New England's Tallest Tree
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- čas přidán 25. 09. 2017
- Native Tree Society (NTS) co-founder Bob Leverett re-measures New England's single tallest living thing, a Massachusetts white pine tree. NTS member Matt Markworth measures a second tall pine. See story at our New England Forests blog
(newenglandforests.blogspot.co.... - Věda a technologie
As a native Mainer stumbling across your channel, this is great. Very comprehensive on the natural history of New England.
These videos remind me of why I love living in Maine. I left when I was fresh out of school....spent a few years wandering the country....checking out city life....and then promptly came back and haven't left since.
Wow, 175, fantastic!
Thank you for not disclosing the location - no one needs to go here and check it out
you don’t know what your missing 😉
Agree ! What we DON'T NEED are Lookie-Lou's trashing our trees 😡
Should post deep fake coordinates to foster exploration.
Maybe, maybe not.
I plant a lot of white pine here in Ontario. My area has a basic and course soil, and the white pine have done nicely. I have planted many different types of trees, as I plant for wildlife habitat. In my area, we have varied soil moister levels, so white spruce can do well where there is sufficient moisture and red pine seems to do ok where the topsoil is thin. I have had good luck with sugar maple which is no surprise as the early surveys state that this was the dominant tree. I have also had good luck with bur oak, and black walnut. Red oak takes some time to get going in my area, but I do have a few impressive specimens. I have planted many species, too many to list but I have a shag bark hickory coming along nicely, I had nothing but heart ache with american sweet chestnut and bitternut hickory. I don't always win, but my little tree zoo (thousands of trees) keeps me going. Yes I am a tree nut! Thank you for the great video!
your species sounds like me in northern michigan. white pines are the biggest...no red pine, rather hemlocks on slopes and coves and tops. white and black ash and thuja swamps. where did you site your black walnuts? white birch and white poplar do well here
spruce all throughout the low areas but theyve been losing their needles like crazy then windsnapping across the region
That sounds awesome,no birches? Tulip poplar?
Trees in New England are so beautiful. And they don’t burst into flames if they don’t get precipitation for a month unlike those in the west.
I just measured an enormous Eastern White in Swampscott, MA, on conservation ground and it has a chest-height diameter of 11' 5". I thing it might be the tallest. It towers above the canopy.
I’ve been absent but needing the all of the deciduous growth our conifering friends can provide. Thank you for what you do.
I don't understand what you said, but, uhhhh ... you're welcome !
Sorry, I was thanking you in a non humorous way I guess. Thanks for your program
Thank you for sharing this
In New Hampshire, there's a small section of forest that was set aside by a British General and some trees were allowed to grow. Just saplings at the time and I saw them recently..... Wow! Over 150ft
I’d love to see that. Where is it?
I've heard of that spot, there's also a couple areas in the mountains that were too difficult for the logging companies to efficiently and profitably clear out, so they were left behind and have blossomed into some of the only old growth forests that remain in the state
Would you be willing to share where these trees are for an article?
Save these old guardians folks
Oh yeah🙂👍
fantastic video 🙏
That's great very interesting man, met him years ago I think in Lamb Brook Southern Vermont
just love the old trees
Please make more short films! I love your content about new england trees
Hi Alex, thank you, and yes, there will be more. They do take time to make though, so be patient. Your enthusiasm is really appreciated!
-Ray
Im from new york but i gota say there is no other area in the us as beautiful as new england!!! I love being in the northeast!
You ever been to the west coast?
great stuff
Really cool my friend
Good channel guys
Thanks for letting us know why you needed the white marker.
This was an interesting film, I’m just getting started and I’m wondering what you used to edit?
I'm not saying that this is not the tallest tree in New England but , unless every old growth white pine in New England has been identified and measured , it's a pretty bold statement to make . I'm a retired tree climber and I'm certain that there are still many of these old monsters , tucked away in remote areas . Love your videos , by the way .
