Fanny Price's Imagination | Jane Austen MANSFIELD PARK analysis | Edmund Bertram & Mary Crawford
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- čas přidán 10. 07. 2024
- Jane Austen MANSFIELD PARK analysis | What does Fanny Price see going on between Mary Crawford & Edmund Bertram? And what does she imagine? "the imagination supplied what the eye could not reach". How does Austen's narrative voice show Fanny Price's pain at what she's seeing? Close reading & analysis of Jane Austen's Mansfield Park (particularly how Fanny Price interprets seeing Edmund Bertram & Mary Crawford).
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Do leave any comments that you have.
Do you empathise with Fanny’s tortured imagination here?
when emotions are involved, over thinking and imagining things out of nothing tend to come quite natural I am afraid ahaha. I had never noticed those passages before, thank you so much for making these videos, it is fascinating to hear passages we might not have proper paied attention to, and properly think about them
I agree! - I think Austen presents this scene completely naturally from Fanny's (imaginary?) perspective.
It's absolutely my pleasure! Austen is brilliant to close read because her writing is always packed so full of different meanings and possible interpretations.
When I first read Mansfield Park, I felt embarrassed for Fanny, not knowing how to manage a hopeless crush. Have reread it since, more than once, & Jane Austen's other novels, I've recognized the portrait of a nearly powerless person, who still has the strength to love at all. Also I can't help liking some of the minor characters, like Tom Bertram, and honestly for years I felt that Mrs. Norris is the most evil character ever. I was somewhat mollified by her name having been given to the cat in one of the Harry Potter books, which cat was petrified by a basilisk, and then unpetrified . Sort of like not quite parallel fictional universe karma.
I felt Fanny's grief very deeply in this book. Edmund had accepted his lot in life as a second son and what that meant for his future but he is wrongly attracted to Mary who is not right for him at all and has high aspirations for him that he does not feel. Fanny sees all this and does not trust Mary or her brother.
Mansfield Park was my least favorite Austen novel when I first read it. I found myself enjoying Mary Crawford's wit and vivacity, and her spirited defense of Fanny when Aunt Norris was being particularly cruel. After 40 years of life experience and multiple re-readings of all six novels, my ground has shifted. I see Fanny Price as the strongest of Austen's heroines. She is constantly belittled and constrained, humbled over and over, by everyone, even Edmund. Yet, as unfailing gentle and retiring as she is, as quick to serve and please others, she turns into granite when pressed to accept the charming, rich Henry Crawford. Her terrifying uncle can't bend her to his will. She is a rock. She is the only character who sees into the heart of the superficially beguiling Henry Crawford and correctly judges him. It's extraordinary. It's her sole power and she uses it, despite banishment from relative ease and luxury to her birth family's shabby house in Portsmouth. It is so satisfying to witness her growth in strength of mind and character, finding her place in her father's chaotic household, helping those siblings who show potential for improvement and again soothing where she can't overcome. It's her absence from Mansfield that delineates her power. She has sole ability to heal the family after Maria's scandalous elopement.
So perceptive. I have sometimes struggled to come up with a defense for Fanny (my favorite Austen heroine as well) when she is described as bland or mousy or weak-willed. But what you have written makes me want to cheer on her behalf.
Indeed, Fanny stands out among Austen’s other female protagonists, much as she does at Mansfield park, for doing the most with the least.
She has little to work with. Not only did she come from a home of relative poverty, but she is not possessed of extraordinary beauty, or staggering intellect, or clever wit. She hasn’t even basic good health. She has no close confidant, no staunch advocate, no models for moral uprightness.
And yet she stands alone when it matters most, not even fully approved by her own conscience which is conditioned to consider herself ungrateful.
She gives graciously, judges wisely, counsels ethically (even when disregarded), submits but also resists with good sense and striking humility.
It baffles me that the character is not better loved as an everywoman to admire and with whom to deeply connect.
