Could we ACTUALLY grow potatoes on Mars? | OVERTHINKING The Martian
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- čas přidán 20. 05. 2024
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00:00 - Introduction
01:07 - Is it possible to grow crops in Martian soil?
03:23 - Is human waste as a fertiliser a good idea? (NOPE)
07:16 - What about Mars’ different gravity?
11:30 - Outro
11:52 - Brilliant
13:12 - Bloopers
Fackrell et al. (2020; martian simulant soils) - www.sciencedirect.com/science...
Ramîrez et al. (2017; potatoes grown in martian soils) - cgspace.cgiar.org/handle/1056...
Wieger Wamelink et al. (2014; crops grown in martian and lunar soils) - journals.plos.org/plosone/art...
Mancinelli & Banin (2003; where is the nitrogen on Mars?) -
Foley et al. (2003; Mars Pathfinder finds no nitrogen) - agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.c...
Giroux et al. (2000; the Arthur Clarke Mars Greenhouse) - www.researchgate.net/profile/...
Ferl & Paul (2016; auxin in plants grown on the ISS) - www.nature.com/articles/npjmg...
Kamal et al. (2018; micro-gravity and plant cell damage) - www.nature.com/articles/s4159...
Teacher’s guide to growing plants in martian analog soil: www.proquest.com/docview/2009...
Buy your own martian analog soil: www.themartiangarden.com/
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👩🏽💻 I'm Dr. Becky Smethurst, an astrophysicist at the University of Oxford (Christ Church). I love making videos about science with an unnatural level of enthusiasm. I like to focus on how we know things, not just what we know. And especially, the things we still don't know. If you've ever wondered about something in space and couldn't find an answer online - you can ask me! My day job is to do research into how supermassive black holes can affect the galaxies that they live in. In particular, I look at whether the energy output from the disk of material orbiting around a growing supermassive black hole can stop a galaxy from forming stars.
drbecky.uk.com
rebeccasmethurst.co.uk - Věda a technologie
For those mentioning Perchlorate in Martian soil as well, yes this could be an issue, but it's one that's easily and cheaply solved (and is also a handy source of oxygen if ever needed). I decided not to discuss in the video, but if you want more info this is a great research article about solving the Perchlorate issue in Martian soil (note it's unfortunately behind a paywall, but if you're a student at a university you should have free access): www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-journal-of-astrobiology/article/perchlorate-on-mars-a-chemical-hazard-and-a-resource-for-humans/E4906FAD7F45A9AE8212B9198C6FD4AB/share/179ad00cfe4de975e4f2091e8ad8f25fb71095a4
Easily? Wouldn't it require a lot of liquid water, and won't that be exceptionally difficult to produce and keep liquid? I suggest you make a video focused on this point alone as it's key to the whole problem. We also need to know how to farm on Mars without dying from radiation.
@@MelindaGreen Or better yet, just send robots.
Did it ever occur to you to use your heart and brain and stop destroying and start to help fix this planet instead of wanting to invade more while the already-invaded lands and the once-completely-beautiful planet we were given are being annihilated with your invasions and nonhuman animal products and pollution and fossil fuels and everything? (: 🤦🏼♀️
Saying we know what the Martin soil is made of is not really true, what depth? How many samples compared to surface area? Science is a religion now, climate change is proof of that. It started with cfcs, 4 times heavier than anything in our atmosphere, how do they magically defy gravity?
@@jesslove1181 sigh
Pedantic point incoming - Mars doesn't have soil - 'soil' is an Earth thing. On Mars, it's regolith, which is just powdered rock.
Soil is regolith laced with a large amount of organic compounds built up over time.
I was about to comment the same thing.
Not to mention a whole bunch of living micro-organisms, many of which perform essential functions.
Not to mention the presence of perchlorate.
As an experienced gardener (although not on Mars lol) who loves permaculture I have to say that you are half-wrong about one little thing: It’s absolutely fine to use human waste (and even our remains) as fertilizer IF it was properly composted! You can easily compost it at home, there are even specific toilet systems for it.
Technically there can be residues of certain medications after the composting is done but most will not be an issue. Especially not if you are on Mars ;)
The technique of composting human waste is a bit different though gf you need to make sure nothing contaminates the soil. Interestingly pee is much less problematic than poop. Generally spoken, if you get the heat up high enough in your compost bin the risk for contamination is very, very low.
If we actually send people to Mars and they‘ll grow their own food, I don’t think human waste compost would be a bad idea. Hopefully they don’t discover Mars-Aphids…THAT would be an alien invasion I‘m terrified of!
so animals just doing their business on a garden isn't good?
I'm certain we'll bring out own plagues to Mars
Yep! Natural composting toilets don't even smell like anything except the sawdust/wood chips you use to add carbon. I've used one several times and it was honestly the best smelling toilet I've ever used. No poop smell whatsoever.
Cool I never knew that! Sounds like you need to know what you're doing though, so I feel like me stressing that it's not something you should do was definitely the safer option for the internet.
"... Interestingly pee is much less problematic than poop. .." That also depends on what you eat. Excess salts are discharged with pee, and if your diet has lot of salty foods (essentially all processed foods and much more ), your pee does more harm than good. I actually killed very hardy bush by peeing at its trunk just once(!), couldn't hold it anymore after coming home from long night out with lot of beer and salty bar snacks.
I remember as a kid driving past a sewerage treatment plant and seeing a (to me) strange brown mound with green shoots popping out of it like a pin cushion. I always wondered what that was, when I asked a guy who worked at one later in life he said: "Was probably a faecal sludge pile with tomatoes growing in it. We don't digest the seeds so they make it all the way to the end of the line and suddenly find themselves in a giant pile of compost to sprout in."
Tomatoes man, hardy plants.
Cool
I lived with a wastewater plant operator at one point, one of the things that they do is cook off the solid waste to kill off the pathogens and then they reintroduce bacteria that are necessary for the breakdown of the waste into fertilizer. there are a few other steps that happen but after a few months it turns into one of the best fertilizers we have access to
Composted privie (outhouse) scrapings was apprised fertilizer in England many years ago.
Good luck with that, Mars has sub-freezing temperature, with neither the worms or bacteria.
@@peterbreis5407 Not to mention no air. They obviously need to grow under cover.
What is not shown in the movie but mentioned in the book is that Mark Watney also had a sample of earth soil bc it contains the essential bacteria that wouldn't be present in Martian soil. so mixes that soil with the Martian soil and waited a few days for the bacteria to spread.
I was wondering about that.
I assume there’s essential bacteria in Watney’s poop?
@@greghelton4668 yes "night soil" I believe he called it, ok for one person bc of spreading pathogens. So he used his and what he bought. If i remeber correctly He had about a planters box amount of earth soil for his original experiment to try and grow grasses in the soil, He has whole potatoes bc the mission had them there for thanksgiving and they were for that special dinner. Really good book. Read it you'll love it.
