Comparing 16mm Film 🎥 to Video 📹 | Is the MAGIC of Film Worth It? 🤔
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
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In this video I and my crew are going deep into comparing the workflows for shooting 16mm Kodak 250D Vision3 7207 Film and Digital 16mm on the original Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera. We're shooting, developing, scanning, and grading the film for an opening titles sequence for a fake TV show to see what workflow is most practical. How much does shooting on 16mm cost? Can you replicate the "film look" using a plug-in like FilmConvert Nitrate? We wanted to find out!
LINKS:
Max Karpenko | / k3super16
Midwest Film Co CZcams | / midwestfilmco
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CHAPTERS:
0:00 - Teaser
0:19 - Intro
1:46 - The Crew
2:46 - What Are We Making?
3:58 - The Cameras
6:41 - Shooting 16mm
10:58 - Issues with the K-3
12:22 - We Screwed Up
14:03 - The Re-Shoot
16:00 - Uh oh
17:14 - Another Film Jam
17:58 - Developing & Scanning
18:43 - Midwest Film Company
22:35 - Color With Cody & Alex
25:29 - Opening Titles Sequence
27:16 - FilmConvert NItrate Tutorial
31:04 - Purchase FilmConvert Nitrate
31:32 - Final Costs
32:27 - Outro
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#kodak16mm #filmconvert #blackmagic
Let me know what you think about your own experience with digital vs film workflows - have YOU used FilmConvert Nitrate? If not 👉 geni.us/matthewFilmConvert (save 10% with MIDLAND)
I would love to buy Filmconvert however the minimu Mac Os spec is 10.15. Because my machine has 10.13 dependencies to do with audio I can't use it by the looks. Or can I buy a license and install an older version?
@@pvillez Take a look at their page all about legacy installers. You may be able to buy a license and then use the legacy installer to use it. Let me know if you find out that you can!
www.filmconvert.com/legacy/installers
@@matthewTobrien , thanks for that. I'll be sure to check it out today.
@@matthewTobrien great video by the way!
@@pvillez Thank you!
I think your problem is using the changing bag. Those Kodak 100' rolls come with daylight spools, so you don't need the changing bag and can see what you're doing.
Really you only need a changing bag for 400' cores that aren't protected with metal daylight spools. Hope it helps!
Yeah, this is the common response to this video. I think you may be right. We'll have to try again soon!
You may still get a light leak when loading the camera outside in sunlight. It's recommended to load spools in subdued light.
Was just going to say that. They are daylight spools. Just go in a closet. Or in the car.
We knew we could load in daylight, however, to maximize the useable footage we wanted to load in a bag. Also came in handy while trying to troubleshoot the jams.
I think it ended up biting you in the end since it Jammed, but I think it's great that you had the bag, because you might have lost the film if it had jammed, and you opened it in broad daylight. I'll have to travel with a bag in the future, in case the film camera jams on me. Thank you/.@@codyjones8877
those noises, the black bag, the smell.....wonderful stuff. even with a hard to use film camera the results looked great. nice film Matthew
Thanks, Simon! Pretty nostalgic for sure. Appreciate you watching and commenting!
I was a shoot on film only snob when I started. I only ever shot Super 8 and 16mm in the early days. Never shot 35mm (way too expensive), but I still hold onto that "dream" if I'm ever in a position to do so. In 1996, I bought a 70's Frezzolini LW-16 16mm crystal-controlled news camera with two 400' Mitchell magazines and 12-120 Angenieux zoom lens. I got it for $1200 which was a steal at the time. It's similar to a CP-16 which cost three times as much.
It didn't work properly at first (it was loud and running too fast. Blew 400' of film before I realized it didn't sound right), but Frezzolini still repaired them at the time and fixed it for me (paid for by the used camera store who sold it to me). It had a few issues while shooting with it. Sometimes it would just stop suddenly or the film would chatter if you didn't thread it properly. The magazines were a pain to load. I sat in a dark closet a couple times for a half hour just trying to unscrew the lid to load and unload film. Also, the focus on the lens wasn't the greatest at times and it became very apparent when I scanned some old footage in HD.
Yes, film looked great right out of the camera when shot right. I never "graded" in the film days.
The other worry you have with film is dealing with a lab. I never had a lab screw up any footage I shot, but I've heard stories. I have been screwed by labs going out of business suddenly however. Lost money and the negative to the first film I tried shooting. They were going out of business left and right in those days.
I still have the camera but would never shoot with it ever again. I turned to the "digital darkside" in 2008 when HD started to actually look good and solid state cards replaced tape.
After your ordeals it makes sense why you stuck with digital! I think for us we are just very curious to explore this analog tech and see how we can make some cool images using the K3. We have no ambitions at this time of getting a camera with crystal sync and making an actual short film with it due to the complexity and expense, but it is fun to explore the craft of film filmmaking and inject some excitement into some of our shoots. We still have 3 rolls of 16mm film left over from this shoot, and we need to shoot it fast 'cause one roll is just sitting in the camera!
