The Forgotten Forest Primeval - Rediscovering Mt Sunapee's Old Growth
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- čas přidán 24. 10. 2022
- In the late 1800's, the unchecked clear-cut logging of pristine mountainsides in the White Mountains of northern New Hampshire resulted in public outrage that prompted the creation of the White Mountain National Forest. As the demand for timber brought loggers to Mt Sunapee in the early 1900's, residents feared the loss of primeval forest there and took action to stop it. Then, for a half-century, Sunapee's old-growth forest was virtuallly forgotten, until it was re-discovered in 1997 by ecologist Chris Kane.
This is the story of Mt Sunapee's original, primeval forest, much of which remains intact to this day. The forest is classified as "exemplary" New Hampshire northern hardwood/spruce-fir old growth.
We suggest you first read the story at newenglandforests.blogspot.co...
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I'm long retired now but I once worked in the pemigewasset ranger district for over 16 years working with the forest service, and sadly no matter what bright of a spin you put on the Sunapee region it's still being impacted negatively. I can't tell you the thousands and thousands of hours that I've spent doing forestry Improvement projects and wildlife habitat Improvement projects all over the state, only to sit on a mountain peak now and see all the new summer homes, Condominiums and the negative impact from all the ski areas. it breaks my heart to see that we're now going backwards again! every square inch of available land seems to be bought up by city folks building summer homes and them making unreasonable demands on local towns which only further impacts the beauty of New Hampshire , it's impact on the ecology, the small close-knit communities, and the families that have lived there for hundreds of years. at 72 years old I made one last trip down the Appalachian Trail this summer only to find that many of my wild spots where you could look for miles and not see a structure, is now dotted with new construction no matter where you look. very very disheartening indeed!
Same thing is happening here in Montana. People with no connection to the landscape but all the money in the world come here. They don't appreciate what we have and only seek to exploit the land for profit. They all claim to be lovers of wilderness and outdoorsman too.
Sorry for your loss and respect for your years of service
Omg so true, Campton is the worst right now.
@@lindakautzman7388 no need to be sorry Linda, I now have my own 20 plus acre piece of forest land here in Vermont where I was born that I I manage for myself now . it's nestled between the three highest peaks in the area with a beautiful clear Running Brook right in front of my house and only three people that live on this entire Road until you get to the opposite side of the mountain 6 miles away . That has now been willed to my descendants and with the stipulation to never be sold out of the family. I'm looking at purchasing the piece of land across the road from me that is 81 Acres and I plan to keep that wild as well for all posterity. The present owners and myself are very close to an agreement. We had a severe drought in this area all throughout the summer and I spent half of my time rescuing brook trout and transferring them to the damn area in front of my house and setting up solar powered boat bilge pumps to keep the water from getting stagnant and supplying oxygen to the remaining fish in the area. I went through about $200 worth of freeze dried mealworms to keep them happy and healthy throughout the summer and luckily we had a few good rain storms where they were able to follow their normal hibernation patterns to the lake 6 miles below me. Since I'm at the headwaters of this Fishery I kind of feel a responsibility now to keep this Fishery healthy for generations to come. All the people talking constantly about climate change are just all talk in my honest opinion and never really lift a finger to actually make a difference. I just pray the Next Generation and my family will respect the land and all it contains as much as I do. After all they only make so much land and if it's not managed properly, things will go downhill fast. I have my work cut out for me since this land has not been properly managed for probably 75 years now and at my age I'm doing the best I can to properly maintain my forest and make it productive again. I certainly know the three years that I have been here that the increase in Wildlife due to my efforts has increased at least threefold and my patch of Forest is looking much much healthier now. I'm really psyched about that! Life is good here at the High Mountain Homestead!
@@RedneckSavant please read the reply I left for Linda, this will also help dispel any concerns you may have of new people moving into your area. Some people such as myself are not all talk and actually really do care about the ecology of an area and hopefully those that do will make a difference in your area as well.
Thanks to Ray Asselin for telling the story of the Old Growth forest at Mount Sunapee to a wider audience.
...and thank you to you Dave for your participation in the film!
-Ray
This channel is an undiscovered gem.
very much so! this could be netflix documentations!
