'Gladstone' (the Stroudley B1) would be nice to see in model form. What really seems to be lacking though is RTR LBSCR coaching stock, beyond the generic 4-wheelers. Bachmann has produced the E4 and the H1-H2 Atlantics before, but there's precious little pre-grouping stock to go with them. Who knows if the production of the Sonic Models K-class 2-6-0 and the Bluebell's recreation of 'Beachy Head' might influence a change there. Keep up the good work.
Ah it's a B1 - that's been bugging me since I filmed this 😅 I agree its surprising how little LBSCR coach stock is available considering the locos that are already out there. Considering Bachmann also did the H1 and H2 in the LBSCR livery as well it would be good to have some slightly larger coaches. Fingers crossed one of the manufacturers has taken notice. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuyI thought it was a D1. The stroudley D1 was a 0-4-2 tank engine and Gladstone was the tender version. The tank survived to 1954. There is a D1 kit form but I would love to see a R to R version.
TT:120 is now a big consideration for myself as an indoors layout in my home as a 00 layout is going to be massive in the spare room I have, which I am trying to keep as both a spare bedroom and a hobbies room. The 00 might at some point end up in a shed or I might consider doing a garden railway with it.
I do think TT:120 will become a more serious consideration for many people as the range continues to grow. I've certainly found the smaller size has opened up lots of opportunities for a more varied an interesting layout than would be achievable in the same space with 00. Thanks for watching 😃
@@bentullett6068 I agree it needs more variety of rolling stock from other eras and companies. At the moment there is nothing I want in the range to make me even want to try it.
@@Jaherick at the moment the HST's, class 50's, 08's diesels are interesting. Out of the steam locomotives only the A4 interests and the upcoming J50 are technically the only locomotives I would be interesting in buying now, but being more of a GWR fan I am hanging on for the GWR locomotives and possibly buildings to be released.
@@bentullett6068 yep, we all have different interests when it comes to model railways. Be boring otherwise.. none of the existing range fit into what I want to model or would fit that well onto a baseboard that’s just over a metre in length.
18 months in with UK RTR TT:120 range and it’s clear a lot of people have voted with their wallets and ultimately that’s the acid test. While there are no precise industry figures per scale, analysis of various UK manufacturers own accounts etc is suggesting in terms of new product sold, TT:120 is level with N gauge, possibly ahead. Obviously the N gauge market is very mature and that tends to lead to a slow down on annual sales, a lot of people will already have a lot of what they want where as in TT:120 each new release is filling another demand. Having another scale, that is gauge accurate and compatible with international standards and at a ‘nice size’ can only be hood for the hobby. I looked returning to the hobby with OO but discounted it because I couldn’t do what I wanted with the space available and N is just too small to me. All the scales have a place and as you really pointed out, the choice now means anyone can pick what is right for them and get involved in a wonderful hobby. What you have put into an 8x2.5 board is a great demonstration of how TT:120 is being considered the ‘Goldilocks Scale’ I expect within next 12 months 2 major manufacturers will reveal what they have been working on in TT:120. 😁 All scales welcome in my world 😁
I definitely think that's the general consensus. Despite those out there constantly moaning that TT is a waste of time/money/etc it definitely seems to have it's own fanbase that is quite happily getting on and modelling in the new scale. Thanks for watching 😃
TT is absolutely fabulous, everything you could dream of. Obviously there is a shortage of some running gear but Rome wasn't built in a day. The detail in the models is absolutely gorgeous and more companies are coming to the scale. You can build long steam and diesel trains at the moment that look superb when running. If you have 00 I would recommend you sell it as soon as possible while the going is good and buy TT120. 😊 TT will set you free......🙂😎
I wouldn't say everyone should switch from 00 to TT as there's still a lot of advantages to it over. If you want to model a pre-grouping layout for example, you just can't do that in TT:120... yet. However I do agree that the quality and detail of TT is right up there with the established scales and it's a perfectly valid option some people - not everyone but definitely some. Thanks for watching 👍
Some of your reasons are why I like 009. Being essentially narrow gauge pretty much all the rolling stock is small enough to go around tight turns meaning you can keep the overall size of your layout small enough to fit in most spaces. On the other hand the scale is actually 00 which means things are big enough to handle and tolerances are not so vital. There is also that matter of scenics being widely available in 00 so there is plenty to choose from. The draw back of course is that you are limited on the types of layout you can build, no London terminuses or InterCity lines need apply!
I agree and I see Hornby's TT:120 project as an equivalent to Bachamnn's 009 range. The difference being that Bachmann have aimed 009 more at advanced modellers who don't mind spending money on niche locos because they know they can use the existing 4mm scenics that are widely available. Hornby's approach with TT:120 is much more beginner friendly though and is further supported by their system of buildings, track and accessories. If you're just starting out and want more of a train set style layout TT:120 is a great option... meanwhile for those who have an existing layout and fancy modelling something a bit different like Welsh narrow gauge, 009 is the way to go. Thanks for watching 😃
Great Q&A video. I can certainly see the advantages of TT:120, the detail at that scale is very good and the ability to fit a lot into to d as space is a great advantage. If I were not so invested in 00 I would certainly engage with TT:120. Enjoy watching you build the current project.
I think your issue is one that many people share. TT:120 is always going to be an underdog as both 00 and N are so well established. Most people who are already setup in one of those scales aren't likely to make the switch for what would definitely be a downgrade at this point in time. However where TT:120 really shines is it's ability to bring new people into the hobby and that if nothing else is fantastic. Glad you've been enjoying the layout build, it's really starting to ramp up now as the exhibition isn't far away! Thanks for watching 🤩
My counter to your statements are as follows; 1) I’m 66 years old and slightly disabled. 2) My eyes are certainly not as good as they should be. 3) I would only build a layout with my collection of locomotives in mind. And that means 00!!