Stellar work! I can't even begin to imagine the amount of work that went into this video behind the scenes. Amazing stuff Matthew!! Also FilmConvert Nitrate is INSANE! People should definitely pick it up.
Thank you, friend! It was quite a bit of work, and I'm hoping to either livestream or make a video about what all went into the edit - from assistant editing to the creative decisions behind it all. Very, very much appreciate you watching it - especially since it's 33 minutes!
This was awesome Matthew! It looks you guys had a lot of fun even with the setbacks. The footage looked super cool too.
Oh we sure did. It was great to explore shooting on film again, and my favorite part was hanging out at Midwest Film Company to learn how film gets scanned via Resolve. Such a fun workflow. Thanks for watching!
This was awesome, really enjoyed it. Always been a topic I've been interested in.
Thank you, Sky!
Man, we are really lucky that things have become so easy with the prevalence of digital cameras. Especially with FilmConvert....that Blackmagic footage looked pretty damn close to footage shot on film. I'm also really impressed that you can see the grain on CZcams with FilmConvert. Usually YT compression just blurs it and eliminates it. I definitely need to dive into FilmConvert myself. Awesome video, Matthew 🙌🏼
Thanks, dude! If you have noise in darker images, it can get a little artifacty on CZcams. But I noticed too that the noise really holds up on much brighter images.
Cody wanted more time with the footage to get it even closer to film, but he’s on a feature now and we would have had to wait another week to have another session. Just couldn’t manage that unfortunately. But he did be great job!
@@matthewTobrien Ah fair enough. That he did! I was really impressed. It's about time I start using FilmConvert.
Take it for a spin!
Great presentation thank you for doing this. one question, during scanning were you scanning log because the footage their looked like while scanning he was also doing some color grading
Yes! The film was all scanned in with a log profile. We didn't do any grading while or right after scanning. Cody took the raw image scans during our color grading session and did the Rec709 conversion and then the grade in Resolve there. Thanks for watching!
It’s amazing that we were ever able to get film from WWII or Vietnam where 16mm was all they had and in the worst conditions.
I know, right? Can you imagine having to load and unload film in combat conditions? Yow. We learned a lot on this one, that's for sure.
Great informative video! What was the adapter that was used to put the Krasnogorsk-3's lens on the Blackmagic Pocket body? And what is the lens mount of the Krasnogorsk-3 called if I wanted to look this up on eBay?
That...is a great question. I'm not sure since it was Alex's camera, but I'll ask him and let you know!
Lens Mount -M42
Great video, and it's really interesting to see when the process fails and how you guys then deal with it.
Agree that the film just looks amazing straight out, though to me it looks pretty underexposed. My understanding with film is that it's the opposite to digital in that you want to overexpose a little, since it's easy to recover the highlights but if the shadows aren't exposed then you won't be able to recover them. Well, as long as you're not using reversal film stock at least. I'd wonder what that footage would look like 1-2 stops more exposed.
That said, the digital grading did work pretty well. The only issue for me is that the digital 'grain' looks far too chaotic and noisy, whilst the film grain just looks fantastic. But that's entirely subjective taste! Great job guys
Great insight! And a few viewers have pointed out that the film was underexposed. That didn't come up when we were grading, but I'd trust the eye of someone with a lot of experience shooting film over my own. Good point about the grain - I'm always amazed even with my film photography at how amazing the grain looks. Can never quite replicate it with digital.
Nice meeting you guys out there! Great work on this one
Mason! Thanks so much for watching! Nice meeting you as well.
I really enjoyed this video. I absolutely love the look of film. To me the human face looks best shot in 35mm. Digital is too sharp and too revealing. FilmConvert does a good job tho. I shot my first short film on 16mm and made so many mistakes but it still felt so magical. The anxiety of waiting a week till I know what I shot I could do without so I totally understand why people would want to shoot digital. The workflow of film is archaic but when you get it right the result is unmatched.
Thank you for the kind words! And I greatly appreciate you watching this video. There is definitely a magic to film, and I'd love to have more resources to make the workflow easier. I was just on a shoot where the camera team was shooting 35mm on an Arriflex LT. I'd love to get my hands on that camera!
I Really like your color grading on your studio footage. Do u have videos on your work flow for that
I have a video that goes over my color grading workflow, but I've definitely made some changes since then - including adding FilmConvert Nitrate to the mix. Hoping to create more content in partnership with FilmConvert, so that's one I will definitely consider.
Here's a link to that older video: czcams.com/video/zuUQdFERvjc/video.html
bought a K3 last year and love it. with daylight reels I load them in subdued light. my black bag finger feelin days are long gone. might lose 10 seconds but I gotta look. got the ultra 16 conversion and love everything it rolled through. tried some TRI-X last week and looks amazing. so much latitude, so forgiving.
We've got a fresh roll loaded and ready to go - just need to get the boys together to go out and shoot the roll!
