Forgot to mention in the video, I also tried Cyberpunk with ray tracing on the 4060 to see if maybe using the RT cores would bypass the limit, but it was no different.
On desktop is actually simpler games that consume more because they have an higher GPU occupancy, ray tracing could actually be counter productive as it cause lower occupancy due to its inherent incoherent instructions and memory access pattern. DLSS will lower the resolution which may hit occupancy too, maybe DLAA would push more
Hey Jarrod. Is this hard voltage lock on desktop as well? Also what's your theory on this? I'm thinking board partners were kind of in the dark or they would not have designed things around higher TDP's and the extra money that entails.🤔
On one hand, it's good because these GPUs can achieve the same performance without sucking down as much power as Ampere. On the other hand, the scaling is literal garbage once you hit 90 watts on these, yet they'll still be sold under the pretense of being more powerful than they are with the voltage limit they have.
Please let's take a minute to appreciate what Jarrod is doing for us here, I salute you man. I don't know without you how we would know these dirty quirks by Nvidia. Thank you so much.
Excuse me what is dirty here? They made power efficiency chip, then sell their chip to other hardware manufacturers. So laptop-produced company already knew how much TDP this chip can consume, they could market in whatever way they want to sell their laptop. And you wanna tell me what the heck Nvidia cheated or lied you?
Tbh I take a totally different approach to reviewing laptops, but I get a LOT of inspiration for my channel form Jarrod. Unbiased clean info as always sir
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional Screen Size 17.3 or 18 Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9 ~Data Science and AI graphics ~Computer modelling and networking ~Virtualization Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI????
I really love these power scaling tests you do. They allow us to get a very good idea about the performance of whatever laptop we might want to buy any uncover oddities like the one shown here. Thank you!
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional Screen Size 17.3 or 18 Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9 ~Data Science and AI graphics ~Computer modelling and networking ~Virtualization Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI????
Thanks for the valuable investigation. Very informative and useful to help people make an informed purchasing decision. It also confirms my decision to skip anything below 4080 for this gen.
@@darrell9616 but i think those cyberpowerPc laptops are somehow fairly priced. rtx 4080, i9-13900hx, 32gb ram, 1tb ssd is going for around 2,300. it ain't cheap but it's better than the rest. i just couldn't find much reviews about it on youtube.
@@ttkttk7463 You're right. That's the best value going right now for a 40 series machine. I can't find any either, and support from these smaller companies is always a concern. It's great to have options.
That's really groundbreaking! They're only allowing higher TGPs in some particular gpu workloads to avoid lawsuits. They only want their 4080-90 series to reach the max performance limits!
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional Screen Size 17.3 or 18 Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9 ~Data Science and AI graphics ~Computer modelling and networking ~Virtualization Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI????
Give this man an award, equal to or greater then that of investigative journalism. He is the only laptop reviewer who appears to bring things like this to buyer/consumer attention. Jarrod have my respect all the way.
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional Screen Size 17.3 or 18 Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9 ~Data Science and AI graphics ~Computer modelling and networking ~Virtualization Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI????
Thanks for your another great coverage Jarrod. Definitely Nvidia is forcing their enthusiastic laptop gamers to pay a shitload of money for 4080 or higher. I'd been considering to buy another gaming laptop this year to replace my old Alienware m15 having 1070 max-q inside, but after watching your clips on laptop 40 series I changed my mind to have a desktop instead. They just don't deserve... Shame on you Nvidia.
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional Screen Size 17.3 or 18 Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9 ~Data Science and AI graphics ~Computer modelling and networking ~Virtualization Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI????
It's strange but I think those higher power limits will serve you best with a slight overclock, for example on my legion 5 with the 115W RTX 2060 refresh, going full throttle at 115W gets me nothing other than extra heat, the FPS is the same as running in 80W mode, but if I just add a 115mhz OC to the core then my FPS jumps up by 10-15 FPS, putting it on the same level as a stock desktop 2060, doing that same OC in 80W mode gets me nothing, maybe 3 FPS at best
If you watched the video, you would know that the problem is the voltage limit and not the power limit. My 4060 hits the voltage limit long before the power limit or thermal limit, in a thin and light (!!). These cards are already clocked pretty high so undervolting doesn't do much since it's not thermally limited. Max I've gone is +250 core and +1250 memory. In power virus benchmarks like furmark, it does reach power limit before the voltage limit. But not a single game has done that for me.
They aren't hitting power limits though so that's not the issue. What you'd want to do overclock. Run the gpu at the absolute max +core offset it can handle at the voltage. To use this extra power budget.
Lol ppl here really forgot to use their brains. If you undervolt, you can reach higher clock speeds at the same voltage. Which means more performance. I know you think undervolting means less power consumption, but that's not entirely true. At a given state, if you only lower voltage, power consumption will go down, sure. But at a given state, if you only increase frequency, power consumption will increase. So by undervolting, at that max voltage level Nvidia is holding ppl to, you can have higher clocks and therefore higher power consumption. So OP is right and y'all need to think before commenting
@@tarfeef_4268 Undervolting is holding a certain frequency by giving the core less power for the price of stability. If you can max out at 1volt for 1ghz you can set to reach 1ghz at 800mvs but you increase instability. How stable you can get depends on chip quality, but you will get lower power consumption for same performance. themselves
Maybe that's why 4070 and 3070 looks so similar, the 4070 is running at 100w while the 3070 is closer to 140w, probably a 140w 4070 (if this thing got fixed somehow) would have that improvement that we would aspect.
That was known for quite some time now, but no one has done a proper job testing it and putting numbers next to it. Great job. That being said, I am pretty sure Nvidia just (mis)used this limiter to restrict performance some more when they found out that they are still too strong even after castrating those dies.
Really curious to how well they would do with MSI afterburner tuning, undervolting and overclocking may actually allow it to make the most of that wattage. Just food for thought.