Awesome job explaining the complexity of old relatively undisturbed forests in the NE. I've been hiking on Mt Sunapee and wasn't aware of this. I'll be keeping my eyes open for signs next time.
Hey you're back with a new gem!🙏
Thank you for your service! We are hopeful that by educating the public about these rare areas that a deeper understanding by the public will result in a desire to permanently protect them. The forest described in the film lies completely within Mount Sunapee State Park which greatly enhances its chances (with public support) for permanent protection.
I love this channel. It's changed the way I experience nature. I've always been focused on critters and birds, and rarely gave the forest itself a second thought. It's like there's a whole cake to eat, but I only ever paid attention to the icing.
I like that... "there's a whole cake to eat, but I only ever paid attention to the icing". You'll never eat the whole cake, but it'll be a lifetime of enjoyment just trying.
@@NewEnglandForests You can have a lifetime of enjoyment even just licking up the icing. Realizing that there are so many more layers to metaphorically "eat," is dumbfounding. Or at least it was for me. It reminds me of how my obsession for medieval and renaissance warfare progressed from being entirely focused on tactics and strategy to being entirely focused on logistics. The battles are what got me hooked, but now all I care about is the mechanics of how it all happened. How did they feed the horses? What did they do with all the poop/manure? But somehow I never applied that same thought process to nature. I've always kind of taken the plants/foilage for granted, but in reality, they're the coolest part of nature. I had no idea how ignorant I was. This channel has expanded my horizons in a very powerful way. Thank you again for that.
@@cdubsoptional7849 just wait until you start wondering... what is "nature"? and why do I think of it as separate from humans?
Now that, will blow your mind once again.
And if you want those horizons to be expanded even more, read Merlin Sheldrake’s book “Entangled Life”.
@@NewEnglandForests A mushroom walks into a bar. The bartender takes one look at said mushroom, and snarls, "We don't serve your kind here!" To which the mushroom replies, "Why not? I'm a fungi!"
i could listen to you describe the forest and all of its hidden detail all day, love this channel
Some say I’m the best cure for insomnia they’ve found so far.
Looking forward to watching this! As a resident of western Mass, would love to see you one day cover the natural history of Mt. Greylock (including the patches of old-growth on it's western slopes).
Hi Anthony... yes, Mt Greylock is a gem. There are some scenes from the “Hopper” area of the mountain in “The Lost Forests of New England” film on this channel.
Western Mass is so much more beautiful than I expected. I recently did some work over in Williamstown and was blown away. I’m definitely going to spend some time with Mt. Greylock soon. My Pèpére grew up in N. Adams, but I’d never been off the Pike when headed that way.
Welsh and Ayers are so appreciated. the daily hard work of city hall and county meetings trying to get this done is astounding. im sure he had serious threats from logging companies.
Another outstanding tribute to our beloved woodlands! Thank you!
It’s a great, old forest. Thanks for watching, Jonathan.
Thanks for these films. They are excellent. I worked for a conservation core when I was younger and our job was to go from state park to state park in Massachusetts, hike through the forests to a pre-selected area (usually deep in the parks) and measure the health of the forest in a 50 yard radius. The measurements we took were to determine the age of the trees (from bores), the diseases, if any, present, the undergrowth and so on. It was, at times, very cold with long hikes in and out to our van for lunch but it was incredibly fascinating. Our base of operations was located near what, at the time, were some of the largest and oldest trees on the eastern coast (Carlisle). I recall a white pine that stood what must have been close to 180 feet tall. That tree, sadly, struck by lighting, has since fallen but further into the forest there were huge, if I recall, Hemlocks and others.
I enjoy seeing these films and this channel. Keep up the great work!
Ah yes, lightning can do it. And it picks on the biggest and the best.
Thank you for this--especially what defines an old growth forest. Yes, many including myself, have been confused, especially after visiting an old growth forest in the west. Thank you again.
An eastern old growth forest is markedly different than a western one. Eastern forest trees don't attain the spectacular proportions of western conifers like redwoods and sequoias. With so little New England original, uncut forest remaining, and given the difficult terrain it exists on, few people today experience this old growth. We hope to produce a film devoted to describing the characteristics of New England old growth forests.
@@NewEnglandForests I hope to see that someday!