You can load the K3 in subdued light. You really do’t need a dark tent.
We're learning this after having made this video. BUT...Cody used the K3 on a shoot before this one and felt like he got too many light leaks on the film with the gate being modified for 16mm Ultra. He was concerned about it and wanted to load/unload in a tent to see if it was better or worse than his previous shoot.
Hard to say with the myriad other issues we encountered...
@@matthewTobrien You were apparently losing the film loop. I shot with a K3 quite a few years back and had the same issue at least one time. Maybe get an old reel of exposed 16mm and practice loading and shooting with that until it loads quickly and runs smoothly every time.
That's what we've come to understand as well, and each experienced film shooter gave the exact same advice. Will definitely do that if/when we decide to shoot with it again.
@@matthewTobrien If you really want to be blown away, shoot some reversal film and project it!
Great comparison, were you able to screw on the K3 lens without any adapters
The BMPCC has an adapter for the lens. Not sure what brand though because all that stuff is Alex's.
The footage that was shut on film looks awesome, but so did the blackmagic.
Haha - appreciate that! I'm always amazed what you can do with footage from a nearly 10 yr old camera when you have a pro colorist involved. Appreciate you watching!
Very interesting comparison, thank you for making it!
Thanks for watching, Gregor!
@@matthewTobrien It was very enjoyable, especially the performance of the film stock surprised me positively in comparison to the BM and the scanning process was very interesting.
If you want, you can subscribe to my channel, I need more subscribers and I have some enjoyable videos, too ;)
I own Krasnogorsk 1, which utilizes magazines and bayonet mount lenses. It has unmodified original gate. Could it be that the film was too loose at widened Ultra/Super 16 gate and thus was bunching up? I'd check the gate for any rough areas. Overall, well done!
It's certainly possible. The DP (Alex) used the camera on another shoot a few months before this one and a few of the rolls went through all 100 ft no problem while a couple got jammed. We've got a fresh roll in the camera right now and we're hoping to shoot something else to continue to test it to see if it's a loading issue or something is funky in the camera itself. Stay tuned!
Could you do a video where you try Dehancer and compare it with FilmConvert?
I’ve got taking a closer look at Dehancer on my to-do list. Haven’t used it yet!
Such a great video. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching, Jared!
Well done, great video! It took me back several years when I studied cinema and started editing short cuts with Super 16 & 35. At this time I used to edit on Steenbeck flatbed editor! And then Avid & Lightworks came, and then Final Cut Pro… the workflow has become smoother and faster but manipulating film had its charm! FilmConvert looks great, I plan to integrate it into my workflow as well as CineMatch! Again good job and great film team! Cheers from Corsica !
Thank you! That's quite the background in analog filmmaking! I'd love to try a flatbed editor or even sit down at one to channel the history of that method of editing. Thanks for watching!
My philosophy is to only use film, the most difficult kind, 3378, with the narrowest latitude, in old cheap cameras, developed myself in Rodinal, the simplest developer, then print it on 3378, too. I am lucky enough to have one of those old printers that hardly ever got used in film schools, Uhler Cine Printer. These restrictions really hone skills. Projection of prints is how film is was used.
The problems I had with FCPX and iMAC mirrored yours with that K3.
For me, one or the other, not both. It takes a long time to grow into film.
Agreed. We're hoping to keep shooting with it when we can to really learn its quirks but it's been difficult getting all of us together to shoot something.
ha, ugh. I've never shot with a K-3, but it has a rep for such. I've had similar problems with a Bealieu and a Kodak K-100. Various Bolexes never gave me that kind of trouble.
I hear Bolex is super reliable. Would love to film with one!
I was wondering why did you insist on loading K-3 in total darkness, when using regular Kodak daylight spools? When you don't see how the film is placed in the chamber while loading, you make jam more probable.
I think the concern was that since the K-3's gate had been modified for Ultra 16mm that loading the film out of the tent would expose some of the edges and risk making less of the frame usable in our final shots. Granted, we ended up using a 4:3 aspect ratio...
What does happen to a roll of 250D when it's exposed to the light when being loaded into the camera?
@@matthewTobrien You'll loose first 2-3 feet obviously, but it's a normal procedure and you'll have better control over the film placing inside the camera. I understand most of Super16/Ultra16 converted K-3s have loop formers removed, so you need to form them manually - if that's the case, it's even better to see what you're doing during loading.
Very good to know! We'll be sure to load it outside of a tent for future shoots. Appreciate everyone being gentle with us as we learn the quirks of this camera and the flexibility of loading this film stock. When I was in film school 16 yrs ago they taught us that you never load film outside of a tent 🤷🏻♂️
@@matthewTobrien Absolutely true for films on cores, but daylight spools took this problem away. Will gladly look for your future shoots!
Good to know! Thanks for helping us out 🤘🏻
Hey dude, You had daylight spools. You don't have to use a changing bag for those. You shouldn't load under hard sunlight but even then it's still usually fine. So you may have waisted some money on the loading tent. could have just loaded those in subdued light in the house.
