Why FTX’s Crypto Scam Is A Tale As Old As Time | The Problem With Jon Stewart Podcast
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- čas přidán 16. 06. 2024
- “Whatever fun name you wanna put on it, it’s the same damn thing we’ve seen over and over again.” David Dayen, Executive Editor of The American Prospect, joins us to talk through the spectacular rise and fall of crypto exchange FTX and its disgraced leader, Sam Bankman-Fried. We dive into how this collapse mirrors the worst failures of our more mainstream markets, how SBF was so easily able to use effective altruism as cover for garden variety political influence, and why it’s a mess that the Agriculture Committee ended up in charge of regulating exchanges like FTX. Plus, writers Henrik Blix and Jay Jurden stop by to discuss living in a golden age of grifts and teach Jon about the Liver King’s dirty secret.
Road map:
00:00 - Intro
00:49 - The Liver King with Jay Jurden and Henrik Blix
11:01 - Interview with David Dayen
47:43 - Interview breakdown with Jay Jurden and Henrik Blix
54:30 - One quick story before we go...
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#crypto #cryptocurrency #podcast - Komedie
The simple fact that a group of people can just tell the investigatory agency to "back off" certain company/investigations and have it happen is in itself a huge problem.
crypto bro guy: ima need u to get all the way off my back on this!
sec/ftc guy: ooh let me get off of that thing!
senate/congress: deregulation, economic instability and corruption are TIGHT!
Jon should probably interview Gary Gensler.
Prove it. The fact is the company was based in the Bahamas not in the US and the crypto market is just as unregulated as the derivatives market. I have no sympathy for anyone who lost money on this trash. There was so many red flags that you had to be brain dead to over look. Funny how those crying and asking for regulation now didn't want it before.
@@alveolate hahahahahaha this reference broke me
@@theamericanopry3
Thank you for making the connection! 23:00 when you call out Ken Griffin is music to my ears! Ridiculous that we have let it get this corrupt! It’s time to hold people accountable!
Awesome stuff to watch! Thank you Jon ☺️
What's wrong with Ken Griffin?
Oh god.
the opening with Liver King was not what I was expecting, but so glad he came up. Good laugh.
"We are suckers looking to become scammers." is so right on the money. I got ripped off and scammed, just like every Pyramid marketing scheme, when I was 19 years old. I walked away without my money, knowing that I had learned a very valuable life lesson.
At least you learned from it! Tuition to the “School of Life”
"a degree from the university of life, a diploma from the school of hard knocks, and three gold stars from the kindergarten of getting the sh*t kicked out of me."
Knowledge is more valuable then money anyway. So you came out ahead my friend.
It's amazing to see SBF called "the next Warren Buffet", while the actual Warren Buffet is still around and saying "I wouldn't buy all the crypto in the world for $25".
Yeah, all that crap was bizarre.
An old man about to die wouldn't buy some brand new tech thing? Wowee, what a surprise.
Wish I could like your comment twice
@@RedSaint83 A crypto bro purporting to know more than the greatest investor of all time? Wowee, what a surprise.
Randy dear; I think urs is the first f*gn comment I actually understood. When o when did I become so uncool.😶🌫️
TLDR: Some people are so rich that they publicly commit heinous acts against humanity, then just pay off the entire chain of justice that's supposed to exist to ensure that they can continue to destroy everything that stands between them and more money.
You should have watched it rather than assuming what the story is. What you typed has nothing to do with the video's content whatsoever. You are a terrible guesser.
@@richsackett3423 Back down. He hit the nail on the head.
@@richsackett3423 ever heard of Ford or Dupont ? they engaged in commerce with the Nazi party up until the bunker and cyanide. General Electric poisoned thousands in the northwest while making Nuclear bombs... Never payed a cent over it
@Rich Sackett
I haven't watched more than a few minutes, but knowing hyper-leftie Stewart, it would be shocking if he didn't follow the Democrat narrative and praise Sam Fraudster Bankman-Fried as a sympathetic innocent victim of an ignorant mistake. The vast majority of societal institutions are heavily Democrat owned and welcome any and all corruption that helps them while dismissing all confrontations with evidence as a russian conspiracy just like they successfully did with all the bank documents from hunters laptop
@@yourlogicalnightmare1014 you need this one czcams.com/video/SHSp86tsMAU/video.html
Jon being told about the Liver King was great.
I don't have tik tok application or follow Instagram or Twitter. So I am completely out of the loop.
@@kimthreadgold2755 I only found out about the Liver King after he was exposed for using steroids.
I'm just finding out about the guy too lol
@@kimthreadgold2755 He really is a very niche thing.. it is like a subset of the anti-woke movement that only includes people who work out. I understood his premise, but never actually heard of him except through meme's about him.
