THE AMBER KING On The Primarch Tragedy TIERLIST | Astartes Anonymous Podcast #38
Vložit
- čas přidán 8. 07. 2024
- Patreon - / astartesanonymous
Discord - / discord
Instagram - / astartesanonymous
Twitter - / astartesanonpod
Tiktok - / astartesanonymous
Ko-Fi - ko-fi.com/astartesanonymous
The Amber King - @TheAmberKing
00:00 Intro
02:50 Models Of The Week
09:14 Roboute Guilliman
16:35 Horus Lupercal
21:15 Perturabo
28:40 Angron
34:20 Jaghatai Khan
39:47 Ferrus Manus
47:00 Fulgrim
52:13 Alpharius Omegon
01:00:37 Corvus Corax
01:06:45 Lorgar Aurelian
01:14:26 Rogal Dorn
01:18:58 Konrad Curze
01:27:24 Lion El'Jonson
01:31:02 Mortarion
01:41:51 Leman Russ
01:44:52 Sanguinius
01:52:00 Vulkan
01:58:15 Magnus The Red
02:02:35 List Review
02:09:04 A Message From Tom
02:09:31 Patron Questions
All In-House Digital Assets By Moots - / lemoots
Intro/Outro by georgeNrat - Hry
The biggest tragedy for the Khan was watching or hearing his brothers make the worst decisions possible and he can’t do anything about it
I think he's underrated in combat too. He's just so fast
The curse of being a rational man in an irrational universe. It's a miracle he didn't go bugfuck insane sooner...
Didn’t he want to install the nails?? And help kill the world eaters who didn’t
@tufo6306 are you thinking of kharn not the khan
@@tufo6306 jaghatai wanted the butcher's nails?
I love that Alex is now just a permanent part of the crew
MASSIVE correction here on the relationship between Lorgar and Kor Pharon: The beatings were emotional and brutal, Lorgar 'allowing' them because he was trying to learn about any good or truth, and breaking down more than once trying understand it and it's contradictions. It wasn't 'like a nephew kicking your knee', as soon a Kor learned it didn't have that much of a physical effect he had multiple full grown men beat lorgar until his entire body was bleeding, broken and unresponsive. Lorgar also had multiple full on seizures by not knowing or comprehending his psychic abilities, going unconscious and having severe pain that he rationalized as his god talking to him. He didn't Choose to be abused, and it's pretty sad to try and rationalize anything in that book as him choosing pain, when he was only trying to understand the world. He's above Perturabo for sure, minimum.
What's even worse for Perturabo is that some of his men ignored his order to burn down his home world/decimate it. He learns of this after the fact when a space marine captain tells him that some of the men disobeyed the order. When Perturabo hears this he smiles briefly (presumably proud of them for disobeying his order) The space marine captain is confused by this and continues to tell Perturabo "Don't worry we killed them all of the for their disobedience."
Fixed grammar.
'Tell me not all of them did as I bade unquestioningly,' said Perturabo. Forrix hesitated. 'There were a few rebellious elements, my lord.' Perturabo smiled thinly, as if this were a good thing. The first captain continued. 'They have been dealt with. Please, attend to my words. You must return to the fleet.'
Sorry but WTF is that last sentence in the first paragraph?
@@Battouga Fixed it. I don't know how I worded it that badly.
Dorn was able to defy Khorne by drawing on his idea of "Just" war. Dorn has a foundational belief that war can be waged for a good reason, directly contradicting Khorne's idea of slaughter for slaughter's sake.
Dorn follows the Catholic idea of Just War Theory
I think the biggest tragedy of magnus is that hes the primarch who least wanted to fall. The one who tried his hardest to help his father and mankind. The one with the purest intentions. Yet hes one of the only ones i cant imagine having a good ending. Just by the nature of tzeetch. He didn’t have a chance from the start. And the emperor didn’t even equip him to try. The man had to outplay an almost all knowing and all powerful god of schemes and wasn't even told the god existed in the first place. The emperor made a fish, warned it of crabs, then threw it in a sharktank.
Of course there are things he could have done differently. But somehow i doubt tzeetch would have allowed him to get into contact with russ . Or communicate with terra through some other means. Or glean any information from the warp that doesn't reinforce his worst ideas
I've said it twice in chat, and I'll say it again here: Sanguinius is the most tragic of all primarchs, because he has the Lamenters as successors.