Beautiful video as always. I enjoyed the thoughtfully-described history of the area with period photos as a counterpoint to the beauty of the protected forest today. It was interesting to see the change in bark of the old yellow birches that I wouldn't have identified as such, and the labeled images of different species of plants. Also, the sound of a veery at 18:35 made me smile. We're lucky to have them here on our mountain in Maine and their ethereal song brings even more magic to the forest.
this is my favorite youtube channel every video is so relaxing and informative
Thank you Ray for another fantastic film on New England old growth. It’s always enlightening and hopeful to learn of more old growth here. Those yellow birches are really something! So grateful to you and others for the work you all do educating the public on old growth in an area of the country that many people don’t associate with old forests.
Hi Grace, thanks for the encouraging words. The credit belongs to the good folks in New Hampshire who are wearing out a lot of hiking boots documenting those rare old forests.
I love your channel, and so does my son. Thank you for making these beautiful videos.
Thanks Jonathan, couldn't ask for a nicer comment.
-Ray
The best channel on CZcams!
It's a shame what we did to this country
And let me add. What we continue to do. East Palestine Ohio for example. All due to negligence of the Rail Road.
Here, just south of Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg (brevity👎🏼), I’ll see scattered patches of old growth forest clinging to glacial boulders that pepper the New England landscape. Gnarled and winding yellow Birch and Beech that weave their roots through the fissures of these massive drifters. Or a small stand of middle-aged trees that grow from a ghostly nurse log, long since recognizable as anything but a bump in the forest floor. While hiking off trail, I love to ponder the glacial age that ground up and carved out the New England wilderness. This channel is so important to help inform, or at least corroborate the intuition of any lover of these lands. I particularly enjoyed the Tom Wessels, “Forest Forensics” series, but they’ve all been excellent. Thank you, from Thompson, CT.
I concur, from Bristol CT
Excellent film Ray!!! I loved everything about it. See you up there next year at the conference. We'd love to have this forest in the Old-Growth Forest Network.
Hi Joan, great to hear from you, and thank you!
I’ll gladly pass along the idea of inducting the Sunapee forest into the Old Growth Forest Network to folks in NH. Super idea!
Thank you Joan for all the work you've done with the old growth network . I recently talked to the forest manager of Kenny park in Hartford at this time it does not look like they are going to move forward with joining the network which I think is sad.
I loved this film and am so intrigued by the old growth forest found at Mt. Sunapee! I was thinking that some of those old yellow birches looked older than 350 years old... I wish we could just leave New England's forests completely alone, with next to no cutting, for the next 500-1,000 years!
A significant part of New England's forested land should most definitely be left untouched to return to primitive conditions. There is no better that nature can provide than what the first explorers found. Humanity must gain the wisdom and discipline to rein in its rapacious exploitation of the land that provides us life.
See "The Lost Forests of New England" on this channel at czcams.com/video/Vi12xaJxA5U/video.html .
And the "Wildlands and Woodlands" website, wildlandsandwoodlands.org/
@@NewEnglandForests I agree and it is refreshing to read your reply. I am honestly weary of "sustainable forestry", which is code word for cutting. I would like NO cutting, especially on public land. A great company called Maine Heritage Lumber uses in their products only the lost Old Growth Forest lumber that was abandoned and lost to the bottom of rivers and lakes. Not only does using these old growth logs protect existing forest, but it is a tribute and honor to that precious lost wood just wasted centuries ago. Thanks for the links--I'll check them out.
Laurie, you may also appreciate "Eastern White Pine- the Tree Rooted in American History" on this channel at czcams.com/video/bQs7novlvtA/video.html.
Enjoyed the film and enjoyed talking with you on the phone.
People are still logging whats left of the primeval forests in Canada. These trees are like 1500 years old. I think most people dont know what were losing because they havent seen these trees and forests. You cant replace that ecosystem and the trees by simply logging and replanting. Theres a big difference between a forest that age and something old growth 100/200 years
Amen.
Best channel on CZcams
Jewell... check's in the mail.
I'm speechless to think of what that place was like 200 years ago.... Gnarly trees at the tops from wind. Maybe 5 ft DBH trees down below? Chestnuts littering the forest floor?
Thanks for this video. I always enjoy informative walks in the woods. Haven't seen you in years Dave, Thanks for all the work you have done since the college days when I knew you. Brice
Glad I found this. Thank you! 💙🌸🌙🐌🍁
Been looking forward to a new video for months. This was terrific! Keep up the good work
Steve, your patience is appreciated! There will be something else coming along fairly soon.