So it ignored that and perchlorates, and the time and complexity and extra power and water to deal with the perchlorates, and it says that a 300knot dust storm on Mars will blow a person and equipment flying across the landscape.
It's a little more realistic than Star Wars, but that isn't saying anything at all.
@@JFrazer4303 well of course some liberties were taken, like the windstorm for instance, The book has more detail on the process he went through that didn't make the movie. but in the end it is a good science sci-fi. more believable trek and wars. say the same level as the expanse.
As a scientist I can confirm that overthinking everything is the very first “skill” one learns in university.
and underthinking seems to be more and more prevelent in the general populace 😞
It's a requirement in project management. All good project managers are bipolar - we have to think about and plan for the worst and then party when it works out as planned. Planning for the worst is not wishing for or encouraging the worst, it means that when bad thinks happen it won't be as bad because you know how to deal with it.
growing anything on Mars is hype! This garbage deflects /diverts the attention from Earth's problems
@@dbadaddy7386 I think that it is a good way to deal with life in general. Have a rough backup plan for most managable cases and party when you don't need to use those plans. Or sometimes even party when there was a backup plan already prepared.
Too bad she forgot to overthink the real issues in growing anything on Mars. Because of the lack of magnetic field, radiation is insane, so you'd have to grown underground. So whether there's Sun light or no, doesn't really matter. Also, the gravity has much worse affect on human living on Mars than the feat of growing something there. Robotic growing is more than possible, but is it useful in any way? If we're gonna put people grow potatoes on Mars, they have to say goodbye to the Earth forever. Flight to Mars takes about 7 months and the bone density is already low. Now, living on mars to have the next window to get back home takes about a year, so the bone density is already too low for most people to get back on Earth. So in total, people would be at least over 2 years on this endeavor from which they'll be on micro gravity at least 14 months. Meaning, no way to survive Earth's gravity. People that go on to Mars to grow potatoes have to live the rest of their lives there. In an underground bunker. Hardly ever seeing the surface, or the sun. Living with a bunch of other people. How long can they live together in harmony, with clear mind? Scientists on Antarctica suffer from Winter-Over Syndrome and they tend to go through the harshest of winter with the power of alcohol. Getting needed amounts of booze for such an endeavor for growing potatoes might not be the first priority, and living 24/7 wasted af is not gonna do very good either. There's bazillion reasons why us growing potatoes on Mars is at least stupid and practically impossible and the ones in this video aren't even very major points cause it can never come to that.
Regarding auxin: its effect is different in shoots and roots, and it becomes inactive in direct light. That causes shoots to grow towards light, and roots towards the soil.
Other phytohormones (cytokinines and gibberellines) are at work too. Basically the plant knows where is soil and where is light.
.........exactly what she explained------but thanks for playing so you could post to try and sound intelligent.
@@chezman3892 I think @gaborfabian1239 explaining the effect of direct light was a useful addition as it also would explain branches growing "out of shadowy places".
In the book he mixed the poop with the Martian dirt and the dirt brought for plant experiments, to develop the bacterial colonies in the soil (rather than just put a scoop of poop in with each potato). The book had more justifications and explanations, definitely a good read.
didn't he also only used his own poop in the book? exactly to avoid the foreign pathogens?
and then they did it anyways in the movie for a cheap joke, i was pretty upset with that
It's too late. 10:58 😊As I recall, the Viking landers weren't sterilized before being sent to Mars (why sterilize the landers if they're going to a dead planet). Thus
@@rapcheenope, in the book he mixes his poop with the Martian dirt. he starts with a small amount and doubles it with more a few times to cover the floor
@@mitchmarq428 yeah no i meant he only mixed in his own fecal matter, and explained it to the reader, it's because other's gut bacteria could cause issues.
I saw an interview with one of the scientists building the mars rovers and the reporter asked why they work in such a sterile "clean room". The answer was, they didn't want to get any contaminants from earth on the spacecraft. Because the last thing you want to do when you're looking for life on another planet, is discover yourself.
what you wrote is very stupid
We sequenced the proteins...and it's conclusive... You *ARE* the father/mother...in fact it's you...😬
Too bad they already did and they speak German.
This is just stupid, we need to go there and terraform the whole planet.
@@Kabup2 Terraforming Earth would be a lot easier.
Great video. For the curious minded, the bended plants that grow on the side of a hill is not bending upwards because they emerge from the soil at a right angle, a plant will come out straight up just as it would do on a horizontal surface. The reason it bends is because the soil keeps moving downhill in temperate climate from continuous thawing/freezing. The perennial plants simply compensates for this by curving upwards through the mechanics described in this video.
Yea in Philly there is a Tree growing out of a wall. It bends & goes straight up once it clears the wall. Nothing growing but it shows the incredible lengths Life will go through to exist.
Great video! Many thanks for researching and explaining this. Congratulations and keep going!
Your ending was silly crazy ❤. These are fun to watch!
I think Andy Weir's plot device of growing crops on Mars was reasonably plausible (perchlorates notwithstanding.) The opening scene of the book (with the dust storm) wasn't plausible because of the very thin atmosphere, but it was sci-fi so it's all fun anyway. What it did was motivate people to get excited about space exploration, so the book and movie get a pass on liberties taken with physics, chemistry and biology.
They needed SOMETHING to strand poor Mark there and Mars is known for its dust storms, so while unrealistic it's something that the popular mind can reasonably accept.
The damage from that dust storm is the main thing that bothered me, too. Weir himself admitted that he knew it was unrealistic. He took that liberty because he needed it as the inciting incident.
Lightning has been photographed in Martian dust storms. Presume the danger was to the MAV operating system, necessitating an early departure. In zero visibility, Mark gets hit by lightning, frying his suits life monitor and comms. He falls on some debris, impaling himself, and gets left for dead.
The perchlorate in the Martian soil is neutralized by watering. Once Mark figures out how to run the recipe for water without blowing himself up, he's in like Flynn. His other problem is that neutralizing the perchlorate releases extra oxygen as a by-product. Luckily, the HAB is equipped with a system for isolating free oxygen. So, his learning curve is likely going to involve a series of small booms & flares, not just one.
Ya, just a "little" problem with perchlorates. IMHO, perchlorates are a show stopper. Realistically, likely all Mars ag will be hydroponic.
Andy Wier did acknowledge the fact that he realized the dust storm problem too late in the publication to change or he would have come up with another way to strand Mark on the planet. It is probably his biggest regret for the book. Other than that the science in the book is valid and well thought out. It’s a great read and audiobook.
Nightsoil (waste that the nightsoilman collected from cesspits) was used historically, but typically not without ageing it first so that other, less dangerous bacteria could outcompete the dangerous ones.
