ian!
I am originally from Croatia but live in Switzerland. In my village and all the villages around everyone has a Agram 2000, in a camo carry case. You can buy one for around 4-500 Dollars but they are not the best quality. So most people prefer Zastava Ak underfolders.
@@oskng trenutno zivim u svicarskoj, ali kuci sam u blizini bosankoj granice, i kod nas su dosta oruzije ostale iz vrjeme rata svako je sakrijo sta je bilo moguce i donejo iz bosne sta se moglo kupit. Znam kakva je situacija sada u nasoj domovini ali ima jos dosta sakrijeno.
After playing Sniper Elite 5, I think a cool gun to get a vid on would be the SREM-1. It's one of those wacky prototypes that never got adopted and I think there might only be 1 or 2 that got made of about 20 commissioned prototypes according to Jonathan Ferguson of Royal Armouries.
Please note that leaving some part of the bag opened with your hand into it is the way that the B&T's MP5 bag operates. No it's not completely crazy. However the B&T bag is more discrete since you can't see the barrel's nose.
Man idk what it is but I just love the look of the Agram, it's just such a nice size, and it has that goofy yet cool thumbhole front grip, the polymer baseplates, so iconic. Honestly I'd want one if it had a stock, even if it is a fairly flimsy wire one, and maybe try to figure out some sort of captive recoil spring because, yeah that's just atrocious. Plus as far as "gangster guns" go, this one is definitely one of the better ones, and practical too, unlike... draco AKs *shudders*
I'm surprised that flash hider has holes on the bottom. With the front grip so close to the end of the barrel that couldn't have been very comfortable to shoot.
(at some mall) everyone: shopping, roaming around, food court noises, background sound of Agram 2000 in a Far cry 3 demo being played at a game store PS 3 kiosk (at some mall service room) Ian: reviews a very handy little submachine gun stored in a playstation console carry bag
Dude! I really like the design of this gun! A lot of really well-thought out details. I can't believe I'd probably never have heard of this gun if not for your channel. Thanks Ian! Even the recoil spring issue seems like it wouldn't take that much modification to improve
I've been long curious why we don't see more guns that use the recoil spring guide as a fixed ejector rod. That might have reduced the unsupported length of the recoil spring a useful amount as well as reducing one (albeit fixed) part.
Guide rods are usually fairly beefy but simple parts, even approaching the diameter of the casing itself, in a very simple form which is usually just a cut to length piece of stock (possibly turned to diameter) usually with simple machining on one end or both depending on style. To use a full diameter rod as the ejector would require a big hole on the face of the bolt and a large, unsupported section of the rim around it, substantially more than is actually needed to just eject the round. This also requires the action spring to be substantially behind the bolt face which is not ideal. For example, if you want the bolt to travel back an inch and a quarter before ejection then the guide rod must be at least an inch and a quarter back from the bolt face when firing. The rod would need to be in a hole large enough for the rod but small enough it does not let the spring through, and the rod would need to be started in the bolt already at that point, so the spring would actually be stopping about an inch and three eights or an inch and a half back from the bolt face. This is a substantial reduction in the length available for the spring. The spring will be compressed more, which it might not be able to do, so it will require a shorter spring, but it still needs to be strong enough to feed properly so it will need a stronger spring, which makes handling more difficult. If you reduce the diameter of the guide rod at the end to limit the issues caused by having an extra hole where you want solid metal then it makes the spring issue even worse since the spring will need the full diameter to keep it from bending in on itself, so the spring will need to be set back behind where the diameter reduces. The amount required to be reduced depends on the maximum amount of expected travel for the bolt, so if it is expected to travel two inches and ejection will begin at one and a quarter then you need at least three quarters of reduced rod to protrude from the bolt face, then more allowed for the reduced diameter on the bolt face so another eighth or so, meaning seven eighths of reduced diameter, so when assembled the spring would need to be seven eighths plus one and a quarter plus a little for stability back, so the spring would have to be set back at least two and an eighth inches back from where it normally could be. The length the spring can be in is reduced more than the travel of the bolt, that is huge and require heavy springs or a longer gun than necessary otherwise to allow for a longer spring. This all assumes the firing pin/striker design is such that having the recoil spring/action spring be in the same space somehow is not an issue. Compare this to the two most common forms of ejector; a fixed blade that requires only a narrow slit in the bolt and a sprung plunger that requires a small hole. The action spring can go nearly the full length of the bolt (which is quite a bit past the bolt face in common telescoping bolt designs) without interference allowing them to be as long (and easy to use) as possible and as small an area as possible is compromised on the bolt face to limit fouling/failures, all at the very low price of one to three parts.
