Bob, Thank you for reviewing our book. We are glad you enjoyed it. It's exciting to reveal so many unseen items and let gamers everywhere be able to finally enjoy Dave's writings about his Blackmoor campaign for themselves. Griff
It reminds me of a story I hear about Trent Reznor (singer/songwriter for the band Nine Inch Nails). He was at a meeting, in Japan I believe, discussing licensing costs. When Reznor discovered how much his albums were being sold for, the record executives said something along the lines of ;"with such a strong fan base, you can charge then whatever you want and they will pay it." Reznor commented that this is really just abusing the audience that he had carefully cultivated over the years, and he had no interest in compromising their trust for money. It is the owners, at the end of the day, who decide how ethical they want to be. Our only decision is whether we want to support them.
I think you perfectly summed up the two different approaches. One looks impressive, but lacks delivery on it's promises. The other is less impressive, but delivers where it counts. Pretty much the difference between whatever D&D is now and the OSR, or other indy-publishers.
I wrote the Blackmoor book. I wanted to get all the new finds out there as fast as possible. Anyone can now analyze and write a paper on one of the new writings I dubbed the Fletcher Sagas. It's real time D&D research.
@@retrodmray Thanks for the compliment. We work hard to be accurate in our work. We still screw it up sometimes. Half of our documentary is now on youtube at the Informal Game channel if you have not seen that yet.
I prefer the book without the dust jacket. The ampersand on the actual book cover is the TSR-era one from the 80s and 90s, the one I grew up with, the one tattooed on my shoulder. The dust jacket ampersand is the 2014+ WoTC version. Neither is period correct for D&D '74, but the TSR-era one is at least closer.
Slaying the Dragon: A secret history of Dungeons & Dragons by Ben Riggs is a good history book for DnD also. He does tons of interviews with original TSR employees and does a good job of staying non-bias and getting all sides of the crazy stories from the early days. It's very informative and well done. The history of DnD is truly wild.
@@sentientwaffle535Thank you waffle I'll check it out I enjoy those kind of channels. Captcorajus is another one he goes over and reviews all the 1st/2nd edition modules it's fun for nostalgia and some history.
That's for certain! I learned to play with BECMI, and you definitely have to respect Old School scenarios (and keep a lot of spare character sheets), because they can be wonderfully brutal.
Recommend Shannon Applecline's series "Designer's and Dragons" -- he covers the history of TSR more from a product perspective. Read the section on TSR like 5 times!
Two books that a librarian would catalogue next to each other. Yet apart from that each could not be more different. Each will have their buyers, but I suspect seldom will the same person buy both.
I wish that the WotC book had not included the OD&D books (as they are available in PDF form at DriveThru) and had been cheaper -- book should be a $60 book -- not a $100 book. Is a bit of a cash grab IMO.
I LOVE the OD&D 1970-1977 book. Got it for my birthday, and it’s just so well made. Admittedly I’m a sucker for high quality prints and all those silly bookmarks. :) But seeing the type-written notes for proto-D&D with the notes and corrections from both Gygax and Arneson was super cool. Half the book is just reprints of old books I already own, but having it all compiled in such a lovely format along with the new historical tidbits definitely made it worthwhile to me. :)
Nope, I really am a cataloger... More to the point, among other duties I supervise our library's marking unit, which means I occasionally have to deal with putting clear wrappers over the dust jacket. The things are never cut straight, and the plastic itself is annoying to work with. A book with a jacket takes at least five times longer to mark in preparation for circulation than one that doesn't.
@@capi3101 I used to work at my local library & I love reading as well as own a ton of books. I used packing tape to keep the dust covers on many of my books & it improves their longevity/water resistance.
Appreciate the review on the Blackmoor book, picking that up. I like the big D&D book because it's a nice big "coffee table" book for D&D nerds. I did buy it knowing it contained a lot of the "out of print" stuff, but I was fine with it. But yeah, some might not otherwise realize it.
It is more complicated than that. I consider the materials in the book to be setting worthy because the hard core Blackmoor players are very devoted home brewers. They all talk to each other and share material. As there is little real Arneson material out there, this new book is going to set their hair on fire. I expect many will be reverse engineering the Fletcher Sagas in order to extract new adventures. I was using the mimeo map in my own campaign and will be switching to the isometric maps. A lot of people want to use the Outdoor Survival map. There is a hand drawn OS map in Blackmoor Foundations that was done by Arneson for his own campaign. I expect a lot of gamers are going to start using that for Blackmoor spin off campaigns using OD&D. Yet, all the ephemera in the book is also of a historical nature. Since Arneson created most of these works in the book, with the exception of a few redrawn items by Ken Fletcher, I would be remiss in not working closely with his family in order to publish. I do this out of respect for them and Dave's legacy.
2:58 I’m not sure if the book acknowledges it but that dragon is clearly traced from Pauline Baynes’ famous art from The Voyage of the Dawn Treader in the Chronicles of Narnia, namely Eustace Scrubb having been turned into a dragon. Of course, early DND was full of art and other things being lifted from famous sources but it’s kind of neat to see an example of early Narnia influence on DND.
If it’s not mentioned there, I bet it’s in Art and Arcana which looked at the history of D&D’s art. A lot of it was traced from sources as disparate as comics and pornography.
I'm not going to lie, I was a bit disappointed in the Dungeons & Dragons - the Making of Original D&D: 1970-1977 book. Sure, it's great for collectors (myself included) but I honestly wanted "More" info surrounding these. Like you said, anyone can get the prints from DriveThru RPG, but I was sort of expecting "more" on the history, than just pages filled with prints of the rules. Like someone said before, for good overall history, Slaying the Dragon: A secret history of Dungeons & Dragons by Ben Riggs is a better choice if you're looking for some more history.
The Guidon draft of D&D is out there and being shared. If you go to ODD74 forum a lot of what is in the WOTC book has been discussed there and can be searched for. The Acaeum site (sp?) has a lot of those things as well. Of course, as I am the director of Secrets of Blackmoor, my advice is to go watch the first half for free here on youtube.
It sounds like this is a collection of primary sources rather than a historical argument, which hopefully means we will get a lot of good work soon using this book. I wish Bob would have looked more closely at the reprints. That printing of Chainmail looks like the 2nd edition which means it may have the balrog in it and I wonder if WotC worked out a deal with the Tolkien estate to allow republication of the earlier copyright-violating rule sets, which are not up on drivethrurpg. It would also explain why supplement IV would not be included since WotC would have to wrestle with whoever owns Conan now and Michael Moorcock.
Actually, this big book despite having lots of reprints sounds fantastic to me. Depending on the cost, it is often way better to have multiple things in 1 big book rather than higher quantity individual books. You are less likely to lose stuff & depending on how it's organized especially with an index it is easier to find the information you are looking for.
One other advantage on "The Making of Original D&D" is that I would bet that can be used for 1d6 Bludgeoning damage. Never discount the power of the written word upside you opponents head.
