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The Most Overrated Diesel…12 Valve P-Pump Cummins
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- čas přidán 15. 08. 2024
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The P-Pump 12 Valve 5.9L Cummins is the best light duty diesel ever built, this isn't really debatable. But it's probably the most overrated diesel you can buy today (debatable). It's great for swaps, reliability, simplicity, and zombie apocalypses. But that's really about it. The trucks they came in were/are junk and completely clapped out, and the engine that are still running, leak like a sieve. Regardless of your diesel desires, there are many better options available now that provide much more performance and value. I'll discuss some better options so you don't waste your money. Then I'll waste $10K to build a Compound Turbo 12 Valve anyway.
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00:00 Introduction
00:46 The 6BT wasn't built by Cummins?
01:15 12 Valves are Great
02:40 12 Valves are Overrated
04:03 Build Cost Comparison
08:02 What it truly Costs!
12:31 Teatdown
19:29 Bearing Carnage!
24:49 Cylinder Honing
26:44 O-ringing Head Gasket
Keep up the good work you’re going to blow up at some point soon.
Let's hope so. I'm ready to retire from corporate life 😉 Thanks for the kind words 👍
12 valves help marriages last longer because you can't ever hear your wife while your driving it.
Same with my 7.3L Power Stroke 😂
@@freedomworxyou can put high pressure cross over hose and full fuel line cross over quites them way down
@hankclingingsmith8707 I’ve got all that. I’m assuming you’ve never seen the build videos for my excursion 😉. It’s still loud. I’ve got single shot injectors.
My 6.0 Powerstroke, straight piped, is equally as loud!😂
I'm about 80-85ish % with ya on your chart. However, I feel you're missing a few key elements.
It's too much for me to blabber about in the comments, so I must succeed...😑😆😉
“700hp isn’t streetable with a single”
My dumbass daily driving a big single 900hp duramax can absolutely verify that is true. It’s a rough life
It’ll spool up…tomorrow 😉😂
@@freedomworx🤣🤣💯💯💯Laggy pig .. big sucker single compared to compounds 🤣🤣
@@freedomworx s476 on a CR 5.9 with some big injectors doesnt take too long just a little smokey
Piss of Al Gore and the EPA, you say? Count me in.
"off" 😉
Piss on em lol
30 +years no dowel pin problem, gobs of torque, 20+MPG, and,,,,,,,,,,,,,,NO expensive repairs except 3 gallons of Delo once a year!
If you didn't have the KDP issue, you just got lucky. It's a very common failure.
Kdp, simple fix.
400ft lbs isn't considered a lot of torque especially for a diesel
All depends on what application, cummins were detuned for light truck duty due to transmission limitations.
They didn’t detune them enough obviously. Those transmission would fail if you looked at the the wrong way 😂
I know how your parts got lost in the mail. It's because idaho doesn't exist and so all mail headed there just falls off the side of the earth...cause it's flat. 🧐
😂😂. So basically Montana is the edge of the earth... Got it!
Yes exactly idaho is fake. No one move here its fake and we are 100% full 😂
@corvairwally I would believe you, but I’ve been there several times. I was once on a motorcycle trip, and I was so happy to cross into Idaho and out of Oregon so I could pump my own gas. Those things stick with you 😂
hold on for a minute ... I live at the border of Brit Columbia Canada and Idaho.. nearest Idaho town is Bonners Ferry ... was just there a few days ago !! IDAHO EXISTS. scouts honor it really does.
Don't get me started about Washington. I swear bigfoot has a stash of stolen packages in the Cascades
I notice the 6.4 PSD was not even on your chart 😂
Sucks to. They are the most capable engine as far as power production goes, they just won’t stay together.
The few times I've pulled a 6.4 powerstroke apart theyve been destroyed. Either by carbon buildup or something relating to coolant getting into the oil. Id love new diesels if they were just more reliable.
The 12v was my first experience with a diesel engine in a pickup so it'll always have a sweet spot with me
It’s a great engine. 👍
That tortoise yawning was the slowest, most hilarious thing ever.
Seemed appropriate. 😂
Great video. I thought lost the 7.3 in my 96 F250 and really looked into the numbers to swap to a 5.9. Anyway I sliced it, it felt like a lateral move considering money and power like your chart shows. Sure in the long run it might have been worth it, but after I tore down the 7.3 I found it had cracked injector cups and 5 of the 8 injectors and holes were carboned up from a bad batch of homemade diesel. I cleaned it up, new seals and injectors and a few while I’m here things and it runs great again. Back in the road for under $7,000 which I was good with considering it’s a 28 year old truck with 500,000+ miles
I love those OBS 7.3s 👍
You are doing the rest of the build I wanted to do with my first gen. Good job
Thanks for watching. This thing should rip in my old Squarebody Service Truck 😎
Casual and super entertaining engine build ... good channel to subscribe to ... being a Ram 5.9 owner.
I appreciate the kind words 👍
I have a 12 valve in my 68 F100 short bed in people's minds are always blown on how much I have into it to get it to run as well as it does
Nah man. You can make 500HP for $17 dollars with a 12V 😉
Make millions with a 12 valve every year still ... But In first or second gear and Almost at idol Behind Drilling Rigs. Alot of drilling rigs came with 12 valves not just my trucks so that makes me happy ....I hear that sound in my Dreams.
