Could Manchester City be relegated?
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Manchester City have been charged by the Premier League with alleged breaches of their financial rules between 2009 and 2018.
In response, City have expressed their “surprise” at the announcement and are determined to fight their corner when an independent commission hears the case.
But, while an outcome isn’t expected soon, what punishments could City potentially face if they’re found to have broken the Premier League rules?
Mark Critchley explains, Marco Bevilacqua illustrates.
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#MCFC - Sport
Imagine how many goals Halaand will score against goalkeepers who are also shopkeepers.
Someone compose a rap song on this!
Not that funny mate ...
@@thefighterdoc.343 take it seriously😂 his g/a stats will go through the roof
English football is professional all the way to the first division of non-league and some in the league below that. It's not like other countries.
@@ThomasThomasAndrew English players have the least technical ability in world football, lmao.
I still feel we are going to get a combination of
1 - A fine in the seven to eight figure range
2 - A points deduction big enough to make Man City miss European spots when handed out
3 - Maybe a season long transfer ban
Well none of this will affect city
Money is infinite
City will find a way through as they will be able to get a lot of points .They are the centurion
We can manage with the players and depth we already posses.
Citty fan?
@@Wiintb yeah die hard
That’s not enough. A fine? They’ve got loads of money. Miss a European spot? Oh well it’s only one season. Transfer ban? They’ve got one of the best squads in the world already. They don’t need any players.
They should be banned from competing all together for 12 months followed by a relegation to league 2 and a 5 year transfer ban. The owners should be no longer deemed fit and proper and there should be a 3 year window to sell the club otherwise it’ll be liquidated by the premier league and it’s assets distributed across the football pyramid.
@@TT-hx9nj
Lol you wish. They’re guilty as sin and it goes beyond just dodgy contracts.
No, they won't. They'll probably get a fine and point deductions at most. However, realistically, the lawyers can drag the case for years.
I depends on if the EFL officials let them drag it out. If they’ve got a spine they won’t and hopefully whatever happens is done and dusted by end of summer.
@@HKibss Its nothing to do with the EFL. This is the premier league which is completely seperate.
Who appoints the "independent commission" to make this final judgment? Is it the Premiere League?
FFA rules primary reason in the PL is to protect smaller clubs from over spending in order to avoid bankruptcy and owing taxes to the government. This is just dumb for large clubs with huge wallets. It smells more like the PL just reacting to some bit of information and flexing their muscles.
City have been warmed against dragging the case... This was drag more than 6 months
@@muleyamwiinga3988 Yes. This is 4 years in the making and they only got charged now. They know what they're doing
The EFL could be pressured by all the championship clubs to not accept Man City unless they accept further points deductions & penalties whilst at their time in the championship. Cuz it'll just be a one season then automatic promotion essentially and that takes away from one championship side that could have been in the Top 6 & pushes one club down into the relegation zone
A club will be brought up anyway when they go down. Disnt rhink that one through.
Clubs can't do that come out of your wishful thinking
An appropriate punishment, of course if found guilty, would be apply points deduction for 9 seasons, given the breaches are being reported to have been over 9 seasons, irrespective of which league they play in
No they couldn't.
Pressure them how? By going on collective strike?
Call me cynical... They'll get fined, and make someone that doesn't have a role in the company anymore a scapegoat.
Yep, Seeing how UEFA and FIFA have dealt with corruption has been so poor you can only assume the EPL would do the same
It was all Mark Hughes' idea. We tried to stop him but he wouldn't listen.
@@EoinJones 😂 superb. Him and Benjani cooked up the whole thing
I find it astonishing, that because the video didn´t go deep into the charges, also not a single commenter speaks about the charges, but about the unimportant stuff instead... The various punishments are irrelevant, since they simply mirror what the actual charges are, and how valid those charges end up being. I hope the process will be transparent.
All charges has been disected by numerous people in the last couple of weeks dude.
I mean... We all already did that back when the news broke up. Just go check the vids from back then bro.