Wow, seriously you deserve wayy more clicks. This is important stuff and we all thank you for your very hard work! Excellent video, as always! Nvidia has some explaining to do, even though I doubt they will.
10 mins ago I was thinking it's worth paying an extra for 140w 4070 :-D Now it's between slim 4070 100-120w and 4080 (170w), although those laptops are noticeably bigger and cost a kidney. I wonder which is better fps for buck 4070 (low wattage) compared to 4080 (full power). Thanks for the awesome reviews!
Jarrod, can you tell us more about cooling solution here ? Because as far i can tell, RTX 4070 and below will stop improving at 100W, so they will run cooler in max powered chassis. Is the lower temperature and build quality worth the price ? Most temp chart see these cards running at around 60 -80 and CPU not more than 90, which are extremely nice for longevity.
@@JarrodsTech It would be really nice if you could just post a temp average for this generation at max load, because for folks like me who lived under tropical sun, that would be a world of different. Temp for charts usually i have to + 3 - 5 for my place.
Well, if the laptop is properly configured to run the GPU at 140 W sustained (like in that Haven? benchmark) then it will surely be cooler and/or quieter at 100W. So that might be a reason to get a higher tier laptop, even if the 140W is kind of useless to you (at least in today's games)
Thank you so much Jarrod for this information! Best laptop reviews for sure! Could you also test the performance difference on video editing tasks like Davinci Resolve? Appreciate your work!
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional Screen Size 17.3 or 18 Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9 ~Data Science and AI graphics ~Computer modelling and networking ~Virtualization Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI?????
@@niebuhr6197 It did for me, so I don't know what you're on about... Stop gatekeeping information about computers, not everyone watches or reads about these things 24/7, most people only game casually and actually have a job to be busy with unlike you.
It's quite ridiculous that every alternate generation nvidia becomes super greedy and anti consumer, get roughed up in the market and respond well with the next generation. At this rate might as well just wait and see what they do for 5000 series. AMD not taking advantage of this gap is equally disgusting
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional Screen Size 17.3 or 18 Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9 ~Data Science and AI graphics ~Computer modelling and networking ~Virtualization Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI????
I th8nk the benefits of the 4070 are in thin and light laptops, a lkwer wattage 4070 can provide great perofrmance in a 17mm thin chasis. The book 3 ultra, yoga 9i pro, asus zenbook 14 pro/16x for 2023 ar ethe only laptops I'd consider with a 4070 series gpu.
this is a kind of techtuber that know their stuff and inform it to viewer, useful and ground breaking information and not just promoting their promotion brand while giving not so useful information. Good job JarrodsTech
Nvidia for sure did this to block laptop companies from making a lower tier card run faster than a high tier one, like what lenovo was doing during the 30 serie laptops. Now if you want a faster gpu you have to buy the next tier up instead of a lower end card running at higher wattage than the higher end card.
Here in the EU there might be a case for sewing on grounds of “abuse of dominant market position”. As DG COMP has done in the past with Microsoft, Apple and Google. Although give their limited capacity to prosecute this might be too small a fish.
you might be able to ignore the voltage by using msi afterburner curve editor. you will get less clock speed tho but you might be able to get more wattage instead… Idk how each will perform so you have to test it out.Try setting the voltage to 0.9.Make sure to tick constant voltage in msi afterbruner.
Great video but disappointing to see no focus on whether or not a manual core overclock or full voltage/frequency curve sees significant performance uplift or a higher sustained power draw in gaming loads. Being limited by VREL means there's power available but the voltage itself, or rather the lack thereof, will not allow for *gpu boost* to go any higher within it's default boost range. That doesn't mean manual tweaking isn't viable. TSMCs new node is MILES more efficient than Samsung's as well and the fact Nvidia was so confident in that they just artificially limited the available voltage to reach their minimum/expected generational uplift or target performance means there should be massive overclocking headroom. What's the minimum voltage required on these laptops to sustain stock boost? It's probably much MUCH lower than the VREL point. How much can you push the final voltage point in OC? I wish you'd considered going into this as it's the endpoint of this question/revelation that increasing power brings no improvement.
I think that Nvidia and the manufacturers don't want to see more laptops on the market with for example a 3060/3070 beating the 3070/3080 because of the higher power of the 3060/3070 in these cases.
Well most laptop brands are still using last-gen cooling designs and power inefficient Intel H/HX CPUs in 15.5-18 inch SKUs. If they taken their time and prepared more 15.6-18" models with vapor chambers in time for Zen3+/Zen4 Ryzen supply to catch up then we would have *A LOT* more designs with 8-16 "P-core" CPUs running at full tilt with dGPUs dynamic boosting 14-33% higher to 185-200W TGPs instead of the same 150-175W limits. Just look at the 25-39% jump in TGP wattage in 14inchers from 75-100W last gen to 95-125W this gen. 🤯
Great confirmation in actual games of good old leaks, that said AD107-106 is not scaling past ~105W. Now waiting to see if desktop cards with these chips (4060 and 4060Ti) have this same problem.
Linus tested boosting the 4090 to use over 600W, and the performance was barely improved even with voltage regulation disabled. I think this might be an architecture limitation.
Wow this was a really interesting find, Jarrod! I wonder if this will blow up and force Nvidia to unlock the power that people thought they were paying for.
i think LTT make video about rtx 4090 1000watts test today that conclude the same result as this one. They got same avarage fps using asus rog 4090, with 80 watt different(360watt vs 440watt).
I'm glad I got a RTX 4080 laptop (ASUS Strix Scar G18), as that's the only RTX 40 series GPU alongside the RTX 4090 that I think are worth upgrading to if you're a few generations behind - I was upgrading from a GTX 1050Ti, so safe to say, the difference is huge.
Asus definitely has the best deals in today's market. But they have a bothersome issue; coil whine. I want to buy a scar g16 but issue is pushing me back; closest option is from MSI and it has a design that stuck in 2000's. With a price tag almost doubles the g16.