John,
You are absolutely correct. We cannot know if the Jake Swamp white pine is truly the tallest tree in New England without a heck of a lot more searching, but a lot of that has already been done using LIDAR. A better statement would be the tallest accurately measured tree in New England. Over the years I've gone on a lot of wild goose chases to find that a tree claimed to be 200 feet tall or more hardly broke 120. My experience is that height perception is something that is really hard to for most people to attain. I recall a scout mater tell his scouts that the Calibration Pine in MTSF was 90 feet tall, when in fact it is almost 158. Without scaling objects to use with know distances, and an appreciation of how height appears compressed when too close to the object, i.e. looking up at a steep angle, errors of the magnitude of the scout master regularly occur. It goes both directions. Nonetheless, we will continue the search. Consider Jake a provisional height champ. Glad you loved the videos.
Bob
John, we keep hoping to find a taller pine in New England, but despite a long-time effort on the part of Bob and several others, it hasn’t happened yet. The Jake tree is now at 176 feet (Bob, correct me if I’m wrong). There are a mere handful of others that even come close (in the 160’s or more). Bob and others have documented quite a few in the 150’s. But even at heights above, say, 155’ or so, those are few and exceptional in New England. Bob’s measurements are painstaking and very accurate. In the past, some of these tallest trees were measured by tree climbers dropping a tape measure from aloft (you might be very comfortable doing that, but not me!); thankfully, modern laser devices are quicker, safer, and highly accurate. The measurement methods forestry professionals typically use are aimed at quickly estimating height for commercial purposes, which suit their needs but are not nearly as accurate.
If you know of some lurking giants out there John, we’d be thrilled to learn of them.
Ray, Jake, may be losing a little height as a consequence of recent weather events. Nonetheless, it is at least 174 feet now and the Saheda Pine to the north, also in MTSF, is 172.4 feet. A pine near the Connecticut River growing in Claremont, NH is 170 feet according. to LIDAR. These aren't old growth-aged pines, but pines in the 140 to 180-year age range. They've achieved significant heights since the late 1980s. This is in itself a story. True old-growth stands are exceedingly rare and seldom located on the best growing sites. Site inaccessibility and poor growing conditions are why the pines have survived. There are other reasons too, but site accessibility and growing conditions are the major reasons. This doesn't prevent a few pines in the inaccessible areas making it up into the big numbers, but it seems to be very rare.
BTW, we're locating a surprising number of significant tall pines in the Adirondacks these days. We're up to 164.7 feet on Halfway Brook in the High Peaks Wilderness Area. So far it is the only 50-meter pine we've measured in New York. That will change, but 170 feet is proving to be a very high bar anywhere in the Northeast. As an example, in incomparable Cook Forest State Park, PA, has had at most six 170-footers since we've been measuring. Cook is down to three since a May 4, 2017 storm.
Bob
@@NewEnglandForests Since I've retired I've been wandering aimlessly through the forest . After watching this video , I now have direction . I would be happy to seek out any of these giants that I see , and will report anything of significance that I happen to find . Happy trails !
Gosh, John... I'm glad we saved you from wandering around aimlessly in the forest! 😁
If you do find a behemoth, you can contact us via the New England Forests blog, www.neforests.com
I hope you find some giants.
like the music that bookend the video
👍👍👍
That explains a lot of trees.
Love these big trees we need to save them so we can see what the old forests looked like they recentley clear cut a beautiful forest that I loved here in michigan I was quite upset about it was in a national forest area.I thought those areas were supposed to be for the pepole all for the greed of a quick dollar.
Infound some in the Adirondaks that were massive and old.
In general, how faithfully does the canopy height's contour (as shown by a drone - the local contour, not that viewed from a hill top or ridge line across a very wide extent) follow the ground contour? Can you easily pick out the candidates having stature from which your tallest ones can be measured? You measured that first tree in three parts because of your point of measurement: from there upwards to the leaders tip, from there to near the obscured base, and then from the lowest visible mark to the true ground base - so factoring in the ground contour is an important component to establishing an accurate measurement.
If I understand your question correctly, the answer is that the contour of the canopy only approximately follows that of the overall landscape. If there is a depression in the ground from which a mature canopy tree grows, it must stand that much taller than its neighbors to reach the sunlight. That’s the most illustrative example that comes to mind regarding that point.
As far as the contour of the ground and its effect on our laser-based measurements - there is none. The beauty of the sine-based method of measuring tree height is that it requires no assumptions to be made about the verticality of the tree or the flatness of the terrain. The only reason for measuring in three steps was limited visibility. If obscuring vegetation weren’t an issue, one could measure the tree in the typical two-step way from uphill, downhill, or at the same elevation and arrive at the same total height every time.