I would say the loading tent would still be useful, even if it's just for being able to troubleshoot the camera when things go wrong and to then put the exposed film into the can for processing, but you're right that they should've loaded outside of the tent. The only frames which gets exposed is a a few seconds at the start which is a big tradeoff for not wasting a shoot with the camera jamming.
That was also our thinking - if something goes wrong and we need to get access to the film after loading it, we want to make sure it doesn’t get exposed to light.
But yes, using the tent to load the spool could have definitely been what causes the issue 🤷♂️ We’re learning!
Very Nicely done Matthew! I own an original BMPCC. Love the color science and the "look" it renders on screen. Used it on weddings and other client work. I keep promising myself I'll get her down and film with her again... alas my daily workload leaves me strangled for time to immerse myself in the experience again.... But maybe this weekend... Hummmm.... :)
Do it! It was fun to shoot with it, especially with Alex’s rig. He also has a pistol grip for it, and it makes it really fun to shoot with. Thanks for watching!
I think the digital footage goes a bit heavy on the grain noise. Even the film footage itself isn't all that noisy. I would suggest maybe applying it more to shadows and leaving the highlights clean. It feels like its just applying that film grain unilaterally rather than how it actually works, makes it feel a little inauthentic. I haven't shot 16mm in a while but I have a Bolex, Bell&Howell and looking at a K3 and love shooting on film. Kudos to you for doing it.
Greatly appreciate your input on this! I worry that the CZcams compression really makes the noise gnarly vs what we saw in Cody's studio. Sounds like you've got an awesome lineup of 16mm cameras! We still need to shoot our remaining rolls of film on the K3 - I just can't afford the develop + scan costs right now! It ain't cheap!
You're telling me! Basically why I haven't shot on them more. Keep up the great work, love seeing more people shooting film!@@matthewTobrien
Will do and thanks for watching and commenting! 🎥🎞️
Incredible work bro
Thank you, friend. And thanks for being a part of it. 🙌🏻
I think you folks did a great job with this video. I own two K3’s, an Ultra16 and a Super16 and own the same BMPCC you used. People have already commented about the daylight reels. The K3 must have proper loops, the lower loop a bit larger than the upper. Most importantly the pulldown claw must be engaged before you roll. I very much enjoyed the comparison. I love film. 😊
Yeah, we learned a lot from the incredibly kind and helpful comments. I still have a few rolls of film so I definitely want to get the K3 out again and film some more. I was shocked at how easy it was to get it developed and scanned at Midwest Film Company.
@@matthewTobrien I love shooting film whether it be still or motion frame. It's the look, it's worth it to me. What comes out of a film camera is not easy to replicate in digital. The time I have spent trying to almost get the "Film" look can feel wasted when I don't get the look. I have not tried FilmConvert Nitrate but I may give it a shot. Scanning used to be very expensive and they had footage minimums. I've been using Negativeland in NY with good results.
I had a Krasnogorsk 3 and while it is a good camera it isn't easy to load correctly. I also messed up most of a spool at first... Also i noticed that it is better to not wind down the spring completely as this tends to create film transport problems.
This makes me feel so much better!
This is great! A very interesting presentation and some beautiful shots. I just wish FilmConvert would put out something as simple as an official manual/guide and clear documentation when camera packs are updated. I know using the plugin is a straightforward process, but results never seem quite right for me, and I never know what to check or where to go from there.
That's great feedback for FilmConvert, and I'll forward that on to my collaborator there. Appreciate you watching the video and giving a thoughtful comment!
@@matthewTobrien Sure thing. Thanks! You are making awesome stuff!
Thank you!
Gosh I can feel the man hours involved in trawling through the b-roll. Plus the drive down sounds long! I’m glad you had your adventure and that the developed film was ready. In terms of the edit I was worried the edit would maybe drag being so long but it didn’t really - though I’d have moved the reveal of the to show to after the demo as it felt out of order, but interesting to see how relatively easy it is. I remember seeing the film loader on Harry Potter - that was literally her whole job! I’m not sure what else she did the rest of the day 😅
Ohhhhh it took quite a bit to get through all that BTS footage. But well worth it to log it before editing. And yes, on those big films they'll have a crew member dedicated to loading and unloading the mags. It's a HUGE responsibility.
I understand the hard work and time that went into this amazing production!! We really appreciate you bringing this awesome content to us. This is the type of content missing on CZcams!
This is the type of content I'd like to see MORE of on CZcams, that's for sure. We'll see if the views increase over time 🤞
I scanned through this half and hour video, so I don't know whether he mentioned rolling shutter. BMPCC has a CMOS sensor with rolling shutter, so whenever motion comes into play, the difference compared to film is immediately obvious. For this reason alone I consider CCD-based cameras inherently more film-like than CMOS-based cameras, but these cameras are not being made anymroe, the best you can get is HD with a small sensor. Luckily, CMOS-based cameras with global shutter have started to appear, so film could be finally thrown in a dust bin of history.