A p pump 12 v bottom end can handle about 700hp stock, all you need is 3-4k gov springs, valve springs, arp head studs, 0 fuel plate( or no plate), a nice set of 120 horse injectors, 4 or 5 in turbo back straight pipe, nicely tuned pump, and a 3rd gen turbo (or one of your choosing), and you can make a clean very reliable 450-550 hp with over 1000ft lbs of torque, and also a tranny that’ll hold this power, but it is very easy and very cheap to build one of these pigs, love the vids please correct if I’m wrong but I’ve seen and helped build multiple p pump 12v to rippers ( can’t say the same for VE pump 12v, there just pigs )
You need everything I listed to make a reliable, streetable, clean 550HP or 700HP. I don’t spend money unless I have to 😉. It might be easy, but it isn’t cheap.
@@freedomworx yes totally agree, that would make a truck drive like a dream, and run like a top 365 days out of the year, but we are normal, everyday drivers that tow wheelers on weekends, if your not doing boosted launches and already have the normal upgrades such as, lift pump, egt-coolant-trans temp gauges, and have a manual tranny , but we have all gotten very lucky and scored on two built trannys for under 2000$ a peice still rippin three years later, but a normal dude with common sense can do a minimal build and keep the motor alive. Keepin it cheap and driving moderate, again these vids are super informational, love it keep it up 👍
@PNWRIPPA yes, I’m sure someone could get away with it for a while. Just depends on how much they like to party 😂
Wrong stock bottom end will handle over 1000hp on a 12v. A 5.9common rail will only handle 700hp because of the rods. That's why they put 12v rods on the common rails. Tons of 12v pulling trucks over 1000hp with stock bottom ends
@@bigmurph1447 damnnnn, I’ve heard of people running shitloads of power through stock bottom ends, I’ve just never witnessed a 12v with over 650hp, thanks man 👍ima read up on some builds.
I never understand why people try to juice up 12 valves... The best thing about them is that they're tireless dogs. Add oil. Add diesel or jet fuel. Go for literally forever.
Because they are unbearable to drive in stock trim 😉
@@freedomworx Dep[ends, if you just want a reliable work truck that will get you from point A to point B for decades with very few problems they are great, if you want a sport truck they suck in stock form.
wow it amazes me how far trucks have come my 2018 F150 is putting 350 🐎 horse and 430 pounds of torque to the ground with just a 93 octane tune. just a decade or so ago u had to have a Diesel to make that much. We are really spoiled horsepower wise with modern truck! Not to mention modern Diesels putting out 500 horse and 1200 pounds of torque!! unfortunately emissions systems and def have killed there reliability. Great video brother I'm not really a Cummins guy but I enjoy this video and look forward to more
I’m glad you enjoyed it. 👍
@@freedomworx thanks for the reply bro u earned a subscription. have a good week
@trackpackgt877 awesome 👍
My ‘18 halfton ford with 5.0 out pulls the 05 dodge with 5.9 Cummins I had once. Both in take off and up hills. Sure, it revs out more but still, goes to show how overrated Cummins and other diesels are compared to modern gassers.
If I was pulling trailers very often I would go with a diesel but for pulling a heavy load a few times a year, having a stinky noisy Cummins is impractical and not economical any anyway. Way quicker, more comfortable, and fun to drive than a big turf with a tractor engine
@@3000fpe and a 3.5L Eco-Boost will outpull that 5.0L 😉.
Dropped a valve on my racing lawnmower and bent a pushrod. why did Briggs make the exhaust valve pushrod hollow aluminum?
Well having worked for Briggs and Stratton as a Co-op while is was engineering school, I can tell you that just about anything in that engine that makes you scratch your head, is the way it is to reduce manufacturing costs 😉
@@freedomworx makes sense
Sweet Racin Mowers ! For cooling and oil flow I guess 🤔 makes the valve lighter for cooling . Not so heat sinked maybe .
@@cupwalker24.7 the thing is, it’s a splash lubricated engine so I assume it’s for cost savings. I just switched it out for a steel one
@@cupwalker24.7 the thing is, it’s a splash lubricated engine so I assume it’s for cost savings. I just switched it out for a steel one
I was so hoping you would use those new golf ball speed of air pistons!
Love your content!!
You ever looked at the price of those pistons? Only way I’m trying them is if they send them to me for free. 🥴
Im glad you made this video, i love my 12v cummins. Its a stick shift, 4x4, dually found it for 9k bone stock. Ive installed compounds, replaced turbos, imstalled a dual mass clutch, and now im on to head studs and pump upgrades. This is really expensive and time consuming. But i wouldnt trade how easy the repairs are for the hp my dads 6.7 makes, hes spent triple just in repairs for failed parts
Yeah, those new diesel repairs can get very expensive. 👍
I giggle at every 600hp 12 valve, because it's really only 400...
Get a full port job though and the head outflows a 4 valve.
Butt Dyno certified 🤓
1st time watching one of your videos, I watch another dude that does workout videos Ryan Humiston, and I swear you not only look like him but your humor is exactly like his. You made me laugh about 80 times. Educational and funny. Subscribed!
I appreciate the support. I’ll have to look him up 👍
Awesome, happy to find a new channel to binge of quality content.
Thanks for watching 👍😎
That’s quite a bit of work. I’ll probably never build a diesel engine but can definitely enjoy your suffering buddy. 🛠️
You can suffer vicariously through me 😉
“Need a bigger shop, you guys need to subscribe “ I feel you brother. This is the first video of yours I’ve seen but I subbed because I felt that lmao
I appreciate the support 😎👍
"Still has a dashboard & rocker panels"
Bro.....that had me ROLLIN'! 😆👍🏻👍🏻
2nd Gen’s are turds 💩🤷🏻♂️😂
@@freedomworx true 😂
I’m here to defend and trash my 6.0 all in one comment. You can build a 600 horse truck for way less than 26 grand but your little tidbit about the trans being able to hold it is dead wrong, I’ve gone through 3 stock ones in 3 years at about 500-550 horse 😂
Operator error 😂😂😉
@@freedomworx to be fair to the hardware, I’m buying used units from the local scrap yard
Bought my first cummins truck, 97 12v, has arp heads, and sure fire ring head, and new holset hx35, i dont know what size injectors are on it but was told they aren't stock so woohooo, I'm very happy with it. Paid 6200 bucks for it 5 speed manual. I just needed a good farm truck so I probably won't do anything to it, has plenty of get up and go for my needs. But watching this video and learning about the killer dowel pin, I will most definitely look into any aftermarket stuff that might fix that, so if anyone has any suggestions please let me know.
