How to authenticate a "1960 Gibson Les Paul Standard"..?
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- čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
- I bought a Burst... or rather I THOUGHT I did...
You can check out the actual advice and forum discussion about this guitar here.....
www.lespaulfor...
Also, some people have asked me about the awesome neck repair on my '96 Les Paul... it was done by luthier Leighton Jennings in Leigh-on-Sea, Essex UK. Check him out here.... www.leightonsg... - Hudba
The shape of the headstock alone immediately alerted me
In what way?
Gibson made around 1,500 sunburst Les Pauls between 1958 and 1960, but today, only 3,000 survive.
Nearer 1400 in fact... but you're right, only about 3000 still in existence LOL....! 😁
that's hilarious!
@@hball6695 But largely true..!
@@hball6695 It's funny because it is true...
Gut every single owner probably swear, that its the real deal.
Wow, I didn't even notice the saddles on my abr-1 were brass !! Not till you said so and I checked, more sustain and less bright
Beauty and the burst! I love that book
Nice pics, but not much else...
Thanks for posting this. I followed the thread as it developed and this puts it all clear. I am glad you made out alright. You've handled it all very well.
Thank you... It's funny looking back now that I was convinced it was a real one when i first started the Zapper (my TooREX nickname..!) thread.... but by about comment 500 (LOL..!) I had changed my mind... It was the 'chew' evidence wot finally done it..! 😁
Fortunately the seller was cool and you didn't end upside down.
The seller didn't want to end up in Court/prison.......
It was really a joke about the video ending upside down.
@@jeffmariajenson9751 Oh.... it's the way you tell 'em.... 😉😃
well... you're now an expert. almost an expensive education. good on the seller for doing you right. thanks for sharing. peace!
Exactly... an expensive education, but hopefully worth it going forward! :-)
Awesome video , very educational thanks for taking the time to do this
My pleasure... thanks for your thanks Dan...Makes a change from some of the shite I've been getting on here just recently LOL..! 😀
Interesting and candid video - many thanks!
Thank you too!
If it is your passion, and joy every moment of it.
Not really, more of just a hobby..
@@telegrampam
I was a School Psychologist for 22 years in Milwaukee. My first passion is writing. I've written a book and 10 screenplays. If you're interested, my book is titled "CONTROL." (A book about people with an excessive need to control other people and things. It's also about people who allow themselves to be controlled). I made a short film on CZcams called "The Prologue Short Film."
Started playing 🎸 six months ago. I'm hooked.
@@lamontprospect9974 Not really into controlling people but thanks anyway and good luck with the book..! 😊
Hi Ian, it was just over a year ago on the LPF..........good that it was sorted out in the end. All the best........goldtop0
Wow... was it really over a year ago now...! Time flies when you're having a good argument..! 😁
Glad it all worked out for you. Good luck in your search. In the mean time get a recent Custom Shop RO. I have 2 2018s and they are like nothing I have ever played before.
Might do, but am currently looking at a '53 Goldtop conversion......
...which I ended up buying...! From Yuuki at PGV.. It's superb!
Great post very interesting 👍
Thank you!
Fascinating video
Thank you Sir!
Probably one of them Japanese lawsuit guitars. Wonderful , wonderful guitars in their own right. Nice video!
Very possibly...... A Greco or Tokai maybe..?
When a guitar "gets that far..." beyond it's actual value anything is possible. Best of luck sorting it out. Have a nice day! 🤓
Oi that's my garden bench..! What was the rant about then...? Tables LOL..?! 😂🤣
@@telegrampam Revised it again... Take care; cheers!
Thank you so much sir! 🙏🏻
If it doesn't have a broken headstock repair, it can't be an authentic Gibson.
Very true LOL...! 😁
one easy giveaway is the thickness of the binding inside the cutaway. The binding thickness should remain uniform around the perimeter of the entire body but you can see it gets thinner in the middle of the cutaway. The only way you'd see that on an original would be if someone refinished it and accidentally over-sanded the top.
Interesting comment! Thanks, will bear that in mind in future!
I would never buy anything from Elite Vintage Guitars. Even if I was omniscient, won Euromillions and knew a guitar was 100% legit, purely on principle.
The seller and his associates have an extremely poor reputation amongst the informed and seem to work on the principle of 'a few really expensive sales to people who mistakenly trust us' rather than just being straightforward. This is why all their guitars are very overpriced and lacking meaningful provenance, hoping people just see what they want to see and being motivated that they will miss this chance even if it is a lot more expensive than it really should be.
They come up in searches about Gibsons, Fenders, Yamahas, Wal basses and more. It's always the same, rare or high end quality instruments being sold for insane prices with the minimum of information they feel they can get away with. Usually the guitars are very played in, to the point of justifying non original parts and work.
I'm really glad you got your money back, no one deserves this to happen to them. Hope you get that 59 one day.
Now ya tell me LOL..! A bit late, but thanks anyway..! 😃
YES only deal with proper specialists such as ATB Guitars et al when you are spending this sort of money !I
Have owned a les Paul Standard, and a vintage Telecaster for over 50 years now ... and have actually had the the privilege of playing a friends genuine and verified 59 burst (its in the Burst book)
BUT ... I don't think that I would be able to really tell the difference (looks wise) between a very, very good fake or an original 58 or 59 Burst ... Leave it to the proven experts! ... Great video BTW!