True, poor fuckers just drew all the straws, yet all of them were the shortest
Hal did explain Alpharius story line better than everyone else
Not only they didn't want to do Monarchia but even when they are ordered to do it, they do it in the most Ultramarine way possible. They give the citizens a week to leave, the assist them in leaving, they patrol the city to make sure that anyone who wanted to leave but couldn't did so and only then bombard it.
Honestly, Monarchia is a tragedy only to the mind of the average Word Bearer and Word Bearer fanboi. At worst, it was a slap on the wrist
Didn't people die and a remembrancer go blind?
@raushan3443 The people that died as well as the priestess who was blinded were amongst those that stayed because of they wanted to and represented maybe 1% of the whole city, perhaps less. If you want more details, you can pick up First Heretic, it's a very good book.
I’ll never understand the hate/disrespect for Fulgrim and his lore, probably my favourite Primark along with Sanguinious and Mortarian
People hate other people that are fond of themselves, probably some derivative of the crabs in a barrel urge. Fulgrim unironically is one of the most goated primarchs, only surpassed by guys like guilliman and sanguinius. He's a great fighter, great statesman, great general, he's one of the primarchs who can be useful outside of war unlike several who only know how to be good fighters and warlords. He's great by every metric.
@@jebrooksmaybe not a general, but defo a great swordsman and politician
@@plasticbag4102 he conquered a full planet with a handful of soldiers, which granted is not advisable but the fact he was capable of doing it I think shows he was a crazy good strategist and general. The decision to do such a thing might not be outstanding strategy on his part but I don't think he did it out of logic, he did it for ego, which was always an issue for him.
@@jebrooks and unknown little fun fact, hes one of the few thats not too arrogant to learn from mortals, marines, or other primarchs. Hes insecure and acts arrogant at points, but if you look at his whole character before being corrupted hes about as open and humble as it gets. Meanwhile when Dorn gets told someone betrayed the emperor he almost beats them to death but hes the level headed guy
@@aguspuig6615 fulgrim might be the only traitor primarch who got a net downgrade in their fall to chaos
To be fair, there is one single moment is 40k where Angron is happy... and it's when he dies after destroying the Choral Engine, and Khorne silences the Nails and gives him true peace until he reforms.
It was for 8 seconds before he was blew up, then give him oblivion after is dissipation and reformation.
By far the biggest tragedy was when Mortarion had to resort to sticking his plasma pistol in watermelons for decades after Guilliman stranded him on a backwater as punishment for his beautiful poetry about his mother.
That shit was peak comedy😂😂😂
a fan animation about the Emperor making the Word bearers kneel has a line that goes insanly hard : " God was real and he hated us "
I have a trick for keeping track of Alpharius and Omegon. "Alpharius Omegon" was found first, took the name Omegon, and is now Alpharius again. "Omegon Alpharius" was found last, took the name Alpharius, and was killed by Dorn.
Is that canon or speculation?
@exquisitecorpse__ yes lol. Which part?
@@dramsac17 I hadnt gotten to that part in the video yet I just assumed this was your theory. I get it now
@Wh40kk This is the part where I go all Perturabo and say "there's power in a name" lol. But, there is.
Most people use "first" and "last" because it's the foundational delineation between them. But "Alpharius" means first, and "Omegon" means last. So "the first who is last," and "the last who was first" seems fitting to me.
@@dramsac17 Oh I live how poetic that naming pattern is.
The only I don't agree is Vulkan, even if he's written ajusted and well, he saw the destruction of his legion in Istavaan V, he had to destroy and effigy of Ferrus Manus witnessing the fall of the Iron Hands. Got tortured to oblivion, felt unimaginable pain entering Macragges obrit. Vulkan had to help Rogal put the Emperor on the throne. He even left the Salamanders. I don't think he's right in the head. Nick Kyme did him a disservice.
I’m glad Aaron was joking about angron being cry me a river cause i’m cleaning while i watch and for a second. I was like wait has Aaron been through.