Yeah, you need to make sure the KDP gets addressed. You've probably got leaks on the front end that need to be addressed anyway while you have it apart. 😉
Good video, I've spent 15k+ on just making sure my 12 valve runs good for another 30 years. It was bone stock, probably didnt need to mess with it, if you ever driven a stock p7100 you know the struggles. Banks twin ram, ex manifold, afc live, 58mm turbo, exhaust brake, intercooler, headjob, banks intake, ARP studs, straight pipe, gauges, ETC. Its ready for the end times but it probably makes 250-3500 hp for ever.
Yeah, they are pretty anemic when stock. Anyone says they should be left stock either hasn't ridden in one, or has no soul 😂
I love how many people completely missed the point of your video. Keep up the good work
Yep. Folks hear what they want to hear and then argue a point that wasn't even part of the conversation 😂
I was always on the fence with diesels, but I still remember the day Mozart's Lacrimosa played in my head when I saw a single cab shortbed D150 Cummins swap with a turbo bolted straight to the exhaust manifold timed right at head, piped directly to the intake. It was so beautiful. So simple. Just a turbo, a short piece of pipe, and two short rubber hose connectors. Straight out the turbo and literally straight into the throttle body. Perfection.
That 12 valve sound has hooked many men 😂
Loved the video. The 12 valve is my favorite engine by a mile. I pulled one out of a ford box truck to swap into my dually square body. Timing cover plaque states 230HP @2200rpm and 605ft lbs of torque @1400rpm. It moves the truck along pretty nice, although I've always wanted to turn it up. But so far I've left it alone because I absolutely need that stock, million mile reliablity. But it's tempting...
You'll never drive it a million miles anyway. Turn it up 😎
Something about putting in the extra effort to balance the crank, rods and pistons as well as putting every part through electrolysis to clean it all the way up just gives you peace of mind. The way a balanced engine runs and sounds is amazing as well as how much vibration gets eliminated.
Engine balancing is overrated in my opinion. I threw a small block together with a piston that was 80 grams lighter than the other 7. Has a blower on it and runs at 3k rpm all day long, with runs up to 5,500. Has zero vibration. It’s a complete waste of money on an engine like this Cummins though. It simply won’t spin fast enough to ever notice. If you want to spin one of these heavy pigs up to 5k or 6k, that’s a different story.
ive been slowly but surely building my 97 7.3 into a (more) reliable motor. been a fun project to say the least, every time a part fails, i do my research and replace it with something tougher or more efficient. the fluidampr harmonic balancer and melling LPOP was the last real battle I had with the truck. injector o-rings and valve cover gaskets are coming up next.
i did wonder for a while if i wouldn't have been better off 12v swapping it but the money never looked right when you consider all the supporting mods into that swap, especially when i already had a running truck producing acceptable power. i appreciate the video my man.
Fixing the 7.3L will be cheaper by a huge margin. Pretty much everyone underestimates the budget and time required to do a swap. Just keep throwing money at the Powersmoke. 👍
I had a Case 2096 with the 5.9 Cummins…the engine was phenomenal!…the tractor not so much…Case put them in most of their construction equipment that was 20 ton and under…they had them in their Maxxum 5100 and 5200 series…super engines!..
Yep. It was definitely the standard in it's day 👍
Kdp got my 1st gen at 190k ish previous owner payed to have it fixed. They jb welded the cracked case and billed for doing it right, left the pin in the oil pan for me to find. The crank gear slipped ~ ½ a tooth retarded the cam. Stock 160/400 tune made 491.0@1846 178.3@1976 to the tire.
At~500k mi it got an overhaul crank was bent and mains where tapered from1 @0.0045 through 4@0.0035 5-7 @0.0035 so would pass mustard as factory new.. 5 and 6 where 0.003 out of round and took 0.020 over to clean up.
Point is theas are tuff motors.
Put the 2nd gen on a 3k lbs trailer (16500lbs total)and went for a 550mi drive to seat the rings
They are super tough... But somebody treated this one bad!!!
I watched this owning a low mile 4x4 lbz I spent 8k on a year ago. My ego is fully flexed. But I still love a 12v with a built re
A daily an LBZ that’s my Grandad bought new 😎👍
Hones are really meant to make a bore round and take the taper out while taking them to size as well and to give them a good finish, that is actually a degalzer but what ever😶
Let me ask you this, why do machine shops use a hone after they bore a cylinder? Why not just bore the cylinder and send it out the door? I mean, it’s already straight and true, right??? There are very few instances where a machine shop will use a hone to true up a cylinder. They will bore the cylinder to true it up, and then use a hone to achieve the proper surface finish, just like I said 🥱
He's right about the machine shop and spending all that money. But he's also right about rolling the dice, as many of those DIY fixes introduce yet another dice roll. And how many of those do you get per engine, before you finally come up snake eyes? I hate coming up snake eyes
I think you can roll the dice a bunch of times with a 12V before you go bust 😉…probably
I like the Premiers gives an opportunity to talk with the creator
Yeah buddy 👍
The problem with that isky tool is the cutter geometry is dumb, you really need to grind a touch of relief on the face of the cutter to make it work
I didn’t have any trouble with it cutting. But the operator was a little short on stamina 😂
Diesels aren’t really my thing, but they’ve been on the fringe of my interest for a while now. This was an entertaining entry into the subject. Great video style. It’s also cool to see something other than a LS go into the service truck. You got yourself a new subscriber!