Even 'experts' get it wrong sometimes though... I sent some pics to George Gruhn in Nashville and his Les Paul expert thought it was 'probably genuine', as did well-known collector Tom Wittrock... Some fakes are now VERY good!
Just get a custom shop 60th anniversary reissue of the 1960. You have a LONG way to go in order to authenticate the real thing.
Ended up buying a superb '53-'59 Conversion.... fantastic guitar!
@@telegrampam Why butcher a nice vintage Les Paul and try and turn it into something it's not? It will never be a real burst and with all the conversion going on pre-burst Les Pauls are gonna be more rare than real bursts..
@@simonvanderheijden432 Coz it's now a cracking guitar that looks and sounds great... Previously it wasn't....
@@telegrampam I have a problem with people destroying vintage guitars and try to make it into something it's not. You can put a diamond ring on a pig, it's still a pig. It's not a burst and it will never be a burst. I think it's kinda sad..
@@simonvanderheijden432 I think you're "kinda sad" mate... You have NO idea what state of repair the original '53 Gold Top was in before it was converted have you??! Well I have. It was dreadful - it had been refinished in what looked like Dulux emulsion, half the machine heads were either broken or non-original, and one of the P90s was bust... But that's ok is it..? Good luck sticking with your pigs.....
While videos like this are great for people like us..they are also great for the people that are creating these counterfeit/forged guitars. If we, the players/buyers/collectors are watching these videos so that we know what to look out for you can be certain that the 'bad guys' are also watching these videos. I'm sure that the guy who made this guitar will be sure to include things like a more pronounced 'chew' or tooling marks on his next 'build'.
Which is exactly why I didn't reveal the giveaway under the truss rod cover....
That's a gorgeous beast! i own a 1978 custom cherry sunburst. me likie. oh yeah
Very nice too!
Who cares.
@@Mr.56Goldtop About what?
@@Mr.56Goldtop hehehe
Nice video. I’m sorry that happened. Lol. Most of us serious Gibson fans know the truss rod differences. I’m a big fan of the Gibson truss rod, and it’s a major deal in my mind.
Exactly Steve.... in fact that was one of the 'trade secrets' I mentioned in the video..! :-)
Pretty impressive copy.
It is indeed... Sounds and plays great..!
The kind of thing nightmares are made of.
Or dreams....
the price should of been the first give away ..
Not if you consider how much work and original parts it needed..
That was an education, I was fully aware of Gibson's Les Paul from the 50-60s being 5 figured sums,but never in a million years think that the damn pick up surrounds are $20k !!!,or the poker chip $5k or the pickups being so Much if they're vintage, what an insight, amazing video, sorry it didn't turn out well for you, but you are very lucky to be in a position to take it back and had the money back already, phew, I bet there's a few who got 1 of these and they don't even know it, the only thing looked a bit off for me was the logo,but I would have put it down to age or something lol,👍✌️
the japanese guitars generally didn't have one piece necks. they would have a norlin style pancake neck or a 50s style neck but with the headstock jointed on
@@andrewgarcia3136 I'm sure buyers and sellers will learn from your info, great stuff 👍I was telling my mate about your experience yesterday and how much parts cost,his chin hit the floor 😂, also mentioned that repair job on the neck of your guitar,one of the best repair Jobs I've seen,or can't see in your case, it's excellent 👍
Yeah, i suppose i was lucky in the end (the threat of Court action helped a bit LOL..!). The NEW owner however contacted me recently asking me for proof it WAS a fake...!! He's convinced it's not...!! Wonder how much the mug paid for it....?! 😁
@@andrewgarcia3136 I had an Antoria LP in the '70s and I'm pretty sure it was one piece... I still have a 70s Columbus LP though and that IS a 2 piece...
@@noname1st139 It is indeed an excellent repair... In fact i took a '60s SG to the same guy, Leighton, last week to repair a small crack at the headstock.... But he had a good look at it and said it was just a lacquer crack, not the wood itself, and said no repair was necessary.... all free of charge..!! An excellent luthier IMHO, check him out at www.leightonsguitarshop.com/
The nylon saddles weren't used until about '62. The original bursts had Nickel plated saddles.
Interesting.. thanks!
Aw man! I'm sorry that happened to you mate. Glad the seller refunded your money. Hope you're happy with what you ended up with!
Absolutely... The threat of Court action helped a bit LOL...! And yes, VERY happy with what I ended up with.. a beautiful '53/'59 conversion by YM that cost about HALF of the dodgy 'Nile' Burst above... 😊
Mate a dead giveaway with those pickup rings is that you can see the original outline of the stock rings about 2mm outside of your M69s. This guitar is a metric import and someone's gone and stuck M69s on it, which are imperial and slightly smaller in size, so they don't quite cover the cavity entirely when they're used on metric guitars. Normally you can't actually see into the pickup cavity once the rings are on. But in your guitars case you can . Cant fake that cause the woods already gone.
Interesting comment.... Do you think it's likely to be have originally been a Jap copy then? A '70s Greco maybe? Or Antoria?
This is why I just won't buy a Vintage guitar. Only way I would is if I knew enough to authenticate myself. However I've been doing fine with my Custom shop pieces. I play my guitars constantly so maybe that's for the best. Kudos to you into doing the legwork to find out the truth about that guitar! Wow it fooled almost everyone except the die-hard guys.
Starting to agree with you. Buy a guitar for how GOOD it is.... not how OLD it is...!