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional Screen Size 17.3 or 18 Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9 ~Data Science and AI graphics ~Computer modelling and networking ~Virtualization Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI????
Thanks 👍 I noticed this a long time ago, even when I had an Alienware R4 1080 180W Tdp 70-180W drops sharply. On RTX 2070, the difference is minimal, mostly 60-90W RTX Asus Tuf A15 2023 RTX 4060 140W up zero
But maybe in future some new versions of drivers will give full watt performance, i think about it bcs i want buy new gigabyte G5 on 4060, and there is tdp like 75w. If drivers after a half year or one year will fix that so maybe 75w will be real bottleneck
75W is more than enough for this laptop as its cooling system is specifically designed for 75W, allowing it to remain quite compact in size. At the same time, judging by the tests, when operating at 75 W there is no significant limitation in performance. In my opinion, this is the ideal solution for the Gigabyte G5 laptop.
Thanks Jarrod, it's unbelievable the huge work testing this, every game, at ALMOST EVERY WATTAGE, in 10W increments?!?! YOU'RE THE REAL MVP. For real, thanks.
Great video! Great work! 💯 Maybe this is the first time I see a review testing the full TDP range. Love to see a similar graph to the one at 6:10 but with the score scaled by watt, something like Scores/watt vs watts, in an updated version of this video. If you can also include the laptop price range for each GPU TDP, I feel it could be one of the best buyer guides. (It's just my thought when seeing this video, I am not sure if it possible to include the price or not) Thanks!
For lighter laptops, the RTX 4050/4060/4070 still make sense. And whereas it seems that the 4070 is only a minor improvement over the 4060, there seems to be a huge difference in efficiency. 60fps in 1440p seems to require only roughly 57W for the RTX 4070 (min 4:02), but 85W for the RTX 4060 (min 3:28): a 50% increase (= 33% less efficient)! The RTX 4080/4090 are more efficient still, but their capabilities and minimum power consumption do not make them viable candidates for light laptops that are meant to last on the battery, especially if you intend to cap power consumption to
Jarrod, thank you very much for this video. I am currently considering buying a new laptop and choosing the gpu is a major headache, since 4080/4090 a just unreachable and after seeing your video I can just pick a thin and light 4070 laptop with no doubt. Good job as always!
@@jackali5014 3070ti laptops are not cheap too, i have considered them too. It’s just if I buy a new laptop, I want it to be latest model, and not buy already outdated hardware. It is what it is 🤷🏻♂️
I'm honestly wondering what this will means for AMD equivalent laptops at the mid-range when they do come out. The efficiency of these chips is awesome, but I can't brush off that this feels like it's an Advantage Edition situation brewing in the background.
I'm guessing this was their solution for all the overheating problems earlier. Faced with a massively expensive recall, they chose to secretly limit them. Well, the phone makers fod and do thos too, for the same reason.
Definitely smells of artificial product segmentation. Thank you, Jarrod, for all of the effort you put into these excellent videos. I'm seriously considering getting a new laptop this year, so I'm happy to save a buck for a negligible performance penalty.
I've the new 4070 legion 7i pro 140watt bought in march. The best part is low GPU and cpu temp and wattage with 80+ FPS on all ultra including ray tracing in some games with low fan decibel noise and frame generation supported games are basically black magic voodoo. They add 20-40 frames to games giving smoother gameplay for supported games. So no regrets there.
Yes, this is the other side of the coin. These GPUs are quite efficient. If you UV+OC on a 4070, I bet my ass it will smoke a 3070ti. Good performance, low noise, low heat. It is by all means disappointing that they can't put out well scaled performance at higher W, but something for something I guess.
Thank you for this video breakdown! Im glad I purchased the Legion 7i RTX 4080 32GB 2TB option because i felt like anything lower would be a joke buying as far as performance. You also posed a question that I also had in my mind as well that being is Nvidia gonna release a RTX 4070 TI because I honestly feel like thats what they are gonna do which would still make me glad I went with the 4080 option. Keep the videos running bro your the best at what you do!
@@lil_brumski CZcams Revanced (android) or 'Return dislike button' extension on Windows. i dont recommend CZcams Revanced tho, there are a lot of scam websites which install virus in it
Well, the point is good of course. But you can buy for example 3070 and keep it on 90W, so this way there is never issue with overheating and fried GPU, so you dont worry about gpu, that it will break in 5 years or so.
Jarrod, your tested values never match the consumer values. Ours is always about 5-10% lower performance than yours. You confirmed in a previous video that you don't do anything extra to make the laptop perform better so it's safe to assume that these companies send you a tuned up/better version of the laptops. These videos of yours are only misleading an average buyer. I bought a ROG strix g15 AE after watching your video. I checked with other buyers and our numbers were similar but always lower than your values. If I had relied on your videos I would have returned it immediately seeing 10% less performance. I encourage you to walk into a store, pick up a laptop that any other buyer could and then test it. Until then, these figures are false and inflated.
This happened with my Helios 300 2019 as well. Games would almost always crash with turbo mode on and some other people with the same laptop reported similar incidents. So basically acer was being too optimistic with their CPU undervolt and GPU overclock in turbo mode which wasn’t stable on every laptop. But acer had cherry-picked the laptop they sent to jarrod and other reviewers as none of them had this issue. This is what brands do and if jarrod had to buy every laptop he reviews, he’d go broke. So I take it as a thumb rule to expect 5% less performance on avg compared to reviews.
@@ass5kickin That is a good point. Perhaps Jarrod can himself deflate the values and present them. These videos are fun and I certainly don't want them to stop. We know to consider less performance than what he gets, but a first time buyer wouldn't and might take the wrong decision.
@@adityapatil1084 true, I agree with your point but I don’t think he should deflate that values in his review because it’s silicon lottery. Somebody with the same laptop may get even better performance than him. So, it won’t make sense for him to showcase worse values than he is getting. It’s just better if we as viewers understand that silicon in every device won’t be the same and we have to consider plus or minus 5% performance from what we see in reviews.