I’m glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for the support 👍
I like any diesel that can pull 30k gross every day and hit 1 million miles with only oil/filter changes. In this case, that is the 12V/P7100. Truck was $2500 in 2007, still runnin.
How many transmission you gone through? Serious question. My 2006 has had 3 new transmissions installed. Every 100k just like clockwork. 😂
@@freedomworx I don't use automatics. I run the NV4500 with a 5th gear modification. Before that it backed off the nut in 5th gear pulling a load of drill pipe. I have rebuilt the 46re,47re,48re for friends every 100k miles. I've never put all the fancy sonnax parts in etc, but that may increase the mileage. If I was going to run an Auto it would be the Allison 3000 series, rugged duty, same ones they run on trash trucks etc.
My daily is a Duramax, and that Alison 1000 is the tits. Your out an Allison 1000 next to a 46,47,48, and it makes you wonder how the Dodge transmission last as long as they do. Tiny little critters.
I can’t speak for the other makes, but as a 6.0 guy, I can tell you $20k for 400hp is WAY too high. Most expensive thing 6.0 needs are NEW o-ringed heads. Stock fueling system, turbo, tranny are all fine at that level. Not much more $ will get you 500hp. Simple compound kit gets you 600hp+. It’s the reason 6.0’s have a following. They’re cheap and can make great power reliably. They’re super responsive and rev high. Fun engine. 💪🏼🇺🇸🦅
$10k for the truck and $10k to delete it, o-ring it, machine it, stud it, and tune it. Thats my math 👍
12 valves have an Achilles heel
6.0s have a whole set of Achilles toes 😂
@@hopingforthebest1.9not having electronically controlled injection is more than an Achilles heel, lol. It’s a deal breaker for me. Not interested in driving an inefficient smoke box. And if you turn the smoke down with AFC Live, you go back to turtle mode, right? High price to pay for not understanding how to work on the simple and humble 6 Liter.
@@edwardman1742 put down the crack pipe kid
@@ks_1111 I learned nothing from that comment, so you wasted your life posting, and I wasted my life reading. 😞
I’ll say this I’ve seen a lot of people who love the coyote engine from ford but my experience with one was at first positive then went to the negative once i started seeing every issue it had to offer between 2016-2022 we ended up trading it in for a 22 ram 1500 big horn 4x4 which has been more reliable than the ford and the crazy thing is the ford was well maintained, regular oil changes, tire rotations, replacing brakes and rotors when it was needed, but the truck had a little gremlin that would see if one thing was fixed it would break another thing til it got to the point of the truck becoming unreliable due to overheating and because I was diagnosed with cancer in 2022 that would be a big problem since my appointments weren’t exactly a quick trip one of the medical facilities was 15-25 mins from me but the other was around 35-40 minutes from me which would be a huge problem if we broke down on the way there so that prompted us to finally trade in the ford for a ram 1500 4x4 big horn with a 5.7 Hemi and so far it has been an amazing truck, it’s got everything we could ask for, independent climate controls for driver and passenger, a 9ch Harmon kardon audio system with a 12.0 inch infotainment system although we might have the larger 14.0 inch screen I’d have to measure it regardless it’s useable as the truck has a backup camera, and does gps which is nice, it has satellite radio the truck also features a 120v inverter so you can plug your wall charger in for your phone or whatever device you need to charge such as a laptop, tablet etc so it’s nice and the truck has pretty decent ground clearance for a stock 4x4 truck so definitely one of my new favorites!
I’d hope a 2022 truck is still reliable. I daily a 2006 Duramax with 190k miles on it. It’s never been to a shop in 18 years. I’ve replaced 2 glow plugs, 2 front wheel hubs, and seals on the fuel filter housing. That’s a total of $550 in parts and about 6 hours of labor in 18 years. 😉
I love your work and to the point on your video. Love it man
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching 👍
With minimal diesel knowledge from me... what's your opinion on P pump 24V?
and re engine swaps, 4BT are more popular in some cases, to at least slightly reduce weight. Turns out they even make a 16V 4BT too but they're hens teeth.
Nothing wrong with a P-Pump 24V or a 4BT. The downside to a 4BT is just that they are expensive. Much more so than a 6BT.
This video was perfect. Love the way that you put up a chart with all the answers and went over both the pros and cons.
I’m glad you enjoyed it 👍
so did dynamite diesel cover the lost injectors since they disappeared during return shipping? was there a physical hole in the box or were they simply never put in the box? i feel like we need more info on this story
They actually disappeared on the way to DDP. They called me and asked why I sent an empty box 😂. USPS at its finest…
Im down to 20 Cummins and can hardly sleep at night...
wtb: more 12V Cummins Turbo Diesels... hmu
You have problems 😂
@@freedomworx don't we all
Excellent video. From someone not on the bandwagon i can agree with practically everything you said. I dont think ive ever heard anyone push the lbz that hard but id say theyre solid to 550. Hurts a little to not see the idi's represented, you can certainly buy and build a 7.3 idi to get 300hp for under 10k no problem, does take a fair bit more work than all the others though, assuming NA, add another couple grand to hit 400. Perks are theyre quiet, second best sounding engine behind the 6.0, and they were put in the best looking pickups.