Great question. I would think that the canopy would self level, regardless of contour When I fly my drones across Northern Minnesota, there is very little variation in forest canopy height. I've made videos with my racing drones flying less than 2' from the canopy and it is surprisingly flat and even.
Is that Mt. Sugarloaf in the background?
No, it is not Mt Sugarloaf.
Just wondering, have you ever taken a soil sample around that tree? pH? Type of soil ? depth?
Interesting thought, but no, haven’t done that.
I have measured a liriodendron tulipfera at 127 ft ! That is a very tall confer !
tulip poplars can be beasts! would love to see that
They are , Seen some pretty big ones over the years !
I study them to understand native American culture more clearly.
WHOA ! I DO THE SAME ! ✊✊🤚
Is that first tree the Thoreau pine?
No, the Thoreau pine is not seen in this film. The very first pine in the opening scene is the subject tree of the film.
I may have missed it but I’m curious as to what the tree measurements were in 1992.
If I were to look at the likely growth rate of about 6 inches a year, times it by 25 to get how much growth would be between 1992 and 2017, which then leads to about 12.5 feet, maybe less as the growth is said to be less than 6 inches.
Therefore, it likely was about 163 feet and some change
White pine trees can actually have insane rates of growth, some 4 feet PER YEAR,
I decided that's too much, as the growth would imply that it grew more in the last 25 ish years, than from the Civil War, and 1992.
Plus the fact that the growth rate that high would be a free tree in a good growth place, not what you'd get in a forest
53.34 m
I live in Southwest Conn, near NYC, I really don't see many white pines here, I think it may be due to the cultivation of many other types of trees. The white pine has made a comeback, in the last thirty years people have focused more on cultivating "native trees". Where I see these new white pines, they seem to grow very straight - I don't know if that's because they were cultivated and didn't grow in the wild. Do white pines have a reputation for growing straight - is that why they were popular for masts because they were straight? Were they also known to be strong?
White pines are used as hedge but they lose their lower branches as they grow taller, so in the long run they don't make much of a hedge. That's why I am thinking of getting a Canadian hemlock or a Green Thulia Giant. They seem to keep their lower density.
Yes, white pines do grow straight and tall, unless the topmost "leader" twig gets killed by weevils or other causes, in which case the uppermost lateral branches will gradually bend upwards to become new vertical leaders, resulting in a multi-trunked tree (for the full story, see "The White Pine Weevil's Life Cycle", czcams.com/video/XykmZCSfrI4/video.html; and "Eastern White Pine- the Tree Rooted in American History", czcams.com/video/bQs7novlvtA/video.html, both on this channel).
The tallest, straight pines were ideal for shipmasts because of their size, great strength-to-weight ratio, reasonably good rot resistance, and flexibility in the wind. This topic is the basis of the second film mentioned above.
do you guys do videos in Maine
Not so far, maybe at some point.
@@NewEnglandForests I'd be interested as well.
i got 3-5 serious contenders in my back yard in barre ma if you would like to measure im almost positive u might find the 3 tallest trees in massachusetts if not 5
☝😮
Is Bob Leverett still alive
Um, he was when I spoke with him about an hour ago!
How about using drones to measure trees?
Drones might occasionally be ok for rough height measurements in open conditions, but for accuracy, they can't compare with professional quality lasers, or probably even aerial Lidar scans for that matter (unless the drone is equipped to do Lidar). We use drones for photography, and I can tell you.. they're nerve wracking to use in the forest. Accurately measuring trees in a forest is not as simple a task as one might imagine. Bob Leverett has spent decades doing it, and knows all the methods, and all the problems. In fact, he and Don Bertolette have co-written the American Forests rules for measuring national champion trees... over 80 pages worth!
Anyone try using a smaller sized sounding helium balloon on a line with a camera/gps unit or even using that as a platform to launch/retrieve a drone from a more open height in the canopy? After all, the cost of such a system if it was workable, would average out as your measuring project is an ongoing activity and seldom has the simplicity of measuring a solitary tree but also isn't interested (in this tallest trees activity) in the average canopy height which doesn't help specify your upper tier outliers and you are remeasuring a number of your selected trees on a single forest outing.