I would argue for Fulgrim to be a bit higher, he actually got married a few times while he was on Chemos and even loved his wives, but he just kept outliving them, and he ended up becoming desensitised to them until he just stopped getting married. I just think that’s really sad
Your question at the end about returning Primearchs made me think this: if you did a Corvus BirdMan warp entity kit, you could make it a 2 for 1 and have an alternative build option be Sanguinius. Treat both as these weird Warp Entities that fight Chaos in time of need like Celestine due to the Eye of Terror expanding.
Amber King and Dutch feel so right on this podcast.
Vulkan should be in truly traumatized for being given terrible books by gw.
Lot of ppl love his books what u mean
One key detail I'm not sure shows up all that well in most discussion of Perturabo, is *regret*. He regrets his actions at Olympia, as can quite clearly be seen once it is over. Likewise, during the well known "bashing Fulgrim's face into a Warhammer mini" scene, Perturabo makes multiple statements regarding Vulkan. You could interpret this as Perturabo respecting Vulkan. At the same time, however, this is after Perturabo nukes Vulkan very much with the intent to kill, and when that fails, hands Vulkan over Curze for torture, and when that continues to fail, builds a duplicate of the maze Perturabo's workshop is kept in to assist with the torture. This certainly doesn't scream respect.
The seeming reason Perturabo is complimenting Vulkan, is by comparison to Fulgrim. Fulgrim has thrown away his craft, Vulkan has perfected it. Fulgrim is selfish, Vulkan is selfless. The Perturabo discussion about Vulkan is Perturabo's regret at the situation he has put himself into, having joined the side of lunatics, comparing who he is with to the alternative.
I have a lot of sympathy for Perurabo. I like the competency and can relate cause I have some social deficits as well.
Isyander and koda collab????
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Angron The Red Angel?
Just finished Hammer of Olympia a little while ago and Perturabo isn’t actually all that sympathetic. His foster father wasn’t a great guy but he did try so many times to connect with Perty in his own way. But the two could never seem to understand one another and the politics of the world did play a part. Perturabo’s sister brings up excellent points about just how little Perturabo tried to fit in or understand others. And Olympia was noncompliant in the loosest sense. They just wanted to chat and get a better deal for their world cause Perturabo kept getting all their soldiers killed. They were starting to suffer from serious depopulation issues. Then he came back and killed them all.
Also. The fact they wanted to put Kurze lower because he didn’t try to improve his situation when Perturabo is the definition of that kind of behavior and he got a lot of sympathy is crazy. Lol
As always, shitting on Magnus and his decisions will never not be hilarious.
You guys should do a list ranking primarchs badass feats
Konrad completely belongs to cry me a river, bc at one point in one of his books where we see his life on Nostramo at one point he had 2 possible futures as he was about to kill a child. 1 future was that if he hesitates the kid will run away and then grow up to kill him, and the 2nd future was that if he forgives the kid he would become the robin to his batman and he would be able to show him how to forgive people and grow as a person. And after he kills the kid, it's discovered that the kid did not have the weapon that he saw in the 1st future.
Come on guys....Hal knows what's up...Curze was COMPLETELY alone....imagine if the Knights of Caliban had never found the Lion and Luther hadn't brought him in and cared for him.....How would the Lion have ended up ? Probably completely feral and unable to relate to any other person he shares a genetic link to.
When's Red coming back?
Yeah we want red
Probably when his schedule opens up.
For a man of any worth to emperor ultra grade depression is the bare minimum required
Ultra Depressed?!? PUSH FORWARD
Don't stop telling guests to say they're gay, its funny.
Of course Guilliman is saving the Imperium, he's a well-adjusted human being. Do you know how rare that is in 40k?
I maintain my position that Fulgrim fell the furthest of all the traitors.
I'd put Leman higher on the list atleast to dreary demi-god. Next to Dorn he took the loss of the Emperor very hard to the point ran from his broken form in grief and shame that he couldn't save him, he got furious with Constantine Valdor a long time friend on not getting atleast angry at the fact the emperor is 'dead' and he was grieving the loss of his brother and rival Lion'El Jonson in a space wolf short story where this space wolf was going through the trails and found leman in a cave drinking alone. I agree that Leman had a pretty good upbringing but hes been through the ringer with losing his brothers, the emperor and even his sons when he couldn't take out Horus and his sons had to bail him out which he didn't want.