The custom shop reissues sound great no doubt! Expensive but worth it.
The upper mid range on the older ones remain unmatched. I'm sure your custom shop pieces will mellow out through time and sound better and better! Always bring a pro with you if you are interested in vintage pieces.Best of luck!
@@whotendsthefire7234 Bring a pro???! That's not a bad idea you know... never thought of that..!
@@telegrampam lol! I've seen many people get ripped off!!!
That is why I said it. There's a lot of money fluctuating with these rare pieces. No reason to rip someone off And take advantage of them for big bucks. Have a great day.
@@whotendsthefire7234 People getting ripped off in the vintage guitar market SHOCK HORROR..?! Surely not LOL..! 😁
When you know (!) the front and back of the headstock look obviously refinished.
How can you tell? Not obvious to me LOL..! :-)
The dead giveaway for me was the serial, the lack of cherry fading in the back, and that shade of red is wrong too both on the burst and on the back
Good info! You lucked out in that the seller is refunding your money. All is well that ends well.
The baseball bat helped JP..... :-)
The vintage guitar world can be dodgy.
@@JP-jy7sk Tell me about it...! Have learnt my lesson....
Thanks indeed I learned so much from you, I “Tweeted” the link so a few others will get word and perhaps they too pass on the info.
On our channel perhaps for your interest there is a 10/2020 published vid regards to a 73’ LP Deluxe we had for sale.
I “liked” this video and checked out your channel and happily became a new subscriber too. Cheers and look forward to explore your other vids and lto future ones your a good man!
OK thanks GGG...! Funnily enough I used to have a '73 (or maybe '74.?) LP Deluxe actually in the Seventies.... It was horrible..!! Those mini-humbuckers just ain't got no bite....! 😀
@@telegrampam ha ha yeah story was one of Thin Lizzy was with manager to buy a new guitar & he first choose a Standard but manager obviously wanted save a lil money and he ended up with the Deluxe. It worked out though as was a good juxtaposition from other mans Standard. Yep, well it still rips though but yep most of course including me if can take pick will choose Standard over a Deluxe that’s a gimme, cheers
@@guitargeargarage1482 Yes, I seem to remember Scott Gorham playing a Deluxe and thinking "silly man..!" I suppose that cranked up to 11 through a Marshall though you could still probably get a half decent rock sound out of it..! 😁
Perhaps you`re right with this being an old Japanese model. Some of the old Greco or Tokai models were considered very close reproductions. This guitar has an old look which might be hard to authenticate. Perhaps a skilled person has taken one of these older Japan guitars and added some parts and finishing details. etc. Interesting case.. perhaps it is an original or maybe even that`s been replicated as well. Lucky you got $ back.!
My money's on it being either a '70s Tokai or Antoria, both of which were quality copies at the time...
The 'pawl' ( ? ) mark when the router either enters or exits the electric cavity is well known . I had a 1952 Les Paul and the fellow who was buying it took out his scewdrivers removed the plate ans this was what he looked for first .
The guys on the LP forum called it a 'chew'.... coz it looks like a bite mark..! Not so sure it's 'well known' though... I asked George Gruhn, owner of Gruhn Guitars in Nashville and well known authority on vintage guitars, about the 'chew' and he said he'd never heard of it..!! Not sure I believe him though..!!
www.amazon.co.uk/Gruhns-Guide-Vintage-Guitars-Identification/dp/087930944X/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Gruhn%27s+Guide+to+Vintage+Guitars&qid=1618882629&s=books&sr=1-1
@@telegrampam Of course George knows what this is .. If you want to visualise what this 'chew' mark looks like .. look at the Norman Foster aircraft museum roof at Duxford.. it is not a conic section or even a hyperbolic paraboloid ( the shape of a pringle) but Iam sure the 'chew' mark has a mathematical topological name .. I discovered it on the internet many years ago and it is very well known. One way of eliminating 1968 Les Paul bodies as being left over from 1956 Les Paul Standard as there is no 'chew' router entry/exit
it might be a hyperbola shape as I visualise my conic sections .. or even a parabola
@@deepindercheema4917 That's coz they changed the tooling when they re-introduced the Les Paul in 1969... No need to look at aircraft museum roofs to visualise a 'chew'... There are loads of pics on the LP forum. www.lespaulforum.com/forum/ Also, if George DID know what I meant by chew, he is a brilliant actor... Coz he had a totally straight face while I was asking. Most people in the know would have denied it but winked/smiled... :-)
I guess the fact that it was only £30,000 would have been the first red flag for me. As the old adage goes, if it looks too good to be true, it probably is…..
The red flag for me was the parts being replaced. It’s extremely rare, like seeing a unicorn rare, to find a 1950s sunburst Les Paul with everything changed out.
1950s Sunburst Les pauls have been worth a lot of money since the early 1980s. All the ones the were modded have without a doubt been restored to original given the 6 figure evaluation.
It DID make me wonder a little... I would have expected AT LEAST £50k given the value of the missing parts.... But the vendor's story about inheriting it from his Dutch uncle was very convincing (and he owns HUNDREDS of other guitars...)
@@wilson4180 Maybe... but unrestored ones DO still turn up....
@@wilson4180 they have been worth a lot since the early seventies.. 800 bucks in 72?