@Aditya Patil Jarrod uses many custom 'runs' for his benchmarks, so you can't compare 1:1 with built-in benchmarks or what you see in game. That is where the 5-10% is likely coming from, and 5-10% isn't really that meaningful to begin with. e.g. many reviewers consider 5% essentially margin of error. Team JT performs various due diligence practices to make sure their data is accurate and precise. Jarrod should not deflate the accurate data he generated during testing. Instead, as a viewer you should interpret his data as a way to discriminate between models or between components, not as exact fps numbers you will see. Lastly, he does not receive cherry-picked laptops from the vendors. They are just rando units that get passed around to reviewers, and sometimes they even have functional issues that need to be resolved. Hopefully that clears some things up 👍
Forgot to mention in the video, I also tried Cyberpunk with ray tracing on the 4060 to see if maybe using the RT cores would bypass the limit, but it was no different.
i think this policy isn't legal, is computer obsolescence. the same think do apple with cpu and battery on iphone. (in Frence is a crime)
Market Share Ready® for AMD Radeon nom nom 🐊😋
On desktop is actually simpler games that consume more because they have an higher GPU occupancy, ray tracing could actually be counter productive as it cause lower occupancy due to its inherent incoherent instructions and memory access pattern. DLSS will lower the resolution which may hit occupancy too, maybe DLAA would push more
@Jarrod's Tech can you please make a review on the Predator Helios neo & Helios 16 series (2023)
Hey Jarrod. Is this hard voltage lock on desktop as well? Also what's your theory on this?
I'm thinking board partners were kind of in the dark or they would not have designed things around higher TDP's and the extra money that entails.🤔
It's the scam of the decade from nvidia selling cards claiming its "140w" when in reality barely reaches 100w smh . Great video Jarrod
it's even weirder considering people dont buy laptop for wattage, they just want frames!
On one hand, it's good because these GPUs can achieve the same performance without sucking down as much power as Ampere. On the other hand, the scaling is literal garbage once you hit 90 watts on these, yet they'll still be sold under the pretense of being more powerful than they are with the voltage limit they have.
Thin and lights running on low power definitely have an edge with these cards inside. 😅
I dunno how Nvidia hasn't been sued with false advertising yet.
@@thetrustysidekick3013 because they're a big corporation and they're gonna win the lawsuit regardless. Just how the world works now
Please let's take a minute to appreciate what Jarrod is doing for us here, I salute you man. I don't know without you how we would know these dirty quirks by Nvidia. Thank you so much.
very much agreed
Agreed completely. This is extremely helpful to the public.
I cannot give your comment a whole bunch of likes, but i can give you these 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
What's with the take a minute bs. I'm taking 8minutes to watch it already.
Excuse me what is dirty here? They made power efficiency chip, then sell their chip to other hardware manufacturers. So laptop-produced company already knew how much TDP this chip can consume, they could market in whatever way they want to sell their laptop. And you wanna tell me what the heck Nvidia cheated or lied you?
So basically Nvidia has deliberately hindered performance so as to not give any extra performance than they decide the consumer should get?
Yes
Yes
Yes
seems about right!
Yes, to make you pay more on laptops that offer the second last digits, 8 and 9.
No one does a better job than you! Thank you for putting in the work you do!
Double Plus Good!
Laptop god
Yuppp!! Fr!!
Tbh I take a totally different approach to reviewing laptops, but I get a LOT of inspiration for my channel form Jarrod.
Unbiased clean info as always sir
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional
Screen Size 17.3 or 18
Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9
~Data Science and AI graphics
~Computer modelling and networking
~Virtualization
Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI????
I really love these power scaling tests you do. They allow us to get a very good idea about the performance of whatever laptop we might want to buy any uncover oddities like the one shown here.
Thank you!
big thanks for the power scaling charts
I call shame on Nvidia.
This is amazing information Jarrod❤
finally first on reply xD is this count ?
Wow 😒😮😳
Nshitia has clearly made 4050 appear as the 4060 and forced higher power limits on it. If this is what next gen is supposed to be, I can do better.
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional
Screen Size 17.3 or 18
Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9
~Data Science and AI graphics
~Computer modelling and networking
~Virtualization
Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI????
@@Samdevay Do you need more than 8GB of VRAM? If so you're gonna need something with an RTX 3080TI, 4080, or 4090 Mobile.
Thanks for the valuable investigation. Very informative and useful to help people make an informed purchasing decision. It also confirms my decision to skip anything below 4080 for this gen.
i believe that's what Nvidia wants exactly. They want everyone to buy the more expensive laptops.
@@ttkttk7463 No question. It's terrible TBH. I have my eye on 3080 and AMD 6850M XT right now due to the pricing issues of 4080 machines.
@@darrell9616 Just wait until christmas time. Thats when the specials come out.
@@darrell9616 but i think those cyberpowerPc laptops are somehow fairly priced. rtx 4080, i9-13900hx, 32gb ram, 1tb ssd is going for around 2,300. it ain't cheap but it's better than the rest. i just couldn't find much reviews about it on youtube.
@@ttkttk7463 You're right. That's the best value going right now for a 40 series machine. I can't find any either, and support from these smaller companies is always a concern.
It's great to have options.
That's really groundbreaking! They're only allowing higher TGPs in some particular gpu workloads to avoid lawsuits. They only want their 4080-90 series to reach the max performance limits!
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional
Screen Size 17.3 or 18
Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9
~Data Science and AI graphics
~Computer modelling and networking
~Virtualization
Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI????
@@Samdevay buy a 3070ti max power.
Thanks for the support! sorry for the massive delay, CZcams isn't the best at notifying for these!
@@Samdevaybuy an alienware on the second hand markets, these laptops have good cooling system.