Yeah, all of those numbers are obviously debatable. I was just trying to get folks to think about the entire picture, the entire truck, before deciding that they "had to have a 12 valve"
As a MAN UNFORTUNATELY living in COMMUNIST NEW YORK, I Love you southern boys, in a MANLY,HETEROSEXUAL way..we're not all bad here in NY..Great video.
I’ve never actually visited NY. I want to, just not the city part of New York. I know there is some beautiful country up there 👍
Lisle makes a version of the old Sunnen style hone and they sell it for less than a couple hundred bucks. If your bore is still within size spec for your current pistons and you just want to true it back up you can get it down to tenths of taper with one, and if there's any oval shape to your bores it'll make them round again too. They're supposed to go in a machine to get the perfect crosshatch, but you can do just fine putting it into a hand drill. I did the cylinders on my tractor engine because they needed re-sleeving and I've had zero issues with oil consumption, so I know the crosshatch turned out fine. If you get under half a thou taper you can spin it to 8 grand no problem. Since this is a diesel at 4 grand, you'll have zero issues with that 1 thou of taper and it would be overkill trying to exceed it. You know it's not out of round by more than that either, which is also fine. You'll probably distort the cylinders more than that torquing down the head.
I’d never seen that Lisle hone until you mentioned it. Looks like a good unit 👍
12 valve saved my marriage, before getting it my wife tried to talk to me on road trips.
Yep. And saving a marriage is saving money. So it basically made you money 🤓
@@freedomworx That it did that truck was the lowest cost 100K i ever put on a vehicle. In 100K i had a headlight relay (the switch burns out as soon as you let someone else drive it) and had to adjust that stupid throttle idle adjustment (gen 2 if you know the one you know my pain).
I got one out of a case in my 89f250 pretty funny everyone think came from a dodge
Nice 😎
That Isky tool is pretty neat. I did the same thing with my 12 valve, except I did it in the truck. Had to make shorter handles for it because the original handles hit the firewall.
That sounds like a pain!! I was very surprised at how many calories it burned 😂
We need an update on the bypass oil filter please good sir!!
I've got 8,500 miles on the oil. Going to run an analysis and do a follow-up at 10,000 miles.
The 12 valve is not the most reliable light duty engine. The 6-71 Detroit diesel is far more reliable. I had 2 identical push boats one had a pair of 12 valve Cummins and the other had a pair of 671 Detroits. The 671s were naturally aspirated with N75s and made around 250 HP. The 12 valve Cummins were turbocharged, non intercooled, and rated for 260HP. Both boats got about the same number of hours and moved the same barges on the same bodies of water. In 5 years I had 8 blown up Cummins and only 1 Detroit that wasn’t even blown up it just was in the shop for an overhaul because it was burning a ton of oil. The 671 is more reliable then the 12 valve and it has replaceable liners so you can freshen it up in place between rebuilds. I’m not a fan of the Detroit diesels GM has made some terrible Detroit diesels like the 92 series ticking time bomb. But the inline 671 at a reasonable HP level in my experience is very reliable. Not saying the Cummins is a POS by any stretch of the imagination, but the 671 is certainly a better engine if the additional weight isn’t a concern.
You are comparing a 2-Stroke 426CI purpose built medium duty engine to a 359CI 4-stroke light duty engine. They are not competitors and not even in the same category. The 71 Series Detroit is a great platform, but it is not a light duty engine. You might as well be comparing the 5.9 Cummins to a DT466.
Given what I put my 5.9 and 6.7 through, I can't imagine 8 of them blowing up... my 5.9 maxed out at 590/1200 on dyno, and I ran it for 160k mi at 550 horse, more in the 6.7. granted I don't use all that every running moment, but if you keep them under 200° F and the right oil (imperative), they last.
@@Faolan161 All I can tell you is these were stock factory new complete engines (oil pan to air filter). They ran 15w-40 Shell Rotella, got weekly oil changes, ran 24hours a day 7 days a week half the year and they lasted about 6-8 months before either oil consumption became excessive, or they had a major failure (like a rod through the side of the block). We just replaced them with a brand new Cummins complete engine when they failed. I’m not saying they are bad engines just that they don’t last anywhere as long as other engines in the 250 HP class. As for what the operators did to these things I couldn’t tell you. Most of these guys are animals so they certainly didn’t treat them nicely. However the same animals ran the other boat (with the Detroits) on the same jobs, moving the same dump scows and that didn’t eat anywhere near as many engines. It’s the only apples to apples comparison I can make, we run Cats, Cummins, Detroits, EMDs, John Deeres, and even a few Kubotas. However they are not running in the same equipment doing the same job and being used by the same people. The two little push boats were identical and in my opinion a fair comparison. I could say the John Deere 4045s are the best small engines because on my gensets they seem to go about 45,000 hours between overhauls. However this wouldn’t be a fair comparison as they are the only ones powering this type of genset. Even comparing them to the Kubotas of the portable gensets wouldn’t be fair.
@@Trump985 Something's gotta be wrong in there to blow up that many Cummins engines. I run a 4 cyl Cummins 4.5l in a skid steer as hard as I can, and the oil even stays clean at 500-700 hrs between oil changes, 4000 it's on it now. That's tougher than the boat work. Something's off, Cummins handle massive workloads just like yours all around the world. Of course, I'm the kind of guy who looks for the root cause of breakage so I can repair or redesign with proper parts so it doesn't melt itself down...
I hope you've found a better solution, that gets expensive fast.
@@Faolan161 how much do you know about boats? There are not many if any land vehicle that you can compare to a boat in the amount of abuse it takes.
There's a reason why 12 valves are used in commercial, marine, on road, stationary etc and duramax/powerstrokes are not. Don't be a rube.