While you're here, anyone fancy a superb ES175 inspired archtop jazzer from Shanghai...? We've sold loads over the years and now have just ONE left.... Interested? They really are incredible value for money, at about a 1/10th of the price of the Gibbo version. And don't take our word for it though - check out our feedback about them on eBay here...😊 www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384176201787?hash=item5972afa03b:g:mQsAAOSwG5dgp8Il
So out of curiosity did you ever find out what this guitar actually is? And how does it player sound it certainly isn't worth 1960 money but it looks nice enough must be worth something
No, as discussed elsewhere (on numerous occasions..!) I'm still no closer to ever finding out how it started life... And as I no longer own it I don't really care. My guess though is it's early/mid 70s MIJ..
god, i feel sorry for you after reading all these comments.. the internet warriors all came out of their shell for this one. never seen so many "experts" in one videos comments! think the best was "i bet its a chibson". good god, theyve much to learn havent they! well done getting your refund and getting to the truth in the end. damn, it fooled a hell of a lot of people. hope youre enjoying your conversion! (which obviously nobody should have ever done!) lol. another good comment i read pmsl. enjoy mate, well done..
Yep, still no let up in the internet warrior comments LOL..! Fortunately my skin has grown a bit thicker now! 🙂
Why didnt the seller have it authenticated before selling? Thats been misrepresented.
Good question..! Because it was apparently 'inherited from his Uncle' he thought he didn't need to. But I should have done.... You live & learn..! :-)
That looks like a 1980 Greco to me. I have a 78 almost identical
Very possibly..!
I'm going to need to see that Ferrari of yours authenticated. :P
It's a fair cop Guv... I'll come quietly..... 😁
@@telegrampam :) in all seriousness, would love to see you do a "walk around" on your '53 les Paul conversion.
Really really enjoyed this video, I still think the top looks really great
I share your frustrations with the beauty of the burst book it doesn’t really tell you anything useful.
I did think by now that all the genuine ones were well accounted for and any old guitar that’s got a bit that looks like it might have come of a burst has been long stripped.
This whole vintage thing has become a total liability and most of my old ones are long gone.
Did anyone suss out whether the body and neck were handmade copies or the bones of another old guitar?
Thanks so much for your comment. I agree, the top looks great, as does the whole guitar... That Beauty of Burst book is hopeless as a reference book... it has dozens of pages of pretty pictures but about 2 or 3 only of actual information about the guitars.... Very disappointing.
And you're right about genuine ones being accounted for (like Stradivari). With only about 1400 ever made, it's not difficult to track them all down. I was very naive to think I had 'discovered' one...
And yes, the vintage market has become a joke... £300k for a guitar? Come off it..?!! I now have a '53 - '59 conversion which is great - it was originally made out of the same wood, by the same people, in the same factory, using the same tooling, as the later 'Bursts. Yet my '53 conversion, which now has a beautiful tiger maple finish, a PAF at the bridge and early '60s PAT at the neck, cost approx a 1/20th of that..... Crazy.
Finally, the CURRENT owner contacted me recently (!) wanting to know if I had a formal report about the guitar from an 'expert'. I said I hadn't and his attitude was that it could STILL then be a 'Burst'... The words 'head' and 'sand' come to mind.....
@@telegrampam It was you who posted to the burst tone seekers page asking about ‘the new owner’ not me who requested to speak with you. Additionally, I didn’t contact you asking for a detailed report, that subject came up when you decided to tell me about the involvement with Phil Harris, which I already knew about. I explained at the time why I bought this guitar and that I also have little interest in what other people’s opinions on it are. As I understand it you had the guitar for 2 years and still received your money back when you decided you didn’t like it. That’s a great outcome for you. I’m happy with it and it’s not being sold again. I requested at the time this guitar was no longer discussed, yet here we are with you suggesting I have my head in sand. Perhaps it’s time you resolved whatever issues you have regarding this guitar which I have had possession of in the past and do again now.
@@thekrakken6768 Little interest in what other what..?? Who are you anyway? Are you the new owner/mug/victim?
@@thekrakken6768 Interesting comments. I hope you were able to acquire this guitar (again) at a price better matched with its true provenance. If there's one thing I've learned - the hard way - is that absolutely nothing these days can be taken for granted, especially on CZcams. One thing that hasn't changed, however, is the way in which character tends to eventually reveal itself. It's the one thing that is difficult to fake. Anyway, thank you for providing another side - more information is always better than less.
When you were looking at the serial number, the back of the neck near the headstock made me suspicious.
✌️🤪🎸🎶🎵🎶🎵🎶
In what way?
Something in the shape just didn’t feel right, looking at it anyway. I’ve owned as many as 6 Les Pauls at the same time (I’m crazy that way) and probably 10-12 of them over the years, plus many Gibsons from vintage to Custom Shops. You know, sometimes you look at something (and that’s beyond guitars) and you get an odd feeling.
@@marions.120 The necks on old Gibsons are very different to those on newer ones.. Can't really compare them...
@@telegrampam - I’ve played a number of “old” ones, vintage ones.
Wow Im glad It worked out for You ,Its Easy too fall for the Hype ,With Every man and His Dog on here Hyping these things Up ,Love your Standard Tho Sick with that and Bye your self a holiday House LOL
Thank you..!