@@Efeverscente ok, I´ll do. But I didn´t critisize the video-content, only the commenters.
the EPL board is made up of United, Liverpool and Arsenal fans, but City will prevail
@@TheModeler99 oh please, you see conspiracies everywhere. Sentiment and bias won't allow you be open minded.. well, I do hope that everything thing is done in a transparent manner but I'm guessing that no matter the outcome some people won't still be satisfied.
The harshest punishment City would ever get is slap on the wrist... twice
Unlimited final warnings 😂
Was there new illustrator for this video? It looked good. I especially liked the "slap on the wrist" bit, and how the three blue dots looked so deflated when they had to forfeit matches to their opponents!
I preferred it back when Man City were relegated regularly
how old are you?
@@bestyoueverhad.2408 Old enough to remember them going down to Division 2 in the 1990s.
Too many teams in the PL are relegation proof now.
@@BOABModels But the entire Prem is full with insanely rich teams who do exactly the same thing, people just hate on city because they are the best.
Cope🤭
CRY
Love the new animations Tifo. Y'all have been my go-to for all things football, alongside Athletic Interest. Keep up the amazing work!
+1
FFP was created to stop City not to be some kind of balance between rich and poor teams. Notice how Chelsea can spend 600M in 6 months, how is that fair to other teams in the PL?
Given the length of time in which this all took place I can't help but feel like Man City knew what they were doing and have likely spent plenty of time preparing a watertight defence. Sucks if it's true and they find another loop hole to avoid punishment for cheating but I'd wager they have plans in place
These videos are such high quality. Praise to the writers, design staff, editing people and also choice of equipment. Never noticed how clear and consumable the narrators’ voice is. All around top self content, we appreciate you.
I can see the lower league teams suing because Man City will pop right back up and it takes away a promotion spot while also adding another relegation spot.
Probably just enough points penalty to knock them out of Champions league
Is that your opinion as a sports specialist lawyer?
There would be an extra promotion spot though when when they went down so that would mitigate any "lost spots"
@@shakiMiki it’s not entirely illogical, they likely won’t be relegated unless this investigation is insane, and ucl is the most important competition to these clubs outside of the premiership
@@3dottt They certainly should be relegated, the charges are serious enough, and they have consistently tried to hide their guilt. They would then have to sell three quarters of their squad to meet FFP in the championship. I also think that the committee will chicken out, but MC should be relegated and stripped of their titles.
My guess is that UK is about to get a “France Treatment” and suddenly get a huge investment from Abu Dhabi, maybe a large purchase of UK made goods and have the charges be at most a fine and a strongly worded letter.
Please make a video on FFP rules and how Chelsea spent so much...
They spread it into several years ahead for every deals this season... thats why
They already have a few. Anything that mentions "amortisation" generally involves chelseas strategy.
Sky Sports already explained how Chelsea are within FFP rules. Only dumb people who are blinded by hate and jealousy still claim Chelsea broke the rules. UEFA are literally changing the rules from summer 2023 to close the loophole Boehly has found.
There isn't a need to. They simply followed transfer rules and used huge past transfer profits and future long term deals to spread it out. All Chelsea needed to do to remain "in the green" for the 2023 FFP monitoring period was get rid of Rüdiger, Christensen, Emerson, Giroud and Caballero last summer.
HITC Sevens already did a good video on that
I highly doubt it. but one can hope for points deductions. I'd be really disappointed if it's just a slap on the wrist fine
I guess the most are points deduction, heavy fine, transfer ban for two or three windows, and registration limit
Hi tifo...just asking...can you make a video on Will Still Reims tactics?...he is performing extremely well in ligue 1...
It is quite possible city could claim res judicata in terms of this case given it has already been considered by uefa. Also, despite there is no five year limit on complaints with the epl which is what won it for city at CAS, there is a general rule of time limits in law of the five year negative prescription, a old principle of roman law which is the source of the principle of prescription laws more generally.