I believe there's a heat process that also can make nightsoil safe, but it's been a LONG time since I fell down that research rabbit hole, so I might be wrong or maybe that's been disproven. IDK
Dad was stationed in Japan in 1953 and we lived on the economy. At that time, the "Honey bucket" man would still come around. Out in the fields there were "fertilizer" pits.
Still used, UK Gov lists "The compost must be maintained at 40°C for at least 5 days including 4 hours at a minimum of 55°C followed by a period to complete the compost reaction process" under the Sewage sludge in agriculture: code of practice guidance.
@@wmpmacm It was that way also in West Germany in the early 1950s.
You can sterilize human waste in a composted but it has to reach certain temperature and time. There are many types of composting toilets that use various approaches. I know that the Applalachian Trail Club operates composting toilets at its camp sites.
My god.. I would love to listen to you after you've had a couple glasses of wine. Matter of fact I'd pay for it. Thanks for all the insight, never a dull moment..
A lot of the issues not covered by the film are covered in the book. They address how he does have some earth soil but nowhere near enough to grow crops, also about the pathogens in fecal matter. He only uses his own waste so as to minimise the risk of embibing pathogens that weren't his.
And as is covered a lot in the story. The risk is tolerable compared to death. (Having an RTG for a travel companion for example)
Overall. Yes, maybe it's not wholely realistic (the film perhaps more so). But it is an awesome story.
I wanted to say that I really appreciate the amount of effort and fact-checking you put in when you stray outside your own field of expertise. It sets an excellent example to follow.
It is bunk a lie and total bs
every rocket of the planet every two years -as in space as highways
(mars belongs to life)
So do you still want to say that?
@@itsROMPERS... (fertilizer is cheap)
The Martian extended edition is even better than the regular one. It is such a good movie and I wish there were more like it.
There is an extended version???? :o
There's an extended version? Where??
The book is even better.
@@mastershooter64 yarr harr digerty gee.
If any Ridley Scott film has an extended version, it can be taken as fact that it's better than the theatrical release XD Dunno whether to call that a curse or a gift.
The auxin explanation was brilliant and very satisfying. Something I've not understood for a very long time!
I bought your book. Your voice is so entertaining and warm. A delight learning science stuff with you. Thanks
She's also sexy
Thanks for the mention in today's video, Dr. Becky! I'm glad my question incited your curiosity enough to make a whole video! I learned something I never considered about the consequences of human microbes on Mars.
I’m surprised there wasn’t more discussion of the perchlorate in the Martian soil, I’ve seen several papers listing it as a primary concern.
You can wash the perchlorates out but then water would be precious and you wouldn't want to contaminate your supply, so using bacteria to break it down would be a better idea. We can't even get rid of perchlorate pollution on Earth though, so it would be even worse on Mars.
Yeah - That's an interesting question. I've seen several videos lately talking about this. Angry Astronaut had a video talking about it also.
Apparently there's an enzyme we can use along with regular water that can "easily" wash the perchlorates out of the regolith and as a nice bonus you get a bunch of oxygen and a few other minor resources from it as well.
It's a totally doable thing to mitigate the perchlorate in the soil there with easy current-tech chemistry.
When Andy Weir wrote the book, there was released data regarding perclorate. The channel "Answers with Joe" had an interview with Weir where they spoke about it. This is still a bit new in terms of research so we shall see what comes about in the next coming years
@@VK-tv1eq Those are normal everywhere. Except for Earth where rain through billion of years has washed it out, causing it to pile up, becoming something called saltwater.
If plants grow in the simulant, then it doesn't appear to be much of an issue. I may have to try this.
I think this is the BEST video of yours that I've ever seen! Thanks! 👍😄
Fascinating. Thanks for doing all the work to educate us. Would love to see a video on Perchlorate in Martian soil. Also, I want to now when you are bringing out an album of songs.
That's so cool! I worked with one of the ecologists who's paper you refered to (Wieger Wamelink) on creating some instructional videos on the topic. Wieger experimented with a whole range of crops. And properties of certain crops (for instance the tolerance for salt or ability to fixate nitrogen) benefit other crops.
He also regularly hosts classes with school children in his greenhouse. They then go back with some simulated soil and do growth experiments in their classroom.
Did the scientists look at if martian soil has the main 9 micro nutrient minerals plants need besides the big 3? Because you aren't going to have any plant life to grow without them. Earth soil has them even if in small amounts which is why cheap fertilizers don't include them(to the detriment of plants). All life on the planet requires cobalt in extremely small amounts mind you but no cobalt no plants growing. Like all life humans also require cobalt, we get it from B12. I wonder if the scientists accounted for this.
It sounds like it would be extremely hard to make such large amounts of mars analogue soil perfectly to account for such composition without tainting it with micronutrients mars soil may not have if using earth substrate to replicate it.
I wonder if the rovers even have given accurate enough analysis of the soil to even be having this conversation lol.
Another issue would be heavy metals. If it has the main minerals required what about the bad ones. One can pretty fast get heavy metal poisoning from eating plants in such soil.
Another important factor close to gravity which affects it is atmosphere pressure. Of course it would be grown in a sealed environment, but the cost to be able to pressurize that greenhouse because of the materials required might lead to not having a very high pressure greenhouse perhaps. Higher the pressure the better the gas exchange and plant growth and production. The famous tomato Japanese experiment that did this and filtered out UV light had a two story giant tree sized tomato plant that produced thousands and thousands of tomatoes. So the pressure in the greenhouse with dramatically affect the yeild and plant growth/size. The experiments clearly used earth pressure.
The lower light can easily be modified with cheaply made reflectors.
I once read a book about some people living off the grid and naturally. One of the writers described how they use a backyard solar oven to cook their own solid waste before using it as garden fertilizer. (It's a dedicated oven, of course, that never gets used for food, only waste.) They had an affectionate name for that little oven, one that I can't repeat here. Let's just say it started with an S and ended with Fryer.
You can say Shit Fryer here, don't worry, we won't tell.
I realise that most animal waste is cooked as is composting which can get up to 60C but the problem is heat kills the bacteria that's beneficial for the soil and plants. Our gut bacteria is apparently the same stuff and this drive to go no-dig, which I have been doing for ten years now, leaves the soil infrastructure undisturbed for better production and healthier plants, instead of genetically altering plants to cope with the dead soil through tilling and plowing leaving dust. Natural fertilizing, returning the bacteria back to the soil and leaving it intact with its root tracts, worm holes and minerals.
There’s only 1/4 the amount of Sunlight on Mars as on Earth and the average temperature is MINUS 81 degrees! Solar ovens won’t work there. And the Earth’s atmosphere is 21% Oxygen. Mars ‘atmosphere’ contains just .17% oxygen, far less than must 1%.