Exactly what you would do with a 150 meter notch on an iron-sighted, stockless machine pistol, I really don't know... Miss, you would miss. A lot. And in full auto, miss a lot at very high rate of fire.
Pretty much ur the only dude I have 100% respect for in weapons videos, totally professional no look at me crap, all about weapons to the point. Thanks bro for your commitment 🇺🇸👍
I remember reading a news article here in the UK about 15 years ago that remarked on an increasing incidence of these guns being used in crime here. The article identified these guns as "A.2000s" and mentioned that they take Uzi mags - is this media hyperbole?
It's not hyperbole, they probably really thought like that. I mean, recently the president of the united states of america was talking about 300 rounds magazines. Yeah, those notorious, pesky 300 rounds magazines. At least they're not fully automatic clipazines, i guess.
0:54 I can see where the confusion came from. To be fair to them the average person on the street wouldn't give a rat's ass about rigorous nomenclature in any technical field, firearms included. We in this comment section are the exception, not the rule.
@@Narcan885 In my country, the media calls "machine gun" or "weapon of war" to any tactical/modern looking .22 rimfire carbine. All SMGs or similar guns are "Uzis" and all shotguns are "Ithacas".
This really takes several pages from the Tec-9. Single lug attachment, threaded rear endcap, long small diameter recoil spring with a guide rod fastened to another disc that must be compressed by the endcap, and I would bet the extractor is a simple single piece of formed spring steel retained in the bolt by a set screw. Like the Tec-9. Incidentally, if your Tec-9 is not running properly, it's overwhelmingly likely the problem will trace to the extractor not being set in the right position. Just make sure the claw surface is trued up, put a cartridge on the bolt face, push the extractor tight against the rim, and tighten the set screw firmly. Make sure it's tight periodically. If you still aren't flinging empty cases out vigorously, chamfer the inside corners of the extractor body to increase tension on the cartridge rim. Also remember to replace your recoil and striker springs every several thousand rounds.
Ian: This gun was used by shady characters in various media.
Also Ian: This particular gun has all serial numbers filed off, and fake stampings put on.
... and comes in probably one of the sketchiest gun case in the history of mankind
My guess is that somebody wanted to sell these as something of high quality (the US military would not use junk). So the true origins of the guns had to be hidden.
@@barttorbert5031 It's like all those warlord pistols that claim to be Colt, or FN, or Mauser; sometimes all on the same gun.
@@barttorbert5031 Just because the US military pays vastly over-inflated prices for its equipment doesn't necessarily mean it's good quality, lol!
@@TheCatLady65 idk USA military has better equipment than most militarys worldwide.
This was one of my favorite guns to use in Far Cry 3. Very obscure one to put in a game.
YESSSSSS
That game had some terrible choices in guns, like the svd being the only semiauto marksman rifle and every other one being bolt action *
Ah, Far Cry 3. The game that got copied over and over, but without any of the fun or atmosphere.
@@WH250398 not that fr3 was that much fun, it was a shoot conquest and climb simulator, it had a very nice story doh
@@SproloquiTv Bolt action, you mean?
Judging by all the strange alterations on this particular gun - I would guess someone tried to upsell it as some top-secret CIA prototype (rather than cheap croatian machine-pistol). That's why he destroyed the original name on the gun, etched some "US Military MP 86" nonsense, and put it in a random case with a hole - to make it look like some James Bond stuff.
That's my thought, too.
I don't think he removed "Agram 2000" from the grip because he was trying to hide the serial number, he removed it to hide that it's an Agram 2000. Removing identifying marks is an important step in trying to create a counterfeit "US Military MP 86".
I'd personally go for an AK-47 or AK-74 with a removed stock or compact folding stock designed to fit in a suitcase.
Huh.
@@Carolina_Luke Riiiight, 'cos carrying a 20" long bag is subtle, and 20" would be for a crink with folded stock, the shortest possible option. Not that it would function within the confines of a bag anyway. I have a Doctor's Bag I take to the range, and that's 17" and a bit of a lump.