You're the only other person I've ever seen that has ridged fingernails like mine. I wonder what causes that? Some of the prices you quoted for vintage parts are way out of line. $10,000 for for the switch surround? There are vintage parts sellers in the USA on Ebay and Reverb who have those parts for way cheaper than you quoted. You have to shop around. Your bridge is probably a Patent, on the bottom side it will say Patent and some numbers. Those are from '65. The originals up to '62 or so say "Gibson ABR1" then have a foundry shield mark. The saddles were brass but nickel plated, and are not sharp pointed like the Patent saddles are. Good video, thanks.
LOL..! Probably because I STILL bite my nails..! The prices I quoted were estimates given to me by Gruhn Guitars in Nashville, a fairly authoritative source. I think it was only $5k for the switch surround (a bargain LOL..!). But if it transforms a non-original Burst from a $50k guitar to an original one valued at $300k then surely it IS a bargain... And yes, I only recently found out about the ABR1 saddles - it did however have a shield marking underneath. Thanks for your feedback!
Joe Bonamassa is the expert on these Gibsons.
He is indeed.... in fact he's the 'famous rock star' i mentioned in the video. I had a good online chat with him on the LP forum about the guitar...
I once asked Tom Wittrock about whether he had ever seen an "authentic" looking chew mark on a fake Burst. His answer was yes, however, I have yet to see this in any documented fake. Each chew mark is unique, almost like a fingerprint on a guitar. The other thing that would have dissuaded me from buying the fake in this video is the exaggerated widow's peak in the control cavity. Way too overt.
Next time you visit any pawn shop in the states, carry around a black light to evaluate any vintage guitar. When you see a white pickup ring that glows, hide your enthusiasm and haggle with the dealer. The ring could still be a fake, but it could also be genuine. As Zapper states, the M69 rings are worth their weight in gold.
Remember in the video i mentioned that "a couple of experts had emailed me with a report that the guitar was a genuine Burst"? Tom Wittrock was one of them...... The other works for George Gruhn in Nashville. So do you now see why i was initially convinced it was real...?!🤔 Anyway, the sheer weight of opinion against it being genuine convinced me it wasn't.... including a telephone chat with Gary Winterflood, possibly the best authority on Bursts in the UK (I've actually played a couple of his....!). The chew mark would be VERY easy to replicate in my opinion.... in fact i was tempted to take a wood rasp to the cavity myself LOL...! The 'widows peak' though was mentioned by a number of people on the forum so you're right in that it should have been a giveaway... 😀
And 'black light' appraisals? Having seen a couple of my brand new Chinese guitars light up like Christmas trees under UV light, I now have no faith in it as a means of authentication... Apparently anything will glow if you leave it out in the sun for a couple of hours... (including the bald patch on my head LOL...!) 😂
17:00 Seventeen minutes later your world turned upside down!
LOL..! Yeah, sorry about that. I have some friends in Australia so it's for their benefit really.... 😂
@@telegrampam hahaha, just ribbing you. Very informative video. When I heard the prices you were talking about I was astounded. I'm glad you got the refund and also glad you didn't reveal the trade secret so the bootleggers didn't the heads-up.
@@loudmouthnewyorker2803 I imagine they already know them.... 😊
Vintage guys are nuts... 20k for pieces of plastic? 🙃
Yep... crazy eh..?!
1k for a toggle switch tip (made from catalin)
@@napoleondynamite8564 Even crazier..!!
Because if you can replace replaced pieces with originals of the correct vintage you increase the value. Imagine the difference between 10k burst non- original and 200k one.
i have a new old stock pickguard.. youd have to twist my arm at 15k
Fantastic looking guitar though. Is it a gibson or the whole thing is fake?
About 90% fake..!
"the forgers" already have all the info they need lol, they don't bother to get the details right because it's too much work.
Good point... presumably all they have to do is lay their hands on an original Burst and get copying...
I’m wondering if the person you purchased this from had the initials GA?
Well it's either a fake or a late 1978-1985 models custom shop Norlin reissue. The fade on it seems to me to be Norlin era, cause that's when they did the fade I am not a fan of because it seemed cheap. I've seen many guitars with this finish. Did you ever verify the serial number? And Norlin era was through the 70s until 1986
No, the serial number does not turn up on any of the checker sites. And I doubt it was from the late '70s/early '80s - why change the pots to some from the early '70s..?! Still, I doubt we'll ever know. Certainly wouldn't surprise me if it WAS a real Gibson/re-issue... Like I said it played beautifully... 😊
30,000 for a 1960 burst?? that should be a red flag straight away??
Not if only 50% of it IS a Burst lol...!
So is it a HONDO ? ? ?
Very unlikely... they were pretty cheap & cheerful as i remember... My money's on a Tokai..
It’s like triggers brush…
Not quite... at least that started off as 'original'...! 😊
The finish to me does not look right- the serial number is too dark. I had two sunbursts-sold one in 1989 and the other in 1990. That was regrettable. I do think that some of the new re-issues are better than what I had- the Wildwood spec Murphy aged 1960 re-issue is a better Les Paul than any of the old ones I owned or played, but that's just my opinion. The playability , neck shape and intonation are all improved. Still, not a rare old guitar though.
In what way does the 'finish not look right' to you..? Surely you don't think it would be anything like your '89 or '90 models, both nearly THIRTY years newer LOL..?!!
@@telegrampam It could just be the way it appeared in the video- it looked too opaque and didn't have that nice translucent 'dark cherry' color that one expects. It looks very much like my "Chibson" that I got last year.