@@jmseipp in The Martian, Watley grew his potatoes under a dome full of Earth-like warmth and atmosphere; so the only factor that *might* have been missing from the movie is a few bright lights over the spuds - or maybe the movie did show the appropriate lighting. I don't remember offhand. The Mars base had enough power (an RTG and lots of huge solar panels) for half a dozen crew and all their labs for months, so it probably had no problem powering grow lamps for one man's food, with most of the rest of the "hab" shut down.
@@chrisschembari2486 There’s only 1/4 the amount of Sunlight on Mars as on Earth so how could solar panels work? What’s the power source to be able to provide warmth? Fossil fuels imported from Earth? The average temp is MINUS 81 degrees! Massive dust storms 6 months per year. Even if Mars had the same amount of Sunlight as Earth Solar Panels won’t work in dust storms.
Glad you mentioned plants on the ISS, that was my first thought too. I'd think that between martian soil simulants and the plants on ISS, we could be confident, dare I say very confident, that plants should grow on mars.
5:06 The low temperatures on Mars do not help whatsoever. Bacteria are perfectly fine being frozen at very low temperatures; as soon as it heats back up they happily resume growth. -80C freezers are commonly used for bacterial stocks, and that's a relatively cold day on Mars (average temp is -60C). The low pressure and desiccation are a bigger deal, but spores can be resistant to that.
All that being said, risking a stomach bug is entirely justifiable under his circumstances. It's still a relatively limited risk, and the tradeoff is actually being able to survive.
There are millions of people who use dung, including human, as fertiliser. Generally speaking there is no problem as long as they take some basic care and cook the food properly. Some places in the UK also use output from sewage works as fertiliser without issue.
In this the people on such a mission are likely to be screened for nasty pathogens.
Where it can becomes an issue is if the raw feces is put into the environment without treatment and from lots of random people.
It was suggested that the poop be freeze dried, which suggests the poop be exposed to the martian atmosphere, which is close to being a vacuum. Also the radiation incident on the martian surface would kill most bugs, given enough time.
@@catandtheostrich most of the bacteria are beneficial to you anyway. People are now having fecal transplants to help stop some diseases.There are a few that can be a problem if they get out of hand and a small number that cause real problems.
They should check astronauts for the really problematic ones. And we really need to reconsider what is bad for you.
Microbes are not a plants enemy, but rather a crucial ally. Becky should have consulted a scientist in this field, however, they are rare. Most botanists are from a previous generation and completely out of touch with current research.
Yes, safety concerns do tend to be less important than a chance of survival. Very important to consider in case I end up being stranded on an world alone.
The Potatoes in the Martin were grown in Soil SImulant created at JPL. I was at special showing of the Movie with Andy Weir and some people from JPL that helped with the Film.
And they all ignored breeding the composting bacteria, they ignored perchlorates and the extra water and power he'd need to deal with it, and they stipulated that a dust storm on Mars would blow a person flying across the landscape.
So overall, it was a little more realistic than Star Wars. Congratulations to them.
@@JFrazer4303 The dust storm is the one thing everyone understands was exaggerated as a plot device. The perchlorates, didn't they explain that way somehow? Either way, it was, in general, a well-made and relatively accurate movie, with just a couple one-off issues (admittedly very big issues for the plot) that were glossed over for story reasons.
@@JFrazer4303 If you want compleatly accurate science go watch a documentry.
@@JFrazer4303 They didn't ignore the perchlorates. They didn't know about them until after the book was written. They ignored the composting in the movie, not in the book. And Andy acknowledged that the sand storm was exaggerated as a plot device. If you don't like fiction why watch it? Why not watch documentaries? Or better yet, pick up an encyclopedia and start reading.
I am so glad you did this. ❤
What a fantastic read on that plant cell damage!!! Loved it!
We have used poop to grow crops for a _long_ time. Sure, there were a few epidemics on the way but it worked. In fact, when farmers visited churches far away and had to spend a night, they had the right to bring their poop back. That's how important fertilizers were.
This is how rice fields in various countries in Asia do it. The rice feels are 'leech pits' that allow the waste to drain into the fields. Yes, they wade through feces; That's how rice is grown and it's a mix of human and animal waste. "You can't use human waste to grow crops" per the video is 100% false, it's done every day.
Great video, very interesting - the Martian is a great movie and one that at least tries to be somewhat accurate, but of course there are some scientific shortcuts in both book and the movie. Even so, it’s a very uplifting movie. On another note - I had Bowie's Life On Mars in my head constantly while watching this so it was funny seeing you sing it in the bloopers… 😊
Always Awesome.
Your explanation of auxins finally made me understand it for my GCSE :)
A long time ago, I lived in Taiwan, and I could always tell when the field next to my house was fertilized with Night Soil. All vegies had to be washed in Potassium Permanganate. So it's being done somewhere in the world. This world, not Mars.
Night Soil. I like that euphemism
the same thing is happening all over austria today (even though it's illegal). in the summer at days before rain you can smell it all around when driving through the countryside. farmers are disgusting.
You probably mistake livestock manure from night soil. Night soil comes from humans, manure from everything else. You smell manure on countrysides, not human feces. @@tru7hhimself
I love this Becky, love the film The Martian too. The whole fear of sending humans to Mars and contaminating existing life I think has to be weighed against the prospect of facing an extinction-level event. I think it's an important step in our evolution to become a multi-planetary species.
I think it's ridiculous to avoid exploring a planet in person because we will contaminate it. Of course we will just like every other place we have ever explored but does that mean we should never explore? I would also argue that we have already contaminated mars with our probes and rovers since it is impossible to 100% sterilize a spacecraft even though we try. This is not a lab experiment for you to fuss over this is the future of our species and I do not care if we track bacteria to mars or not we are going.
There's nothing to be weighed against. Sending a handful of people to Mars to avoid extinction of the human race benefits no-one, neither the 99.99999% of people who stay on earth and die, nor Mars nor anybody/-thing else. Even the 0.000001% who get to go will wish they had stayed and died. Only the richest of the rich and a handful of scientists they think are neccessary for survival could ever think to go there.
Settling on other planets is orders of magnitude more difficult than making life on earth safer, be it avoiding global warming or creating asteroid protection shields. The cost-reward ratio is "astronomical".
If that doesn't convince you, how about that: Elon Musk thinks it's a good idea. I rest my case
our evolution? 😂😂😂😂
@paulsmodels It's okay if you prefer to believe in a magical wish-granting sky wizard.
Loved the video and sent it to my grandsons age 10 and 6. They love your videos. I liked this video.
Thanks for the info. Great shirt BTW.
You remind me of an experiment from school... we put seeds between squares of cotton and sprayed them with water and (planty food I'll not name in case there's a trademark issue). They started to grow, with stems up and roots down. Then we rotated them, and after a while they turned the stems up an the roots down again. Then we rotated them again, and again it happened. I remember feelin sorry for them, wondering if we were making them neurotic.
