EV BATTERY degradation TEST on 97,000 miles Tesla Model 3 Long Range using service mode HEALTH TEST.
Vložit
- čas přidán 5. 03. 2024
- I complete a battery degradation test on my 97000 miles Tesla Model 3 Long Range using the Tesla service mode battery health test.
At the start of 2021 I created Chargeheads to ELECTRIFY petrolheads essentially get more car enthusiasts into electric cars. An Electric Petrolhead if you like....A CHARGEHEAD!!!!
To start I decided to do an EV conversion and went on an amazing journey visiting many of the big companies in this field.
I selected the not so well known TVR Tasmin 350i, AKA the Wedge (#tvrwedgee ) to electrify after careful consideration of other cars. As I already had a TVR Griffith which I enjoyed driving and with my passion for raw, powerful, tail happy cars with no driver aids TVR was the obvious choice when selecting a car to electrify.
The 2nd build is the #SpecialTrikee project a 1970's BSA Aerial 3 Tricycle Scooter that me and my mate Vinny have turned into a e-Trike. I use this for local trips and it's a load of fun. Mrs Chargehead calls it my special scooter.....that originally had a 50cc two stroke motor and has a 250 watt motor in it, of course.
The Latest project is Rustee #RusteeTesla the Tesla build to make a Model 3 Long Range....well.....better! Better in looks, handling and performance while keeping her a monster mile daily and the efficiency intact. Focusing again on modifying with used parts to keep it green, where possible.
I hope to not only entertain with ChargeheadsUK Channel and the #TVRWedgee, #SpecialTrikee and #RusteeTesla builds, but also to inspire watchers to create their own greener transport.
With the help of leaders in their field like Ralph Hosier (Engineer, designer, builder of special vehicles, teacher, writer, TV presenter and trouble maker.
Ralph teaches Electric and Hybrid Vehicle Training (IMI Techsafe), builds some amazing one off projects and most of all is a top bloke!
He's the engineer behind #TVRWedgee the Electric TVR.
So let the fun begin......safely in a controlled environment using the right EV safety equipment! ;0)
Did I mention myself and Ralph have also done an EV Conversion safety video as well
#TVRWedgee #ChargeheadsUK #Specialtrikee #RusteeTesla - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I have a Model 3 SR+ 50Kw from late 2019. Odo 93800 mi currently.
Doing those health tests is great to prove to a prospective buyer on the spot that it's worthy, but honestly a better test is to just charge it regularly yourself. How I calculate:
Drive the car down to 10%, charge on overnight rate to 100% and then I look at what my Wall Connector says it's charged total for the session (cross check with the app - it also tells you the total charged there as per the car itself - however I've spotted this can be skewed by cold cell capacity recapture).
So a pretty significant depth of charge, not one I like to do often but I did it after a year with mine. I saw 39kw charged in that 90%. I do 39/0.9 to accomodate the remaining 10% it didn't charge = 43.3kw full 0-100% charge on mine. Ok and Tesla squirrel away approx 3kw below 0% as a safety buffer (hence YT vids of it continuing around 12-14 miles below 0), it varies per car and battery but that's a good average. So 46.3kw total complete battery capacity from 100% down to completely depleated.
Take that range of 46.3kw and divide by original capacity of 50kw = 93% health, battery has lost approx 7% due to degradation in almost 94k miles, pretty good for me! I still get over 200 miles on some long drives if I really push it during warmer months :) I know there are also some heat-losses involved when charging but tbf these are almost impossible to account for. As long as you're charging on a slower charger i.e. 7.7kw or less, it shouldn't be massively significant unlike a supercharger.
A great summary of your experience, thanks for sharing.
Charging loss is still significant due to AC / DC conversion, inverter having to being powered during whole charging session etc. It's estimated to be around 10%.
Please redo the test when its summer or warmer. It would be interesting to know. My range at 80% dropped from 240 miles to 225 miles between summer and now. Not sure if degradation or temperature related
Temp related I reckon although not sure its shown a drastic affect of my range figure, has on my efficiecy though. Summer 239 vs 270 ish summer vs winter
I have a 2021 M3 LR , did the health check after 45,000km and achieved 98% I almost never DC fast charge and was happy with my health check results.