@@paulsadoff3661 That's coz it's NOT 'dark cherry'... but more of a cherry sunburst. Explains it then... Also, this guitar (whatever it is...) is just slightly better than a 'Chibson'..! 😁
Did you figure out exactly what it is? Was this a reworked tokai or something?
No... never did find out.. I suspect that the vendor, elitevintageguitars.com/, know though.....
@@telegrampam Hope they have you a refund. Sorry to hear that. Still a nice looking guitar though.
@@jerrymorganjr Yeah, refunded in full..
Interesting. Was just wondering who can afford to buy a guitar for £30K then I saw the red Ferrari in the background at the end of the video!😏
That's fake too LOL...! ;-)
better yet.. who can afford a ferrari and not pony up for an original burst??
@@gregwilson2721 Not me.... an original Burst is 4 times the price of my F430... I ain't no Jeff Bezos..! 😁
Motion Sickness camera work
Lightweight LOL..!
Your 90s les paul is later model like possibly a 1997-1999.. the early 1990s had a weird shaped S on the Gibson logo like my 1990 standard very much like the 70s and 80s logo which would've been more inaccurate to compare the replica 60' so your lucky you had a later 90 logo to compare to lol... ive dated your authentic les paul number 280 production. 29th jan, 1998 beautiful guitar👍🤘
The serial number dates it at 1996.
@@telegrampam ahh i must've read it wrong hard to see if it was a 6 or a 8 in the serial number i guess haha. still lovely guitar those 90s standards. still same principle with the headstock logo...
@@eathanstraker2691 Yes, the 5th digit DOES look a bit like an 8, especially in the video..! Superb guitar though, can't understand why people thought the quality had gone down in the 1990s...
@@telegrampam i think from the wacky colours on the back and sides and pancake bodys and 3 piece bodys and weird wide pointy headstocks from the 70s - 80s i prefer 90s les pauls they are heavy well mine is haha but its a turning point to the right direction i would say the 90s was kinda a "Good Wood Era" for gibson imo... everyone has their own opinion but i know guys who only touch 70s opposed to anything apart from reissue's lol "they can keep em" ill stick with the 90s les pauls standards/Classic's
@@eathanstraker2691 I have a '74 Standard too (since about 1982..) and would NEVER sell it... It's awesome..! 😊
Don’t compare a suspect vintage Gibson with a production standard. In addition, don’t even compare to a R0 reissue. They are even not the same. Also black light tells a lot on the finish and plastics.
Oh sorry about that... I'll dig out all my genuine vintage Bursts instead next time... 😂
The pick guard looks wrong. The screw should be excessively counter sunk
Interesting... I'll add it to the list of differences LOL..!
@@telegrampam yeah, I am becoming a Les Paul geek at 60 years old. I watched a LP verification inspection. Just a little clue I learned. Ive been posting a lot, Im a player, and I developed a magnetic acrylic pick.SVPick.com. lol, its not a huge project, but I use it. Its a custom thing for sure, but it keeps my expensive picks in order. sorry to throw that at you.
A lot of guitars in that book are clones.
How do you know?
Hard to tell from the video but the carve looks much too shallow as well.
sorry about the guitar, are you Australia 🙃
LOL..! Yeah, never was any good at camerawork!
It seems that,there must be many counterfeit late 50s 1960, les Paul’s in circulation around the world? They only made so many, and the numbers weren’t large, yet every half successful rock guitarist says they own one? Then all the millionaires and billionaires who can’t play guitar, but have huge collections, all seem to have obtained the most rarest pristine examples of these guitars?
Yep, just like with Picassos and Van Goghs there are some very good fakes out there....
rough guesses say there were 1700 of them, many do wind up with pro's and rich dudes, theres quite a few to go around at the moment. its not like a penguin where there were only 90 or whatever.
The gap between the bridge and the bridge pickup looks too big
So you can’t tell by playing it ? HMMM
And can’t tell by listening to it ? hmmm .
And half the experts say it’s real and it is actually not.
Hmmm
ONLY THE BRAVE .
And you CAN..??! Yeah right....
I would of spotted that serial number straight away..
I would HAVE spotted your poor grammar straight away...
@@telegrampam better to have poor grammar than poor eye sight!
@@mrabrasive51 I can buy some glasses... Can you buy a new brain..?! 😂
@@telegrampam i hear the British ones go pretty cheap!..🤪
When he opened the case I thought it was a clownburst and not authentic.
What's a clownburst?
Perhaps you should’ve consulted with Joe Bonamassa before making this purchase ?but I’m glad you got your dough back . Forgers ....bollocks !
LOL......... yeah coz of course me & Joe go way back...! Maybe next time! 😀
So what is your fake? A Chibson?
Chibson LOL...! Keep up there lad..! 😉
Latest thoughts are that it was probably originally a '70s Greco which were apparently very good reproductions...
Ah can tell something wrong with the colour and finish right away.Should be more UV damage.
in 1960 they changed the dye one the Sunburst and the red didn't fade anymore like the '58's and '59's did. They are called clownbursts or tomatosoup bursts because of the orange hue.
In what way does the 'colour and finish' look wrong to you? Looks very similar to the '60s Standards in the 'Beauty of the Burst' book....
Probably a Chibson
Yeah right... Probably LOL...! 😂 So what exactly makes you think that then..??!
@@telegrampam but how can you prove it isnt,? far east is now flooding market, Caveat Emptor.
look at the fake luxury watch market u tube has v many comparison videos
@@delboyoelmundo4718 Did you actually watch the video LOL..?!