Which all just suggests that TT:120 isn't for you but that doesn't negate the existence of the scale for everyone else. Like I said in the video, what is important for you won't necessarily line up with what the next person along wants from their model railway but having the option at least is a good thing. Thanks for watching 👍
I like all of the upsides of TT120 that you mention, my issues are things that only time will fix - enough stock variation to fill out a specific location/era and a second hand market so you don't have to buy every single item brand new. Just for those last 2 alone I have to look to OO even though I'm basically starting fresh
That's fair enough although I would say we're starting to get there on both points. A BR Blue era layout is possible in TT now and once the J50 is released a LNER themed layout is more of a possibility. TT locos and rolling stock do pop up secondhand online too - mostly from people who have given it a go and decided it's not for them - so it is out there if you know where to look. That said, having more choice overall is still a perfectly valid reason to go with 00 and there's nothing that requires anyone to give TT consideration. Thanks for watching 😃
Very apropos discussion, That Model Railway Guy. If I were to start a model railway, I'd definitely consider TT, but the manufacturers need to have more steam era stock for my specific interests. I went to Sheffield to look around, and felt that TT was just getting going at this point. One thing we have going today is DCC, which allows the smaller scales to run much better.
I think last year was a bit slow with only the A4, A3 and Class 08 being available. Now though we have the Class 50, HST and Princess Coronations to add to that with the Class 66 and J50 coming later in the year. Naturally they can't produce everything all at once but it definitely seems to be growing very fast. Thanks for watching 😃
Nice, objective article! Do you think that 5½ mm scale , narrow gauge models will take off again,once more proprietary chassis become available in TT gauge?
Possibly but I think that's a long way in the future at the moment. I can't see it having the same popularity as 009 and those who do currently model in 5.5mm I think are content with the fact that it's not as widely supported. Personally I suspect we'd be more likely to see TT being used to allow 3ft narrow gauge railways to be modelled in 4mm scale. Thanks for watching 😃
I've modelled in N scale (both 1:160 and 1:148), TT 1:120, 00, H0 and 1, and each one has its own advantages and disadvantages. Until Hornby TT came out, my friends were looking out for the best scale to gauge compromise they could find when modelling British outline. And yes, that "keep things to scale as a rule" way of modelling is quite common here on the continent, although folks here are insisting on keeping things as close as possible to the scale that matches the gauge. I went back to TT gauge, as things on my H0 1:87 layout are looking squeezed on a 1,20 x 2,40m baseboard, even though there is just a single track line with the usual small country station on it. Modelling in 1:76 would be even looking tighter, I doubt if most OO gauge locos could negotiate the continental radius 2 curves (420mm). In TT, there is enough room for a double track layout on the same space, the station will see a single-track line branching off, and things will still be looking fine. I will be using Tillig TT trackwork together with Hornby TT and Peco TT track, so there will be enough variety for my station poject. By the way, Tillig's double slip and curved points are real space savers!
I definitely agree that each scale has it's own pros and cons and it's up to the individual to decide what's best for them. Regarding 00 locos on curves, most models are rated for Radius 2 which in the UK is 438mm - so not far off the continental curves and honestly I've found the minimum radius for a lot of models to be quite conservative. For example I've had the Hornby W1 and A3 run on Radius 1 curves. Thanks for watching 😃
It's hard to quantify best as, like I said in the video, what matters to you may not be as important for someone else. For anyone wanting to model BR Blue DMUs TT:120 is definitely not the best scale but that doesn't mean that it's not a great option for others like you and me. Thanks for watching 😃
i have some time before i start again in the hobby, and have been watching tt120 closely, and maybe by the time i get to start there will be enough of it out there to start well, but with QC issues I wouldnt go down the path of tt120 yet, and with the variety of what is available in the OO range is more appealing, yet I prefer the true scale of tt120, so im in a bind. Better QC and more products to suit tt120 would push me to go down that path, but some of the models in OO are very appealing, I guess for me I want to see other manufacturers doing tt120 locos, and other products
I can't say I've had any issues with QC myself when it comes to TT:120... personally I think it's more of a vocal minority but I can see why you'd be hesitant to jump into a new scale. But that said, 00 isn't exactly immune to QC either. 00 is certainly more expansive as the manufacturers have moved into producing more niche products... and yet TT is actually growing at quite a rapid rate considering how long it's been around in the UK. In just over 18 months we've already got 6 different locos (with another 2 due soon) and heaps of rollin stock. 009 is a much more popular scale and yet that a much slower release rate so I don't really understand the whole argument about there not being enough models available. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy living in australia, sending models back to be fixed is not much of an option considering you cannot buy from hornby directly here and the importer is slow as hell. for me, why i like tt120 is the true scale side of things, and as im not in a position to actually build anything as of yet, due to moving and not having a space, im keeping an eye on how tt120 goes. I simply would like to see more manufacturers come into play and more point variations from peco, as i understand this will take time, which I have
Hi thanks for another thoughtful vid, & I'm very much enjoying your current TT:120 build - full of great tips for a basically train-set guy like myself! Re the TT topic, I've become fairly deeply involved in N gauge (UK and Euro layouts) over the years, and I've decided for the moment to stay with that. If TT can bring new people into the hobby that's great, but my reservations about it as of now are still the same. It's basically only Hornby - TT needs another significant player to keep them honest. The level of detail is fine AFAICS & I love the HM7000 idea, but the build quality is still too inconsistent and the prices - £25 for a plain van with the body not fitted properly to the chassis - are far too high. (Recent Sam's Trains vids cover this well). Some proper competition will help I feel. Speaking of financials, Hornby's recent £7m loss is scary compared to a total UK model train market of £20-25m. Regarding difficulty of layout-building, I take your point (eg. auto-uncoupling in N will never be that easy!) but to console N gaugers, there's lots of helping hands such as far better trackwork solutions (eg. Kato, or on the more luxury side, the German brands). So for the moment I'm staying put but I'm certainly open to reconsidering TT as things develop. Thanks again - really appreciate your calm and balanced views!