@@engineeredlifeform Yea, if anything something like the burgess would be perfect for mall ninja concealed carry since it has that trenchcoat holster.
can't shake the feeling that the guy who put it in this bag was really determined to put it in THIS VERY BAG AND IF IT WON'T FIT I'LL MAKE THAT LITTLE BASTARD FIT
True!! Too funny
Right that's pretty much what I was thinking
I bet at one point there was a string attached to the trigger 🤣
Reminds me of a story told my my late grand uncle. During WWII in nazi-occupied Norway, he managed to buy a Krag-Jørgensen rifle on the black market. Not for shooting Germans, as much as for hunting so he could supply his family with meat. Anyway, a problem was how to get this long infantry rifle home from a nearby town on public transportation without being caught. He and the seller came up with the brilliant plan of concealing the serious crime inside a much lesser one that the Germans would likely ignore; a wooden crate of black market potatoes. They nailed together a long crate with big enough gaps between the boards that one could see the potatoes without opening the crate. While building this crate, they were getting blackout drunk on moonshine and having a jolly good time.
When they sobered up the next day and he was to take the bus home, they found the crate was just about an inch too short. Solution? Drill a hole for the muzzle, and cover that again with a small wooden block nailed to the outside. Stuff potatoes all around the gun, nail the lid on, and bring the crate home on the bus.
Which worked fine, until there was an accident and the bus went off the road. He had to carry the crate out of the ditched bus onto some other transport, and the accident site was swarming with German soldiers. Thinking on his feet, he asked a German to help carry his heavy luggage; the German winked knowingly and said "Kartoffeln, ja?". Som that's how an enemy soldier helped him bring a black market rifle home, thinking it was merely some black market potatoes.
Mom, can we have MP5K tactical briefcase?
No, we have tactical briefcase at home.
Tactical Briefcase at home:
That bag is a cochlear implant kit for a high end hearing aid btw. Wonder if that tells anything about previous use.
Not the best advert for a suppressed smg is it hahaha
@@justme_gb increase your glasses prescription so you can read louder
@@zXPeterz14 Probably bought it because of his hearing, instead of it being the cause of his hearing.
As soon as I saw that case I thought it looked custom made for a specific item (before being repurposed) and wondered what it was, much thanks for satisfying my curiosity.
Hey. Thanks for that. I love seeing old cases from past decades that were clearly paired with something. I'm reminded of a chocolate brown pleather shoulder bag that went with the chocolate brown Texas Instruments laptop with Windows 3.1 on it. Gotta love things that were clearly of a time.
It only really needed two things to fix it and both were so easy it's odd they never bothered. The recoil spring could have been fixed with a captive telescoping guide rod, and the folding stock they quit using. Had they done those two things it probably would have been a well known, commonly used SMG. It so compact and simplistic, guaranteed it would have been a winner for many European military/special forces groups.
Thing is those types of agencies can easily buy from HK who do SMGs so much better. And I suspect they were not THAT much cheaper.
Agreed, if only they fix the two problem (recoil spring and stock) then sell it to some Mid. East military or Asian military countries instead of black market I bet it will getting adapted and getting more attention as one of good SMG in the world
Go 1 way orthe other with it. As a cheap blaster, have it fire from an open bolt. As a accurate weapon, give it a stock. The 2 position stock might be surpressed and supersonic.
@@redwolfexr I bet it was significantly cheaper, as in 2 or 3 cheap guns vs a top of the line version.
@@redwolfexr its a tube receiver SMG whos only real machining time comes from its nature of firing from a closed bolt. it'd be 1/4 to 1/4 the price of an mp5. Many European/ African/ South American/ Asian countries would have picked it up rather quickly. especially in the 80s. South Africa was ravenous for good cheap guns alone.
The degree of access that Ian gets to interesting collections is outstanding.
I mean, he honestly has singlehandedly pivoted the view of French firearms from worthless crap to misunderstood gems. he is probably well known and highly regarded in French firearm circles
@@Pupil0fGod Good point. I would think so, yes.
Dream job
Thank god Ian blurred out the remove of the suppressor. Otherwise the algorithm would figure out how to take a suppressor off...
Ah yes, the sidearm of choice for red-clad snipers everywhere
Shame those examples can't be equipped with a suppressor
@@SkipTheKip You can buy the signature weapon with one I think. It's been a couple years though so don't quote me
TBH I haven't played 3 and only 4. I forgot if the signature version has a suppressor
@@cheekibreeki904 There is no signature version of the A2000.