@@telegrampam yup
@@delboyoelmundo4718 You mean 'nope'.... Mate I make a living out of importing Chinese guitars, and have done for the last 10 years.... Do you think I might know a Chinese guitar (good quality that they are these days..) from a real Gibbo??! Think about it... for 10 seconds or so.
I think self-education on these is good, but when buying, I would always get an expert involved... Care to share who sold it?
elitevintageguitars.com/
I noticed tonight that they've got another "vintage" Les Paul for sale... A '53 Gold Top... I wonder how fake that one is LOL...!
elitevintageguitars.com/gibson-models/les-paul-models/gibson-les-paul-standard-1953/
the color is way off right out of the gate
In what way?
Looks VERY similar to some of the 1960 LPs in the 'Beauty of the Burst 'book...
@@telegrampam to my eye the hue of the red is off and same with the yellow
@@gregwilson2721 You need a new eye....
I think you're nitpicking that old Les Paul too much. It's old, and the pickups and controls were replaced in the 1970's. What a surprise. Capacitors don't last forever you know. You seem to expect every Les Paul to match perfectly as if they were proof minted coins. Gibson quality is very good but not that good. That old sunburst needs work but I still think it's worth more money than any rational person should spend on a guitar.
You saying you think it's a real Burst then??! The pickups and controls are more likely to have been 'placed' in the guitar in the 70s rather than REplaced....
@@telegrampam I'm not a guitar expert but I am familiar with old Gibson and Fender guitars because I dated a bass player 40 years ago. Her brother was a guitar freak. Those guitars were prized even back then for their quality wood which they said gave them more "resonance and sustain". Over time rock changed as you know so a lot of those axes got new guts in the 70's and 80's. I remember when a nice Strat or Les Paul ran $600 - $800. Ah, the good old days, and yes, I think that Sunburst is real. It may be a Frankenstein guitar made from parts. That would explain the knobs from 3 model years but who cares if it is? And I don't think it's a Japanese copy because it looks a little too old for that. The real test is to play it side by side against a copy. The real thing sounds better.
@@wsbill14224 Hey William, wanna buy a real Burst then..? Just needs a little bit of work... Yours for say $100,000? 😉
@@telegrampam Ha ha! To me no guitar is worth more than $10k unless it belonged to Jimi Hendrix!
@@wsbill14224 I'll give you $11k for Jimi Hendrix's guitar if you ever end up with it...
It is a Fake! First, the lead pickup is a del marzio not a PAF! The Capacitors are non original! I owned two 1960 Sunburst LPs and worked for Gatton. Third, a 60 Sunburst with that low of a serial number did not have reflector knobs, that came later in the production year.
No shit Sherlock LOL..! That's the whole point of the video.. 😁
What did you pay for the Fake! Or, are you ashamed to say! Sorry that you got taken. Normally this happens with Fenders. There have been some really good fakes here in the States and lawsuits were filed. . I knew a guy who bot a fake Sunburst in 1977. That guitar had a 3 piece top and you could still see the the sanding marks from the refinish job. . He was very very sorry.
@@denAlexVA Have you even watched the video..??! It's about the first thing I said..! AND that I got a full refund.... Play attention 007..!
I don't know but why even take a chance trying to buy something that old. I mean unless it came from a family member or was handed down, you're taking a hell of a risk with a guitar like that. For all the money you'd have to put into it, you could buy a beautiful Gibson Custom Reliced Guitar and know you got the real deal. Not only that, but some of those really old guitars are kind of like old cars. You can spend money to fix them up but they're only going to run about as good as they did when they were made (and won't run anywhere near as nice as the newer ones). I think guitars are the same way. To sit there having to agonize over every detail, that should be a huge Red Flag right there that you're taking a big risk and wasting a lot of time on something you have no idea where it came from. Like I said, I'd be different if it was handed down from someone in your family and you knww we're originated from. That just seems like such a waste of time to have to talk to all those different people and you're still not sure what you have. Not only that but the case looks shot too. The thing looks like it's been driven over by a truck a few times.
You kidding? Given the quality of Gibsons these days..?! And NEVER cross a road... you'll be taking a 'hell of a risk'... 😁
@@telegrampam
Trust me, I've taken more risks in my life than most people will take in 10 lifetimes. I'm just saying if you have to talk to all of these different people to find out if something is authentic or not, well you got a lot more time on your hands than I do.
@@lamontprospect9974 Like what? You bought a second-hand moped without checking the spark plug first..?! Or ate a whole pack of chocolate hobnobs at least a whole week past its sell-by date...?! Yeah, I bet you really live it up..! 😂 And yes thank you, having retired from The City and paid off my mortgage i have plenty of time on my hands.... generally in the garden with a radio and cold beer.... and i love it..! 😊
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it could be a duck unless your investing for a profit or starting a exhibit its a duck
Quack......
Wow, so you bought a 30 000 BP guitar and thinking you were experted enough just by reading a book. That's very courageous...