The allegations are not the same as those already considered by UEFA, and in any event, it's questionable whether the principle of res judicata would apply to proceedings of this kind. Res judicata applies only to "a body which is independent of the parties and is invested by law with the power to determine an issue
which establishes the existence of a legal right" (Unite the Union v McFadden [2021] EWCA Civ 199, per Singh LJ at [57]-[58]). Thus in McFadden it was held that it doesn't apply to internal disciplinary proceedings brought by a trade union against one of its members, since the union gets its disciplinary powers from the contract which its members signed up to, rather than from the law itself. Precisely the same applies to the Premier League - it's a consensual/contractual disciplinary process, not a statutory one. As to your other point, the negative prescription only applies in Scots law, not in English law.
@Amrit Lohia the McFadden case is not on all fours here. The CAS and uefa disciplinary proceedings are independent of the clubs and the Premiership would also be viewed as a body independent of its club membership.
While not all the charges are not entirely congruent with earlier proceedings many charges ate the same.
English law has a six year limitation period analogous to the five yearvpresciption CAS referred to to throw out the previous case.
It’s crazy how owners can get into so much issues by investing into the club (Man City in this case went totally out of line with it though) which would always be seen as a positive in any other business. But owners who milk money out of the club e.g. the glazers walk away scot free. This should also be done for owners that take so money out of a club!
Yes exactly right. Because with the ownership style in PL the clubs are more of a private organization than an spotiting institution. How is onwers injecting cash for future potential growth is towted as a bad part in foorball.
But this case is not plainly about owners investing into the club, it's also about falsifying documents of revenue and expenditure to show adherence to pre-accepted regulations, which is illegal in any industry
You sound like a City fan 😂😂😂
@@bickyam yeah totally agree they went crazy but still think owners who take huge sums of money out of clubs should have it worse
Forner football clubs are now businesses ran for profit by a parasitic ownership class. Premier League founder Rupert Murdoch's dystopia is now fully realised. Emulating German football fans with their (at least partial) collective ownership of their clubs is what needs striven for in response.
I notice the new edit shift.
Its more VOX like.
Maybe add a bit more tifo effect to it
I am no city hater. But what mitigating factors? As in I tripped and accidentally bought someone for 100 million ?
Happens all the time. Like that Muslim bro who accidentally tripped and ate a load of swama during Ramadan.
It’ll likely be punitive but the interesting thing is not so much teams issuing objections re: a position in the table they lost but a team rather objecting to the idea of lost earnings/growth due to a perceived gap to city based on this possible breach.
Example: does Jack grealish still go to City or Chelsea? Would that have changed Chelsea’s fortunes?
If they are punished for 1 season, with a "small" fine and some points dropped, and get to keep all the trophies they won whilst cheating, it will open the door for others. Silver gained would be worth 1 season of 15 less points as you can go again anyway. They need to be stripped of trophies won in seasons they lied and cheated.
The illustration for telling off vs relegation with the hands was brilliantly elegant.
As a Man City fan I hope that all the charges are untrue, and of course hope that they get away with as light of a punishment as they can if they are guilty. But if I was... say, an Arsenal fan or a Man United fan I would hope for point deductions in this current season and seasons before.
Sadly not, they'll get away with a slap on the wrist and pretend they did nothing wrong. Everyone knows they've been cheating but proving it against their 100 lawyers may be impossible.
This does nothing for clubs like Sunderland though who missed out on their first major honour since 1973 and qualification to Europe.
I'm not sure that's right when you say that city can't appeal to CAS. CAS is a legal authority, the premier league or fifa are not in a position to decide if a football club is eligible to take an issue to CAS.
Let's hope so
Has anyone noticed the animation framerate? I can understand if it is a style but it is really choppy in a not so attractive way.
the animation is crazy good!
Very interesting!
They will absolutely not. They have too much money. They most certainly should be however. At minimum they should have transfer bans for 3 years, be relegated and from the years that they committed the violations be deducted 10 points per season as well as pay teams who missed out on European competitions. It will never happen again and set a precedent.
Liked and subscribed
please sort your frame rates on your exports Tifo..!!