I have the Big Red Book, I had not yet heard about the Blackmoor book. I look forward to scoring it now. I didn't find the BRB to be useless or anything. I really enjoyed having the manuscripts and typewritten notes all in one place. I do agree the reprints of the OG books are available elsewhere, and would probably have done better as a softcover omnibus reprint, kinda like the ones floating around out there for Classic Traveller, but for people who honestly haven't ever seen the originals before, maybe new players who weren't even born when 3.x was a thing, this book could inspire them to dig deeper. I will agree with a poster below, the books by Ben Riggs, Shannon Applecline, and Jon Peterson are all excellent sources for the sorts of things that didn't make it into the BRB.
Thank you for this helpful comparative review, Bob! I really appreciate your channel for its useful material and positive tone. It was great to get to see and hear you live (together with Seth S, Justin, and so many others) at your recent Gen Con “Hack With Impunity!” Panel. Hope that you guys will get together again next year and do a panel again!
"Monsters, Aliens and a hole in the ground" by Stu Horvat is a beautiful and really fun and interesting book going through the history of all kinds of RPGs
I have the Art and Arcana book and I thought it did a pretty good job covering the history of d&d. Not sure how much was never before seen in it but it was cool to get an overview and that book does look great.
I love all the videos Bob, keep up the great work! I just want to echo the other recommendations for Ben Riggs's book Slaying the Dragon: A Secret History of Dungeons & Dragons from 2022. His book touches on some of the early days of D&D but really dives in and talked about TSR and the Lorraine Williams era. The scope of people he was able to interview was really impressive, and his Twitter feed has really interesting sales charts of 2E D&D suppliments.
I'm curious if they didn't include original scans for "Gods, Demi-Gods & Heroes" because the Conan and Elric mythos are in the booklet. The copy you can get off DriveThru is the rerelease that has those mythos edited out
I pre-ordered the "Making of" book and have been very happy with it. Sure, I've seen a lot of this material before, but having it all in one place along with a ton of stuff I hadn't seen, was worth the price to me. The fact that the book is simply gorgeous is just the icing on the cake. I hadn't heard about the Blackmoor book, but I plan on picking it up soon. I've always wanted to learn more about Blackmoor and it looks like a fun read.
Any history of D&D that doesn't mention Dr. J. Eric Holmes version of D&D loses my respect. The Gygax presentation of OD&D and AD&D is/was nearly impenetrable. It was the Dr. Holmes written/edited version that I was actually able to read and understand. It started my own my lifelong love of gaming.
I have a fondness for Holmes Basic as it was the first TTRPG I ever owned and DMed (OD&D was the first TTRPG I ever played) -- however I also have a fondness for AD&D 1e -- as it is the game I played the longest and more frequently than any other TTRPG. All three of them are masterpieces in different ways.
@@quantus5875 I am back to pondering if I want to do OD&D with supplements, or pure OD&D, or with Holmes. Supplements is like AD&D but better organized. The simplicity of the old rules makes speed of play amazing. I like that 'let's get things done' feel to it.
Its fun how much myth and discussion is about the origin story of things that there are live memory of its beginnings :P like, for real people, it was a decentralized phenomenan, you can find hard evidence for published things. but its all a lot more blurred than that :P
I bought the Moldvay boxed set and consumed it one weekend in the early 80s, and never looked back! It was weird, it wasn’t the most user friendly, but….it was very possible to learn it!
I might be wrong but I think Chris Perkins mentioned the real world being a part of the D&D universe, it's interesting to see Dave Arneson had a similar idea but inverse of it where he would be part of the fantasy world
Lots of people have played with that idea. Ed Greenwood wrote a column called "Wizards Three" in Dragon magazine, where wizards from different settings would come to Earth from different D&D settings and have meetings in his living room.
Yeah the WOTC book more a coffee-table book than an actual book of information and history. I mean, that's okay. As long as you know what you're buying.
Yes, great video!! Yeah -- wish the WotC book (like you said) had not included the OD&D rules (like you said - PDF available at DriveThru for $10) and was more like $60 dollars instead of $99 -- a bit of a cash grab IMO. I think people are super interested in the history of D&D will still buy this book -- but I think for everyone else -- it's a super expensive book for what it is.
The Thangorodrim material can be found through links on the ODD74 forum. I just did a google search for: Thangorodrim odd74 Boom, I hit a lot of links to discussions.
I’m pretty disappointed with what WotC has done for D&D’s 50th anniversary. I have a bunch of stuff from 1999 when a handful of silver editions and Return to adventures were released, which I remember young me enjoying. The fiftieth anniversary rolls around and Hasbro puts out a single coffee table book, which I don’t regret breaking my no Hasbro purchases rule for, but that’s it???
Dave Arneson and his group are the fathers of D&D!! Gygax just packed and sold it. Also Griffith Morgan! Yes!! Secrets of Blackmoor is worth a watch for everyone who wants to know the history of TTRPG’s!!
Arneson may have had rhe idea, but Gygax did all the work. Arneson couldn't type and was slacking off most his time at TSR. Arneson really didn't like dnd He wanted a naval themed game and perfered to paint minis. Everyone else had to do his work, or recopy his sticky notes. Gygax tried to protect him but when he was caught taking the company car to slack off while Gygax was put of town, the Blumes fired him.
@@jaysw9585 where did you get this alternative history? You can bootlick Gygax all you want. Arneson showed him what role playing was and they communicated and wrote everything. Gugax hardly did all the work. Gygax was a better business man and Arneson just wanted to play….but he believed in D&D but Gygax was shifty and cut him out with Advanced Dungeons and Dragons but BECMI contractually had to be finished. But his usurping for control worked. He was a sheisty dude who believed in biological determinism-he sorta sucked. He also got sent to California and did a bunch of blow and hung out with people on the back of D&D. Typical poopy capitalism stuff. The Blume’s essentially ruined TSR and fired Gygax as well via selling their shares to Lorraine Williams at the end of it all.
@thomaskiser3886 First, Gygax didn't run the business, the Blume brothers did. Gygax sucked at business. It's the reason he lost TSR and bought out. Gygax was a writer editor. Gygax was writing game rules for Chainmail and other war games long before Arneson came along. That's how they met because Arneson was in the convention circuit that Gygax was running in Lake Geneva Wisonson. Arneson was the president of his schools war gaming club. It wasn't even Arneson that came up with the idea to play a single character. That was one of his college buddies who thought of it and ran the first game for Gygax. Arneson was a 20-year college kid in a history major, specializing in naval warfare. Arnesons only job was working a ticket booth at the local fair. Gygax was in his 30s, married with kids, working as a shoe repairman to make ends meet while spending all his free time writing game for Avalone Hill and working on DnD. It was Gygax that invited Arneson to Wisconson to start the business. Arneson was notoriously lazy. Other writers were constantly complaining about his poorly written notes, and Gygax had to constantly retype his work. The Blumes fired him after he was caught using the company car to drive home and sleep on company time. Gygax wasn't even there when it happened. Arneson was then fired from the next three game companies he worked at for missing deadlines by monthes and turning in shobby work. Hate Gygax all you want, by all accounts he was a diva, but don't pretend that Arneson is somehow the hero, because he wasn't. Everyone at TSR worked their asses off, not just Gygax, and Arneson wasn't pulling his weight. No one liked working with Arneson.