There is no comparison between a 6BT and a modern Powerstroke or Duramax. The Cummins was designed as an industrial engine in the 80's with little to no emissions requirements to meet. The Powerstroke and Duramax engines were specifically designed as light truck engines with weight, efficiency, and emissions standards to consider. And as far as power and efficiency, the 6 BT cant hold a candle to a modern Duramax or Powerstroke. Don't be a simp. I own a 7.3 Powerstroke, an LBZ Duramax, a 6BT and a Commons Rail 5.9, so I am not biased. If you want a tractor or boat engine, buy a 6BT, but don't be deceived into thinking that you are gong to buy a 2nd Gen Ram truck and get 6.7 Powerstroke Super Duty or 6.6 Duramax 2500HD performance out of it. That's a pipe dream.
D-Max, and power stroke engines are used in the medium duty GMC, and F750 trucks. Gale Banks builds D-Max engines for marine use.
@@Bill-sp8kb like I said the, the Cummins was designed for medium duty applications from the get go. It was never intended to be stuck in a pickup truck. The Duramax and Powerstroke engines, for the most part, were specifically designed for a pickup truck. They get detuned and stuck in larger trucks, but that’s not what they are designed for. And yes, Banks does produce Duramax engines for military marine applications, but that doesn’t mean they are ideal for the application. It just means Gale Banks is an awesome salesman, and the government is ran by idiots. I have worked for the government for 21 years, including 5 in the Marine Corps, and can confirm that U.S. government employees, are in fact… idiots. 🤓
My philosophy has always been get what you can out of your vehicle/engine until something breaks, then mod it. My Duramax is at 753,000 miles with a few water pumps and one set of injectors (Yes still original CP3 pump). Tuned of course but she keeps going, trans too. My close friend has a 2012 Cummins and has done so much work to it.... and suffered several breakdowns, mostly because of the work that he thought would be benificial.
The Duramax trucks don’t get enough credit for their reliability and longevity. My daily is a 2006 LBZ truck. 190k miles with nothing more than glow plugs and fuel filter housing seals.
@@freedomworx mine blew the HG at 193k, but it was also 500hp. And it still pulled my 9k camper on a 3k mile trip threw CO and SD with a blown HG. I love my LBZ. It's a much better truck over all then anything that came with a Cummins in it.
Aaand found my new favorite channel. Instant subscribe
I appreciate the support 👍
My 30 year old case is super reliable. And it starts as easy as a gas engine even on the coldest days. Not everything is about racing and motorsports.
Well I’m speaking to diesel enthusiasts who buy diesel trucks with the intention of getting g the most out of them. The 6BT is one of the greatest engines ever built, but not everything g is about being a lethargic slug for a million miles 😉
Man you and me have similar tastes. I like tinkering with trucks and reloading and the 2a as well. I have a 550 on my bench along with a few other presses. The Dillon is the only kinda progressive press I own though.
That little Lee Press gets more action than the Dillon 😂
"BEST IN ITS CLASS"...
Better than Ford...😂
I own all three brands. My Excursion is the best of the bunch 🤷🏻♂️. But I daily my Duramax, it’s a very close second. My Dodge is junk 😂
@freedomworx I went to universal technical institute. All the teachers prefer ford. They said if the Dodge has six cup holders instead of five like everyone else, it's in its own class... (6 cylinder diesel).. remember those commercials 🤢
You dont need all that to make 500hp. And it can be done without rolling coal all over gods green earth if you drive properly. Obviously well built trans using quality parts is a given. My extended cab dually did 13.20s @ 7050lb With a 63, studs, 5x12s, 20 degrees of timing, 4ks, no plate, and a lock up switch. 1500 egts max at the end of the quarter 800 cruising. Daily drove and towed with it like that for 10 years no problems untill i got hit by drunk driver 😢 then it was totaled.
500HP is not 550HP 😉
It definitely was about 550 to run that number at that weight. But ok 😏
@@freedomworx rack plug and intake horn boom 550
😂😂 that noise at 18:51 🌈💅🏼
It hurt and I was trying to cope with the pain 😂
90% of 12 valves manufactured are still running, the trucks might have rotted away but the engines live on in other trucks and equipment
Still pumping out 160 crank horsepower 30 years later 😉. Doesn’t sound so impressive when I put it like that. My 54 year old Jeep Dauntless 225 V6 is still pumping out 160HP… 54 years later 😎
I'm fine with my VE Rotary injection pump being tuned to somewhere between 500-550 pound feet of torque.
I wish I was that easily assumed 😉👍
I hear the “Speed of Air Pistons” are the way to go especially if you are breaking it down.
Go price a set and you'll see why nobody runs them 😉
@@freedomworx That makes since, I saw them being advertised on another channel. Thank you for the replies, your channel is a lot of fun to watch. You do a great job editing and the jokes are spot on.
12 Valves cummins engines are bulletproof. I've owned 6 of them. All rotary.pumps and every one of em I held to the floor and every one of them ran wide open and never even broke a sweat. Thete are two elements their greatness. Efficiency and reliability. No other diesel engine is a simple or as durable offered in any pickup. In the event that the 12 valve does need a head or gasket or injector or all 3? Cheap. Easy. There is nothing more affordable to repair or maintain.
Their efficient because they don't any power in pickup truck trim 😉
@@freedomworx mines turned up tons of power and still good on fuel.