Trying to weigh up what I think is right vs wanting pep ball in the prem
a fine and tranfer ban seem more likely
What will happen to the revenue raked in by the "Premier League Organizers/Sponsors etc" as a result of City's performance in the league???
are you suggesting that money wouldnt be generated by some other team winning those titles? That ONLY Man City can make money??? \
The teams that didn't cheat would have done better and generated more revenue. Simple.
Suspension sounds unfair between team scheduled to meet them during the suspension and others
That’s why you suspend them for an entire season
Whilst i dont see city being expelled because of their cheating, i doubt they will get away with just a slap on the wrist if the pl can defeat citys army of lawyers.
If they are found guilty and just given a fine, i can see the other clubs in the league in uproar
I
City doesnt get either points deductions or suspension / demoted, then we know how much power their owners have over Britain. Besides that, the only sensible punishment I can think of besides fines, is a ban on transfers for 4 -5 years (however long they've been breaking the rules) and force them to use their academy players.
the animation have become soo good guys
Hopefully they'll expunge Paul Dickov's last minute equaliser in 1999. A third playoff trophy for Gills, please!
Relegate them to the Vanarama with Wrexham 😂😂😂😂😂😂
- Give £100,000,000 compensation to all clubs that Manchester City played
- Transfer Ban for 2 seasons
- 45pts deduction this season and the next 3 seasons as well
- €200,000,000 for the Prem
They should just put a cap on the amount of money they're allowed to spend for a certain period of time.
What will happen is that Man City will just go into the Super League with even more lax or no FFP rules and they’ll be able to spend as much as they want like the other big clubs in Europe.
The last thing the Premier League wants would be for them to be relegated, though some teams may wish for that. This is big business and having Man City in the league is better for the Premier League than having them in the Championship. If guilty I think a points deduction and a transfer ban would be appropriate. A points deduction big enough to keep them out of Europe for a year would be just enough pain to penalize them but not enough to damage the finances of the league.
The Premiership can do without Manchester City for a few years. They were just mid-table club until they hit gold
City not being in the league will not hurt the premier league at all.
So anything goes
One of my best mates is a Barcelona fan so by extension he loves Pep by default . I always bring up that argument…where is that champions league buddy ? Oh wait I think he’s only to get it when he’s blessed with Messi,Xavi, and iniesta in the team right ? He’s always talking about Newcastle who’s acquired this new wealth but I also pointed out Newcastle didt spend like crazy and is doing very well with a non high profile manger. Whilst pep has been in city for a while and inherited a winning team like he did with Bayern and still no champions league. The Mount of money this man alone has spent and only made one final. My team is ManU and he argues that we spent billions already which is true but that’s between different managers whilst pep is nearing 1 billion on transfers and only him alone. What am I saying ? Kick rocks Man City and pep
Huge points deduction please and force them to be transparent with future financial arrangements
I mean, City in the Championship does sound like riveting content ngl
amen to this
I hope
4:30 Fa came out and said there was no appeal for this.
IMO, these two punishments should happen:
- A fine equivalent to the amount they cheated, to be paid in one payment and for it to count as an FFP expense, effectively forcing either a mass player sell off or risking a UEFA CL ban for a couple years.
- And a X point deduction for X seasons, where X is the amount of years they've deemed to be guilty for. If it's 9 years they will start the next 9 seasons with -9 points.
This way it's not punishing the fans who saw their club in the PL before the takeover happened, and is addressing the financial crimes both on and off field. Could also just force the owners to sell like with Abramovich, but would need government support to do that which is unlikely.
Now you need to talk about Barcelona please!
Thing is with Newcastle and most likely a Qatar funded club too, the PL have a chance to actually set a precedent.
If no serious action gets taken, these clubs know they can all break the rules with no fear
The nationality of the owners is not what they ar charged for.
@@NostalgiNorden Who said it was? I named 2 state owned clubs and one other likely one. Which is extremely relevant in being able to hide financials.