Glad you've been enjoying the TT videos - there's lots of stuff in there that I imagine would translate to N Gauge quite well. Regarding reviews, I would always try to watch/read from multiple sources rather than relying on one single point of view. (For full transparency I haven't done a review on any TT wagons myself so this isn't me vying for views 😅) You'll be able to gain a well informed opinion of your own more easily and be less influenced by any bias, which we all have. If a reviewer has a bad experience with a model it's hard for them to give it a good review - but similarly that could just be 1 faulty model out of 100 or 1000 and it doesn't necessarily represent the full picture. And of course the reverse is also true as well. While I appreciate some do enjoy diving into the finances of model railway companies it does seem like Hornby get a lot of attention in this area particularly. Let's not forget that they've had fairly big shift in management recently and we won't start to see the proper effects of that for another year or so at least. There's been lots of TT releases this year which will help and I expect once they work through the backlog of 00 gauge releases things will become a bit clearer there too. Ultimately, the main point is to continue having fun. If N Gauge works for you and you're invested in it then keep at it. Similarly if in the future something catches your eye in TT or any other scale, maybe give it a look. As long as you're enjoying the hobby that's the main thing. Thanks for watching 🤩
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Yeah totally agree, I wouldn't bother with just one review, only quoted it as evidence LOL. I'm doing something more specific to my M/cr & Northern upbringing with my UK N scale at the mo, so need a variety of ex-LMS, ex-LNE & BR locos from around late 50s on. N has a decent range in these areas right now, so that'x where I am. Really enjoying the channel - some great modelling tips & methods I didn't know which as you say are applicable in N. All best as ever S.
I’ve just got some TT….its big enough for me but small enough to fit some decent length trains into my box room….also they are doing all the GW stuff from my 1980s youth . I’ll keep the OO diesels for later periods and ease of detailing for TMD type stuff .
And now that the scale has been out a while we're starting to see finished layouts appear in shows. That seems to suggest that there is enthusiasm for the scale there, hopefully it will continue to grow as more people see it at shows in the future. Thanks for watching 😃
If I was starting again, I would go for TT120. I am thinking of going for TT120 for my next layout. But I have so much 00 stuff - track, locos, rolling stock, buildings, scenery lying about and ready to use - that it feels almost too late to make the switch. I don't know. I am looking to start a new layout next year, within the confines of a garden shed, and I might just clear out all my OO stuff and take the plunge to TT120.
I think a lot of people are in a similar situation. TT:120 does seem attractive but when you're so heavily invested in 00 I(or any other scale) it's hard to make the switch to something so new, especially if that scale doesn't have quite as expansive range yet. Thanks for watching 😃
As others have said, TT would be my first choice if I were starting from scratch. But I wonder whether it would have had such appeal had Hornby, at some point, adopted the widespread H0 1:87 scale.
At what point would they have made the switch though? 00 has been pretty popular throughout its entire life and for Hornby to have thrown that away I think would have been quite a contentious move at any point in time. Thanks for watching 😃
Have you tried Kato unitrack? I have just moved from Peco Code 80 to unitrack and I agree N gauge using Peco is more fiddly, especially on a modular layout. I have found unitrack to be more forgiving and reliable and with adapter pieces still use flexi track where needed. And using the rerailer track or tool makes mounting trains to the track a breeze.
I haven't but if I were to build another N Gauge layout I suspect that is the route I'd go down. I've always had a bit of a hangup about the moulded ballast base which I'd have to get over though. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Agree with both of you - Kato Unitrack is a great, really comprehensive system and gives you a 'flying start' with its completeness and convenience. You get used to its 'quirks' lol. My newer UK layout is being done with Kato. For the previous one (Euro in the 70s), I was lucky enough to have my old Fleischmann track for re-use. Another great design, been the same for decades, live frog points with switching ready wired etc. Wouldn't want to be paying for it new right now though, with post-`Brexit duty etc
A pre-grouping type of loco I would like to see is one of the NER Shilden electrics. For passenger trains in OO I include the Class 313 PEP train family and regional electrics -Tyneside, Merseyside, LNWR, Midland, Strathclyde etc....
I know Rails Of Sheffield and Heljan did the NER ES1 a while back but seeing as most of those models still seem to be available (goaff.pro/hnnisl) I wonder what demand would be like for them make more. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuyWhen first released ES1 was offered with a wide range of liveries and ownership branding. Also with various detail differences. As far as I can tell some versions have sold out. Thanks for your comment.
I've basically given up on TT now. I love the size and the products all seem good quality, but a) so much rollingstock is sold out or unavailable, and b) the lack of track variety is a real hinderance.
A quick look on Hornby's website shows there is over 90 loco and rolling stock products currently in stock so I'm not sure why you think it's all sold out. With the track, Rome wasn't built in a day. I'm sure Peco will get round to working on different track variations if they aren't already. They've just recently brought out their TT set track range so who knows what's coming from them. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Maybe I've just been unlucky, but class 08 in BR blue, DMU / EMU to match, wagons such as tankers, and flatbeds. It just seems like the availability is a lot of coach repaints and steam trains. I'm not old enough to remember steam trains, I'm looking for the trains from my youth not my dads.
That's not quite what I said though. TT:120 is an option, for some people it will be the best option while for others it won't be. Like I said in the video, it depends on the individual. Thanks for watching 👍
It is a bit "new" despite I have had some models since 1970.s. Size is OK but I think that the larger scales, the trains will be more detailed and run better because the weight they can have. I like the idea of getting closer to the models and see and add more details in to them. I model just about any scale from N to Fn3.
Don't forget that TT:120 is different from the old Triang TT from decades ago. While the track gauge is the same the scale itself is different. Additionally, the new TT:120 locos and rolling stock have some really fantastic detail and the more recent models have quite a bit of weight to them too. The Class 50 is a good example of this and the new Princess Coronations from Hornby have a metal body. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Over the years I am more in to larger scales because it is nice to get a closer look at the models as they are more massive, besides their heftiness makes them move more like their prototypes. TT here in the continent came around 1990 in the second wave with far more detailed and reliable operating models around 1990 as TT was huge among the modellers behinfd the Iron curtain, it had allready a great fan base and still they are produced by different companies especially in Germany. I guess this popularity has caught the attention for the UK companies to launch their lines of products. Interesting nough both UK and the continental has the same scale this time, not 1:160/1:148 scale on N 1:160/ 1:76/1:87 on H0-scale track.