@thomaskiser3886 Also, arneson barely wrote anything. Gygax produced more than 500 times more work than Arneson both before and after DnD. Not liking Gygax is fine, but acknowledge he did nearly all the writing. That recognition he deserves. Gygax was a prolific writer that in addition to the 3 ADnD books, wrote all the 1e suppliments, most the 1e adventures, wrote majority of the articles in Dragon Magazine, and wrote an entire novel series. Arneson wrote a poorly written Blackmoore setting that doesn't even take up the full 100-page book that just got published.
@@jaysw9585 Sure, Gygax wrote a lot-he loved writing and basking in the limelight. He may have penned some of the most iconic AD&D adventures that many people fondly remember, but claiming he wrote "almost all" the 1e adventures is a stretch. Out of the 96 coded AD&D adventures, Gygax was involved in 26, which is about 28% of them. I, unlike some, appreciate Gygax’s quirky writing and the adventures he created. However, it’s important to acknowledge that he wasn’t the sole architect of D&D and took more credit than he deserved, especially from Dave Arneson. Gygax did package the game and bring it to the masses, but it's also true that he had his flaws. He was a biological determinist and a capitalist who didn’t shy away from taking more than his fair share of the spotlight. Whether it was downplaying Arneson’s contributions or his behavior during his time in California, Gygax was far from a saint. Arneson, who did much of the heavy lifting in creating the foundations of D&D, invited Gygax to play in his Blackmoor campaign, which heavily influenced Greyhawk. It's similar to how Ray Kroc didn’t invent McDonald’s-he just capitalized on it. Gygax was a dedicated wargamer with a sharp business acumen, and he worked hard, but that doesn't mean we should overlook the contributions of others or the flaws in his legacy.
Looks interesting. Mainly curious if the curators of the books included personal political statements posed as disclaimers regarding the 'racism' of the 1970's authors?
@@morrigankasa570 We chose 70 pound paper for the Blackmoor Foundations book. It means the book costs more to print, but we felt it made the product better. The Lost Dungeons of Tonisborg hard bounds we've published were 70 pound archival paper which cost even more, but we wanted to make sure the books would last. During Covid times we couldn't source 70 pound paper. Instead of down grading we bumped up to 80 pound paper and our company ate the extra expense. It's getting harder and harder to make quality books here in the USA. The craftsmanship is a dying art. The bindery we use assembles everything by hand. Sadly their experienced stitcher was very old and he passed away. It's a huge loss in terms of acquired knowledge. We really want to keep making quality products, but the market seems to dictate using cheaper machine made print on demand. Or, cheap printing in China.
I was at a panel on the history of D&D at Gencon, where Jon Peterson said the Making of Original D&D was less about a historical narrative and uncovering new, previously unknown information, and more about sharing historical documents with a wider audience, with a little bit of historical context for each document. I think maybe a different title would have set better expectations for what the book actually ended up being. And the presentation was beautiful, which I think is important because that's the main thing the book brings to the table. It is more convenient to have all these documents in one book rather than gathering multiple PDFS and having to contact the National Archives.
Half of Secrets of Blackmoor is up on the Informal Game channel if you want to see the decade before D&D came into existence. The entire movie is over 2 hours long and can be found on The Fellowship of the Thing website.
Personally the books fall into, pretty cool Christmas gifts, but I don't know how much they speak to me. Would have been great resources when I was in college writing history papers about DND
Okay... sorry... but no. The first sentence you read from the back of the book... D&D is NOT a hobby! Tabletop Roleplaying games is a hobby! D&D ist just ONE of those games. Really, that's the one thing that really makes me mad somehow, when "D&D" is used synonymous for "ttrpg". It's just _one_ freaking game. Not on you Bob, but I needed to call that out.
it's just kinda hard, because if you're talking to anyone outside of the hobby, the only way they'll know what you're talking about is if you call it DnD. Same thing if you move to a new area and you're doing internet searches for any groups. :/
@@ingetamna that's sad enough and also why I don't do it. It's nothing wrong with mentioning D&D, I just don't like to present it as if it was what I do. Apart from that I really don't play D&D. 😀 I tell them I play fantasy roleplaying games and then explain that it's like telling a story together. Most people who never heard about it, whom you tell you play D&D instead, still don't have a clue what you're talking about and most likely associate it with the few things they saw. You know, the embarrassing stuff. It's for kids, it's a cult (I hope that one died), what the kids in stranger things play (grrreeat playing examples...), wasn't there a movie? Isn't that a computer game?...
This is a shovel and they say you can use it to shovel stuff but most of it is just a stick which you can get in the woods for free, so if all you need is a stick, I can't really suggest you get their shovel unless you need to shovel stuff. Seems legit.
I really wish WotC had, you know, _actually talked about the history_ instead of spending a page and a half talking about how "ist" TSR's original members were and pretending like they're so much more righteous now. "We had to fix Gary's mistakes"... This whole industry wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for Gary and the rest. I hope the rumored legal actions from Rob Kuntz over the defamatory remarks WotC made about D&D's creators come to fruition. Everyone should buy the Blackmoor book, if you can, it's by people who were actually there at the start of it all, unlike these WotC clowns.
I would agree. I am a history nerd. I read a lot of histories. I've never seen a take down like it in a book purporting to be a history on something. You probably can't find a book about Vlad Dracul with a commentary of the kind on it. Vlad Dracul was responsible for the brutal torture and murder of countless people. I think WOTC made a poor decision to add that content.
@@tasty_wind4294 I really do not think you are being fair to Bob. If all he wanted was cash, he would not have reviewed our book by a tiny publishing house with no money. I even told him to feel free and be critical of anything he see's in the book. I wish more high profile youtube shows would review small publisher material in this way.
I have to wonder if you read the book. There is a two page preface for the book and a two page forward after that. The majority of both is devoted to praising D&D's influence and importance in culture, all of which they attribute to Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson. There are a few paragraphs devoted to problematic content but never criticizing Gygax or Arneson personally, just saying that some of the content they wrote was problematic and doesn't represent the current values of the D&D community- which is true and makes sense to say.
Sure, a lot of that content may be available elsewhere, but having it collected in 1 place in print is nice. I certainly don't have most of them. That said... I won't be getting it. A model-A Ford is interesting and I respect it, but I don't want to drive one. ;)
I'm surprised Wotc has shown restraint with not bashing Gary Gygax. They have been trying to distance themselves from him. Unless in the book they did, i dont own it.
@@thomaschapman6530 A bit of an exaggeration. There's a preface and a forward, both of which are extremely positive about D&D and its creators. There are a few paragraphs in each about flaws that the original documents had, such as sexism, cultural appropriation, and slurs. Nothing personally criticizes Gygax or Arneson, they just say that some of the stuff they wrote is offensive and doesn't represent D&D's current values, which is true and makes sense to say. It's not just sensitivity concerns they mention, either, they also mention the copyright infringement committed by those early versions of D&D. It's ok to have nuance and admit some of the older content is flawed without trying to demonize it or its creators and that's what the book does in my opinion.
OMG Bob, you are horrible at shilling! Did you miss the shill for WotC meeting? You need to edit out all that talk about getting most of the book elsewhere. C’mon, Bob. Get your shill together, man.