-Ray
Its a beautiful hike to the summit pond through that forest, you dont need to see a map to know when you enter the old growth, the air just feels different.
I love these videos so much. Thank you.
Long time watcher, first time commenter. I must say, your videos are absolutely stunning and beautifully pieced together. Can't wait to see future videos -- especially the upcoming oak tree film. Cheers from Connecticut
Thanks Michael. The oak film isn't too far off, it's coming along nicely.
If you can make it to Hartford on December 10, come join us at the Real Art Ways theater to see "Eastern White Pine- the Tree Rooted in American History" on a big screen. Much better than watching it on a computer or tv. That event will be announced on our blog (www.neforests.com), but the info is also available now at www.realartways.org/event/eastern-white-pine-the-tree-rooted-in-american-history/
-Ray
@@NewEnglandForests Sounds like a great event, Ray! Thanks for all that you do.
Beautiful 😍 beautiful
Similar thing happened to Banks Peninsula, New Zealand (where I live). The forest of Totora and Kahikatea trees all felled leaving the steep slopes bare and prone to erosion. Sadly there’s very little forest left to save, only a sliver here and there, such as at Otepatotu, which is high altitude so the trees aren’t huge. All the big trees are gone.
Some areas are being regenerated, Hinewai for example.
Very interesting. Love the drone video. Those things have really changed the view of our world.
Thanks for this great video! I’m always looking forward to new uploads!
Couple more in the works Katie.
Great channel!!! 👍
another fantastic video, thank you!
I'm so happy I saw this upload. I really REALLY enjoy your content.
And I’m so happy you’re so happy 😁!
I’m so thankful for people like them that can see past greed to what’s really important. 100+ years later we’re still trying to teach people that this is the only planet we have. It’s given us everything including our lives, yet we treat it like 💩still.
I really enjoyed this film. I think there are several old growth trees that have survived in my local conservation area here in Central Mass. They are huge hardwoods along an old stone wall which used to be used for grazing sheep and dairy cows. Somehow these old trees are still here. Someone told me the farmers would have left them as shade trees for the livestock. He called them "wolf trees".
Hi Peter. The old trees you're referring to are most likely oaks, probably white oaks. Yes, they're often called wolf trees, because they were "lone wolves" standing in open pastures or along fence rows. They might also be old sugar maples, or other species, but typically are oaks. When farms declined and pastures reverted to forest, these open-grown trees became monarchs surrounded by younger forest. They're now dying off, and we'll likely never see such charismatic old ghosts again. We're currently working on a film about the native oak species of New England, and this topic will be covered in the film.
-Ray
@@NewEnglandForests I'm so excited for the Oak film!
Enjoyed This very much! use to live in Sunapee, & miss it. Retired in Florida!
Hope you are learning about the endangered scrubland ecosystems down there as well, even more at risk than NE forests currently.
Excellent! :)
Great 👍 🎉❤
Looking forward to see, photo and teach! Great stuff. Trees near the poles only reach 4-5+ inches in diameter, even though they’re quite old! Or they lean (drunken trees) due to shallow root growth because of the permafrost!
I recently attended a conference in Connecticut on forest management .It doesn't look like any old forrest will be allowed to be left to their natural state. I felt like nearly all 150 attendees feel that all forests in Connecticut will have to be managed to one Degreeﾟ or another. They believe science is on their side I'm not so convinced.
I’ve heard the same concern about the forestry officials in CT from others. Like you, I’m far from convinced that forests “need” to be managed. If so, I wonder how it is that the early explorers and settlers witnessed magnificent ancient forests when they arrived here. Just luck, I guess.
I don't know what your American forests are like, but in Sweden, we have disturbed the natural ecosystems to a point that us humans will need to manage our lands for the foreseeable future.
We have degraded habitats and extirpated species to the point that we must take over their ecological roles to keep a somewhat functioning ecosystem going. And don't even get me started on all the non-native invasives we've brought in.
The changes we have wrought upon our nature in such a short amount of time is simply staggering, and it's quite difficult to not take it personally.