ScamVidia won't like this video.
cry
@@il_principeu seem to be are crying
@@il_principebro crying 😂
Bro really said "🥺:cry"@@il_principe
Give this man an award, equal to or greater then that of investigative journalism. He is the only laptop reviewer who appears to bring things like this to buyer/consumer attention. Jarrod have my respect all the way.
He talks like NPC doesn't bother u?
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional
Screen Size 17.3 or 18
Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9
~Data Science and AI graphics
~Computer modelling and networking
~Virtualization
Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI????
@@kaywonderer who cares however he talks, as long as the information is real and accurate
Lol it only bothers You bud @@kaywonderer
@@kaywonderershut up NPC
I wish you would make a video nvidia 3000 series vs 4000 series with the same type of graphs (per watt performence and per dollar performance) 😊
Thanks for your another great coverage Jarrod. Definitely Nvidia is forcing their enthusiastic laptop gamers to pay a shitload of money for 4080 or higher. I'd been considering to buy another gaming laptop this year to replace my old Alienware m15 having 1070 max-q inside, but after watching your clips on laptop 40 series I changed my mind to have a desktop instead. They just don't deserve... Shame on you Nvidia.
i think u can also buy amd ones or prev gen laptops which are on sale
For laptops I'd honestly just look at either AMD or intel this generation if you want to buy new.
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional
Screen Size 17.3 or 18
Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9
~Data Science and AI graphics
~Computer modelling and networking
~Virtualization
Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI????
Shame nvidia and after that u r going to shop and buy their desktop gpu lol
It's strange but I think those higher power limits will serve you best with a slight overclock, for example on my legion 5 with the 115W RTX 2060 refresh, going full throttle at 115W gets me nothing other than extra heat, the FPS is the same as running in 80W mode, but if I just add a 115mhz OC to the core then my FPS jumps up by 10-15 FPS, putting it on the same level as a stock desktop 2060, doing that same OC in 80W mode gets me nothing, maybe 3 FPS at best
Hi Jarrod. So far you had the clearest and most data driven tech reviewer i ever watched. You deserve more than thousands of subscribers!
I wonder if undervolting them would let them hit power limits later and eke out some extra performance.
If you watched the video, you would know that the problem is the voltage limit and not the power limit.
My 4060 hits the voltage limit long before the power limit or thermal limit, in a thin and light (!!). These cards are already clocked pretty high so undervolting doesn't do much since it's not thermally limited. Max I've gone is +250 core and +1250 memory.
In power virus benchmarks like furmark, it does reach power limit before the voltage limit. But not a single game has done that for me.
They aren't hitting power limits though so that's not the issue.
What you'd want to do overclock. Run the gpu at the absolute max +core offset it can handle at the voltage. To use this extra power budget.
@@prajaybasu My mistake. I guess undervolting would let you use more of the power or something. It's confusing a bit.
Lol ppl here really forgot to use their brains.
If you undervolt, you can reach higher clock speeds at the same voltage. Which means more performance.
I know you think undervolting means less power consumption, but that's not entirely true. At a given state, if you only lower voltage, power consumption will go down, sure. But at a given state, if you only increase frequency, power consumption will increase.
So by undervolting, at that max voltage level Nvidia is holding ppl to, you can have higher clocks and therefore higher power consumption.
So OP is right and y'all need to think before commenting
@@tarfeef_4268 Undervolting is holding a certain frequency by giving the core less power for the price of stability. If you can max out at 1volt for 1ghz you can set to reach 1ghz at 800mvs but you increase instability. How stable you can get depends on chip quality, but you will get lower power consumption for same performance.
themselves
Me and my wallet are thanking you Jarrod! Well explained!
145W 3070 Mobile or RX 6800S/6700S laptops deals here I coooooome!!!! 😁
@@handlemonium I hope to get a 3070 TI at 140ish watts. I don't care about dlss at all.
Please do a Lenovo legion Pro 5/5i 4060 vs Legion 5 Pro 3060 gaming comparison
Maybe that's why 4070 and 3070 looks so similar, the 4070 is running at 100w while the 3070 is closer to 140w, probably a 140w 4070 (if this thing got fixed somehow) would have that improvement that we would aspect.
That was known for quite some time now, but no one has done a proper job testing it and putting numbers next to it. Great job.
That being said, I am pretty sure Nvidia just (mis)used this limiter to restrict performance some more when they found out that they are still too strong even after castrating those dies.
why does the 4070 mobile have less vram than the desktops 12gb
Looks like the rtx 3060 mobile with 6gb and the desktop with 12gb
Its a shame they didnt have the same amount of vram
To force the user to upgrade more often
Even 12GB of Vram on the Desktop part is too low it should've came with 16gb minimum
And probably because increasing power consumption & motherboard space too
@@qusaifarid513 you are crazy
It's incredibly amazing that you point this out, Jarrod. You honestly do the most and I'm here for it! ♥️
Really curious to how well they would do with MSI afterburner tuning, undervolting and overclocking may actually allow it to make the most of that wattage. Just food for thought.
Wow, seriously you deserve wayy more clicks. This is important stuff and we all thank you for your very hard work! Excellent video, as always! Nvidia has some explaining to do, even though I doubt they will.
10 mins ago I was thinking it's worth paying an extra for 140w 4070 :-D Now it's between slim 4070 100-120w and 4080 (170w), although those laptops are noticeably bigger and cost a kidney. I wonder which is better fps for buck 4070 (low wattage) compared to 4080 (full power). Thanks for the awesome reviews!
Why would you want 4070 when it's slower than 3070 mobile in most games
I swear, even if not being a laptop user, Jarrods analysis always hit home. Such a great work.
A quick thought on this; does the voltage limit mean that undervolting the GPU might actually unlock more performance?
Jarrod, can you tell us more about cooling solution here ? Because as far i can tell, RTX 4070 and below will stop improving at 100W, so they will run cooler in max powered chassis. Is the lower temperature and build quality worth the price ? Most temp chart see these cards running at around 60 -80 and CPU not more than 90, which are extremely nice for longevity.