The difference in space really comes from the difference in concept between the two. 009 being based around narrow gauge railways means you can have small 0-4-0s trundling around very tight curves which won't look unrealistic. Meanwhile TT:120 is great for building a mainline style railway while still having a bit more size/presence than N Gauge. Hope that helps and thanks for watching 😃
Some of what you said about scales also goes for OO9 as well. You have the n gauge track size with its space saving the convenience of OO scale rolling stock and accessories for those of us who need the bigger size. It just doesn’t have all the standard gauge British rolling stock. But it looks as if Hornby have targeted train set users more than serious modellers with the types of locos built so far. It needs more variety of small and medium locos of all companies. There’s nothing in the range that I want or need as I’m not interested in LNER LMS or diesel and express locos. Shame as the size would be good to try, just not going to waste my money on a model I don’t want and have no interest in.
I'd definitely agree with that and for me TT:120 feels like Hornby's equivalent of 009 for Bachmann. What's interesting is that the RTR 009 ranges from Heljan, Peco and Bachmann combined had a much slower start than Hornby's efforts with TT - and yet people still bring up the argument that there's not enough available for TT. And while 009 seems to be aimed more at existing/experienced modellers branching out into something different, Hornby's TT:120 does seem to be aimed much more at beginners or those with less experience. I could see a family starting a TT layout as a fun project but I don't really get that same vibe from 009. Thanks for watching 😃
I don't think the majority of people taking up TT:120 are existing 00 gauge modellers or any scale for that matter. If anything it seems that TT is bringing new people into the hobby or those who have not had the opportunity to build a layout for one reason or another and that, I think, is a good thing. Thanks for watching 😃
Yes the tolerances are a lot finer in my experience. Not to say it can't be done but like I said in the video, I think TT:120 is a better scale for beginners while still retaining the smaller size. Thanks for watching 😃
Not really because I don't think thats the case. All model railways are about compromise after all. And while TT does have some advantages, 00 and N do come out better in other regards. Like I said in the video, it comes down to the individual on which scale to go for. Thanks for watching 😃
Noch and Preiser make a lot of TT people, Gaugemaster have added some of the Noch ones to their own TT range. For buildings MS models are good and have a large range. Vehicles are a bit scarcer at the moment, Oxford are bringing out more soon (hopefully) but some of the European ranges fit and there are a good selection of 3d printed ones from Osborn Models and Replitek.
There is a healthy range of TT ‘accessories’ people, vehicles, detailing pieces from small 3D printing companies as well as the established Continental suppliers and UK based bigger model companies, EG West Hill Wagon Works, Oxford Diecast etc.
Please, start looking outside the UK. There are tonnes of manufacturers for accessories. Don't wait for a UK manufacturer to pick up steam. For once thr UK have a scale that is the same as everybody else, so the old limits does not apply to TT.
If you're willing to fund it then sure 😂 O Gauge is definitely great, especially as an exhibition scale where it can really make an impact. For a lot of people though I suspect their ambitions are greater than the space they have available for a large scale like O. Thanks for watching 👍
Nobody needs to change to TT. The ONLY way to 'model trains' is to decide on a diorama, be it a country station, a seaside resort or an industrial landscape & create this as the focal point of your model. What you have to do is - imagine spending a day in one of these locations & observing the rail traffic & locomotive movements associated with your chosen location. That way, the rest of you track layout is simply a means of getting the locos & trains in your sight of vision to enjoy. The old fashioned idea of creating a layout consisting of an oval of track (be it small or large) and fully populating it with scenery is 'for the birds' in a domestic environment. That idea is purely for the exhibition layouts, if indeed it's needed at all. My dad had an large oval of track in a shed. How bloody boring, just watching the trains going continually Round & Round ad infinitum with the occasional stop at the station. It NEVER looks remotely realistic, the curves are always too tight. So, it doesn't matter if yo have OO gauge, TT gauge or N gauge, you can achieve a really interesting layout if you choose a Focal Point. It gives your layout purpose and hours of enjoyment, instead of watching the trains go round & round like a children's fare ride.
I agree that nobody needs to change to TT but there definitely isn't only one way to model a layout or a scene. As I said in the video, different people have different needs and while a fully realistic scene is important for some, for others just having a couple of circuits to run trains round with or without scenery is more than enough. The beauty of this hobby is that everyone is an individual and how we each go about building a layout or participating in a more general sense is up to us. There is no right or wrong way to do anything when it comes to creativity. Thanks for watching 👍
Except if you look at Hornby's recent reports TT:120 is actually doing very well for them. A quick look on their website shows almost 100 models currently in stock for the scale (that's not including track, buildings, scenic items) with more on the way. And that's just Hornby, there are others producing for the scale too. All that considered I'd say TT:120 is doing pretty well considering it's not even 2 years old yet. Thanks for watching 👍
'Gladstone' (the Stroudley B1) would be nice to see in model form. What really seems to be lacking though is RTR LBSCR coaching stock, beyond the generic 4-wheelers. Bachmann has produced the E4 and the H1-H2 Atlantics before, but there's precious little pre-grouping stock to go with them. Who knows if the production of the Sonic Models K-class 2-6-0 and the Bluebell's recreation of 'Beachy Head' might influence a change there.
Keep up the good work.
Ah it's a B1 - that's been bugging me since I filmed this 😅 I agree its surprising how little LBSCR coach stock is available considering the locos that are already out there. Considering Bachmann also did the H1 and H2 in the LBSCR livery as well it would be good to have some slightly larger coaches. Fingers crossed one of the manufacturers has taken notice. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuyI thought it was a D1. The stroudley D1 was a 0-4-2 tank engine and Gladstone was the tender version. The tank survived to 1954. There is a D1 kit form but I would love to see a R to R version.
TT:120 is now a big consideration for myself as an indoors layout in my home as a 00 layout is going to be massive in the spare room I have, which I am trying to keep as both a spare bedroom and a hobbies room. The 00 might at some point end up in a shed or I might consider doing a garden railway with it.