Though I must add that the mentality has shifted a lot in recent years, I do believe that in many ways, damage has already been done to a unfixable extent
@@NewEnglandForestsnative people have been taking care of the land for centuries before contact, I wouldn’t be surprised if the land that the early settlers saw was ten fold what remains from said early colonization.
Goodbye white Ash & beautiful black Ash - I had 25 acres of mostly Ash now i have 25 acres of dead and falling trees
Enjoy all your videos please continue to keep them coming. I'm in Western NY and have seen my backwoods a bottomland forest which was dominated by all types of Ash get wiped out by EAB. Silver Maple and young Elm represent canopy and silky/gray dogwood and unfortunately European buckthorn remain understory. Too encourage natural reforestation and regeneration would you remove all buckthorn and let Ash fall naturally and become nurse logs? Or remove dead standing Ash and plant natives? Thanks for your input
I’m not an expert on this subject, so I’d suggest seeking professional advice.
But if I was faced with this situation on my own land, I’d be inclined to leave the ash alone; dead trees will provide important habitat, and when they fall, they’ll recycle nutrients and build soil. I’ve heard some encouraging things recently about ash survival; and I definitely would not preemptively take down any live ashes, since some might prove to be resistant.
The buckthorn is another matter. There’s plenty of that in second growth forests here in MA too, and it’s awful. If you can work toward mechanically removing it (as opposed to herbicides), that would be a good thing. There’s probably no need to plant trees, they’ll likely appear quickly on their own, and will have the genetics of your local trees which presumably will be adapted to your site conditions (whereas nursery stock might come from distant sources).
This is another in an unfortunate and frustrating series of ecological disasters. So many of our native tree species are under threat. I wish you the best of luck and success with your forest.
We just came through there last night
Dave Anderson I recognize the voice from nhpr something wild.
That grove of American Beech trees you showed near the summit is absolutely spectacular!! I hiked up there today to try to find it but didn't have any luck. Can you offer me a hint?
If I recall correctly, they’re just off the gravel access road between the summit (where the summit building is) and the end of the Solitude trail.
The beeches are wonderfully stunted; we nicknamed them the “Baobab” beeches.
@@NewEnglandForests Thanks for pointing me in the right direction - I went back and found the "Baobab" beeches! They have such incredible presence and two of them appear to be interlocking branches in an oddly social gesture. So awesome.
I also ventured into the East Bowl and discovered a red blazed trail leading from Jack and June Junction along a creek down the north slope to the Williamson Road. I never even knew that trail existed - it's not listed in any books or maps I've seen, save for the GaiaGPS map which lists it as the "Other Trail". Do you know anything about who created that trail or its general history?
I've been learning so much from your channel along with Tom Wessels' books (which I was introduced to through you). Many many thanks!
Glad you got to see the beeches; I’ve never seen any like those anywhere else.
Sounds like you came down the Williamson Trail (red blazed), and Johnson brook, to the summit access road. I don’t know who created the trail. Some of the scenes in the film were shot up there.
But a state park which is primarily used for ... a ski resort ... ?
A 4 foot diameter birch you don’t see that every day you never see Connecticut thanks for the cool video
Philip W. Ayers!? i was born and raised in NH, i wonder if we are related! haha
❤🎉
Your literally in my back yard!😂
Creepy
It's crazy to me that New England forests are so dynamic that this old growth area looks almost the same as most forests that have been logged once or twice. I wonder if this has a lot to do with the disappearance of capstone species like chestnut. Either way if you delete just a couple of the largest specimens and mix in more hemlocks here and there it looks like millions of other acres I've seen. At least to me. Not saying it isn't special. On the islands on the coast of Maine you can see a cross-section of the life cycle of the forests. The oldest, almost untouched parcels are hardwood like this area. When they get logged off the faster growing spruces take over for a few life cycles. Eventually the spruces get too large or ruin their own party, they start blowing over, and hardwoods start growing again in their wake. Or nothing grows, depending on the location.
Something to keep in mind is that these remnant old growth forests we find on steep New England terrain are subject to less than optimal growing conditions. They are more exposed to wind and storms which cause canopy gaps; those result in regeneration, which gives the forest a highly mixed age structure. Like a human population, there are old, middle-aged, and young individuals. Also, the soils on slopes are thin, and slowly creep downhill. Trees tend to be smaller, and arched over. The highly mixed age structure is probably why these forests look so familiar to you, even though the forests are ancient.