I was always suspicious of the whole Crypto business. As a former IT engineer and part time college Math instructor, algorithms are my thing. The way people who thought they understood this crap tried to explain it had my bullshit radar flashing red constantly.
Best way to be
why should you invest in a money
thats not regulated & not real,
just saying?
I’m not an expert of it by any means. But as a finance grad with yesrs in the sector and experience doing financial analysis of companies as a job it’s never made sense to me. It just doesn’t make any sense of the basic rules of economics to me. I’ve never really heard an explanation that makes sense to me as to why it has any value. To me it just seems like something people justify hoping they can time the giant upward swings at the right time to make quick profits but need to try and justify it rather than say that.
You’re into money laundering? That’s also known as crime.
Do you understand how dollars are made? How about our debt servicing to GDP? The dollar will die.
@@Matt-cr4vv That's exactly what it is, and you can say it's not entirely dissimilar from investing in anything. Consider the stock market, if someone buys stock and Tesla they don't really care what Tesla is or what it does. Their goal is to simply buy low and sell high. The only thing that gives Tesla stock more credibility than a random junk cryptocurrency is trust. There's a product behind it that people seem to want, therefore it's unlikely to fail immediately. The problem with crypto is there is no product, it's all driven entirely by FOMO. The result of this is it rises and falls much faster than any other investment option out there. The biggest problem that people fail to recognize and why they keep getting suckered is that the spike in value is always the result of a pump and dump process. They seem to think if they're smart they'll get in while they're getting is good, but what they failed to recognize is the entire process was rigged for the very beginning to benefit the founders. It's next to impossible to actually make any money off of these things unless you are in on the scam.
David Dayen and The American Prospect are what actual journalism is supposed to look like, thank you for having him on.
Hell Yeah ✊
I became familiar with David Dayen and The American Prospect from his appearances on The Majority Report w/ Sam Seder. Their work is high grade no doubt.
@@fractal_nature Left is Best 👏
They run cover for Democrats. ZERO mention that SBF donated mainly to Biden & Democrats
Seriously, I’m like wow Jon Stewart must be pretty legit if he gets someone as awesome as David Dayen on here.
Now, if only he’d stop interviewing people like Hilary Clinton and Condoleezza Rice he could be even more legit 😑
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself." ― Albert Einstein This was always my feeling about Crypto.
It’s basic. And they’re right, another shell game. Musical chairs and then the music stops and presto, you’ve been scammed. Why trust a “crypto bank” with no solid assets. I think it’s funny that someone would invest in that BS. It’s also a disgusting waste of electricity.
@@adrianpoesiat I worked in a bank many years ago and the manager told me that before he made a loan he always looked the customer in the eye and said "Are you going to pay this back?" That bit basic common sense seemed to be missing in the financial collapse of 2007-2008. How stupid can people be with their money?
@@adrianpoesiat you don't get it, probably never will. and I'm done explaining it
Well I agree with your quote versus crypto this was more about banking Maneuvers and Ponzi scheme and shell game as he was not a crypto except for some air token thing
its pretty easy to explain it, but if the 6 year knew anything on finance he would say: "But why?"
These young dudes with Jon are sharp and funny. Great trio, great guest, thank you.
Not knowing about the liver king, is a example of how the algorithms are overly dangerously targeted. That it finds and pulls in the most susceptible, with out really hitting the general radar of those that would be critical of it.
Agreed.
A point I think is oft overlooked in the discussion of bubbles.
Commentary CZcamsrs sort of fill that gap, but their own algorithms must get skewed by their search for content worthy stuff.
They could always go back to basing search off of tags, titles, & descriptions but it would tank all the crappy corporate content, so they keep adding more manipulation instead of less.
He is in the "fitness" side of CZcams, where all the incels dwell.
I basically live on CZcams but never heard of him
Absolutely loved the way they established the link between FTX and the liver king, great framing of the issue
Thanks.
Hadn't heard of any of them a month ago. Liver King a few days ago, the debunkment of Established Titles a few days before that, and SBF only after he did the chapter eleven thing on 11/11/22. It's been an entertaining few weeks.
@@tactileslut Liver King was, in a way, hilarious but I can't understand why so many people actually believed that this obvious character was natural. He looked like he was on a pro bodybuilding stage so was clearly on a ton of drugs and had ab implants to boot. On a side note, he was anything but a stupid person. He was a successful serial entrepreneur and had a degree in biochemistry and was in med school for a short time. The emails that were leaked showed that he had a full blown marketing plan based on this larger than life "Liver King" character. Seems people will believe a huge lie even when the truth is right in front of their eyes.
@@wheelhouse15 Being an intelligent, amoral grifter still makes you a grifter.
He doesn't get props for becoming rich by lying to people. That isn't hard; anyone can do it. The thing is, most people don't because they understand being a lying, scam artist is considered wrong on all fronts.