@@SkipTheKip I just started a new playthrough, and you can, in fact, fit it with a suppressor.
That secondary barrel sleeve idea is really cool.
February 11, 1998 In Budapest, Hungary, a media mogul who dealing with videocassettes and newspapers was murdered as he sat in his car and using his cell phone while waiting for the traffic light.
About 20-25 shots were fired at him through the first side window, into which he immediately died
The perpetrator used a silenced Agram 2000 submachine gun, which he threw while fleeing in the door of one of the houses there.
In 2013, only Hungarian police officers could identify the killer on the basis of DNA, who was once an employee of the Slovak secret service but after the change of communist regime, he started working for organized criminals as a hit man and as a bomb expert.
Governments are organized criminals conducting extortion and protection rackets.
Man, fuck all them licks I just want it because it looks cool 🤣
…&%#@ is all I can say. This has implications for Slovakian national security.
🤨🤔🤗🏴☠☠⚰🪦🥀👻👀Yup❗ 😁 G-G.
In 1972 a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn’t commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. Today, still wanted by the government, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them. Maybe you could hire, The A Team.
Sorry that’s what your post reminded me of. I was halfway through before I realized I was answering to a post that was over a year old and probably wasting my time.
PS. These Croatian guns are very cool, and seem to be well made considering the circumstances.
Damn it's crazy to see how simple, lightweight, and small this SMG is, while still managing to be close bolt and subsonic/suppressed. Very impressive.
Adding a folding stock would be a breeze for anyone with a decent home workshop. The rear sling attachment point could be easily converted to a mounting point with just a drill press, a vise, a spot welder and a few pieces of sheet metal.
That and a telescoping guide rod would be all you'd need to turn this into an excellent compact submachinegun.
Gotta be thankful to Ian for keeping youtube an interesting place
CZcams has gone downhill even more so recently. I sure love having 2 politically 'woke' unskippable ads before every single video.
Oh and tarot card reading advertising.
@@imadrifter ok get an adblocker then
This thing saved my life when I lived in South California in 2020.
Just a week after I got it, a couple of Gangers jumped me on my way home from a Silverhand concert. 10/10, would flatline some Maelstrom again.
You think Maelstrom ever forgets?!?
*NEVER*
I cant tell if this is sarcasm or geniune
@@Jynx1927 it's a Cyberpunk RPG joke; this thing looks like something straight out of scifi
@@littlegiantj8761 oh
@@littlegiantj8761It's hard to say what's a video game reference and what's actual America, the line is not always clear
When a Thompson and a P90 love each other very much...
I would love to see one of those on the range.
spoiler alert
I would not want to be near the guy that uses this on the range.
The barrel options are pretty cool, with a folding stock i would think this could make a really decent PDW.
The Cold War was the PDW/Machine Pistol era. Abolishing the NFA would make many of them legitimate options for civilians (Vz. 65, Mini Uzi, MP5K, Beretta 12, P90-Barely)
...or maybe it's intended to be used like SAS used their MP5s, braced forward against the sling?
@@joebenson528 abolish the nfa XD
The reported rate of fire of the Agram 2000 is 800 rpm (cf an Uzi at 600 rpm). This makes sense as the breech block is light and fires from a closed bolt (no forward inertia to utilise as in some open bolt types which fire just before closing the breech). To get a lower rate of fire with closed bolt operation a delayed opening is needed (eg MP5), or a heavier bolt is needed. I suspect one reason the Croatian military would not have chosen the Agram is the high rate of fire. Gangsters only need to spray a magazine once for their assassinations.
this could have been so great if they had used the recoil spring/guide rod/ejector combination system that the pps43 used. as soon as i saw the magwell i immediately thought of the pps43
could have been fixed with a captive spring on a telescoping guide rod.
French police research collection has some nice firearms.
The Angram 2000 reminds me of the Carl Gustav M/45 /Interdynamic MP-9/Tec-9
The ported barrel with barrel sleeve is sweet AF
That barrel sleeve was really damn clever. While it did mean one more separate component from the gun you had to maintain, it made this SMG more flexible in employment.
Ooo.
I believe the Tec-9 was a major inspiration
I got Intratec vibes off it, too. Glad I'm not the only one. Single pin holding it together, rear cap with a finder hole and sling mount. Really coincidences more than anything, but it still felt similar.