You're the one thinking Baby Bio are going to sue you from the depths of time.
@ They might have been bought out by disney, so possible.
Dr. Beck, there is (unless you have newer info) a huge problem with martian soil It is loaded (.5-1%) with perchlorates. Which according to the wiki on martian soil says:
" A 2013 terrestrial study found that a similar level of concentration to that found on Mars (0.5 g per liter) caused:
a significant decline in the chlorophyll content in plant leaves,
reduction in the oxidizing power of plant roots
reduction in the size of the plant both above and below ground
an accumulation of concentrated perchlorates in the leaves"
AND since the perchlorates are toxic to us humies, eating taters or other plants grown in martian soil would not be a great idea. on the other hand, there are proposed methods of removing the nasties from the soil.
On the gripping hand there are many other mediums to grow stuff in. Trust me, I just looked in a container I forgot about in my fridge.. lotsa stuff growing there /snarkies.
Perchlorates can be washed off of soil and neutralized relatively easily. By the point we're ready to farm on mars, they'll be a minor issue to deal with.
We are masters of manipulating massive amounts of materials, something you can get rid of by rinsing it in water or maybe a gentle solution is hardly a show stopping concern in my uneducated on the matter opinion lol.
See my pinned comment 👍
Why does everyone think its a huge problem with perchlorates, first if we wanted to there bacteria that eat it we could add to the soil, we can filter it out through reverse osmosis, and its in our soil as well not as much, it can be broken down into oxygen and clorine, you all sound like broken records repeating what the person above said without actually looking into it, Its not a problem. we just need humans there to deal with it. I'd assume if we want a living soil we need to bring some microbes to add and fulgidus eats perchlorates.
@@orionx79 Reverse osmosis is a difficult thing even on earth, but im sure it would be useful. Personally id just dissolve it in the water and evap it out..
Also, there isnt one kind of perchlorate, Mars has mostly magnesium perchlorates.
One thing I think lower gravity would definitely affect would be woody growths. As the cell walls that form harder woody plants toughen under stress to support the plant above them. The plant would still grow but for example any lumber cut from these trees would probably be very soft like balsa wood. The same thing happens with bones. Bone strength relies on the stress of gravity and usage.
We need more of those not just reacting but overthinking from you :D
You can easily simulate 0.3g in a space station with a centrifuge. Much cheaper then actually sending a small greenhouse to Mars, and would give a very reliable data for plant growth once we a tually get there.
I was going to post the same thing
We can also test stuff out on the moon, and if 1/6 is enough gravity, then 1/3 is also enough. Then you can also test it on humans without a huge rotating space station.
@@Br3ttM You can have a very small centrifuge (e.g. 2m) for potatos only :) no need for a huge rotating space station :)
I doubt its that easy..you can't have a constant (tangential) acceleration through the radius. If you have 0.3g on the roots, it won't be 0.3g on the leaves unless its a very very large centrifuge.
@@Shiskabobber1 yeah, acceleration gradient is a problem but there is a very simple solution: a small greenhouse on a long tether (like 10m) swung in circles with a counterweight to prevent inducing oscillations. That would take care of the gradient problem easily, and would be possible to deploy either as an independent spacecraft, or as a part of even a small space station (ISS could very easily suppose such a device).
Fascinating! Many thanks for the video! 👏👏😍
We probably have one or two decades before putting humans on Mars and therefore, we should know by then if there were life at one point in the history of Mars. 🤔
You're fascinating!
Thanks you!
The experiments with auxin showing gravity independence makes sense. You plant a tomato plant in a special hanging planter called a "topsy turvy tomato" and the roots will continue to go in the soil and the leaves will grow inverted - except that they twist around to receive the sunlight. I think seeking water for the roots and sun for the leaves seems to be a priority in plant growth.
The discussion about whether we should spread to other planets and inevitably change them with earth-type life (let alone terraform) or whether we should leave them pristine and only use robots at the cost and risk of confining ourselves to Earth is gone into in some depth in Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy. Well worth a read, if by some chance you haven't.
To me, the primary advantage I see in the short term is the knowledge about closed-cycle systems (like growing potatoes in human waste) it will force us to learn. In the face of climate disaster, this is incredibly important knowledge and though it's totally learnable here on earth, this provides n more emotionally (if not logically) positive target to focus around. I suspect it's far more likely to save us through this knowledge than anything else.
And when we want to get serious about terraformation
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Just a reminder, everything in our solar system has had earth substrate along with microbial life deposited on it. They don't support life otherwise we'd have a fully seeded solar system full of life.
@@WaterspoutsOfTheDeep Indeed, and this is gone into in some depth by Robinson when one of his protagonists tries his hand at growing crops on a partially terraformed Mars.
Life on earth won't be practical past 100 million years from now (well bacteria and extremophiles may have a billion plus, but speaking of complex life) so either we die out or we spread out. And if we never are able to colonize Mars, Mars will eventually be sterilized by the everexpanding sun. Unlike the earth it is unlikely the sun will absorb it, but temperatures in the far future will be intense. So Mars would only be a temporary measure but it could ideally give humanity another couple of billion years. You will need to go past Pluto to get to the point that the expanding sun will essentially have no effect. So I suppose we could worry about polluting the Oort Cloud which would stay in the state it currently is without human interference.
Does anyone else remember growing space seeds in middle school in America?
If I remember right it was the mid 80s we got five tomato seeds and five tomato starts.
We had to keep scientific journal on what happened for 18 weeks.
I remember taking cliping and the first tomatoes and baging them up.
You could buy tomatoes grown locally from some of the seed stock. A NASA-adjacent Fiesta grocery store had, for some reason, a hydroponic bay. The interesting thing about the seeds was that their mission had been seriously expanded in length because the retrieval mission was scheduled after the Challenger disaster. It was already a long-term material evaluation mission (The satellite that held the seeds was full of and covered with materials that NASA wanted to evaluate for long-term space and vacuum exposure), but ended up being extended because the only vehicle that could retrieve it was grounded for a few years.
Great Episode. It sounds like, in Theory, food can be grown. Plus, it can also be used to dispose of human waste. Bonus!!
While in the movie, Mark used everyone's waste (to make the joke possible, I think) in the book, he was careful to use only his own to mitigate the danger of microbes his body wasn't prepared to handle. The theory was that if it came from him, it likely wouldn't hurt him.
Lol nope. Reading the book right now and he uses everyone ELSE’S (freeze dried) waste for organic material to add to the soil/ start his compost pile and his own to start the bacterial culture for it.
Nope. He used everything, the leftover from his colleagues as well as his own. Why? Because the “toilet of doom” sterilized the waste from before his farming
That's a common process in medicine. If someone needs to cath themselves, it's permitted as a clean procedure b because it's their own flora. A professional needs to be sterile because the need to avoid cross contamination.