Nice, in my previous video it shows the split between AC and DC charging
Is dc fast charging is that the difference between them ?
@@benjaminbenson8914 so many variables if youre talking about what affects battery health.
I rarely take mine below 25% capacity. Only 4 or 5 times have I gone to single figures. Once to 0% and with
"Stop the car safely battery exhausted" warning signs I still managed 3 miles (at little more than walking pace) to the nearest charger in Bath! That was close call. The MG5 starts warning you once you get below 25% and below 17% says "low battery please be charging" lol
@@williamarmstrong7199 i did 0% for 3 miles once to i try to keep above 20% but doesnt always work
Great video Tim - Got there in the end! Thats not bad considering 100k miles 👌
Yes it was a cuffuffle 🤣
Awesome video, mate
Thanks mate, cant wait for the 100,000 tick over so I can do an overview. Regardless still loving it! 😉⚡️💯
pretty good after 97k, what’s that in useable mileage ? I have a 2022 Y LR and i love it 😻
Great cars.
I think I may have missed it in the video. What is your charging routine? What percentage do you charge to typically? Also, what is your regular depth of discharge?
Generally charging to 80% since i bought it at 56k discharging i would say to on average 10 to 20% most of the time
@@chargeheadsuk thank you for taking the time to respond :)
@@gpalmer456 you're welcome 👍
Control; 50% charge, a departure preheated battery, plugged in, average yearly temps? Environment controls compare to last health test?
Thanks for sharing. Coming up 100 000 miles in a couple of weeks, might as well try another test 😉
That's not bad. I think that is average for Model 3. Mine is at 88.6% and my car has 120k miles. Using a tracking service, I'm plotting on the same line as others. Using service mode, it'll probably show 85-86% so probably similar to your car. The range really hasn't affected any road trips either.
Thats good to know, thanks for sharing
Lithium ion batteries are considered bad at 80% because it becomes impossible for the cells to balance
Hi, first, thank you for trying this. It seemed to be more of an exercise in how not to do it though. I assume there is a Tesla service write up about how to run this test? I'm not sure I'd even want to run it, seems rather stressful both for the car, any neighbours and the owner!
I could have made it perfect, however i think thr mistakes I made will help others 🤷♂️
Awesome
Thanks for your support 🙏🙏
Just charge to 100% and set your miles per kw and set your trip mileage too. Then drive as low as you can. So if you drive 220 miles at 4.5 miles per kw, you simply divide 220 by 4.5 and that will give the usable battery. Plus if you have 5% left you do a prorate on that. So it’s probably 50 kw. Then divide by what ever it was as new.
There are certainly a few ways off doing it.
What are your charging habits? 86% seems above average for that many miles. Unless it's a bit older, that might be in line with calendar aging, i forget if you mentioned the year in the video. Also you may have skewed the results a bit, those final few percentage points take a long time because the BMS is stuffing every last electron into the battery and top-balancing all the cells at the same time.
Sept 2019 69 plate is the age
The error message 'unable to charge, maximum charge level reached' with 30 miles range showing is the one to wait for
So I hear. My cars done 101,000 now
Awesome 😎
Thanks for your support 🙏
Where did you get those white rim caps?? 😃
EVQUIP 👍
you can roughly calculate the battery capacity in Kilowatt-hours using the energy app on the tesla screen. In the energy app go to consumption and set it to average range and 30 miles. Multiply the average what-hour per mile by the projected range. This gives the kilowatt-hours remaining in the battery at its current state of charge. You can then divide this number by the battery percentage, then multiply the result by 100 and that's your total battery capacity in kilowatt-hours. You can then compare this to the rated capacity for your model/trim. This does vary quite a bit though so its better to collect several measurements over time and use an average. My Model 3 showed about 5 kilowatt-hours lower than the rated spec even when it only had about 10,000 miles so this method probably isn't that accurate but should show change over time if you collect the numbers regularly.
Certainly another method. I think the two i did gave a good indication. However really, if the car does the range you need, its all good 🤷♂️
Those wheels on your M3 is real cool. What are those?