Not the police, not the same thing 😁
This is the sketchiest gun Ian has looked at imo. Not build quality or anything, its no chinese mystery pistol. But I really feel like this gun has been used for various nefarious purposes
Unless you are hunting for meat to feed your people or having a fun range day, any practical use of arms is inherently nefarious.
The VP-9 "Vet Pistol" would like a word
@@fucyu3528 Self Defense is nefarious? Pest Control? Competition Shooting?
People use guns for than hunting and shooting at a square range.
@@fucyu3528 Self defense? Helping to defend your country against an invading superpower like say…Russia?
But yeah no, unless your hunting or at the range, using a gun is ALWAYS nefarious. NEFARIOUS I SAY!!!!
I dubbed it the "crime gun 2000" in my head lol
Please do more blackmarket guns from hand made to clandestine machine shop they and their history always seem fascinating
I find their simplicity very awesome and inspiring too
I only saw one of these when I was in Croatia. They looked interesting, but weren’t known for their reliability.
Makes sense considering that they were basically hammered together in a backroom workshop during the partial anarchic phase of a civil war. That thing certainly can't hold a candle to modern products of the Croatian firearm industry, like the HS Produkt VHS-2.
It's weird that they're known for unreliability as their so simple. Probably a mix of the gas porting and bolt weight.............and that recoil spring (that could have been fixed with a captive spring on a telescoping guide rod). It honestly could have been a very good gun with very small changes.
@@EllroyMcBong trust me, there were a lot of sketchy homemade sub guns used in that conflict. To some guys, it was a status symbol to have one.
@@misery13666 bolt timing and poor magazines will do it every time.
@@oskng Oh, ofcourse you would say that. Why do you Croatians still lie 30 years later about what happened? You know, there is a big difference between a war crime and defending your own country against invaders. Also, don't forget that your people accepted Hitler with open hands when he arrived in Zagreb. This is just sad, stop pretending.
Ian you have some awesome connections👍
I don't think he looks for them, they look for him.
I'm guessing the only reason for the hole in the case was that the case wasn't big enough.
almost looks to me like one owner who knew about the barrel extension put it in the case without the extension on, as it fits quite nicely. Then sold it to another owner who had no idea about it and tried to shove it into the case with the extension on.
Yo did you know rain is wet?
Evo komentar od Hrvata... Zanimljiv video gospodine Ian, inače pratim Vaše video uratke kad stignem pa mi je drago vidjeti kada imate hrvatsko oružje kao temu (Here is a comment from a Croatian...Interesting video mr. Ian, I usually follow your videos when I can so Im glad to see Croatian weapons being covered)
It's unrealistic to expect what is close to a private museum to allow you to shoot this particular Agram, but I'd be really interested to see how it handles with and without the suppressor. Maybe one of your viewers has one of these.
If one of his viewers has one of these, I’d be concerned about where he got it from
Yes, I'm imagining Ian trying to feel out a French government official on whether he can shoot their very illegal, very confiscated machine gun.
@@Fishlord136 Ask no questions and you'll hear no lies.
On the other hand... if anyone is ever going to be allowed to it's going to be Ian...
@@tgiskardify It looked like it had been fired, but not cleaned.
Remember reading about this one in polish Komandos magazine in 97 :)
Honestly I like the idea of having a system to be able to switch normal ammunition from super to subsonic. This feature should be adapted in modern firearm design.
That one screw holding front grip looks a whole lot like it was grabbed from the nearest hardware store...
then again that's probably to be expected from a gun with some of the markings removed.
But this thing still looks so _goddamn_ cool.
I mean yeah, they're Pozidriv. I bet those are just eastern European drywall screws. At least they had the decency to use Torx on the selector switch.
Thank you for all of the years of content Ian.
Suppressor unscrewing is very bad, that's why CZcams (or you?) covered it up?
A mini series of forgotten gangsta guns would be cool! 😎
i can only imagine the sort of colorful language that'd be uttered during the process of trying to compress that recoil spring
Now I know where this very specific far cry SMG is from
I think given the circumstances and time it was made, its not really that bad. A bit unrefined, but there's some potential there with them and something like a telescoping bolt would probably help a bit in terms of the springing things. Not thats likely to happen with the people involved!