Justin is great at midwest film co. I got some 3 perf stuff done with them last year. It's dope you shot some film tho! what sounds like was happening in the camera was the film wasn't being lined up with the pull down claw which is a little bump near the gate that the sprocket holes grab on to to be exposed. If that's happening the film won't advance. Second time around sounds like the film wasn't secured into the take up spool causing it to spaghetti and eventually jam the camera. So next time don't use a changing tent for 100' day light spools, you'll have a much easier time.
Great info! We keep meaning to do a short follow up video with a new roll of film but I can’t get everyone’s schedule to work out.
@@matthewTobrien you should try using an SR3 instead of a bolex. Better to just rent and use a camera that was and still is used to shoot movies and commercials with. I love mine. Then get yourself a dummy roll, A dummy roll is a exposed roll of film that you can use for practice when loading. Close your eyes and load the mag. after about 50 times you'll start to get it then do it in the bag then try it with a real factory sealed roll. I don't generally do many youtube videos but there are little tricks to making loading easier. Maybe I'll do one on loading an SR3.
I'm unsure how much of this is the CZcams compression, I would be interested to see some less compressed footage. While the film convert did a pretty good job of matching color and stock, I feel like the softening and especially the noise felt very digital. The actual film's grain structure is of course very organic but something about how the film convert grain was applied, and maybe its an issue of working at 2k and not 4k it just looks weirdly digital and chunky.
As for the camera issues, no I don't think I would ever take a windup K3 onto a professional job, the more professional cameras (Arri / Aaton) are much more reliable and of course have detached mags and better tools for ensuring your film is moving correctly etc, but with those features comes a cost and those cameras have REALLY jumped in price in the last few years due to the resurgence of 16mm filming.
P.S. On a larger project if you go through kodak and are buying a larger amount of film you can really get the price down quiet a bit per ft. Something to consider.
Yes, the grain can really throw off the CZcams compression. So much so that I disable it on all of my videos where I use FilmConvert. I kept it on for the BMPCC shots so we can show what it looks like - and I completely agree that the grain feels more like a digital overlay than something that's embedded in the image. I don't know if there's a grain tool out there that can really replicate what film can do. And the softness is still a bit soft to me as well - if we had more time in the grading suite I would have dialed it back, and I know Cody would have liked a bit more time to dial in the grain and color. He's Digital Loader on a feature right now and only has very small windows of time to work on this with me so we had to send it to get the video posted sooner rather than much later.
And yes, a windup K-3 is a great choice for someone just starting to learn 16mm and doing so inexpensively - we looked at an SR3 and even to rent one it was out of our budget. I'm hoping that as the channel grows and revenue increases we can dedicate more resources to these workflows in order to more accurately represent even a low budget professional 16mm production.
And thanks for the tip with Kodak - I only got the 4 rolls but hope to buy more as we produce more videos like this on the channel and - hopefully - with FilmConvert. Thanks for the feedback and, of course, for watching the video. Greatly, greatly appreciated.
After watching this I’ve stopped romanticizing film. So … thank you 😂. But that was rad man! Loved the video!
Thanks, BT! I really like the idea of incorporating film more into the channel on occasion - or even client work - but we gotta get that camera figured out so we don’t have film jams. The real thrill is when you see your footage for the first time after it’s scanned. Forgot what it felt like to have to wait to have the film developed and digitized. Thanks for watching!
OG is not like a digital camera, but is electronic.. there is a difference in technique
Very true.
K3 is known for these issues, although you probably removed loop formers for the ultra conversion, because that's been the cause of jams and scratches, or maybe when not loaded properly, but even though these issues can happen in any camera, you can try slightly better ones like Canon Scoopic, Bolex h16. Arri 16mm S, that can take the normal rolls in the main compartment, but it can allow a 400 ft roll in the external magazine and it was probably the first professional camera.
Appreciate the info! And thanks so much for watching this video!
@@matthewTobrien no problem i learned a lot about filmmaking from your video. 🙏🏽
problem is bolex are out of control these days on the price. K3s are the only thing available to the average person with an average paycheck.. and even at that the K3's are skyrocketing prices. still easily 1/4 the going price for bolex. I bought mine in 87 for a few hundred dollars and now theyre thousands upon thousands of dollars.
@@flipnap2112 Yeah it's crazy how prices just shoot up as soon as people get back into shooting on film. Good luck, man, if you're doing paying projects, you can earn from them for investment
I love film..but I mainly shot a lot of still film not motion picture which I would love to in future idi t becomes more cheaper ...post 2018.people have hands on more cinematic digital cine camera..so I feel that this generation is very lucky to have digital cameras which are like film or so close...until film developing doesnt become more affordable ..we can use digital
Thanks!
Thanks YOU! Appreciate you watching and dropping a Super Thanks!