This is absolutely false. There are bacteria that live in our own lower digestive tract that can easily kill us if they are introduced into our upper GI. This is the reason we wash our hands after using the restroom. We don't give ourselves immunity just because it is already in our body. The location in our body matters. It is the same reason that people die from infections if they are shot through the lower abdomen.
Wouldn't the perchlorates in Martian soil dissolve into chlorite and make growing food impossible? Sorry if the papers mention that, I just thought it was the biggest problem for research
I'd also worry about contaminants in the martian soil that makes ordinary crop toxic.
How many samples were taken? Were these only in old sea beds? Easy to drive on but all of the water soluble minerals were left behind when it evaporated. Think of only sampling the salt flats.
@@ehsnils Perchlorates can be very usefull they contain oxygen clo4 and Nasa even has a bacteria that eats clo4 and excretes oxygen. in a container you can carry around while breathing oxygen from it.
Joe Scott once asked this exact question to the author of "The Martian" on his channel "Answers with Joe" - the author's rebuttal was that, according to the most recent papers, there's indeed perchlorates in Martian soil but the total amount is not *that* big that no plant would ever grow, or that you'd die immediately after eating those potatoe. He described it as "eating those potatoes would be bad the same way smoking cigarrettes is bad for your health - you're getting slowly poisoned over time, but it's not an immediate danger"
One of the simplest ways to remove perchlorates from soil that's been in use here on Earth for over a millennia in regions such as the Chilean highlands is actually just saturating the soil with water then quickly drying it. Not shown in the movie or addressed in the book but certainly something a botanist such as the main character would have known about.
I enjoyed the Martian and I appreciate a bit more now that I have a bit more knowledge about the science. On a side note, for me the most improbable thing about The Martian was that Sean Bean's character survived to the end of the film ;)
there are rice pattys that have people manure also it is possible for sewage treatment plants to process sewage to the point where it can be sold as fertilizer, even now the bio solids are disposed of in wheat fields in central Washington the concern is heavy metals and pharmaceuticals that build up, currant plants are not designed to remove this. so yes human fertilizer is a thing. love the conversation
Shout out to the algorithm for the recommendation, this is my jam! And a Boltoner, nice
Maybe you left it out for simplicity sake, but there is actually the so called PIN transporters, that enable and active cell-to-cell transport of auxin, depending on which side on the membrane they sit (they have a polar distribution and are self reinforcing in a positive feedback loop) :)
I didn't know that (as I said, not a biologist, so I probably oversimplified!) - thanks for explaining :)
I actually watched The Martian for the first time this year, & it's honestly the best film I've watched in 2022!
It's SO good
I learned this year the unofficial record yield for wheat was done in a small plot. Something like 1400 bushel/acre equivalent. They controlled everything down to the air.
Using a blooper as an outro. Perfect :D
Great topic! On the nitrogen problem, human urine contains significant amounts of it. A bigger issue may be lack of soil micro-biome (unless inoculated), since most plants have symbiotic relationships with these organisms for nutrient uptake and other functions.
Mars doesn't lack nitrogen, it just isn't already in the soil. There are lots of deposits of nitrogen-rich minerals readily available just sitting around on the surface. These are also the exact same minerals that are used to make fertilizers on Earth.
The biosphere 2 experiment might be worth a look for one of your videos. The more I learn about a manned mission to Mars the moresceptical I become It seems like it would be tremendously hard to regulate an environment which could sustain crops and humans. thanks for the video!.
The potential for failures, mistakes and accidents for a Mars mission is huge. So many small things can go badly wrong. They need a number of backups and redundancies. This should include backup spacecraft and supplies on Mars and in orbit. The number of failed Mars operations is an example.
The potential for failures, mistakes and accidents for a Mars mission is huge. So many small things can go badly wrong. They need a number of backups and redundancies. This should include backup spacecraft and supplies on Mars and in orbit. The number of failed Mars operations is an example.
All the cool science we can do with rovers is great and all... Sending people there means so much more. Damn the risks.
Fertilizer: El Paso, Texas, in the 70s and 80s, sold treated dried sewage leftovers as yard fertilizer, worked really well, almost no smell!
Why no consideration of pervasive radiation environment, both solar and cosmic?
He would obviously receive a lot of radiation, but if lucky will take many years to develop cancer.
Given your love of "The Martian", I have to ask: Have you read the book? And/or have you read Andy Weir's "Project Hail Mary"? As good as "The Martian" is - and it is really a true masterpiece - I find that "Project Hail Mary" is possibly even better (not that it is possible, but there you go). Astonishing storytelling, and the same attention to detail and science as "The Martian". Not read it? Go get it! Or get the Audiobook version with Ray Porter, which is a thing of beauty in itself, as Mr. Porter is one of the best narrators out there. :-D
As implausible as some of the details of Project Hail Mary are, it is still one of the most entertaining and original novels I've read in decades. I highly recommend it to anyone who's a fan of Sci-Fi.
Stop it guys - my "to read" list is long enough. 😅
@@StockportJambo Not a problem. Shove all Andy Weir's books in on the top of the list, and you can safely do them in any order. I read them chronologically: "The Martian", "Artemis" (excellent, btw!), and "Project Hail Mary".
@@NicolasMedtner Right, well I've read The Martian. Not read Artemis or Project Hail Mary. So... um... cheers for making the problem worse, I guess... 😂
@@StockportJambo It's a nice problem to have, isn't it? :)
You got the auxin backwards auxin represses the development of sideshoots and promotes root growth. Auxin is produced at the tips of shoots and branches and then moves down the stem , that is the reason you get more branching when you cut the tip of a shoot , the main source of auxin is gone so side budds are no longer repressed and grow out. It also promotes the stretching of cells that is how it can cause curvatures because the cells on one side strech more than the other, the effects I described earlier are based on cell division which is an important difference 😅🤓
Awesome Video. Loved your really funny bloopers. I really enjoy watching them. Sorry I was away for awhile. Had to use time for pressuring research I had to complete.
I Hope ESA &/or England won't get up set when I say that you're Awesome & so are your videos. Highly Educational for public schools. Something that you might think of doing one day. Maybe schools are already teaching their students in Jr High & High School as apart of their science classes. It would be smart to do so. Maybe you could also do videos about how someone can become an Astrophysicist & what they do & how they help Space Agencies. Astrophysicist's do a lot as you know because you're probably always busy too.
Thank you for You, just being you, in your Awesome Videos. Take Care.