I would be cautious promoting anything by the Secrets of Blackmoor guy. He's known to make a lot of hateful comments online and hide his bigotry behind "old school" despite it being pretty obvious
The DEI inclusion is nauseating. No, I don't have trouble with DEI. I LIKE DEI. But I loathe revisionist history and I despise fakery. Hasbro and Wotc don't give a damn about me, or anything to do with DEI. It's just part of their ambition to take money from anyone. They just want the money. I was there when the game began. No one felt the game was sexist or anything else. It was a game for nerds by nerds. Sexist is the last thing a nerd ever was. I have a super jock brother (that was him in highschool) and a stunning blonde sister (that was her in highdschool). And I was the odd one. Didn't play sports, was into the military, read a lot of science, and sure didn't fit in. I played rolegames. The only reason no one hassled MY gang of friends at school, was we were all hawks as well as nerds. This book is likely an over priced pile of pages most of us already possess. And probably won't interest anyone playing 5th. I doubt it will sell well. I'm not paying 100 bucks for it. There's no sign of a pdf yet, and I doubt I'd want it free.
Good news: It's not revisionist history! They reprinted the supposedly offensive material exactly as-is! All they did was include an short acknowledgement in the preface and forward that some of the reprinted material includes remarks that disparage women, make light of slavery, or other things that might be offensive, and that they, the people making this book, don't agree with those remarks but are reprinting them anyway. That's it. That's the extent of what you call "nauseating DEI inclusion". That's what they clickbait outrage machine has told you is a horrible slap in the face to Gygax and anyone who likes the game he made. It's not an attack on Gary Gygax or Dave Arneson or Rob Kuntz or any of the people who worked on early D&D. It's CERTAINLY not an attack on you, who enjoyed the game they created. The people who wrote this book also love D&D despite its flaws. *Criticism of a thing you like is not an attack.*
WOTC is terrified that the people who invented D&D could be normal people who may reflect the society they live in at that time. if you lived in the 70's those perspectives would have been normal for at least half of society. It's a natural progression for something to merely become a commodity as well, thus no more By Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson on the covers, it's just the branding. Most people are not aware who invented Monopoly, or Clue, or Risk, much less the name of who first owned McDonalds. I always buy games made by gamers for gamers. I like to feel connected to the designers of the games I purchase and often I can just email them and they are glad to chat back.
When you receive free product from a company to talk about, YOU are sponsored, not the video. You are using manipulative language. You are legally liable for that lie. I do hope someone sues you for doing this. We are not all idiots Bob
I sent Bob the Blackmoor Foundations book to review. I told him in an email to feel free to be critical of it. As an example he questions whether or not it is a setting book. I think it is because Blackmoor fans want to use old maps and sources to home brew the setting. He felt it wasn't a setting book because it does not offer a A to B to D, WOTC style adventure. Fair enough. His comments on the WOTC book are the usual Bob being mellow kind of statements, but he is actually kind of harshing on it. He points out how most of what is in the book can be found either free, or as a PDF for very little cash. Bob is just not a confrontational kind of guy. Yet, he does criticize both books for different reasons. I appreciate his criticism, but I think the Blackmoor book is an ideal jump start for a Blackmoor campaign as the materials are new to the gaming community.
only 4 ribbons ?!?!?!! They missed the opportunity to have 1 ribbon per Chromatic Dragon (facepalm)
😂😂😂
Haha maybe in the next 50 years
At least they are different colors
😂
You are asking too much. They can't figure out simple rules...
Bob,
Thank you for reviewing our book. We are glad you enjoyed it.
It's exciting to reveal so many unseen items and let gamers everywhere be able to finally enjoy Dave's writings about his Blackmoor campaign for themselves.
Griff
What?!? WotC overcharging for material people can get for much less somewhere else? I'm shocked. Shocked, I say.
"Your winnings, sir!"
-the one psychopath who stitched together a pdf of 5.5e using nothing but a series of screencaps from youtube videos
It reminds me of a story I hear about Trent Reznor (singer/songwriter for the band Nine Inch Nails). He was at a meeting, in Japan I believe, discussing licensing costs. When Reznor discovered how much his albums were being sold for, the record executives said something along the lines of ;"with such a strong fan base, you can charge then whatever you want and they will pay it." Reznor commented that this is really just abusing the audience that he had carefully cultivated over the years, and he had no interest in compromising their trust for money. It is the owners, at the end of the day, who decide how ethical they want to be. Our only decision is whether we want to support them.
@@pranakhanI love that he l released a few albums under Creative Commons, I've used some of his Ghosts tracks for some horror narrations.
I think you perfectly summed up the two different approaches. One looks impressive, but lacks delivery on it's promises. The other is less impressive, but delivers where it counts. Pretty much the difference between whatever D&D is now and the OSR, or other indy-publishers.
I wrote the Blackmoor book.
I wanted to get all the new finds out there as fast as possible. Anyone can now analyze and write a paper on one of the new writings I dubbed the Fletcher Sagas.
It's real time D&D research.
And yours is the most accurate, caring, and best one, compared to whatever that WOTC trash can be called! @@griffithmorgan4966
@@retrodmray Thanks for the compliment.
We work hard to be accurate in our work. We still screw it up sometimes.
Half of our documentary is now on youtube at the Informal Game channel if you have not seen that yet.
It’s a dust jacket, it keeps the dust off!
+
Valid point!
Also keeps some water off
and crumbs! @@Seth9809
I prefer the book without the dust jacket. The ampersand on the actual book cover is the TSR-era one from the 80s and 90s, the one I grew up with, the one tattooed on my shoulder. The dust jacket ampersand is the 2014+ WoTC version. Neither is period correct for D&D '74, but the TSR-era one is at least closer.
Slaying the Dragon: A secret history of Dungeons & Dragons by Ben Riggs is a good history book for DnD also. He does tons of interviews with original TSR employees and does a good job of staying non-bias and getting all sides of the crazy stories from the early days. It's very informative and well done. The history of DnD is truly wild.
I’d also highly recommend the youtube channel “Daddy Rolled a 1”, who uses a ton of solid sources to make videos about all sorts of old dnd history
Slaying the dragon is in fact a great read.
Thanks for the recommendation!
@@sentientwaffle535Thank you waffle I'll check it out I enjoy those kind of channels. Captcorajus is another one he goes over and reviews all the 1st/2nd edition modules it's fun for nostalgia and some history.
Yup. Of all the 'histories' of the game, I found that one to be the best...
You've opened the book on camera 3 times...
You have summoned the Pinkertons
I actually obtained the PDF for the OD&D Blackmoor supplement just yesterday. I now want to run Temple of the Frog.
Wow! I have no idea what that adventure is, but now I want to run it, too. 😆🙌🏻
Just downloaded Temple of the Frog from my PDF subscription service. Definitely looks worth playing!
It requires a different kind of approach for players.
Err, nobody just walks into the Temple of the Frog. 😂
That's for certain! I learned to play with BECMI, and you definitely have to respect Old School scenarios (and keep a lot of spare character sheets), because they can be wonderfully brutal.
When We Were Wizards is a good podcast about the origins of TSR. Highly recommended.