Newcastle despite the "Arabian state owner" didn't spent a lot like some "American owner" clubs
I say they get a point deduction and fine, i know the fine wont really do much since they are owned by a state, i still think there should be an example. And the point deduction so its not a slap on the wrist, im saying 15 points, just like Juventus, This would probably take them out of the title race, but would definitely still get into the champions league
*IF* they are found guilty, I think a reasonable punishment would be a 12-point deduction for each of the nine seasons they were in breach of the rules along with expulsion from the Premier League for their failure to cooperate with the investigation beyond 2018. So they would play in the 2023-24 season in the Championship with a 12-point deduction. That would not stop them from winning promotion, obviously, so they would play each of the next eight PL seasons with a 12-point deduction.
Add in a five-window transfer ban - one for each season failing to cooperate - and you would have a punishment that would serve as a deterrent.
I don't care about stripping past titles one way or the other. The PL can't say "AGUERO!!" didn't happen.
(I'm a Wednesday fan who thinks we deserved every bit of the punishment for the stadium "sale".)
Seeing the fans of the rival clubs crying in the comments box is soooo laughable😆😆
I'm a Leeds fan, we can hardly be called Manchester City's rivals, we like them far more than Man Utd, Chelsea or Liverpool, who would be the beneficiaries if their titles are stripped from them. But I want them put down. If these charges are true, they cheated. Cheats should not be allowed to prosper.
@@gyorkshire257 If these charges were actually true then i'm pretty sure that we should've been in the mud years ago.... Coz they're talking about things which supposedly happened about 10-15 years ago....Anyways if we've cheated its true that we deserve to be punished but i believe that all these allegations are garbage brought up by our rivals
what if deduct 10 points in future seasons for each past season they were found guilty?
These videos are so good I automatically click like even before I start watching.
If guilty and the punishment isn’t fairly severe it undermines the whole FFP. You would hope clubs would start to do similar to city if they can.
Who appoints the members of the independent commission?
Like if City loses I dont see how the Prem could choose any other option then removing them from the leauge or a heafty points deduction both historicly and currently.
Anything else and they just open the door to more clubs doing this as if they could with 3 titles ect and only miss out on the champions leauge for a single season due to a say 15 point deduction or evan just a fine then the top clubs will do so.
Be very careful what you wish for.
@@obinnaezealah2465 I mean if they just give city a slap on the wrist then they become toothless as every single other club will use this case as a president.
So if another club do the same thing in the future they can point to this case and go well city only got a slap on the wrist as an appeal and the pannel would have to give a very similar punishment otherwise they would be sued for discrimination
For much less than that other teams have been relegated. So hopefully yes
We all know they'll get away with it as they always do
What’s with all the graphics playing at 10fps
Nothing will happen as usual. Money talks.
If city are found guilty they need a severe punishment … points deduction and a fine will mean nothing to a club that pick up points so easily and money is infinite …. It has to be relegation and a transfer ban ,it would be nice to see them stripped of their titles etc but thats very unlikely
How should city actually be punished? A harsh fine, Relegation from the league and points deductions for all the seasons with PL titles won in any impacted season given to the 2nd placed team.
What will they get? A fine and slap on the wrist.
They'll get a point deduction then we'll just carry on like nothing happened next season
Okay, but how will the higher ups of the PL get punished for somehow not noticing 9 years of wrongdoing? They're just as bad
Nope, they are from the Emirates, not italian.
Relegation and a heavy transfer ban is the only way to go to stop these things from happening. This was found by an hacker, which means that if City isn't heavily sanctioned, other clubs will come out. Other clubs want relegation and stripping of titles, do you really think if they were worried about themselves, they would ask for that? This is the only way to go
Man City will not be punished, just fined, because they can buy any "independent" commission.
Chelsea got a 2-year transfer ban for way less serious offences.
Ideally they get kicked down to the championship, or league one, along with multiple transfer bans (can only sell players), points deduction and suspension from half of their season (maybe all of their home games) which would keep them in the same division for at least one more season.
They probably will just end up with a fine and maybe a transfer ban. Points deduction from either this year or probably the next is likely the harshest punishment I realistically expect.