@@nickhewes6860 Actually, it makes it worse in many ways, he is a lot like SBF in that respect. My main point was he figured out that people will believe anything if you can disorient them even if it the lies are objectively obvious.
JOHN THANK YOU FOR HAVING DAVID DAYEN ON!!!! He is one of the best and brightest
This is a great podcast. Unsurprising as Jon is one of the best interviewers in the biz. Glad to see him enjoying himself.
"How is this different than Ken Griffin running a hedge fund at citadel and also being the most gigantic market maker that we have" - Jon Stewart
I thought I knew about the financial scams and the politicians who are paid off to enable them. But, I learned a lot. This podcast was a master class tying them all together.
yes this was good.amazing how close this came to being much worse...
@@bradc32 in 2020, FTX essentially paid for the campaigns of 2 Democratic senators. That's crazy. This man is a criminal
Why do we bail out the banks but not crypto exchanges? whats the difference??
I don't think politicians are responsible for your finances. People choose to pay real money for fake money, something abstract.
Great interview, always a pleasure to hear David Dayen. Coffeezilla has also done incredible reporting and recently interviewed SBF, cornering him with the hard questions. It was phenomenal work.
Coffeezilla really showed the size of his bawls in that interview with SBF.
Yeah the real question is Congress and PAC's returning the donations so they can reclaim some of misappropriated customer funds?
@@Bipbop66 quick answer!:
-no
@@doubleuponbob3397 Wow asking questions so ballsy Lmao
This is a new one for me. So glad I found your podcast!!!!! Yeah! I love Jon and his two cohorts!
"Bit coin ain't nothin but soy beans on the computer" brilliant 😂
Soybeans are useful, though. You can feed 'em to livestock or human beings, both, and growing them is good for the soil, too. Nothing about bitcoin was ever useful, except for the ones that got rich from it and then got out before it was worthless.
Less at least you can eat soy.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
52:58 That's the platonic ideal of the phrase "Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it."
The way people don't know that the robber barons were 1870's FTX and the S&L collapse was 1980's FTX and the subprime mortgages* were 2008's FTX is that we don't learn about that stuff. I learned it by listening to multiple podcasts and reading multiple articles and it took a while to understand, but as soon as I got to the part where Alameda took FTX customer deposits to cover their losses and all their assets were in FTT, a currency that FTX basically controlled, it was pretty straightforward.
And honestly, the problem is the one you identified with David: the system. It's not so much that this specific guy greased the right palms and lobbied the right people and bought the right media coverage. Any person rich and clever enough can do that _(or can fail at it; see also Musk, Elon)._ The problem is that the system is so susceptible to such stuff because voters won't vote out the enablers in power, and honestly, when there are only two plausible choices for any particular office and they're _both_ corrupted, what's a voter supposed to do? I'm pretty progressive so I vote almost exclusively Democrat, but I have no illusions that they're going to resist the corrupting influence of big money - that's how they became the choice of the Democratic Party in the first place. If we could just put Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren in every office and on every committee we might have something, but that might be tough on their schedules.
The way people *_do_* know about this stuff is *_The Problem with Jon Stewart,_* available now on Apple TV+ and partially on CZcams. I'm sorry to put this on you Jon but it's literally you, Henrik, and Jay _(and good journalists like David Dayan)_ who have to educate America. You need David's expertise, he needs your comedy and audience, and we all need both of you together. We're not going to teach it in schools, the mainstream media sure as hell isn't going to explain it well, and who's left?
*: _I don't actually agree on subprime mortgages. For the most part they weren't outright stealing, they were just blithely ignoring warning signs and common sense and hoping everything would keep going up forever while telling everyone that everything was great and they were so smart that they literally couldn't fail, and the regulators weren't so much outright captured as they were confused. FTX seems like more of a Bernie Madoff situation, where even an untrained person can understand that making bets on crypto with customer money is stealing._
Hold on now, you need to add the minivan driving, white board carrying, single mother, force of nature Katie Porter to your list. That lady makes all the CEO's look like the dummies they pretend not to be!
You forgot the huge monopolies of the early 20th century in that list.
Always love to see David Dayen. His journalism is great, and he's helped cover a lot of important topics on the Majority Report podcast over the years.
Never seen this podcast before, but the three of them at the beginning have such amazing chemistry! I really like it. Jon plays off these guys fantastically
I really appreciate David Dayen’s research. I catch him whenever he’s on the Majority Report
"the Majority Report" 🤡
@@elingrome5853 Do you have a problem with thoughtful and comprehensive political news analysis shows? Did you have trouble keeping up with this video? Perhaps you'd like someone to help you figure out which button is the "Back" button? We're here for ya buddy, you got this!