I've always preferred Pride and Prejudice and Persuasion and I'm not sure I've reread MP since my mid 20s when I have to admit, I thought the same as you. I'd be really interested to reread it now, 20 years on, for a fresh perspective, esp after your comments!
I can't stand Edmund. Fanny deserved better.
Mansfield Park and Emma and the heroines grew on me over the years. P & P always the favourite.
@@crystalward1444 I agree completely. I wonder how happy her married years actually were. Edward is a bully.
Funny story. English is my 3rd language. I read Austen's novels years ago and loved them (I have the Penguin editions with notes). I got into the habit of reading them about once a year. At first I struggled with the language a lot. I had to get used to "calling" meaning visiting, etc. In year 7 I suddenly surprised myself by laughing outloud. It took me 7 years to understand how funny she really is.
I always had the feeling that Fanny was discovering for herself that she was in love with Edmund. It seemed to me that Mary's arrival forced Fanny to examine her feelings and that they were deeper than gratitude for kindness and sisterly affection.
Gemma, I am of your opinion in this. It reminds me of Mr. Knightley looking on as Mr. Churchill sweeps in and threatens his position in Emma’s affections; of Knightley being jealous of Churchill and realizing that he himself is in love with Emma.
a little bit like Knightley who realises he is in love with Emma once Frank Churchill comes around and "threatens" his state of life
I have been there. I adore Fanny in part because I AM Fanny. Jane writes so well that she must have known that pang. I have seen what the eye could not. Have not you? In addition, Fanny’s inner life is so well developed, so acute, in large part because she lives an almost invisible, unacknowledged life, the opposite of unexamined. She sees all, yet says nothing. I once read a novel in a Russian language class that was titled “God sees all, yet says nothing” - in Mansfield Park, Fanny’s eye is the eye of God. Look at her instinctive reaction to the theatricals for evidence. She had to be FORCED to speak out, after initially expressing her opposition. Once she is eventually noticed - by Sir Thomas and Lady Bertram, by Edmund, who only partly appreciated her until his self-centered existence was shaken, and by Henry and Mary Crawford (what an indirect condemnation of Maria and Julia, there) - her worth is felt. Her aunt Norris CONSTANTLY noticed her, but only as a convenience, a workhorse. How existentially ironic. Mansfield Park is my favorite Jane Austen novel, I identify so closely with Fanny Price. Maybe my autism and the difficult upbringing that outcasted me because of it make me sensitive to Fanny’s plight.
i think Mrs Norris was envious of Fanny; jealous and resentful, and felt threatened by her.
Whenever I read this scene in MANSFIELD PARK, I feel so deeply sad and lonely for Fanny. What a terrible situation for her.
Years of suffering, especially with the vicious Aunt Norris, who for my money is the worst character in Austen.
Dr. Cox,
Even if you don't see this comment, I wanted to thank you for putting all this content out here. It makes the literature mean even more to me.
Much appreciated!
This enlightens how Fanny coasts around her love for Edmund in her inner dialog all through the novel. I found it particularly striking in the scene where she discusses her denial of Mr Crawford with Sir Thomas in the East Room.
Fanny doesn't need to imagine the party she's watching as being cheerful. It's "beyond a doubt" because she can hear their merriment that's loud enough to reach her some distance off.
Thank you Dr. Cox. This was beautiful and heartbreaking. So deep.
I agree - Austen captures Fanny's intense pain so beautifully. She details Fanny trying to process her thoughts and feelings with such nuance and subtlety. And verisimilitude!
I find Austen's writing style so fascinating; I think here it enables the reader to put themselves in Fanny's place and experience empathy for her and an ability to view her world through her eyes. Just what I need right now in this world we live in today!
I cannot agree more with what you said about Fanny's love being kept a secret, even from the reader! It was never explicitly said. We had to infer it through her actions and thoughts.
Yes, it's almost the unsaid fuel that keeps her going through the novel: "Her secret was still her own; and while that was the case, she thought she could resign herself to almost everything" (ch.36).