I didn't actually monitor the temperatures at different levels here, but below 100w I'd assume they're cooler
@@JarrodsTech It would be really nice if you could just post a temp average for this generation at max load, because for folks like me who lived under tropical sun, that would be a world of different. Temp for charts usually i have to + 3 - 5 for my place.
Well, if the laptop is properly configured to run the GPU at 140 W sustained (like in that Haven? benchmark) then it will surely be cooler and/or quieter at 100W. So that might be a reason to get a higher tier laptop, even if the 140W is kind of useless to you (at least in today's games)
@@hoanghanguyenvinh8476 j
Thank you so much Jarrod for this information! Best laptop reviews for sure!
Could you also test the performance difference on video editing tasks like Davinci Resolve?
Appreciate your work!
this
Jarrod just saved a lot of people hundreds of dollars.
*Thousands*
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional
Screen Size 17.3 or 18
Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9
~Data Science and AI graphics
~Computer modelling and networking
~Virtualization
Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI?????
Thank you jarrod for exposing nvidia
This has been known for a couple of months, Jarrod dint expose anything.
@@niebuhr6197 It did for me, so I don't know what you're on about... Stop gatekeeping information about computers, not everyone watches or reads about these things 24/7, most people only game casually and actually have a job to be busy with unlike you.
That chart comparison blew my mind right away from the abyss. Am sticking to my 30 series.
X14 aw 3060 here. Still happy with it.
It's quite ridiculous that every alternate generation nvidia becomes super greedy and anti consumer, get roughed up in the market and respond well with the next generation. At this rate might as well just wait and see what they do for 5000 series.
AMD not taking advantage of this gap is equally disgusting
what is intel, chopped liver? the arc cards are good.
AMD is 100% taking advantage of this gap, by joining in. They are making their money.
@@muizzsiddique Market Share Ready® for AMD Radeon nom nom 🐊😋
Sorry but AMD has noting that compete with RTX 4070 at 80w. THeir GPU don't scale that very well at extreme lower power
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional
Screen Size 17.3 or 18
Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9
~Data Science and AI graphics
~Computer modelling and networking
~Virtualization
Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI????
I th8nk the benefits of the 4070 are in thin and light laptops, a lkwer wattage 4070 can provide great perofrmance in a 17mm thin chasis. The book 3 ultra, yoga 9i pro, asus zenbook 14 pro/16x for 2023 ar ethe only laptops I'd consider with a 4070 series gpu.
This is top tier content, thanks for all the effort and time put into this investigations and benchmarks
I don't know what you talking about there is clearly 1 frame differences that makes all games 1% more playable 🤓🤓
Lol
Is there a way to bypass the limits
6-8gb vram gpu not gonna last long.
Well upscaled 900p on a 12-14.5" screen looks fine and upscaled 1080p is serviceable on 15.6-18" displays.
this is a kind of techtuber that know their stuff and inform it to viewer, useful and ground breaking information and not just promoting their promotion brand while giving not so useful information. Good job JarrodsTech
hey thanks
Pretty solid data for a class action lawyer to pounce on. The TI theory is plausible.
Awesome analysis and explanation!
Nvidia for sure did this to block laptop companies from making a lower tier card run faster than a high tier one, like what lenovo was doing during the 30 serie laptops. Now if you want a faster gpu you have to buy the next tier up instead of a lower end card running at higher wattage than the higher end card.
yes unfortunately, I've seen reviews where legion rtx 3060 beat notebook with rtx 3070
Looks like Nvidia fumbled the bag here
Does this hidden voltage wall warrant a class action lawsuit? 🙃
Here in the EU there might be a case for sewing on grounds of “abuse of dominant market position”. As DG COMP has done in the past with Microsoft, Apple and Google. Although give their limited capacity to prosecute this might be too small a fish.
you might be able to ignore the voltage by using msi afterburner curve editor. you will get less clock speed tho but you might be able to get more wattage instead… Idk how each will perform so you have to test it out.Try setting the voltage to 0.9.Make sure to tick constant voltage in msi afterbruner.
Great video but disappointing to see no focus on whether or not a manual core overclock or full voltage/frequency curve sees significant performance uplift or a higher sustained power draw in gaming loads. Being limited by VREL means there's power available but the voltage itself, or rather the lack thereof, will not allow for *gpu boost* to go any higher within it's default boost range. That doesn't mean manual tweaking isn't viable. TSMCs new node is MILES more efficient than Samsung's as well and the fact Nvidia was so confident in that they just artificially limited the available voltage to reach their minimum/expected generational uplift or target performance means there should be massive overclocking headroom. What's the minimum voltage required on these laptops to sustain stock boost? It's probably much MUCH lower than the VREL point. How much can you push the final voltage point in OC? I wish you'd considered going into this as it's the endpoint of this question/revelation that increasing power brings no improvement.
You sounds like an nvidia engineer
I think that Nvidia and the manufacturers don't want to see more laptops on the market with for example a 3060/3070 beating the 3070/3080 because of the higher power of the 3060/3070 in these cases.
Well most laptop brands are still using last-gen cooling designs and power inefficient Intel H/HX CPUs in 15.5-18 inch SKUs.
If they taken their time and prepared more 15.6-18" models with vapor chambers in time for Zen3+/Zen4 Ryzen supply to catch up then we would have *A LOT* more designs with 8-16 "P-core" CPUs running at full tilt with dGPUs dynamic boosting 14-33% higher to 185-200W TGPs instead of the same 150-175W limits.
Just look at the 25-39% jump in TGP wattage in 14inchers from 75-100W last gen to 95-125W this gen. 🤯
Jarrod you are a life saver, I initially wanted to get an M16 with 4060/4070, but after this, I'm going for last year's RTX 3070ti.
I went with 3070ti as well. WORKS like a beast
What laptops are you using for that GPU?