@@elingrome5853 even if you have a problem with the individuals from the program, there's no denying they bring on experts & professionals in their field to have a thoughtful discussion during the first hour of the show
Seder sucks and blows.
All these “Crazy Assclowns” with their self promotion, is beyond ridiculous. IMO, as far as this “SBFried Chicken eating idiot,” is no way behind this “Scam,” you can’t tell me he is not “Patsy” for this companies demise.” He followed his marching orders. If you ever seen any of his “ interviews,” ever other word that comes out his mouth is “like.” His lawyers told him to STFU, then within the next week, he is giving “softball questions,” from every that questioned him. Then the majority of the money ends up going to the Democrat party campaign funds. He was like an ATM for them while defrauding the rest of investors. Greed by those so called investors deserve exactly what they received in return. What’s going to happen to SBF in the long run, I don’t believe one damn thing!
Thank you Jon- and your writers. It feels hopeless for us normal people.
I raised my kids on you- and we are doing something significantly wrong that they subscribe to a liver king….
We are failing as adults.
Random: I'm there.wandering in market,kids get outta school,come in like a wave,to purchase CANDY.the aisle is swamped. Are these young chic's,and I mean young,getting ready to be filmed for the next season of Euphoria.holy SHITE.*short shorts?* Literally,the stretchy shorts are up the crack of their --- .tiny lil tops,I mean tiny.who,how,why do they get to leave the home and walk around in school undressed that way. Why am I so upset by this---- am I uncool and out of it now. Am I old now. WTF?! Yes,very uncool exclamation point! ******
THANKU, whee,that felt good.
It's easier for them to curate an entire lifestyle. Flood social media with a ton of curated content like health, wealth and happiness. Let the algorithms do the rest, add somesome paid bots to drive up engagement, which starts a self perpetuating cycle of pushing that content up front where more people can interact with it. It works until the scams are uncovered and by that time the next one has already been primed and ready to take their place. Social media and its lax moderation, as well as having no monetary incentives to do any, are perfectly placed to take advertisers money while shouldering no responsibility whatsoever.
Raise them to read The American Prospect 👏
This was an amazing episode. The best and most informative episode on the FTX collapse anywhere. Jon Stewart is an American gem and should be celebrated for his political brilliance. Well done Jon.
O.M.G. Henrik's "simple farmin' man" bit at the end SLAYED me!!!! Lol!!!!
🤝Tʜᴀɴᴋꜱ Fᴏʀ Wᴀᴛᴄʜɪɴɢ, Sᴇɴᴅ ᴀ Tᴇxᴛ Oɴ Wʜᴀᴛꜱᴀᴘᴘ Wɪᴛʜ Tʜᴇ Nᴜᴍʙᴇʀ Aʙᴏᴠᴇ.👆👆✙1727𝟺𝟹𝟽𝟾𝟹86📊📊❤️❤️
Not to forget, Alameda Research was a "Market Maker" - would be great to have a deep dive into crypto from that angle. MM's are the real drivers behind this phenomenon. And thanks for your program, real and solid stuff - and congrats to the US and rest of the World for the democrats securing the Senate 51-49. All the best, from a guy in Oslo, Norway.
SBF is proud that the extremely corrupt & Political Party (that happens to have longtime connections to his parents that created SPAC's for them93% of his donations went to remained in power.
As usual, they both tried their best to make it seem like this is the fault of Tom Emmer and Republicans more so than the Dems that received 93% of SBF's donations. The Democrats are just as corrupt, if not more corrupt, than the Republicans. Anyone supporting either of those 2 parties are absolutely delusional cowards refusing to accept reality. But, don't worry, according to the Democrats in power and the Democrats' news sources, this is all just transitory inflation and it's a good thing. Don't worry about the $80 trillion that has disappeared, don't even talk about it. A recession? No, it's not a recession, you must be looking at the dictionary from the beginning of the year. You're probably still using the wrong definition of vaccine.. and liberty... and gain of function... and woman... and neo-nazis. Just because Jon Stewart gives awards to Ukrainian militants with Nazi tattoos doesn't mean that Jon gives awards to Ukrainian militants with Nazi tattoos.
You want more communism and live in your anti immigration almost purely white mega rich country 👍
I wonder how wonderfully peaceful and open minded if your country wad overrun with millions of people ypu didn't know and had to provide everything for, forever.
I'd be very interested in seeing a list of every article and every publication that just a year ago called SBF and FTX crypto geniuses.
lol even 3 months ago
They will right up there with all the articles about the Covid vaccines being 100 per cent safe and effective, and that there was no way Covid could have come from a Chinese lab on accident, much less on purpose.
Scroll down the Financial News CZcams sites by date brother. I did and, it's exactly like it was full steam ahead, it's clear sailing.
They didn't even touch on SBF's mom and all her political connections. That's the reason FTX got started in the first place.