Jeeeeez..did you actually listen to what I was saying in the video...? I said "after reading many books LIKE the Beauty of the Burst book", and watching ALL the authentication videos on youtube... Like this excellent one... czcams.com/video/SF4RRz7mzLQ/video.html . In fact can you actually understanden zee Englisher lingo ja ja Mein Herr..??! Or are you not "experted" enough LOL..?! 😂🤣
You can keep Gibson I'm more into Epiphones
LOL... Good luck with them then....! 😁
@@telegrampam hey here's a little reality for ya...first off Les Paul worked on his solid body guitar AKA the Log in the Epiphone factory not Gibson Epiphone facility in China is American run and operated American luthiers and supervisors on site Scott Lewis is Master builder and plant supervisor Lewis was also Master builder for Gibson and the American luthiers that are there also were with Gibson directly also Epiphones are 70% hand crafted the very same as Gibson.. Epiphones history Smokes Gibson oh Gibson did not invent the open book headstock or the Les Paul body style and Les Paul himself was directly involved with Epiphone from 1940 until his death in 2009 I could go on and on
@@jayrichardson5811 Whatever mate... can't be arsed...
@@telegrampam it's not what ever dude it's all facts not some empty bullshit opinion and I didn't even scratch the surface....what people should start doing is research before they say anything it could stop you from really looking Stupid in the end
Mate,stick with Sportcars...
You kidding..??! They cost a hell of a lot more to maintain than a guitar (not that you'd know clearly....)
Strativarius Guitars Great comeback.
Even the shape of the case is wrong! Not a Les Paul case.
No it's a period correct narrow waist California girl case. There are several variants in shape.
@@c.p.1589 Agreed C.P.... that's one of the few things the forum experts agreed on. It IS a Cali girl case... (worth 3 or 4 grand on it's own...!) 😁
Don't matter how much money ya' got it's a stupid purchase. No guitar is worth anything near that. None!
I kind of agree.....but if this guy is a multi millionaire 30k is like the rest of us buying a 1000 quid guitar...of course if we lived in a fair world the 800 quid I'd pay for a guitar and the 30k this guy can afford would be far better spent helping the poor ...but we don't live in a fair world....personally old vintage guitars are over rated....I once in the 80s played a 54 strat side by side with a tokai copy my dad's mate had and the tokai was the better guitar...he eventually sold the 50s strat to a guy who was a landlord who collected guitars and still owns the tokai....which incidentally has after 30 years playing taken on the vintage hue...lol
You ever heard of the word 'investment'..? No, thought not... Something is worth as much as someone else is willing to pay for it.. A pristine '59 recently went for nearly $1m in the US recently.... I bet the original owner of that guitar didn't think it was such a 'stupid purchase'...
@@paulcartwright2810 I'm FAR from being a multi-millionaire.... I've just worked hard and saved up for a long time to buy some decent guitars... You're right about SOME old guitars though... my '83 JV Squier knocked spots off my '62 Fiesta Red Strat, both in terms of sound and playability... But then I came across a '64 L Series... which blew away the JV..! All depends on the individual guitar.....
True...a great guitar is a great guitar...regardless of age...older played in guitars do have a cool vibe though...I've got a old early 80s ibanez roadster and a USA 80s b c rich gunslinger (think 1 pickup Eddie van Halen vibe)...and whilst not quite in the same league as super desirable fenders and gibsons kudos wise..but even so all the years of playing certainly make a difference compared to my newer guitars ...the b c rich particularly has a unfinished oiled quartersawn maple neck to die for...most people who are negative about players buying vintage guitars is envy...I don't own any vintage guitars as such but I enjoy people like yourself who show them on CZcams and it makes me enjoy my modern equivalent...actually I did own a 50s les Paul junior single cut in the late 80s...with a old top boost ac30...but I didn't appreciate what I had at the time lol...I now own the modern equivalent reissues...but I cannot remember if the old junior was better or not...it probably was ...lol...I prefer les Paul junior to the les Paul standards to be fair..them and strats ...put some videos of the other guitars you got off the les Paul guy..
@@paulcartwright2810 Very true... a great guitar is a great guitar.... irrespective of its age or the decal on it's headstock... Two of my favourite guitars are an '83 JV Squier and a '90s Washburn N2.... Both cost me about 150 quid and both are awesome..!! (shame you can't post pics on here, otherwise I would..!) 😊
Smells of vomit? Why buy it then?
That’s because a fool and his money are soon parted! You knew that £30,000 was too cheep!!! You deserve what you got. The greedy always gets taken !
Fools can't spell either.... I'm not a bird you know..! 😂
Too much money and too much time on yer hands mate.
Give the 30 grand to your local dogs home or hospice instead.
... and then buy an Epiphone for 500 quid.
WHo the f*ck are you to tell me what i can and can't do with my money..?! I worked very hard for it so I can spend it as i like... As it happens, I bought an amazing 53/59 Conversion after this one and i get a lot of pleasure from it.... So do one creep!
And 500 quid for an Epi??! They must see gullible dickheads like you coming all the time then.... I have a fabulous Epi 335 that cost me £200, and an equally good Epi SG Special that was £100..!! 500 quid my arse..!
Boomers and their Gibsons, what a joke!
Wot? Don't understand you.. What do you mean?
I'm 1 minute 9 seconds in and the first red flag is.. It's heavy..
Yeah, that caught me by surprise as well. ✌️🤪🎸🎶🎵🎶🎵
Why? My '53 is even heavier..!
@@telegrampam -Yeah, I played a ‘52 and it felt pretty heavy?
@@telegrampam most burst are know for being fairly light. Most people think that a good Les Paul should be heavy but that's bs. The best ones are well under 4 kilogram.
@@marions.120 They are Marion... solid Brazilian mahogany IS heavy..! Which is why Gibson changed over to the SG design in 1960....