Worth buying a lenovo legion 5 pro ryzen 7 7745hx rtx 4060??
Great confirmation in actual games of good old leaks, that said AD107-106 is not scaling past ~105W. Now waiting to see if desktop cards with these chips (4060 and 4060Ti) have this same problem.
Linus tested boosting the 4090 to use over 600W, and the performance was barely improved even with voltage regulation disabled. I think this might be an architecture limitation.
Desktop chips wont have low voltage limits, they would be able to push 1.1v and 3ghz...
Quite interesting.. so now the
Wow this was a really interesting find, Jarrod! I wonder if this will blow up and force Nvidia to unlock the power that people thought they were paying for.
Market Share Ready® for AMD Radeon nom nom 🐊😋
i got lenovo ideapad gaming 4050 85w and so happy to see this, and very happy with the dlss 3 and frame generation
Nvidia never fails to dissapoint.
You're the best Jarrod. Many thanks from Scotland.
Shatland
damn, this kind of extensive testing is what I'd hoped LTT would be doing
Labs isn't fully set up yet although they will probably focus more on PCs than laptops anyways
i think LTT make video about rtx 4090 1000watts test today that conclude the same result as this one. They got same avarage fps using asus rog 4090, with 80 watt different(360watt vs 440watt).
What a banger! Also waiting for your 2023 G14 review.
I'm glad I got a RTX 4080 laptop (ASUS Strix Scar G18), as that's the only RTX 40 series GPU alongside the RTX 4090 that I think are worth upgrading to if you're a few generations behind - I was upgrading from a GTX 1050Ti, so safe to say, the difference is huge.
But the cost difference is huge... even against a 4070-equipped laptop.
nVidia is just taking your money.
if y ou come from gtx 1050ti you will notice diferencie even whit a 3070 laptop or just get a 90w 4060 latpop if you want more portability
Asus definitely has the best deals in today's market.
But they have a bothersome issue; coil whine. I want to buy a scar g16 but issue is pushing me back; closest option is from MSI and it has a design that stuck in 2000's. With a price tag almost doubles the g16.
You must feel the burn of seeing $999 laptops with 4060 hanging alongside your bad investment
@@eliubfj Or the 3060 still cost $999.
well...hope nvidia can come out with a patch tat solves this voltage limiting
Can it be fixed with an patch or is it an hardware problem?
Thank you very much for letting us know these findings !
This acutally a very important infromation. Thank you for that
The data from these tests is amazing, thanks for all the work you do! It's very sad that the RTX 4050 - 4070s perform this way.
WHat's best laptop around 2500USD for working professional
Screen Size 17.3 or 18
Need performance near-about 3070TI and processor: i7-i9
~Data Science and AI graphics
~Computer modelling and networking
~Virtualization
Should I buy this gen or 12gen with 3070TI????
Thanks 👍
I noticed this a long time ago, even when I had an Alienware R4 1080 180W Tdp 70-180W drops sharply. On RTX 2070, the difference is minimal, mostly 60-90W RTX Asus Tuf A15 2023 RTX 4060 140W up zero
Nvidia has done great convincing you to strip your wallet on more costly laptops and GPUs.
But maybe in future some new versions of drivers will give full watt performance, i think about it bcs i want buy new gigabyte G5 on 4060, and there is tdp like 75w. If drivers after a half year or one year will fix that so maybe 75w will be real bottleneck
75W is more than enough for this laptop as its cooling system is specifically designed for 75W, allowing it to remain quite compact in size. At the same time, judging by the tests, when operating at 75 W there is no significant limitation in performance. In my opinion, this is the ideal solution for the Gigabyte G5 laptop.
Thanks Jarrod, it's unbelievable the huge work testing this, every game, at ALMOST EVERY WATTAGE, in 10W increments?!?! YOU'RE THE REAL MVP. For real, thanks.
Great video! Great work! 💯
Maybe this is the first time I see a review testing the full TDP range.
Love to see a similar graph to the one at 6:10 but with the score scaled by watt, something like Scores/watt vs watts, in an updated version of this video.
If you can also include the laptop price range for each GPU TDP, I feel it could be one of the best buyer guides.
(It's just my thought when seeing this video, I am not sure if it possible to include the price or not)
Thanks!
Era of thin gaming laptops 😎 Praise zephyrus lineup 🥳
Watching this from my 2022 zep g15
For lighter laptops, the RTX 4050/4060/4070 still make sense. And whereas it seems that the 4070 is only a minor improvement over the 4060, there seems to be a huge difference in efficiency. 60fps in 1440p seems to require only roughly 57W for the RTX 4070 (min 4:02), but 85W for the RTX 4060 (min 3:28): a 50% increase (= 33% less efficient)! The RTX 4080/4090 are more efficient still, but their capabilities and minimum power consumption do not make them viable candidates for light laptops that are meant to last on the battery, especially if you intend to cap power consumption to
Agreed.
Laptops vs Desktop have two very different uses imo.
The RTX 4070 Laptop is excellent GPU for Mobility and it performs great.
Jarrod, thank you very much for this video. I am currently considering buying a new laptop and choosing the gpu is a major headache, since 4080/4090 a just unreachable and after seeing your video I can just pick a thin and light 4070 laptop with no doubt. Good job as always!
Don't buy 4000 laptops, don't support Nvidia, if you most have one get rtx 3070ti laptop
@@jackali5014 3070ti laptops are not cheap too, i have considered them too. It’s just if I buy a new laptop, I want it to be latest model, and not buy already outdated hardware. It is what it is 🤷🏻♂️
@@n1ce-0 just don't buy a 4070 buy it's a meme gpu
8 gb 4070 is already limited man by its VRAM. You will have to lower settings (low-med) at 1080p in new games.
Can you please make a similar video of these graphic cards tensor core performance for AI/ML tasks
The good thing out of this, is that if you have a cooler that can cool a 140W GPU, it will be very cool and quiet with only 100W needed.