@@DrOctaviaCoxYes!! Thank you so much for your videos. They are amazing!Jane Austen is one of my favourite authors and I love hearing your opinions on her novels
Naively I assumed that Fanny would never be allowed to marry Edmund, being his cousin, so found it mortifying that’s Fanny’s jealousy and devotion appeared to be destroying her…
Thanks Dr. Cox. Your contribution to literature is a gift. Much appreciated. I never liked Fanny Price, but this video changed my mind. Previously i though Fanny was eerily silent, calculative, and planned to take over Mansfield Park. But in essence Fanny is deeply in love, and is a savior for the Bertram family than previously understood. She is compared to the superficial love of Mary Crawford. Fanny Price and Anne Elliot of Persuasion would be good friends.
I don't mind Fanny, but she deserved better than Edmund. I think he was a jerk for lending the horse to Mary.
My husband has an anxiety disorder which has caused him to have seizures. We found in Fanny a kindred spirit for him. When fighting anxiety and feelings of ineptitude just saying hello is an accomplishment. We found her strengths to be overshadowed by Mary’s lack of control and decorum. Akin to Marianne and Elinor in Sense and sensibility the person who appears insipid and weak may truly be a rod of iron in moments of true accountability.
I am interested in your opinion as to why it took so long for Mrs Bennet to get Jane and Bingley alone together at last. Movies never show that it took more than one visit for him to “bag” her. 😅
So Austen is building a sense of realism with Fanny's imagination?
Brilliant!
At least to me her emotions and how they are portrayed here makes Fanny appear and feel more real/truly human.
This is a beautiful explication of the passage and, as always, you read it so well. But I think a little more context might be helpful. Fanny, as I recall, has not just happened upon the scene; it was her time to ride the very horse Edmund had trotted out for Mary. A particular point had been made (again, as I am remembering from reading the novel many years ago) about the necessity of Fanny riding for her health. Edmund and Mary’s thoughtlessness, therefore, is not merely inconveniencing Fanny by delaying a pleasure, but interfering with her exercise and well-being. The fact that Mary is riding *Fanny’s* mare symbolizes the way Mary has very much replaced Fanny in Edmund’s regard, even as it serves as a reminder of his former care for her and as a foreshadowing that he will come to care for her, in a deeper fashion, again at the end of the novel. That’s a lot for one poor mare to carry. No wonder Fanny is concerned about its double-burden.
Thank you, Ruth. Yes, absolutely - beautifully articulated point. In part Fanny filters her jealousy (it seems to me) through her concern for the horse: "She began to think it rather hard upon the mare to have such double duty; if she were forgotten, the poor mare should be remembered". As you suggest, the episode symbolises Edmund's transferred attentions, which impact negatively on Fanny's pleasure and health in deeper ways than simply not riding the "poor mare".
This scene actually made me hate Edmund because he took her horse. I feel more for Fanny being in love with someone who is in a way so wrong for her. It almost goes to show how unsatisfying ending up with an infatuation really plays out.
thank you ms. Cox. You make me THINK.
No problem. I'm always pleased to have made anyone think (or indeed rethink) literature!
these videos are so interesting! thank you for making them!!
Thanks. You're very welcome. Octavia
I think it's so interesting that you emphasized the wording, "what the eye could not reach." There are so many instances in Austen where people are able to communicate through their facial expressions, specifically the eyes alone (which I think is a fairly common Gothic trope). One passage in "Northanger Abbey" comes to mind, when Catherine wishes to give James her congratulations after learning that he and Isabella are engaged, but she doesn't have the words to articulate it, and Austen tells us something like, "the eight parts of speech shone out through her eyes" and James was able to see them all and arrange them into a coherent sentence! I just love that. But here, Edmund is too far away for Fanny's looks to reach him and communicate her pain to him.
Thank you! I studied German literature at an English uni in the 80s but for fun I read English novels (English is my first language) voraciously and wish I had more interpretation tools. I'm learning a lot from you.