I keep hearing recommendations for this! I'll have to give it a listen
I came here to say the same, just finished listening and it was really interesting
@@ShannonFerguson Noted. Thanks for the info.
Recommend Shannon Applecline's series "Designer's and Dragons" -- he covers the history of TSR more from a product perspective. Read the section on TSR like 5 times!
You really should give it a listen. It's so well done!@@BobWorldBuilder
Two books that a librarian would catalogue next to each other.
Yet apart from that each could not be more different.
Each will have their buyers, but I suspect seldom will the same person buy both.
I wish that the WotC book had not included the OD&D books (as they are available in PDF form at DriveThru) and had been cheaper -- book should be a $60 book -- not a $100 book. Is a bit of a cash grab IMO.
I LOVE the OD&D 1970-1977 book. Got it for my birthday, and it’s just so well made. Admittedly I’m a sucker for high quality prints and all those silly bookmarks. :) But seeing the type-written notes for proto-D&D with the notes and corrections from both Gygax and Arneson was super cool. Half the book is just reprints of old books I already own, but having it all compiled in such a lovely format along with the new historical tidbits definitely made it worthwhile to me. :)
Exactly
As a librarian and cataloger, I agree: dust jackets are the worst. Bane of my existence…
Sarcasm?
Nope, I really am a cataloger...
More to the point, among other duties I supervise our library's marking unit, which means I occasionally have to deal with putting clear wrappers over the dust jacket. The things are never cut straight, and the plastic itself is annoying to work with. A book with a jacket takes at least five times longer to mark in preparation for circulation than one that doesn't.
@@capi3101 I used to work at my local library & I love reading as well as own a ton of books. I used packing tape to keep the dust covers on many of my books & it improves their longevity/water resistance.
I appreciate the solidarity on this haha
Appreciate the review on the Blackmoor book, picking that up. I like the big D&D book because it's a nice big "coffee table" book for D&D nerds. I did buy it knowing it contained a lot of the "out of print" stuff, but I was fine with it. But yeah, some might not otherwise realize it.
Well-researched review! Thanks, I love your dedication!
Thanks!
"An Official BLACKMOOR Setting" because the Estate's trademark only applies to "Role playing game equipment in the nature of game book manuals"
It is more complicated than that.
I consider the materials in the book to be setting worthy because the hard core Blackmoor players are very devoted home brewers. They all talk to each other and share material. As there is little real Arneson material out there, this new book is going to set their hair on fire. I expect many will be reverse engineering the Fletcher Sagas in order to extract new adventures.
I was using the mimeo map in my own campaign and will be switching to the isometric maps.
A lot of people want to use the Outdoor Survival map. There is a hand drawn OS map in Blackmoor Foundations that was done by Arneson for his own campaign. I expect a lot of gamers are going to start using that for Blackmoor spin off campaigns using OD&D.
Yet, all the ephemera in the book is also of a historical nature.
Since Arneson created most of these works in the book, with the exception of a few redrawn items by Ken Fletcher, I would be remiss in not working closely with his family in order to publish. I do this out of respect for them and Dave's legacy.
"Marginalia" could be a cool character name as well :)
Not a main character, but one who provides background and context to the campaign. *rolls knowledge(history)*
Some of Sergio Aragornes’ best work was marginalia
True!
Oddly enough, I had a character named Effluvia - It was never very popular with the rest of the party.
I imagine a fun Diviner NPC, familiar, or even a ghost, that offers exposition at awkward moments of a game
2:58 I’m not sure if the book acknowledges it but that dragon is clearly traced from Pauline Baynes’ famous art from The Voyage of the Dawn Treader in the Chronicles of Narnia, namely Eustace Scrubb having been turned into a dragon. Of course, early DND was full of art and other things being lifted from famous sources but it’s kind of neat to see an example of early Narnia influence on DND.
I was looking to see if anyone noticed this! Very curious how that piece got in there, exactly.
ooh, is THAT why he looked so familiar!?
I noticed that too.
And Thangorodrim is latter for letter right out of Tolkien.
If it’s not mentioned there, I bet it’s in Art and Arcana which looked at the history of D&D’s art. A lot of it was traced from sources as disparate as comics and pornography.
The Blackmoor book is definitely on my radar. The WOTC book not so much.
Same here
I'm not going to lie, I was a bit disappointed in the Dungeons & Dragons - the Making of Original D&D: 1970-1977 book. Sure, it's great for collectors (myself included) but I honestly wanted "More" info surrounding these. Like you said, anyone can get the prints from DriveThru RPG, but I was sort of expecting "more" on the history, than just pages filled with prints of the rules. Like someone said before, for good overall history, Slaying the Dragon: A secret history of Dungeons & Dragons by Ben Riggs is a better choice if you're looking for some more history.
Yep. For a soft recommendation, years ago I read 'Of Dice & Men' (pretty sure that was the title), and really enjoyed it at the time.
@@BobWorldBuilder I actually have that... It's currently sitting on my night stand waiting for me to flip it open again.
The Guidon draft of D&D is out there and being shared.
If you go to ODD74 forum a lot of what is in the WOTC book has been discussed there and can be searched for. The Acaeum site (sp?) has a lot of those things as well.
Of course, as I am the director of Secrets of Blackmoor, my advice is to go watch the first half for free here on youtube.
It sounds like this is a collection of primary sources rather than a historical argument, which hopefully means we will get a lot of good work soon using this book. I wish Bob would have looked more closely at the reprints. That printing of Chainmail looks like the 2nd edition which means it may have the balrog in it and I wonder if WotC worked out a deal with the Tolkien estate to allow republication of the earlier copyright-violating rule sets, which are not up on drivethrurpg. It would also explain why supplement IV would not be included since WotC would have to wrestle with whoever owns Conan now and Michael Moorcock.
Actually, this big book despite having lots of reprints sounds fantastic to me. Depending on the cost, it is often way better to have multiple things in 1 big book rather than higher quantity individual books. You are less likely to lose stuff & depending on how it's organized especially with an index it is easier to find the information you are looking for.
Great summation, Bob. Thank you!🙏
Thanks for watching, Dave! :)
Anyone else recognize the crying dragon art from The Voyage of The Dawntreader book?
Wow Bob really packed more history into a 10 minute video than the History Channel does in a day's worth of broadcasting! IMPRESSIVE!
One other advantage on "The Making of Original D&D" is that I would bet that can be used for 1d6 Bludgeoning damage. Never discount the power of the written word upside you opponents head.
I have the Big Red Book, I had not yet heard about the Blackmoor book. I look forward to scoring it now.
I didn't find the BRB to be useless or anything. I really enjoyed having the manuscripts and typewritten notes all in one place. I do agree the reprints of the OG books are available elsewhere, and would probably have done better as a softcover omnibus reprint, kinda like the ones floating around out there for Classic Traveller, but for people who honestly haven't ever seen the originals before, maybe new players who weren't even born when 3.x was a thing, this book could inspire them to dig deeper.
I will agree with a poster below, the books by Ben Riggs, Shannon Applecline, and Jon Peterson are all excellent sources for the sorts of things that didn't make it into the BRB.