"Bitcoin ain't nothin' but soybeans on the computer!" 🤣🤣🤣
"We're all suckers looking to become scammers."
Excellent.
Jewish identity in a nutshell
@@deeznutz8320 I can only speak for myself, and I'm not Jewish.
We are not yucking anyone's yums, I snort laughed. I am using this line from here on out. LOVE IT!
David Dayen! One of the best & one of my favorites.
Really enjoyed the interview with David. He reminds me of that favorite teacher you have in high school/ college who is very knowledgeable yet still approachable, naturally funny, and enjoyable to learn from. I could listen to him talk with Jon for another hour, and I loved their rapport and conversation.
So glad John is speaking on these issues,we need more voices like John in these times🙏
🤝Tʜᴀɴᴋꜱ Fᴏʀ Wᴀᴛᴄʜɪɴɢ, Sᴇɴᴅ ᴀ Tᴇxᴛ Oɴ Wʜᴀᴛꜱᴀᴘᴘ Wɪᴛʜ Tʜᴇ Nᴜᴍʙᴇʀ Aʙᴏᴠᴇ.👆👆✙1727𝟺𝟹𝟽𝟾𝟹86📊📊❤️❤️.,
Thank you. Very important (and entertaining) podcast. Need more like it!
Great to see David Dayen on the podcast. Enjoy his appearances on the Majority Report.
The Majority Report is nothing but stagnant snark & prattle.
Too bad they kept out the part where SBF and his "girlfriend" and others living at the SBF fun house in the Bahamas were screwing each other and popping amphetamines like pez dispensers.
That was one of the funniest intros I’ve seen on this entire podcast series. I was rolling 😂
Happy Hanukkah, "Jon". We love all your shows. Keep up the excellent work.
These two guys roasted that Liver guy with so much ease and clarity. That was amazing.
I haven’t heard a “Chauncey Gardener” reference in a very long time. “Being There” is one of my favorite Peter Seller’s movies.
One of the biggest books I have is about 700 pages of "Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds", originally published in 1841. While all the mad schemes have commonalities, this 'crypto' thing reminds me of John Law's paper money fiasco in King Louie's time which very nearly bankrupted France. John Law was a rogue, but I think his paper money-thing was not understanding it only had value if it was well accounted for -- which no-one apparently did.
It's a wonderful book...I think you just reminded me to read it again.
Great conversation and chemistry between you and David. Message received. No crypto.
It's the roaring 20's all over again, now the roaring 2020's! Some of the signs for a depression are already here too- The markets gone crazy from deregulation, too much percentage of the markets devoted to futures and speculation, the huge gap between rich and the rest of us, tax evasion and not high enough wealth taxes, and very few politicians and unions that fight for workers. In fact, I have a friend in the real estate business that attends many online Zooms with bankers and they're already using the D word.
In 2008-09 trillions of dollars of wealth was vaporized and ever since then we've had record low interest rates from nearly every Central Bank on earth. If 14 years of record low interest rates doesnt scream "Denial Depression" to you then perhaps you need to have your hearing checked.
From deregulation? How about from ridiculous monetary policy from the fed?
@@atlmember4045 if they weren't hawkish right now we'd be fd in the short term.
@@atlmember4045 What brought about the monetary policy? Not from deregulation leading to the 08 crash?
@@aquafishcspeia2921 the federal reserve. The government also was primarily responsible for 08. When are you people going to learn that only by taking control of your life and accepting the responsibility that comes with it can you avoid being screwed. These regulators are not on your side.
John Stewart! You’re one of my heroes. Thank you for every single sacrifice you’ve made to keep me informed. You deserve the highest honors.
Could not have said it better. Ditto that for me.🙏❤️
I especially loved when he fawned over two lady war criminals snd pinned a metal on a nazi at Disney.
He WAS one of mine too until he sold out. His interview with Clinton and Rice was disgraceful.
agreed!!
Did he become your hero the moment he placed a medal on that neo-Nazi Ukrainian Azov Batallion member at Disney World in August?
Thanks for the chapters and road map. It makes the pod so much better.
My new fav pod! Thanks Jon! You’re a legend ser!
thank you John- what a delightful way to start the day with laughter- your podcast is awesome
The age of scams is a very annoying time to live in!
😆 Don't get a time machine.
CZcams purposely designed itself to be a scammers paradise. they'd rather have self serving scam artists, instead of truth tellers that will tank corporations profits.
Just found your show about a week ago. Couldn’t be happier. Thanks for making me laugh and educating me at the same time.
Great reporting, as usual David doesn't disappoint.
David Dayen! Effing finally. Some good effing content. More of this please.
I love Jon Stewart so much! "It does show that we all really are connected."
David Dayen is great, I've been listening to and reading his work for years.
Finally, you have someone on who is not a corporate schill. David D speaks the truth to power.