You're very welcome!
I think the fact that she kept her feelings secret really add to the ending where she can surprise Edmund who thought she would have to be convinced to marry him. I thought that was too cute!
Thank you for this video. I think, Fanny's reaching out and creating proof for Edmund and Mary's love is also a means of disciplinning herself, of coping and making her life at Mansfield Park work. A little like Jane Eyre drawing a beautiful picture of Blanche Ingram, making herself see, that rochester cannot but love Blanche (CZcams suggets one of your Bronte-videos to me :-)).
And by Edmund's attention to Mary we see, how very aware Fanny is of her situation. I think, Mansfield Park is Austen's soberest book.
I'm almost two years late to this party, but I hope you see my comment anyway. I'd love to hear more of your ideas about MANSFIELD PARK.
This is a great analysis and you really capture the feeling of the scene playing out here. You asked for ideas for future videos? I have a request:
I would love you to do a video someday about the character, Edmund Bertram. He is the "hero" of this book, so why don't I like him? He is represented as an upright man that is worthy of Fanny's love. But, time after time in this story, Edmund fails to live up to the image that Fanny has constructed for him.
Why does does this story have such and unsatisfying ending for Fanny? She ends up happy, but she deserved more. Henry Crawford could never have been better for her, but I cannot help but feel that somewhere at his core, Henry loved Fanny more than Edmund ever could. It really irritated me at the end how part of Edmund's love for Fanny was rooted in the fact that he had "formed all her opinions and tastes". Ewe. He seems very selfish to me and his love feels selfish, too.
At the end of the book, I couldn't be completely happy for Fanny. Henry would have ruined her life, but it didn't seem like Edmund would ever really love her for who she really was instead of for who he had made her to be. Two pretty sad choices. I was left wondering if it was better to be married to a bad man who truly loved her, or to be married to a good man who would never truly see her and whose love might never be all it could be.
I thought it was interesting that Jane Austen did not include a scene where Edmund confessed his love for her and the reader could feel the truth of that love. There was no storyline that helps the reader to witness Edmund's growth. We only know that at some point, Edmund replaced Mary with Fanny in his affections, but we never actually see him change. He feels sorry for himself until his heartbreak is exhausted and he is ready for a replacement. Only then does he start to think of Fanny. 😳
Most of her other books included this type of scene between the main characters where there is a satisfying resolution and all characters work out the issues that the books brought them through. But in this book, there was a simple narration stating that at some point, Edmund decided that Fanny might do as wall as Mary - maybe even better. It was underwhelming. (NORTHANGER ABBY had a similar anticlimactic resolution, but I was not bothered about this and loved the ending. I don't know what the difference was.)
MANSFIELD PARK was so thought provoking on so many levels. I think Jane Austen gives us reason to believe that nothing in this book is exactly how it seems. And, I crave a good solid discussion of this book.
But Fanny was correct. Sh3 might have imagined it all at first but it came to be that Edmund was indeed desperately in love with MS. Crawford. I consider that great intuitiveness on Fanny's part.
Yes! I agree. She imagined, but she was never far off. Like ever. Her intuition was important. Growing up in a household where you had to always behave, you'd have razor sharp perception of the needs and wishes of others.
Thank you. Super fascinating. I have an assignment inviting a comparison between Mansfield Park and 1984 (strange, I know). Your video has truly given me a lightbulb moment as I'm starting to see similarities!
Brilliant! - very pleased to have helped. Octavia
What a terrible topic, poor you.
I read the "beyond a doubt" the opposite way. She wants to believe that they're not happy, but there's no room for her to believe that - and that in turn makes her unhappy.
I read "even to her" as emphasizing how loudly happy they were being, to the point that the sound traveled half a mile to Fanny.