Thank you for this helpful comparative review, Bob! I really appreciate your channel for its useful material and positive tone. It was great to get to see and hear you live (together with Seth S, Justin, and so many others) at your recent Gen Con “Hack With Impunity!” Panel. Hope that you guys will get together again next year and do a panel again!
"Monsters, Aliens and a hole in the ground" by Stu Horvat is a beautiful and really fun and interesting book going through the history of all kinds of RPGs
Another vote for this one ☝️
I have the Art and Arcana book and I thought it did a pretty good job covering the history of d&d. Not sure how much was never before seen in it but it was cool to get an overview and that book does look great.
@@adhdd4169 That really was an excellent book. Seeing the artistic growth of the D&D brand in one big book was perfectly done.
@@NmDPlm31 it also included my favorite setting and artist (planescape and DiTerrlizzi) so I was extra happy.
lol, I wore that shirt yesterday. Hope to see ya there this year!
I will be there!
Love the approach of covering a good book along with the corporate slop that will drive the algorithm. Super smart.
It seems like a great format.
Here is the sludge - now here is the unknown stuff made by gamers for gamers.
Seems cool! I also share your disdain for dust jackets.
Very interesting. I will give WOTC credit on presentation: the book looks beautifully done.
Thanks Bob.
I love all the videos Bob, keep up the great work! I just want to echo the other recommendations for Ben Riggs's book Slaying the Dragon: A Secret History of Dungeons & Dragons from 2022. His book touches on some of the early days of D&D but really dives in and talked about TSR and the Lorraine Williams era. The scope of people he was able to interview was really impressive, and his Twitter feed has really interesting sales charts of 2E D&D suppliments.
Thanks for the recommendation!
I'm curious if they didn't include original scans for "Gods, Demi-Gods & Heroes" because the Conan and Elric mythos are in the booklet. The copy you can get off DriveThru is the rerelease that has those mythos edited out
Let's go!! I love hearing about Blackmoor!
I pre-ordered the "Making of" book and have been very happy with it. Sure, I've seen a lot of this material before, but having it all in one place along with a ton of stuff I hadn't seen, was worth the price to me. The fact that the book is simply gorgeous is just the icing on the cake. I hadn't heard about the Blackmoor book, but I plan on picking it up soon. I've always wanted to learn more about Blackmoor and it looks like a fun read.
Jordan Peterson is an absolute legend. I highly recommend his earlier works on TTRPG history: Playing At The World and The Elusive Shift.
Jon Peterson also has a blog where he posts this stuff up and looks at it for free.
Thanks for the recommendatin!
Another vote for this one ☝️
Another banger from Bob!
Thank you! :)
I LOVE ALL Bob World Builder videos! Bob the Librarian, Conqueror of Words.
Bob will you be at the Pittsburgh gaming expo this year?
Yes!
@@BobWorldBuilder I’m hoping to go too
Any history of D&D that doesn't mention Dr. J. Eric Holmes version of D&D loses my respect. The Gygax presentation of OD&D and AD&D is/was nearly impenetrable. It was the Dr. Holmes written/edited version that I was actually able to read and understand. It started my own my lifelong love of gaming.
I am a really big fan of Holmes Basic.
I stil run a Holmes based game as my go to as a DM.
Dr. Holmes has even advanced his own historical arguments about the hobby, truly a polymath of our times.
I have a fondness for Holmes Basic as it was the first TTRPG I ever owned and DMed (OD&D was the first TTRPG I ever played) -- however I also have a fondness for AD&D 1e -- as it is the game I played the longest and more frequently than any other TTRPG. All three of them are masterpieces in different ways.
@@quantus5875 I am back to pondering if I want to do OD&D with supplements, or pure OD&D, or with Holmes.
Supplements is like AD&D but better organized.
The simplicity of the old rules makes speed of play amazing.
I like that 'let's get things done' feel to it.
I love ALL Bob World Builder videos!
See big book, want big book 😍
That's what I thought as well!
Great review by the best-dressed GM in the game! Ok, we might be a little biased but it's true!
Its fun how much myth and discussion is about the origin story of things that there are live memory of its beginnings :P like, for real people, it was a decentralized phenomenan, you can find hard evidence for published things. but its all a lot more blurred than that :P
I bought the Moldvay boxed set and consumed it one weekend in the early 80s, and never looked back! It was weird, it wasn’t the most user friendly, but….it was very possible to learn it!
The Blackmoor book looks excellent!
The foreword and introduction ruin the other book.
I’d like you to cover Peterson’s “Playing at the World, 2E, Volume 1: The Invention of Dungeons & Dragons”
I didn't realise MIT have split into two volumes now, read the 2012 edition.
I love all Bob World Builder videos!
player availability called out :')
Wish this problem was somehow (at least partially) solved already.
I'm 99% sure that dragon you show a couple times is a direct ripoff of a picture from the original publication of Voyage of the Dawn Treader.
I might be wrong but I think Chris Perkins mentioned the real world being a part of the D&D universe, it's interesting to see Dave Arneson had a similar idea but inverse of it where he would be part of the fantasy world
Lots of people have played with that idea. Ed Greenwood wrote a column called "Wizards Three" in Dragon magazine, where wizards from different settings would come to Earth from different D&D settings and have meetings in his living room.
I love all Bob World Builder videos.
Sorry to inform you that the spine is embargoed. Pinkertons are already on the way.
Looks like I'm back on the run
The sound of constant airplanes can mask your mad dash through the woods for safety 👍
Yeah the WOTC book more a coffee-table book than an actual book of information and history. I mean, that's okay. As long as you know what you're buying.
Oooo. Thanks for looking into these books. I was eyeballing it but wasn't sure given the controversy around it. . . Buuuuut. . .dnd history . .
No problem! The "controversy" was pretty overblown as usual
Yes, great video!! Yeah -- wish the WotC book (like you said) had not included the OD&D rules (like you said - PDF available at DriveThru for $10) and was more like $60 dollars instead of $99 -- a bit of a cash grab IMO.
I think people are super interested in the history of D&D will still buy this book -- but I think for everyone else -- it's a super expensive book for what it is.
The Thangorodrim material can be found through links on the ODD74 forum.
I just did a google search for: Thangorodrim odd74
Boom, I hit a lot of links to discussions.
I’m pretty disappointed with what WotC has done for D&D’s 50th anniversary. I have a bunch of stuff from 1999 when a handful of silver editions and Return to adventures were released, which I remember young me enjoying. The fiftieth anniversary rolls around and Hasbro puts out a single coffee table book, which I don’t regret breaking my no Hasbro purchases rule for, but that’s it???
Dave Arneson and his group are the fathers of D&D!! Gygax just packed and sold it.
Also Griffith Morgan! Yes!! Secrets of Blackmoor is worth a watch for everyone who wants to know the history of TTRPG’s!!
Arneson may have had rhe idea, but Gygax did all the work. Arneson couldn't type and was slacking off most his time at TSR. Arneson really didn't like dnd
He wanted a naval themed game and perfered to paint minis. Everyone else had to do his work, or recopy his sticky notes. Gygax tried to protect him but when he was caught taking the company car to slack off while Gygax was put of town, the Blumes fired him.