I do think TT:120 will become a more serious consideration for many people as the range continues to grow. I've certainly found the smaller size has opened up lots of opportunities for a more varied an interesting layout than would be achievable in the same space with 00. Thanks for watching 😃
@ThatModelRailwayGuy just need more models from different era's and regions. I am eagerly awaiting GWR and BR Western Region models
@@bentullett6068 I agree it needs more variety of rolling stock from other eras and companies. At the moment there is nothing I want in the range to make me even want to try it.
@@Jaherick at the moment the HST's, class 50's, 08's diesels are interesting. Out of the steam locomotives only the A4 interests and the upcoming J50 are technically the only locomotives I would be interesting in buying now, but being more of a GWR fan I am hanging on for the GWR locomotives and possibly buildings to be released.
@@bentullett6068 yep, we all have different interests when it comes to model railways. Be boring otherwise.. none of the existing range fit into what I want to model or would fit that well onto a baseboard that’s just over a metre in length.
18 months in with UK RTR TT:120 range and it’s clear a lot of people have voted with their wallets and ultimately that’s the acid test. While there are no precise industry figures per scale, analysis of various UK manufacturers own accounts etc is suggesting in terms of new product sold, TT:120 is level with N gauge, possibly ahead. Obviously the N gauge market is very mature and that tends to lead to a slow down on annual sales, a lot of people will already have a lot of what they want where as in TT:120 each new release is filling another demand. Having another scale, that is gauge accurate and compatible with international standards and at a ‘nice size’ can only be hood for the hobby. I looked returning to the hobby with OO but discounted it because I couldn’t do what I wanted with the space available and N is just too small to me. All the scales have a place and as you really pointed out, the choice now means anyone can pick what is right for them and get involved in a wonderful hobby. What you have put into an 8x2.5 board is a great demonstration of how TT:120 is being considered the ‘Goldilocks Scale’ I expect within next 12 months 2 major manufacturers will reveal what they have been working on in TT:120. 😁
All scales welcome in my world 😁
I definitely think that's the general consensus. Despite those out there constantly moaning that TT is a waste of time/money/etc it definitely seems to have it's own fanbase that is quite happily getting on and modelling in the new scale. Thanks for watching 😃
TT is absolutely fabulous, everything you could dream of.
Obviously there is a shortage of some running gear but Rome wasn't built in a day.
The detail in the models is absolutely gorgeous and more companies are coming to the scale.
You can build long steam and diesel trains at the moment that look superb when running.
If you have 00 I would recommend you sell it as soon as possible while the going is good and buy TT120. 😊
TT will set you free......🙂😎
I wouldn't say everyone should switch from 00 to TT as there's still a lot of advantages to it over. If you want to model a pre-grouping layout for example, you just can't do that in TT:120... yet. However I do agree that the quality and detail of TT is right up there with the established scales and it's a perfectly valid option some people - not everyone but definitely some. Thanks for watching 👍
Some of your reasons are why I like 009. Being essentially narrow gauge pretty much all the rolling stock is small enough to go around tight turns meaning you can keep the overall size of your layout small enough to fit in most spaces. On the other hand the scale is actually 00 which means things are big enough to handle and tolerances are not so vital. There is also that matter of scenics being widely available in 00 so there is plenty to choose from. The draw back of course is that you are limited on the types of layout you can build, no London terminuses or InterCity lines need apply!
I agree and I see Hornby's TT:120 project as an equivalent to Bachamnn's 009 range. The difference being that Bachmann have aimed 009 more at advanced modellers who don't mind spending money on niche locos because they know they can use the existing 4mm scenics that are widely available.
Hornby's approach with TT:120 is much more beginner friendly though and is further supported by their system of buildings, track and accessories. If you're just starting out and want more of a train set style layout TT:120 is a great option... meanwhile for those who have an existing layout and fancy modelling something a bit different like Welsh narrow gauge, 009 is the way to go. Thanks for watching 😃
Great Q&A video. I can certainly see the advantages of TT:120, the detail at that scale is very good and the ability to fit a lot into to d as space is a great advantage. If I were not so invested in 00 I would certainly engage with TT:120. Enjoy watching you build the current project.
I think your issue is one that many people share. TT:120 is always going to be an underdog as both 00 and N are so well established. Most people who are already setup in one of those scales aren't likely to make the switch for what would definitely be a downgrade at this point in time. However where TT:120 really shines is it's ability to bring new people into the hobby and that if nothing else is fantastic. Glad you've been enjoying the layout build, it's really starting to ramp up now as the exhibition isn't far away! Thanks for watching 🤩
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Completely agree
My counter to your statements are as follows;
1) I’m 66 years old and slightly disabled.
2) My eyes are certainly not as good as they should be.
3) I would only build a layout with my collection of locomotives in mind. And that means 00!!
Which all just suggests that TT:120 isn't for you but that doesn't negate the existence of the scale for everyone else. Like I said in the video, what is important for you won't necessarily line up with what the next person along wants from their model railway but having the option at least is a good thing. Thanks for watching 👍
I like all of the upsides of TT120 that you mention, my issues are things that only time will fix - enough stock variation to fill out a specific location/era and a second hand market so you don't have to buy every single item brand new. Just for those last 2 alone I have to look to OO even though I'm basically starting fresh
That's fair enough although I would say we're starting to get there on both points. A BR Blue era layout is possible in TT now and once the J50 is released a LNER themed layout is more of a possibility. TT locos and rolling stock do pop up secondhand online too - mostly from people who have given it a go and decided it's not for them - so it is out there if you know where to look.
That said, having more choice overall is still a perfectly valid reason to go with 00 and there's nothing that requires anyone to give TT consideration. Thanks for watching 😃
Great point on the gap differences etc in the smaller gauges, never thought of that
It's definitely something worth considering! Thanks for watching 🤩
Very apropos discussion, That Model Railway Guy. If I were to start a model railway, I'd definitely consider TT, but the manufacturers need to have more steam era stock for my specific interests. I went to Sheffield to look around, and felt that TT was just getting going at this point. One thing we have going today is DCC, which allows the smaller scales to run much better.