I like your term 'Meta-Imagination. It is often confounded with 'irony 'and 'indirect discourse' It is not limited to Fanny, it occurs in 'Sense and Sensibility' and in 'Persuasion' but there is a passage in 'Northanger Abbey' where Miss Tilney makes her first appearance, she {Miss Tilney ] appears able to be at a dance without affectation and not imagining that every man's eyes werefixed on her. From the appearance of Miss Tilney Catherine is immunised against the articiality of Isabella. I have always believed that Catherine is under-estimated by critics because too much attention is given to this work is a satire on the Gothic imagination. Miss Tilney is one of the most interesting characters in Jane Austen canon because he plays many functions. This discussion is one of the best studies of 'Mansfield Park
Your videos are such fun! To look closely at HOW an artist achieves her effects surely increases my delight in her works as a whole!
This is my second comment, but as I was listening to what you were saying about how Fanny could not look away, it made me think of a train wreck or car crash.
Fanny was watching her chances of having a romantic relationship with Edmund disintegrate with every moment he spent with Mary Crawford. Of course, Fanny also knew that Mary was not the right person for Edmund, but he could not see that. So Fanny is watching her own trainwreck, and though horrified, can't turn away.
But in this instance, her imagination is accurate. At least it turns out to be. Edmund is freaking over the moon about Mary. He's so attracted to her physically and intrigued by her quick wit--if you can call it that-- that he keeps disregarding the obvious clues in her own words which reveal her true priorities and character. So Fanny may be imagining more than what she can see from the house, but as an excellent observer of others, and even though she's personally hurt by what she sees, her judgment of the situation is accurate.
yes, i do empathize with fanny's tortured imagination. it's interesting that Fanny makes up things that she sees, but less so than Edmund does, as it takes him almost the whole narrative to realize that he has made up Mary Crawford's character and fallen in love with that construct when she constantly reveals to him who she really is.
He hasn't made up Mary's character, in fact, he is acutely aware of it, and continually explores it with Fanny--so painful for her. But Edmund keeps hoping in spite of all evidence you mention to the contrary, that Mary will accept him and his calling as they are. Meanwhile, Mary is busily doing the same thing in reverse, hoping Edmund will give up this ridiculous idea of the ministry. Her lowest point is wishing Tom would die so that Edmund would be the heir.
This is such a wonderful discussion! I'm truly enjoying your presentations because I've just read all six Austen novels one after another, so they are fresh in my mind.
I have difficulty remembering names, even in novels I have read multiple times. So I love these refreshers and the insights into Austin's deep, multi-level, rich writing style. And because Austin was such a brilliant observer of people and had such a wonderful imagination of her own of what they might be thinking or knowing about a situation, as readers, I think we can easily imagine what her characters are like. I think we can remember or see people who behave in similar ways. And, as you discuss in this lecture, we can sometimes know exactly what the heroin is thinking and feeling, as in the scene of Fanny watching Henry and Mary on the horses and Fanny feeling far away on the outside, not a part of the happiness she imagines. I think we all do that from time to time.
Have you ever done a comparison of each of Austen's heroines? Each one is so different from the other. I imagine Austin was inspired by the people around her--for better and worse-- to create her characters. And I imagine some, in part, represent how she sees herself. There are also likely some unconscious elements in her books which reveal things about her only an impartial eye can discern.
I had wanted different careers in literature, but raising two children and battling multiple illnesses made these careers impossible. But I do have a huge collection of poetry in many different styles. I always wondered what people would say about my poetry and about me if they were published in my lifetime.
As writers we pour over our work and edit each word, phrase, paragraph, and collection to be certain our writing carefully expresses PRECISELY what we want to express and NOTHING more. But readers of other people's writings always see more! And the better we know the author, the better view we have into their priorities, opinions, thoughts, and indeed, their imagination.
How impactful this video is, to help show the intent, thoughtfulness and depth of the author, Jane Austin You do a beautiful job. I appreciate the work of Jane Austin so much more from listening and watching your videos. Understanding context, the depth and meaning of the words and phrases and the English language. Thank you!
I just finished Mansfield Park for a second time yesterday. Fanny is definitely a lot more complex than I remember.