@@jaysw9585 where did you get this alternative history? You can bootlick Gygax all you want. Arneson showed him what role playing was and they communicated and wrote everything. Gugax hardly did all the work. Gygax was a better business man and Arneson just wanted to play….but he believed in D&D but Gygax was shifty and cut him out with Advanced Dungeons and Dragons but BECMI contractually had to be finished. But his usurping for control worked. He was a sheisty dude who believed in biological determinism-he sorta sucked. He also got sent to California and did a bunch of blow and hung out with people on the back of D&D. Typical poopy capitalism stuff. The Blume’s essentially ruined TSR and fired Gygax as well via selling their shares to Lorraine Williams at the end of it all.
@thomaskiser3886 First, Gygax didn't run the business, the Blume brothers did. Gygax sucked at business. It's the reason he lost TSR and bought out. Gygax was a writer editor. Gygax was writing game rules for Chainmail and other war games long before Arneson came along. That's how they met because Arneson was in the convention circuit that Gygax was running in Lake Geneva Wisonson. Arneson was the president of his schools war gaming club. It wasn't even Arneson that came up with the idea to play a single character. That was one of his college buddies who thought of it and ran the first game for Gygax. Arneson was a 20-year college kid in a history major, specializing in naval warfare. Arnesons only job was working a ticket booth at the local fair. Gygax was in his 30s, married with kids, working as a shoe repairman to make ends meet while spending all his free time writing game for Avalone Hill and working on DnD. It was Gygax that invited Arneson to Wisconson to start the business.
Arneson was notoriously lazy. Other writers were constantly complaining about his poorly written notes, and Gygax had to constantly retype his work. The Blumes fired him after he was caught using the company car to drive home and sleep on company time. Gygax wasn't even there when it happened. Arneson was then fired from the next three game companies he worked at for missing deadlines by monthes and turning in shobby work.
Hate Gygax all you want, by all accounts he was a diva, but don't pretend that Arneson is somehow the hero, because he wasn't. Everyone at TSR worked their asses off, not just Gygax, and Arneson wasn't pulling his weight. No one liked working with Arneson.
@thomaskiser3886 Also, arneson barely wrote anything. Gygax produced more than 500 times more work than Arneson both before and after DnD. Not liking Gygax is fine, but acknowledge he did nearly all the writing. That recognition he deserves. Gygax was a prolific writer that in addition to the 3 ADnD books, wrote all the 1e suppliments, most the 1e adventures, wrote majority of the articles in Dragon Magazine, and wrote an entire novel series. Arneson wrote a poorly written Blackmoore setting that doesn't even take up the full 100-page book that just got published.
@@jaysw9585 Sure, Gygax wrote a lot-he loved writing and basking in the limelight. He may have penned some of the most iconic AD&D adventures that many people fondly remember, but claiming he wrote "almost all" the 1e adventures is a stretch. Out of the 96 coded AD&D adventures, Gygax was involved in 26, which is about 28% of them. I, unlike some, appreciate Gygax’s quirky writing and the adventures he created. However, it’s important to acknowledge that he wasn’t the sole architect of D&D and took more credit than he deserved, especially from Dave Arneson.
Gygax did package the game and bring it to the masses, but it's also true that he had his flaws. He was a biological determinist and a capitalist who didn’t shy away from taking more than his fair share of the spotlight. Whether it was downplaying Arneson’s contributions or his behavior during his time in California, Gygax was far from a saint. Arneson, who did much of the heavy lifting in creating the foundations of D&D, invited Gygax to play in his Blackmoor campaign, which heavily influenced Greyhawk. It's similar to how Ray Kroc didn’t invent McDonald’s-he just capitalized on it.
Gygax was a dedicated wargamer with a sharp business acumen, and he worked hard, but that doesn't mean we should overlook the contributions of others or the flaws in his legacy.
Looks interesting. Mainly curious if the curators of the books included personal political statements posed as disclaimers regarding the 'racism' of the 1970's authors?
NB4 the copyright strike, you showed what the cover looks like under the dust jacket.
Two legends, one cup? 😂
To those of you that do not know, thick paper is cheap paper. Don't know why it was stated as though it is a plus.
Thick Paper is more durable then Thin Paper, therefore it's a plus in that regard.
@@morrigankasa570 We chose 70 pound paper for the Blackmoor Foundations book. It means the book costs more to print, but we felt it made the product better. The Lost Dungeons of Tonisborg hard bounds we've published were 70 pound archival paper which cost even more, but we wanted to make sure the books would last. During Covid times we couldn't source 70 pound paper. Instead of down grading we bumped up to 80 pound paper and our company ate the extra expense.
It's getting harder and harder to make quality books here in the USA. The craftsmanship is a dying art. The bindery we use assembles everything by hand. Sadly their experienced stitcher was very old and he passed away. It's a huge loss in terms of acquired knowledge.
We really want to keep making quality products, but the market seems to dictate using cheaper machine made print on demand. Or, cheap printing in China.
I was at a panel on the history of D&D at Gencon, where Jon Peterson said the Making of Original D&D was less about a historical narrative and uncovering new, previously unknown information, and more about sharing historical documents with a wider audience, with a little bit of historical context for each document. I think maybe a different title would have set better expectations for what the book actually ended up being. And the presentation was beautiful, which I think is important because that's the main thing the book brings to the table. It is more convenient to have all these documents in one book rather than gathering multiple PDFS and having to contact the National Archives.
WorC must destroy the past so they can make it own truth.
Half of Secrets of Blackmoor is up on the Informal Game channel if you want to see the decade before D&D came into existence.
The entire movie is over 2 hours long and can be found on The Fellowship of the Thing website.
Ed Greenwood does a similar thing, and talk about how Elminster brought him to Toril.
Personally the books fall into, pretty cool Christmas gifts, but I don't know how much they speak to me. Would have been great resources when I was in college writing history papers about DND
does anyone know what is going on with the subscription tab on dndbeyond?
Okay... sorry... but no. The first sentence you read from the back of the book... D&D is NOT a hobby! Tabletop Roleplaying games is a hobby! D&D ist just ONE of those games.
Really, that's the one thing that really makes me mad somehow, when "D&D" is used synonymous for "ttrpg". It's just _one_ freaking game.
Not on you Bob, but I needed to call that out.
it's just kinda hard, because if you're talking to anyone outside of the hobby, the only way they'll know what you're talking about is if you call it DnD.
Same thing if you move to a new area and you're doing internet searches for any groups. :/
@@ingetamna that's sad enough and also why I don't do it. It's nothing wrong with mentioning D&D, I just don't like to present it as if it was what I do. Apart from that I really don't play D&D. 😀
I tell them I play fantasy roleplaying games and then explain that it's like telling a story together. Most people who never heard about it, whom you tell you play D&D instead, still don't have a clue what you're talking about and most likely associate it with the few things they saw. You know, the embarrassing stuff.
It's for kids, it's a cult (I hope that one died), what the kids in stranger things play (grrreeat playing examples...), wasn't there a movie? Isn't that a computer game?...
This is a shovel and they say you can use it to shovel stuff but most of it is just a stick which you can get in the woods for free, so if all you need is a stick, I can't really suggest you get their shovel unless you need to shovel stuff. Seems legit.