This is the best content I've seen on CZcams in weeks. Keep 'em coming Jon.
Well, there's lots of stuff on here that's as good, and some of it is even also political. Find Pod Save America for the best political stuff. As for other stuff, there's current science (Dr. Becky, Anton Petrov, Sabine Hossenfelder, etc.), and history (World of Antiquity, Stefan Milo, North02, etc.), and so much more on here. YT is a great source of information! You've got Royal Institute and SciShow side by side on here, for example. The highest technical lectures down to explanations for the layperson - it's all here!
@@MaryAnnNytowl Too bad CZcams's turned dirty.
Fun Fact: The Ontario's Teacher's Fund gained $500,000,000 when it divested from GameStop during the boom. It lost $95,000,000 on FTX.
@@maxmartin2763 Yeah but in this day and age if they are playing in these areas then sooner or later they will get burned.
@@maxmartin2763 I'm not disagreeing with any of that. It sounds more like its a sovereign wealth fund than a pension fund.
I might be Australian but I went to college in America and have worked in Canada. The major fundamental difference between Canada and America is difference in risk taking. Americans are impulsive while Canadians have functioning brain cells.
There is only 1 exception I know to that general rule and that's when a Canadian is holding a hockey stick. Hand a Canadian a hockey stick and their brain switches into some other mode.
Its why America wont ever invade Canada. Even the US Marines don't want to mess with packs of marauding Canadian hockey mums.
@@maxmartin2763 Sorry you went to Michigan I went to U. Illinois and got a real degree. 🤔
Do you watch Mark Blyth, Patrick Boyle or Gary Stevenson?
Mark's a Scottish professor of political-economy at Brown.
Patrick's a former hedge fund manger.
Gary was formerly Citibank;s #1 trader in the world.
I did aerospace engineering, but did Econ 101 as an option. It was so much BS that it put me off economics for 30+ years. Finally I got tired of the crap that people with economics and business degree threw in my face so I wanted to learn their language. I found Mark a great source. He also does podcasts with other academics and people who write books. I more recently found Patrick and Gary.
A couple of things I have found and feel free to correct me or comment.
1) Economics and business education is dominated by a very narrow set of ideas that we now call neoliberalism. It started as Reaganomics and Thatcherism. This has left the business world without much lateral thinking ability which is why they could not adjust much after 2008. If you consider Marks economic computer analogy they rebooted the system and did a patch when we really needed an upgrade.
2) There are some people trying to come up with new ways to look at economics. Most notably MMT and yes I have Stephanie Kelton's book "the Deficit Myth." On MMT I am the same as Mark Blyth. I am *NOT* convinced they have the answers but I am sympathetic to it because they are at least trying to view the issues from other perspectives.
3) The current energy crisis is a direct consequence of neoliberal economics. They have tried to treat *EVERYTHING* as a commodity and people like Karl Polyani said that's crap a century ago when he said you can't treat labour as a commodity because they are human beings. This mistake has also been done with Water and Electricity (W&E) which are fundamental inputs to EVERY link in EVERY supply chain.
My conclusion is: W&E should not be seen as commodities to be exploited for maximum profit but resources to be efficiently distributed by agencies free of political bias and machinations. If they are Milton Freidman style run for maximised profit then that increases the costs of EVERY LINK in EVERY supply chain in EVERY Economy. Every business and household suffers those increased expenses. I like to point out the number of W&E bills in a bottle of milk. At its simplest - farmer, trucker, processor, bottle maker, cap maker, label maker, trucker, storehouse, trucker, supermarket & your fridge. If you add in the full supply chain for the bottle it gets horrendously complex.
The mistake has been to think of those W&E costs, which are quite small per unit of production, as insignificant. EXCEPT when added across the supply chains they aren't, they are in the Billions of dollars.
There's also another huge issue. When it comes to electricity generation there's several levels that non-engineers (DO NOT* consider. There's big large scale bulk supply units that have little flexibility (baseload) and smaller flexible units (dispatchable generation). If you look at the economics small power stations are quick to build and can be very profitable, *BUT NOBODY* in the private sector can invest in new large bulk supply power stations. Hinkley Point C (at £26 billion) is one of the very few being built anywhere. it took 7 years to approve & design and will take 10 to build and wont be ready until 2028.
Without Government subsidies and money NOBODY can build those sorts of power stations, they just take too long to build and its impossible for anyone to invest that much money and see NOTHING for that long.
As a result across the entire developed world there's a vast array of ageing power stations getting closer and closer to where they simply cannot keep running because of age. In Australia we have plans to close 5 of our largest 8 left, we've already shut another one down. *We DO NOT have a single proposal on the table to consider, let alone approve, let alone start building anything.*
What economists and others don't get is that engineers just can't whip stuff out of thin air. These things take time and the one thing we are out of is time. I have checked the power stations situation in other places like California and France and they are in just as much trouble if not MORE than Australia.