I'd be interested in a video about the Crawford's. Specifically, Mary Crawford's character building, and what happened with Henry Crawford.
"Such a secret that it is even kept from the reader" Yes! TBH, I always say it as Fanny so deeply in denial that she doesn't even know the secret HERSELF. She knows to well that it would be improper, as her education from Sir Thomas would tell her, that SHE doesn't even know her own secret as of that point in the story...
Fanny is the poor unfortunate relation. She wasn't treated as an equal. She was at the mercy of everyone at Mansfield.
Yes and when she was back at home she didn't feel belonging there either.
@@charlotteottaway2208 It kind of reminds me of kids post divorce where the dad's place is the super nice, large, pool, frig full party weekend house where the mom's apartment is sharing a bedroom, school and homework "drudgery".
Thank you for the video! I really enjoyed this.
Poor Fanny had her means of horse riding taken from her, and transferred to the lucky Mary. Until Edmund realised what he'd done.
And she is made to leave her own ball while everyone else is allowed to stay and continue the party.
Your videos are an educational gift. Thank you 🙏
A brilliant analysis of tone and colour through diction and its intent . Thank you Dr Octavia.
-from Australia.
So pleased to have found your videos!
Excellent! - glad you enjoy them. Thanks for watching.
I had an interesting difference of opinion in an online book club dealing with, did Mary Crawford know Fanny Price was in love with Edmund Bertram. I argued yes, but I could see I had little evidence to support that theory. What do you think? Did Miss Crawford know of Fanny’s infatuation with Edmund? Was Mary rubbing salt in the wound unawares or on purpose?
Because she was narcissistic I think it's very plausible she was aware of Fanny's love for him. I think she feigned interest just to torture Fanny. She was the female version of Henry.
@@ad6417 Or because she was narcissistic, she had no clue. She was sincere in her interest in Edmund, but wished him to be quite different from what he was. Teasing Fanny was accidental.
What a beautiful Analysis - a reason for me to read Mansfield Park again!
I didn't like it so much, but I must have overseen many aspects of the novel!
I always found Fanny’s love for Edmund almost too obsessive. Even when he’s clearly interested in another woman and seems to see Fanny as a sister, she is unable to let him go and suffers horrible jealousy, constantly comparing herself to Mary and continually boosting herself up as the morally superior because she can’t compete in other ways (beauty, wealth, prestige, experience, etc.). Her love for Edmund defines her completely and she practically builds her life around her vision of what a perfect wife to a clergyman might be. It would be fascinating to see how different a character she would have been had Edmund not been intended for the church.
Yes, I would even say it's a degrading love, because she is happy to be 'sloppy seconds' after things don't work out with Mary. It's another one of Austen's weird endings and pseudo-romantic marriages.
@@simonestreeter1518 I think of it more as her trauma. Separated from family at a young age. Edmund was who she attached to because he was kind to her. She's a second class citizen in her home at Mansfield but not with Edmund.
@@charlotteottaway2208 Oh yes, I agree. I think Austen did an admirable job of describing the emotional reaction of someone repeatedly traumatised. But that does not mean she would automatically be immune to Henry Crawford's very warm advances. I think her value system was oriented toward controlled and predictable over depth of love and esteem.
@@simonestreeter1518 No, she is just a natural observer and saw his true character where he enjoyed toying with women to build his self esteem. Jane Austen even says that over time Fanny would have fallen for Henry and his charming nature but over time means he is delaying gratification and enduring- which means he overcame his "player nature". But Henry was constitutionally incapable of being constant.
@@cminmd0041 I did see it exactly the way you describe the first couple of times I read Mansfield Park. Now I think that Austen leaves us with clues that it's possible Henry could have changed for her, and that her quiet willfulness worked to shortchange her in the end. Just a hunch I have. But an interesting discussion, thanks!