@@matthewTobrien this was a huge effort for some YT content. I hope the community and FilmConvert both appreciate what you’ve done for them.
Glad you're able to recognize that. It's easily the biggest undertaking so far on my channel, and I'm confident my collaborator at FilmConvert knows it. They've been phenomenal to work with, and I hope to continue the partnership so I can keep making fun and informative content like this.
@@matthewTobrien maybe the next collab: compare the stock settings (minimal post) of CineMatch between ARRI and the lowest cost cameras. Curious to see the cheapest camera that gets “equivalent” results.
Now that would be fun. We have an Amira and an Alexa Mini here in Omaha, but the rental price is pretty dang steep. Definitely something to consider!
You should have used an Eclair NPRm, which is way better than the K3.
Hey Mr. Matt, did you all ever find out what caused the gate issue? Was it the sprocket not catching or the gate plate?
Cody thinks he knows, but I forgot to get the specifics from him. I’ll ask and get back to you on that!
@@matthewTobrien Alright thank you Mr. Matt😎. This video was very inspiring by the way!
That's the hope!
@@matthewTobrien yessir! ive gathered to the confidence to share this short film i shot on 7293 16mm film🎥. I call it The MirroR: czcams.com/video/9oftFyBgF6s/video.html
Im open to all opinions, critiques, and advice!😎
Dude! That was great! What a fun little short. And let that be a lesson to us all... always snag that random mirror propped up against the side of a building. Haha.
Love the music and the vibe. Nice work on the sound effects. I love that it has almost zero dialogue and you totally get what's going on. Are there things I could get super picky about? Sure. But I don't think it's necessary because the execution of what you do have here is really well done.
Very inspiring, man! Thanks for sharing!
I've always thought film converts grain is very soft, blobby, and not very believable. This video confirms it. The grain looks really fake compared to the actual film. I like using FC for the color but I turn the grain off and use the Davinci grain effect.
using a changing bag for a k3 is super unnecessary and makes loading for this camera more complicated. Fairly easy camera to load in subdued daylight, lose just a few frames doing this way. 400ft film magazines you would have to pull out and use a loading tent.
Hey Matt, I have a pretty good video idea for you, was going to do a video on it myself (it has to do with the speeding up of the FCPX editing workflow by adding a sub $10 device to the computer) but my channel has nothing to do with video editing, so just wanted to see if you'd be interested? Let me know if you are so I can write it out for you...
What's the sub-$10 device?
@@matthewTobrien Sometime ago I was thinking about how to speed up my work flow by using some sort of an external device, I watched one of your videos on Stream Deck/Stream Deck mobile, and thought to myself that it's not a bad idea. I liked the fact that Stream Deck units had physical buttons that I could rest my fingers on, the thing I did not like about them is the price and also how bulky they were, I wanted something somewhat flat with buttons facing upward just like on the keyboard not anything that was set up at an angle that would give me a wrist cramp after a lengthy edit session. The next option was just to put the Mobile app on an iPad, it would be cheaper than buying the actual Stream Deck hardware, but you are still stuck with a $25 per year subscription and the lack of physical buttons on the screen meant that you had to look down at the iPad every time you had to select a command.
I figured there had to be an easier and cheaper way to go about this. And the thing I thought of was a numeric keypad. They normally come in 19, 23 or 35 key configurations. I went with a 19 key pad that I've picked up on Amazon for $7.99. I assigned my most used shortcuts to one button per shortcut on the keypad starting with the "Trim to start", "Blade" and "Trim to end" buttons on the top row and more shortcuts down below, this way my hand is resting on the keypad over all of the buttons. I got the keypad placed to the left of the keyboard and the trackpad to the right of the keyboard. And since the keypad has physical keys I just go by feel, this way I rarely take my eyes away from the monitor which in itself saves me a good amount of time and concentration, also keeps the eye strain down from not having to have my eyes refocus by going from the screen down to the keyboard and so on...
This is not something I saw in another CZcams video, just something I thought of myself couple of weeks back and it helped out tremendously with editing. Figured something like this would make for a good, original content. I hope you like the pitch and possibly use this idea in one of your future videos. Cheers and good luck with the channel growth!!!
Wow! That's great! I love the idea of a video showing how you could use a $8 numeric keypad to program shortcuts. Definitely something to consider for a video. Gonna think on that one!
Am a film guy i still shoot in film.
I want to shoot more! Need more $$$
@@matthewTobrien yup couldn't agree more. When the tech becomes old its value increases
An interesting project, glad you’ve attempted it. I _never_ had trouble with jams when shooting film, but I wasn’t working w/ Russian garbage for a camera. Seems you wasted your film budget on a questionable piece of gear, when it was the most important part of the puzzle. Even a windup Bolex would have been more dependable. Have rentals on Eclairs and Arri SR’s, or Bolex really gotten that expensive? Sorry to sound so critical. I guess you really didn’t know how sketchy the K3 was going to be. Definitely a learning experience all around, so hopefully you got your money’s worth from that alone.