Hmm, a helium balloon? Doesn’t sound plausible at all. You need to be able to accurately measure vertical height from the ground (essentially at the center of the tree’s base) to the very top of the tree. How would you be able to accomplish that from the air over a forest? Today’s high-tech laser rangefinders are all you need, along with patience and good hiking legs, to very accurately get the job done from the ground. Drones and balloons are not the answer, and would be way more headaches than necessary.
New Engla... ; Why not use a " Drone " , the only problem would be , I would think is you would need to find a very skilled pilot to make it through , the some times very thick canopies . Just a thought . Jack
It was the smallest seed
Omg 😰😰😰😰😰😰
"A forest in Massachusetts " so I guess you are protecting this tree by not giving up its exact location
Yes, that;s right. There are already signs of damage from too much foot traffic. It would be terrific if we had a much greater number of trees such as this so that people could visit and appreciate them. That's our ultimate goal. In the meantime the tree must be protected. But, the truth is, many people pass this tree on a woods road and never have the slightest idea it's as tall as it is. Why? Because it's in a forest among other tall trees and doesn't stand out at all. You don't see one obviously tall tree rising well above all the others.
Even if someone told you what forest it is in, which I found with some research, people online or in person still won't tell you exactly where it is. Frustrating to some degree, even if I understand the reasoning behind it. Only certain people are allowed to know, I guess.
Jake- I understand the frustration, I feel it too in similar situations. It’s not that only “certain” people can know; this tree was regularly the destination for group programs in the past, but it’s suffering from “needle cast” (a fungal condition), and in this weakened condition it’s just not going to be able to withstand a lot of foot traffic compacting its roots, etc. The decision was made to no longer direct visitors to it. It’s feared the tree may succumb to the infection sometime soon.
Given that, would you say it’s not a good idea to at least let people see and celebrate its height achievement thru a film of it? Would it be better to just let it go without documenting it for the public? We thought people should be aware, and rightly proud, that Massachusetts is home to some white pines that are regaining the stature primeval pines once knew. I hope you agree. But, as I said above, those who do see the tree are not even able to realize it’s as tall as it is because the surrounding forest is pretty tall too, so none of the trees appear to be. It’s kind of anti-climactic to experience it. But still, it’s great to know pines can achieve pre-settlement sizes when allowed to.
@@NewEnglandForests "That which is beautiful must not be trafficked with, but must only be revered and adored." - The Wisdom of the Native Americans
Good quote Jake. (I think there's a typo in it though... I believe "adorned" should be "adored".)
And there's.. "We hold nature to be the measure of consummate beauty, and consider its destruction to be a sacrilege."
I always wondered what NYC looked like when it was all forest. I am sure the Indians messed around with planned burning. Before they were there and it was an original forest. I imagine huge trees with boulders all over because Manhattan is all rock. I think that there were bears, wolves and mountain lions living downtown in Soho...LOL!
can you please give the GPS locations of these trees. i have a brand new 24 in Stihl chain saw i was to try out on them....peace out
Yes, start at (42.6662090, -79.6868386) and walk east, you’ll see them.
But- - a 24” saw?? Good luck.
There won’t be many left after the power companies get their way.
I'd guess that is one of the reasons they *do* measure these trees. So that they can have an argument in the power struggle.
I love trees and understand your complaint. On the other hand I love having electrified refrigeration and lights and automatic washers and dryers. Plus if your loved one was a lineman you would understand that side of the story. People got old fast because life was so hard. Electricity is a huge blessing and there are trade offs. Try doing without for a month and you’ll see what I mean. The power companies are not to blame here. It’s indiscriminate logging practices back in the day. I’m just sayin...
Are you talking of using these mast trees for hydro/power/telephone poles most last mile transmission is going to concrete poles or is being buried underground in urban, suburban and rural locations; if clearing transmission right of ways most of those are successively cleared or trimmed back - seldom are they new right of way clearances - most of that damage is property development and clear cut forestry. Siting wind power or solar might be problematic but I don't think forested areas would be economically convenient as the first choice.
I have a concern that individuals clearing power line right of ways target the expensive (old large trees/habitat) as “problematic” and their buddies get the choice timber (with conflicting kickbacks or bartering).
If power companies wanted to look above board they should work with environmental groups looking out for the whole ecology.