This is the sort of thing I'd love to have a panel discussion with people like you, Patrick Boyle, Mark Blyth and Jon Stewart for the simple fact he would get it heard.
@@maxmartin2763 I just watched this and even went and downloaded the BIS report. All he got wrong was which page its on in the report.
czcams.com/video/fLGMxH9KFa8/video.html
FARK - I'm an aerospace engineer and trained to deal with big numbers and comprehend some fairly out there stuff *but this stuff is insane.*
Just for a lark last year I worked out that a standard 20ft container stacked with cash is basically $1 Billion. I was trying to give people an idea what that $47 Trillion mentioned in that famous/infamous Rand Report about wages and wealth growth actually physically looked like. As in if Jeff Bezos walked into his bank and asked for $1 Billion in cash how big would his wallet need to be? And it works out you'd need a 20ft container for a wallet if you wanted to walk around with $1 Billion in cash.
With that in mind its pretty easy to calculate what various container ships can carry in terms of cash. The latest Golden Class boats like the one that blocked the Suez Canal last year at 24,000 TEU (20ft equivalent units) can carry $24 Trillion over the horizon. They were 1-1/2 times bigger than the previous generation and more than double the size of the generation before that.
So what we have is a bunch of banks & businesses with 4 mega boat loads of cash *THAT NOBODY KNOWS ABOUT* hidden behind a fog bank sailing towards a reef with no lights, no radar and no GPS, while they ignore the guy in the lighthouse telling them to turn around.
Did you see this other interview Jon Stewart had with Steve Hanke?
czcams.com/video/m4MahOuEdVw/video.html
It was 1 of 2 times he had Hanke on.
How is it that none of this is in the main stream media and the first I have heard about it is on CZcams channel a week after this report is published? You'd think a report like this would have financial news people bouncing off the walls.
No one can afford this stuff.
@@maxmartin2763 On the stuff about nuclear safety.
I started with a degree in aerospace but work in industrial control systems and automation. When you see those news stories of people in control rooms with pretty screens of the plant. I'm the guy who designs, builds and programs that stuff.
I am also qualified on the safety systems that sit on top of those systems to take over if things get out of control.
1) We have never been able to replace the human in the control room. All we can do is make their job better and easier and more efficient. The same has happened with pilots and I also have a pilots license. Automation does *NOT* replace the human it just makes them more efficient.
2) The whole AI stuff is bunk. We are as close to AI as amoebas are to being chess grand masters. What we do have are algorithms that can mimic specific human tasks. They are especially well suited to abstract things where the boundary is well defined. This is why things like facial recognition works. Asking any person if 2 pictures are or aren't the same face is fairly abstract but that actual task has a clearly defined boundary - that face.
3) Energy is a nightmare and its a nightmare everywhere because we need to solve several very complex issues at the same time.
a: there's the economists who are mind-trapped in their dogma that the free market will somehow magically fix the problem;
b: there's the billionaire class who keep interfering via the media they control;
c: there's the various special interest groups who keep interfering however they can;
d: there's the politicians who are trapped by either the billionaires or the special interests.
e: NONE of them realise or want to hear about the mess they have created and that makes it impossible for us engineers to explain you can't just buy a power station like you by a car. These are substantial lumps of stuff that can't just be whipped out of thin air.
You 3 together are a massive platinum coated gold nugget, sprinkled in whole diamonds! I'm GENUINELY angry CZcams only suggested this channel to me a couple of days ago, with me loving this so much! But I'm HAPPY because I now have tons of podcasts to listen to!
I’m loving this. So spot on. About scammers of all types. The Liver King. Liver and testicles I’m laughing my ass off
Ayyyyyyyyye LOVE the American Prospect and one of the few news sources that i actually subscribe too! Love to see them get recognition
“The liver king”? Every time I look someone up I’ve never heard of and realize they’re a “TikTok star,” I am relieved I never use TikTok
The crap is piling up so fast, no one has a big enough shovel
@@vincentsnow8436hahaha, so true. TikTok OMG 🤦♂️
Same people on Google shorts now
💯 same!
I never had Tik tok installed, still I know abt him lol. At one point the utube algo will show it to you, if u watch certain other stuff. He was any many podcasts, u couldn't really avoid the guy kinda.
Very informative and, as always, very funny! Dayen was explained in a way making it relatable. Thanks for making this subject digestible (less the liver and testicles).
The Liver King story killed me! Great stuff!
Wow. Great job Jon. What a sleazy bunch. But hey-it's just crypto with next level skid-greasing-what can go wrong?
Dayen is whip smart. Big fan of the Prospect.
Loved your guests. Great show.