I think last year was a bit slow with only the A4, A3 and Class 08 being available. Now though we have the Class 50, HST and Princess Coronations to add to that with the Class 66 and J50 coming later in the year. Naturally they can't produce everything all at once but it definitely seems to be growing very fast. Thanks for watching 😃
Nice, objective article! Do you think that 5½ mm scale , narrow gauge models will take off again,once more proprietary chassis become available in TT gauge?
Possibly but I think that's a long way in the future at the moment. I can't see it having the same popularity as 009 and those who do currently model in 5.5mm I think are content with the fact that it's not as widely supported. Personally I suspect we'd be more likely to see TT being used to allow 3ft narrow gauge railways to be modelled in 4mm scale. Thanks for watching 😃
I've modelled in N scale (both 1:160 and 1:148), TT 1:120, 00, H0 and 1, and each one has its own advantages and disadvantages. Until Hornby TT came out, my friends were looking out for the best scale to gauge compromise they could find when modelling British outline. And yes, that "keep things to scale as a rule" way of modelling is quite common here on the continent, although folks here are insisting on keeping things as close as possible to the scale that matches the gauge. I went back to TT gauge, as things on my H0 1:87 layout are looking squeezed on a 1,20 x 2,40m baseboard, even though there is just a single track line with the usual small country station on it. Modelling in 1:76 would be even looking tighter, I doubt if most OO gauge locos could negotiate the continental radius 2 curves (420mm). In TT, there is enough room for a double track layout on the same space, the station will see a single-track line branching off, and things will still be looking fine. I will be using Tillig TT trackwork together with Hornby TT and Peco TT track, so there will be enough variety for my station poject. By the way, Tillig's double slip and curved points are real space savers!
I definitely agree that each scale has it's own pros and cons and it's up to the individual to decide what's best for them.
Regarding 00 locos on curves, most models are rated for Radius 2 which in the UK is 438mm - so not far off the continental curves and honestly I've found the minimum radius for a lot of models to be quite conservative. For example I've had the Hornby W1 and A3 run on Radius 1 curves. Thanks for watching 😃
What people don't realise is that n gauge isn't actually that small
I suppose but as far as the widely supported scales from RTR manufacturers go it's the smallest of the bunch. Thanks for watching 😃
@@Eli-of5hl my eyes say different 😃
If I was just starting out again TT is what I would be looking at for sure. I think is is the best scale available at the moment.
It's hard to quantify best as, like I said in the video, what matters to you may not be as important for someone else. For anyone wanting to model BR Blue DMUs TT:120 is definitely not the best scale but that doesn't mean that it's not a great option for others like you and me. Thanks for watching 😃
i have some time before i start again in the hobby, and have been watching tt120 closely, and maybe by the time i get to start there will be enough of it out there to start well, but with QC issues I wouldnt go down the path of tt120 yet, and with the variety of what is available in the OO range is more appealing, yet I prefer the true scale of tt120, so im in a bind.
Better QC and more products to suit tt120 would push me to go down that path, but some of the models in OO are very appealing, I guess for me I want to see other manufacturers doing tt120 locos, and other products
I can't say I've had any issues with QC myself when it comes to TT:120... personally I think it's more of a vocal minority but I can see why you'd be hesitant to jump into a new scale. But that said, 00 isn't exactly immune to QC either.
00 is certainly more expansive as the manufacturers have moved into producing more niche products... and yet TT is actually growing at quite a rapid rate considering how long it's been around in the UK. In just over 18 months we've already got 6 different locos (with another 2 due soon) and heaps of rollin stock. 009 is a much more popular scale and yet that a much slower release rate so I don't really understand the whole argument about there not being enough models available. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy living in australia, sending models back to be fixed is not much of an option considering you cannot buy from hornby directly here and the importer is slow as hell. for me, why i like tt120 is the true scale side of things, and as im not in a position to actually build anything as of yet, due to moving and not having a space, im keeping an eye on how tt120 goes.
I simply would like to see more manufacturers come into play and more point variations from peco, as i understand this will take time, which I have
Hi thanks for another thoughtful vid, & I'm very much enjoying your current TT:120 build - full of great tips for a basically train-set guy like myself! Re the TT topic, I've become fairly deeply involved in N gauge (UK and Euro layouts) over the years, and I've decided for the moment to stay with that. If TT can bring new people into the hobby that's great, but my reservations about it as of now are still the same. It's basically only Hornby - TT needs another significant player to keep them honest. The level of detail is fine AFAICS & I love the HM7000 idea, but the build quality is still too inconsistent and the prices - £25 for a plain van with the body not fitted properly to the chassis - are far too high. (Recent Sam's Trains vids cover this well). Some proper competition will help I feel. Speaking of financials, Hornby's recent £7m loss is scary compared to a total UK model train market of £20-25m. Regarding difficulty of layout-building, I take your point (eg. auto-uncoupling in N will never be that easy!) but to console N gaugers, there's lots of helping hands such as far better trackwork solutions (eg. Kato, or on the more luxury side, the German brands). So for the moment I'm staying put but I'm certainly open to reconsidering TT as things develop. Thanks again - really appreciate your calm and balanced views!
Glad you've been enjoying the TT videos - there's lots of stuff in there that I imagine would translate to N Gauge quite well.
Regarding reviews, I would always try to watch/read from multiple sources rather than relying on one single point of view. (For full transparency I haven't done a review on any TT wagons myself so this isn't me vying for views 😅) You'll be able to gain a well informed opinion of your own more easily and be less influenced by any bias, which we all have. If a reviewer has a bad experience with a model it's hard for them to give it a good review - but similarly that could just be 1 faulty model out of 100 or 1000 and it doesn't necessarily represent the full picture. And of course the reverse is also true as well.
While I appreciate some do enjoy diving into the finances of model railway companies it does seem like Hornby get a lot of attention in this area particularly. Let's not forget that they've had fairly big shift in management recently and we won't start to see the proper effects of that for another year or so at least. There's been lots of TT releases this year which will help and I expect once they work through the backlog of 00 gauge releases things will become a bit clearer there too.