Dr. Cox, I recently discovered your videos, and I believe I've started with the more recent ones. Just now I watched this, and in comparison I have to say that, as nice is it is to see you, your cadence has a more powerful effect in this video, with sound only. I am not sure, but it seems that you edit the videos in which you are visible in such a way that the pace is faster and less even. I wish one could experience both!
At 21:23 - It's not that Fanny can't admit to herself that she is unhappy or disappointed. She has been told that she has no right to be unhappy, or she will be thought ungrateful. So... Yes, she is unhappy. But she isn't permitted to be unhappy on her own account, because she would be ungrateful (regardless of her legitimate complaints). Therefore, she IS thinking about the horse.
Yes, even Fanny's happiness is thought of less than that of the exhaustion of the horse. It is an injustice that Fanny has no choice but to think of things in this way or be scolded for being ungrateful.
Fascinating, thank you very much for this! I never thought Fanny a very unreliable "narrator/observer" (unlike Emma, for example), exactly because she is so removed from the others. So while she does not observe the scene in total focus, because she is so far away, there is no reason to believe that she is not right in what she imagines? Edmund *is* falling for Miss Crawford, and they are enjoying themselves so well that they forget the time (or rather he does. Mis Crawford is aware of the time and just doesn't care, because she is also having fun, and she is selfish.)
Now I need to listen to more about your videos. Have you talked about Persuasion? Anne to me seems one of the most reliable narratiove voices (I mean, I am aware that none of Jane Austen's novels was written in first person, but it is her heronie's observation she most frequently describes.)
Oh yes Fanny is clearly right in sensing that Edmund is falling for Mary. I just love the way that Austen represents the mind in this passage - and how accurate it is that - especially when one feels that one is right about something - "the imagination supplied what the eye could not reach". Beautiful phrase!
Ah, if you are interested in Austen's representation of internal thought, I have a video about Anne Elliot's self-persuasions, which you might find interesting:
czcams.com/video/TFHy9DKr3BI/video.html
@@DrOctaviaCox Thank you, it is a beautiful phrase, and I will definitely watch your video on Anne Elliot's self-persuasions, thank you for the link! Persuasion is my favourite Austen novel!
At 9:43 - While it's true that Fanny Price sees herself outside of everyone, time after time, that is a point that has been forcefully made to her. SHE is separate. SHE is only a cousin, who is treated very separately. She is NOT treated equally, particularly by Mrs. Norris, everyone's aunt.
One of those things is that each of the Bertram siblings have their own horse, the gentle one that is kept for Fanny's use (not belonging to Fanny) is being used by Miss Crawford. And it has been brought to Fanny's attention that she has no right to complain, even though logically she has every right to complain.
Fanny isn't just being voyeuristic. She is seeing what else is going on.
On the whole I found this interesting, but I have a few reservations:
1. You state at the beginning that Fanny wants to observe them, and goes out. She does go out, but she does it because of her Aunt Norris' nagging.
2. You talk about Fanny's concluding that they are cheerful as part of her imagination - but according to the text, she hears the sounds of merriment.
3. Fanny's displacing her being upset about her being neglected to being concerned on the horse is certainly a bit of self-deception - but it also fits with Fanny's (and the anglican doctrine's) always trying to control her thoughts and not see herself as privileged or entitled in any way. For comparison, think of the way the girls were supposed to be brought up at Lowood in "Jane Eyre", and of Helen Burns' embracing the ideal of submission and self-faulting.
Brilliant analysis! Thank you for taking us so deeply into Austen’s art.
Do you know anything of Austen’s work process? Just the fact that paper was an expensive item might limit the amount of rewriting she could do. Do you know if she did much rewriting? Or did she have to plan out her language in her head very carefully, before committing it to paper?
For myself, I have to rewrite a lot to be satisfied that I’m saying something that’s comprehensible.
And something that struck me as remarkable about this work after listening to the analysis, is the way Fanny is depicted. As you said, she is jealous, almost obsessed, with Edmund. He is her whole world, her one bright spot, her solace.