Rather nice little close protection firearm actually and more accurate at under say, 30 metres than you may think. Any half decent shooter can put short bursts into a man-sized target at that range and that is all it was designed to do. Pretty much a silenced, 9mm Skorpian. If only the field strip issue wasn't there it would be quite a desirable piece for its intended role.
Now does its size compare to a Skorpion? If you have access to the info, muzzle velocity/bullet combo for silenced fire, and how picky is it ammo wise for suppressed operation.
Love the look of this subgun. It's very light & compact and fires from a closed bolt to keep the recoil down and make it more controlable. It looks inexpesive to make and had a polymer lower available to make it even cheaper. Give it a captive recoil spring and solve fighting the long recoil spring. Add a folding stock and it would appear to be a great little subgun.
The front of the Agram is absolutely _the P90 we have at home_ 😕
Word!
It came out before p90
Croatia was one of the first countries to adopt full-automatic pistol, it's name was "Ručni rad 1" in 1944. It was used by Croatian freedom fighters, terrorists and Croatian/Slovenian democratic revolutionaries.
He said the Zagreb part almost immediately
They could've used the receiver plug as the stock point. Make a stock that threads into the receiver and holds the recoil spring in, heck they could even affix the spring and guide rod into the stock to make assembly easier
😁👍😁👍😁👍 BTW Mirko means "little peace", "peacefull" or "peace maker" more or less.
Ian keeps harping on the lack of stock, but with two grips and a sling at the rear (as it's set up for), first-round accuracy can be just as good as with a wire stock. It obviously doesn't do as much for recoil as a stock would, but it helps a lot more than most people would think.
Really, using a sling to brace a gun seems to be a lost art with all the pistol braces out there.
I still use the SAS style single point sling stance with my bare tube ar pistol and can hit consistently out to 200 yards.
Like Justin referenced, the SAS-sling method was the first thing that popped into my head as the grips seem like made for pushing away from the body rather than pull towards the (non-existent) shoulder stock.
Techique matters a lot, like we found out in Ian's Trash-cannon video.
I spent three years in the war as a journalist and never once saw one of these. Croatian paramilitaries had Thompsons mostly. Also AKs. One of my favorite guns used in the war was a Slovenian machine pistol which fired .22 LR. It had a 750 round drum on top, a suppressor, and fired only bursts of 3. Very cool!
Just a neat old SMG -- looks like a lot of fun! +1 Like
I think it was clearly inspired by the Steyr TMP which came out right before this gun did in the late-1980s: no stock, front handle only, compact size, closed bolt. It's chunky by comparison to the TMP (1.3 KG), but it's not bad considering how crude it is in comparison to the TMP.
A good start to a super interesting series! Can't wait for the other videos at IRCGN! My favorite videos are when you do visits like these, or the interviews with Christian Prouteau. Keep up the amazing work Ian!
The plastic grips make this smg very aesthetically pleasing. In addition it's low weight and small profile would make it a practical choice.
I am originally from Croatia but live in Switzerland. In my village and all the villages around everyone has a Agram 2000, in a camo carry case. You can buy one for around 4-500 Dollars but they are not the best quality. So most people prefer Zastava Ak underfolders.
@@oskng trenutno zivim u svicarskoj, ali kuci sam u blizini bosankoj granice, i kod nas su dosta oruzije ostale iz vrjeme rata svako je sakrijo sta je bilo moguce i donejo iz bosne sta se moglo kupit. Znam kakva je situacija sada u nasoj domovini ali ima jos dosta sakrijeno.
Thank you Ian!! So excited to see you made a video on the most aesthetically pleasing SMG out there
After playing Sniper Elite 5, I think a cool gun to get a vid on would be the SREM-1. It's one of those wacky prototypes that never got adopted and I think there might only be 1 or 2 that got made of about 20 commissioned prototypes according to Jonathan Ferguson of Royal Armouries.
Funny you should mention this ;)
Please note that leaving some part of the bag opened with your hand into it is the way that the B&T's MP5 bag operates. No it's not completely crazy.
However the B&T bag is more discrete since you can't see the barrel's nose.