I think the real issue was how the film was loaded. Cody is a wonderful AC and incredibly motivated, and passionate, and he dives right in to new things - he's evaluated his process for loading the film and feels there are a few things he would have done differently. Luckily we have 3 rolls left, so he can continue to improve and get more familiar with the K-3. I think it's more reliable than this video portrays.
Here in Omaha we don't have access to renting an Eclair or Arri SR-series that I'm aware of. The reason the K-3 was so attractive was that we had access to one via Alex, and we figured a young filmmaker who wants to try film could more easily acquire this camera than anything else - it's around $1k restored and converted to Ultra 16mm. Very approachable for filmmakers like Alex - mid-20s, film photographers, passionate about cinema, not a ton of cash. :)
It's a thing to bear in mind; it's all a process which you guys haven't done before and there's plenty of small mistakes which can cause the equipment to fail. The K3s are renown for generally being reliable, if not particularly feature packed, and so they shouldn't jam this often. It kinda sounds like you may not have given the camera enough slack before/after the gate which would do something like this.
That said, it's great to have a video showing some of the issues that can happen when shooting with film. At this stage, most people new to 16mm are going to make similar mistakes and it will affect shoots like this!
This 16mm film shoot was "risky" because a sub-par Russian-made camera was used. This isn’t a fair “digital vs. film” comparison.
What affordable 16mm camera would you recommend to make the comparison fair? For anyone wanting to test the waters with 16mm film the K3 as far as I know is one of the most affordable options (for a reason, of course).
@@matthewTobrien A Bolex H16 is an affordable and far better option. Some pro cameras such as Arri SR2/3 or Aaton XTR are even better and quieter. You have to buy film stocks, but you can just rent a camera.
@@TJ-filmmaker I wonder how easy it is to rent one of those from Omaha… Or how much more expensive it is if they have to ship it vs pick it up in LA.
Woooooo
First!
@@matthewTobrien 😎
Always shoot a few feet as a test when using film. That’s a standard practice that has been part of the process since about 1923 when 16mm was first produced. My K3 cameras, once the plastic loop formers are removed, work wonderfully. Exposure-wise, clip test the film for determining proper development times.. unless you’re sending it to a lab. I’m an old guy in Wichita, KS (63), and I’ll never give up on film. No amount of digital post will ever match the beauty of film. PS, most of your film shots look underexposed a bit. Always over expose negative film.. no real need to do so with reversal stock.
Beware of the confirmatin bias. Inferior 16mm carmera used to show merrits of the format. Even the lowly Keystone 16mm camera is better designed that the K-3. It is well known that the engineering on the loop formers of the K-3 are problematic. Higher speed film stock. Could have used 50D. Two 100 rolls should have only cost a litte over $100. Also, the film footage was underexposed. Negative should be at least a little overexposed. Usually one stop. Film shot of flag shows it with no wind and not waving. Makes you wonder if there are big industries funding these youtubers to push digital.
Thanks for chiming in!
Nothing nefarious here, just doing our best with what we had. We tried to expose 1-2 stops over the meter reading when possible. We also are very aware of the K-3 loop system being subpar, but again, gave it our all with an affordable system.
As for the final graded images and the log footage seen here, to try and claim we didn’t expose correctly based on this upload is biased. I would hope the moral of this video is that film can be approachable. What better way to learn filmmaking than messing up a mag of 50D. #wastemorefilm
@@codyjones8877 "to try and claim we didn’t expose correctly based on this upload is biased" Then you should have uploaded it with the proper exposure!
It was a creative choice to make it darker.
@@matthewTobrien It brings suspicions of "creative advertising" to sell digital!
@@MORCOPOLO0817 Okay.
Interesting but quite unfair comparison! You are using one of the trickiest 16 mm cameras you could find and an operator who has no glue how to handle it and compare it with digital equipment. You should have used a more up-to-date 16 mm camera, e.g. a Beaulieu 2016 in good state. This camera has a trouble-free auto exposure which would have avoided all your under-exposed shots and saved a lot of wasted film material. It allows precise focus setting with its focus assist system and ground glass and you can load Film in bright daylight in less than a minute. 16 mm spools are light protected and supposed to be hsndrled in daylight. I never had film jam with the Beaulieu and if do, I could open it and only mess up a short piece of film . No changing bag, no taping of the lid is required. I point, compose my frame and shoot and 95% of the outcome is perfectly exposed and focused, with all the original magic of film. It could have been so easy guys!!!!
But did you know all that you know now when just starting out with 16mm? We’re trying to show other filmmakers who want to start shooting 16mm film in a camera they can reasonably afford what that process would look like. Including mistakes.
Perhaps the Beaulieu is a better option but the best camera for us was the one that we had - the K3. And Cody loaded film without a tent in a previous shoot and had a lot of light leaks, so he wanted to see what protecting the film from light during loading would do.