From EVQUIP buddy 😉
Great wheel covers!! Few weeks ago I bought a 2023 M3LR but it came with the 19" sports alloys. While they're "better", I kind of wish it had the 18s! As I could get all sorts of cool hub caps like that, ride and battery better. Thanks for the video :)
You can pick up 18's for about 500, 800 with tyres on. I would guess tyres would be cheaper too, but not 100% on that
The big problem is you actually want a battery capacity test, where basically you measure the amp hours between fully charges and fully flat, buts you also need to know what this is when new (batteries are never fully fully charged to increase their life)... but the end of the day the SOH is meaningless does the car have the range you need yes/no? the chances are its going to be yes as the battery is HUGE ... unless you go on lots of very long journeys and don't have a bladder :)
A very good point, at the end of the day whatever battery % it is currently it has plenty of range for me. Great comment 👍
I keep it simple by just recording yearly full charge mileage currently 1% after 3 years
But I thought the battery would only last for
four years!
I know right, unpresidented 🤣
And don’t they cost more than the car to replace 😂
I wonder what your degradation according to TeslaFi would be for comparison
One try try next perhaps
Impatient is a gross understatement. Don’t let the sound of your own wheels drive you crazy!
Too late for that
@@chargeheadsuk It stands as a testament to your enthusiasm, effervescence and drive. It’s probably part of the reason you do projects, have a YT channel and get stuff done! I for one would like a tea spoon or two of that energy, so I try to drink it in vicariously through videos like you make. Take care and don’t the sound of your own wheels make you crazy.🤪 👍
According to Carscanner my e-niro, after 60k miles, has lost 4% so I would say you have pretty poor degradation, especially as a Tesla should look after it's battery better than a Kia with all its preconditioning etc. I wonder if it has been rapid-charged too often?
Tesla run the total and usuable battery total KWhquite close i hear, so perhaps a better representation of battery health than other brands.
Good point!
OK MG5 in use as a taxi. 3 years 5 months old. 135531 miles today. Last battery SOH came back 100% at 133400 miles.
Previous was 80% (at 121400) however the mechanics might have recorded the SOC not SOH.
According to the MG mechanics at MG dealers (since 1947) using a 7 KWh charger only balances the battery pack to 80% to fully balance the pack it needs charging to full on a 3 pin 10 amp charger a couple of times a month. It seems to work.
Along with booting the car to 100% power when fully charged. The sudden demand on the battery pack when fully charged breaks or damages the lithium dendrites that cause battery degradation.
Mine is an MNC battery pack and it gets charged to 100% sometimes more than once a day!
A battery pack can only balance itself when 100% charged (it needs to remain on charge for several hours past fully charged also.
I occasionally rapid charge usually just a splash and sash though. When we met at Milton Keynes it charged to 96% on the rapid I have only gone that high on rapid a few times before.
Interesting
Gonna give this a go also, looks like I'll have to be patient 😭
100% 🤣
Bro what are these rims?
I got them from EvQUIP 😉⚡️👍
You are not only impatient, you may also have made the test fail.
"Do not interact with the car."
This includes getting in and out, faffing about in the screen and other shenanigans. Better luck next time. 24 hours to go...
Maxium faff 100% completed 😉
I use a simpler method, don't know what it's worth. I charge the Tesla with 50% gain in soc, and read the amount of kWh added in the Tesla app. Times two is how much you can put into the battery....
Ill be doing another soon. As done 103k now
9 or 10% after 100k miles on a tesla isn't unusual.
My m3lr shows 322 at 100% charge. 61000 miles.
Thanks for sharing, what year is it?
@@chargeheadsuk 2021
86% is pretty good after 100k miles. At that rate you'd only be 1/8 of the way through the life of the battery, I wouldn't have no complaints if I needed a new battery/car after 800k miles
Battery Health doesn’t work like that . 80% you will need a new battery at £30,000.
@@ypres25011111Nope it just means that instead of a 300 mile range, he now has 240.
@@Nick_Smith1970 its actually 277 when full. 🤔 And have done a 260 mile trip to Bristol a couple of weeks ago stating at 95% ending on 2%
@@chargeheadsukYeah, I just did a simple calc of 80% of 300 miles as a guestimate.