Man idk what it is but I just love the look of the Agram, it's just such a nice size, and it has that goofy yet cool thumbhole front grip, the polymer baseplates, so iconic. Honestly I'd want one if it had a stock, even if it is a fairly flimsy wire one, and maybe try to figure out some sort of captive recoil spring because, yeah that's just atrocious. Plus as far as "gangster guns" go, this one is definitely one of the better ones, and practical too, unlike... draco AKs *shudders*
It looks like something from Ghost in the Shell; I really wish they made a semi auto pistol version for export. It is even closed bolt.
Thanks
Did Ian do a Desk Pop off camera? That an interesting hole in the wall.
I'm surprised that flash hider has holes on the bottom. With the front grip so close to the end of the barrel that couldn't have been very comfortable to shoot.
Imagine they had a 2nd sleeve available that goes over the flash hider barrel sleeve which covers the bottom hole 😂
Strange how something so deadly can look so cute
(at some mall)
everyone: shopping, roaming around, food court noises, background sound of Agram 2000 in a Far cry 3 demo being played at a game store PS 3 kiosk
(at some mall service room)
Ian: reviews a very handy little submachine gun stored in a playstation console carry bag
Dude! I really like the design of this gun! A lot of really well-thought out details. I can't believe I'd probably never have heard of this gun if not for your channel. Thanks Ian!
Even the recoil spring issue seems like it wouldn't take that much modification to improve
I just love the bond movie henchman look of this thing.
If there is one thing Forgotten Weapons have taught me to appreciate, it is captive Springs.
Well I’m sold, switching my whole crime network over from tommies. That briefcase really did it for me
I've been long curious why we don't see more guns that use the recoil spring guide as a fixed ejector rod. That might have reduced the unsupported length of the recoil spring a useful amount as well as reducing one (albeit fixed) part.
Guide rods are usually fairly beefy but simple parts, even approaching the diameter of the casing itself, in a very simple form which is usually just a cut to length piece of stock (possibly turned to diameter) usually with simple machining on one end or both depending on style. To use a full diameter rod as the ejector would require a big hole on the face of the bolt and a large, unsupported section of the rim around it, substantially more than is actually needed to just eject the round. This also requires the action spring to be substantially behind the bolt face which is not ideal. For example, if you want the bolt to travel back an inch and a quarter before ejection then the guide rod must be at least an inch and a quarter back from the bolt face when firing. The rod would need to be in a hole large enough for the rod but small enough it does not let the spring through, and the rod would need to be started in the bolt already at that point, so the spring would actually be stopping about an inch and three eights or an inch and a half back from the bolt face. This is a substantial reduction in the length available for the spring. The spring will be compressed more, which it might not be able to do, so it will require a shorter spring, but it still needs to be strong enough to feed properly so it will need a stronger spring, which makes handling more difficult. If you reduce the diameter of the guide rod at the end to limit the issues caused by having an extra hole where you want solid metal then it makes the spring issue even worse since the spring will need the full diameter to keep it from bending in on itself, so the spring will need to be set back behind where the diameter reduces. The amount required to be reduced depends on the maximum amount of expected travel for the bolt, so if it is expected to travel two inches and ejection will begin at one and a quarter then you need at least three quarters of reduced rod to protrude from the bolt face, then more allowed for the reduced diameter on the bolt face so another eighth or so, meaning seven eighths of reduced diameter, so when assembled the spring would need to be seven eighths plus one and a quarter plus a little for stability back, so the spring would have to be set back at least two and an eighth inches back from where it normally could be. The length the spring can be in is reduced more than the travel of the bolt, that is huge and require heavy springs or a longer gun than necessary otherwise to allow for a longer spring. This all assumes the firing pin/striker design is such that having the recoil spring/action spring be in the same space somehow is not an issue. Compare this to the two most common forms of ejector; a fixed blade that requires only a narrow slit in the bolt and a sprung plunger that requires a small hole. The action spring can go nearly the full length of the bolt (which is quite a bit past the bolt face in common telescoping bolt designs) without interference allowing them to be as long (and easy to use) as possible and as small an area as possible is compromised on the bolt face to limit fouling/failures, all at the very low price of one to three parts.
pps43 used it. and gets almost no attention now. it was stupid simple and reliable.
Love the work you are doing Ian.
This thing is actually quite streamlined and frankly a beautiful gun. Too bad it’s not on the commercial market
I see the inspiration for the Locust submachine gun from Mass Effect 2.
Got to wonder what the barrel vent holes would do to the forward stock if someone fired this bare - with no barrel sleeve or suppressor installed.