Unfortunately it led to jams.
But he had literally loaded that camera maybe a total of a 6 times. So let us and anyone in our audience learn. Fortunately one of the best ways to learn is through failing.
You should definitely make a follow up video, using a current professional digital camera, not a 10 year old obsolete model, and a working film camera, not one which jams film, and manned by someone who knows what he is doing. The idea is brilliant, the execution not so much, although the effort and goodwill are clear and visible. You've barely got one decent shot on film, to compare to the digital version, and even then, you barely got into the detail of what you did in post to grade it. More like 'ahhhh we're shooting film, ahhh we're developing film. ah.. shit nothing came out' but no substance whatsoever, like an old vlog from 10 years ago - same age as the digital camera you were using.
Well the intent of the video is to present a big picture comparison of a film workflow to that of a digital workflow. And the original BMPCC is still used in professional settings today because it's one of the only somewhat inexpensive digital cameras that can get close to matching an ARRI. They're used as crash cams, etc. often because 13 stops of RAW CinemaDNG on an SD card (even if only at 1080p) is pretty dang good. Plus if someone was trying to create a digital super 16mm camera, the original BMPCC is an excellent choice. And very affordable even on the used market.
Same goes for the K-3. With a price tag of under $1k restored by the gentlemen mentioned, it's a great camera for a film photographer or a more experienced digital cinematographer to get their hands on to learn the process and get a better understanding of what all is involved in a 16mm film workflow.
There have been numerous comments about not needing to load the film into the camera in a tent, but Cody felt strongly about it because with the Ultra 16mm gate modification he felt that on previous shoots they were getting too many light leaks on the edge of frame and it was impacting how much of the frame after scanning was usable. And he's said if he did it again - especially if we were going to exhibit the film in Ultra 16mm - he'd load the film in the tent.
I get the desire for a much more detailed breakdown of every step of the process, especially how to expose film using a light meter, etc. and the details of what Cody did in FilmConvert to match the digital image to the film image, but that would have left us with either an hour long video or forced me to break it up into multiple parts.
I opted to go with a big picture look at the whole process.
I appreciate the input - I'd recommend in the future to be a bit more constructive with your criticism and not so *_destructive_*.
The Blackmagic Design Pocket Cinema Camera was a design classic | www.redsharknews.com/production/item/5402-the-blackmagic-design-pocket-cinema-camera-was-a-design-classic
Why I'm Revisiting Blackmagic's Original Pocket Cinema Camera | noamkroll.com/why-i-am-revisiting-blackmagics-original-1080p-pocket-cinema-camera/
@@matthewTobrien It was, I've got one! But 10 years on there are far better cameras in all respects. It was, and still is, BlackMagic's cheapest camera. It's unfair to your viewers to compare film to such a low end model. A RED Komodo or a BlackMagic Ursa 4.6k or 12k would be a fairer comparison. Anyone with the budget to shoot even a short on 16mm film would consider the cost of these two cameras peanuts. The dynamic range and resolution should be actually superior to film, at least on paper - that is why a video comparing them would be an eye opener for indie directors / producers. You'd raise the funds to cover costs in no time I'm sure, but respectfully, get a competent crew!
They're plenty competent - we've shot on 16mm film all of one time before we made this video, so it's a learning curve. And there's nobody I'd rather have on set in a digital workflow for everything DIT, digital loader, or 1st AC than Cody Jones. He knows his stuff, and is a true professional.
And we're also appealing to filmmakers who don't have the budget for the cameras you mentioned - a RED Komodo (just the body) is $6,000. Plus it's a Super35mm sensor. This was made with a filmmaker in mind who wants to shoot a short film, a music video, experimental films, etc. on a shoestring budget - because it's a passion project and not a paid client gig - for gear but still have a high quality image (albeit 1080p) that can easily be adapted to a 16mm film look. Especially when coupled with FilmConvert Nitrate.
In hindsight, I might have explained that more thoroughly in the video but, again, like the article above that I linked - we were inspired to use that camera not only because we had one, but because it's still being snapped up by filmmakers because it's one of only two cameras that can simulate a 16mm film camera *_and_* have a high dynamic range CinemaDNG output (the only other camera that can do that is the incredibly difficult to find Bolex D16).
Well, it’s a film convert sponsored video. The goal is to make video shooting more convenient and applying film convert.
film cameras are not repaired by spraying them with wd40 ;).
that why.
So that guy is a pro colorist? Hmmm
He gets paid to color ads and films so yes, he's a pro.
If you think that film looks even acceptable..... Boy something ain't right.
Film in general or the film we captured?
Uhg!! you're giving me anxiety and flashbacks!!! lol FILM IS DEAD! Please give it a proper burial.... 😂🤦🏼♂ Great work Matthew!
Ohhhh, Rick. 🤣 Haha - thanks, per usual, for a good laugh.
Film is not dead you lazy hippie
You guys need an arriflex.
Oh yeah, tell me about it!