I’m not saying that they are inefficient, but if you compare them to a modern commonrail truck, and compare their Brake Specific Fuel Consumption(how much fuel is consumed at a specific hp level), they aren’t that impressive. The newer vehicles have better injection control, variable timing, better turbos, better volumetric efficiency, better materials, better tolerances, better surface finishes, better piston ring packs, roller lifters, etc. There is a lot of friction reduction and injection control which results in much better utilization of all the energy in the fuel. The newer rigs are bigger, heavier, boxier, running huge tires, meeting emissions standard with 3 times the power, and still returning comparable fuel efficiency.
@freedomworx Well of course the newer diesel engines are far more modern engineering wise but at the end of the day they ate a millionaires toy. Over a 100 thousand dollars for a new diesel truck. Isn't it funny how the manufactures offer 160km warranty and after that your on borrowed time . Price out a new turbo/injectors/head gaskets etc for any newer truck then price out any repair on a 12 valve. Not to mention dumping Def fluid in em. Boils down to your wallet. 12 valve cummins is a million mile motor. Very few modern engines do it without a major repairs along the way.
@@3ormore660 I don’t disagree, just speaking from an engineering standpoint. From an economic standpoint, I’d rather own 7 pre-emissions truck than the one brand new truck I could buy with the same amount of money. Probably why I own 3 pre-emissions trucks in addition to this 12 valve 😉
I like that engine stand. Can you give some info?
I hate it. If you're close to Atlanta I'll make you a good deal on it 😂
@@freedomworx No. Sorry. From Albany, but live a bit further.
I just put an OM 617 in my jeep. I never spent so much money to be this disappointed. But I get about 20 miles per pound of bacon.
You doubled the weight of the Jeep 😂😉
Were at the point where a common rail is very swappable. But i always joke about p pumping my 6.7
It’s certainly doable. Not a big deal. But the fewer wires the better for me. 🤓
The only thing wrong with this, it's overrated not overated 😂. Great work 🎉
In my defense, I only spelled it wrong 1 out of 2 times. 😂😂. I saw it while editing. Figured it’d just be a good Easter Egg for someone. Nothing I could do about it at that point. Good eye 👍
Nahhhh. As far as classic american diesel truck motors it's 6bt or bust. There are some more exotic swaps that seem to be becoming more popular such as the om606. Personally, I think the john deere 4 banger is better than the 6bt. It's just a pain to track down is all.
A 7.3 sits level with a 5.9 for power for the first almost 10 years. If you've never driven a detuned 24v nv4500, you've missed out on hitting your boost at 2800 rpms finally
I'll stick with the 6BT. I like the 4BT also, but they are a good bit more expensive than the 6s.
Perkins in line 6 from massy Ferguson 760 combine mid 70s simple design swap to half ton dodge standard transmission reliable
A guaranteed fact. A 913(215hp) ppump is not in the same ballpark as the 160-175hp pumps .
I wish this was a 215HP pump. But the 180HP Pump should be enough for this build...for now. 😉
@@freedomworx 180 pump is good. I still prefer the 913/887 tho. As there is a difference.
@@jeremymyers5643 The 215HP Pump has a more capable plunger and barrel setup.
@@freedomworxknow anything about a 230hp pump? I got a 12V out of an RV with 38k miles and am building it to replace a blown 6.4…but the ID plate on the pump is missing. Motor plate says it was made in ‘96 and it’s a 230hp motor but can’t find anything on the pump other than casting numbers.
@@kawi10r998ccit's a good one. I know that. I've got one out of a Tour Bus getting compounds soon for ma Fummins.
Great vid, man. I learned a lot.
Question: Who do you recommend for a built transmission to handle that kind of power? I'm not going that high with my 7.3 PS, but i like to overbuild.
For a 7.3 built trans: Twisted Diesel, A1 transmission of Georgia, BTS, Sam Wise all good ones.
A1 Trans in Georgia built the trans in my 7.3L Excursion. I highly recommend those guys. 👍
Put some of that money into a Dillon 1050 and your pockets will be perpetually empty with the price of components these days 😅
Pew Pew
Mine is the 24v. Bigger number=Better. Mine was so high tech and clean that it came from the factory WITHOUT a catalytic converter. I have no idea what kind of HP it makes, but I have been pretty cheap with the upgrades. I first got TST to reprogram the ECM for a power increase and they lowered the idle speed. Then I got DD Stage III injectors some kind of modified HX 40 turbo, a fancy exhaust manifold and then a TST Competition box with a custom program for sled pulling. The most expensive upgraded were to the clutch and 5-speed.
Here an interest fact about 24Vs, and this is basically applicable to all 4 valve per cylinder diesels. They didn’t go to 4 valves for more flow, they went to for valves so they could put the injector in the center of the cylinder, because that reduced exhaust emissions and helped them meet more stringent emissions standards 🤓
@@freedomworx Years ago before my turbo upgrade I was running the stock turbo and racing another truck one night I pegged my 50psi boost gauge. Then heard a loud noise and my engine started running really rough. Turns out my turbo exploded and pieces of it got stuck in the intake valves. That was my most expensive whoopsie. Had to have the head rebuilt and a new turbo installed. They also found the exhaust manifold was cracked and replaced with a 3 piece one. Still running like a Champ with over 200k miles.
@kdw75 they are tough 👍
DD671 has entered the chat. If you have the means...I highly recommend picking one up
They are amazing engines, probably some of the toughest engines ever devised, just not light duty. 😉
Great content brother...subbed for sure @freedomworx
Thank you 👍
As the owner of a 95 12 valve that dynos at 540hp/1236 ft-lbs I started to add up costs over the last few years to prove your costs were excessive and honestly I'm at about $6k but that includes swapping my nv4500 for a nv5600 and me doing all of the work including the trans rebuild. These dinosaurs are expensive to keep alive 😂
I'd say you got out pretty cheap. But did you adjust for inflation? Because it's almost like we've had a lot of that over the last 3 years 😉
@freedomworx there certainly has been some part increases but I purchased a lot of it on black Friday, or other sales. My hx35/40 hybrid (to retain exhaust brake) was also built by me so that was only about $600. Southbend street dual disc got used like new for $500. All about those deals!