I've always seen pictures of these guns. Finally have a video on this gun. Keep it up Ian, your the best.
So the gun comes with a silencer and a loudener?
Nice!
This gun is so 90s it's actual honest to G-d name is 2000.
It's basically Airwalks: The Gun.
Exactly what you would do with a 150 meter notch on an iron-sighted, stockless machine pistol, I really don't know... Miss, you would miss. A lot. And in full auto, miss a lot at very high rate of fire.
"Laying surpressing fire" 😋
You know a family is badass when their names are Mirko, Mirko, and Ivan lol
Pretty much ur the only dude I have 100% respect for in weapons videos, totally professional no look at me crap, all about weapons to the point. Thanks bro for your commitment 🇺🇸👍
I don't even get the case bit because if you unscrew the barrel extension it would easily fit in that case
Remember seeing this in 'Far Cry 3' and being taken aback by its design, very striking look.
Looks like someone put a tommy gun mp5 and p90 in one
10:54 but I’m sure a certain elbonian official would be more than happy to adopt it
It looks like the type of gun someone would rent for the day for an ad-hoc task.
ok now I want to see this at the range
this has always been a very aesthetically pleasing gun to me, thanks for the info.
You gotta admit that this gun has a comically large suppressor
It seems that way compared to the gun itself
@@stillenacht8518 yea
Plenty of volume to allow full auto suppression without risking blowing the can up from overpressure.
No.
No
Cheers Ian. Knew nothing about this gun. Thanks for the look at it.
I remember reading a news article here in the UK about 15 years ago that remarked on an increasing incidence of these guns being used in crime here. The article identified these guns as "A.2000s" and mentioned that they take Uzi mags - is this media hyperbole?
It's not hyperbole, they probably really thought like that. I mean, recently the president of the united states of america was talking about 300 rounds magazines. Yeah, those notorious, pesky 300 rounds magazines. At least they're not fully automatic clipazines, i guess.
0:54 I can see where the confusion came from. To be fair to them the average person on the street wouldn't give a rat's ass about rigorous nomenclature in any technical field, firearms included. We in this comment section are the exception, not the rule.
"Increase in gun crime in the UK" means it went from 0 to 1 incident over the last 12 months.
The Media got something wrong about guns? Perish the thought. Never let facts get in the way of The Agenda.
@@Narcan885 In my country, the media calls "machine gun" or "weapon of war" to any tactical/modern looking .22 rimfire carbine. All SMGs or similar guns are "Uzis" and all shotguns are "Ithacas".
Thank you , Ian .
Are we talking Croatian Crips or Balkan Bloods?
Assorted guys in black Adidas tracksuits.
I was wondering when Ian would cover this gun. Nice to finally see it on his channel.
Another interesting video ! Thanks from France ! 🇫🇷 😊
Definitely one of the coolest silhouettes
I held one in my hand there are a quite good number of them in Zagreb underground
But people dont carry guns here like in america
I would love to see Ian getting his hands on RT-20.
ИАН УБИЛ КРУГА?ВАТАФАК
I always loved the look of this model
This really takes several pages from the Tec-9. Single lug attachment, threaded rear endcap, long small diameter recoil spring with a guide rod fastened to another disc that must be compressed by the endcap, and I would bet the extractor is a simple single piece of formed spring steel retained in the bolt by a set screw. Like the Tec-9. Incidentally, if your Tec-9 is not running properly, it's overwhelmingly likely the problem will trace to the extractor not being set in the right position. Just make sure the claw surface is trued up, put a cartridge on the bolt face, push the extractor tight against the rim, and tighten the set screw firmly. Make sure it's tight periodically. If you still aren't flinging empty cases out vigorously, chamfer the inside corners of the extractor body to increase tension on the cartridge rim. Also remember to replace your recoil and striker springs every several thousand rounds.
Mom can we have MP5K tactical briefcase gun?
We have tactical briefcase gun at home, sinek.
Tactical briefcase gun at home:
It actually has a silencer and a loudener, I have to apologise to The Simpsons. 😂
when i heard Gangsters i think of Ingram (MAC 10,11) but this is Agram...
"The Agram 2000. You're all-purpose Getto Blaster."
A Croatian named Mirko hey? Why design a submachine gun when he can just kick everyone's heads into orbit?
I think the old Owner want a MP5k xD
The croatian improvement of the MP5k concept