@@ypres25011111why £30k? Where did you get that price from?
Haven't they just found a way of restoring the battery by leaving it completely flat for a short time?
Maybe Tesla will write a program for it.
I heard something similar
Have you done any mileage degradation tests on a comparable petrol suv with 97000miles? It’s reasonable to expect greater than 10% range loss in petrol vehicles at 100000 miles… why doesn’t anyone talk about that when bashing battery degradation in ev’s?
Because it doesnt suit their narrative most likey 🤷♂️
They really don’t. My 2000 diesel vw with 240,000 miles gets the same fuel efficiency as new. Eventually, there will be a reduction in fuel economy but it’s 100s of thousands of miles. If at all.
@@Bigdaddyweldz it would be good to find some stats on that. My Tesla passed 100k yesterday and i drove it to Newcastle and back only one stop bth ways for circa 25 mins i stopped again both ways and didnt charge. And electric cars havent enough range, I don't get these people
@@chargeheadsuk People think every ev is like the leaf.
@@Bigdaddyweldz thats a bloody good shout
You dont do a health check unless the battery is around 70F. No duh it showed low battery health when its 3C out.
Very useful, thanks. Not sure that many people know this. Wheres the source of information to explain?
@@chargeheadsuk Literally any site that shows battery capacity vs temperature......and literally everyone knows the battery looses capacity in cold. So 10,000 IQ move on your part doing a capacity test in the cold, then complaining its low.
@@silvy7394 i hope you watch my next one then, so you can give me some more feedback and another bashing 🤷♂️
State of health check takes 2 minutes in my Nissan Leaf with Leafspy 🙂
My neighbors leaf battery went bad after two years now it will take 6 month to a year to replace
Well if you watch the previous video on the scan my Tesla app its that same kinda thing. I guess this is a more rigerous test
I think this is quiet big degradation right ??
Not that bad. The warranty on most EVs now ensure that the battery is at least at 70% after 8 years or 100k miles.
@@Nick_Smith1970 so what is happening if someone wants to buy an ev with 150 000 miles like a second hand
@@vasileiospetropoulos2046 watch my last video back a couple as my friend bouhht a 220,000 mile one and the battery is at 84%. Stats suggest the battery degradation slows down after the first 100k. But will continually report mine.
@@vasileiospetropoulos2046There are companies repairing batteries now, and giving a further 12 month warranty on them.
So you either buy a re-furbed battery or get yours repaired. But personally, I wouldn't buy an EV with no battery warranty. They all have an 8 year / 100k mile warranty now, but I wouldn't buy one with 150k miles on it, unless it had already had the battery replaced.
Having said that, some people buy cars with 150k miles on them, and the engine could fail at any moment. The cost of a BMW 335d engine from BMW, with all the bits, like turbos, fuel pump, injectors etc + laour is around £27k. (I know because I drowned mine in a puddle)
A replacement EV battery will more than likely ne less than that very soon. The cost of them is falling.
@@vasileiospetropoulos2046 you check the battery for safety but it will probably have a fantastic price, enough so that you could buy a new battery. Batteries have hit £100kwh. So if you get a Tesla Model S with a battery thats needs to be changed, itll be sub £15k, sub £10k probably. Get a new battery for £10-15k and youve got yourself an essentially brand new Tesla for £30k...
My EV is on 76000 and showing less than 3% degradation 😊
Thats impressive, what EV is it?
@@chargeheadsuk MG5. Almost entirely 7kW charging and no hard acceleration. Everything to keep the battery healthy.
Battery degradation can be caused by poor cooling battery system. Has Tesla checked the battery cooling system for you.
Great comment, I don't think they did when it was in last year to change a bush, however it did have a Cleevely EV service around September. I have Matt Cleevely on Chargeheads Live next Thursday 8pm, so will ask if thats part of the check list
Is that a real Banksy on your wall😂
Amazon authentic 🙈
I wish there was independent tool it could be bought to measure degradation
We haven't Created Tesla software there for it Benefits Tesla not us
Tesla has no incentive to Brag about it's own battery degradation
However Degradation is not major Concern for me, because I ve see multiple Teslas failing and it's not Gradual, 1 minute you are driving on the next minute you get multiple errors saying multiple bits are disable pull over safely
Please give more info about these multiple Tesla's. Number, Model, miles and age?