@wyattl341 I love a good deal. I bought most of this stuff on sale myself. Just did the math with retail prices. 👍
Thanks for the reply. 100 percent. I thank you.
Appetite all you did .
Pray you get a million hits.
Mick Australia 🇦🇺
Thanks 👍
❤❤❤❤❤
Can i ask you to make a video regarding the detroit 6.2? We love it here in Norway :D
Well I’ve accused a couple through my years, never succeeded at breaking one 😉
Ever get those results for the bypass filter?
I’ve got 8k miles the oil. Waiting until 10k 👍
I like how he leaves the option of a 24 valve and the fact that you can make a a reliable 500 to 600 horsepower easily with the 6.1 stroker 12 valve and you can still make a 24 valve run with no wires fully mechanical by putting a p pump on it
I also left out the 6.4 Powerstroke which will make more power for less than every other engine on the list. There is nothing economical about a 6.1 Stroker or P-Pumping a 24 Valve.
The dt360 is 10 times the motor cummins build. Internationals 5.9l (Dt360) can see 700hp from just a turbo and p7100. And sustain those powers.
Have fun stuffing it into a pickup.
Chevy Vortec 350 makes 320 horsepower with carb HI distributor intake and headers $1000.👍
And 350lb-ft of torque. A diesel will be making twice the torque at that horsepower level. They are not the same thing. 😉. I’ve got a blown 350SBC, and my bone stock LBZ Duramax will eat its lunch 😉
Bro, at the TDR, their are original 12 valve engines with over 1 million miles, many, many of them
What’s your point?
WOW! Thanks I really enjoyed you video. I also found out I was real smart in 06 to buy my lbz truck....lol
My daily is an LBZ 😉
I have a 1st gen 12v , 2nd gen 24v and a 3rd gen 24v 6.7. Like my ex wifes all my trucks have their pros n cons .
There are certainly pros and cons to every truck. When it comes to Ram trucks, the everything besides the engine is the Con 😉 I have a Regular Cab 4x4 5.9 3rd Gen. I love driving it. It's fast, fun, and I love the sound. But compared to my Excursion or Duramax trucks. The longevity just isn't there. It falls apart and breaks if you look at it wrong 😂
Love your videos and your sens of humor. I have inherited my late fathers 2002 2500 sport with the 24 valve vp44 he already had it tuned and tickled up to about 450 hp not sure i believe it.
You can make a good bit of power on a VP44. Just make sure it’s got a good lift pump feeding it 👍
By time you buy fluids,gaskets,and all the shit that will inevitably break, or you'll find worn out so you might as well replace it while you're in there your in at least another 500
The only Cummins that doesn’t leak, is the one that’s out of oil 😂
if kept under 8oohp they do just fine
We shall see 😎
@@freedomworx if you want 1000hp the 8.3 engines the better deal
@@andrewsmart2949 I actually don't know much about the 8.3. I haven't ever studied them. 👍
@@freedomworx ive worked on the 8.3 in grain harvesters,trucks and buses,the early versions with the small cam followers were a bit unreliable,breaking the mushroom off the lifter and it then jamming betwwen the block and the cam breaking one or both of them,early blocks can be machined to take the bigger followers from the later engines,most were around 340hp in factory trim but easliy boosted well above that by just turning up the P pump
I like your attitude and delivery. Sub.
I appreciate the support 👍
No dash or rockers but did 500 whp for 3k in parts on 12 valve. Now I'm down the rabbit hole of spending fun money on it. Pre covid these trucks were cheaper now vp44 trucks will take that spot I believe.
So if you don’t mind me asking, where did you save money compared to my combination?
@@freedomworx turbo downpipe 2k 5x18 injectors 1k 4k governor springs 30 bucks. Stock lift pump and stock delivery valves at that point. Drove it 30k on used oil and did 6 to 800 burnouts on that setup 52 psi boost t3 drop in from savage fabrication
Stock headbolts is the funniest part
Well I certainly don’t doubt what you are saying. And that’s certainly a pretty solid track record. But I will say it doesn’t really meet my requirements for streetable clean horsepower. Not saying there is anything wrong with your approach, just saying it’s different than my goal, and acknowledging the differences 👍
Stock head bolts 😂😂🥴🥴
What about the 12 valve C? They are much better than Bs in my farm machinery, and they're sleeved.
Well it’s a bigger (8.3L) dedicated medium duty engine. I wouldn’t call it a light duty engine like the others. But still right up there with the 6BT. The wet sleeves have pros and cons. You can do an in frame easily with wet sleeves so that’s a benefit, but the wet sleeves are susceptible to cavitation/corrosion that you don’t really get in the B-series.
Can’t wait to see the next vid
Already in the works 👍
Love your videos. Make more and you will get more subs.
I appreciate it. I’m trying to speed up the process. But I’ve got a wife, kids, and a full time job competing for my time 👍
Just remember... kids, CZcams then wife. 😂 and try to fit work in there somewhere.
Work is optional
Wow the mid video ad just came on and it was a pp enlargement ad frigin hilarious I guess the algorithm was like he wants more hp in his truck maybe he wants a bigger pp ROFL
Was it BLUE CHEW??? 😂
My brothers been snapping LBZ cranks (3) with just tunners added.
Sounds like a personal problem 😉. It can happen. Might want to find a new tuner 😉