How is any of that fair lol?
@@AManCalledDutch I mean if they are guilty of over 100 violations, they were definitely not by accident so City for years blatantly disregarded the rules along with obstructing/not cooperating with the investigation (which in my country, at least, is just a full on crime) and clubs in the lower divisions have had severe punishments of similar levels for far less violations. Letting City go with just a slap on the wrist for the second time would deeply undermine the authority of the league. Also, the cheating led to multiple titles and lost revenues for other premier league teams so fining them heavily is important (like 9 figures because if they can spend 100 mil for a bench player like Grealish then they can pay a fine of 100+ million). And point deductions on top of relegation would be needed to not let them escape in one season but rather force them to adjust to the more strict EFL financial rules and not let them walk all over championship sides pushing others out of promotion spots. It is important to make an example out of a team and ownership that thought they were well above the laws. I doubt they get this severely punished but massive point deductions are needed at the minimum for this season or the next. It would be a failure by the league to find them guilty and not do the minimum of deduct points, fine heavily, and put them in a transfer ban.
£50m fine and a full season / 2 window period.
Pretty much a slap on the wrist is my guess
Why would the EFL let City in the Championship?
It is like saying their highest league is a punishment.
Weird thing to accept.
Could they? Yes.
Would they? Nope. PL doesn't have the balls to do it. The worst-case scenario will probably be some heavy fine which wouldn't even bother them.
Cmon man I just wanna watch haaland and debruyne
I dare the PL to expel City. All this will do is make sure that city enters the super league thus making it a precedent for other top 6 teams to do so. It will be a chain reaction which will have massive ramifications for the entire English footballing structure.
Lol. no
Now that is one option they can look at.
City should have started their own league if they couldn't follow the rules.
If MC lose and won’t take huge punishment for it, I am gonna stop watching football for good. EPL is the only football I still watch because it’s the last place where it still exists nowadays. All other leagues and tournaments are pure clownfiesta.
Nobody cares honestly
@@pro-xinyang imagine wasting you time to respond to someone’s comment in the internet 😂 Get a life, animal
No. Too much money and lawyers. If it even happens, its certainly not going to go down soon
No Cause the Premier League Would Bottle It.
However a Massive Fine and a Big Points Deduction Would Be the Most Likely Outcome.
@TifoFootball why is scope for compensation limited? If City are found guilty but no compensation is awarded could clubs individually or collectively sue Manchester City? Because if City are found guilty and especially if they're given points deductions or are expelled, every club that's been in the premier from 2008 till now can legitimately argue they've lost out of prize money from their position in the table, if they've missed out on Champions League or European places and all the revenue they create, since City fudged their numbers to sign players that other clubs could have signed if City hadn't cheated, they've cheated clubs out of valuable assets, and if City are relegated every club that's finished in 18th place from 2008 till now can say if Man City were caught and punished earlier, they should have been relegated instead of them, and that alone is worth £200 million apiece
And that's not even counting the clubs the have missed out on titles and silverware and the value they bring both in marketing and the transfer market. Heck could individuals sue Man City? Would Mourinho have been fired if Man Utd had won the league? The knock on damages City cheating has caused are endless
No way a wealthy club gets treated equally with Swindon Town even though the breaches appear to be far worse.
Nothing’s gonna happen as always. They get accused of breaking the rules every year yet nothing happens in the end. This time won’t be different 🤷🏻♂️
they'll wriggle out of it like everything else
10 points, fines and a year transfer ban
TLDW: no
I liked how the i's in "individuals" turned into little people icons
I think City's owners will just assemble an army of lawyers to appeal until they're either deemed innocent or they get away with a fine ("slap on the wrist" in their case)
Except appeals goes through Premier League, not the courts. Good luck with that army of lawyers though.
80 point reduction for 10 season they are in the premier league, a fine of 9 billion. This seems reasonable if found guilty.
The PL would put money first and keep them in the PL
Fine + points + compensation + transfer ban.