I really wish WotC had, you know, _actually talked about the history_ instead of spending a page and a half talking about how "ist" TSR's original members were and pretending like they're so much more righteous now. "We had to fix Gary's mistakes"... This whole industry wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for Gary and the rest.
I hope the rumored legal actions from Rob Kuntz over the defamatory remarks WotC made about D&D's creators come to fruition.
Everyone should buy the Blackmoor book, if you can, it's by people who were actually there at the start of it all, unlike these WotC clowns.
I would agree.
I am a history nerd. I read a lot of histories. I've never seen a take down like it in a book purporting to be a history on something.
You probably can't find a book about Vlad Dracul with a commentary of the kind on it. Vlad Dracul was responsible for the brutal torture and murder of countless people.
I think WOTC made a poor decision to add that content.
I am surprised Bob didn't even mention it. Well, not that surprised.
@@Goldschlagerlet’s be real; Bob already took the 30 pieces of silver. I’m hesitant of anything he says relating to D&D at this point.
@@tasty_wind4294 I really do not think you are being fair to Bob.
If all he wanted was cash, he would not have reviewed our book by a tiny publishing house with no money.
I even told him to feel free and be critical of anything he see's in the book.
I wish more high profile youtube shows would review small publisher material in this way.
I have to wonder if you read the book. There is a two page preface for the book and a two page forward after that. The majority of both is devoted to praising D&D's influence and importance in culture, all of which they attribute to Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson. There are a few paragraphs devoted to problematic content but never criticizing Gygax or Arneson personally, just saying that some of the content they wrote was problematic and doesn't represent the current values of the D&D community- which is true and makes sense to say.
Sure, a lot of that content may be available elsewhere, but having it collected in 1 place in print is nice. I certainly don't have most of them.
That said... I won't be getting it. A model-A Ford is interesting and I respect it, but I don't want to drive one. ;)
Shadowdark is a nice game but characters do feel pretty samey to a lot of people.
I'm surprised Wotc has shown restraint with not bashing Gary Gygax. They have been trying to distance themselves from him. Unless in the book they did, i dont own it.
Oh, they did. The book is full of disclaimers about how awful and insensitive earlier versions of D&D allegedly are.
@@thomaschapman6530 then I take it back, they've learned nothing, and I won't by it.
@@thomaschapman6530 A bit of an exaggeration. There's a preface and a forward, both of which are extremely positive about D&D and its creators. There are a few paragraphs in each about flaws that the original documents had, such as sexism, cultural appropriation, and slurs. Nothing personally criticizes Gygax or Arneson, they just say that some of the stuff they wrote is offensive and doesn't represent D&D's current values, which is true and makes sense to say. It's not just sensitivity concerns they mention, either, they also mention the copyright infringement committed by those early versions of D&D. It's ok to have nuance and admit some of the older content is flawed without trying to demonize it or its creators and that's what the book does in my opinion.
Ooooooooh! You're on the Anti-Flag side of PA. I'm from the Kid Dynamite side.
What was the final outcome in the court battles between Arneson and Gygax?
Arneson won.
Later on Gary & Dave made up too.
Why do you think the D&D/AD&D split carried well into the mid-90s?
They settled out of court, and Arneson got credit and some royalties on AD&D 1e, but not as much as OD&D.
Ben Riggs' History of D&D or bust
A lovely video, except for the backing music that features an intermittent tone that sounds like a drawn out doorbell that really got on my nerves. 😬
Dont buy Hasbro-Wiz products
The recent copyright whacks is one more reason I don’t want to support WotC. Ugh. 😜
OMG Bob, you are horrible at shilling! Did you miss the shill for WotC meeting? You need to edit out all that talk about getting most of the book elsewhere. C’mon, Bob. Get your shill together, man.
Wotc
I would be cautious promoting anything by the Secrets of Blackmoor guy. He's known to make a lot of hateful comments online and hide his bigotry behind "old school" despite it being pretty obvious
The DEI inclusion is nauseating. No, I don't have trouble with DEI. I LIKE DEI. But I loathe revisionist history and I despise fakery. Hasbro and Wotc don't give a damn about me, or anything to do with DEI. It's just part of their ambition to take money from anyone. They just want the money. I was there when the game began. No one felt the game was sexist or anything else. It was a game for nerds by nerds. Sexist is the last thing a nerd ever was. I have a super jock brother (that was him in highschool) and a stunning blonde sister (that was her in highdschool). And I was the odd one. Didn't play sports, was into the military, read a lot of science, and sure didn't fit in. I played rolegames. The only reason no one hassled MY gang of friends at school, was we were all hawks as well as nerds. This book is likely an over priced pile of pages most of us already possess. And probably won't interest anyone playing 5th. I doubt it will sell well. I'm not paying 100 bucks for it. There's no sign of a pdf yet, and I doubt I'd want it free.
Good news: It's not revisionist history! They reprinted the supposedly offensive material exactly as-is!
All they did was include an short acknowledgement in the preface and forward that some of the reprinted material includes remarks that disparage women, make light of slavery, or other things that might be offensive, and that they, the people making this book, don't agree with those remarks but are reprinting them anyway. That's it. That's the extent of what you call "nauseating DEI inclusion". That's what they clickbait outrage machine has told you is a horrible slap in the face to Gygax and anyone who likes the game he made.
It's not an attack on Gary Gygax or Dave Arneson or Rob Kuntz or any of the people who worked on early D&D. It's CERTAINLY not an attack on you, who enjoyed the game they created. The people who wrote this book also love D&D despite its flaws.
*Criticism of a thing you like is not an attack.*
WOTC is terrified that the people who invented D&D could be normal people who may reflect the society they live in at that time. if you lived in the 70's those perspectives would have been normal for at least half of society.
It's a natural progression for something to merely become a commodity as well, thus no more By Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson on the covers, it's just the branding.
Most people are not aware who invented Monopoly, or Clue, or Risk, much less the name of who first owned McDonalds.
I always buy games made by gamers for gamers. I like to feel connected to the designers of the games I purchase and often I can just email them and they are glad to chat back.
You don't know what a book cover is for? I guess you're probably joking... if not, I'm not so sure about this channel.
When you receive free product from a company to talk about, YOU are sponsored, not the video. You are using manipulative language. You are legally liable for that lie. I do hope someone sues you for doing this. We are not all idiots Bob
This makes no sense and was written thanks to the use of fake account and anonymity.
I sent Bob the Blackmoor Foundations book to review. I told him in an email to feel free to be critical of it.
As an example he questions whether or not it is a setting book. I think it is because Blackmoor fans want to use old maps and sources to home brew the setting. He felt it wasn't a setting book because it does not offer a A to B to D, WOTC style adventure. Fair enough.
His comments on the WOTC book are the usual Bob being mellow kind of statements, but he is actually kind of harshing on it. He points out how most of what is in the book can be found either free, or as a PDF for very little cash.
Bob is just not a confrontational kind of guy. Yet, he does criticize both books for different reasons.
I appreciate his criticism, but I think the Blackmoor book is an ideal jump start for a Blackmoor campaign as the materials are new to the gaming community.