The Liver King explanation, and how excited the guys were to explain him to Jon, was worth the price of admission all the way. Jon needs to sub to Derek from MPMD
Great interview. Thanks Jon, et al ❤
Keep on nailing it! Great work.
"BITCOIN ain't nothing but soybeans on the computer"...I can't breathe lol
I hope you get 1 million subscribers Asap. You’ve earned that, years of honesty! 🤗🙏🎉
This is the development of new talent. Always fun and interesting to enjoy. Thanks Jon
Fantastic guest. This was a great interview.
Great interview on a very important topic Jon. Love the channel. Keep up the good work.
that's crazy. I've straight up never heard of Liver King till this podcast 🤣
Jon is great at everything he goes it’s incredible i usually don’t like zoom interviews but Jon’s so entertaining
No. He's a guy who used to have great liberal writers. Now he's living an ivory-tower-shitlib's life and getting things Soooooo wrong. Watching CNN and MSNBC, whadaya wanna bet. Not subscribed to or following any independent journalists. Pinning medals on Nazis.
🤝Tʜᴀɴᴋꜱ Fᴏʀ Wᴀᴛᴄʜɪɴɢ, Sᴇɴᴅ ᴀ Tᴇxᴛ Oɴ Wʜᴀᴛꜱᴀᴘᴘ Wɪᴛʜ Tʜᴇ Nᴜᴍʙᴇʀ Aʙᴏᴠᴇ.👆👆✙1727𝟺𝟹𝟽𝟾𝟹86📊📊❤️❤️.
"Crypto's just soybeans on the computer" made me spit out my coffee 🤣
Soybeans are useful, though. You can feed 'em to livestock or human beings, both, and growing them is good for the soil, too. Nothing about bitcoin was ever useful, except for the ones that got rich from it and then ran with the spoils.
@@MaryAnnNytowl
But they got rich because people decided it was valuable. Just like gold or any commodity.
Thankful so much for this show!
Had to look up a pic of the Liver King... Their description is correct 💯
OMG the scammers have taken over this comments section, BEWARE
Thanks for the warning!
Report them. We have to keep reporting them, so they get taken down.
Having Jons face pop up in recommendations is like a visit from an old friend.
This is very good. I appreciate it Jon.
David Dayen is excellent at his job. He’s always in command of the facts.
Thanks again you guys this was brilliant.
and just like that.....I'm in a good mood.
THANKS John ..... long time follower
Ive been a fan from the start. Love to see the growth.
Excellent coverage on this. What a cyclone of corruption.
As an older gentleman myself (in spirit, anyways), I'm glad to have this whole liver king thing explained. Bc I've heard about this, the fact that there's some scandal. But didn't care enough to look into it myself.
They don’t even really do it Justice. The emails more so than simply exposing steroids were worse because they showed he actively planned the steroids to become the liver king persona. It was before he ever created his social media. And he meticulously discussed his plans and how the steroids would help in the plans. And the level of steroids he was taking was more than a lot of competitive bodybuilders. It was immense. But what really made the emails bad too was that he continualllt claimed liver king persona did nothing for his supplement business and that it grew on its own. But the emails explicitly show that all of it was to build that business. No surprise but very explicit view of just how much he was lying to people.
Love David Dayen💙
11:00 I have always thought of crypto as the 21st century version of the tulip mania.
3:48: The exact moment John thought "I'm in the wrong f*cking business."
amazing episode ❤❤❤
Big fan of David Dayen's reporting. You guys have got to get Ken Klippenstein on sometime.
Klippenstein's a good one too 👏 The American Prospect, The Intercept, The Lever… and watch the Majority Report
Jon and David 👏🏽Heard Lex and caffeezilla but this was definitely more insightful going beyond SBF.
the "food for thought" Jon Stewart is greatly missed from TV you definitely were a champion of the little man. Got you here but ... Daily Show !
SBF's job before FTX was as a quant trader at one of those market maker firms that Jon talked about in the Wall Street episode. No doubt that's where he learned the tricks to legally pulling off the fraud that he did.
You realize also who his and Almeda girls parents were?
I have been wondering how long it would take for the Paperwork Reduction Act to turn from inane to insidious. Crypto really does lead the pack
Excellent interview!
Brilliant and sobering. God bless all diligent citizens such as yourselves. And brilliant laughs too.
Just a note on the liver king. He was doing more than 15k a month on his cycle. The 15k a month was just his HgH, he was doing about 7-8 other things as well so we are talking minimum 20k a month.
I can’t believe he hasn’t dropped dead yet from all the crap he’s putting in his body.
@@shangobunni5 well longterm it certainly isn't good for him. What happens when you take so many anabolics is your left vetrical chamber in your heart grows and becomes "floppy". It becomes a much harder task for your heart to oxygenate your blood and is why so many bodybuilders die from massive heart failure.