😎👍👍🔭🌌🎶
As a molecular biology grad student, I saw effects on the cell cycle, ribosome biogenesis, and epigentics, and thought "well, that's a problem" 😂😂😂
Very nice reporting! I subscribed immediately. I think we could grow a lot of stuff on Mars. I love Andy Weir's novel. Love, LOVE! I am a Mars fan, for sure. My only problem with the book was that the windstorm just couldn't push a person over, to say nothing of a rocket or anything else. The atmosphere has one percent the density (1%) of Earth's air. As it happens, the highest wind speed recorded so far was from Viking in 1976, and that was 60mph. A 100mph wind, if it ever happened, would exert the same force as a 1mph wind on Earth. Not exactly a danger requiring an emergency evacuation to the point of abandoning the man before checking on him.
The insane density of dust would bring with it some mass though, the winds on mars can be insanely dense with dust.
Remember- Mark is 40% of his normal Earth weight. He’d have to be a bit on the chunky range even for a tall guy to weigh as much as a skinny petite 5’0 woman here. And as a medium size 5’0 woman, aka heavier than him, trust me when I say I have nearly been blown over by 80 mph wind the couple times I’ve been outdoors in weather like that!
Hm. Hadn’t thought of the air pressure detail though.
Actual gardener/farmer here. There have been studies - some still ongoing - on using properly composted/fermented "humanure" and urine as fertilizer. The fermentation process aids in hygienisation and urine is mostly bacteria free to begin with, aside from some natural skin occuring ones like lactobacillus and some yeasts, which are completely harmless. Look up compost toilets.
It's the same thing we have to do with animal manure in general, as those things harbour harmful bacteria as well.
Parasites from carnivores like dogs and cats are another issue, which fermentation probably can't take care of. So their poop remains a no-go.
The nutrient values of urine (somemwhere around 11-1-2, depending on nutrition) would fix the nitrogen issue in form of a water-soluble, liquid fertilizer. Which takes no additional space and weight on the craft.
An issue *could* be contamination through medication. But if taken from a healthy individual, that shouldn't be an issue.
If we take synthetical fertilizers to Mars, we're going to create more problems: Contamination with heavy metals (huge issue with synthethic fertilizers) and soil degradation as there's no creation of humus and soil life, ruining the inherent water retention capabilites in the process. We should do better if we ever reach another planet.
I love this so much
The fiction author did a shit load of study before writing (because he is also a space geek). He also shown his book to a community of geeky readers (some are experts in the field) and iron out the issues in the process.
The book was quite detailed about why Mark Waltney did what he did.
...and worded it the same way. Science the shit out of it!
Great video :D
What about radiation in the ground and solar wind from space, and different/harsher wavelengths in the light due to lack of atmosphere? Would that be an issue with growing things to eat with martian regolith (in the long term)?
Of cause it would. This video is flawed.
The ultraviolet radiation would largely be beneficial.
I love how the lab in northern Canada is called the Arthur Clarke greenhouse, it shows us that before actually doing something, we have to imagine\dream of it first. (although, for me it would made more sense to be named after Kim Stanley Robinson)
@Dr. Becky, there are some inaccuracies and missed points in your presentation:
1. You should have started with CO2 and atmospheric pressure (or the lack of it). Plants need 400-1000 ppm CO2 to get their carbon and at least 1000 Pascals atmospheric pressure (athervise they dry out).
2. Temperature. Quite obvious - plants need between 20-40 degress Celsius to grow
3. Illumination. Even more obvious
4. Soil salinity/osmolarity: water flows osmotically from low salt concentration to higher salt concentration. Roots uptake water osmotically by having a higher salt concentration than the surrounding soil water pool.
5. Perchlorates - they are toxic to plants and humans and also accumulate
6. Deep freezing human waste does not equal to sterilisation. Lots of pathogens are not killed by freezing, even more so those who produce spores. Spore forming bacteria withstand extreme conditions of starvation, acidity, temperature, and desiccation by producing resistant forms called “spores.”
7. But otherwise, you absolutely can use human waste as fertiliser.
8. You need nitrogen-fixing symbiotic / saprophytic bacteria to fix atmospheric nitrogen - which is needed to make proteins and by the way is lacking on Mars...
Great video Dr Becky… very interesting! Now I’m curious how the movement of Auxin is independent of gravity? Surely there must be something helping to orientate them or have I misunderstood something
I was thinking just cook the poop first. And, as for the regolith, I think you forgot to mention the perchlorate salt in it--and forgot the mention the water ice particles in it. I read 2 liters of water ice in a typical 1 cubic meter of martian regolith. I assume you can heat the regolith to remove the water, then wash the regolith 3 to 5 times to remove the salt (I read 3 to 5, in how farmers clean salt out of Earth soil). I think got the sunlight incorrect--Mars may get about half the sunlight from the sun but the thinner atmosphere allows much more of it to reach the surface. I read, this would be only a little less than on Earth. As for gravity, we could simulate this in space, in a spinning planter. Plants have been grown in weightlessness. They look mostly normal... somewhat rounded.
Re: cooking, that would completely sterilize the poop, killing the organic matter which helps provide nutrients for plants. What you want to do instead is compost it, which sort of "cooks" it, but through the slow decomposition of aerobic bacteria and fungi. But because of the pathogens mentioned, you have to compost humanure for much longer than you'd compost plant matter.
So the movie ignores the perchlorates and time and water and power and handling equipment for it, and they ignore the composting bacteria and time and equipment and power to breed them, and the book and the movie say that a dust storm would blow a person flying across the landscape.
Overall, its a little more realistic than Star Wars or MCU.
She was reviewing the movie. The perchlorates weren't known about until after the book, that the movie was based on had already been written.
8:33 I'm really blown away by the mass and density of Mars. The density is shocking as well as the mass...
I always assumed around 50-70% of Earth's mass!
Wow, very informative. Thanks. I had always thought the higher sulfur content (many times higher?) in the soil might be a spoiler.
Andy Weir is incredible!
Yo ain’t that the dude from event horizon
5:22 One could also compost human waste and if due to the bacterial heat the compost reaches certain temperature, it will kill the pathogens, leaving the rest of bacteria to use to enrich the soil. Also, if one decided to kill all bacteria in the waste or soil, would be enough to expose it to solar radiation wich is harsher in mars in terms of UV.
Something to think about the first domed mars citys parks and green areas literally be walking on your own faeces after processing especially once reach 10000 people
Thank you!
@Dr. Becky do you know of any research done on growing plants in rotating cylinders? Any proof of concepts for making agricultural O'Niel Cylinders?
Tomatoes and potatoes are related species and you can graft TomTO PLANTS ONTO POTATO STALKS AND GET CROPS FROM BOTH HALVES.
Yup. Pomato plants are indeed a thing.
Yes. Both are in the Solanum genus. As are eggplant (aubergine). Similarly, peppers are in the Capsicum genus. Both geni are in the Solanaceae family.
Fantastic video. Thanks for that. :) I wonder however, if the increaded surface radiation on Mars compared to Earth should have been taken into account as well?