On the other hand, forests growing on the deep, rich soils of bottomlands have deeper roots, and less vulnerability to storms. Those bottomland forests would have grown the most impressive trees, large, straight, strong, and tall. They were therefore the first to be taken down, which is why our remnant old forests are not found in bottomlands, but rather in the least productive terrain. There probably would have been a higher proportion of large and old trees in the primeval bottomland forests.
I believe the American Chestnut was one of if not the biggest tree in the north east before being wiped out by disease or invasive organisms. Were they once native to this area you found? Are there species there missing due to causes other than logging that would be adding to this old growth forest had they not disappeared?
American chestnut occurs in New England, including some parts of New Hampshire. But as far as I know, not on Mt Sunapee; that's a higher elevation forest of northern hardwoods and spruce/balsam fir (the northern hardwoods are chiefly sugar maple, yellow birch, beech, and white ash). American chestnut is "functionally extinct"; old root systems survive and are still plentiful in the chestnut's range, and continue to send up shoots, but the blight fungus kills the shoots before the trees get very old or large.
@@NewEnglandForests Thanks for the info! Your episodes are addicting. Wonderful content!
It looks like they have a new hybrid chestnut they are ready to reintroduce into our forest soon our grandchildren may see the majesty of our forest once again
Better to be forgotten, you might be saved
Ice storms are getting more frequent ?
Has the Ash Borer attacked and killed the Ash trees?
Some of the ash tree crowns are in rough shape, very possibly due to ash borers, but not sure.
The borer is currently in NH and undoubtedly moving north into the lakes region, if not already there.
@@NewEnglandForests If the leaves start looking small and pale, the tree will have about two years before it's caput. We lost a stand of huge 90+ year ash here in S. Ontario about 15 - 20 years ago. A few are still standing upright and dead! Now ash grow to about 4" - 6" in diameter and go belly up.
Proforestation
There is no hurricane more catastrophic than the human race.
and there is no species more life giving and abundant with love, than the human race
simultaneously, there is no species which is more of a reaper of death, and abundant with hatred, than the human race.
Societies should choose carefully which behavioural tendencies they reward and incentivize, since our species has capacity for both extremes.
@@-_8809thanks for your balanced comment. The people in the camp of “humans are a cancer on the planet” miss out on half the story, though they’re not entirely wrong.
@@-_8809 Well, that starts with how parents treat their children. Violent, traumatizing childhoods beget a violent trauma-causing population.
@~30:30 "and to see trees that are alive, that were living, prior to any kind of European colonization" history class much?
I think he was saying how people aren’t able to see trees in that area that are 500-1000years old (which would be prior to European colonization). If they were able to, it would make a difference because of their size, and potentially change someone’s opinion. As they said, it’s hard to notice the older trees to an untrained eye even at 350 years old.
What’s your point lol, he’s just emphasizing how old the trees there are
FYI your video is sponsored by a propaganda commercial for the oil and gas industry
That is beyond my control. This channel is not monetized and I receive no income whatsoever from it. But CZcams reserves the right to show ads whenever and wherever they choose.
@@NewEnglandForests I am sorry that you don't have monetization over the channel. You deserve it!
Veggie- I chose to not monetize the channel. I could monetize it, but ads irritate me when I watch other channels, so I don’t want that to happen to people who watch this channel. But CZcams has the option (and right) to show them whenever they want; we can’t expect them to provide service for free, although that would be wonderful.
@@NewEnglandForestsyou might as well monetize if CZcams is showing the ads anyway!
I love the Winter Wren singing around 14 minutes inn and then the Black Throated Green Warbler and Raven shortly thereafter. All three species like big trees, and mossy understory (Wren). Then Black Throated Blue Warbler and Ovenbird. PS At 17 minutes it looks like you're discussing Red Spruce and picturing a White Pine.
At 17 mins, that is a nice, big red spruce, not a white pine.
Both trees after 17 minutes are Spruce? I'm not sure why it looks so White Pinish to me!
Hi, yes, 16:50 to 17:03 is large red spruce. Notice the small bark scales on the trunk. White pine would look much more coarse at that size tree.
@@NewEnglandForests Thank you!