These sort of glitches are typical of any computer based system, but to me this looks like a Tesla scam - a great way of telling customers who don't know any better that the test takes 24 hours and come with a bill to reflect that.
Here's the thing with degeneration. It might only be a small amount to begin with, but then they get to a certain point and then start to degrade very quickly. People see figures like 5% degradation over, say, 80k miles and think that means that they will only degrade by 5% for every 80k miles driven. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way, and that's why I think the environmental claims are just not true, because I can see 8-10 year old EVs with, say 120-150k miles on them getting dumped because buyers are not going to spend a few grand on a car that one day soon may need another 20k spending on new batteries.
Even now in these early days we regularly see tales of cars getting scrapped with faulty batteries or minor accident damage because it's just not financially viable to replace them. When we're all forced into EVs I think it's going to be a total fck fest.
On average, in the UK, cars get scrapped before 150K mileage anyway. Personally I think there is very little global environmental benefit to us all driving EVs but it will probably reduce air pollution in cities and make for a more pleasant less noisy environment on average. For those with driveways there is a charge convenience aspect and perhaps you can save a bit on maintenance and improved reliability even when you are reckless with maintenance as you literally can be with a Tesla until your MOT advisories or failures tell you what to do. With an internal combustion engine waiting for the latter, I would imagine is going to be far more problematic.
All the complainers in the comments section - wind your necks in................97K miles and only 14% degredation!
Says the 24kWh Nissan Leaf owner..........
We have Dala on the live tonight at 8pm great if youre a Leaf owner 😉
Wouldn’t it be ironic if running that test degrades your battery even more than if you just didn’t do the test at all.
I was thinking that, probably miniscule though
It don’t
It will degrade it as it runs it down to very low % but shouldn't be very much.
It also charges very very slowly which is why it takes so long.
86% after 100k mi? Seems on par with ice
@@TheDiverJim Yep, I know my old VW e-up! had a warranty stating 8 years, 200000km over battery 80% capacity retained. 86% for 156km is better than that. In fact following that estimate one would expect 84.4% health as result and still not be warranting a new battery.
I am unsure if Teslas warranty is as good? I think they say 8 years, 100,000 miles for 70% health last I checked.
says he's Impatient and owns an ev🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Exactly good job i have a Tesla eh 😉
Using tesla software to assess battery health is meaningless. Its just like getting VW software to assess emissions
tesla will have biased the test to avoid warranty claims (as widely pubilcised, they have a whole division dedicated to this function)
The only way to measure battery health on a tesla is to use an independent current measuring device and measure current output from full to empty under standard driving conditions. Then divide thekWh output by the original new battery capacity
Your comment made me laugh, although i worked for a VAG branded dealer group during the emissions scandle I love the comparisson. Lets hope Tesla arent as corrupt as the VAG boys. TBF if you saw my other non Tesla video yuo'll see the comparison 😉
Why bother? Its like a child obsessed with a new toy.
yet here you are
My diesel gives me 600 miles every fillup, has done it for last 19 years. No pissing about with a glorified laptop on wheels. Sails through mot emissions every year and not made by child slave labour.
Every litre of diesel you pour in has been desulphated using lithium.
@@FFVoyager
Lithium has been a byproduct of oil extraction for decades and discarded.
@@garyneedham1282it's not a 'by product' but it is a waste product and it cannot be recycled after its been used and, unlike all the major battery manufacturers, the oil producers are not signed up to the UN human rights mining agreements.
So it's far more likely that child labour is involved in fossil fuel than batteries - from which lithium can be recycled at the end of the batteries useful life.
@FFVoyager
I first worked in the hydro carbon extraction industry in the early 80's and I can assure you that it's is a highly regulated industry and certainly no child labour as you suggest.
@@garyneedham1282you are the one who imagined there was child labour involved. 🙄