My brain thought Jarrod hated the cards for a while then I realised he was talking about power lol
This is why Jarrod is the best laptop reviewer on CZcams
Really quality info Jared thank you
Jarrod you are a legend! Appreciate and love your work 💙
Awesome work as always. Thanks. Can you please do same test with FG ?
I'm honestly wondering what this will means for AMD equivalent laptops at the mid-range when they do come out. The efficiency of these chips is awesome, but I can't brush off that this feels like it's an Advantage Edition situation brewing in the background.
I'm guessing this was their solution for all the overheating problems earlier. Faced with a massively expensive recall, they chose to secretly limit them. Well, the phone makers fod and do thos too, for the same reason.
Definitely smells of artificial product segmentation. Thank you, Jarrod, for all of the effort you put into these excellent videos. I'm seriously considering getting a new laptop this year, so I'm happy to save a buck for a negligible performance penalty.
I've the new 4070 legion 7i pro 140watt bought in march. The best part is low GPU and cpu temp and wattage with 80+ FPS on all ultra including ray tracing in some games with low fan decibel noise and frame generation supported games are basically black magic voodoo. They add 20-40 frames to games giving smoother gameplay for supported games. So no regrets there.
Yes, this is the other side of the coin. These GPUs are quite efficient. If you UV+OC on a 4070, I bet my ass it will smoke a 3070ti. Good performance, low noise, low heat. It is by all means disappointing that they can't put out well scaled performance at higher W, but something for something I guess.
3:30 showing results of 4060 in QHD instead of FHD is kinda scummy
Wow that is crazy btw thx jarrod for all ur efforts man
Rtx 3060 vs 4060 vs 4050
Nice shirt Jarrod, my first concert was COB lol
🤘
Thank you for this video breakdown! Im glad I purchased the Legion 7i RTX 4080 32GB 2TB option because i felt like anything lower would be a joke buying as far as performance. You also posed a question that I also had in my mind as well that being is Nvidia gonna release a RTX 4070 TI because I honestly feel like thats what they are gonna do which would still make me glad I went with the 4080 option. Keep the videos running bro your the best at what you do!
It almost sounds like nVidia is making the same graphics card but selling them as different SKUs and voltage limits.
I can't imagine the amount of time it took to research all of this. Incredible work sir. Thank you!
Excellent work sir. I was specifically looking for the 4050 as i haven’t tested it much. S+ tier video as always
497 likes vs 3 dislikes
3 dislikes must come from Nvidia or OEM
You can see the dislikes?
@@lil_brumski CZcams Revanced (android) or 'Return dislike button' extension on Windows. i dont recommend CZcams Revanced tho, there are a lot of scam websites which install virus in it
You're a beast dude and deserve every sub, like. And comment
This has grounds for lawsuit. I suggest people also share this info on big channels like Linus etc so everyone sees Nvidias scam.
dang. if only the 4060 in the asus x13 was 90w or 100w tgp.
They better "fix" this, or this is material for a class action. Thanks Jarrod, you're a hero.
according to them nothing is "broken"
Well, the point is good of course. But you can buy for example 3070 and keep it on 90W, so this way there is never issue with overheating and fried GPU, so you dont worry about gpu, that it will break in 5 years or so.
-High Powered- RTX 4050/4060/4070 Laptops Are a Waste
Thank you Jarrod for your valuable insights
So the consensus is to wait until Nvidia gets their power limits and shit together for 40 mobile series GPUs for next years laptops.
Thank you soo much for telling such important information ❤ love your channel brother ❤️
Jarrod, your tested values never match the consumer values. Ours is always about 5-10% lower performance than yours. You confirmed in a previous video that you don't do anything extra to make the laptop perform better so it's safe to assume that these companies send you a tuned up/better version of the laptops.
These videos of yours are only misleading an average buyer. I bought a ROG strix g15 AE after watching your video. I checked with other buyers and our numbers were similar but always lower than your values. If I had relied on your videos I would have returned it immediately seeing 10% less performance.
I encourage you to walk into a store, pick up a laptop that any other buyer could and then test it. Until then, these figures are false and inflated.
Where did you get the idea for all this lmao?
This happened with my Helios 300 2019 as well. Games would almost always crash with turbo mode on and some other people with the same laptop reported similar incidents. So basically acer was being too optimistic with their CPU undervolt and GPU overclock in turbo mode which wasn’t stable on every laptop. But acer had cherry-picked the laptop they sent to jarrod and other reviewers as none of them had this issue. This is what brands do and if jarrod had to buy every laptop he reviews, he’d go broke. So I take it as a thumb rule to expect 5% less performance on avg compared to reviews.
@@ass5kickin That is a good point. Perhaps Jarrod can himself deflate the values and present them. These videos are fun and I certainly don't want them to stop. We know to consider less performance than what he gets, but a first time buyer wouldn't and might take the wrong decision.
@@adityapatil1084 true, I agree with your point but I don’t think he should deflate that values in his review because it’s silicon lottery. Somebody with the same laptop may get even better performance than him. So, it won’t make sense for him to showcase worse values than he is getting. It’s just better if we as viewers understand that silicon in every device won’t be the same and we have to consider plus or minus 5% performance from what we see in reviews.
@Aditya Patil Jarrod uses many custom 'runs' for his benchmarks, so you can't compare 1:1 with built-in benchmarks or what you see in game. That is where the 5-10% is likely coming from, and 5-10% isn't really that meaningful to begin with. e.g. many reviewers consider 5% essentially margin of error.
Team JT performs various due diligence practices to make sure their data is accurate and precise. Jarrod should not deflate the accurate data he generated during testing. Instead, as a viewer you should interpret his data as a way to discriminate between models or between components, not as exact fps numbers you will see.
Lastly, he does not receive cherry-picked laptops from the vendors. They are just rando units that get passed around to reviewers, and sometimes they even have functional issues that need to be resolved.
Hopefully that clears some things up 👍