She depicts a woman in a way that women were not allowed to behave: jealous, obsessive. Talk about the passions of Gothic writing! She gives Fanny some of the characteristics of a Gothic villain, although she is never cruel. Has any other writer of her day had this kind of heroine?
She can seem like the dullest of Jane’s heroines, but perhaps she’s simply the most constrained. She is little better than a servant. She can be turned off as easily. She is treated barely better. As with a governess, she is slightly above the servants but not equal to anyone else, so there is no real camaraderie. At least the servants might have real relationships with each other.
Please, please, please analyse Mr. Darcy's proposal.
Until this very moment I actually believed exactly what Fannie believed! 🤯
I couldn’t figure out what “metter imagination”, so glad you put it on screen. We Americans don’t add the R sound to such words.
Meta-Imagination. Meta i km s a greek word
Have you done a video about how Henry Crawford's brain worked?
Henry Crawford is one of JA's most blatent men. Taking into account his situation in life and lack of self-control (let alone self-respect), probably the best description of the way his brain worked is "predictably".
Like a selfish psycho, that's how his brain worked 😂 (if you can't guess, I don't like that character much)
I am curious about Mr. Grant. What is his relationship with the other characters. ??
If you mean literally, he is married to the half-sister of Mary and Henry Crawford, and is a vicar holding a living which is granted by Sir Thomas Bertram, the rectory of which is located very near the main house of Mansfield Park. (Mrs. Norris' husband, now dead, had held the living before Mr. Grant.) He is rather ambitious and rather fussy, making Mrs. Grant's life rather harder.
Makes me wonder when Austen write this in her life with reference with LaFroy? Was this written after?
Yes.
Please forgive my bad grammar! 😣
@@sheryllknapp9803 Your grammar is fine.
It would be interesting to know how her relationship with Le Froy influenced her writing.
Would you say Maria Bertram does something similar with Henry Crawford? Is she projecting onto him, creating a fantasy? (Until she throws herself at him and he moves on it?) Seems like the consequences of dreams gone bad are real enough. Was Mary Crawford projecting onto Edmund? Wanting him to be something he wasn't or just playing? I think of how Mr Tilney decides or feels he is attracted to Catherine because he learned she had a crush on him. Similarly, Lizzy Bennet after Darcy proposes the first time, or crazy Harriet fed a line and fantasizing she is in love with any man who crosses her path--if not herself, then Emma's notion. Of course all the stories are fantasy. :)
I don't believe Mary was interested in Edmund at all. Like her brother I believe it was just a game that she played to see if she could get him to fall in love. An odious woman.
@@ad6417 No, she was fond of him, at least enough so that the memory of him put her off other suitors after they parted. But still, an odious woman.
Fanny is in love but Edmund doesn't realize it until the end - should she have been more demonstrative?
If she was, Sir Thomas probably would have seen it and sent her back to Portsmouth though. And if he hadn't, Mrs. Norris would have seen her being affectionate and tattled.
She couldn't be. For the reasons cited in the comment above, and also because I think she felt it wrong. And certainly it would have been to no avail to be demonstrative with Edmund until after he had seen Mary for who she really was.
Around the 20th minute or so you said ''Fanny was not allowed to be in love with Edmund'' - why is she not allowed? Because of her status?
When her aunt suggests she be brought to Mansfield Park to be raised in a better situation, Sir Thomas says he doesn't want cousins falling in love with cousins and getting married. He wants to place his sons with 'better' families. So the aunt says she is young enough that they will grow up together and be more like brother and sister and therefore won't do something as distasteful as fall in love. So from the beginning it is understood that the Bertram boys are off limits to Fanny.
I think that's why I did not like Fanny Price - she seems to choose to be morose. Teenage angst? In retrospect I wonder if it brought up my own feelings from teen years. In comparison my fav character Eliza Bennett appears almost effortlessly cheerful. I first read the books as a young teen so may have wanted to be like Elizabeth and felt too much like Fanny? Austen writing was genius. She wrote about her time so wrote about all times. 🙂