But as the rest of the brothers go next to Vulkan he makes a great sounding board by convincing Corvus not to sacrifice himself cause he found out hes made of the warp and Leman told Corvus he got stabbed with the Dionysian spear and chose to face Horus anyway despite knowing the truth of his existence and let Lion vent to Leman by letting himself get stabbed which I imagine hurt like a mf.
TLDR Leman has been through shit during the Heresy and came out of it ashamed and losing brothers left and right including his dad and despite taking the blows he had to be atleast be there for his brothers that where left since Corvus was suicidal and Lion was just unfamiliar with the feeling of losing someone close and could quite process the feeling and just took it out on Leman cause he of all people could understand him.
Bruh, Lorgar is Angron tier
Somewhat Mortarion was right about fearing the psyckers that would be is downfall... Ladys and gentlemen, enter CALAS TYPHON!
Vulkan should have been in truly traumatized for having to be in the War of the Beast
It's really unfair for Peter Turbo to think Big E would take him to dinner when Sanguinius is literally the best son a father could ever ask for.
But Conrad did try "good" and then it turned just like in his visions , stuff got worse as soon as he was gone. Plus yes he and Sang had visions, but Sang was instantly beloved by all. Conrad was the opposit. To a point where terran officials send assassins to kill him. Which was before Horus got corrupted.
Freakin Amber dabbing on the traumarchs
Great episode lads! but I can't help but feel there is something missing, where the hell is red he's been MIA the past few episodes
Iam worried, does Red still want to do podcasts?
I think they said a couple weeks ago that red’s gonna be gone for a few weeks due to his job
I has never thought about the facy that kurz had survived eating murderers and absorbed their evil... 1:23:42
I feel like Curze is the most tragic only second to Angron but my only defence of him is he's just like me fr
i swear shrewsbury and calth being compared might the funniest thing i've heard in awhile
Honestly I disagree with where Angron is placed.
Because he chose to be a tyrannical monster, even through everything he experienced. His son's didn't get his gladiators killed and yet he subjected them to his torture. Hell, Conrad is more tragic then him.
Great Show lads. Keep it up, any plans with putting isyander and koda in?
Shrumzy, word of the day, tysm😊
To be unfair to Konrad he did torture a women to death for the crime of trying to commit suicide.
Thanks 😊
Love how just like they mentioned at the beginning, Guilliman randomly ends up right in the middle lol (especially if you count the twins as 2 separate)
What is a surumsee? Shurumze? The thing amber king said in the models of the week with the deathgaurd.
They described it outside of being bleeped as when you expel...stuff (in the case of the models, a noxious looking gas) from every orifice of your body. It's not just gas, it can be other stuff that CZcams now forces people to bleep needlessly.
another Primarch Tier List. HELL YEAH!!!
Hi astartes~ ❤
Been meaning to ask, wheres the intro idle animation from? It looks like something from a classic 80s mecha anime.
55:47 the Alphalegion is tinfoil hat mode what are you talking about. Alpharius and Omegon are two sides of the same coin. Unless it’s their purpose aka sabotage espionage and assassination.
59:19 at the end of the book “head of the hydra” Alpharius said that this is his record and all records lie. So we don’t know for sure.
Ofc Fulgrim, literally the guy in the thumbnail, has to be on the least tragic category
The thing I've never understood with the Cabal thing, is they're given a choice between a death in a few generations if Horus wins, or a death in 10k years if the Emperor wins.... The obvious answer for me, is the Emperor wins and you get 10K years to solve the problem XD
And the xenos lives that would be also destroyed if the Emperor wins don't really matter for the Imperium ^^
episode on brainstorming book ideas for xenos when?
48:20 he literally gets possessed and loses control of his body to a demon tho
Met another primarch withe same problem 😂 but that other primarch is also the golden child
Curze & Mortarion should definitely be up there with Angron in Trully Traumatized
Mortarion is that character who got dealt every bad hand, but just finds ways to make himself unsympathetic at every turn
What about angrons dog
Please do more lists with xenos characters
Wasn't referenced this week. Its so incredibly jover.
Hello
The Conrad curze copium was cringe hal
Loving this democrussey!
Cease and desist
Xur.
He does look a lot like the Agent of The Nine
Cdf