Regarding that radiation, it is under 1 mSv/day. That is of course a bit above radiation hygiene norms here, but that doesn't imply it is "insane" (like somebody here wrote) or (too) harmful. In fact, these norms are overshot by several orders. We even have places on Earth with similar background radiation (Guaraparí), even inhabited ones (Ramsar).
I love your content 🥰
Thank you 🥰
Fascinating
However to her second point, in an episode of the great History Channel series "The Universe," many of the Mars experts said that we will not definitively know if there was life on Mars until we send humans. They said no matter how many rovers we send there, they will never definitively answer the question until humans go. A bit of a paradox.
if we wait long enough, we can send smarter, more human-like robots.
@@autohmae well the computers might after disposing of the humans ;)
Sending humans to any uninhabitable planet is a waste of resources ( time and money ).
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt some people want to create a life for themselves and live off the land. You know be a pioneer. There isn't really much land in the world where you can do that anymore. But land on Mars is probably pretty cheap.
@@Imaboss8ball Land on Mars is cheap? Tell me how cheap and where one can purchase this land. You're not thinking this through. Videos like this puts fantasies in weak brains.
I don't get why he didn't use a hydroponic method instead of having to deal with soil.
That really should have been addressed.
I expect he thought it was too obvious to need addressing - where is he going to get all the trays, netting or sponge, tubing, a pump not already doing something life-critical...
My understanding was that they had to abandon the base before they were fully set up, as they were only there for a few days. This is kind of contradicted by him listening to Disco in the rover, that they would have had enough time to download their music playlists to the rovers, I mean priorities, food before tunes I would think.
@@bbirda1287 The music wasn't downloaded, it was stored on portable storage - aka USB keys, but he future proofed it by not specifically naming the media. The only real question/plot hole was that there was so little of it - a modern USB key can easily hold a terabyte or more, which is months worth of music without repeats. TV and movies aren't that much bigger, either
@@bbirda1287 You couldn't be more wrong. He could live for weeks without food. No music? I'd be surprised if he lasted more than a day or two.
Very nice coverage. Excellent that you made quite a bit of time on the problem of contamination of scientific results by human faeces for growing crops. Other than this, human waste can be easily made safe to use, both in permaculture as well as for centuries of crop culture in China and other Asian areas.
That picture of you on the video cover is really beautiful
As an old-time science fiction fan, and someone who has worked as a professional gardener in a zone 3 area...man, I hate to be a naysayer, but I think that when we seriously get around to trying this in reality instead of theoretically, you are going to find it a hell of a job. There’s a horticultural joke that says, there is what the book says are perfect conditions for a plant, and then there’s what the plant decides, and these can be maddeningly different. (Microclimates can be a S.O.B.) Also, all those visions of growing a little greenhouse on your spaceship to supply your needs will run into the problem of greenhouses on earth: galloping fungal and pest infestations, that require serious fumigation, ruthless culling, or putting the infected plants outside where natural ventilation and pest predators can do their thing...and you don’t have that last option. I mean, heck, if you want a more reasonable horticultural challenge, tackle something easier. Start growing stuff in the Atacama desert. Or on Antarctica. The guys with the greenhouse in far northern Canada have the right idea. This requires some serious practical testing and then expect most stuff to fail. I have experimented with wintersowing, and hydroponics myself in addition to regular gardening in Canada. Great, great video, btw! Fascinating topic. First time I’ve seen this treated and it’s one of my obsessions. About time.
Oh, except for kale. Kale might make it. Kale is ridiculously tough. If only the damn stuff was edible...
Good info! Kale is edible? 🐈
@@deozeo4442 It's a delicious if somewhat chewy lettuce substitute.
Bill Farley I’ ve just never seen the need to substitute for lettuce, I guess. Kale...why Kale? (Smacks head) when you could have perfectly good lettuce? Anyway, to each his own...
Don’t use it like lettuce. It’s more like spinach. Or collards/ mustard greens (which are basically just the same green by another name. Look up recipes for THOSE- freaking delicious. Better things to do with it than salad.
What about radiation damaging the seeds/plants either in transit on the way to Mars or once they're trying to grow on a planet with no magnetosphere?
Just as Mars gets at most 44% of the sunlight of Earth it also gets at most 44% of the other kinds of radiation the sun emits and that is the overwhelming majority of the harmful radiation in the solar system. The Martian atmosphere, even as thin as it is, would further scatter that. The amount and types of radiation that could then penetrate a greenhouse would be pretty negligible. You might lose a plant every now and then but that happens for any number of reasons even under ideal conditions.
Protecting the seeds on the journey is more problematic. Foil pouches would stop a lot of radiation but not all. Storing the pouches in some sort of larger thicker walled, denser material container would further protect them but would also make the payload a lot heavier. It would probably just be simpler to send lots of seeds and accept a lot of failed seedlings in that first generation.
Hypothetically speaking we could build radiation resistant bunkers/facilities and the space ships are radiation resistant anyways, and let's say that the radiation shields aren't adequate... you bring at least 10,000 seeds and at least one will grow in the harsher environment of a *mostly* radiation protected area and then we could cultivate... you just need to bring enough so that the statistical odds are in your favor either way.
I think in Guaraparí and Ramsar plants are still growing. Even in Chernobyl's Exclusion zone.
In the high altitude deserts such as in Ladakh India and Tibet. Where they use earth toilets they mix ash from fires and local soil with human excrement in composting toilets to make the desert green. Look it up
Great questions nicely answered. Also legitimately raises the question of the scientific advisability of the hurry to send humans to Mars. Life: so exquisitely complex.
Yeah, I want to see the composition of these "Martian analog soils" before I get too excited. I suspect they are all leaving out the perchlorates that contaminate all the soils we've examined so far on Mars.
I wondered about that as, as far as I know, they're toxic aren't they?
I think most if not all of the analogs leave out the perchlorate because it would make the substance to toxic to work with.
@@hunterG60k Just a little research in about 5 minutes says that yes: Martian soil is contaminated with between .5 and 1% perchlorates, which is enough to make any plants grown in it unsafe to eat.
@@Randi_Beirt Which makes the tests a bit pointless then, doesn't it?
From what I've read, the analogs have varying degrees of perchlorates to simulate everything from original/native Martian soil to soil that's been at least partially treated to remove perchlorates. The higher the perchlorate level, the worse the plants have fared, of course, but there are a number of ways to remove it from the soil to make things easier on the plants. I remember one of the more promising techniques a few years ago involved enzymes with molybdenum, but I haven't kept up with the research (thanks pandemic! >.
I think the best people to ask are probably a botanist and a Geologist If you have friends in those fields that would be will to talk on your channel about it?
Dr Becky they already use human waste here in the US, but once the soil has been treated it has to sit fallow for a year or more. The big catch is there are only certain crops you can grow in it the first year!
Professional hobby gardener here. You can grow anything in all soil type with the right care and draining. The waste would ideally need to be composted first.