Ultimately, the main point is to continue having fun. If N Gauge works for you and you're invested in it then keep at it. Similarly if in the future something catches your eye in TT or any other scale, maybe give it a look. As long as you're enjoying the hobby that's the main thing. Thanks for watching 🤩
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Yeah totally agree, I wouldn't bother with just one review, only quoted it as evidence LOL.
I'm doing something more specific to my M/cr & Northern upbringing with my UK N scale at the mo, so need a variety of ex-LMS, ex-LNE & BR locos from around late 50s on. N has a decent range in these areas right now, so that'x where I am. Really enjoying the channel - some great modelling tips & methods I didn't know which as you say are applicable in N. All best as ever S.
I’ve just got some TT….its big enough for me but small enough to fit some decent length trains into my box room….also they are doing all the GW stuff from my 1980s youth . I’ll keep the OO diesels for later periods and ease of detailing for TMD type stuff .
Awesome, best of luck with your TT:120 layout! Thanks for watching 😃
Before the return of TT, I could've counted on the fingers of one hand how many TT scale layouts I saw at exhibitions.
And now that the scale has been out a while we're starting to see finished layouts appear in shows. That seems to suggest that there is enthusiasm for the scale there, hopefully it will continue to grow as more people see it at shows in the future. Thanks for watching 😃
If I was starting again, I would go for TT120. I am thinking of going for TT120 for my next layout. But I have so much 00 stuff - track, locos, rolling stock, buildings, scenery lying about and ready to use - that it feels almost too late to make the switch. I don't know. I am looking to start a new layout next year, within the confines of a garden shed, and I might just clear out all my OO stuff and take the plunge to TT120.
I think a lot of people are in a similar situation. TT:120 does seem attractive but when you're so heavily invested in 00 I(or any other scale) it's hard to make the switch to something so new, especially if that scale doesn't have quite as expansive range yet. Thanks for watching 😃
As others have said, TT would be my first choice if I were starting from scratch. But I wonder whether it would have had such appeal had Hornby, at some point, adopted the widespread H0 1:87 scale.
At what point would they have made the switch though? 00 has been pretty popular throughout its entire life and for Hornby to have thrown that away I think would have been quite a contentious move at any point in time. Thanks for watching 😃
Have you tried Kato unitrack? I have just moved from Peco Code 80 to unitrack and I agree N gauge using Peco is more fiddly, especially on a modular layout. I have found unitrack to be more forgiving and reliable and with adapter pieces still use flexi track where needed. And using the rerailer track or tool makes mounting trains to the track a breeze.
I haven't but if I were to build another N Gauge layout I suspect that is the route I'd go down. I've always had a bit of a hangup about the moulded ballast base which I'd have to get over though. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Agree with both of you - Kato Unitrack is a great, really comprehensive system and gives you a 'flying start' with its completeness and convenience. You get used to its 'quirks' lol. My newer UK layout is being done with Kato. For the previous one (Euro in the 70s), I was lucky enough to have my old Fleischmann track for re-use. Another great design, been the same for decades, live frog points with switching ready wired etc. Wouldn't want to be paying for it new right now though, with post-`Brexit duty etc
A pre-grouping type of loco I would like to see is one of the NER Shilden electrics. For passenger trains in OO I include the Class 313 PEP train family and regional electrics -Tyneside, Merseyside, LNWR, Midland, Strathclyde etc....
I know Rails Of Sheffield and Heljan did the NER ES1 a while back but seeing as most of those models still seem to be available (goaff.pro/hnnisl) I wonder what demand would be like for them make more. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuyWhen first released ES1 was offered with a wide range of liveries and ownership branding. Also with various detail differences. As far as I can tell some versions have sold out. Thanks for your comment.
For me, the type of locomotives I want varies between large steam locomotives and small to medium diesel locomotives.
Quite a wide range there to choose from 😉 Thanks for watching 👍
I've basically given up on TT now. I love the size and the products all seem good quality, but a) so much rollingstock is sold out or unavailable, and b) the lack of track variety is a real hinderance.
A quick look on Hornby's website shows there is over 90 loco and rolling stock products currently in stock so I'm not sure why you think it's all sold out.
With the track, Rome wasn't built in a day. I'm sure Peco will get round to working on different track variations if they aren't already. They've just recently brought out their TT set track range so who knows what's coming from them. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Maybe I've just been unlucky, but class 08 in BR blue, DMU / EMU to match, wagons such as tankers, and flatbeds. It just seems like the availability is a lot of coach repaints and steam trains. I'm not old enough to remember steam trains, I'm looking for the trains from my youth not my dads.
@@jamesmorgan3623 this, exactly this is the reason.
I can see after your appraisal that TT is the best option......
That's not quite what I said though. TT:120 is an option, for some people it will be the best option while for others it won't be. Like I said in the video, it depends on the individual. Thanks for watching 👍
It is a bit "new" despite I have had some models since 1970.s. Size is OK but I think that the larger scales, the trains will be more detailed and run better because the weight they can have. I like the idea of getting closer to the models and see and add more details in to them. I model just about any scale from N to Fn3.
Don't forget that TT:120 is different from the old Triang TT from decades ago. While the track gauge is the same the scale itself is different.
Additionally, the new TT:120 locos and rolling stock have some really fantastic detail and the more recent models have quite a bit of weight to them too. The Class 50 is a good example of this and the new Princess Coronations from Hornby have a metal body. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Over the years I am more in to larger scales because it is nice to get a closer look at the models as they are more massive, besides their heftiness makes them move more like their prototypes. TT here in the continent came around 1990 in the second wave with far more detailed and reliable operating models around 1990 as TT was huge among the modellers behinfd the Iron curtain, it had allready a great fan base and still they are produced by different companies especially in Germany. I guess this popularity has caught the attention for the UK companies to launch their lines of products. Interesting nough both UK and the continental has the same scale this time, not 1:160/1:148 scale on N 1:160/ 1:76/1:87 on H0-scale track.
I was wondering what the major differences were between tt120 and 009 are space wise
The difference in space really comes from the difference in concept between the two. 009 being based around narrow gauge railways means you can have small 0-4-0s trundling around very tight curves which won't look unrealistic. Meanwhile TT:120 is great for building a mainline style railway while still having a bit more size/presence than N Gauge. Hope that helps and thanks for watching 😃
@ThatModelRailwayGuy oh right, that makes alot more sense, thankyou for clarification
Whats your thoughts on Brooklyn Locomotive Works in America ?
I know literally nothing about them I'm afraid. It's enough of a job keeping up with everything going on in the UK to be honest. Thanks for watching 😃
Some of what you said about scales also goes for OO9 as well. You have the n gauge track size with its space saving the convenience of OO scale rolling stock and accessories for those of us who need the bigger size. It just doesn’t have all the standard gauge British rolling stock. But it looks as if Hornby have targeted train set users more than serious modellers with the types of locos built so far. It needs more variety of small and medium locos of all companies. There’s nothing in the range that I want or need as I’m not interested in LNER LMS or diesel and express locos. Shame as the size would be good to try, just not going to waste my money on a model I don’t want and have no interest in.
I'd definitely agree with that and for me TT:120 feels like Hornby's equivalent of 009 for Bachmann. What's interesting is that the RTR 009 ranges from Heljan, Peco and Bachmann combined had a much slower start than Hornby's efforts with TT - and yet people still bring up the argument that there's not enough available for TT.
And while 009 seems to be aimed more at existing/experienced modellers branching out into something different, Hornby's TT:120 does seem to be aimed much more at beginners or those with less experience. I could see a family starting a TT layout as a fun project but I don't really get that same vibe from 009. Thanks for watching 😃
TT:120may be good but it’s all very well unless you’re modelling OO gauge and it doesn’t match so you have to start all over again
I don't think the majority of people taking up TT:120 are existing 00 gauge modellers or any scale for that matter. If anything it seems that TT is bringing new people into the hobby or those who have not had the opportunity to build a layout for one reason or another and that, I think, is a good thing. Thanks for watching 😃
...................so easy to get N Gauge ...................................with bumps !! You can see it on the nicest layouts .
Yes the tolerances are a lot finer in my experience. Not to say it can't be done but like I said in the video, I think TT:120 is a better scale for beginners while still retaining the smaller size. Thanks for watching 😃
Isn't it easier to say that TT doesn't have any of the disadvantages that N and 00 have?
Not really because I don't think thats the case. All model railways are about compromise after all. And while TT does have some advantages, 00 and N do come out better in other regards. Like I said in the video, it comes down to the individual on which scale to go for. Thanks for watching 😃
Where are people sourcing vehicles, people, and buildings for TT?
Vehicles - Oxford Rail. People - Modelu. Buildings - Hornby/Peco and I have a few kits available/on the way too 😉 Thanks for watching 👍
Noch and Preiser make a lot of TT people, Gaugemaster have added some of the Noch ones to their own TT range. For buildings MS models are good and have a large range. Vehicles are a bit scarcer at the moment, Oxford are bringing out more soon (hopefully) but some of the European ranges fit and there are a good selection of 3d printed ones from Osborn Models and Replitek.
There is a healthy range of TT ‘accessories’ people, vehicles, detailing pieces from small 3D printing companies as well as the established Continental suppliers and UK based bigger model companies, EG West Hill Wagon Works, Oxford Diecast etc.
Please, start looking outside the UK. There are tonnes of manufacturers for accessories. Don't wait for a UK manufacturer to pick up steam. For once thr UK have a scale that is the same as everybody else, so the old limits does not apply to TT.
Why TT:120, when the only gauge that is worth buying is O gauge. You know it is what you really want. You just need to buy a bigger house, no problem.
If you're willing to fund it then sure 😂 O Gauge is definitely great, especially as an exhibition scale where it can really make an impact. For a lot of people though I suspect their ambitions are greater than the space they have available for a large scale like O. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy To fund it just sell the wife and children, but keep the dog.
🤣
TT:120 has killed Hornby.
This is far from true. If we look at the facts TT:120 is actually doing Hornby a lot of good at the moment.
Nobody needs to change to TT.
The ONLY way to 'model trains' is to decide on a diorama, be it a country station, a seaside resort or an industrial landscape & create this as the focal point of your model.
What you have to do is - imagine spending a day in one of these locations & observing the rail traffic & locomotive movements associated with your chosen location.
That way, the rest of you track layout is simply a means of getting the locos & trains in your sight of vision to enjoy.
The old fashioned idea of creating a layout consisting of an oval of track (be it small or large) and fully populating it with scenery is 'for the birds' in a domestic environment.
That idea is purely for the exhibition layouts, if indeed it's needed at all.
My dad had an large oval of track in a shed.
How bloody boring, just watching the trains going continually Round & Round ad infinitum with the occasional stop at the station.
It NEVER looks remotely realistic, the curves are always too tight.
So, it doesn't matter if yo have OO gauge, TT gauge or N gauge, you can achieve a really interesting layout if you choose a Focal Point.
It gives your layout purpose and hours of enjoyment, instead of watching the trains go round & round like a children's fare ride.
I agree that nobody needs to change to TT but there definitely isn't only one way to model a layout or a scene. As I said in the video, different people have different needs and while a fully realistic scene is important for some, for others just having a couple of circuits to run trains round with or without scenery is more than enough.
The beauty of this hobby is that everyone is an individual and how we each go about building a layout or participating in a more general sense is up to us. There is no right or wrong way to do anything when it comes to creativity. Thanks for watching 👍
Sorry, Hornby are skint and if their version of TT is to stand a chance it needs lots of products lots of promotions and lots of luck 😵😵💫🤪
Except if you look at Hornby's recent reports TT:120 is actually doing very well for them. A quick look on their website shows almost 100 models currently in stock for the scale (that's not including track, buildings, scenic items) with more on the way. And that's just Hornby, there are others producing for the scale too. All that considered I'd say TT:120 is doing pretty well considering it's not even 2 years old yet. Thanks for watching 👍